Wolf release map.

All of you guys that let SS get under your skin are weak and laughable!
That is his motif!
Might want to try a PM as I have. He’s a good guy according to when we have discussed a thing or two.
Move your bitching BS back to the Utah forum where it’s commonplace.
 
Since were on the subject of grazing public lands and the 'necessity of it to feed america', here is a list of the top 10 beef producing states in the country:

"The ten states with the most cattle, by number of cows per state, are :

1. Texas – 4,475,000
2. Oklahoma – 2,131,000
3. Missouri – 1,941,000
4. Nebraska – 1,832,000
5. South Dakota – 1,610,000
6. Kansas – 1,422,000
7. Montana – 1,299,000
8. Kentucky – 966,000
9. North Dakota – 945,000
10. Iowa – 925,000"


Only 1 of the top 10 states (Montana) has a decent amount of public land that is likely necessary for the sustainability of the cow/calf operations in the western portion of the state.

Wyoming, the state most "lay people" probably think of when they think of open range cattle grazing ranks 14th with 680,000 cows, barely putting it over the national average of 608,000 cows per state.

HOT TAKE ALERT: The reality is, public land grazing is basically just a state sponsored welfare program for mountain state producers, who dont even contribute that much to the total cattle production of the country. I thought if a business model required government assistance it should be allowed to fail in the free market?? The irony of this overwhelming.
 
An allotment is a binding agreement between the holder and the government. cancel culture doesn't work in the rural west the ranches are on solid ground legally.

What I will agree with is the grazing fees should be closer to private land lease rates. in this area summer pasture rents for $25-$35 depending on the range. USFS and BLM are still around $2.88 per unit last I looked. so private fees run about 1000% more than fed fees. the allotment holders have a right to the grazing , they don't have a right to graze for basically nothing.

if you really want to be pissed, consider the fact that many years the grazing drought assistance payments pay several times more than the grazing fees. so you're actually paying them to graze public lands, after you subsidized the grazing to begin with. I have a bit of a problem with this, especially if you're a producer paying private fees.
 
Togwotee said:
An allotment is a binding agreement between the holder and the government. cancel culture doesn't work in the rural west the ranches are on solid ground legally.

What I will agree with is the grazing fees should be closer to private land lease rates. in this area summer pasture rents for $25-$35 depending on the range. USFS and BLM are still around $2.88 per unit last I looked. so private fees run about 1000% more than fed fees. the allotment holders have a right to the grazing , they don't have a right to graze for basically nothing.

if you really want to be pissed, consider the fact that many years the grazing drought assistance payments pay several times more than the grazing fees. so you're actually paying them to graze public lands, after you subsidized the grazing to begin with. I have a bit of a problem with this, especially if you're a producer paying private fees.
Click to expand...
Yep, you are absolutely right. If users of the public land, be they livestockmen, or any other users, paid the same or at least close to what they would pay to use private land, the Western States would back off on demanding taking over management from the Feds. Either that or require the other States to pay the Western State’s a far higher rate than they are now, to keep public land public. If a guy from Florida or Michigan, or Alabama wants to keep these lands public, they need to pony up more annual taxes to equalize the lose to the Western States by giving us a pittance in equalization compensation. If it’s public, and I want it to be, we all need to pay more to keep it public.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
 
Aside from all the obvious issues, its really pretty amazing how much country those animals have covered. They were dropped in an area that is currently loaded with deer and elk (and also small cactus, my dog can attest to this) but appear to have moved on from that area (thankfully for me, for selfish reasons). Guess they dont like the cactus, cuz theres enough deer and elk down there to last awhile.

Also, despite being drugged and relocated, 2 of them appear to be headed back to Oregon. Likely shot if they go into wyoming, recapture agreement with UT. Thatll be something else, if they make it to UT and we bring them back....🤡🤡🤡
 
TKMule - Can you post the link on the Wyo guys that got 4 of 5 from the Moffat pack and 2 of 5 from North Park- I'm not seeing any info on it..

There was a nice article today in the Cowboy State Daily and it seems they are pretty on top of this to date but didn't mention any info like this.
 
Thill said:
TKMule - Can you post the link on the Wyo guys that got 4 of 5 from the Moffat pack and 2 of 5 from North Park- I'm not seeing any info on it..

There was a nice article today in the Cowboy State Daily and it seems they are pretty on top of this to date but didn't mention any info like this.
Click to expand...

www.coloradoan.com

Two Colorado wolves wandering close to Wyoming border, where killing them is legal

Killing wolves is legal in Wyoming. As Colorado's wolves wander close to the border, here's Colorado Parks and Wildlife's approach to the situation.
www.coloradoan.com

about half way thru the article. theyre claiming 3-4 from the north park pack and 4 from the "former" moffat pack.
 
Bluehair said:
I hate cows, but they’re the closest thing to fire suppression we have here. I wish it was elk or deer but that isn’t the case.
Click to expand...

The Norwood folks from the BLM and FS keep a lid on new starts, so this isn’t an accurate statement. With the exception of Bull Draw there hasn’t been anything to mention. And the bull draw and mailbox fires look fantastic.
 
Here you go. Can't confirm, but the facebook is saying 2 CO wolves were shot today in Wyoming.

image0.jpeg
 
AZGuy said:
The Norwood folks from the BLM and FS keep a lid on new starts, so this isn’t an accurate statement. With the exception of Bull Draw there hasn’t been anything to mention. And the bull draw and mailbox fires look fantastic.
Click to expand...
Exactly which part isn’t accurate?

Fires have a lot more to do with water than they do with fs crews piling up sticks. I’m not ready to credit forest health to the bureaucrats just yet.
 
I hope that report is correct. However, knowing how facebook and the internet works, 75% chance that is not true. If it was, theyd make a point to SHOW TO COLLAR. Come on cowboy state, show me the collar.
 
Put the collar on a train that was headed for California like the boys up north did.

That had the man scratching his head for a while....lol
 
That glimmer is good news. This is all just insulting. Last I check the Gov is supposed to represent all constituents, not just the ones he likes or gives bj’s to. This is an insult and open slap in the face to most of the state. Why can’t he be the “libertarian businessman” he claims to be and run the cpw as such. I mean if it is run correctly it brings in a lot of money for the state
 
I don't believe it. Smoke screen. Can't be trusted. He does not govern. He strong arms dictates even with our state legislatures.
 
Bluehair said:
Exactly which part isn’t accurate?

Fires have a lot more to do with water than they do with fs crews piling up sticks. I’m not ready to credit forest health to the bureaucrats just yet.
Click to expand...
You said “cows are the closest thing we have to fire suppression”
I said your comment is not accurate and it’s not. And I don’t think the flannel wearing hippy smoking a joint on the way to the FS building daily is the bureaucrat but that’s another subject. We do have suppression resouces in the Southwest and some of the best in the country.
 
AZGuy said:
You said “cows are the closest thing we have to fire suppression”
I said your comment is not accurate and it’s not. And I don’t think the flannel wearing hippy smoking a joint on the way to the FS building daily is the bureaucrat but that’s another subject. We do have suppression resouces in the Southwest and some of the best in the country.
Click to expand...
I politely disagree with you AZGuy. Livestock grazing is about all we have in our tool bag here in Colorado that is permitted. What is Az doing that is better?
 
tailchasers said:
I politely disagree with you AZGuy. Livestock grazing is about all we have in our tool bag here in Colorado that is permitted. What is Az doing that is better?
Click to expand...
Are you talking about fire fighting resources? If so we are talking about two different things. I’m talking about rangeland management. I suppose I should have said fuel suppression.

But in case we are talking about the same thing, I’ve noticed the HUGE increase in logging activity as well.
 
Bluehair said:
Are you talking about fire fighting resources? If so we are talking about two different things. I’m talking about rangeland management. I suppose I should have said fuel suppression.

But in case we are talking about the same thing, I’ve noticed the HUGE increase in logging activity as well.
Click to expand...
Fuels suppression is a here I'm at. No way is a cow taking down an adult tree. ✌️
 
Bluehair said:
Are you talking about fire fighting resources? If so we are talking about two different things. I’m talking about rangeland management. I suppose I should have said fuel suppression.

But in case we are talking about the same thing, I’ve noticed the HUGE increase in logging activity as well.
Click to expand...
No suppression and fuels management are two different things. You said said suppression, your neck of the woods has good folks that put fire out.
 
AZGuy said:
No suppression and fuels management are two different things. You said said suppression, your neck of the woods has good folks that put fire out.
Click to expand...
I wasn’t talking about firefighters; I should have been clearer.

Wildland firefighting is a pretty popular career choice for the kids around here anymore. Several of the local football players/wrestlers that I know are out there lugging that crap up and down the hills.
 
IMG_1786.jpeg


I am going to have this picture made into a poster and hold it in front of me when I hunt in CO. Safer than blaze orange. No one can shoot me then!
 
probably a couple of old lady wolves in their Subarus….

Suggested an edit for old fox, they suggest the info is released late to protect from tourist, hunters and the public, went ahead and let them know the word they are looking for is poachers…
 
coloradoman said:
Headed toward Boulder!!!! Maybe the others will follow.

kdvr.com

Gray wolves map shows growing movement across Colorado

A Colorado Parks and Wildlife map shows the tracked wolves have expanded their movement further into Rio Blanco County and toward Boulder County.
kdvr.com kdvr.com
Click to expand...

As a veterinarian, I will be sad when pets start getting eaten by wolves. But not sad for their owners that voted this in. It remains to be seen how this will play out. Unlike Wyoming/ Montana/Idaho, in Colorado there are very few places where there aren’t people in substantial numbers even in the mountains. As far as I am concerned, the sooner they get to places like Boulder the better.
 
It’s easy for them so far. In the winter, wolves have the advantage. Not to mention the tasty cattle they have been served up. And they currently have little competition. Will have to be a bit more wolves and game dispersed in summer range before they start eating pets. But who knows, there are so many people these days that hike the back country with their pets…
 
txhunter58 said:
As a veterinarian, I will be sad when pets start getting eaten by wolves. But not sad for their owners that voted this in. It remains to be seen how this will play out. Unlike Wyoming/ Montana/Idaho, in Colorado there are very few places where there aren’t people in substantial numbers even in the mountains. As far as I am concerned, the sooner they get to places like Boulder the better.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Domestic cats and dogs have proven to be the prey of choice here in Montana. mtmuley
 
coloradoman said:
www.skyhinews.com

Parks and Wildlife confirms calf killed by wolf in Grand County after finding ‘tooth rake marks’ and wolf tracks

Colorado Parks and Wildlife confirmed a wolf killed a calf in Grand County on Tuesday, marking the first depredation event since wolves were formally reintroduced in the state. “The field investigation found multiple tooth rake...
www.skyhinews.com www.skyhinews.com
Click to expand...
And theres only 10 released so far of the target of 45-60 and no plan to remove from protection till it hits 150 for 2yrs or 200 at any point. Should be interesting, likely won't hear about it on news channels in areas that voted for this steaming pile.
 
scpaisley said:
And theres only 10 released so far of the target of 45-60 and no plan to remove from protection till it hits 150 for 2yrs or 200 at any point. Should be interesting, likely won't hear about it on news channels in areas that voted for this steaming pile.
Click to expand...
There is actually no plan to remove protections from wolves. That’s a big part of the issue with it. They can hit 5,000 strong and still be unhuntable
 
Steamboat radio is reporting that 2 of the released collared wolves have joined up with the 2 remaining north park wolves. Calving season is about to get interesting.
 
Mallardsx2 said:
Hopefully the people who love to just sit back and b!tch about stuff actually get off their a$$ and go vote this time....
Click to expand...
I think many of the people you hear vocalizing are for sure voting problem is wave after wave of the Cali- locusts that pour in and the vote for the same people that “ruined” their old state
 
TKMulePacker said:
Since were on the subject of grazing public lands and the 'necessity of it to feed america', here is a list of the top 10 beef producing states in the country:

"The ten states with the most cattle, by number of cows per state, are :

1. Texas – 4,475,000
2. Oklahoma – 2,131,000
3. Missouri – 1,941,000
4. Nebraska – 1,832,000
5. South Dakota – 1,610,000
6. Kansas – 1,422,000
7. Montana – 1,299,000
8. Kentucky – 966,000
9. North Dakota – 945,000
10. Iowa – 925,000"


Only 1 of the top 10 states (Montana) has a decent amount of public land that is likely necessary for the sustainability of the cow/calf operations in the western portion of the state.

Wyoming, the state most "lay people" probably think of when they think of open range cattle grazing ranks 14th with 680,000 cows, barely putting it over the national average of 608,000 cows per state.

HOT TAKE ALERT: The reality is, public land grazing is basically just a state sponsored welfare program for mountain state producers, who dont even contribute that much to the total cattle production of the country. I thought if a business model required government assistance it should be allowed to fail in the free market?? The irony of this overwhelming.
Click to expand...
Problem with those numbers you are not accounting for the type of animals. Nearly all of WY cattle are cow calf operations. We do not produce beef here… We have cows and calves. Then w to finish and grow those cows and calves we ship them to other states for finishing. Like TX, OK, etc. While the number of total beef in WY is not near what it is in the states listed. Get rid of the Cows in Way and the states listed will drop.
 
TKMulePacker said:
Steamboat radio is reporting that 2 of the released collared wolves have joined up with the 2 remaining north park wolves. Calving season is about to get interesting.
Click to expand...
All the while our governor and his staff along with CPW sit back and watch it happen and leave our hands tied, while telling us wolves will be wolves and this isn’t exactly unexpected!
 
They’re sneakin closer and closer to Vernal :oops: Don’t tell EA :ROFLMAO:

CPW releases updated collared gray wolf activity map; launches depredation report webpage​

3c0d3976-cb11-fece-f805-a401e0a74a7d.jpg
Collared gray wolf activity recorded by Colorado Parks and Wildlife from March 26 to April 23, 2024. A larger map is linked below and available at cpw.state.co.us.
DENVER—An updated map was published today on Colorado Parks and Wildlife’s (CPW) website to continue informing the public, recreationists, and livestock producers on where collared wolves have been in the past month. CPW will update this map with new information monthly to reflect data for the past 30 days or so, produced on the fourth Wednesday of every month.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife - Collared Gray Wolf Activity Map - April 2024

CPW also launched a new Gray Wolf Depredation Report webpage to inform the public about confirmed livestock depredations by wolves in Colorado. This page will be updated each time CPW staff investigates and confirms a new depredation event.

Updates:
  • This map was created using GPS data from all functioning collars in Colorado.
  • Two of the ten collars placed on wolves translocated in December are no longer providing signals to CPW biologists. This includes the collar that failed in March and an additional collar that was partially functional in March but has since failed. The animals with the failed collars are traveling with other animals with functional collars, which currently allows CPW to monitor those animals. CPW has confirmed that the animals with the malfunctioning collars are still alive based on visual confirmation from an airplane.
  • Movements of reintroduced wolves have been confirmed in watersheds east of the Continental Divide and onto the Front Range.
  • This will be the last press release announcing Collared Gray Wolf Activity Map updates. The website will continue to be updated with recent activity on the fourth Wednesday of every month. Sign up for CPW’s Gray Wolf Reintroduction Enews to stay informed.
  • Statement from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service: On April 18, 2024, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service became aware of a deceased gray wolf in Larimer County, CO. As a federally listed species under the Endangered Species Act, the Service is investigating and has sent the carcass for a necropsy to determine the cause of death. Initial evidence suggests that this wolf likely died of natural causes, but a final determination will not be made until the necropsy is completed. This wolf was one of the ten recently released by Colorado Parks and Wildlife in December 2023, and the Service is working cooperatively with CPW in our investigation. No additional details are available at this time. This is an active investigation, and all inquiries on this topic should go to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service PIO Joseph Szuszwalak ([email protected]).
 
A few years back they found in WYO that lion populations had crashed in areas where there were established wolf packs. The wolves drove out/killed them all. These released wolves dont really have packs. Advantage Lion ☠️

Both parties eat a lot of elk though. Based on my spring time observations, elk calf recruitment where I live is around 10-15% (at best). Everyone blames bears (blk bears) because it is convenient, however, ive never seen any evidence of a spring bear eating anything but grass (or maybe winter kill if they can find it). The reality is far more elk calves and yearlings are eaten by cats around here. I find lots of MT loin kill piles and caches. They usually contain far more small elk than deer.
 
Last edited:
txhunter58 said:
And of course the hits just keep on rolling.

coloradosun.com

Wolverine reintroduction legislation is “completely opposite” of Colorado's ballot–driven wolf plan

Legislation and a tentative Colorado Parks and Wildlife plan would reintroduce 45 wolverines in three mountain zones over three years
coloradosun.com coloradosun.com
Click to expand...
I don’t worry about the wooferines near as much as the woofs. They don’t compete with me. It’s kind of like the lynx’s to me - they say they’re out there but I never see one.

I used to be able to complain about the cost of these things, but since CPW is flush these days that’s not as satisfying as it was.
 
I wondered what wolverines eat. Google says mostly small mammals and carrion , but they can bring down full grown deer in deep snow. Their feet are like snowshoes. Since they don’t hibernate, that’s one more winter game stressor. And I am sure fawns and calves are on the menu at times too. So maybe not a big issue but one more predator.
 
Last edited:
txhunter58 said:
I wondered what wolverines eat. Google says mostly small mammals and carrion , but they can bring down full grown deer in deep snow. Their feet are like snowshoes. Since they don’t hibernate, that’s one more winter game stressor. And I am sure fawns and calves are on the menu at times too. So maybe not a big issue but one more predator.
Click to expand...
I shot one in Canada. In terms most of us understand, It’s a badger (with bear paws) that lives in the mountains.
 

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