Anyone know Aram Von Benedikt?

[falcon63]

AVB also a contributing editor in Sports Afield. Last edition he had an article about gearing up for long range. Ironic!!

 

[treedagain]

If someone gives the buck away how can it be stealing? They gave up on trying to keep it...

It's called intimidating them and being a bully. Plain and simple.

 

[huntindad4]

If someone gives the buck away how can it be stealing? They gave up on trying to keep it...

Although I don't really disagree, I would still be doing whatever possible to get the deer back if I thought I was entitled to it.

I will say though, her side of the story reflects a man who was being unreasonable and if that's the case I can see a young lady backing down and eventually convincing (implied by her saying she backed down and eventually her husband did) her husband to do the same.

There's also the factor of poor hit and guilt that may have accompanied that. I have poorly hit animals in the past and luckily have found all but 1 that I believe later died. The poorly hit animals that I have followed up on and recovered have all left a bad taste in my mouth that makes me feel a bit less proud of.

Maybe in this situation she felt super poorly about how deserving she was of the buck and saw his enthusiasm as a sign of him feeling deserving and ok with how it transpired and thus maybe in her eyes in the moment she felt better about him having it than her.

 

[lunacustomguns]

The one to put it down can claim the deer. They should determine he put the final shot so it’s his…to me, when you see somebody tracking a deer you shouldn’t jump over them to get the final shot and claim the deer.

This guy should have helped them track the deer and put it down. Then IMO, congratulated the lady on her deer. Instead he shows his ass. Given the articles he wrote about two guys jumping in front of him and ruining his hunt…it makes this one even more sad.

In the end he will get the deer and loose his reputation in the industry. Not worth it.

This is what several game wardens in Utah have explained to me…carry on and good hunting.

This is how I feel 100% and you described it well.

 

[lif]

This thread has listed virtually every issue that led to the final outcome. Hopefully some of us learn from all the mistakes. One thing that I haven’t heard discussed is the fact that both groups knew they were hunting in the same basin and shooting long distance. There had to have been some sort of known thoughts that it was going to be a shootout that day. Clearly they both knew they were hunting the same group of deer there.

 

[2lumpy]

Although I don't really disagree, I would still be doing whatever possible to get the deer back if I thought I was entitled to it.

I will say though, her side of the story reflects a man who was being unreasonable and if that's the case I can see a young lady backing down and eventually convincing (implied by her saying she backed down and eventually her husband did) her husband to do the same.

There's also the factor of poor hit and guilt that may have accompanied that. I have poorly hit animals in the past and luckily have found all but 1 that I believe later died. The poorly hit animals that I have followed up on and recovered have all left a bad taste in my mouth that makes me feel a bit less proud of.

Maybe in this situation she felt super poorly about how deserving she was of the buck and saw his enthusiasm as a sign of him feeling deserving and ok with how it transpired and thus maybe in her eyes in the moment she felt better about him having it than her.

I see her and her husband leaving without the deer differently. I see her and more importantly her husband assessing the situation differently. Possibly because neither have much experience in “competitive hunting”.

I also believe they were not as sure of the rules that apply to Utah’s rules regarding whose deer it is when it’s been shot by two different people. The truth is, after the many claims by many different people, I’m not sure I even know how the laws work in a case like this, that is, a disputed ownership situation. And I’ve been hunting and killing deer in Utah for nearly 50 years.

So, I see two confused young kids, confronting a seasoned, sure of himself, professional hunting author who projects himself as an “all knowledgable” hunter, claiming he’s right and their stupid young kids that don’t even deserve a deer like that one, regardless of who’s right and who’s wrong. He’s smooth and assertive and he pushes back, hard, against their passive insecurity. There is a real thing when it comes to a passive aggressive behavior. One does not need to scream, holler, threaten, to be aggressive. He was aggressive, albeit, he may have been passive in doing so.

So…… what I believe kids did was, conclude, short of taking on this guy and his buddies, in some sort of violent behavior, what else could they do but, leave and leave the deer. Not because they believed they should, not because they wanted to, but because any alternative didn’t seem like a real world, in the moment option, in the big picture. They were right and they were smart. I have to admit, I’ve been there myself when a guy I, even knew, took a disputed deer from my son. I wasn’t going to get into a violent confrontation over a deer, absolutely not. It would be stupid and it would not have ended well for my son or I.

All things in perspective folks. If there is a legal case, let it run its course, if there’s no legal case, a jerk gets the deer, and ihas apparently lost a job or two. And the young kids learned an ugly lesson in the ugly business of competitive hunting, in Utah.

Imagine that, “competitive hunting”, the very concept makes me want to puke.

As nasty as this has become, I suspect that deer has caused so much acid for everyone it’s become the ugliest buck in any of their lives.

 

[HikeHunt61]

They were right and they were smart. I have to admit, I’ve been there myself when a guy I, even knew, took a disputed deer from my son. I wasn’t going to get into a violent confrontation over a deer, absolutely not. It would be stupid and it would not have ended well for my son or I.

This^^

You can have a rational discussion between two armed groups. Once it turns beyond that, walk away...

 

[Tikka]

In 1994 pulled an antelope tag for Myton Bench... Opening day I shot a buck at about 350 yards, just guessing because I didn't have a range finder...

Anyhow I broke his spine and he was using his front legs to drag himself down a draw away from me in direction I could not see him anymore... I hurried my way over to him as I was about halfway there, I heard a gunshot come from the buck's location...

As I crested the ridge to where I last seen him crawling, I looked down in the draw and there was a guy standing over my buck... As I walked up, I said thanks for putting him out of his misery... We each admired the buck and BS'd for a couple of minutes... Thats when this guy said well, I better get to tagging and cleaning him... I said wait a minute, I broke his spine he couldn't use his back legs that's my buck... He said well, I killed him, and I was the first one to him so he's mine...

I was young and didn't know my place in this situation... I stated that this was my first antelope, and he was a good one at that and I'd really like to keep him...

The guy's response was, my boy has a football game this afternoon and I'm not going to miss it looking for another buck...
Thats when I just walked away... The buck was probably a low 80" buck, it would be my only 80" buck to this day... I would have had to buy a cape because he shot him in the neck and blew a softball size hole in it...

The moral of my story is, I'd never attempt to take anyone's game had they had hit first, no matter the shot placement lethal or not...

 

[Utah400Elk]

Only a couple people really know but I would guess he knew she shot the buck and was really trying to jump in front of her. He has articles about long range shooting and then in the moment of truth forgets to range at 700 yards.

I don’t buy it. Most people have their rifles sighted in for 200 yards (common zero range). Just a quick calculation with a BC 0f .7 (very high BC that I am giving him the best possible advantage) shooting a 160 grain 7mm bullet at 3000fps @9000 feet elevation would still have an 80 inch drop. So he either adjusted his scope for long range and screwed the shot or he was just throwing lead. I know I am beating a dead horse but the more I think about his story the more I see he has serious issues.


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Trajectory (Simplified) Input Data Ballistic Coefficient: 0.700 G1 Caliber: 0.284 in Bullet Weight: 160.0 gr Muzzle Velocity: 3000.0 ft/s Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 10.0 mph Temperature: 40.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg Humidity: 0 % Altitude: 9000.0 ft Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA Round Output to Whole Numbers: No Output Data Elevation: 4.581 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA Atmospheric Density: 0.05674 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1095.8 ft/s Maximum PBR: 384 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 324 yd Range of Maximum Height: 176 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 2433.4 ft•lbs Sectional Density: 0.283 lb/in² (yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA) Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead Calculated Table 200 -0.0 -0.0 1.3 0.6 2796.4 2.552 2777.7 0.207 36.5 17.4 300 -5.8 -1.8 2.9 0.9 2698.2 2.462 2585.9 0.316 55.7 17.7 400 -16.3 -3.9 5.2 1.2 2602.1 2.375 2405.1 0.430 75.6 18.1 500 -32.0 -6.1 8.3 1.6 2508.2 2.289 2234.6 0.547 96.3 18.4 600 -53.2 -8.5 12.1 1.9 2416.2 2.205 2073.8 0.669 117.7 18.7 700 -80.4 -11.0 16.8 2.3 2326.2 2.123 1922.1 0.795 140.0 19.1

07-Nov-23 11:37, JBM/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

Click here to report an error.

 

[Extrapale]

Well that certainly ceared it up. At they can get some YouTube hits out of this **** show.

 

[2lumpy]

Never waste a crisis.

 

[lunacustomguns]

I am a short time UT hunter, moved here from the midwest about 10 years ago. I have been in this situation twice in UT, never in any other state I have lived in.

First time I let the deer go to deescalate. I shot first, second shooter shot 15 seconds later as the deer ran. He was aggressive, deer was gut shot, whatever, I let it go. My shot was a high shoulder, deer would have died.

Second time my son shot an utterly forgettable little 2 pt. Dude came over the rise and tried to claim it. Claimed he shot at a big 4 point and it ran towards us. We never heard a shot. Son's deer was running towards where the dude came from and died facing that direction, blood trail proved this out and there was only one hole. I had my son tag the buck out in front of the dude, he grumbled and left. And I say forgettable because it was just surreal how quickly that dude (with CA plates) wanted that deer after claiming he shot a "big" 4 pt. To my son that day, that 2 pt was a trophy! And like any dad that hunts, I will never forget the look on my boys' faces every time they shot a deer no matter how small.

Aram may have legitimately taken that first shot when he thought the buck was uninjured. I've seen elk eat a .300 win mag and just stand there like nothing happened. But as soon as he realized he may have shot at an already shot deer, no matter what the law says, he should have ethically let her run the track and play it out.

 

[huntindad4]

I am a short time UT hunter, moved here from the midwest about 10 years ago. I have been in this situation twice in UT, never in any other state I have lived in.

First time I let the deer go to deescalate. I shot first, second shooter shot 15 seconds later as the deer ran. He was aggressive, deer was gut shot, whatever, I let it go. My shot was a high shoulder, deer would have died.

Second time my son shot an utterly forgettable little 2 pt. Dude came over the rise and tried to claim it. Claimed he shot at a big 4 point and it ran towards us. We never heard a shot. Son's deer was running towards where the dude came from and died facing that direction, blood trail proved this out and there was only one hole. I had my son tag the buck out in front of the dude, he grumbled and left. And I say forgettable because it was just surreal how quickly that dude (with CA plates) wanted that deer after claiming he shot a "big" 4 pt. To my son that day, that 2 pt was a trophy! And like any dad that hunts, I will never forget the look on my boys' faces every time they shot a deer no matter how small.

Aram may have legitimately taken that first shot when he thought the buck was uninjured. I've seen elk eat a .300 win mag and just stand there like nothing happened. But as soon as he realized he may have shot at an already shot deer, no matter what the law says, he should have ethically let her run the track and play it out.

F@&%ing Californians...

 

[huntindad4]

I'm starting to believe every dirt bag hunter owns a throw down set of plates. Usually CA..

That way if they wanna do something super shady they throw the plates on.

Probably buy them from transplants when they move in to ruin their state....

 

[johnnycake]

If someone gives the buck away how can it be stealing? They gave up on trying to keep it...

You sound like the kinda fella that I hope to never find around the fire at my hunting camps.

 

[Tristate]

So how much time do yall think passed between the shootshow blastathon and all parties ending up together at the blood trail of the same deer? We are talking about having to cover at least 700 yards over not flat earth to get to the bloodtrail.

 

[Tristate]

10 years from now teams will be packing these things into the woods to gun down bucks at half a mile.

 

[huntindad4]

So how much time do yall think passed between the shootshow blastathon and all parties ending up together at the blood trail of the same deer? We are talking about having to cover at least 700 yards over not flat earth to get to the bloodtrail.

Sounds like a little bit longer than it took to cover 600 yards from both party's stories.

ETA: at least they both went over. Too many "long range shooters" don't these days.

 

[Tristate]

more future of deer hunting

 

[ASB]

Why hello there, I believe it may have been Natty Lights back then?

It was those lites then......I was on the yellow Colorado Kool Aid, still am, lol

 

[johnnycake]

I'm clearly dead and gone to the hell that I didn't believe existed.

I'm reading a thread about a clear cut hunting fiasco...and Tri isn't defending the bullschtuff?!!

 

[Tristate]

I'm clearly dead and gone to the hell that I didn't believe existed.

I'm reading a thread about a clear cut hunting fiasco...and Tri isn't defending the bullschtuff?!!

I don't think you've ever seen me defend people here. You've seen me people tell people they don't know what the truth is and stuff here is useless gossip.

Now as for this case we still don't know what the truth is.

But if the lady is telling the truth then everything she and her husband, and Aram were up to was an embarrassing 5hit5how.

And if the Aram guy is telling the truth then everything he was doing plus the married couple was an all around embarrassing 5hit5how.

Everybody involved should shamefully crawl in a hole and take up pottery.

 

[johnnycake]

I think we're just gonna say, "Hey! Common ground DOES exist!" and leave it at that. No need to get into revisionist history and destroy all of this tender progress

 

[Rie bread]

Tldr- did either of the two disputed snipers post in this thread?

 

[AZ4life]

First blood man, give it to the lady.

 

[huntindad4]

Tldr- did either of the two disputed snipers post in this thread?

Not that they've admitted but I'm just gonna offer up if shooting ability can be effected by vision...

 

[JPickett]

Not that they've admitted but I'm just gonna offer up if shooting ability can be effected by vision...View attachment 125543

Hey! I didn’t do nothing to no one man

 

[huntindad4]

S

Hey! I didn’t do nothing to no one man

Sorry...I had to see if you were paying attention still...

 

[huntindad4]

Tldr- did either of the two disputed snipers post in this thread?

It wasn't Pickett

 

[Rie bread]

Super bummer for all involved. I was able to choke that novel or two down after a few beers and bowl.

Seriously though what a **** head on vonduch’s part. Not giving Rebecca or Rachel the chance to pursue is pure BS. I hope that asshat comes to his senses and pay for the Mount and delivers that personally to Rachel or Rebecca’s house.

Ps- let’s be honest she was being nice about it in her post. Von diggleberry makes a living embellishing experience for money…..

 

[Tikka]

Super bummer for all involved. I was able to choke that novel or two down after a few beers and bowl.

Seriously though what a **** head on vonduch’s part. Not giving Rebecca or Rachel the chance to pursue is pure BS. I hope that asshat comes to his senses and pay for the Mount and delivers that personally to Rachel or Rebecca’s house.

Ps- let’s be honest she was being nice about it in her post. Von diggleberry makes a living embellishing experience for money…..

Did you have two bowls? ?

 

[treedagain]

I can honestly say I would not claim anything with fur or feathers that someone else put lead in it. Extended more than a few days pheasant hunting by letting my buddies who could not hit the side of a barn claim birds. Win-Win. No luck with brothers, they could shoot just fine.

I guess I have lucky? 36 years and never an issue on big game. I can only remember 1 deer, my brother gave it 3 warning shots before I had to help him conserve ammo by killing it. Tooooo big of a buck to wait for him to reload...again.


To me I would have loved being there when that girl shot that buck to see the excitement on her face. Some of my best days in the field was with my wife and nieces when they dumped a big buck or bull. Girls that hunt are pretty cool to be around.

 

[Rie bread]

W

Did you have two bowls? ?

What was her name?

Rachelle!

 

[Makaira]

Interesting he can see the hit on the leg but didn't see a collar?

 

[Snoopdogg]

Bad timing on behalf of Winchester releasing this video. Guess who's in it?

 

[Tristate]

Bad timing on behalf of Winchester releasing this video. Guess who's in it?

Are every one of those pansies shooting off of a lead sled?

A bunch of gun writers testing a new cartridge and none of them can handle recoil??????‍

 

[Rie bread]

Are every one of those pansies shooting off of a lead sled?

A bunch of gun writers testing a new cartridge and none of them can handle recoil??????‍

Off hand shooting is a dying “style”?

 

[lif]

Bad timing on behalf of Winchester releasing this video. Guess who's in it?

400 legend has enough energy at 730 yards to take a leg off a BOAL. This we know.

 

[Tristate]

Looks like the Winchester R&D department spends more time working their thumbs than their trigger fingers.

 

[johnnycake]

Bad timing on behalf of Winchester releasing this video. Guess who's in it?

Well, one could argue that the Legend really was born just a couple weeks ago...

 

[yoteduster]

I wonder who he stole that white tail ftom...by the way does this jerk think he's Indiana Jones that hat sucks

 

[huntindad4]

Aram's becoming famous on Instagram. Pretty good reel or two on there. Probably speaking French to most of you old fuggers....

I was looking at his account and found this. He shoulda used them or maybe he did and shouldn't have.

 

[Vanilla]

Are every one of those pansies shooting off of a lead sled?

A bunch of gun writers testing a new cartridge and none of them can handle recoil??????‍

He was only 2-3 inches off the left at 200 yards too. Not bad!

 

[utarchery]

Here is the story, not my story, but man seems like a problem...

Deer Hunt 2023
I’ve debated posting this post because I don’t like contention and I don’t like putting others down in anyway. I feel I am a peacemaker, and I always try to see the good in others, and forgive quickly. But I feel I need to share my story so others can hopefully learn from this as well.
So Easton and I, went hunting this year, I finally drew a general Utah deer tag. I was so excited. I love hunting, but with three little girls at home, I haven’t been able to go as much in the last few years. So to be able to go, and have this opportunity with Easton, was pretty meaningful to me.
We hiked in with backpacks the night before opening day, about 20 minutes after light on opening morning, we spotted some bucks across from us. Easton helped me get set up and told me to shoot the buck with the collar. I took a shot at the buck in this photo. I missed my first shot. He hurried and got my gun on him again. Helping me, and watching as I took another shot. This time you could hear the difference, it was a solid hit. He didn’t move very far, and Easton helped me get ready to shoot again. I shot, and that shot was a definite hit as well. I knew it, and Easton also confirmed sitting next to me watching through his spotter. Easton said that we had just nailed him a second time. We watched where the deer headed and we were pumped!
We headed over to go check where we shot the deer. A few other hunters ran up to us. He said he shot at a deer, and that his dope was off and he knew he didn’t make a great shot. Easton said, “My wife shot a buck with a collar, did the buck you shoot at have a collar?” The man said, he did not shoot at a buck with a collar. His boy then confirmed saying he had watched the buck through a spotting scope and no collar. The man then confirmed that they knew that I had hit the buck, and that he shot after me. We told them exactly what happened for us. That I missed once, and hit the collared buck 2 times. Easton then asked the man where he was shooting from. The man confirmed from on top of those rocks in the distance. Easton ranged the location it was ≈1000 yards.
He told us to be quite because the deer he shot at, went up above from where we were standing and not below where the buck I had just shot went. We walked around for a min, and I soon confirm with Easton right where I shot the buck, there was blood and some hair. Slightly annoyed by the other hunters Easton and I started down the blood trail. After that, this guy gets super intense and says… wait! Slow down. He then pushed to the front of the blood trail. We were doing our best to be kind considering the situation. We all followed the blood trail for a minute. The man was trying to push past me and had his gun ready to shoot. He kept going faster and getting more aggressive. He turns to Easton and says “don’t worry, I’m not going to steal your wife’s deer” but continued forward. I said so let’s make this clear, the buck you shot at, was not collared correct? And he confirmed. I said “ok, so if this buck has a collar it is the buck I shot”. Easton, knowing we are getting closer, tells him we need to give the deer a minute, and not chase this buck. He tells the man again, my wife hit him twice, let’s just give him a minute. Of course this guy just runs ahead of us. As we run behind trying to keep up the man shoots off two shots. The man was standing over the dead deer.
His story changed immediately in so many ways… he all of a sudden “did” shoot this collared buck. He tells me I only maybe hit him one time. The deer had 4 shots in him. 2 were mine and the last 2 shots this man. But he changes his story that now one of those other shots were also his. He also tells Easton right in front of me, “Your wife doesn’t deserve a deer this big”. Who is this man to tell me what I deserve or what I don’t? So we debated a bit, and really tried to be kind and respectful in the process. I believe we were. He wanted to be in all of the pictures but Easton told him we were going to take pictures with my buck.
The man was basically claiming the deer from the moment he ran ahead of me and shot him. But of course he kept changing his story and in my opinion, manipulated the situation to his favor completely. I felt disrespected. He knew I was trying to avoid any fights or arguing, so we stayed calm, and he took advantage of that. He pushed past me to race down to the buck I had rightfully shot twice, and I know that deer would have expired. This was an experience of a lifetime, and he took that from me. He robbed me of my experience, and completely left me feeling down even to the point I was fighting hard to hold back tears.
My thoughts are, any decent sportsman, would have allowed us our space after we told him we had shot a buck 2 times and we were giving him a minute and going to look. He, his boy, and his friend, should have asked if we needed help, and if declined given us our space. I would never act the way that this man did. Easton and I would have found that deer, and had a completely different amazing experience. That I DID deserve… If the deer hoped up, I could have finished him off and that man could have given me that opportunity and been a good guy, instead of pushing past me and racing a girl half his size, down to my deer. He totally took advantage of the situation. As soon as he got to the deer he wouldn’t let go. He moved the animal, took pictures, and even said a prayer confirming his buck. We tried to stay as nice as possible but his lies continued. His story changed multiple times. He wasn’t willing to talk about it and said we would autopsy the deer to see what happened. Sure enough, the deer had 4 shots. My 2 shots with a 6.5 PRC and 2 were his where he had shot him from close range. We still tried to reason with him, and stand up for ourselves in the situation. He wasn’t budging at all.
We stayed at the buck for a few hours but there was no reasoning with the man, he was taking my deer. I looked at him and said. “We know we hit this deer twice”, and he basically called me a liar. But that was the truth and we had told him this from the first moment we saw him. He was not wearing orange on his head the entire time we saw the man. He moved and cut up the entire deer without tagging the animal. We were sick of arguing and decided to leave. I asked him if he had a tag and he claimed he did but never tagged the animal in front of us. We had been with them for hours.
We learned that we need to video future hunts to protect ourselves. We walked away and let him claim the deer. He wasn’t letting it go any other way. What had been the most amazing experience of my life, had quickly turned into one of the most devastating and heartbreaking experiences. He took advantage of our kindness, and he took advantage of a girl. He told me I wasn’t deserving. I would never even shoot at a buck another is shooting at, and I absolutely wouldn’t race someone down to a buck they rightfully shot, to try and make the last cowardly shot so I could claim the deer. I feel this man acted selfishly and was a poor example to his son in the process. I hope when he looks at that buck, he pictures my face and he remembers the lies he told and I hope he’s super proud of shooting my buck that obviously could not get away.
What did I learn? I learned I will stand up for myself more. I will not let a grown man manipulate the situation again. Easton tired his best to stand up to him, but I can tell you that his selfish motive was not going to budge. He did offer to get us a set of replicas made but it seemed as if this was an admittance of guilt. We walked away knowing the truth. And I will forever remember how we were honest, respectful, and kind. Let’s all teach ethics to our kids, and treat all with respect on the mountain.
And if he ever reads this post, I just want to say directly to him... You had an opportunity to let me finish what I rightfully started. You didn’t hit that buck until you ran up on it with 2 preexisting hits. You could have been a good example. Instead your selfish desire got in the way. I hope you know that this experience really hurt me. We were honest. And had the roles been reversed, we would have congratulated you and celebrated with you. I hope you can hunt with better ethics moving forward.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I know it was long. I’m sure his side of the story will paint a different picture. But Easton and I are honest people, and at the end of the day, we will always know the truth and that’s all that matters to us.
-Rachelle
** Also, Thanks East for being the best husband, I loved this time with you and I will remember it forever! The good and the bad, but mostly the good View attachment 124714 Sitting under the stars that morning, I said a prayer in my heart, and thanked heavenly father for the life we have. I was overwhelmed with gratitude for you, and in that moment just felt so blessed to be your wife. Love you! View attachment 124715
*** Also thanks to my father and mother in law for helping with the kids so we could hunt both weekends. We appreciate you both so much. Russel Cox , big thanks for helping us try and get another opportunity at a buck this past weekend, and for all the laughs! I enjoyed the time spent with you! And for someone who just had a broken foot, you can hike! You and Julie are the best!

Read his side too. I don’t know what to believe. Shitty deal either way

 

[Vanilla]

Read his side too. I don’t know what to believe. Shitty deal either way

Believe everything he said exactly as he said it and he is still a tool and a clown. I have no idea who this woman is or if her account is trustworthy at all. The beauty about this instance is I don't have to believe her to know that this guy is a clown. I just have to believe him and what he said about it.

 

[johnnycake]

Believe everything he said exactly as he said it and he is still a tool and a clown. I have no idea who this woman is or if her account is trustworthy at all. The beauty about this instance is I don't have to believe her to know that this guy is a clown. I just have to believe him and what he said about it.

By his own words, "we didn't see a collar" and "Don't worry, I'm not going to steal your wife's buck" but then....well..."it was pretty far, we didn't THINK there was a collar" and "my expertise" "we need to push the buck so he doesn't bed down so he keeps bleeding and we don't lose the blood trail" and "the only reason we had a blood trail was because I shot him in the knee and her gut shot was plugged with caul fat..."

That's more than enough to condemn him with a verdict of "that's bullschtuff, you're a bonafide twat, and you deserve 100% of the public outcry and spewing that the interwebs is launching your way".

 

[huntindad4]

Read his side too. I don’t know what to believe. Shitty deal either way

Most here did, it's on page one of this thread. At best he's a tool that should know better.

 

[SS!]

And??‍

And maybe he will comment you dummy

 

[HikeHunt61]

Question: Do Utah hunt units typically have a high hunter density? I ask because I see numerous threads where folks talk about interactions with other hunters. "I hiked into an area, other hunters scared off the deer", or two hunters shooting at the same deer, etc kinda posts.

I have hunted Wyoming, Arizona, and New Mexico now (probably around 75 hunts)- and can honestly say I've only had one remote interaction with another hunter tied to a specific animal. Heck, on half of my hunts I see absolutely nobody in the field for the full week or two I'm out there. I see them on the roads, or their camps, but hardly ever in the field.

 

[2lumpy]

Question: Do Utah hunt units typically have a high hunter density? I ask because I see numerous threads where folks talk about interactions with other hunters. "I hiked into an area, other hunters scared off the deer", or two hunters shooting at the same deer, etc kinda posts.

I have hunted Wyoming, Arizona, and New Mexico now (probably around 75 hunts)- and can honestly say I've only had one remote interaction with another hunter tied to a specific animal. Heck, on half of my hunts I see absolutely nobody in the field for the full week or two I'm out there. I see them on the roads, or their camps, but hardly ever in the field.

I moved to Utah in 1975, started hunting in 76. The streets of Cedar City, Beaver, Fillmore and Richfield were jam packed with non-resident vehicles, the sidewalks were crowded throughout town with hunters, the stores of a kinds, tires, groceries, dealerships, sporting goods, motels, restaurants, etc had lines of hunters buying supplies. In the mid 1980s, 240,000 deer hunters killed 82,000 buck deers. You couldn’t set on a rock anywhere in South Central Utah and not see multiple other hunters on opening weekend. This year. they say only a little over 63,000 deer tags were sold. In any of these communities it was hard to tell there was a hunting going on, this is the first year since 1976 that I didn’t hunt. However, I spent 7- 8 days on the Fish Lake this year during the Middle Limited Entry Elk, there were 80 hunters with tags, as I recall, and including the old days in the 70s and 80, during the hay day of the mule deer, I have to say, the Unit was as congested with hunters as I have ever seen.

I hunted the Vernon, once with a tag of my own and twice with my sons, in 2019, 2020 and 2021. The unit was jam absolutely packed with hunters for all the season, all three years.

Not as many hunters are out walking anymore, like we did in the 1970s because everyone has jacked up, tall tires, 4 wheel drive SXS 4x4 etc, with roads crisscrossing ever 1/2 mile, 80 power sporting scopes mounted in every window, counting cheater at two miles away, they don’t have to walk and they don’t. Rarely see anyone on horse back hunting anymore.

I can only speak for the south central units, but from the commits I read here, the rest of the units in Utah have the same hunting environment.

It was very crowded in the 70s and it still is today, regardless of the number of tags being sold. If the animals are out there, by and large, we kill most of the legal game every year. Yes, we are accustomed to it, sad as that may be, it’s just a fact and if you come here to hunt, it is what you should expect.

 

[Vanilla]

lumpy has some astute observations in the numbers. 25% of the number of hunters from back in the "good old days." But I agree, it doesn't feel less crowded, although I was very young back then and my memory could be faulty.

What I do know is the amount of land that has been closed off to the hunting public has increased immensely as well. So while there are only 25% of the hunters as there used to be on the deer hunts, there is also a lot area you could hunt in the 70s and 80s that is now houses, other developments, or privatized for high paying clients.

Everyone remember United Sportsmen and their early plans to pay to play? That was the beginning of the end, in my opinion.

 

[Joe2Kool]

Bad timing on behalf of Winchester releasing this video. Guess who's in it?

That was the hunt in the American Hunter mag.

 

[2lumpy]

lumpy has some astute observations in the numbers. 25% of the number of hunters from back in the "good old days." But I agree, it doesn't feel less crowded, although I was very young back then and my memory could be faulty.

What I do know is the amount of land that has been closed off to the hunting public has increased immensely as well. So while there are only 25% of the hunters as there used to be on the deer hunts, there is also a lot area you could hunt in the 70s and 80s that is now houses, other developments, or privatized for high paying clients.

Everyone remember United Sportsmen and their early plans to pay to play? That was the beginning of the end, in my opinion.

I remember all of those events. I also remember you could go to a Jazz game for less than $10 and a ski pass was $15 at Sun Dance in 1971.

No doubt housing and development has taken hunting acres away but not in a huge part of the State. Wasatch Front, a little from the Wasatch Back, Cedar City and St. George. The rest is pretty much the same. Freeways have been extremely harmful, north to south, east to west. But the big elephant in the room is the millions of acres of private that was accessible in the 70’s that is almost completely closed closed to public hunting and almost completely gone to outfitter hunting only now. I don’t blame the land owner and I don’t blame the outfitter, I place the blame exactly where it belongs and that is on the bureaucracy. They have allowed it because it was too hard to deal with politically. They applied for the job, and we have what we have, because they took the job, then didn’t prevent or mitigate it. The other parties have simpling done what the laws the bureaucrats put in place and then allowed the landowners and the outfitters to do.

In doing so, it shifted thousand of hunters of the private land, on the public land, where they have killed nearly everything legal every year. Yet, the bureaucrats still count the deer and elk on private property then present an illusion in the annual reports that we have hundreds of thousands of deer and elk to hunt.

It’s sad and it’s disgusting.

Oh by the way, green fees have gone up too, so there is that!

 

[Vanilla]

But the big elephant in the room is the millions of acres of private that was accessible in the 70’s that is almost completely closed closed to public hunting and almost completely gone to outfitter hunting only now.

Yep, that is the “privatized for high paying clients.”

I don’t blame the land owner and I don’t blame the outfitter

Neither do I. People can do what they want with their land, so long it is legal. Just explaining some reasons why our hunter numbers in the field are drastically down yet it may seem like it is still as crowded. Privatization and also closing of previously open to the public private land is a huge reason for that. Right or wrong, for better or worse.

 

[2lumpy]

Yep, that is the “privatized for high paying clients.”



Neither do I. People can do what they want with their land, so long it is legal. Just explaining some reasons why our hunter numbers in the field are drastically down yet it may seem like it is still as crowded. Privatization and also closing of previously open to the public private land is a huge reason for that. Right or wrong, for better or worse.

Absolutely correct.?

 

[mtmuley]

God bless everywhere but Utah. mtmuley

 

[Homer]

God bless everywhere but Utah. mtmuley

lmmfao.......even Cali??

 

[2lumpy]

God bless everywhere but Utah. mtmuley

Everywhere needs it, hope your prayer is answered in the affirmative. ?

 

[mtmuley]

lmmfao.......even Cali??

Can I think about it? Spent some time in Cali but the things I hunted were not big game. mtmuley

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Niller!

You're SLOW!

But If You Keep Doing The Arithmetic You're Gonna Realize There Are 50+ Reasons Why!

Keep Thinking!

It'll Eventually Sink In To That THICK Noggin!

lumpy has some astute observations in the numbers. 25% of the number of hunters from back in the "good old days." But I agree, it doesn't feel less crowded, although I was very young back then and my memory could be faulty.

What I do know is the amount of land that has been closed off to the hunting public has increased immensely as well. So while there are only 25% of the hunters as there used to be on the deer hunts, there is also a lot area you could hunt in the 70s and 80s that is now houses, other developments, or privatized for high paying clients.

Everyone remember United Sportsmen and their early plans to pay to play? That was the beginning of the end, in my opinion.

 

[hawkbill]

I just drove through Utah yesterday on the way to Flagstaff to visit my daughter. From what I could see, God lives in southern Utah, I don’t know if I have ever seen country so colorful, absolutely beautiful and Majestic.

 

[2lumpy]

I just drove through Utah yesterday on the way to Flagstaff to visit my daughter. From what I could see, God lives in southern Utah, I don’t know if I have ever seen country so colorful, absolutely beautiful and Majestic.

Cool it!

 

[Vanilla]

I just drove through Utah yesterday on the way to Flagstaff to visit my daughter. From what I could see, God lives in southern Utah, I don’t know if I have ever seen country so colorful, absolutely beautiful and Majestic.

Fake news. Utah is terrible and everyone should stay away, and half of those here should leave.

 

[hossblur]

God bless everywhere but Utah. mtmuley

It truly is a **** hole, I'd keep driving

 

[2lumpy]

Fake news. Utah is terrible and everyone should stay away, and half of those here should leave.

One of these days, Vanilla, one of these days…….

 

[feddoc]

I remember all of those events. I also remember you could go to a Jazz game for less than $10 and a ski pass was $15 at Sun Dance in 1971.

No doubt housing and development has taken hunting acres away but not in a huge part of the State. Wasatch Front, a little from the Wasatch Back, Cedar City and St. George. The rest is pretty much the same. Freeways have been extremely harmful, north to south, east to west. But the big elephant in the room is the millions of acres of private that was accessible in the 70’s that is almost completely closed closed to public hunting and almost completely gone to outfitter hunting only now. I don’t blame the land owner and I don’t blame the outfitter, I place the blame exactly where it belongs and that is on the bureaucracy. They have allowed it because it was too hard to deal with politically. They applied for the job, and we have what we have, because they took the job, then didn’t prevent or mitigate it. The other parties have simpling done what the laws the bureaucrats put in place and then allowed the landowners and the outfitters to do.

In doing so, it shifted thousand of hunters of the private land, on the public land, where they have killed nearly everything legal every year. Yet, the bureaucrats still count the deer and elk on private property then present an illusion in the annual reports that we have hundreds of thousands of deer and elk to hunt.

It’s sad and it’s disgusting.

Oh by the way, green fees have gone up too, so there is that!

What is a green fee?

 

[FixedBlade]

What is a green fee?

Golf course fee

 

[feddoc]

Can I think about it? Spent some time in Cali but the things I hunted were not big game. mtmuley

I spent some time in Laguna Beach and Newport Beach in the 70s on the hunt.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey doc?

You Find A Two Point?

I spent some time in Laguna Beach and Newport Beach in the 70s on the hunt.

 

[hossblur]

What is a green fee?

A fee some guys pay to escape the wife so they can drink beer and smoke cigars.

Other dudes are just men, no fee needed?

 

[hossblur]

I spent some time in Laguna Beach and Newport Beach in the 70s on the hunt.

Pics or it didn't happen?

 

[hawkbill]

Hoss- I’m not one to make assumptions but Luguna Beach is a Gay Community

 

[hossblur]

Hoss- I’m not one to make assumptions but Luguna Beach is a Gay Community

??????

I'm pretty sheltered obviously.

 

[feddoc]

Pics or it didn't happen?

I wish.

All 70s hippie chicks, despite what hawkbill says.

 

[hossblur]

So they had their "winter coats"?

 

[couesmagnet]

I’ve had 3 diff situations like this thread is about, all on the kaibab. There’s always someone out there near you it seems in the field.
In 1989 I had early rifle tag. My dad dropped me off on a road and I hiked up a medium sized ridge to the top. When I arrived at the top there was a dude sitting there that was roughly 80 years old. He said “ sit down next to me sunny , I’ve got all my grandchildren about to do a deer drive for me on the opposite super thick hill”.
Within minutes I could hear at least 10 diff bells ringing coming from afar that his grandchildren were carrying. Within minutes there was a minimum of 50 plus deer running our way. He said I’ll shoot the first buck I like and you shoot the second one. At least 10 bucks came through a small choke point at 100 yards along with 30 plus does. The dude quickly shot a beautiful 185 class buck. I jumped up to go look at his buck when he said ,” sit still there’s more coming”.
Less than a couple minutes later, while still sitting there a super mega giant 240 plus non typical was approaching the choke point. I quickly raised my rifle and slammed the giant at 100 yards with a 308 180 grain nailer partition.
Buck went down immediately and wasn’t even kicking his legs at all. The older fella said to me , “you go walk over to him and the other buck and I’ll stay here and watch while you’re walking till you get there”.

I had to cross a small ravine that we were on one side of. I got to the bottom of the ravine that was only maybe 20 yards deep and the guy yelled “ he’s up . The buck was lying less than 5 yards below the top of the other side of the shallow ravine. I was within 20 yards of the buck when he yelled “ he’s up “.
I saw the buck barley barley barely drag himself to the top of the ravine and big time Stumble at the top literally falling over. Just then I heard a shot come from right where the deer seemed to be standing. I ran the 20 yards to the top of the hill and came upon 2 Navajo Indians that were parked within 20 yards of the buck laying there dead. They had just pulled to the end of the road and were smoking a cigarette before turning around. My buck literally stumbled right up to them and they shot it in the brisket head on at less than 25 yards. My shot was right behind the shoulder and left a giant exit wound and lots of blood. The deer would not have gone more than another 25 yards it was just his last gasp at trying to get away.
The older fella came over to me and the 2 Navajos standing over the super giant. All the Indians kept saying was “ my buck” in very broken English. I showed them the huge blood pile literally less than 20 yards away. Still kept hearing “ my deer “ over and over while clenching their one 30 30 rifle with iron sights. It was a very tense situation with a language barrier built into it. After 10 minutes of me showing them where the buck laid and the giant exit hole in the perfect spot I and the old dude decided to live for another day with how angry and how threatening the 2 Navajos were being. The buck was at least 35 inches wide with a 210 type typical frame with at least 10 diff cheaters between both sides. I remember lightly crying as I walked off down the spine ridge to keep hunting. The buck was bigger than anything I ever saw in field and stream or outdoor life magazines. It was beyond a dream buck.
I walked down the spine ridge about 3 quarters of a mile totally devastated at what just happened. Then I glassed back across a Medium sized canyon and saw another big buck but much smaller than the one I had just lost. He looked quite a bit smaller and I was still rocked from what had just happened only 15 minutes ago.
I decided to shoot the buck he still looked dam big. Long story short the new buck was a 221 buck , 205 frame with 16 inches of trash.
I had just a shot in less than 40 minutes a minimum 240 class buck and a 220 buck in one morning. The Navajos never checked their deer out at the check out station. Probably concerned about what had just happened with me. I went there every day on the hunt to see if it got checked out. They also take pics of all the big bucks, back then with Polaroids. Check out was mandatory on the kaibab.
Crazy story but totally true. I wish I would have been older than 18 when it all happened. Just a couple more years on me and I wouldn’t have walked away like I did on the 240 buck. I wouldn’t have cared about the language Barrier and I would have stood my ground regardless of the language barrier or them clenching their rifle yelling “ mine “.
I should have dropped down really quick and tagged the animal while we were arguing. The buck would not have gone another 30 yards than he did. Worst luck ever having them parked where they were. Their shot was 20 yards from the front of their truck were they were standing. Maybe the language barrier was actually the big hold up. Who knows. I wish I would have gotten a pic of the buck at least. Oh well I had my second 200 inch plus buck down and tagged, and lost the second biggest buck I’ve seen or will ever see. The next year I drew again and shot a 201 in the same spot less than 200 yards from where the 240 I lost laid. What a deal. 2 kaibab tags I had harvested 3 bucks over 200 and one that was at least 240 more like 250 in less than 4 years. What a deal!!

 

[2lumpy]

Maybe karma came calling. You ended up with 421” and they ended up with 240”. You’re the winner! ???

 

[couesmagnet]

Another great almost unbelievable story but totally 100 percent true.
It was 2010 and I was helping a good friend on the late kaibab hunt. We were driving back to camp to eat lunch when I looked over about 90 yards off the road to see a buck that was for sure over 200 rutting does. We pulled off the road and had to shoot uphill at 90 yards. I guaranteed my buddy the buck was over 200 and he shot the buck immediately. The buck went down hard and wasn’t moving at All. I was so excited I said to my buddy who was about 60 years old, I’ll run up to the buck and check him out. I got to the buck and lifted his brisket off the ground by the horns to show my buddies 90 yards below me looking through their binos at me holding the buck. I spun the bucks head from side to side several times yelling , he’ll go 210 at least. High 190s frame with a couple kickers. I had the buck in my hands with his brisket slightly off the ground when he woke up with my hands holding his horns on both sides while lifting him to show my friends. I let go of the bucks horns and stepped back about 7 feet. The giant pinned his ears back and squared up on me with a look in his eyes I’ll never forget. Angry is an understatement.
My buddy obviously couldn’t shoot the buck with me standing there. After about 10 seconds of the buck getting ready to charge me I quickly stepped back 7 more feet uphill of the buck. The buck attempted to run and started rolling down hill towards my buddies truck who shot it. They yelled to me,, awesome he’s going to roll right down to the truck , we won’t have to carry him out.
Then the buck regained his footing inbetween me and the truck 90 yards below. My buddy still couldn’t shoot because of me being where I was. The buck had a giant exit wound straight up from the shoulder joint about 12 inches in diameter. The buck couldn’t go any faster than a fast walk and was paralleling the road we shot him from with me less than 10 yards behind him. After about 300 yards of this just waiting for him to fall dead right in front of me he got about 100 yards in front of me while still paralleling the road. Just then a lifted black Chevy came down the road and looked over and saw the buck on his last gasp and jumped out abs shot him. Another argument ensued and we ended up driving away from that one also. I had the buck in my hands literally for at least 10 seconds, and we still lost him. The guys is the black Chevy could have cared less hearing the story we told them or seeing the largest exit wound I’ve ever seen on a deer. People will do anything to go back to camp with a 200 incher I guess.
Oh well life mines on!!!

 

[hawkbill]

I wish.

All 70s hippie chicks, despite what hawkbill says.

I love hippie chicks

 

[maxpower]

I’ve had 3 diff situations like this thread is about, all on the kaibab. There’s always someone out there near you it seems in the field.
In 1989 I had early rifle tag. My dad dropped me off on a road and I hiked up a medium sized ridge to the top. When I arrived at the top there was a dude sitting there that was roughly 80 years old. He said “ sit down next to me sunny , I’ve got all my grandchildren about to do a deer drive for me on the opposite super thick hill”.
Within minutes I could hear at least 10 diff bells ringing coming from afar that his grandchildren were carrying. Within minutes there was a minimum of 50 plus deer running our way. He said I’ll shoot the first buck I like and you shoot the second one. At least 10 bucks came through a small choke point at 100 yards along with 30 plus does. The dude quickly shot a beautiful 185 class buck. I jumped up to go look at his buck when he said ,” sit still there’s more coming”.
Less than a couple minutes later, while still sitting there a super mega giant 240 plus non typical was approaching the choke point. I quickly raised my rifle and slammed the giant at 100 yards with a 308 180 grain nailer partition.
Buck went down immediately and wasn’t even kicking his legs at all. The older fella said to me , “you go walk over to him and the other buck and I’ll stay here and watch while you’re walking till you get there”.

I had to cross a small ravine that we were on one side of. I got to the bottom of the ravine that was only maybe 20 yards deep and the guy yelled “ he’s up . The buck was lying less than 5 yards below the top of the other side of the shallow ravine. I was within 20 yards of the buck when he yelled “ he’s up “.
I saw the buck barley barley barely drag himself to the top of the ravine and big time Stumble at the top literally falling over. Just then I heard a shot come from right where the deer seemed to be standing. I ran the 20 yards to the top of the hill and came upon 2 Navajo Indians that were parked within 20 yards of the buck laying there dead. They had just pulled to the end of the road and were smoking a cigarette before turning around. My buck literally stumbled right up to them and they shot it in the brisket head on at less than 25 yards. My shot was right behind the shoulder and left a giant exit wound and lots of blood. The deer would not have gone more than another 25 yards it was just his last gasp at trying to get away.
The older fella came over to me and the 2 Navajos standing over the super giant. All the Indians kept saying was “ my buck” in very broken English. I showed them the huge blood pile literally less than 20 yards away. Still kept hearing “ my deer “ over and over while clenching their one 30 30 rifle with iron sights. It was a very tense situation with a language barrier built into it. After 10 minutes of me showing them where the buck laid and the giant exit hole in the perfect spot I and the old dude decided to live for another day with how angry and how threatening the 2 Navajos were being. The buck was at least 35 inches wide with a 210 type typical frame with at least 10 diff cheaters between both sides. I remember lightly crying as I walked off down the spine ridge to keep hunting. The buck was bigger than anything I ever saw in field and stream or outdoor life magazines. It was beyond a dream buck.
I walked down the spine ridge about 3 quarters of a mile totally devastated at what just happened. Then I glassed back across a Medium sized canyon and saw another big buck but much smaller than the one I had just lost. He looked quite a bit smaller and I was still rocked from what had just happened only 15 minutes ago.
I decided to shoot the buck he still looked dam big. Long story short the new buck was a 221 buck , 205 frame with 16 inches of trash.
I had just a shot in less than 40 minutes a minimum 240 class buck and a 220 buck in one morning. The Navajos never checked their deer out at the check out station. Probably concerned about what had just happened with me. I went there every day on the hunt to see if it got checked out. They also take pics of all the big bucks, back then with Polaroids. Check out was mandatory on the kaibab.
Crazy story but totally true. I wish I would have been older than 18 when it all happened. Just a couple more years on me and I wouldn’t have walked away like I did on the 240 buck. I wouldn’t have cared about the language Barrier and I would have stood my ground regardless of the language barrier or them clenching their rifle yelling “ mine “.
I should have dropped down really quick and tagged the animal while we were arguing. The buck would not have gone another 30 yards than he did. Worst luck ever having them parked where they were. Their shot was 20 yards from the front of their truck were they were standing. Maybe the language barrier was actually the big hold up. Who knows. I wish I would have gotten a pic of the buck at least. Oh well I had my second 200 inch plus buck down and tagged, and lost the second biggest buck I’ve seen or will ever see. The next year I drew again and shot a 201 in the same spot less than 200 yards from where the 240 I lost laid. What a deal. 2 kaibab tags I had harvested 3 bucks over 200 and one that was at least 240 more like 250 in less than 4 years. What a deal!!

Pics or it never happened..... I'd love to see these two bucks you shot.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Hard call, first blood takes it. I don't know if I would want the buck if I was either one of them.

" As much as I wanted to take scalps, it was not my kill?."

 

[hawkbill]

How’s Aram holding up today

 

[Homer]

New book out….

 

[Rie bread]

I’ve had 3 diff situations like this thread is about, all on the kaibab. There’s always someone out there near you it seems in the field.
In 1989 I had early rifle tag. My dad dropped me off on a road and I hiked up a medium sized ridge to the top. When I arrived at the top there was a dude sitting there that was roughly 80 years old. He said “ sit down next to me sunny , I’ve got all my grandchildren about to do a deer drive for me on the opposite super thick hill”.
Within minutes I could hear at least 10 diff bells ringing coming from afar that his grandchildren were carrying. Within minutes there was a minimum of 50 plus deer running our way. He said I’ll shoot the first buck I like and you shoot the second one. At least 10 bucks came through a small choke point at 100 yards along with 30 plus does. The dude quickly shot a beautiful 185 class buck. I jumped up to go look at his buck when he said ,” sit still there’s more coming”.
Less than a couple minutes later, while still sitting there a super mega giant 240 plus non typical was approaching the choke point. I quickly raised my rifle and slammed the giant at 100 yards with a 308 180 grain nailer partition.
Buck went down immediately and wasn’t even kicking his legs at all. The older fella said to me , “you go walk over to him and the other buck and I’ll stay here and watch while you’re walking till you get there”.

I had to cross a small ravine that we were on one side of. I got to the bottom of the ravine that was only maybe 20 yards deep and the guy yelled “ he’s up . The buck was lying less than 5 yards below the top of the other side of the shallow ravine. I was within 20 yards of the buck when he yelled “ he’s up “.
I saw the buck barley barley barely drag himself to the top of the ravine and big time Stumble at the top literally falling over. Just then I heard a shot come from right where the deer seemed to be standing. I ran the 20 yards to the top of the hill and came upon 2 Navajo Indians that were parked within 20 yards of the buck laying there dead. They had just pulled to the end of the road and were smoking a cigarette before turning around. My buck literally stumbled right up to them and they shot it in the brisket head on at less than 25 yards. My shot was right behind the shoulder and left a giant exit wound and lots of blood. The deer would not have gone more than another 25 yards it was just his last gasp at trying to get away.
The older fella came over to me and the 2 Navajos standing over the super giant. All the Indians kept saying was “ my buck” in very broken English. I showed them the huge blood pile literally less than 20 yards away. Still kept hearing “ my deer “ over and over while clenching their one 30 30 rifle with iron sights. It was a very tense situation with a language barrier built into it. After 10 minutes of me showing them where the buck laid and the giant exit hole in the perfect spot I and the old dude decided to live for another day with how angry and how threatening the 2 Navajos were being. The buck was at least 35 inches wide with a 210 type typical frame with at least 10 diff cheaters between both sides. I remember lightly crying as I walked off down the spine ridge to keep hunting. The buck was bigger than anything I ever saw in field and stream or outdoor life magazines. It was beyond a dream buck.
I walked down the spine ridge about 3 quarters of a mile totally devastated at what just happened. Then I glassed back across a Medium sized canyon and saw another big buck but much smaller than the one I had just lost. He looked quite a bit smaller and I was still rocked from what had just happened only 15 minutes ago.
I decided to shoot the buck he still looked dam big. Long story short the new buck was a 221 buck , 205 frame with 16 inches of trash.
I had just a shot in less than 40 minutes a minimum 240 class buck and a 220 buck in one morning. The Navajos never checked their deer out at the check out station. Probably concerned about what had just happened with me. I went there every day on the hunt to see if it got checked out. They also take pics of all the big bucks, back then with Polaroids. Check out was mandatory on the kaibab.
Crazy story but totally true. I wish I would have been older than 18 when it all happened. Just a couple more years on me and I wouldn’t have walked away like I did on the 240 buck. I wouldn’t have cared about the language Barrier and I would have stood my ground regardless of the language barrier or them clenching their rifle yelling “ mine “.
I should have dropped down really quick and tagged the animal while we were arguing. The buck would not have gone another 30 yards than he did. Worst luck ever having them parked where they were. Their shot was 20 yards from the front of their truck were they were standing. Maybe the language barrier was actually the big hold up. Who knows. I wish I would have gotten a pic of the buck at least. Oh well I had my second 200 inch plus buck down and tagged, and lost the second biggest buck I’ve seen or will ever see. The next year I drew again and shot a 201 in the same spot less than 200 yards from where the 240 I lost laid. What a deal. 2 kaibab tags I had harvested 3 bucks over 200 and one that was at least 240 more like 250 in less than 4 years. What a deal!!

Aram is that you?

 

[couesmagnet]

I’ve talked to you on the phone a couple times chief. Thanks for your help on the fishing trip this summer?.
Appreciated big time.
Obviously not the guy you mentioned.

 

[Rie bread]

I’ve talked to you on the phone a couple times chief. Thanks for your help on the fishing trip this summer?.
Appreciated big time.
Obviously not the guy you mentioned.

Lots of joking around

The fall fishings been good. Let me know if you make it up this way again.

 

[couesmagnet]

Hey bro if you ever draw anything in az please call me. I’d be honored to help in any way I can. Anything I know is yours. ?

 

[S-3 Ranch]

I have had 2 giant bucks taken away from me
1. A monster muley, we where in a hunting group in a Jeep wagon and the buck was running straight away and I put a 300 mag up his arse and rolled him , he was crawling off humped up , when my dad’s bosses son blasted one off in my ear , finishing the buck off , as I sat there holding my ear , looking at the buck I here the boss tell his son “ pat you just kill a hell of a deer “ I protested it and looked for help from group of men who were working for the company, they didnt say anything, and I got bullied by the boss ( to make it worse the kid put the head on the porch over night when they got home and some neighbors dogs drug it off , lost forever)

2. shot a large white tail and a older man on the trip a client shot a much younger smaller buck and at the end of the hunt the guy grabbed up my horn and left the camp when I was packing my bags back in camp away from the skinning pole

lots of bullie DB’s walking around some circles

 

[kojac]

View attachment 124744

I'm sorry this came to what it has but you both shot to far.....the facts are, you hit the deer in the front leg, she hit the deer in the body. Her shot had a better chance of killing then yours and you both agreed that she hit the deer first... should have ended there.

Because you didn't allow her to follow up on the deer to make the final killing shot.

Your quest to fill multiple tags with a trophy class deer fogged your judgment in my opinion. Make replicas for yourself and give her the deer ? plain and simple. Everyone is happy ?

 

[2lumpy]

I have had 2 giant bucks taken away from me
1. A monster muley, we where in a hunting group in a Jeep wagon and the buck was running straight away and I put a 300 mag up his arse and rolled him , he was crawling off humped up , when my dad’s bosses son blasted one off in my ear , finishing the buck off , as I sat there holding my ear , looking at the buck I here the boss tell his son “ pat you just kill a hell of a deer “ I protested it and looked for help from group of men who were working for the company, they didnt say anything, and I got bullied by the boss ( to make it worse the kid put the head on the porch over night when they got home and some neighbors dogs drug it off , lost forever)

2. shot a large white tail and a older man on the trip a client shot a much younger smaller buck and at the end of the hunt the guy grabbed up my horn and left the camp when I was packing my bags back in camp away from the skinning pole

lots of bullie DB’s walking around some circles

Not the first time I’ve heard similar things from other young hunters that are part of a group of older men. It’s disgusting and it happens.

 

[kojac]

I can see this point, however in this case he didn't see the collar. His guys in a spotter didn't see the collar. So not 100% sure how much he can verify about his shot and where it hit based on eye witness testimony.

And he admitted she hit the deer first ...his first shot in the front leg was not vital---her first shot had a much better chance of being vital.

He didn't allow her to follow-up to make the final shot. The deer goes to the gal and maybe she will let him make replicas to hang on his wall

 

[kojac]

He doesn't live in Arizona because him and son wouldn't have Dedicated Hunter tags in Utah unless a rule change took place.

In his facebook he says he bought a small ranch in AZ.

 

[kojac]

This is how I feel 100% and you described it well.

Except for the fact that he didn't allow her to make the final ****...her first shot at least had a chance of being fatal and his was not. He needs to surrender the deer to her and hope she will let him make a replica... plain and simple

 

[BowNaxe]

Well Outdoor Life though it was unethical enough to drop him...

 

[BowNaxe]

Not the first time I’ve heard similar things from other young hunters that are part of a group of older men. It’s disgusting and it happens.

Just one of many reason I don't hunt in groups.

 

[2lumpy]

Just one of many reason I don't hunt in groups.

I understand but when kids are young they usually hunt with adults and in some cases have been taken advantage of. It doesn’t seem to happen in groups of adults that hunt together, unless you’re planning on a bar fight.

 

[2lumpy]

I understand but when kids are young they usually hunt with adults and in some cases have been taken advantage of. It doesn’t seem to happen in groups of adults that hunt together, unless you’re planning on a bar fight.

S-3 are you from Montana, or have I got you confused with someone else?

 

[S-3 Ranch]

I understand but when kids are young they usually hunt with adults and in some cases have been taken advantage of. It doesn’t seem to happen in groups of adults that hunt together, unless you’re planning on a bar fight.

Yeah I have never seen a kid get bullied by a group that he/she or parents are regularly hunting in the group, and if I was part of a group I wouldn’t tolerate any kind of bullying
kids , women , subordinates

 

[2lumpy]

Yeah I have never seen a kid get bullied by a group that he/she or parents are regularly hunting in the group, and if I was part of a group I wouldn’t tolerate any kind of bullying
kids , women , subordinates

S-3 are you from Montana, or have I got you confused with someone else?

 

[elkassassin]

I Think He's A TEXAN!

S-3 are you from Montana, or have I got you confused with someone else?