Wyoming Guides can No Longer Scout for Outfitters???

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^^^^ It all makes sense now

founder/mtguide let’s hear the story of the 226 buck!
 
txhunter58 said:
That’s the beauty. 1000 from Wy, 1000 from Utah, 1000 from.....

But as far as the other, I can only speak for myself. I used a consulting service in 2003. I have told exactly zero people, and have never been back to that spot
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Did you purchase that information while wearing your hunting jeans? Or was the hunting gene so strong you couldn't help it?
 
jm77 said:
Tell us please, how many of us "hate" Founder? I don't.

Personally, I don't like what he does, but like him I worked hard for all my big mule deer without an outfitter or paying someone to tell me where they took pictures of a particular buck.

Get off your stupid "hate" routine, everyone has an opinion and most don't have to write a book to give it.
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Don't even know who you are, nor do I care how you kill your bucks. Nor do I care how long you think a post should be. Kind of a funny comment coming from a guy who owns every third post on this thread. I never said you hate Founder, so don't get your panties in a wad.

I do know plenty of Wyomingites that do hate him though and they all spout the same crap about it not being ethical all while they book their guided hunts. I've even heard it from a guide that works in Wyoming. It's all the same damn thing!

If you don't like that he doesn't have to pay fees that guides pay, that's one thing. It makes sense. But if you don't like that he is giving away the position of animals, you should be fighting just as hard to rid Wyoming of guides. They do the same job except for worse. They make it possible for completely incompetent people to harvest animals. Founder's packages never did that. Fight them both, or don't fight it at all. If you only step halfway in you're a hypocrite plain and simple.
 
txhunter58 said:
So, where Founder would tell 1 person about a spot, you will tell 1000s. His person is not likely to hunt that spot again for years, if ever. And you will tell us all, so that many will be hunting it annually. But since it won't hurt your hunting, not a problem with you. You will really show him! Be sure to put your name on the ad, like he does. I am sure many will want to show their appreciation
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Haha. Yea THOUSANDS upon thousands!! Come one come all!! Jesus man, you need to find something to do down there in ol Texas...fyi.. this is the internet and far from the real world
 
I am bored this morning so...I decided to read this thread and apply a little thought. I don’t understand the acidic responses to founders questions.

I can’t count the number of times a MM member (many times new members) have sent me a PM asking for unit specific information based on my previous posts. Most of the time I have responded with helpful information. I had a MM member reach out to me this morning. I gave him detailed information about a LE elk unit. Guides get paid a lot for the information that we freely pass onto each other on this site. I understand the guides wanting to stop the information sharing. I also see a lot of hunters getting mad that “their” spot is being talked about on the web. C’est la vie, I would bet most of us have had a “hunting buddy” share our honey hole information with another. I figure that’s part of life and part of hunting.

The premise of a hunting web site is talking and interacting with like minded people. I believe an inherent part of the interaction is sharing Information.

Now to the question at hand...Is is worse that Founder openly “sells” information about what he has seen or places he has hunted. I would be willing to bet he gets PMs on a regular basis asking for the same info. If I take a new “hunting buddy” to my soon to be not-so-secret spot and they buy my gas and a meal is that now illegal? What if I have an archery tag in Utah, see a bunch of big bulls, and meet with the rifle tag hunter. We exchange info and he supplies me good beer and food to keep the info flowing. Have I sold the info or a “scouting package”?

So that I am completely clear...I will sell my scouting package (specific locations to include GPS spots) for a fee ( a few good stories and good beer around a camp fire).

To me, this is a group of people, outfitters, getting upset that their services are not needed and they are operating an archaic business model. In an effort to save their bottom line, they are attempting to regulate something that can’t and shouldn’t be regulated. This is very reminiscent of the Wyoming wilderness law. I lived in Wyoming for several years and hunted wilderness. Shocker...I made,it out OK and managed a few great anaimals. Now that I don’t live thee anymore it it too dangerous? In this instance, if Founder worked for them and they could up-sell this information everything would be OK.
 
Utah400Elk said:
I am bored this morning so...I decided to read this thread and apply a little thought. I don’t understand the acidic responses to founders questions.

I can’t count the number of times a MM member (many times new members) have sent me a PM asking for unit specific information based on my previous posts. Most of the time I have responded with helpful information. I had a MM member reach out to me this morning. I gave him detailed information about a LE elk unit. Guides get paid a lot for the information that we freely pass onto each other on this site. I understand the guides wanting to stop the information sharing. I also see a lot of hunters getting mad that “their” spot is being talked about on the web. C’est la vie, I would bet most of us have had a “hunting buddy” share our honey hole information with another. I figure that’s part of life and part of hunting.

The premise of a hunting web site is talking and interacting with like minded people. I believe an inherent part of the interaction is sharing Information.

Now to the question at hand...Is is worse that Founder openly “sells” information about what he has seen or places he has hunted. I would be willing to bet he gets PMs on a regular basis asking for the same info. If I take a new “hunting buddy” to my soon to be not-so-secret spot and they buy my gas and a meal is that now illegal? What if I have an archery tag in Utah, see a bunch of big bulls, and meet with the rifle tag hunter. We exchange info and he supplies me good beer and food to keep the info flowing. Have I sold the info or a “scouting package”?

So that I am completely clear...I will sell my scouting package (specific locations to include GPS spots) for a fee ( a few good stories and good beer around a camp fire).

To me, this is a group of people, outfitters, getting upset that their services are not needed and they are operating an archaic business model. In an effort to save their bottom line, they are attempting to regulate something that can’t and shouldn’t be regulated. This is very reminiscent of the Wyoming wilderness law. I lived in Wyoming for several years and hunted wilderness. Shocker...I made,it out OK and managed a few great anaimals. Now that I don’t live thee anymore it it too dangerous? In this instance, if Founder worked for them and they could up-sell this information everything would be OK.
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What about the next step. Which outfitters are doing now.

For a fee, are you good with a service camping on and sending real time GPS locations?

Or, how about GPS tagging?(high fence units to it)

Or. GPS painting of animals for LR shooters?

I'm not saying Founder is doing any of that. But his completion will.

I don't see why drone scouting is illegal, but a dude on a mtn with a sat phone and good gps isn't.

We already saw the APP that went one step past founder.

We see these little steps every year, until we have

Thermal scopes, extreme LR, real time trail cams, etc.

You sitting in a bar talking about deer you saw in "big valley", and a GPS with 1"accuracy are a little different
 
Slightlysober said:
^^^^ It all makes sense now

founder/mtguide let’s hear the story of the 226 buck!
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An area founder has sold to his "clients" before, held a giant buck. he scouted the area and even put video of that bucks summer partner up on the site here that year, but ol founder didnt scout well enough and had no idea a giant existed in there. Luckily the mountains chose the better person to know of the big buck and a friend of mine who had 2 years of history with the buck was able to seal the deal with his bow that fall.
 
Too bad Founder doesn’t scout and hunt Simply because he loves it, like most hunters do. Instead he has to try to find loopholes to pimp out big deer to put money in his pocket. Pretty sad. **** I could of made great money last year selling big buck GPS in G. But the knowledge I’ve gained, and the spots I’ve learned are way more important.
it is sad what hunting has turned into. But you can’t stop greed.
 
one_dryboot said:
Too bad Founder doesn’t scout and hunt Simply because he loves it, like most hunters do. Instead he has to try to find loopholes to pimp out big deer to put money in his pocket. Pretty sad. **** I could of made great money last year selling big buck GPS in G. But the knowledge I’ve gained, and the spots I’ve learned are way more important.
it is sad what hunting has turned into. But you can’t stop greed.
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He wants to hunt Wyoming every year on his own but he can’t do it without a point share buddy.
That’s what this is all about.
And he also wants to make a little money to cover his expenses.
I’m not saying I agree or disagree with what he’s doing but I’m pretty sure that’s what his motives are.
 
Hoss, you are the whiniest person on this site. It's rather pathetic. I swear, hunting brings out the worst assholes in any hobby that I am involved with.
 
I
grosventrehunter said:
Tracker, hire a guide and go the legal route. Here is a novel idea. Drive out a few days early and scout a before the opener. If it's too much of a burden and you feel you can't have a great hunt without paying someone then I'm sure you could hunt closer to home.
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Well I don't need a guide to hunt out west. I have hunted every western state except MT and been doing it since the early eighties with plenty of success. And will be doing it again this year on my CO Unit 66 3rd season deer hunt. The comment was not referring to my needs. How is that for a novel thought
 
dack77 said:
Hoss, you are the whiniest person on this site. It's rather pathetic. I swear, hunting brings out the worst assholes in any hobby that I am involved with.
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You either stand for something or you fall for everything
 
Founder said:
The question is still the same, if a guide is getting paid by an outfitter to scout an area and then reports what he's found and where so that the outfitter can pass that information onto other guides taking hunters out, did the guide just sell a geographic location to the outfitter?

Should one assume that a licensed guide is exempt from the rule? Even though the rule doesn’t point that out? How is one to know who is or isn’t exempt from the rule?

I’m talking with G&F officer in hopes of a complete understanding of who the rule does or doesn’t apply to. The rule says what it says.

New rule in Wyoming, "No person shall sell or barter any geographic location information for any big game animal, trophy game animal or wild bison to aid in the taking of any big game animal, trophy game animal or wild bison."
The legal statute calls for prohibiting, "The selling of wildlife geographic locations."

“No person”. Who does or doesn’t count as a person?
“Selling”. Does being paid by paycheck constitute selling? Or does only other sorts of checks count as selling?
I just want to know the facts. Like everyone, I can guess, but laws usually aren’t geared around taking a good guess and hope you’re right.
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Founder,

Is it really that hard to understand the difference between a guide scouting for an outfitter and what you are doing? I used to guide and I was paid for it. Part of my job was to scout, and yes I did report what I found to my boss, but I wasn't selling him locations. I was doing my job of finding big animals. My boss was a licensed outfitter legally allowed to sell his services and part of that was knowing where to find big deer and/or elk. That is very very different from a guy that wants to find big deer and sell them for profit without being licensed and without having legal permission to do so.

Yes outfitters do in a way sell locations to big animals. But it is in a completely different way than what you have been doing. I think it's time you face the facts that almost everyone thinks what you have been doing is bullcrap and would like to see it come to an end. What you do actually hurts our industry and the average joe hunter. And we don't feel bad that you can't do it anymore. We'd also love to see you put in for a few years without getting drawn and have to wait a while to hunt. Would be nice to see you deal with actual human experiences from time to time. We don't all live in fairytale land and get to hunt for a living. That's why you aren't getting any sympathy here. You made your bed, (bed bugs and all) now you're gonna have to sleep in it.
 
money said:
Founder,

Is it really that hard to understand the difference between a guide scouting for an outfitter and what you are doing? I used to guide and I was paid for it. Part of my job was to scout, and yes I did report what I found to my boss, but I wasn't selling him locations. I was doing my job of finding big animals. My boss was a licensed outfitter legally allowed to sell his services and part of that was knowing where to find big deer and/or elk. That is very very different from a guy that wants to find big deer and sell them for profit without being licensed and without having legal permission to do so.

Yes outfitters do in a way sell locations to big animals. But it is in a completely different way than what you have been doing. I think it's time you face the facts that almost everyone thinks what you have been doing is bullcrap and would like to see it come to an end. What you do actually hurts our industry and the average joe hunter. And we don't feel bad that you can't do it anymore. We'd also love to see you put in for a few years without getting drawn and have to wait a while to hunt. Would be nice to see you deal with actual human experiences from time to time. We don't all live in fairytale land and get to hunt for a living. That's why you aren't getting any sympathy here. You made your bed, (bed bugs and all) now you're gonna have to sleep in it.
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As far as your "legal permission" comment, that's totally wrong. I've never been charged with anything or even questioned in 4 years of providing intel. I'm fine with opinion, but lies aren't cool.

I'm still waiting on a response from the G&F. For now however, I wouldn't dare be giving an outfitter locations of deer I find regardless of how they pay me. The rule as written is just like the flying rule and there are no exceptions on that one.

As for providing a service to DIY hunters, I provide no geographic location information for any game, just the information for hunting an area that I think is one of the "Best of the Best". The information is extremely valuable and every person I've ever helped has been very happy.

I understand some don't like it, but I'm fine with that. I offer a good service and will continue to do so as best I can. And will continue living in fairytale land as long as I can as well.

Hunt Consulting, Scouting and Coaching -- MonsterMuleys.com

Mule Deer Hunting, Elk Hunting and Western Big Game Hunting. Forums, Articles, Photos, Tips, Information. Guides, Outfitters, Hunts, Tags.
www.monstermuleys.com www.monstermuleys.com
 
So, if you're on the up and up and feel good about it, why do you delete other posts that bring the subject up? Honest question
 
Alwayshunting said:
So, if you're on the up and up and feel good about it, why do you delete other posts that bring the subject up? Honest question
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I haven't deleted anything. If I were going to delete stuff, do you really think this thread would be here. Come on.
 
Founder has some thick skin that’s for sure. Hope you get a region G tag this year.
 
Alwayshunting said:
You or a moderator deleted hossblur thread about it
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I found that a thread was deleted on Saturday. I trust it was removed for good reason. I can guarantee you though, hossburr does not have secret insight that threatens me.
Just because I allow all opinion to be shared on the site does not mean all rules and order are tossed out the window to do so.
 
Founder said:
I found that a thread was deleted on Saturday. I trust it was removed for good reason. I can guarantee you though, hossburr does not have secret insight that threatens me.
Just because I allow all opinion to be shared on the site does not mean all rules and order are tossed out the window to do so.
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I posted your 2016 buisness write up and your 2020 write up.

Pointed out that in 2016 you were selling locations based on score. Followed by a bunch of pics.

2020 you are selling glassing locations and trail locations followed by a line about all your pics were free on MM.

I have not ever said FOUNDER is running illegal. He found a niche where there were no laws or regs. As the laws/regs changed to try to adapt to where he was in 2016, in 2020 he found places not addressed.

The intent of the law IMO was to stop scouting services selling locations of animals.

I'm sure next year WY will address "glassing locations" and he will be forced to "evolve"

Founder is correct. I have no special insight. I just read what he put in his ads.

But. I don't hunt G. I don't live in WY. I can only observe. I can't do anything else.

All the years in here talking chit, i was surprised that was the first censor I had. But it's his site,he can do what he wants, I don't pay much to he here.
 
I predict WY lawmakers will throw up their hands and say: “we tried” when asked to do more by outfitters.
 
Hoss with all do respect.
You have to be the most jealous person I have ever had the pleasure of not knowing.
I do beleive you are a good man and have honest intent but the over the top jealousy that you show really brings down all of your good intent and make you appear with just alot of hate.
Just my opinion i could be wrong and I am sure you will point out how I am wrong.
 
notdonhunting said:
Hoss with all do respect.
You have to be the most jealous person I have ever had the pleasure of not knowing.
I do beleive you are a good man and have honest intent but the over the top jealousy that you show really brings down all of your good intent and make you appear with just alot of hate.
Just my opinion i could be wrong and I am sure you will point out how I am wrong.
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I wouldn’t call Hoss jealous, more bitter. He’s the only white guy I know that does drywall. I think he comes on here to vent. Have you ever hung drywall? It’s hard work for little pay. And then you got a bunch of border jumpers doing it for cheap. Im sure the outfitters feel founder is a border jumper undercutting them. Some may say hossburr and founder have more in common than they thought? :unsure:
 
notdonhunting said:
Hoss with all do respect.
You have to be the most jealous person I have ever had the pleasure of not knowing.
I do beleive you are a good man and have honest intent but the over the top jealousy that you show really brings down all of your good intent and make you appear with just alot of hate.
Just my opinion i could be wrong and I am sure you will point out how I am wrong.
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Feel free to expand.
How exactly would I be jealous?

Of what?
 
The exact same thing Founder is doing is and has been done with offshore saltwater fishing for years!

Now if I were Founder I would start a club a 501c7 and get members to join. This private club can then discuss what ever they want.

Now go do some habitat work and get off the keyboards!
 
So Founder knew he was doing wrong, verified that he was doing wrong with the state of Wyoming, and decides that he is going to continue doing business the same as he has previously but is only selling pretty mountain scenic viewpoints and if there happens to be a trophy animal in the area well he knew nothing about that ?? Yeah this Founder sure sounds like a real stand up guy?
 
So maybe founder found a way around it. Next year they will just make more laws because of this until he gets shut down.

This could be simply done and over with by paying the big bucks that outfitters pay. That's why they are upset. They pay to play and believe me it isn't cheap. I helped out an outfitter for a bit and I was shocked the time and money he had to spend. The money to buy camp blew my mind. $ xxx,xxx is the ball park to buy a really good camp from a previous owner.

I do have question founder when you collect your GPS fees or should I say coaching fees do you pay taxes on that in Wyoming or Utah or both?
 
bigshotca said:
So Founder knew he was doing wrong, verified that he was doing wrong with the state of Wyoming, and decides that he is going to continue doing business the same as he has previously but is only selling pretty mountain scenic viewpoints and if there happens to be a trophy animal in the area well he knew nothing about that ?? Yeah this Founder sure sounds like a real stand up guy?
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NO, Founder knows for an absolute fact that he ain't done anything wrong. If Founder were doing anything wrong, Founder would've been charged with something and silly new laws would have been a waste of time.
What Founder provides now does not include geographic locations of any game, it's simply his opinion on one of the best places to hunt after many, many days of scouting. Along with much more valuable information.
 
nfh said:
So maybe founder found a way around it. Next year they will just make more laws because of this until he gets shut down.

This could be simply done and over with by paying the big bucks that outfitters pay. That's why they are upset. They pay to play and believe me it isn't cheap. I helped out an outfitter for a bit and I was shocked the time and money he had to spend. The money to buy camp blew my mind. $ xxx,xxx is the ball park to buy a really good camp from a previous owner.

I do have question founder when you collect your GPS fees or should I say coaching fees do you pay taxes on that in Wyoming or Utah or both?
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Call the Forest Service, no outfitter license is needed for me to share my opinions. If the F.S. comes up with a permit to share opinions on the best places to hunt, I'll gladly pay for it. There's also no state license or permit required to share my opinion. Only in your mind is what I do the same as an outfitter, that's only in your mind. In reality, it is not. Educate yourself on the definitions of outfitters and guides and why they're required to have permits, licenses, use days, insurance, etc.
I pay all my taxes as I should. None in Wyoming, as I don't live in Wyoming, conduct no business in Wyoming, and Wyoming has no state tax income tax anyway! Since you brought that up, it would probably be worth getting a business license in Wyoming and claiming income there to save 5%. Good call!
 
but you are conducting business in Wyoming. selling gps locations or excuse me "deer hunt info" is business in Wyoming.

Also the term in my mind, well read back every post. Your side has like what 2 people that favor what you do against 297 others
 
Ever wonder why law/code books are 6" thick?

Here's why. Wyoming doesn't want scouting services. Instead of either

1 Honoring that

2 Working with them to codify what is a new industry.

Founder spends his time playing "what if"

So it becomes a yearly "try to catch me, try to stop me.

So year after year another reg is added. Until you have a 6"deep lawbook.



2020 version of what he does looks pretty hard to stop.

Congrats is in order I guess
 
Mr_Lahey said:
and founder wonders why people don't like him or utards in general.
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You might as well disparage me and Texans in general (and all other states you aren’t from) along with your Utards comments. Your comments are not cool and do not belong in an adult conversation. Easy to type anything on the internet but if you think I am the only person you just lost the respect of, you are kidding yourself.
 
txhunter58 said:
You might as well disparage me and Texans in general (and all other states you aren’t from) along with your Utards comments. Your comments are not cool and do not belong in an adult conversation. Easy to type anything on the internet but if you think I am the only person you just lost the respect of, you are kidding yourself.
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I live in Utah. Have family in Wyoming. We share borders, thus share animals.

There is a dislike of " Utards" in Wy.

The general thought being "they have chit for hunting, then run up here and act like they own the place"

I GUARANTEE it rubs the dudes up in and around G what Founder is doing. Don't fool yourself into think it's only the WYOGA that aren't happy about it.
 
Hoss I don’t have a dog in the fight, it rubs me wrong that a guy would go to the extent that he has to try and make himself feel good about what he is doing, legal or otherwise, get a clarification from the state, understand that what he is doing is now illegal, then sit back and think, if I reword what I’m doing or what I’m selling I can skate the law! But then again Founder has proven time and again in this post that he is not trying to skate the law or find any loopholes in this thread, sad part is he might even believe what he’s spewing?
 
bigshotca said:
Hoss I don’t have a dog in the fight, it rubs me wrong that a guy would go to the extent that he has to try and make himself feel good about what he is doing, legal or otherwise, get a clarification from the state, understand that what he is doing is now illegal, then sit back and think, if I reword what I’m doing or what I’m selling I can skate the law! But then again Founder has proven time and again in this post that he is not trying to skate the law or find any loopholes in this thread, sad part is he might even believe what he’s spewing?
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Call it loophole, skating, whatever. I’m abiding by the law and will continue to do so. Just because a law is passed doesn’t mean I’m going to magically think it’s right. IMO, it’s not right and I’m comfortable with my opinion and will continue to do what I want to do legally. If I can no longer do things I want legally, I’ll quit.
I sure as heck won’t change my opinion of something unless I want to.

I also didn’t like 3.2% Mike’s Hard Lemonade in Utah, so I’d sometimes buy 5% at the liquor store. I guess I was using a loophole, right. Silly.
 
Founder said:
Call it loophole, skating, whatever. I’m abiding by the law and will continue to do so. Just because a law is passed doesn’t mean I’m going to magically think it’s right. IMO, it’s not right and I’m comfortable with my opinion and will continue to do what I want to do legally. If I can no longer do things I want legally, I’ll quit.
I sure as heck won’t change my opinion of something unless I want to.

I also didn’t like 3.2% Mike’s Hard Lemonade in Utah, so I’d sometimes buy 5% at the liquor store. I guess I was using a loophole, right. Silly.
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Umm, the state owns the liquor store. They get paid either way.


"Ethics are the things we do as sportsmen that are above the law"
-huntcourse.com

We covered this a few days ago in hunter education.


Im sure Founder is that one guy who read the articles in Playboy.

He's the guy who goes to the strip club because they have a good lunch special.

I can hear it now, "Mrs founder I was at the club, to enjoy the burger. I was holding that dollar in my hand trying to get the nice law school students attention to bring some ketchup. I didn't ask her to sit on my lap, I was simply sharing my opinion of various dance moves with her. By no means did I pay for a lap dance, that's silly"


When he was selling GPS locations based on antler scores had an issue.

But that's because I'm a hunter and i find that both distasteful and disgusting(I make no distiction for guides).

But. I'm not a botanist. Nor a trail engineer.

So selling GPS locations of trails and wildflowers is out of my area.
 
I wonder if a person was to purchase one of your “coaching packages” to go look at a trail you had sold them and they shoot a trophy game animal if there would be any issues regarding laws?
 
I’m thinking you’d better put a disclaimer in your contract that any big game animals a buyer comes across is solely their responsibility and that you had nothing to do with finding said animal
 
Founder said:
I found that a thread was deleted on Saturday. I trust it was removed for good reason. I can guarantee you though, hossburr does not have secret insight that threatens me.
Just because I allow all opinion to be shared on the site does not mean all rules and order are tossed out the window to do so.
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It just made you look threatened. Or like you were hiding something. There was absolutely nothing in that post to justify its deletion. Annoying maybe but it broke no rules of the site. Was just unwarranted censorship by someone.
 
hossblur said:
I live in Utah. Have family in Wyoming. We share borders, thus share animals.

There is a dislike of " Utards" in Wy.

The general thought being "they have chit for hunting, then run up here and act like they own the place"

I GUARANTEE it rubs the dudes up in and around G what Founder is doing. Don't fool yourself into think it's only the WYOGA that aren't happy about it.
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A non-resident has just as much right to act like they "own the place" as a resident. It's NATIONAL PUBLIC land, which means it's owned by EVERYONE.
 
Invalid point. Doesn’t apply to anybody scouting or otherwise recreating throughout the year and it doesn’t apply to anybody with a tag during the season. We all have the same right to be there and own the place.
 
SureShot said:
Invalid point. Doesn’t apply to anybody scouting or otherwise recreating throughout the year and it doesn’t apply to anybody with a tag during the season. We all have the same right to be there and own the place.
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Same thing your mom should have taught you.

YOU ARE A GUEST, ACT LIKE IT.

They aren't making laws to stop Founder from selling their wildflower spots. Or where the prettiest trees are.

They don't want him selling locations of their deer. THEIR DEER.

And quite frankly. If you don't like the laws they create around THEIR DEER, stay home.

"Thanks for the opportunity". The only thing a NR should say to any state they hunt in. Realizing he/she is representing whatever state their license plates show residency of.



Don't get accessing public land confused with accessing wildlife. They are 2 separate issues.
 
The problem with any "Law/Regulation" is the ability to enforce it. High dollar guides have been making a lot of money putting trophy aminals on the ground for there clients. Some of that success is most definitely coming from scouts locating these animals. If we think this law is going to prevent scouts from selling information you are pretty naive. There will be plenty of meetings going on in the bar or breakfast table with offers.
 
tracker12 said:
The problem with any "Law/Regulation" is the ability to enforce it. High dollar guides have been making a lot of money putting trophy aminals on the ground for there clients. Some of that success is most definitely coming from scouts locating these animals. If we think this law is going to prevent scouts from selling information you are pretty naive. There will be plenty of meetings going on in the bar or breakfast table with offers.
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From my perspective.

I didn't know Founder was doing this until a year or so ago.

I know the other world famous trophy hunter Denning is/was too. Which is ironic.

But we all saw the app where locations were sold. It was cumbsy at best. But technology gets better daily.

But it will happen. 100% guarantee it. And it will be difficult to enforce as well.

If you contention is banning guides, im in.

We keep sitting around saying "be hard to enforce", followed by "gotta do something".

We banned drones. Hard to enforce too.

What's the difference betweeb a drone and a scout?

They are doing the same thing.

Here's a novel idea.

They don't want selling of locations. DONT SELL LOCATIONS. I know, old fashioned. In today's age of I'm special and I deserve an exception. But you could just NOT SELL LOCATIONS.

BIGGEST tgreat to our sport is tech. We are either gonna step up quickly and stop it, or we can kiss the sport goodbye.

A deer is nowhere near smart enough to outlast tech.

Quit looking at where it is today, look down the road to where it's headed.
 
I have always heard that people from Colorado don’t like Texans for the same reasons mentioned above. I have found that to be true...........for only about 2% of the people in Colorado. ?. 98% of Colorado residents and I have gotten along great. People are people and hunters are hunters. If you treat them with respect and find a common interest you don’t just get along, you make new friends. I literally have scores of Colorado friends. So any attempt to classify a group of people as “Utards” or whatever is just bigotry.

I am heading to my cabin in Southwest CO this Saturday and called the person that runs the store at the lake nearby because we have become friends. She gave me a weather and fishing report. If I asked her to, she would check on my cabin. I help her out with her dog from time to time because I am a veterinarian. 2 other Colorado residents that have cabins up there have become good friends and we fish, scout, and hunt together. And visit all year long. I am not sure how people can do things any other way.

There are certainly asshats in ever state. They are of all races and economic classes. That is why we can choose to ignore them in real Life or use the ignore button on here.
 
hossblur said:
From my perspective.

I didn't know Founder was doing this until a year or so ago.

I know the other world famous trophy hunter Denning is/was too. Which is ironic.

But we all saw the app where locations were sold. It was cumbsy at best. But technology gets better daily.

But it will happen. 100% guarantee it. And it will be difficult to enforce as well.

If you contention is banning guides, im in.

We keep sitting around saying "be hard to enforce", followed by "gotta do something".

We banned drones. Hard to enforce too.

What's the difference betweeb a drone and a scout?

They are doing the same thing.

Here's a novel idea.

They don't want selling of locations. DONT SELL LOCATIONS. I know, old fashioned. In today's age of I'm special and I deserve an exception. But you could just NOT SELL LOCATIONS.

BIGGEST tgreat to our sport is tech. We are either gonna step up quickly and stop it, or we can kiss the sport goodbye.

A deer is nowhere near smart enough to outlast tech.

Quit looking at where it is today, look down the road to where it's headed.
Click to expand...
Reminds me of the history of steelhead fishing in California.

When I started fishing in the early 1960's the river was alive with steelhead. The limit was 3 a day. There was very little access to the river because of private property, and brushed in edges, and a very limited road access. All was well with the fishing world.

Then one day a guy from Oregon showed up with one of them ugly drift boats. It was more of a curiosity than anything. He put in upriver and floated for miles fishing every nook and cranny on the river. And he was very successful. He used Hot Shots and Wee Warts and worked the runs until the fish would strike. Seemed like a dirty trick to me. The limit was still 3 a day.

It didn't take long and everybody got a drift boat. At first they made their own and then they started building them commercially.

In a few years drift boats were spaced out 100 yards apart for the entire river day after day. And then the guides showed up. I know one guide who killed over 200 steelhead one year. And the Fish & Game kept the limit at 3 per day. They were selling licenses like crazy.

One year the fishing dropped off and it was really hard to catch even one let alone a limit. Over the next few years the blame game started. Those F'N loggers, gravel miners, poachers, global warming, oil companies, etc.

Then the Fish & Game woke up and listed our steelhead as an endangered species. Now you can fish for steelhead but not keep one. Now the marijuana growers are sucking the headwaters dry and Eel River is a moss garden in the summer. They warn us not to swim in it.

If it can be screwed up, humans will find a way, is my point. Deer is no different, but make that money Brian while you can. It's legal.
 
Deerlove said:
Like I've said before if founder started renting LR rifles for Wy, they would get banned.
Click to expand...
LOL, true. You hear the talk about wanting to end point sharing for everyone because the guy in Utah happens to find big bucks and as a result new buddies are willing to share their points and go hunting together.
This comment from earlier is how many think, "We'd also love to see you put in for a few years without getting drawn and have to wait a while to hunt. Would be nice to see you deal with actual human experiences from time to time. We don't all live in fairytale land and get to hunt for a living."
The opinion isn't based on anything other than bitterness.
The argument of many that it's effecting the game herd or is unethical is just a cover of BS. That's my opinion, therefore unswayed by those opinions.
 
Txhunter, I think when most talk about not liking people from Utah, Colorado, Texas, etc. It's more about their ethics, or lack thereof. Personally, I have no issue with individual(s) from other states and have met some great people, with great ethics, from outside of Wyoming. BUT, I have had way too many encounters to count with Colorado folks while fly fishing. Come up and fish the Miracle Mile for a few days and you will leave scratching your head. I have had issues with hunters from Utah, Colorado and Wisconsin (still trying to figure out how how guys from Wisconsin buy 4 wheelers/sxs with elk bugles attached). I'm not saying everyone from Wyoming is ethical, but I personally have not had an issue from residents here, and have always been given my space while fishing/hunting.

Many believe, myself included, what founder is doing is unethical, but don't dislike him personally. I will ask the question again. Why not stay in Utah and sell scouting packages? Is it because he's allowed to make money off of Wyoming's deer herd and the scouting photos excite those who have points to share with him? Is it because Utah's laws don't allow him the luxury of point sharing so he can hunt every year in great units? Why not Colorado, Nevada, Idaho, etc. I also don't think founder is a very honest person. He's all over the place when telling us why he's doing what's he's doing. It's very easy to see through the lies if you take off the cheerleader uniform. He's milking the system year after year for a tag, and making money without paying the fees others have to pay. Why should Wyoming have to keep making new laws, adjusting old one's because one guy feels so deserving. I would wager the next new change is going to be point sharing, because of how much HE is abusing it. This should really piss off the occasional point sharers who do so every once in a blue moon. Thanks in advance founder....
 
grosventrehunter said:
Txhunter, I think when most talk about not liking people from Utah, Colorado, Texas, etc. It's more about their ethics, or lack thereof. Personally, I have no issue with individual(s) from other states and have met some great people, with great ethics, from outside of Wyoming. BUT, I have had way too many encounters to count with Colorado folks while fly fishing. Come up and fish the Miracle Mile for a few days and you will leave scratching your head. I have had issues with hunters from Utah, Colorado and Wisconsin (still trying to figure out how how guys from Wisconsin buy 4 wheelers/sxs with elk bugles attached). I'm not saying everyone from Wyoming is ethical, but I personally have not had an issue from residents here, and have always been given my space while fishing/hunting.

Many believe, myself included, what founder is doing is unethical, but don't dislike him personally. I will ask the question again. Why not stay in Utah and sell scouting packages? Is it because he's allowed to make money off of Wyoming's deer herd and the scouting photos excite those who have points to share with him? Is it because Utah's laws don't allow him the luxury of point sharing so he can hunt every year in great units? Why not Colorado, Nevada, Idaho, etc. I also don't think founder is a very honest person. He's all over the place when telling us why he's doing what's he's doing. It's very easy to see through the lies if you take off the cheerleader uniform. He's milking the system year after year for a tag, and making money without paying the fees others have to pay. Why should Wyoming have to keep making new laws, adjusting old one's because one guy feels so deserving. I would wager the next new change is going to be point sharing, because of how much HE is abusing it. This should really piss off the occasional point sharers who do so every once in a blue moon. Thanks in advance founder....
Click to expand...
I'm abusing the point system because other people want to go hunting with me??? I have too many hunting friends for your liking? Ridiculous, but your way of thinking is very popular. Bitter because I live a "Fairytale" life as someone said. LOL :)

There is no single reason I sell my knowledge of places I visit in Wyoming. I do so because that's where I want to be backpacking, because I'll probably have a tag there, because I know it so very well, and other reasons. It's a win/win for me and the guys I help. BTW- I'll probably be doing the same in CO this year, depending on the tag I have.

I have to laugh because I believe there a number of people who criticize me, whom also sit and watch my videos and look at my photos to try and steal where I'm scouting, yet I'm unethical for selling my information. If they can steal it, then it's OK. One fellow ripping me in this thread offered me $5,000 to find him a big deer, yet still jumps on here to rip into me. :rolleyes:
 
Seems like you're cherry picking the comments you respond to by how easy they are to combat. Eel made a pretty good point....
 
Let's be honest they are not your hunting buddies. This is a term you use to make yourself feel better. You use them, period. Tell us how many points you shared with these buddies so they could have a deer, elk or antelope tag. How many of these new buddies have you helped after the points were used up.
 
I do not always agree with Founder, but I think some of the heat he is taking on this subject is too far fetched. It seems that some of you is taking the side of the Wyoming outfitters assoc. in trying to stop Founder and others like him from doing his scouting and selling the information where trophy game animals might be located.
I hate to tell you that if they could get away with it, the Wyoming Outfitters Assoc. would have their politicians pass laws that NO ONE could hunt Wyoming without engaging the services of a outfitter and that includes Wyoming residents.
Look at the laws that were passed in Wyoming to force non residents to engage outfitters in wilderness areas for hunting and that is not the only law passed that benefitted outfitters.
I have hunted Wyoming many times in the past on private ranches and most of those ranchers speak ill of the outfitters due to them trying to take control of the hunting in Wyoming.
Be careful on who you support.
RELH
 
Alwayshunting said:
Seems like you're cherry picking the comments you respond to by how easy they are to combat. Eel made a pretty good point....
Click to expand...
He made a great point. But my selling my knowledge isn't what's hurting any deer herd. I help 4-5 guys a year! How the heck is that hurting anything? And many don't even kill deer! There are problems that effect game herds, but people scouting and selling that knowledge is not one of them. I've been doing it for 4 years, others have been doing it much, much longer and yet zero impact to any game herds. Feel free to show us how it's effected any game herd anywhere and in anyway other than in a fantasy world of thought.
 
grosventrehunter said:
Let's be honest they are not your hunting buddies. This is a term you use to make yourself feel better. You use them, period. Tell us how many points you shared with these buddies so they could have a deer, elk or antelope tag. How many of these new buddies have you helped after the points were used up.
Click to expand...
How do you know?!?! LOL You have zero clue what you're talking about, but it's funny. I'm sure they really appreciate your wise words. I'm sure they're all feeling so screwed. :)

You're so right, look how sad Scott is. I'm sure he's regretting his decision to go hunting with me. :ROFLMAO:
brianlatturner92618-4.jpg
 
RELH said:
I do not always agree with Founder, but I think some of the heat he is taking on this subject is too far fetched. It seems that some of you is taking the side of the Wyoming outfitters assoc. in trying to stop Founder and others like him from doing his scouting and selling the information where trophy game animals might be located.
I hate to tell you that if they could get away with it, the Wyoming Outfitters Assoc. would have their politicians pass laws that NO ONE could hunt Wyoming without engaging the services of a outfitter and that includes Wyoming residents.
Look at the laws that were passed in Wyoming to force non residents to engage outfitters in wilderness areas for hunting and that is not the only law passed that benefitted outfitters.
I have hunted Wyoming many times in the past on private ranches and most of those ranchers speak ill of the outfitters due to them trying to take control of the hunting in Wyoming.
Be careful on who you support.
RELH
Click to expand...

Believe this or not, but outfitters were not the driving force to get "Founder's Law" passed. They were definitely in favor of it, surely voiced their opinion, but it was Wy G&F that pushed this and pushed hard. Game managers, not outfitters. I know this for fact.
 
Founder said:
He made a great point. But my selling my knowledge isn't what's hurting any deer herd. I help 4-5 guys a year! How the heck is that hurting anything? And many don't even kill deer! There are problems that effect game herds, but people scouting and selling that knowledge is not one of them. I've been doing it for 4 years, others have been doing it much, much longer and yet zero impact to any game herds. Feel free to show us how it's effected any game herd anywhere and in anyway other than in a fantasy world of thought.
Click to expand...
killing lots of top end bucks absolutely hurts game herds. If you give out locations to big deer that would have otherwise lived they do not get to rut that year and pass on their genetics. That without a doubt hurts the deer. If you consistently shoot out the top tier animals eventually your herd will suffer. And when you do it in another state you are in a way killing more of someone else's deer. I know you don't agree but those deer belong to Wyoming. The land is for everyone to use but those deer belong to them. I like to hunt out of state but I don't pimp out the animals of my state or any other state because I know that it's better in the long run to have some of those big animals live to die another day. That is one reason whitetail deer do so well, because people know that sometimes you gotta let big bucks live and that you can't kill them all. So yes, you, and anyone else that does it, absolutely hurt the deer herd when you sell them to the highest bidder.
 
Founder said:
He made a great point. But my selling my knowledge isn't what's hurting any deer herd. I help 4-5 guys a year! How the heck is that hurting anything? And many don't even kill deer! There are problems that effect game herds, but people scouting and selling that knowledge is not one of them. I've been doing it for 4 years, others have been doing it much, much longer and yet zero impact to any game herds. Feel free to show us how it's effected any game herd anywhere and in anyway other than in a fantasy world of thought.
Click to expand...


Okay.... Where I am from and used to hunt in idaho was exploited for profit. Just one time by one individual. By your standards that hurts nothing, right? He didn't tell anyone any exact locations but in my experience, the place is completely worthless now. Overrun with idiots who just want to be a meat eater.

That is a much grander scale than what you are doing but I promise the same principles apply. Owning this site makes you a public figure and the advertising, either intentional or unknowing, that you are giving to wy G and H. Will certainly be part of its demise. You're actively trying to kill what you love. Really kind of ironic...

At the very least, what you are doing is telling 5 people who tell 5 people who tell just their closest friends and soon all you will see while engaging in your beloved scouting is the trash left by the invalids you've sent there. Enjoy
 
grosventrehunter said:
Txhunter, I think when most talk about not liking people from Utah, Colorado, Texas, etc. It's more about their ethics, or lack thereof. Personally, I have no issue with individual(s) from other states and have met some great people, with great ethics, from outside of Wyoming. BUT, I have had way too many encounters to count with Colorado folks while fly fishing. Come up and fish the Miracle Mile for a few days and you will leave scratching your head. I have had issues with hunters from Utah, Colorado and Wisconsin (still trying to figure out how how guys from Wisconsin buy 4 wheelers/sxs with elk bugles attached). I'm not saying everyone from Wyoming is ethical, but I personally have not had an issue from residents here, and have always been given my space while fishing/hunting.

Many believe, myself included, what founder is doing is unethical, but don't dislike him personally. I will ask the question again. Why not stay in Utah and sell scouting packages? Is it because he's allowed to make money off of Wyoming's deer herd and the scouting photos excite those who have points to share with him? Is it because Utah's laws don't allow him the luxury of point sharing so he can hunt every year in great units? Why not Colorado, Nevada, Idaho, etc. I also don't think founder is a very honest person. He's all over the place when telling us why he's doing what's he's doing. It's very easy to see through the lies if you take off the cheerleader uniform. He's milking the system year after year for a tag, and making money without paying the fees others have to pay. Why should Wyoming have to keep making new laws, adjusting old one's because one guy feels so deserving. I would wager the next new change is going to be point sharing, because of how much HE is abusing it. This should really piss off the occasional point sharers who do so every once in a blue moon. Thanks in advance founder....
Click to expand...


Easy answer.

Mossback WLH, SFW would shut him down in a heartbeat. Don't forget, Utah is owned and operated by special interest groups.

A dude paying $7k for a deer tag in G might have some power. See what the $40k guys have in Utah.


Anyone ever read the story about Founder in a competitors site?

Great story all about how his dad taught him how to hunt big deer. The skills, patience, etc.

Anyone ever buy a scouting package from Founders dad?

I wonder why?

I know what the guys who taught me things think about selling it out for a cheap buck.
 
Last edited:
Founder said:
He made a great point. But my selling my knowledge isn't what's hurting any deer herd. I help 4-5 guys a year! How the heck is that hurting anything? And many don't even kill deer! There are problems that effect game herds, but people scouting and selling that knowledge is not one of them. I've been doing it for 4 years, others have been doing it much, much longer and yet zero impact to any game herds. Feel free to show us how it's effected any game herd anywhere and in anyway other than in a fantasy world of thought.
Click to expand...


How many other services are running around G?
 
txhunter58 said:
I have always heard that people from Colorado don’t like Texans for the same reasons mentioned above. I have found that to be true...........for only about 2% of the people in Colorado. ?. 98% of Colorado residents and I have gotten along great. People are people and hunters are hunters. If you treat them with respect and find a common interest you don’t just get along, you make new friends. I literally have scores of Colorado friends. So any attempt to classify a group of people as “Utards” or whatever is just bigotry.

I am heading to my cabin in Southwest CO this Saturday and called the person that runs the store at the lake nearby because we have become friends. She gave me a weather and fishing report. If I asked her to, she would check on my cabin. I help her out with her dog from time to time because I am a veterinarian. 2 other Colorado residents that have cabins up there have become good friends and we fish, scout, and hunt together. And visit all year long. I am not sure how people can do things any other way.

There are certainly asshats in ever state. They are of all races and economic classes. That is why we can choose to ignore them in real Life or use the ignore button on here.
Click to expand...
Californians.

When Utah was a buy a tag state we used to get a lot of Californians.

They'd roll into town in 2 wheel drive trucks. Get up early and head up the mountain. 3rd week of October. And be stuck, everywhere. Sideways across the canyon roads. No winches, chains, shovels.

We'd spend opening morning for years yanking out dudes who had no buisness being on a mtn in late October.

I hunted with County Sheriff. Every year he'd have to leave his boys and hunting with them to go head up Search and Rescue to inevitably have to to search all night for some Californian, lost, usually in a foot of snow with a jacket and tennis shoes.

After a few years, those blue plates with yellow letters just pissed you off.

So yeah. As a Utard, I totally get the Utard label. It's not fiction, it's been earned.
 
Now lets hear how many points you have shared with people like "Scott", or helped after their points dried up. Are you going to answer the other questions I asked? Not sure if this will help you answer but since you like to use so many here ya go????
 
This is the one my buddy was after a few years ago. I'm sure he was bummed about having to hunt this little buck. ;)

5555.jpg

7777.jpg
 
I don't think anyone is questioning your ability to find good bucks? How is this relevant to the topic in debate?
 
Founder said:
This is the one my buddy was after a few years ago. I'm sure he was bummed about having to hunt this little buck. ;)

View attachment 7205
View attachment 7206
Click to expand...


Wait. Im confused.

I thought you sold glassing spots.

You sell locations of deer like this?

I'll be damned. Here we all thought you weren't selling locations, or filming without a permit.

Gee. Imagine how shocked we all are to see that was bulls*#&
 
Alwayshunting said:
I don't think anyone is questioning your ability to find good bucks? How is this relevant to the topic in debate?
Click to expand...
It's not, but how do I argue with this, "You're actively trying to kill what you love. Really kind of ironic..." I won't be giving up hunting big bucks anytime soon and I try every year to kill them. You are absolutely right. I usually get those comments in emails from anti-hunters, but I've heard it twice now in this thread. Yep, I kill deer and for 20+ years I've been providing a means for others to improve their chances of killing deer as well, and I'll be continuing. What else can I say, you got me.
 
Did I miss the part where Founder said how many times he shared his points so that he could hunt with his friends? Maybe he shared his points with Scott I guess, maybe I just over looked it??
 
I don't know. How do you argue with that? It is your argument not mine. I just enjoy an intelligent conversation. If you were arguing against it, I'd make an argument for it. I never have and never will hunt wy G. It holds no interest for me. So I don't have a dog in the fight. But I'd like to hear your argument.
 
bigshotca said:
Did I miss the part where Founder said how many times he shared his points so that he could hunt with his friends? Maybe he shared his points with Scott I guess, maybe I just over looked it??
Click to expand...
I share my points every year, it's just usually 0. :LOL: Unfortunately, this year it's 1 point I'm bringing to the table, plus horses and big bucks to hunt. Hopefully we have enough points and draw so that I can make some people mad that I live the "fairytale" life.
 
Alwayshunting said:
Nobody ever said anything about the deer you are killing being a problem. That's just you evading....
Click to expand...
Oh, you're talking about the 4-5 deer over the past 4 years that my information has helped kill? I'm sure the guys I helped couldn't have figured out how to kill a deer without me and probably would have spend the $1,000 on points and a tag, but just stayed home if I didn't help them out. :rolleyes:
The deer herd in Wyoming is about gone because of me.
 
Many decades ago, shed hunting wasn't a big deal, and the mere thought of trying to regulate someone picking up an old shed antler would have made just about any old-timer double over in laughter.

I view this scouting service in a similar light...tragedy of the commons. If the issue were literally just Founder and the handful of guys he helps out...no issue. The problem comes in when every flat brim hat from Boise, Salt Lake, and Bozeman starts offering $1500 scouting packages that are available shortly after shed hunting season is wrapped up.

I applaud Wyoming for getting ahead of the curve here...they need to do it properly - it should not be punitive towards specific folks. I also have no doubt with reasonable regulation folks like Founder will still be able to offer this service.
 
Dude! This argument from anyone isn't about the deer you've been a part of killing. Are you that simple minded? The argument is over the profit from this. I don't need a calculator to figure out you're not making enough money from it to warrant fighting a state. So that tells me that you are doing it out of principle
So now we've eradicated the monetary argument which means you're doing it for the enjoyment of doing it. WE ALL ARE! But most of us aren't trying to recoupe the cost at the gas pump. We're doing it for the love of doing it. That's what pisses people off. A lot of us do the same thing you do but feel there isn't a dollar value to be placed on helping the next guy out. It means more than that to us. By putting a price tag on it, you cheapen the actual value. Which cant be measured in dollar bills. That alienated you from the real hunters of the world.
 
Alwayshunting said:
Dude! This argument from anyone isn't about the deer you've been a part of killing. Are you that simple minded? The argument is over the profit from this. I don't need a calculator to figure out you're not making enough money from it to warrant fighting a state. So that tells me that you are doing it out of principle
So now we've eradicated the monetary argument which means you're doing it for the enjoyment of doing it. WE ALL ARE! But most of us aren't trying to recoupe the cost at the gas pump. We're doing it for the love of doing it. That's what pisses people off. A lot of us do the same thing you do but feel there isn't a dollar value to be placed on helping the next guy out. It means more than that to us. By putting a price tag on it, you cheapen the actual value. Which cant be measured in dollar bills. That alienated you from the real hunters of the world.
Click to expand...
And that's your opinion, but I don't share it. I believe other sportsmen, if needed, should be able to buy help if they want, whether from me or an outfitter or a magazine or what ever. You can argue your ethical superiority, but I'm just rolling my eyes.
 
Like my LR rifle is responsible for herd damage

Like my FLIR is responsible for herd damage

Like my drone is

Like my plane is.
 
Founder the funniest part of this whole thread is how you completely bash anyone who thinks President Trump is doing a good job down in the political forum, calling everyone unethical and having no morals if you support him, then come here and try to act like you have either of the two yourself ?? you sure are sitting on a tall horse ?
 
Founder
You do realize that any buck you kill in Wyoming or anywhere else for that matter will now be looked at as a
CHEATER BUCK
Whether it has extras or not!

Unfortunately I have lost respect for you over this. You strike me as a spoiled brat kid that throws a tantrum whenever he doesn’t get what he wants.
I like the site and most of the members here but you are spoiling it with all of your crying.
 
Founder said:
And that's your opinion, but I don't share it. I believe other sportsmen, if needed, should be able to buy help if they want, whether from me or an outfitter or a magazine or what ever. You can argue your ethical superiority, but I'm just rolling my eyes.
Click to expand...


You roll your eyes little lady. No one is stopping you. I was hoping for a better argument than that. I can get that nonsense from my 8 year old. You got nothing Holmes. Enjoy
 
Alwayshunting said:
Okay.... Where I am from and used to hunt in idaho was exploited for profit. Just one time by one individual. By your standards that hurts nothing, right? He didn't tell anyone any exact locations but in my experience, the place is completely worthless now. Overrun with idiots who just want to be a meat eater.

That is a much grander scale than what you are doing but I promise the same principles apply. Owning this site makes you a public figure and the advertising, either intentional or unknowing, that you are giving to wy G and H. Will certainly be part of its demise. You're actively trying to kill what you love. Really kind of ironic...

At the very least, what you are doing is telling 5 people who tell 5 people who tell just their closest friends and soon all you will see while engaging in your beloved scouting is the trash left by the invalids you've sent there. Enjoy
Click to expand...
 
I've got as many opinions as most guys on MM (and they're all worth what we all pay for them), but this subject really doesn't get me all that hyped up.

I really don't care that Founder is monetizing his scouting and knowledge. I don't care if somebody gets told where big bucks typically summer. They've still gotta get hunted to get killed and that's always gonna be tough. There's no guarantee the buck will be there on opening day. It's still Free Range.

I doubt any of his spots are secrets from outfitters and locals so there will still be competition for the bucks.

I doubt whether Founder has a "right" to sell those spots. But I also doubt whether WYGF has the lawful ability to regulate the "looking at" wildlife. It's Federal land, and yes, Wyoming owns the animals but as long as the animals aren't "hunted" per WY code (harassed, taken, etc...) I don't think WYGF can regulate it. I think they've exceeded their authority. Imagine them banning photographing of birds or elk. With no harm being done to the resource, I don't think WYGF has the standing to regulate it.

I do, however, think USFS could regulate, and require commercial permitting, for anybody using USFS land for the purpose of a commercial endeavor (like scouting for profit).

Basically, I think the premise of the law is lawful, but possibly not the regulatory authority.

PS. How come so many of the people who are the most argumentative (especially those from the political forum) never actually post pics of their hunts? Sometimes it seems they're here more for the internet posturing than the joy of hunting.
 
Alwayshunting said:
You roll your eyes little lady. No one is stopping you. I was hoping for a better argument than that. I can get that nonsense from my 8 year old. You got nothing Holmes. Enjoy
Click to expand...
“Lady”??? Okay, that’s a good one. Not sure what more you expect “Holmes”? You haven’t presented anything to sway me at all towards the fact that providing a service to other hunters is wrong, nor that what I provide has a negative impact on game. You have only your superior ethics (in your mind) to go on, and that’s fine, but I don’t think you have superior ethics. Just cause you think it, doesn’t make it so.
Anyway, I enjoy a debate, but we’re wasting our time when you decide that your ethics are correct and those that don’t jive are wrong.
 
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Wide Buck with Kickers
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