MDF ASKS FOR HB469 VETO

[Muley_73]

It's hard to demonize habitat....MDF and RMEF and DU have made a living off that model. To actually fight for a vanishing or at best struggling resource is too controversial. Especially when so many value opportunity over the actual resource.

Those that value opportunity above all else have given the DWR a leg to stand on for 40 plus years for poor management. So poor in fact that it is spilling into our other wildlife. Mule deer mismanagement now affects our cougars, elk, and others, they refused to get it right with the biggest resource, how the heell did anyone think they would nail it on anything else?

 

[slamdunk]

@cantkillathing
I understand your frustration and appreciate your comments and concerns, but please try to understand the MDF doesn't have biologists assigned to specific areas to monitor and manage at our discretion, that is the state's obligation.

I guarantee you the SFW didn't simply take this project on their own, they are obligated to same set of rules set forth by DNR, BLM and USFS as any and all outside Special Interest Groups are.

In the end, I'm glad they were able to get things done.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Muley_73!

Easy With The 40 Plus Years For Poor Management!

There's Bunch On Here That Can't Handle The Truth!

It's hard to demonize habitat....MDF and RMEF and DU have made a living off that model. To actually fight for a vanishing or at best struggling resource is too controversial. Especially when so many value opportunity over the actual resource.

Those that value opportunity above all else have given the DWR a leg to stand on for s 40 pluyears for poor management. So poor in fact that it is spilling into our other wildlife. Mule deer mismanagement now affects our cougars, elk, and others, they refused to get it right with the biggest resource, how the heell did anyone think they would nail it on anything else?

 

[slamdunk]

It's hard to demonize habitat....MDF and RMEF and DU have made a living off that model. To actually fight for a vanishing or at best struggling resource is too controversial. Especially when so many value opportunity over the actual resource.

Those that value opportunity above all else have given the DWR a leg to stand on for 40 plus years for poor management. So poor in fact that it is spilling into our other wildlife. Mule deer mismanagement now affects our cougars, elk, and others, they refused to get it right with the biggest resource, how the heell did anyone think they would nail it on anything else?

Great post and points, I agree with you on many of them.

We all need to keep in mind this isn't a "Utah Thing", every western state is experiencing declining Mule Deer numbers.

As far as Conservation or Special Interest groups go along with those declining Deer number concerns and questions goes?
My question, knowing what my group alone does....."Where would we be without what's already been done?"

 

[Hawkeye]

I’ve been highly critical of SFW and MDF on a variety of issues over the years, including Expo Tags. However, there are many good people who support and are members of both organizations. I respect Slammy for having the backbone to answer tough questions. He is not decision maker at MDF and was not involved in the Expo contract fiasco, but he engages and tries to provide information to the extent he has it. I respect people that don’t run from difficult issues even if they have some different opinions than me.

Hawkeye

 

[slamdunk]

Thank you @Hawkeye ?

 

[Hawkeye]

It's hard to demonize habitat....MDF and RMEF and DU have made a living off that model. To actually fight for a vanishing or at best struggling resource is too controversial. Especially when so many value opportunity over the actual resource.

Those that value opportunity above all else have given the DWR a leg to stand on for 40 plus years for poor management. So poor in fact that it is spilling into our other wildlife. Mule deer mismanagement now affects our cougars, elk, and others, they refused to get it right with the biggest resource, how the heell did anyone think they would nail it on anything else?

Muley, you raise some good points about poor management but is it really fair to blame that mismanagement on the “opportunity hunters.” Has that group controlled mule deer management over the last 40 years? The answer is no. The reality is the DWR has cut 175,000 mule deer tags in the last 40 years. Was that dictated by the opportunity crowd?

If we are going to blame any group for the piss-poor management over the last few decades then why not focus on the group that has controlled that process? Since the 90s, SFW has largely controlled the WB and had the loudest voice in the decision-making process. They have also had the ear of key legislators and the governor. When needed, SFW has flexed its muscles to influence key decisions to eliminate state-wide archery, go to micro units, increase conservation permits, create expo permits, land the latest expo contract, amend the expo tag rule to allow the DWR to extend the contract, influence the Mule Deer Plan, set herd objective numbers, set tag numbers, etc. If we are going to blame any group for the current state of our herds then why not SFW - the group that has controlled that process and was formed for the express purpose to save Utah’s mule deer?

It seems disingenuous to blame the opportunity crowd for poor management by the DWR, the WB and SFW.

Hawkeye

 

[cantkillathing]

Follow the money, where does most of the money go, it doesn't go towards general season deer herds, it goes to where the money gets spent. Meaning most of the money is being spent on limited entry units where the wealthy can continue to purchase permits that suffice their needs, or on OIL units where they can also purchase a tag to suffice their needs. if we spent hundred millions of dollars on general season deer herds where would our deer herd be today? I would bet a lot better than they are now. Next problem is that according to the UDWR and most groups, MDF, SFW are helping with buying into the lie that the deer population in Utah is outstanding. Most units are at population objectives, so how do we get real numbers and not a the fabricated one, because no group will fight this battle and get correct numbers, or if their numbers are right then as lumpy put it once then the deer numbers were definitely a lot higher in the late 70s through 80s.

 

[slamdunk]

Follow the money, where does most of the money go, it doesn't go towards general season deer herds, it goes to where the money gets spent. Meaning most of the money is being spent on limited entry units where the wealthy can continue to purchase permits that suffice their needs, or on OIL units where they can also purchase a tag to suffice their needs. if we spent hundred millions of dollars on general season deer herds where would our deer herd be today? I would bet a lot better than they are now. Next problem is that according to the UDWR and most groups, MDF, SFW are helping with buying into the lie that the deer population in Utah is outstanding. Most units are at population objectives, so how do we get real numbers and not a the fabricated one, because no group will fight this battle and get correct numbers, or if their numbers are right then as lumpy put it once then the deer numbers were definitely a lot higher in the late 70s through 80s.

This is most definitely false.
I cannot even begin to explain how many habitat projects have been done and that i personally have worked on in general season units.
I live in Utah County and have done multiple projects including new fencing, fence removals, guzzlers, plantings, etc, etc on the Wasatch Front, Nebo, Santaquin WMA, Wasatch County, Walsburg WMA, and even Lake Mountain on the new Eagle Mountain Corridor.

I understand you're still upset at things not going your way, but you are indeed stretching facts and truths now.

 

[Vanilla]

Those that value opportunity above all else have given the DWR a leg to stand on for 40 plus years for poor management. So poor in fact that it is spilling into our other wildlife. Mule deer mismanagement now affects our cougars, elk, and others, they refused to get it right with the biggest resource, how the heell did anyone think they would nail it on anything else?

Which private group has largely driven the policy decisions of the wildlife board?

The answer is easy. Will he say it?

 

[AZGuy]

What agenda item will be slipped in next? My bet is eventually we lose baiting bears, then hounds, then wolves will be slipped in. Niller let us know how that money your bent on will be spent. Keeping legislators like Snider out of the picture is worth millions imo.....but too late now.

I do agree MDF stance is hypocritical crying overreach now. Where were they two years ago when the trail cam, bait ban was shoved down our throats? You same mamby pamby boobs were Sniders biggest fan girls on that agenda item.

Wolves will already be in the La Sals and the Dolores Triangle before you know it. Then they will work over to the San Juan elk ridge.
Thank Colorado for that, well, the front range folks.

 

[Vanilla]

I don’t know him personally, but I think Slamdunk is a standup guy. While we likely agree on most things, we don’t agree about everything, and that’s okay. I think he’s genuinely trying to make a positive difference and working in good faith. We could use more like him.


Can’tkill…you know there are deer all over that mountain! ?

 

[slamdunk]

@Bigwiffy
The MDF also asked for a Veto on the trail cams law.....I posted that back then as well.

 

[slamdunk]

@Vanilla
Thank you ?

 

[cantkillathing]

This is most definitely false.
I cannot even begin to explain how many habitat projects have been done and that i personally have worked on in general season units.
I live in Utah County and have done multiple projects including new fencing, fence removals, guzzlers, plantings, etc, etc on the Wasatch Front, Nebo, Santaquin WMA, Wasatch County, Walsburg WMA, and even Lake Mountain on the new Eagle Mountain Corridor.

I understand you're still upset at things not going your way, but you are indeed stretching facts and truths now.

Ok you’re right probably uncalled for and biased statement about following the money and projects.
i get frustrated that there is no group willing to battle more for mule deer. No one willing to challenge UDWR on population numbers.
Here is the wording from several meetings that I keep hearing. “The mule deer are doing great, populations are good, but what can we do to help a struggling mule deer.”
Confusing right, in the same sentence the deer are great and struggling. I’m just think there should and can be more done with mule deer.

 

[2lumpy]

Ok you’re right probably uncalled for and biased statement about following the money and projects.
i get frustrated that there is no group willing to battle more for mule deer. No one willing to challenge UDWR on population numbers.
Here is the wording from several meetings that I keep hearing. “

“The mule deer are doing great, populations are good, but what can we to help a struggling mule deer.”

Confusing right, in the same sentence the deer are great and struggling.”

That is exactly what the DWR are doing. And so are too many sportsmen.

At least, at the very least……… for the first time since 1981, at least the DWR and a few of the sportsmen are saying “mule deer are struggling”. Before about three years ago they wouldn’t even admit it at all. So that’s at least good to hear. Too late…… maybe but at the very least now, after over 40 years, more than a handful of sportsmen and the DWR are admitting they are struggling. Yes, most are still contradicting themselves in the same sentence but at least, for the love of the lifestyle…… finally, they at least are contradicting themselves. That’s progress!!!

That’s a hell of a sorry thing to be joyful about but by hell I’ll take it and be damn glad we’re finally getting that out of them.

 

[slamdunk]

@2lumpy @cantkillathing

Yes absolutely the DNR knowingly admit there are issues facing our deer numbers.
Every western state is battling this together to figure things out.
I sit in these committee meetings listening to biologists and directors discussing shared information amongst our neighboring states who face the same issues we here in Utah do.

The USFS and BLM just partnered with the MDF and earmarked $65 million dollars over a 5 year contract for habitat restoration projects, not to mention all the other projects already planned and scheduled.

I know I have posted this link several times before but here it is again.
This is a good tool to use that shows a lot of project information.

Utah's Watershed Restoration Initiative

Water Restoration Initiative run by DNR

wri.utah.gov

 

[SS!]

@2lumpy @cantkillathing

Yes absolutely the DNR knowingly admit there are issues facing our deer numbers.
Every western state is battling this together to figure things out.
I sit in these committee meetings listening to biologists and directors discussing shared information amongst our neighboring states who face the same issues we here in Utah do.

The USFS and BLM just partnered with the MDF and earmarked $65 million dollars over a 5 year contract for habitat restoration projects, not to mention all the other projects already planned and scheduled.

I know I have posted this link several times before but here it is again.
This is a good tool to use that shows a lot of project information.

Utah's Watershed Restoration Initiative

Water Restoration Initiative run by DNR

wri.utah.gov

65 million? More govt waste. Thanks Biden! I suppose there’s worse ways to piss away the money.

 

[hossblur]

I refuse to get on the @slamdunk love train.

Bunch of buttkissers!!??


You know. It's March.

Nearly every damn one of you complaining sauntered your candy azzes to the expo to kiss the freaking ring, and forked over your cash to the group that was given all their power and clout. "to save the mule deer".

They loaded up the RACs, the WB, and lobbied the legislature for more and more. And most of you, sat back and watched.

They have clout because they can tell the legislature and gov, over 60,000 hunters showed up to support them. You all are in that number.

Further. I'll bet there are less than 5 dudes in here that got off their azz, and instead of bitching on their phone, used it to call Snider, and I can name them I'll bet. Slam, me, @Vanilla, @Hawkeye, and probably @grizzly.

YOU GAVE A GROUP CONTROL, who, aren't biologists, aren't wildlife folks, they are lobbyists, fundraisers, outfitters. Then you sit around bitching. Wade Heaton ain't bitching, he's getting his interests looked after.

But, it's banquet season, or calender season, and the loudest amongst the MM crowd, will fork over some more cash, so they can win a gun.

We all have jobs. Getting to meetings is a biatch. Bless the guys who go.

But there is ZERO excuse for anyone with a phone to not pick it up and use it BEFORE bills reach the gov. BEFORE they pass out of committee.

If you don't have the list of legislative interns phone numbers, it's because you are busy on tik tok or IG, or only fans.

But if you're too damn lazy to dial 10 digits, at least put your wallet away, take momma to dinner instead of showing up to support the group in charge at their fundraisers and headcounts.

But trust me, no one in the govs office or legislators chambers gives a rats azz about your call after the fact to whine.

 

[DBLung]

Sad how it all went down, but overall it will be beneficial. I doubt it will have a big effect on lion populations. Just glad there's an alternative method to hunt them, other than using hounds.

 

[elkhunterUT]

SFW is 100% the tail that wags the dog in the state of Utah. Blame for the current state of affairs in Utah when it comes to management rests squarely on that organizations shoulders. We definitely aren't experiencing the "Serengeti of the West" as they promised with all their welfare tags that is for sure!

It is also important to acknowledge the impact of factors like drought, rough winters, auto-collisions, predators, loss of winter habitat, etc. etc.. The UDWR is in a tough place with these factors (many of which they can't control), but also having their hands tied a bit by SFW and other special interest groups that really run the show.

I was upset with HB469 and the way the lion language was slipped in last minute (other parts of the legislation are positive and good for Utah sportsmen), but I have appreciated the viewpoint from others shared here that this is the way things work in Utah - always has, but hopefully won't always be. Shady crap going on in back rooms at the last minute is the "MO" here thanks to none other than SFW and other special interest groups with way too much influence/money.

 

[elkantlers]

@2lumpy @cantkillathing

The USFS and BLM just partnered with the MDF and earmarked $65 million dollars over a 5 year contract for habitat restoration projects, not to mention all the other projects already planned and scheduled.

Utah's Watershed Restoration Initiative

Water Restoration Initiative run by DNR

wri.utah.gov

That 65 million dollars would be better spent buying up land and keeping homes from being built on critical winter range.

 

[MrShane]

I refuse to get on the @slamdunk love train.

Bunch of buttkissers!!??


You know. It's March.

Nearly every damn one of you complaining sauntered your candy azzes to the expo to kiss the freaking ring, and forked over your cash to the group that was given all their power and clout. "to save the mule deer".

They loaded up the RACs, the WB, and lobbied the legislature for more and more. And most of you, sat back and watched.

They have clout because they can tell the legislature and gov, over 60,000 hunters showed up to support them. You all are in that number.

Further. I'll bet there are less than 5 dudes in here that got off their azz, and instead of bitching on their phone, used it to call Snider, and I can name them I'll bet. Slam, me, @Vanilla, @Hawkeye, and probably @grizzly.

YOU GAVE A GROUP CONTROL, who, aren't biologists, aren't wildlife folks, they are lobbyists, fundraisers, outfitters. Then you sit around bitching. Wade Heaton ain't bitching, he's getting his interests looked after.

But, it's banquet season, or calender season, and the loudest amongst the MM crowd, will fork over some more cash, so they can win a gun.

We all have jobs. Getting to meetings is a biatch. Bless the guys who go.

But there is ZERO excuse for anyone with a phone to not pick it up and use it BEFORE bills reach the gov. BEFORE they pass out of committee.

If you don't have the list of legislative interns phone numbers, it's because you are busy on tik tok or IG, or only fans.

But if you're too damn lazy to dial 10 digits, at least put your wallet away, take momma to dinner instead of showing up to support the group in charge at their fundraisers and headcounts.

But trust me, no one in the govs office or legislators chambers gives a rats azz about your call after the fact to whine.

Don’t say ‘all’.
I have never supported the Expo and even refused when my son invited me.
After explaining why I wouldn’t attend he did not go either.

 

[2lumpy]

It’s the opposite elkhunterUt. The UDWR is in total control……. What kind of power does SFW or any any other special interest hold group over the DWR?

Take a minute or an hour and explain how these groups are controlling the DWR……..

I’ll hold your beer…….

 

[Bigwiffy]

It’s the opposite elkhunterUt. The UDWR is in total control……. What kind of power does SFW or any any other special interest hold group over the DWR?

Take a minute or an hour and explain how these groups are controlling the DWR……..

I’ll hold your beer…….

Haha c'mon Lumpy that means SFW would have to have some transparency. Anybody a fan of SFW, and the model they've implemented in this state needs to have their head checked. To think they don't influence the Division discounts any logical thing you've ever said on this site.

 

[slamdunk]

Haha c'mon Lumpy that means SFW would have to have some transparency. Anybody a fan of SFW, and the model they've implemented in this state needs to have their head checked. To think they don't influence the Division discounts any logical thing you've ever said on this site.

In all fairness, he didn't say they did not "influence" the Division, we all know that is true.
But just as I stated in a previous post, no special interest group can even plant a bush with a signature from the DNR, therefore the Division IS very much in control with the final say in everything any group wants to do.

 

[Bigwiffy]

In all fairness, he didn't say they did not "influence" the Division, we all know that is true.
But just as I stated in a previous post, no special interest group can even plant a bush with a signature from the DNR, therefore the Division IS very much in control with the final say in everything any group wants to do.

SFW tells them where to plant the bush, what kind of bush, and how many bushes to plant.....final say DWR... "Ok Don" is that better?

 

[elkantlers]

It’s the opposite elkhunterUt. The UDWR is in total control……. What kind of power does SFW or any any other special interest hold group over the DWR?

Take a minute or an hour and explain how these groups are controlling the DWR……..

I’ll hold your beer…….

The Wildlife Board may as well be Named the SFW Board. That's how.

 

[hossblur]

It’s the opposite elkhunterUt. The UDWR is in total control……. What kind of power does SFW or any any other special interest hold group over the DWR?

Take a minute or an hour and explain how these groups are controlling the DWR……..

I’ll hold your beer…….

His name is Don Peay.

Governor's and Senators show up to his expo yearly.

You should look him up

 

[elkhunterUT]

It’s the opposite elkhunterUt. The UDWR is in total control……. What kind of power does SFW or any any other special interest hold group over the DWR?

Take a minute or an hour and explain how these groups are controlling the DWR……..

I’ll hold your beer…….

Cmon you are being disingenuous-one example: SFW has had significant presence and influence on the Wildlife Board. You know, the deciding body for wildlife management.

 

[Vanilla]

The Division doesn’t make policy. The Wildlife Board does. Then the Division has to do what the Wildlife Board tells them to manage animals. SFW absolutely has controlled the Wildlife Board.

Lumpy knows this. He’s trying to use a red herring to take people off the scent here. This is all known, but admitting any of it publicly would admit SFW is a giant failure for wildlife and for hunters. Then the house of cards comes crumbling down. We can’t have that!

 

[slamdunk]

The Division doesn’t make policy. The Wildlife Board does. Then the Division has to do what the Wildlife Board tells them to manage animals.

This statement is accurate ?

However, WB has nothing to do with the WRI system (Watershed Restoration Initiative) on conservation projects.
We go through the DNR and SITLA (Trust Lands).

 

[Muley_73]

The fact that you are all thinking SFW really has any say at this point or that they are not ornamental for the DWR to hide behind is exactly why we are to a point the legislators are making decisions.

All of the groups have done some good things and have some great people involved who I respect and appreciate. But if you think SFW is calling many shots these days you're thinking exactly the way those failing want you to think. As far as Mule Deer and SFW failure I will never argue results.

Hawk,
The 175k cut mostly happened on its own the year before the Gov made the cut official. It was not near enough to impact the herd positively, that's an unpopular stance but I firmly believe it. The opportunity crowd as been touted as the average sportsmen and used to validate the poor management of our deer herds. To argue that is either bullheaded or uneducated of the last 40 years in Utah.

 

[slamdunk]

MDF founded in 1988. Now currently has 12,000 members
RMEF found in 1984 - over 220,000 members

Not sure if the stance of the MDF is worth starting a thread for.

Would it sound better to you coming from the SFW who has 8000 members?

 

[hossblur]

Would it sound better to you coming from the SFW who has 8000 members?

And 52,000 supporters who show up for them yearly.

And if you think that's bull, read $fw PR

 

[hossblur]

The fact that you are all thinking SFW really has any say at this point or that they are not ornamental for the DWR to hide behind is exactly why we are to a point the legislators are making decisions.

All of the groups have done some good things and have some great people involved who I respect and appreciate. But if you think SFW is calling many shots these days you're thinking exactly the way those failing want you to think. As far as Mule Deer and SFW failure I will never argue results.

Hawk,
The 175k cut mostly happened on its own the year before the Gov made the cut official. It was not near enough to impact the herd positively, that's an unpopular stance but I firmly believe it. The opportunity crowd as been touted as the average sportsmen and used to validate the poor management of our deer herds. To argue that is either bullheaded or uneducated of the last 40 years in Utah.

Some of us are old enough and were around as $fw started, and are aware of what was promised, vs what was delivered.

We also know the forces.

If you want to try and blow smoke that the upper layers of the R aren't in bed with $fw, I encourage you to look who the R whip is(mike Shultz), and who runs his CWMU(Brett Bateman, son of Byron Bateman, OG of $fw and $fw WB member).

You either are clueless or are attempting to revise history. And I don't think you are clueless

 

[Keystone]

The fact that you are all thinking SFW really has any say at this point or that they are not ornamental for the DWR to hide behind is exactly why we are to a point the legislators are making decisions.

All of the groups have done some good things and have some great people involved who I respect and appreciate. But if you think SFW is calling many shots these days you're thinking exactly the way those failing want you to think. As far as Mule Deer and SFW failure I will never argue results.

Hawk,
The 175k cut mostly happened on its own the year before the Gov made the cut official. It was not near enough to impact the herd positively, that's an unpopular stance but I firmly believe it. The opportunity crowd as been touted as the average sportsmen and used to validate the poor management of our deer herds. To argue that is either bullheaded or uneducated of the last 40 years in Utah.

You really want to die on that sword?

65% reduction in hunters, "was not near enough", and $fw wasn't pushing it?

Judas.

 

[bucks]

Is Don Peay A lobbyist?

 

[SS!]

Would it sound better to you coming from the SFW who has 8000 members?

Yes

 

[Vanilla]

I agree that SFW’s influence has diminished recently with the Wildlife Board, which is a great thing, but it’s still there and we have a long ways to go yet. And if you’re going to argue it did not exert control over the board for the better part of two decades, you’re either not being honest or you don’t have a clue.

I’m not buying that 73 doesn’t have a clue, he is a reasonably intelligent guy and knows what is going on. Why is he trying to hide SFW’s failures from us and try to convince us they are someone else’s?

 

[hossblur]

Is Don Peay A lobbyist?

Yup.

Evil, but a damn good one if he works for you.

 

[Muley_73]

You really want to die on that sword?

65% reduction in hunters, "was not near enough", and $fw wasn't pushing it?

Judas.

Did I say SFW was not pushing it? Go check how many had dropped off on their own before the cap. The herd has dropped far more then 65% while technology has advanced...so yes I'll stick to my comment that the reduction was not enough.

 

[Muley_73]

I agree that SFW’s influence has diminished recently with the Wildlife Board, which is a great thing, but it’s still there and we have a long ways to go yet. And if you’re going to argue it did not exert control over the board for the better part of two decades, you’re either not being honest or you don’t have a clue.

I’m not buying that 73 doesn’t have a clue, he is a reasonably intelligent guy and knows what is going on. Why is he trying to hide SFW’s failures from us and try to convince us they are someone else’s?

Vanilla,
If you read my comment I said I would not argue with results. Yes the mule deer have been a failure and yes I hold SFW in the failure column on that battle. So you're only trying to convince yourself of the other. ; )

 

[elkassassin]

You're Wrong Hossy!

His Name Is PEAYDAY!

His name is Don Peay.

Governor's and Senators show up to his expo yearly.

You should look him up

 

[Vanilla]

Vanilla,
If you read my comment I said I would not argue with results. Yes the mule deer have been a failure and yes I hold SFW in the failure column on that battle. So you're only trying to convince yourself of the other. ; )

But that isn’t what I said. I said if you’re arguing SFW didn’t exert control over the wildlife board for a long time, you’re one of those things.

But I’m glad you’re willing to include SFW in the failure column on mule deer. That’s a start!

You and I both know the truth on SFW’s role for a really long time. I’m comfortable saying it out loud. Are you?

 

[elkassassin]

So Niller?

You Blaming PEAYDAY Soley?

But that isn’t what I said. I said if you’re arguing SFW didn’t exert control over the wildlife board for a long time, you’re one of those things.

But I’m glad you’re willing to include SFW in the failure column on mule deer. That’s a start!

You and I both know the truth on SFW’s role for a really long time. I’m comfortable saying it out loud. Are you?

 

[Themaddness]

Elkster--

I surrender. I never said any of these changes would result in miracles. To the contrary, I’ve told you several times that I am pessimistic that we will ever return to the glory days of mule deer hunting again. You really need to slow down and read what people are posting before you respond.

I look forward to taking a ride with you someday and talking hunting and wildlife management. I’ll provide a cooler full of cold dews. Despite your constant complaining and arguing, I think we’d have a great time!

Hawkeye

You had better load that up to YouTube.
If you need a gofundme for the cost of dew let me know.

 

[MrShane]

Let’s change the subject of what SFW has done for our Deer herds.
Let’s talk about what they have done for our fish?

 

[2lumpy]

Cmon you are being disingenuous-one example: SFW has had significant presence and influence on the Wildlife Board. You know, the deciding body for wildlife management.

Okay…. disingenuous it is. I’m good with that.

 

[elkassassin]

Not True Niller!

The Division doesn’t make policy. The Wildlife Board does. Then the Division has to do what the Wildlife Board tells them to manage animals. SFW absolutely has controlled the Wildlife Board.

 

[slamdunk]

And 52,000 supporters who show up for them yearly.

And if you think that's bull, read $fw PR

I personally haven't looked at the total final number of patrons that attended the Expo this year, but at the MDF booth on Sunday, I heard they were up to 32k by Saturday afternoon.
If it was in fact 52 total, that number blows the previous years completely out of the water and sounds a little high to me.....I'll find out.

Having said that, not all of the "52k" are there to support SFW, the fact that they only have 8k members completely discredits that notion.

Our booth (MDF) is right next to theirs and on all 4 days I was working our booth, there was never a line up of people buying $35 memberships.
In fact, if you are stating 52k people came to "show up for them", I'd dare say an 8k membership base is an epic failure.

I'm not picking on SFW at all, we partner with them on many projects aside from the Expo and a lot of their staff i call friends, but to assume the entire patronage is there to fluff "The Don's" pillow is just silly.
I would dare say 50% of the average public patrons there don't belong to any conservation group whatsoever.
They pay their $20 to go see awesome taxidermy work, maybe get a peek at Kristy Titus, sample multiple flavors of the 12 emerging energy drink companies and walk out with a new hand carved duck call, a flat brimmed hat signed by Muley Freak and a Bucked Up window sticker.

No one is required to purchase a membership to any entity.

Also, Keep in mind the applicants for the 200 various permits are not required to enter the Expo at all and that is contractual between the DNR and SFW/MDF, that's why the application room is outside of the Expo entrance and 100% free.

As for the breakdown of the $5 application fee-
$1.75 SFW
$1.75 MDF
$1.50 DNR
With every penny audited and allocated back into Utah's conservation efforts.

I know none of the time I just wasted writing this post wins me an award, but my view matters to me above anyone else's ?

 

[elkassassin]

I'm Working on HELL-F'N-RIGHT II!

You Boys Are Gonna Weep!

 

[slamdunk]

Let’s change the subject of what SFW has done for our Deer herds.
Let’s talk about what they have done for our fish?

Well since it doesn't appear they have an Aquatics personnel staffed, that part of the entity appears to be extremely low priority.

They do have a "Yurkey Coordinator" though.....whatever that is ?‍

 

[elkassassin]

I'll tell You Where They Could Start With The Fish:

Strawberry Reservoir!

Thin Some Of Them F'N Chubs Out!

 

[elkassassin]

Hey PUNK?

What's PEAYDAY'S Title?

Still The FOUNDER I Take It?

 

[middlefork]

The only reason "most" attend is to validate their application.
Any other participation is secondary.

Do away with the tags and the party would go away pretty darn quick.

 

[elkassassin]

You'd Think With That Kinda $ Involved They Could Spell Turkey?

 

[slamdunk]

Hey PUNK?

What's PEAYDAY'S Title?

Still The FOUNDER I Take It?

He's a Co-founder a new group called "Hunter Nation" and has been for several years.
I am not aware of any involved he may still have with SFW.

 

[Vanilla]

I personally witnessed Don Peay testify in front of the legislature two different times this session, both times claimed 60,000 hunters from all around the world attended the expo. He introduced himself as the founder of SFW in one testimony but didn’t claim to represent them as he was there asking for $350k for Hunter Nation to go lobby Wisconsin.

He specifically stated he was there representing SFW in the other testimony when he again made the 60,000 hunters from all around the world that attended his expo.

So any claims by SFW folks stating Peay is no longer involved will be met with appropriate statements about their fake news and/or lies.

 

[Vanilla]

So Niller?

You Blaming PEAYDAY Soley?

I’d like to, but that wouldn’t be totally accurate. He’s should get a lot of blame, however. And he’s a lying d bag on top of it!

Anyone remember the time the Division asked the Wildlife Board to not go with Option 2, but Peay had shown up to the meeting with his ceremonial check from SFW, and then told the Board to go with Option 2? My memory is a little fuzzy, what did the Board end up doing?

And we have folks claiming the DWR is controlling things and wanting us to believe it’s SFW?

How did Option 2 do for mule deer after all? I haven’t really been following along…

 

[Muley_73]

I’d like to, but that wouldn’t be totally accurate. He’s should get a lot of blame, however. And he’s a lying d bag on top of it!

Anyone remember the time the Division asked the Wildlife Board to not go with Option 2, but Peay had shown up to the meeting with his ceremonial check from SFW, and then told the Board to go with Option 2? My memory is a little fuzzy, what did the Board end up doing?

And we have folks claiming the DWR is controlling things and wanting us to believe it’s SFW?

How did Option 2 do for mule deer after all? I haven’t really been following along…

This is 100% the perfect example of you thinking you know what's going on and you're not even watching the real game!!!! That post is sad and hilarious all at once.

 

[slamdunk]

I personally witnessed Don Peay testify in front of the legislature two different times this session, both times claimed 60,000 hunters from all around the world attended the expo. He introduced himself as the founder of SFW in one testimony but didn’t claim to represent them as he was there asking for $350k for Hunter Nation to go lobby Wisconsin.

He specifically stated he was there representing SFW in the other testimony when he again made the 60,000 hunters from all around the world that attended his expo.

So any claims by SFW folks stating Peay is no longer involved will be met with appropriate statements about their fake news and/or lies.

Sounds clear to me that he definitely still has his hands on the inside of the business end of things.....good to know.
Thanks for the info!?

 

[Vanilla]

This is 100% the perfect example of you thinking you know what's going on and you're not even watching the real game!!!! That post is sad and hilarious all at once.

I’d love for you to educate me where I’m wrong, but we both know I’ve given you plenty of chances to do so via direct invitation and you’ve never taken the opportunity. It seems your comments here are all sizzle and no steak.

I am fine being sad and hilarious. I know where things stand and am not conflicted by loyalties to a group that has failed.

 

[hossblur]

I personally haven't looked at the total final number of patrons that attended the Expo this year, but at the MDF booth on Sunday, I heard they were up to 32k by Saturday afternoon.
If it was in fact 52 total, that number blows the previous years completely out of the water and sounds a little high to me.....I'll find out.

Having said that, not all of the "52k" are there to support SFW, the fact that they only have 8k members completely discredits that notion.

Our booth (MDF) is right next to theirs and on all 4 days I was working our booth, there was never a line up of people buying $35 memberships.
In fact, if you are stating 52k people came to "show up for them", I'd dare say an 8k membership base is an epic failure.

I'm not picking on SFW at all, we partner with them on many projects aside from the Expo and a lot of their staff i call friends, but to assume the entire patronage is there to fluff "The Don's" pillow is just silly.
I would dare say 50% of the average public patrons there don't belong to any conservation group whatsoever.
They pay their $20 to go see awesome taxidermy work, maybe get a peek at Kristy Titus, sample multiple flavors of the 12 emerging energy drink companies and walk out with a new hand carved duck call, a flat brimmed hat signed by Muley Freak and a Bucked Up window sticker.

No one is required to purchase a membership to any entity.

Also, Keep in mind the applicants for the 200 various permits are not required to enter the Expo at all and that is contractual between the DNR and SFW/MDF, that's why the application room is outside of the Expo entrance and 100% free.

As for the breakdown of the $5 application fee-
$1.75 SFW
$1.75 MDF
$1.50 DNR
With every penny audited and allocated back into Utah's conservation efforts.

I know none of the time I just wasted writing this post wins me an award, but my view matters to me above anyone else's ?

Doesn't matter why they are there to any legislator, including mine, who doesn't hunt, so sees that many people supporting SFW and assumes, they speak for a majority

 

[hossblur]

Salt Lake City, Utah: The 2022 Western Hunting & Conservation Expo (Hunt Expo) closed February 13 after four busy days with nearly 47,000 people walking the 460 booths on 680,000 square feet of the Salt Palace Convention Center in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hosted by Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife (SFW) the Mule Deer Foundation (MDF), the Hunt Expo is a primary fundraiser and the record-shattering $9.7 million raised from show passes, auctions, tag sales, and other fundraisers will be a significant boon to conservation.

That is the press release they use to lobby. That is Dons pitch.

 

[slamdunk]

Salt Lake City, Utah: The 2022 Western Hunting & Conservation Expo (Hunt Expo) closed February 13 after four busy days with nearly 47,000 people walking the 460 booths on 680,000 square feet of the Salt Palace Convention Center in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hosted by Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife (SFW) the Mule Deer Foundation (MDF), the Hunt Expo is a primary fundraiser and the record-shattering $9.7 million raised from show passes, auctions, tag sales, and other fundraisers will be a significant boon to conservation.

That is the press release they use to lobby. That is Dons pitch.

47k sounds in line with the mid 30's from the day before.

 

[Muley_73]

I’d love for you to educate me where I’m wrong, but we both know I’ve given you plenty of chances to do so via direct invitation and you’ve never taken the opportunity. It seems your comments here are all sizzle and no steak.

I am fine being sad and hilarious. I know where things stand and am not conflicted by loyalties to a group that has failed.

Vanilla,
I have explained it in depth more than once. You chose to be clouded or blinded. Yes you saw what they wanted you to see and yes you jumped to all your conclusions just like they wanted you too. You have no idea where Opt 2 started and where and when the support came. You don't know the background, the players involved. You could if you researched and listened and actually understood some of the past politics. You would had you actually been involved and not a keyboard pounder or even less at the time of Opt 2 or the 20 plus years before that. You live in a bubble that you have been content to live in since I've seen you pop onto MM. Educate yourself with reality and you'll be wiser down the road.

 

[MrShane]

You'd Think With That Kinda $ Involved They Could Spell Turkey?

Yurkeys are way more fun to hunt than Turkeys!
Yurkeys have huge fangs and grow massive sets of antlers you can measure.

 

[MrShane]

Well since it doesn't appear they have an Aquatics personnel staffed, that part of the entity appears to be extremely low priority.

They do have a "Yurkey Coordinator" though.....whatever that is ?‍
View attachment 106266

So you are saying their acronym should be changed to SWF?

 

[elkassassin]

So Hossy?

You Talkin 2022?

Or 2023?

Salt Lake City, Utah: The 2022 Western Hunting & Conservation Expo (Hunt Expo) closed February 13 after four busy days with nearly 47,000 people walking the 460 booths on 680,000 square feet of the Salt Palace Convention Center in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hosted by Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife (SFW) the Mule Deer Foundation (MDF), the Hunt Expo is a primary fundraiser and the record-shattering $9.7 million raised from show passes, auctions, tag sales, and other fundraisers will be a significant boon to conservation.

That is the press release they use to lobby. That is Dons pitch.

 

[hossblur]

So Hossy?

You Talkin 2022?

Or 2023?

That was the press release on their page.

If you've ever read or listened to The Don, after he pats himself on the back, and drops a few names, he will use the "success" of the expo to try and make it seem $fw is much more representative.

 

[hossblur]

Vanilla,
I have explained it in depth more than once. You chose to be clouded or blinded. Yes you saw what they wanted you to see and yes you jumped to all your conclusions just like they wanted you too. You have no idea where Opt 2 started and where and when the support came. You don't know the background, the players involved. You could if you researched and listened and actually understood some of the past politics. You would had you actually been involved and not a keyboard pounder or even less at the time of Opt 2 or the 20 plus years before that. You live in a bubble that you have been content to live in since I've seen you pop onto MM. Educate yourself with reality and you'll be wiser down the road.

It is interesting that a guy from central Utah, thinks he knows all these players better than guys who grew up with them, and were some of the first approached for fundraising, and were in meetings when things were said.

Funnier yet, that while other guys work where they see first hand the lobbying efforts, they too don't understand.

All these years later, none of us have ever understood Muleys association with $fw to start with. It's always some vague bs, cloaked in a mystery.

I'm pretty sure, at least inferring from his dad, who speaks clearly, Muley may have been a vendor at the expo? Meaning he'd be like all the other "critics".

 

[Vanilla]

Vanilla,
I have explained it in depth more than once. You chose to be clouded or blinded.

Actually, you haven’t. Even though I’ve asked you in public and private to tell me about this (and other things as well), the only response I’ve ever gotten is “I’ve already explained it, go educate yourself.”

I’m settled on whether you’re clueless or being dishonest now. It’s the latter.

 

[Muley_73]

Actually, you haven’t. Even though I’ve asked you in public and private to tell me about this (and other things as well), the only response I’ve ever gotten is “I’ve already explained it, go educate yourself.”

I’m settled on whether you’re clueless or being dishonest now. It’s the latter.

I’m actually very honest. You and Hoss just want to believe your agenda. I’m not saying anything to even defend SFW. I’m just saying you don’t know the reality of Opt 2. Fact SFW squashed Opt 2 on more than one occasion for years. The year it passed ….it was a done deal before SFW gave any support. Don himself wouldn’t jump in until he knew it was a done deal. But believe what you want that supports your blame. At the end of the day you and Hoss are more concerned with your personal views rather than reality of Utahs wildlife political situation.
You’re blaming the group they want you to blame. The group you are blaming is ok to take the blame. Yet nothing changes and the relationships never change…..interesting.

 

[hossblur]

I’m actually very honest. You and Hoss just want to believe your agenda. I’m not saying anything to even defend SFW. I’m just saying you don’t know the reality of Opt 2. Fact SFW squashed Opt 2 on more than one occasion for years. The year it passed ….it was a done deal before SFW gave any support. Don himself wouldn’t jump in until he knew it was a done deal. But believe what you want that supports your blame. At the end of the day you and Hoss are more concerned with your personal views rather than reality of Utahs wildlife political situation.
You’re blaming the group they want you to blame. The group you are blaming is ok to take the blame. Yet nothing changes and the relationships never change…..interesting.

Who's "they", and what do "they" gain by this conspiracy?

When you start from the naive place that $fw is for improving things for avg Joe, then it's easy to believe in conspiracy.

Or, you can just read, listen to what they want, and their founding beliefs(North American model is socialism), and what they've done, what they've pushed, and how they've done it, makes perfect sense. Always has.

Is interesting how a non $fw guy, sure seems to know a lot of inside baseball of $fw.

 

[slamdunk]

Like, love, tolerate or hate, Conservation groups and the Expo, they aren't going away and in fact will continue seeing growth and expansion.
The number in favor of far outweighs the opposed.

Those apposed, simply save your money and try not to worry about it because your not affecting it whatsoever.

Now let's embrace all this moisture and start thinking about this year's awesome antler growth since our end goal is all the same ?

 

[Muley_73]

Who's "they", and what do "they" gain by this conspiracy?

When you start from the naive place that $fw is for improving things for avg Joe, then it's easy to believe in conspiracy.

Or, you can just read, listen to what they want, and their founding beliefs(North American model is socialism), and what they've done, what they've pushed, and how they've done it, makes perfect sense. Always has.

Is interesting how a non $fw guy, sure seems to know a lot of inside baseball of $fw.

Hoss,
You're so hung up on SFW you don't see the whole picture. Does the SFW have some influence...Yes...as do many other groups...some more than the SFW and some less. Opt 2 was not an SFW plan, they openly fought it for years, especially Don. That is the first hand facts. Once it gained traction and SFW knew how the stars had lined up and knew it was going to pass, then yes they were more than happy to PR promo a check exchange and jump on the "winning" side.

At the end of the day it was a tool that the DWR chose to not properly use and you haven't heard the SFW say much about it...weird...if it was their plan and they have all the say....

Hoss,
Simple answer is "they" are the ones that are actually making the laws and decisions. "They" are the ones that would rather you drag SFW though the mud and take the heat. Guys like yourself and Vanilla play right into that. Look at this thread. It started out with specific names and questions of how it all skipped the "process". and yet it's shifted to SFW. I'll bet that is perfectly fine for those really making the decisions...and the SFW has 200 reason to be fine taking the heat. 200 reason provided by who??? They?

 

[smokepolejohnson]

Would be interesting to see a legit accurate poll of what sportsmen think of the states Conservation groups, and or what the true numbers of in state residents membership actually are with $FW. Maybe PeayCon could consult on that if state funding available is for their time.

 

[Keystone]

Hoss,
You're so hung up on SFW you don't see the whole picture. Does the SFW have some influence...Yes...as do many other groups...some more than the SFW and some less. Opt 2 was not an SFW plan, they openly fought it for years, especially Don. That is the first hand facts. Once it gained traction and SFW knew how the stars had lined up and knew it was going to pass, then yes they were more than happy to PR promo a check exchange and jump on the "winning" side.

At the end of the day it was a tool that the DWR chose to not properly use and you haven't heard the SFW say much about it...weird...if it was their plan and they have all the say....

Hoss,
Simple answer is "they" are the ones that are actually making the laws and decisions. "They" are the ones that would rather you drag SFW though the mud and take the heat. Guys like yourself and Vanilla play right into that. Look at this thread. It started out with specific names and questions of how it all skipped the "process". and yet it's shifted to SFW. I'll bet that is perfectly fine for those really making the decisions...and the SFW has 200 reason to be fine taking the heat. 200 reason provided by who??? They?

Umbrella.

According to you, management has been bad 40 years.

Your evidence, despite the flaming pile of millions of dollars, is option 2?

Remind those of us that we're there, and did know THE DON wanted, at least privately, WHEN option 2 happened.

Also, who was on the WB at the time, how did they get there?



Hoss is wrong gvabout 1 thing, I have talked to Snider, so that's 6, and Snider, especially on bait and cams, was getting pushed from the dwr. They had studied, and data. Had you of asked, you too would have known.


Comical that the defense of $fw, and their RAC and WB members is that they had no principles and sold out beliefs, for cash.


We agree. They aren't about "saving the muke deer", which was their pitch in 93'. They are about cashing checks

 

[hossblur]

Like, love, tolerate or hate, Conservation groups and the Expo, they aren't going away and in fact will continue seeing growth and expansion.
The number in favor of far outweighs the opposed.

Those apposed, simply save your money and try not to worry about it because your not affecting it whatsoever.

Now let's embrace all this moisture and start thinking about this year's awesome antler growth since our end goal is all the same ?

There are no deer. They all died. In fact, there are negative deer in the basin.

You're right.

Sure be nice if the state owned the expo, and they rotated which group got to auction tags(despite it being completely wrong).

Competition breeds a lot

 

[hossblur]

Would be interesting to see a legit accurate poll of what sportsmen think of the states Conservation groups, and or what the true numbers of in state residents membership actually are with $FW. Maybe PeayCon could consult on that if state funding available is for their time.

It will take $500,000 to conduct that poll

 

[hossblur]

Hoss,
You're so hung up on SFW you don't see the whole picture. Does the SFW have some influence...Yes...as do many other groups...some more than the SFW and some less. Opt 2 was not an SFW plan, they openly fought it for years, especially Don. That is the first hand facts. Once it gained traction and SFW knew how the stars had lined up and knew it was going to pass, then yes they were more than happy to PR promo a check exchange and jump on the "winning" side.

At the end of the day it was a tool that the DWR chose to not properly use and you haven't heard the SFW say much about it...weird...if it was their plan and they have all the say....

Hoss,
Simple answer is "they" are the ones that are actually making the laws and decisions. "They" are the ones that would rather you drag SFW though the mud and take the heat. Guys like yourself and Vanilla play right into that. Look at this thread. It started out with specific names and questions of how it all skipped the "process". and yet it's shifted to SFW. I'll bet that is perfectly fine for those really making the decisions...and the SFW has 200 reason to be fine taking the heat. 200 reason provided by who??? They?

Conspiracy theories that involve dozens of people over multiple decades, usually don't turn out to well.

Occam's razor.

If you take the lions share of the money, and have the lions share of RAC/WB mbers, the failure is yours. Not some random biologist in Price

 

[Vanilla]

The funny thing about muley73’s circular posts here is it is the Wildlife Board that makes the ultimate decisions. I’ve said that multiple times in this very thread, so the allegations of not knowing what is going on fall flat.

Also, who—or should I say, What organization filled the majority of the spots on the Board over all this time?

Muley73, it’s both sad and hilarious at the same time my friend. I’m still willing to hear you out either in public or private if you ever really want to talk about this stuff. I’m happy to learn what I don’t know. Heck, I could probably even arrange to come to you if you wanted to do it in person.

 

[smokepolejohnson]

Dawn P said it best back in the day that SFW is the only sportsmen group that legally can be involved in politics. He dismantled the Big Game Control & Wildlife boards/ and combined them in the 1995 Legislative session for a 7 person appointed “WildLife Commision” that has final say on all things Wildlife management decisions, determine when, how, and where to hunt and fish. It is what it is. Hard to cover up the train derailment. I’m sure Gov Leavitt bought the extended warranty as well on it.

Good luck in the draws. Keep the ears tucked and brimz at a respectable level of curvature.

 

[notdonhunting]

Would be interesting to see a legit accurate poll of what sportsmen think of the states Conservation groups, and or what the true numbers of in state residents membership actually are with $FW. Maybe PeayCon could consult on that if state funding available is for their time.

Right, wrong or indifference I would say majority of Utah sportsman support them, manly most sportsman are not involved enough or educated enough to really form their own opinion.
That's my uneducated opinion.

 

[Muley_73]

The funny thing about muley73’s circular posts here is it is the Wildlife Board that makes the ultimate decisions. I’ve said that multiple times in this very thread, so the allegations of not knowing what is going on fall flat.

Also, who—or should I say, What organization filled the majority of the spots on the Board over all this time?

Muley73, it’s both sad and hilarious at the same time my friend. I’m still willing to hear you out either in public or private if you ever really want to talk about this stuff. I’m happy to learn what I don’t know. Heck, I could probably even arrange to come to you if you wanted to do it in person.

You mistake my jumping on here occasionally as actually caring if you know the facts or not. I honestly don’t. I have a different view and have had for a lot of years. Literally and figuratively. Very little is based on assumptions. ?

 

[Vanilla]

You mistake my jumping on here occasionally as actually caring if you know the facts or not. I honestly don’t. I have a different view and have had for a lot of years. Literally and figuratively. Very little is based on assumptions. ?

See, now you’re being honest! When you said you’ve explained this to me before, you were not.

You’ve admitted SFW failed and now you’re being honest about never actually explaining anything in your veiled, circular digs you take at people.

This is progress, muley73. Maybe there is hope for you after all! But constantly retorting “I know something you don’t know” without ever actually adding anything of substance to a discussion makes you look like a spoiled little child trying to be cooler than the other kids on the playground at recess. Oh well, I’ve tried. And the offer will remain open indefinitely.

 

[Muley_73]

See, now you’re being honest! When you said you’ve explained this to me before, you were not.

You’ve admitted SFW failed and now you’re being honest about never actually explaining anything in your veiled, circular digs you take at people.

This is progress, muley73. Maybe there is hope for you after all! But constantly retorting “I know something you don’t know” without ever actually adding anything of substance to a discussion makes you look like a spoiled little child trying to be cooler than the other kids on the playground at recess. Oh well, I’ve tried. And the offer will remain open indefinitely.

Vanilla,
I actually have and you’ve been too blinded to see. I don’t lie at all Chief and because you don’t know the entire reality behind it doesn’t make me a liar or you privy to every detail. You don’t know because in the big picture it didn’t matter to guys like yourself…still doesn’t. It’s the same reason that above mentioned legislators didn’t check with you and Hoss before they made decisions. Not will they share all the info leading up to their decisions. It’s how the political system works or doesn’t works …it’s just reality.

 

[Muley_73]

See, now you’re being honest! When you said you’ve explained this to me before, you were not.

You’ve admitted SFW failed and now you’re being honest about never actually explaining anything in your veiled, circular digs you take at people.

This is progress, muley73. Maybe there is hope for you after all! But constantly retorting “I know something you don’t know” without ever actually adding anything of substance to a discussion makes you look like a spoiled little child trying to be cooler than the other kids on the playground at recess. Oh well, I’ve tried. And the offer will remain open indefinitely.

I only brought up your lack of knowledge on Opt 2 because it made me wonder if this is the same type of situation and you don’t actually know all the story. As far as spoiled child I would say a spoiled child would actually be the one throwing a fit because they didn’t get their own way…but that’s just me. ??‍

 

[slamdunk]

This thread has taught me a lot of things, yet left me asking questions to my Peirs to gain more political knowledge since that seems to be the hang up of many in opposition to Special Interest groups, the Expo or the combination thereof.

There seems to be disagreement on who actually calls the shots in making policies on big game laws, the WB or the DNR itself.

In doing some research on the matter, this appears to be the conclusion?
Section 3 being the Finale

<< Previous Section (23-14-2.6)

Download Options PDF | RTF | XML

Next Section (23-14-7) >>

Index	Utah Code
Title 23	Wildlife Resources Code of Utah
Chapter 14	Division of Wildlife Resources and Wildlife Board
Section 3	Powers of division to determine facts -- Policymaking powers of Wildlife Board. (Effective 5/12/2020)

---

Effective 5/12/2020
23-14-3. Powers of division to determine facts -- Policymaking powers of Wildlife Board.

(1)	The Division of Wildlife Resources may determine the facts relevant to the wildlife resources of this state.

(2)

(a) Upon a determination of these facts, the Wildlife Board shall establish the policies best designed to accomplish the purposes and fulfill the intent of all laws pertaining to wildlife and the preservation, protection, conservation, perpetuation, introduction, and management of wildlife. (b) In establishing policy, the Wildlife Board shall: (i) recognize that wildlife and its habitat are an essential part of a healthy, productive environment; (ii) recognize the impact of wildlife on humans, human economic activities, private property rights, and local economies; (iii) seek to balance the habitat requirements of wildlife with the social and economic activities of man; (iv) recognize the social and economic values of wildlife, including fishing, hunting, and other uses; and (v) seek to maintain wildlife on a sustainable basis. (c) (i) The Wildlife Board shall consider the recommendations of the regional advisory councils established in Section 23-14-2.6. (ii) If a regional advisory council recommends a position or action to the Wildlife Board, and the Wildlife Board rejects the recommendation, the Wildlife Board shall provide a written explanation to the advisory council recommending the opposing position.

(3)	No authority conferred upon the Wildlife Board by this title shall supersede the administrative authority of the executive director of the Department of Natural Resources or the director of the Division of Wildlife Resource

The Division owns the authority over the WB in the end.

 

[2lumpy]

This thread has taught me a lot of things, yet left me asking questions to my Peirs to gain more political knowledge since that seems to be the hang up of many in opposition to Special Interest groups, the Expo or the combination thereof.

There seems to be disagreement on who actually calls the shots in making policies on big game laws, the WB or the DNR itself.

In doing some research on the matter, this appears to be the conclusion?
Section 3 being the Finale

<< Previous Section (23-14-2.6)

Download Options PDF | RTF | XML

Next Section (23-14-7) >>

Index	Utah Code
Title 23	Wildlife Resources Code of Utah
Chapter 14	Division of Wildlife Resources and Wildlife Board
Section 3	Powers of division to determine facts -- Policymaking powers of Wildlife Board. (Effective 5/12/2020)

---

Effective 5/12/2020
23-14-3. Powers of division to determine facts -- Policymaking powers of Wildlife Board.

(1)	The Division of Wildlife Resources may determine the facts relevant to the wildlife resources of this state.

(2)

(a) Upon a determination of these facts, the Wildlife Board shall establish the policies best designed to accomplish the purposes and fulfill the intent of all laws pertaining to wildlife and the preservation, protection, conservation, perpetuation, introduction, and management of wildlife. (b) In establishing policy, the Wildlife Board shall: (i) recognize that wildlife and its habitat are an essential part of a healthy, productive environment; (ii) recognize the impact of wildlife on humans, human economic activities, private property rights, and local economies; (iii) seek to balance the habitat requirements of wildlife with the social and economic activities of man; (iv) recognize the social and economic values of wildlife, including fishing, hunting, and other uses; and (v) seek to maintain wildlife on a sustainable basis. (c) (i) The Wildlife Board shall consider the recommendations of the regional advisory councils established in Section 23-14-2.6. (ii) If a regional advisory council recommends a position or action to the Wildlife Board, and the Wildlife Board rejects the recommendation, the Wildlife Board shall provide a written explanation to the advisory council recommending the opposing position.

(3)	No authority conferred upon the Wildlife Board by this title shall supersede the administrative authority of the executive director of the Department of Natural Resources or the director of the Division of Wildlife Resource

The Division owns the authority over the WB in the end.

As it should be………. it’s the frustration of sportsmen that has gotten us to where we are today.

Once again, as if saying it yet again will make a darn bit of different. If the bureaucracy would do its job, the “influencers” could and would disappear into the sagebrush and the aspen trees.

 

[elkassassin]

Wait A Minute Lumpy!

They Sprayed & Killed The Sage Brush!

The elk Have Killed The Aspen!

!!!

As it should be………. it’s the frustration of sportsmen that has gotten us to where we are today.

Once again, as if saying it yet again will make a darn bit of different. If the bureaucracy would do its job, the “influencers” could and would disappear into the sagebrush and the aspen trees.

 

[2lumpy]

Wait A Minute Lumpy!

They Sprayed & Killed The Sage Brush!

The elk Have Killed The Aspen!

!!!

It was all in the name of sage grouse salvation……. so it’s all good. We have to blame that on the US Fish and Wildlife.

It’s not like the States don’t have good examples to follow!

 

[slamdunk]

As it should be………. it’s the frustration of sportsmen that has gotten us to where we are today.

Once again, as if saying it yet again will make a darn bit of different. If the bureaucracy would do its job, the “influencers” could and would disappear into the sagebrush and the aspen trees.

The influencers bring waaaaaay to many additional dollars to the table that supplement government funding to ever disappear, not to mention the multitudes of jobs and tasks that are created with all the projects taking place that wouldn't be there otherwise.

Can or should there be areas of political changes to either shift power or at least corral and tame it?
I don't think anyone on the outside would say "No".

 

[Vanilla]

The influencers bring waaaaaay to many additional dollars to the table that supplement government funding to ever disappear…

Is this even true though? Where does this money come from in the first place? And because of where it comes from, who does it really belong to?

I just don’t think SFW or MDF would exist in its current form in Utah if the expo and conservation tags didn’t provide them millions to work with in the first place.

Let the DWR auction all those conservation tags itself for two years and keep all the proceeds in-house and then let’s see where these groups are at that point and how much money they bring to the table. I have my suspicions on how that would go. The welfare teet is real in this case.

 

[slamdunk]

Is this even true though? Where does this money come from in the first place? And because of where it comes from, who does it really belong to?

I just don’t think SFW or MDF would exist in its current form in Utah if the expo and conservation tags didn’t provide them millions to work with in the first place.

Let the DWR auction all those conservation tags itself for two years and keep all the proceeds in-house and then let’s see where these groups are at that point and how much money they bring to the table. I have my suspicions on how that would go. The welfare teet is real in this case.

I can't argue a lot of your points because I don't have extensive knowledge of actual facts.

However, one thing that instantly came to mind in reading your return comment was the $65 million dollars and 5 year contract awarded solely to the MDF by the USFS and BLM to provide further aid to our cause.

$65 Million additional dollars going into the ground that wouldn't happen if we didn't exist, and if they didn't see benefits in our cause.

That in itself holds a lot of clout......or at least should.

 

[Hawkeye]

This thread has taught me a lot of things, yet left me asking questions to my Peirs to gain more political knowledge since that seems to be the hang up of many in opposition to Special Interest groups, the Expo or the combination thereof.

There seems to be disagreement on who actually calls the shots in making policies on big game laws, the WB or the DNR itself.

In doing some research on the matter, this appears to be the conclusion?
Section 3 being the Finale

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Index	Utah Code
Title 23	Wildlife Resources Code of Utah
Chapter 14	Division of Wildlife Resources and Wildlife Board
Section 3	Powers of division to determine facts -- Policymaking powers of Wildlife Board. (Effective 5/12/2020)

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Effective 5/12/2020
23-14-3. Powers of division to determine facts -- Policymaking powers of Wildlife Board.

(1)	The Division of Wildlife Resources may determine the facts relevant to the wildlife resources of this state.

(2)

(a) Upon a determination of these facts, the Wildlife Board shall establish the policies best designed to accomplish the purposes and fulfill the intent of all laws pertaining to wildlife and the preservation, protection, conservation, perpetuation, introduction, and management of wildlife. (b) In establishing policy, the Wildlife Board shall: (i) recognize that wildlife and its habitat are an essential part of a healthy, productive environment; (ii) recognize the impact of wildlife on humans, human economic activities, private property rights, and local economies; (iii) seek to balance the habitat requirements of wildlife with the social and economic activities of man; (iv) recognize the social and economic values of wildlife, including fishing, hunting, and other uses; and (v) seek to maintain wildlife on a sustainable basis. (c) (i) The Wildlife Board shall consider the recommendations of the regional advisory councils established in Section 23-14-2.6. (ii) If a regional advisory council recommends a position or action to the Wildlife Board, and the Wildlife Board rejects the recommendation, the Wildlife Board shall provide a written explanation to the advisory council recommending the opposing position.

(3)	No authority conferred upon the Wildlife Board by this title shall supersede the administrative authority of the executive director of the Department of Natural Resources or the director of the Division of Wildlife Resource

The Division owns the authority over the WB in the end.

Slammy, I think you’re misinterpreting that section of the state code. You have to read section 24–14-3 in conjunction with 24–14–8. The DWR determines the facts but the WB establishes policy. I believe the statement in Subsection 3 of 24-14-3 that the authority conferred up on the WB shall not supersede the administrative authority of the Executive Director of the DNR or DWR, is referring to those limited powers of the Executive Director set forth in 24–14–8 (employment matters, emergency hunts or closures, etc.).

We’ve seen this play out over and over again. When there is a policy issue to be determined, the DWR performs research and studies to determine the facts. The DWR then makes a recommendation to the RACs and the WB. However, all of the major policy decisions are ultimately decided by the WB. The only exception would be those limited powers reserved to the executive Director and 24–14–8. Have you ever seen the DWR establish policy and circumvent the WB? I have not except for emergency seasons or closures. etc.

I hope this helps. Vanilla has been trying to make this point in many of his recent posts.

Hawkeye

 

[slamdunk]

Slammy, I think you’re misinterpreting that section of the state code. You have to read section 24–14-3 in conjunction with 24–14–8. The DWR determines the facts but the WB establishes policy. I believe the statement in Subsection 3 of 24-14-3 that the authority conferred up on the WB shall not supersede the administrative authority of the Executive Director of the DNR or DWR, is referring to those limited powers of the Executive Director set forth in 24–14–8 (employment matters, emergency hunts or closures, etc.).

We’ve seen this play out over and over again. When there is a policy issue to be determined, the DWR performs research and studies to determine the facts. The DWR then makes a recommendation to the RACs and the WB. However, all of the major policy decisions are ultimately decided by the WB. The only exception would be those limited powers reserved to the executive Director and 24–14–8. Have you ever seen the DWR establish policy and circumvent the WB? I have not except for emergency seasons or closures. etc.

I hope this helps. Vanilla has been trying to make this point in many of his recent posts.

Hawkeye

Damnit.....this is exactly why I stear clear of politics as much as possible ?

I accept the correction, thank you.

 

[slamdunk]

@Vanilla

Have you looked at the WRI website I have posted many times in the past?

If you navigate around through it, it shows the hundreds of projects either done, in progress and scheduled, including how much each project costs and where those funds come from.
You will see Special Interest groups listed on the majority.

I firmly believe that with everything negative our deer herds are facing in this age, they desperately need more help than just the DNR can afford, both monetarily and physically.

 

[Vanilla]

$65 Million additional dollars going into the ground that wouldn't happen if we didn't exist, and if they didn't see benefits in our cause.

This is awesome! Seriously, very good. And to be clear, I don’t want any of them to cease to exist. I just wish things were handled differently.

That in itself holds a lot of clout......or at least should.

I agree. Now if I could just get one group to stop trying to have more millions of dollars earmarked specifically to better hunting and fishing opportunities for the general public! ?