Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

[BrianID]

Those licenses were never STOLEN from residents. It was your own legislature that gave 25% of the sheep tags away. Let’s be real. They could’ve changed this law years ago if it was such an issue for so many residents.

It was probably the WYOGA that initially lobbied for a high percentage of the sheep and moose tags for nonresidents initially.

 

[Cozmo8]

And be

If memory serves correctly it was 2015 but I may be wrong. Hopefully one of our MM sheep experts has the info needed.

And before that It was $100 for a period of time.

 

[Cahunter805]

And be

And before that It was $100 for a period of time.

Correct. Remember there has been sheep points for 26 years though.

 

[Cozmo8]

Well then get off monstermuleys, wipe your face and go take care of your crying child and tell him daddy's never going to get to hunt bighorn sheep in wyoming because of the big bad Task Force.

No kids here. Just you. Who says I won’t ever hunt bighorn sheep in Wyoming? I didn’t realize you administer the tags. Who needs a tag anyway?

 

[BuzzH]

No kids here. Just you. Who says I won’t ever hunt bighorn sheep in Wyoming? I didn’t realize you administer the tags. Who needs a tag anyway?

Taking stupid to places its never been.

 

[Booner]

They WONT win...S.339....read it and weep.

Its all over...before it starts. The states have the right to discriminate against NR's any way they see fit.

Yes, you're correct, we could tell NR's to pound sand...and not offer them a single tag. Exactly like ND does with their moose permits...100% Resident allocation.

Apples and Oranges. ND moose is the comparison? WAFJ. Add up the public land in ND that is in moose country. Make sure you don’t include Indian reservations in your numbers.

 

[highfastflyer]

Any NRs who continue to whine about not going sheep hunting can borrow my Rocky Mountain Trophy Hunter Nintendo Game Boy. Besides, you don’t have to hike all the way back into the wild Wilderness where a Grizzly might eat you.

 

[Cozmo8]

Taking stupid to places its never been.

Any NRs who continue to whine about not going sheep hunting can borrow my Rocky Mountain Trophy Hunter Nintendo Game Boy. Besides, you don’t have to hike all the way back into the wild Wilderness where a Grizzly might eat you.View attachment 46007

Thank you. I spent the last weekend in the highest densities of grizzlies in Yellowstone. I only lost a leg and an arm. But what do you expect from a NR who you can’t trust in the wilderness.

 

[BuzzH]

Apples and Oranges. ND moose is the comparison? WAFJ. Add up the public land in ND that is in moose country. Make sure you don’t include Indian reservations in your numbers.

In case you missed the near 200 years of case law...land ownership has nothing to do with a State's right to manage its wildlife.

For the record...

 

[GeorgeE]

Did ND charge nonresidents $100+ for moose points for several years and then change the rules? Bait and switch is where the lawsuit will target. I agree they might not win. The lawyers are the only winners in every lawsuit. We will just have to wait and see about a lawsuit.

Nobody forced any of them to buy the points, plus no promise was given…Pretty simple!

 

[BrianID]

Nobody forced any of them to buy the points, plus no promise was given…Pretty simple!

Your right, no one forced them to buy any points. I'm glade I saw the scam and haven't been wasting my money on Wyoming Moose, sheep and goat points the last 15+ years. I do feel bad for the guys that have been scammed. It is disappointing that multiple guys on here don't seem to have any sympathy for the nonresidents that have donated hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on points in Wyoming.

 

[BuzzH]

Your right, no one forced them to buy any points. I'm glade I saw the scam and haven't been wasting my money on Wyoming Moose, sheep and goat points the last 15+ years. I do feel bad for the guys that have been scammed. It is disappointing that multiple guys on here don't seem to have any sympathy for the nonresidents that have donated hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on points in Wyoming.

You're

The goat points were probably an easy decision...since they never have offered them.

I've donated thousands to NV, UT, AZ, CO, MT, ID, NM, AK, etc. for points and application fees...no Residents from those states felt sorry for me when they changed their systems and limited me to 10% of their tags or less.

I'm really struggling to find much in the way of sympathy for NR's that have had 25% of our sheep tags for the last 26 years (27 years before the change happens). Same with having 20% of our moose tags...

 

[highfastflyer]

Thank you. I spent the last weekend in the highest densities of grizzlies in Yellowstone. I only lost a leg and an arm. But what do you expect from a NR who you can’t trust in the wilderness.

Yes it’s sad the bear only got a leg and an arm. The torso adds more sustenance.

 

[BrianID]

You're

The goat points were probably an easy decision...since they never have offered them.

I've donated thousands to NV, UT, AZ, CO, MT, ID, NM, AK, etc. for points and application fees...no Residents from those states felt sorry for me when they changed their systems and limited me to 10% of their tags or less.

I'm really struggling to find much in the way of sympathy for NR's that have had 25% of our sheep tags for the last 26 years (27 years before the change happens). Same with having 20% of our moose tags...

I was never interested in goats, so I never really looked into opportunities in Wyoming. I was really looking at starting the point game for sheep and moose in Wyoming 15 to 18 years ago but I did the math and realized that even after 20 or 30 years, I still may not have enough points to get a tag.

You are right that Wyoming has been very generous to nonresidents for decades. I can see why residents are upset with their state legislator allowing for nonresident to get so many tags for decades. Maybe that is why many of the residents have no sympathy for the nonresidents that will now come to the realization that they likely won't get a Wyoming sheep tag.

I hope you can put as much or more effort into improving habitat as you do lobbying for 90/10 split.

 

[Cahunter805]

Your right, no one forced them to buy any points. I'm glade I saw the scam and haven't been wasting my money on Wyoming Moose, sheep and goat points the last 15+ years. I do feel bad for the guys that have been scammed. It is disappointing that multiple guys on here don't seem to have any sympathy for the nonresidents that have donated hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on points in Wyoming.

If you’re referring to me I don’t really have sympathy for them. They still have all the points they spent their money on. What they now choose to do with them is their choice. I have purchased points in many states that I still have not used due to a variety of reasons but I don’t feel in any way that’s it’s a scam even when states reduced their tags or even canceled the hunt I was intending to use the points for. I’ll just find a hunt I can draw with the points I’ve accrued when the times comes that I want to burn them.

 

[highfastflyer]

I was never interested in goats, so I never really looked into opportunities in Wyoming. I was really looking at starting the point game for sheep and moose in Wyoming 15 to 18 years ago but I did the math and realized that even after 20 or 30 years, I still may not have enough points to get a tag.

You are right that Wyoming has been very generous to nonresidents for decades. I can see why residents are upset with their state legislator allowing for nonresident to get so many tags for decades. Maybe that is why many of the residents have no sympathy for the nonresidents that will now come to the realization that they likely won't get a Wyoming sheep tag.

I hope you can put as much or more effort into improving habitat as you do lobbying for 90/10 split.

Obviously you didn’t look very hard as you would have had a moose tag if you applied 18 years ago. Some applicants were awarded Moose licenses after 17 years. What a pity!!!

 

[SS!]

Thank you. I spent the last weekend in the highest densities of grizzlies in Yellowstone. I only lost a leg and an arm. But what do you expect from a NR who you can’t trust in the wilderness.

You lost your mind too. Or was that before Yellowstone?

 

[LivingTheDream]

It was probably the WYOGA that initially lobbied for a high percentage of the sheep and moose tags for nonresidents initially.

Pretty sure this is accurate. They were also the ones pushing it to the task force. The fact Sy immediately gave up on 90/10 for the big 5, tells me there is a more something more lucrative coming to outfitters. He can say it is for his grandkids but I don't believe that.

Also, you don't need max points as a non resident to draw sheep tags. If you look most of the top 100 to 150 point holders arent even putting into the draw. If you had 10 points you probably would have been in the running in 25 to 30 years (people drop out, or die, or decide the mountains are too high). There was far more attrition then just the people drawing tags. If a non resident has 20 points, 21 next year, they should have a better than average shot of drawing assuming those top guys don't decide to take any unit they can get.

 

[PLK]

90/10 was sent to the WTF by the committee. The vote was 4-1 against moving the bill forward for the session, pending the work of the task force. Get it right, the task force is working this out like the legislature wanted them to.

Tag allocation between pp/random/bonus points is still being discussed.

JM77,

You state that, “Tag allocation between pp/random/bonus points is still being discussed.”

What are bonus points? Is this some insider information about what might be in the pipeline.

 

[jm77]

JM77,

You state that, “Tag allocation between pp/random/bonus points is still being discussed.”

What are bonus points? Is this some insider information about what might be in the pipeline.

No, it was openly discussed at the TF meeting last week.

Bonus points are completely random, your name goes in the hat once for every point you have.

 

[nfh]

Just curious why non residents think residents dont deserve more opportunity? As our state grows why should a resident have to wait forever for a tag

No, it was openly discussed at the TF meeting last week.

Bonus points are completely random, your name goes in the hat once for every point you have.

This was discussed at tonight's meeting. 20 of us showed. Meeting started with 3 TF memebers and what has been discussed. Immediately the meeting went to open discussion. I spoke first about the antelope one shot. Pretty sure 19 other people had no idea what I was talking about. All 3 members were aware and took notes.

90/10 seemed to be a small discussion. Everyone was on the same page. The TF asked who supported making the big 5 a once in lifetime tag. So a show of hands only 2 people supported that.

Discussion was also on LQ tags on a waiting period, outfitter only draw, landowner tags. A huge topic was habitat about landowners paying a $1.72 a month to graze it clean. Leave nothing for game. A landowner spoke and said no we pay $30 a month. So that topic went back and forth between a few people.
Preference points were discussed as bonus, square root or keep the same, a 50/50 draw.

So basically everything thats been on these threads. Another topic was wildlife watchers getting a conversation stamp. A toll booth at the park to where per car load charge $1-5 to give back to habitat. Shed antler collecting was a big topic along with mandatory surveys. On the survey it was brought up to be more like new Mexico. If ya don't do the survey then you cant apply the next year and so on.

Finally a big topic was muzzleloader season. I highly spoke against it.

So thats a brief introduction to tonights meeting. More was said but i am not going to type it all up. Lot of it was subjects just dropped which needed to be.

I will say the TF were very friendly. They made sure to shake everyone's hand and ask who you are and why you came.

 

[BuzzH]

Just curious why non residents think residents dont deserve more opportunity? As our state grows why should a resident have to wait forever for a tag

This was discussed at tonight's meeting. 20 of us showed. Meeting started with 3 TF memebers and what has been discussed. Immediately the meeting went to open discussion. I spoke first about the antelope one shot. Pretty sure 19 other people had no idea what I was talking about. All 3 members were aware and took notes.

90/10 seemed to be a small discussion. Everyone was on the same page. The TF asked who supported making the big 5 a once in lifetime tag. So a show of hands only 2 people supported that.

Discussion was also on LQ tags on a waiting period, outfitter only draw, landowner tags. A huge topic was habitat about landowners paying a $1.72 a month to graze it clean. Leave nothing for game. A landowner spoke and said no we pay $30 a month. So that topic went back and forth between a few people.
Preference points were discussed as bonus, square root or keep the same, a 50/50 draw.

So basically everything thats been on these threads. Another topic was wildlife watchers getting a conversation stamp. A toll booth at the park to where per car load charge $1-5 to give back to habitat. Shed antler collecting was a big topic along with mandatory surveys. On the survey it was brought up to be more like new Mexico. If ya don't do the survey then you cant apply the next year and so on.

Finally a big topic was muzzleloader season. I highly spoke against it.

So thats a brief introduction to tonights meeting. More was said but i am not going to type it all up. Lot of it was subjects just dropped which needed to be.

I will say the TF were very friendly. They made sure to shake everyone's hand and ask who you are and why you came.

Thanks for showing up...just got off the phone with a friend of mine that attended.

He had a similar report.

 

[BrianID]

nfh,

Thank you for the update. The online survey like NM would seem like a logical idea. Inexpensive to implement and those that have to pay a late fee will likely cover the cost of the system. We have been beating this dead horse for over 300 posts now.

 

[PLK]

No, it was openly discussed at the TF meeting last week.

Bonus points are completely random, your name goes in the hat once for every point you have.

JM77,

Thanks for the information.

Are these potential changes to the nonresident point system going to apply to the resident point system? For example, if the allocation is modified to 90/10 with a 50/50 split between random/preference points for nonresidents, would the same 50/50 split apply to residents?

 

[nfh]

Thanks for showing up...just got off the phone with a friend of mine that attended.

He had a similar report.

I am forgetting a few things. Pretty sure the TF memebers were confused and ask the individuals to summit comments.

A big issue was microphones. Wasnt working the best. So the people that cant speak loud i couldnt get much on what they had to say. A particular individual spoke and was very passionate on what he had to say on how great wyoming is.

Lee Livingston would like to hold another meeting in powell in maybe 6 months. They also discussed other small towns in the future in the big horn basin but not sure. They said Cheyenne only had 3 people that showed up. Rock springs generated around 40 people.

I feel like more could get involved. One issue I saw was the local paper brought it up with time and place but no date..

 

[jm77]

I am forgetting a few things. Pretty sure the TF memebers were confused and ask the individuals to summit comments.

A big issue was microphones. Wasnt working the best. So the people that cant speak loud i couldnt get much on what they had to say. A particular individual spoke and was very passionate on what he had to say on how great wyoming is.

Lee Livingston would like to hold another meeting in powell in maybe 6 months. They also discussed other small towns in the future in the big horn basin but not sure. They said Cheyenne only had 3 people that showed up. Rock springs generated around 40 people.

I feel like more could get involved. One issue I saw was the local paper brought it up with time and place but no date..

Thanks for the report Michael and for being there.

 

[mulecreek]

I am forgetting a few things. Pretty sure the TF memebers were confused and ask the individuals to summit comments.

A big issue was microphones. Wasnt working the best. So the people that cant speak loud i couldnt get much on what they had to say. A particular individual spoke and was very passionate on what he had to say on how great wyoming is.

Lee Livingston would like to hold another meeting in powell in maybe 6 months. They also discussed other small towns in the future in the big horn basin but not sure. They said Cheyenne only had 3 people that showed up. Rock springs generated around 40 people.

I feel like more could get involved. One issue I saw was the local paper brought it up with time and place but no date..

Thanks for the update. The local public meetings are a good place for people to get their ideas and thoughts made know to the TF members. This is the right time and place for that. Don't like that the first 4 hours of the July 8th TF meeting turned into an airing of grievances from the public. Wasted a bunch of time that could have been spent on the task at hand. Sounds like the chairman recognized this and hopefully will control the format a little tighter. I left RS at 5 am just so I could hear how we need to kill more black bears and coyotes.

 

[BuzzH]

Thanks for the update. The local public meetings are a good place for people to get their ideas and thoughts made know to the TF members. This is the right time and place for that. Don't like that the first 4 hours of the July 8th TF meeting turned into an airing of grievances from the public. Wasted a bunch of time that could have been spent on the task at hand. Sounds like the chairman recognized this and hopefully will control the format a little tighter. I left RS at 5 am just so I could hear how we need to kill more black bears and coyotes.

If the best hunter in Wyoming would only remember to buy a bear tag next time....

I agree on the time being used for task force work and to make recommendations. That first 4 hours was ridiculous.

 

[Mbogo]

That's exactly what I'm thinking about.

I apply in most all the Western States, where, as a NR, I'm allocated from 0-10% of the available tags.

I'm fine with that and I'm just happy that those States allow me to even apply for tags that some of their resident hunters very likely will never draw.

It's totally appropriate that Residents of Wyoming keep 90% of the allocation for the Residents that live here...its the same standard as every other State, including Colorado enjoys.

The state I live in allows non-residents to apply equally with residents for OIL tags, including sheep. There is no non-resident cap, by percentage or quantity, on how many they can draw in a year.
So at your next meeting are you going to argue for reciprocity for situations like this?
Hardly.
You pick and choose your examples to fit your narrative.

 

[Bookhead]

The state I live in allows non-residents to apply equally with residents for OIL tags, including sheep. There is no non-resident cap, by percentage or quantity, on how many they can draw in a year.
So at your next meeting are you going to argue for reciprocity for situations like this?
Hardly.
You pick and choose your examples to fit your narrative.

And what state is that?

 

[Mbogo]

Washington
30 mature ram tags . . . and you and your non-resident friends can draw every single one of them.
Equal opportunity for all. What a concept?

 

[BigChiefJ]

The state I live in allows non-residents to apply equally with residents for OIL tags, including sheep. There is no non-resident cap, by percentage or quantity, on how many they can draw in a year.
So at your next meeting are you going to argue for reciprocity for situations like this?
Hardly.
You pick and choose your examples to fit your narrative.I

Texas is the same.

 

[DH56]

Equal Opportunity in Ohio(One of the top 5 Whitetail States in the Country for Big Bucks) allows any non-resident ability to buy a whitetail tag OTC, there is no tag limit for NR or Resident except you are only allowed one Buck a year. NR Licenses are $180.96 and a Deer tag is $76.96. That Tag allows you an either sex whitetail. OTC Turkey Tags works the same as well.

Technically all hunting and fishing licenses are OTC for all.

 

[Booner]

Equal Opportunity in Ohio(One of the top 5 Whitetail States in the Country for Big Bucks) allows any non-resident ability to buy a whitetail tag OTC, there is no tag limit for NR or Resident except you are only allowed one Buck a year. NR Licenses are $180.96 and a Deer tag is $76.96. That Tag allows you an either sex whitetail. OTC Turkey Tags works the same as well.

Technically all hunting and fishing licenses are OTC for all.

The anointed one will be silent on responding to this. It doesn’t fit in with his narrative.

 

[highfastflyer]

Equal Opportunity in Ohio(One of the top 5 Whitetail States in the Country for Big Bucks) allows any non-resident ability to buy a whitetail tag OTC, there is no tag limit for NR or Resident except you are only allowed one Buck a year. NR Licenses are $180.96 and a Deer tag is $76.96. That Tag allows you an either sex whitetail. OTC Turkey Tags works the same as well.

Technically all hunting and fishing licenses are OTC for all.

Many areas are General license in Wyoming for turkey and Region A, which has far more public land than likely all of the public lands in the whole state of Ohio in just that region alone has great deer hunting for both whitetail and muleys which most years you can draw with Zero points. Not bad mouthing Ohio as I know it’s a solid whitetail trophy producer but the opportunity doesn’t really compare when you look at Sheep, goats, bison, bear, buffalo, elk, mule deer, antelope, wolves, mountain lions and the amount of public land in Wyoming.

 

[nfh]

Equal Opportunity in Ohio(One of the top 5 Whitetail States in the Country for Big Bucks) allows any non-resident ability to buy a whitetail tag OTC, there is no tag limit for NR or Resident except you are only allowed one Buck a year. NR Licenses are $180.96 and a Deer tag is $76.96. That Tag allows you an either sex whitetail. OTC Turkey Tags works the same as well.

Technically all hunting and fishing licenses are OTC for all.

But does ohio have the big 5?

 

[BuzzH]

Equal Opportunity in Ohio(One of the top 5 Whitetail States in the Country for Big Bucks) allows any non-resident ability to buy a whitetail tag OTC, there is no tag limit for NR or Resident except you are only allowed one Buck a year. NR Licenses are $180.96 and a Deer tag is $76.96. That Tag allows you an either sex whitetail. OTC Turkey Tags works the same as well.

Technically all hunting and fishing licenses are OTC for all.

I don't care what Ohio does...their state and their resources.

If they want to limit NR's more then they should.

 

[BuzzH]

Washington
30 mature ram tags . . . and you and your non-resident friends can draw every single one of them.
Equal opportunity for all. What a concept?

Set aside 25% of those tags for strictly NR's and you'll maybe have a case...

 

[DH56]

PA Elk Drawing- NR's have equal Opportunity for the annual 3 season Elk Drawing....

"Non Residents have an equal Opportunity in the drawing. If Drawn a Pennsylvania Resident May Purchase a License for $25; Non Residents $250.00"

Elk

read.nxtbook.com

 

[treedagain]

Set aside 25% of those tags for strictly NR's and you'll maybe have a case...

Don't try and show Buzzz a chance of a 100% NR draw it does not fit his narrative.

 

[highfastflyer]

PA Elk Drawing- NR's have equal Opportunity for the annual 3 season Elk Drawing....

"Non Residents have an equal Opportunity in the drawing. If Drawn a Pennsylvania Resident May Purchase a License for $25; Non Residents $250.00"

Elk

read.nxtbook.com

Good luck in the lottery and its so Progressive for young hunters with a point system utilised since 2003 for the only 164 total tags. If you want to go elk hunting every year come out to Wyoming and go an an antler-less elk hunt. If you want to play the lottery keep trying Pennsylvania or why not just put it all on black in Vegas, if you win then go hunt in style fully guided.