WY proposal on increasing pref.point fees

[ColoradoBob]

What's your opinion on WY proposal to increase the preference point fee from $7 to $75. Seems like a little to large of an increase to me. Seems like most areas takes years of getting points before you can hope of drawing. I need to look at the website & see if I can draw with 6. If not---I'll probably pass on the WY moose.

 

[muzzhunter]

Yeah I agree, I think it's pretty steep for something that will probably take several years to draw. Too rich for a poor man like me.

 

[ElmerFudd]

I might hold out for the sheep, but that combined with the requirement for a guide in wilderness areas, and the tag price all together will make me fold. For $7 a year, it was worth building points just to wait and see if they ever would change the required guide law. I am one off the top, looks like about eight years to get in the top pool for the units I want and could have a decent chance at a ram outside the wilderness areas.

And lots of moose people will either get into the draw or fold too. I bet drawing a moose will be tough next year if you are not ahead of the 6 point pool pack started with the $7 point.

 

[bpatterson]

The best thing to do is write in your comments to WG&F Dept. Comments will be accepted until June 17 to be heard at the July 12-13 meeting in Rawlins. $7 ti $75 Holy moose muffins batman thats huge----do you suppose those boys would still be drinking Coors if it went from $4.99 to $53.39 a six pack? The last non-res moose tag I got in 95 was $750, now thats up to $1,213! Let me say that again $1,213 dollars to hunt a moose. Are we nuts? Everything needs to increase some but this is outta line. Hunting is getting cost prohibitive for many, I would put myself in the middle of the pack finacially and I can't afford this kind of increases----how about the average Joe? $40 for a point on deer, elk and antelope is also the highest around.

Write to the commision and vioce your concerns. Mail to Wyoming G&F Dept.- Regulations, 3030 Energy Lane, Suite 100, Casper WY 82604

 

[Mule_Deer_Crazy]

It seems ridiculous when you're used to paying $7 to play the game, but you have to dump around $150 to play the NV deer or elk game (as non-residnt that is). You want to play ID you have to buy a license also, the better part of $150. And there's lots of people playing those states! I think the harder part to swallow is the fact that people started playing when it was $7. If we started when it was already $75 it wouldn't seem so shocking.

The hardest part is we have to be able to sell our wives on it, while still passing the red face test! The line I keep using with my wife is "Yes honey, I know it seems like a lot of money, but it would cost me $7,500 to go moose hunting in AK! And there ain't no way that's happening!" She seems to be much happier with me putting in for WY.

Now if I could just figure out how to sell her on the state of AK... or sell her to the state of AK (just kidding, she's the only one that puts elk meat in the freezer around here)!

 

[mdbrown]

i think the increase is a good idea i agree with mule-deer-crazy

 

[m1fan]

I hate it... I had been buying them for my kids but have to reconsider.

 

[boneaddict]

They were nice when they were cheap, but why shouldn't they get into the money game like every other state. It seems that all of them are going to this buy the license thing first then try to apply. Hell, to even apply to Idaho over the internet costs you like 60+ dollars just in fees.

 

[RamDreamer]

m1fan,

You bring up an excellent point. May I suggest you remind Wyoming of what they are doing to the youth side of it? June 17, 2005 is the deadline for comments on this nonresident preference point proposals. Send comments by writing:
WGFD
3030 Energy Lane
Casper, WY 82604

 

[Triple_BB]

I'd be surprised if writing the G & F will get you much. Most residents support the increased fee's if it means they won't have to pay more for their licenses. Then you have guys like me writing our elected representatives asking them to support the increase. Additionally, you have the outfitters association also supporting the measure. They're a powerful lobbying group in this state. They know if more of you guys fold due to cost, their well to do clients will have better chances to draw tags. Like anything else these days, you have to pay to play.

 

[dwalton]

I think we can all agree that we have to pay to play, but a 1071% increase in a fee is an obscene gouging! Triple_BB, before you tell your officials to bend us over, maybe you should think about what you'd do if you had children you were buying points for. Perhaps the G&F would be open to the suggestion of youth bonus points (14-18 yrs old), $14 (a 100% increase). To price the younger people out of the game seems down right unethical and short-sighted!

 

[ElmerFudd]

That is what I hate most about points systems. They are for the long haul, yet rules change yearly. This, and AZ's huge proposed price increases (about ten fold for nothhern deer and elk) may put people out who were buying the licenses and points under the assumption that price increases would be reasonable. At least ion WY you would still be out only about $150 total at this point, if you were in for the start of moose and sheep. In AZ, you might be out ten times that much. Plus, they may change or eliminate the whole points system in the future when enough have not's complain loudly enough. So it may be all for not. At least if the investment is not that big, it would not be that bad, but imagine having $1500+ into a points system, and one day, poof, it is gone.

 

[RamDreamer]

Triple_BB,

You said: "Then you have guys like me writing our elected representatives asking them to support the increase."

Can you educate us on why you'd write your elected officials regards a piece of legislation which was already passed in to law in 2004? I don't understand the logic. This is no longer pending legislation but a purely Game and Fish Department matter at this point.

 

[Lien2]

RamDreamer -
Good question for Triple_BB, I'm waiting for an answer from him as well?!

I don't mind paying the increased fee, that is if I would EVER get a tag. It's a little disheartening knowing you have to pay that much money with little or no chance of ever being drawn. $7 didn't bother me at all.......$75 will make me start to wonder!

Lien2

 

[RamDreamer]

LAST EDITED ON May-23-05 AT 09:13AM (MST)[p]Lien2,

Yes, it's interesting that this whole thing was proposed as a money maker for the Game and Fish Department. Problem is, no where can I find what their data is on projected drop out of the program. Colorado did those projections for the NR increases about 5 years ago now, as well as for the current resident increases which just passed recently.

Additionally, reading the history of the bill, it got no support in 2003's Wyoming legislature but passed through like a breeze in 2004. I wonder if there was a lobbying effort at the time due to it looking like Arizona was going to lose their appeal in court or something (thus, did the "anti-nonresident" sentiment rule the day?).

 

[Lien2]

You wouldn't think WY proposed the increases WITHOUT figuring in the projected drop out would you?! That would almost be suicide, of course for every one NR that will buy a PP, at least 9 would have to drop out for them to lose money if they use the $75 fee amount.

Lien2

 

[Triple_BB]

Easy, my house rep is actively involved with G & F doings & happenings. Since he's a bit closer to the director and commissioner's than myself, I never hesitate to write him about hunting issues. I sent him several e-mails regarding this matter and others during February's legislative session when he wanted to know my thoughts on a number of hunting topic's. Where the G & F screwed up was, they should've started application fee's years ago and increased them annually at $3 or so a year. Like I've said before, its all about priorities and savings. When I goat hunted area 48 last year I saw more out of state camps with four wheelers and campers than you could count. Same in my deer area. Yet some of us didn't have any wheelers or campers because we have financial priorities elsewhere...

 

[dwalton]

Triple BB,

I think it is fairly clear your priority is to have the non-residents foot the bill and pass the savings on to you.

 

[ramslam]

I don't even apply in Wyoming because I don't have the vacation time (I'm a teacher) if I did draw but I have to comment on this. I think the vision of many of these state agencies is no worse than the vision of anti-hunting groups. In the end regardless if its PETA or game commissions that rule, I won't be able to hunt. I have no problem with annual increases as obviously the cost of doing business increases...but 1000%??? Get real Wyoming. Get real Arizona. The reality is (IMO) what are these states accomplishing with this money??? Conservation groups are funding most of the projects that reallllly help wildlife. It took CAFNAWS to fork up some cash for a survey to open a new unit and 3 new permits. If CA F&G would have had that $5-$10k extra in the budget would they have paid for the survey?? I doubt it. I'm right here in the infamous Hells Canyon area with the most labor intensive wild sheep management plan anywhere, but it took me a whopping two tanks of diesel and a six pack to think "Hey lets have a raffle and take one of these old rams." Those are just two examples I'm sure we could fill this thread with other examples as well.

States have taken on the strategy of the anti's...divide and conquer. Now, instead of PETA taking on bow hunters its AZFG vs. out-of-staters or WYFG vs. out-of-staters or even worse rich vs. poor. Its time to look at the big picture not just how each of us will get better odds for a trophy permit. If I had kids of hunting age I would be sick. Im sick about this anyway.

I shall retire from my soap box,

for now.

I

 

[dwalton]

Ramslam,
Outstanding post! The fall-out from this will be huge, with all of losing something in the process. The trickle-down effect will also hurt FNAWS and other associations. Prime example: If Wyoming charges this amount for points it will cost my wife and I an extra $500. Couple that with Arizona's $185, and now I'm looking at almost $700. Money in my household is a finite resource. In order to apply, I'll have to give something up. I'll probably have to start missing NBU banquets, the FNAWS convention, and drop a membership in a conservation organization. We've got to stop this slippery slope that we're headed down, or we could lose hunting in the span of one generation. Not sure how we can get this genie back into the bottle, but I'm open to any suggestions.

 

[ColoradoBob]

I mailed my letter to the WY fish & game today. I don't hold much faith in it. I think it's the Golden rule here in effect. "He who has the Gold--makes the rules" CB

 

[Warren]

Bottom line----will this greatly increase my chances of drawing a tag? It may be time to take a long look at some of the states I'm applying to. Here is my outlay for license this year:

Mississippi (home) $40
Georgia (parents live on 144 acres) $200
Arizona (points only) $130
Nevada (deer tag!) $400 I think
Kansas $400

This doesn't count all the states that charge a few bucks for a draw or a preference point. It is getting a bit crazy. I'm just hoping to draw one sheep tag before I get to old to climb the mountain.

 

[Cowkiller]

The increased fees for preference points are just another attempt to weed out hunters of average means in order to increase business for outfitters. I don't mind paying a hefty fee for a sheep tag but paying for points is paying for nothing. Most people who purchase points will never draw a tag. It seems that in today's world of big game hunting money talks and most of us have will just have to watch trophy hunting on video. The vast majority of big game hunters are injured by this crap. If only the sleeping giant would wake up and throw it's weight around every time the commercial interests try to take something from the public.

Guess what. Colorado is on the verge of taking a percentage of all limited draw tags for a guaranteed outfitter quota and increased quotas for landowners. It's unfortunate that the average hunter has to fight a defensive battle all the time just to keep things fair.

 

[BearBow]

The thing about this that really pisses me off is I have been applying for a ram & moose tag for my oldest son for 7 years as a gift for his college graduation, or thereafter when he could draw and be done with school. That plan is out the window now because I am not wealthy enough to participate in this scam. TIME was stolen from me. I could have fronted the money and been building points in Colorado or somewhere else for him instead. I wonder if now Utah will do the same for him.

Hunting for the wealthy only is our future, and it's the fault of those of us hunters who are too selfish to complain to our own state legislators, choosing instead short term personal monetary gain. But what a price in the long run. Screwing each other from out-of-state opportunities for our own kids, unless you are wealthy. It is the residents that need to look at the big picture and put a stop to this nonsense. Only the wealthy win.

 

[PronghornHunter]

I can remember my dad saying some thirty years ago, "Son...in fifty years most people will no longer be able to hunt because it will be set up for the rich only." If he were still around today he would see that it is taking a lot less time than what he thought.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree that fees are getting out of hand...no question.

But, at the same time, I dont think Wyoming is out of hand. Its just that a bunch of people have been taking the cheap way into gaining points. Think of it this way, you've been getting a bargain for years, time to up the ante.

I'm not rich, but I still apply for sheep, elk, deer, moose, goat, etc. in several states. In a typical year, I have hunting licenses in Idaho, Nevada, and Arizona that are all over $100 and required to even apply. I have goals and I'm not going to let a few hundred dollars get in the way of applying for tags. I view the money spent as a contribution to better hunting.

Its all about priorities and where they lie with each person. Think about what you can buy with $75 today. Also think about the good that will come out of your $75 fee that goes toward game management.

The average hunter spends a ton of money on ammo, premium bullets, expensive firearms, atv's, horses, spotting scopes, binoculars, etc. etc. etc. Then whine when they have to shell out a few bucks for a tag...never could understand the logic.

Shovel sidewalks after work for the extra $75...