Zion Sheep, Trammer, Score?
- Thread starter bowhunt
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PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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I thought they would have it on his website but I can't find his website!!
Robb
Robb
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
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Mike,
I saw a picture of you and your ram in the latest B&C Book. I'm guessin your smile is still stuck on your face.
Those Zion sheep sure have a long thinned out look, but seem to score real well. From all the stud rams I have seen taken this year,(especially from NM and NV) it seems like lots of records are falling, and lots of permanent grins are developing! LOL
Congrats to all.
I saw a picture of you and your ram in the latest B&C Book. I'm guessin your smile is still stuck on your face.
Those Zion sheep sure have a long thinned out look, but seem to score real well. From all the stud rams I have seen taken this year,(especially from NM and NV) it seems like lots of records are falling, and lots of permanent grins are developing! LOL
Congrats to all.
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
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- 10,578
+1 lbh-----
Way a nice Ram Mike.
Robb
Way a nice Ram Mike.
Robb
B
boatanchor
Guest
You wont be hearing from Trammer for a couple weeks, him and rutrings are south of the border looking for Monster Muleys and basking in the sunshine !
A
astriblen
Guest
i killed a 160 ram in the zion unit
A
astriblen
Guest
i will post some pics of it in the next day or so
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
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Congratulations astriblen.
Did you ever check out other units closer to home, or did you just head to the Zion?
Obviously you found one you liked. LOVE TO HEAR YOUR STORY!
Did you ever check out other units closer to home, or did you just head to the Zion?
Obviously you found one you liked. LOVE TO HEAR YOUR STORY!
A
astriblen
Guest
we hunted all over by home but never found one that i liked, so we went down to zion in the middle of november and found a good one
bowhunt
Long Time Member
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LB
Pretty long Rams there for sure. Thin out towards the end? The young ones yes.
There were 4 Rams with the Ram I shot. 2 were shorter / broomed heavy, so they looked massive at the end.
1 of those rams was shot the same year I harvested, it scored 165.
Look at the guys hand around the end of one horn on my Ram.
I am pretty sure the other 2 have never been shot, well perhaps that Ram that Trammer shot was one of them.
Here is the side view of my Ram, you can see that the thinning out, is not very significant.
Now draw the dang tag already, so I can show you some massive Rams...LOL
Pretty long Rams there for sure. Thin out towards the end? The young ones yes.
There were 4 Rams with the Ram I shot. 2 were shorter / broomed heavy, so they looked massive at the end.
1 of those rams was shot the same year I harvested, it scored 165.
Look at the guys hand around the end of one horn on my Ram.
I am pretty sure the other 2 have never been shot, well perhaps that Ram that Trammer shot was one of them.
Here is the side view of my Ram, you can see that the thinning out, is not very significant.
Now draw the dang tag already, so I can show you some massive Rams...LOL
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
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Mike,
No disrespect intended at all! Your ram is killer, and I would do cartwheels if I could find one close in size. Remember, I have held your ram and I know what kind of mass he holds.
Lots of those sheep just look long to me.
As far as drawing is concerned...I am trying bro!!!
No disrespect intended at all! Your ram is killer, and I would do cartwheels if I could find one close in size. Remember, I have held your ram and I know what kind of mass he holds.
Lots of those sheep just look long to me.
As far as drawing is concerned...I am trying bro!!!
bowhunt
Long Time Member
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LB
They are longer than most other units.
I really believe this comes from the wide flare on most of the rams. They loose the need to broom.
Most all of these sheep are the result of a 1972 transplant from Nevada...so they have that wide flare gene.
This year or next...come on baby.
They are longer than most other units.
I really believe this comes from the wide flare on most of the rams. They loose the need to broom.
Most all of these sheep are the result of a 1972 transplant from Nevada...so they have that wide flare gene.
This year or next...come on baby.
Trammer
Active Member
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we are all still waiting for the numbers to be released from DWR. When it is released we can expect a mess. Rockys and Calis will be lumped in with Deserts. The data wont even be separated into units. Lots of good data like age with be removed. Utah is a joke. In other states Like Nevada you will get a timely, complete, organized summary of unit specific sheep harvest data. Even 7 months after the season has closed the Morons at Utah DWR still have no Sheep Harvest Data for us. I have made 3 requests for it myself since Feb. 1st Is there any reason the Statewide data cant be compiled and published within 30 days of the season closing?
>we are all still waiting for
>the numbers to be released
>from DWR. When it is
>released we can expect a
>mess. Rockys and Calis will
>be lumped in with Deserts.
>The data wont even be
>separated into units. Lots of
>good data like age with
>be removed. Utah is a
>joke. In other states Like
>Nevada you will get a
>timely, complete, organized summary of
>unit specific sheep harvest data.
>Even 7 months after the
>season has closed the Morons
>at Utah DWR still have
>no Sheep Harvest Data for
>us. I have made 3
>requests for it myself since
>Feb. 1st Is there any
>reason the Statewide data cant
>be compiled and published within
>30 days of the season
>closing?
Any luck with getting the data back from the UDWR Trammer?
Tallbuck1
>the numbers to be released
>from DWR. When it is
>released we can expect a
>mess. Rockys and Calis will
>be lumped in with Deserts.
>The data wont even be
>separated into units. Lots of
>good data like age with
>be removed. Utah is a
>joke. In other states Like
>Nevada you will get a
>timely, complete, organized summary of
>unit specific sheep harvest data.
>Even 7 months after the
>season has closed the Morons
>at Utah DWR still have
>no Sheep Harvest Data for
>us. I have made 3
>requests for it myself since
>Feb. 1st Is there any
>reason the Statewide data cant
>be compiled and published within
>30 days of the season
>closing?
Any luck with getting the data back from the UDWR Trammer?
Tallbuck1
Trammer
Active Member
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- 327
I havent seen a thing yet. The hunt is going to start in a month and we dont even have the green scores and harvest data from last years hunt or any survey info. When does UDWR think we could use the information? Sportsmen needed it in January. Before we applied for the draw.
Grand Slam #911
Grand Slam #911
C
catman338
Guest
i should draw a tag this year if all goes well and would like to talk to some hunters that have hunted the Zion unit about what they have seen and what they think of the unit and what they would different i have been over to look around a little and seen some rams but no hogs maybe i don't know what i am looking at thanks
Trammer
Active Member
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Catman, I have bad news and good news about the Zion unit. The good news is there are lots of sheep and lots of rams. I still think there are enough big rams in the unit for every hunter to take a book ram. I can show you photos I have taken of 4 Boone and crockett rams that got away last year. All 4 are alive and well and in the Unit. 3 of them I have seen 2 years in a row now.
The bad news is that I do not yet know of a specific ram that will outscore Casey Baughs tremendous 178 point new Utah state record...I am optimistic though...one only needs to find 1 new ram that is built like Taylor Eyres ram. It just needs to be a class 5 ram. Taylors ram is such a squasher that if it could have made it past 10 years old (it was shot as a 6 1/2 year old and made all time B&C) I think it would have made it into the 180s.
The bad news is that I do not yet know of a specific ram that will outscore Casey Baughs tremendous 178 point new Utah state record...I am optimistic though...one only needs to find 1 new ram that is built like Taylor Eyres ram. It just needs to be a class 5 ram. Taylors ram is such a squasher that if it could have made it past 10 years old (it was shot as a 6 1/2 year old and made all time B&C) I think it would have made it into the 180s.
C
catman338
Guest
trammer i live in st George and go over to the unit as much as i can after i found out i was as close to drawing a tag as i am i have been putting in for points and hunting and fishing in Alaska in the fall i should have max points but they got my once in a lifetime points mixed up with my limited entry points you think that would be easy to fix no it is not so i have 19 points 11 others had that many points pre 2014 draw the unit is a split hunt this year so it depends who puts in for what this year and how lucky i am ...but i did help on the transplant in November and the catch team told me where they seen any good rams and they sounded like they know what a good ram looks like they said the one ram the biggest they seen looked to be about a 180 i have done alot of looking for him but have not seen him that i know of i did see a big ram in the area that had one side 1/3 broke off and that could have been him i hope not any help you could give me would be very much appreciated i am starting to feel the gravity of the hunt already and i don't even have a permit yet thank allen my email is [email protected]
Trammer
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Cat man, you may be better off for points than you think. I understand (I may Be wrong. Please point it out if I am) that you will go into the draw with 20 points. As I understand it your bonus point is awarded to you for applying for that permit for that year, as part of the draw. So if you fail to draw, the report after the draw will post you with 20 points and unsuccessful. I understand that your bonus points may actually be one more than you think and that your bonus point basically may be awarded when applying, rather than after the draw, like you suspect.Can anyone who knows, help me out here?
deerslayer88
Active Member
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- 971
I know on my LE it said I had 5 points when I went in with 4 points last year so I think you are right here.
?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
Zeke
Long Time Member
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- 10,603
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-15 AT 11:25PM (MST)[p]Not correct!
You don't get a bonus point until you're unsuccessful. Not before the drawing.
You have 107 bonus points holders ahead of you and in your pool. There are currently 15 bonus tags awarded out of 35 total tags. 42%
Do the math. You've got about 7 years....average but the Zion unit will take closer to 10 years for you to be guaranteed a tag.
My son is in the same pool, so I know.
Zeke
You don't get a bonus point until you're unsuccessful. Not before the drawing.
You have 107 bonus points holders ahead of you and in your pool. There are currently 15 bonus tags awarded out of 35 total tags. 42%
Do the math. You've got about 7 years....average but the Zion unit will take closer to 10 years for you to be guaranteed a tag.
My son is in the same pool, so I know.
Zeke
Zeke
Long Time Member
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- 10,603
FYI,
There were 43 applicants remaining in the Zion unit AFTER the drawing last year who will be entering the drawing with 19 or 20 points (I think all points holders above that are gone).
There were also 21 people who will be in the same points pool this year who just bought points last year. No one knows where those 21 applicants will apply but I'd assume that at least half will hold out for the Zion unit.
That leaves a total of 54 applicants for 5 bonus tags = 10 years to be guaranteed a tag.
IF THE F & G SPLIT THE UNIT INTO EARLY AND LATE SEASONS AT A RATIO OF 5 EARLY AND 5 LATE, IT WILL EFFECTIVELY REDUCE THE BONUS TAGS TO 4 SINCE THEY ROUND DOWN WHEN THERE;S AN ODD NUMBER OF TAGS ON ANY GIVEN HUNT! BUMMER! We're already down to 42% of the total tags are bonus tags. The F&G has a nasty habit of giving odd numbers of tags in many units and this propensity adds to creep and increases the years for drawing a bonus tag since they "round down" for bonus tags.
By splitting the season and rounding down it would effectively extend the maximum time to draw out to 12+ years.
All this is relevant if you have 19 points going into the drawing this year.
Zeke
There were 43 applicants remaining in the Zion unit AFTER the drawing last year who will be entering the drawing with 19 or 20 points (I think all points holders above that are gone).
There were also 21 people who will be in the same points pool this year who just bought points last year. No one knows where those 21 applicants will apply but I'd assume that at least half will hold out for the Zion unit.
That leaves a total of 54 applicants for 5 bonus tags = 10 years to be guaranteed a tag.
IF THE F & G SPLIT THE UNIT INTO EARLY AND LATE SEASONS AT A RATIO OF 5 EARLY AND 5 LATE, IT WILL EFFECTIVELY REDUCE THE BONUS TAGS TO 4 SINCE THEY ROUND DOWN WHEN THERE;S AN ODD NUMBER OF TAGS ON ANY GIVEN HUNT! BUMMER! We're already down to 42% of the total tags are bonus tags. The F&G has a nasty habit of giving odd numbers of tags in many units and this propensity adds to creep and increases the years for drawing a bonus tag since they "round down" for bonus tags.
By splitting the season and rounding down it would effectively extend the maximum time to draw out to 12+ years.
All this is relevant if you have 19 points going into the drawing this year.
Zeke
R
ramsniper
Guest
>IF THE F & G SPLIT
>THE UNIT INTO EARLY AND
>LATE SEASONS AT A RATIO
>OF 5 EARLY AND 5
>LATE, IT WILL EFFECTIVELY REDUCE
>THE BONUS TAGS TO 4
>SINCE THEY ROUND DOWN WHEN
>THERE;S AN ODD NUMBER OF
>TAGS ON ANY GIVEN HUNT!
>BUMMER! We're already down to
>42% of the total tags
>are bonus tags. The F&G
>has a nasty habit of
>giving odd numbers of tags
>in many units and this
>propensity adds to creep and
>increases the years for drawing
>a bonus tag since they
>"round down" for bonus tags.
>
>By splitting the season and rounding
>down it would effectively extend
>the maximum time to draw
>out to 12+ years.
>All this is relevant if you
>have 19 points going into
>the drawing this year.
>Zeke
Zeke is right on the money. We asked the F&G to split the UNIT, not the SEASON. They did the opposite and now exactly what Zeke said is going to happen. If they had split the UNIT, say an East Zion and a West Zion, they could have added a tag or two for the max point guys, helped the herd, and made it easier for the biologists to manage. It would have been a win, win, win! Instead, it's just another kick in the nuts for the max point guys just like Range Creek.
Horns>antlers
>THE UNIT INTO EARLY AND
>LATE SEASONS AT A RATIO
>OF 5 EARLY AND 5
>LATE, IT WILL EFFECTIVELY REDUCE
>THE BONUS TAGS TO 4
>SINCE THEY ROUND DOWN WHEN
>THERE;S AN ODD NUMBER OF
>TAGS ON ANY GIVEN HUNT!
>BUMMER! We're already down to
>42% of the total tags
>are bonus tags. The F&G
>has a nasty habit of
>giving odd numbers of tags
>in many units and this
>propensity adds to creep and
>increases the years for drawing
>a bonus tag since they
>"round down" for bonus tags.
>
>By splitting the season and rounding
>down it would effectively extend
>the maximum time to draw
>out to 12+ years.
>All this is relevant if you
>have 19 points going into
>the drawing this year.
>Zeke
Zeke is right on the money. We asked the F&G to split the UNIT, not the SEASON. They did the opposite and now exactly what Zeke said is going to happen. If they had split the UNIT, say an East Zion and a West Zion, they could have added a tag or two for the max point guys, helped the herd, and made it easier for the biologists to manage. It would have been a win, win, win! Instead, it's just another kick in the nuts for the max point guys just like Range Creek.
Horns>antlers
