Wildlife task force 90-10, etc.

Sierra said:
To be honest, I doubt many NRs give a $hit about the WY economy. They care about reduced NR tag allocations. I was just trying to explain what most intelligent decision makers consider before making recommendations.

Now maybe Buzz is correct about NR tag numbers not being impacted, but since no decisions have been made we don’t know. In any event, the actual number of tags is less relevant, it’s the overall allocation that matters.
Click to expand...
Yes we do know...full priced NR elk and region deer tags allocations won't change...and the task force isn't going to make the recommendation to change them either.
 
excavator said:
I agree. It’s not a tough concept, but it looks like
it may be for you (Sorry if that’s a condescending sentence, but you are kind of pulling me in to it).

We are talking total $$ spent in the state, not total $$ spent in any specific location. You need to say that to yourself slowly several times.

You could possibly be correct in what you are saying about dollars spent in a specific location. However, I am not disputing that, but you can keep talking about it if you like.

The part you don’t seem to grasp is that if a non-resident and his wife get those tags in NE Wyoming they are spending money in NE Wyoming and you and your wife are spending your resident money elsewhere in Wyoming. That’s twice as much money being spent in Wyoming. Get it?

It’s really not rocket science. Don’t make it any more difficult than it needs to be. Wyoming residents will spend their $$ in Wyoming whether they get their resident controlled hunt tag or not. On the other hand, non-residents will not spend their $$ in Wyoming if they don’t get a tag. This will be true the vast majority of the time.
Click to expand...
I call BS on this one. Many of the non-residents who come to Wyoming to hunt are from Utah. They are some of the cheapest and spend thrifty people on the planet who literally fart on a rock every time just to save the grease. They all have trucks with 500 mile range and their beds are stuffed full of gas cans of fuel they purchased at a Utah Sams Club and all their food came from the same Sams Club or a Utah Costco. They drive up to Afton or Big Piney and never spend a dime in Wyoming and many of them don’t even drink so the Bars and Lounges don’t get any revenue either. Same things happens from many Front Range hunters from Colorado who drive 500 mile range trucks and load up their bed full of gas cans and groceries all purchased in Colorado.
 
It's the lodging and restaurant industry that's everyone's talking about and 90/10 would have little to no impact on them.
 
If you’re a motel/hotel or restaurant and your livelihood is based on people using your facilities during the short hunting season you deserve to go out of business.
 
Let’s all pray they go 90/10 on all species and no nonres tags with 10 or fewer tags available!! Hopefully sooner than later !! Now that’s how it should be!
 
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BuzzH said:
I get your "theory"...too bad it's not reality.

If I don't draw a tag where I have to travel, or if I don't draw a tag at all...I won't spend the same amount of money in Wyoming. So, that's totally false.

If I don't have a tag, I don't spend anything on fuel. I don't eat at restaurants. My tires don't get flat sitting in my drive way.

Also, if I hunt closer to home, there is NO way I'm staying in a hotel, no way I'm eating in restaurant, etc.

Also, don't forget many NR's spend very little here if they bring their camp with them. Essentially fuel and maybe some junk food at the gas station. Many don't have their animals butchered here. Many don't stay in a hotel. Many don't go out to eat. Many don't even buy groceries here. Most don't have their taxidermy done here either...which in fairness is a PITA to do when it comes to shipping.

That's not to say I don't get your theory/point...but you're also not getting the flip side either.

Of course, there's also the big dead elephant in the room, that you're falsely assuming NR hunter numbers are going to decline significantly...they aren't going to.

Which means either way, R and NR's are going to continue to spend a lot of money hunting Wyoming and businesses as well as the G&F, are not going to suffer financially under 90-10.

That's a fact.
Click to expand...
His theory is very basic and what tourism economic development groups harp all of the time, it is reality. The point is that everyone has a certain amount of disposable income and if you cut non-residents tag in half then half of that money will 100% not come into Wyoming, but a good portion (75%?) of the money residents spend to hunt those same tags probably will stay in the state somehow (however you spend it, including hunting general units). You and a few others might stick it in a savings account and not spend that money as you are stating, but the majority of folks will spend their disposable income within their state on whatever they chose to (new boat, fishing road, new gun...whatever). Tourism is huge for many states and they try to bring people in to vacation in their state and this would reduce the number of non-residents coming to your state to hunt. You can argue that it is not significant in the big picture of the states's GDP or the state's tourism, that is fine and maybe it's not that big a deal. But going from 80/20 to 90/10 definitely reduces the amount of money brought into Wyoming, that is a fact.

It sounds like tourism is a big deal for Wyoming as the 2nd largest industry in the state:
industry.travelwyoming.com

Tourism Matters | Wyoming Office of Tourism

Tourism is a big business in Wyoming. Find out about the ongoing advocacy and education efforts from the Wyoming Office of Tourism.
industry.travelwyoming.com industry.travelwyoming.com

And the time of year when non-residents hunt is one of the lower tourism times of the year.

I want to stay out of this debate as it is something all constituents in Wyoming, resident hunters, outfitters, landowners, WYG&F, wolf lovers....should have a say in. Non-resident hunters don't have a say and shouldn't, but the issue is the large sums of money non-residents have "invested" in points based on 20+ year system would become devalued by 50% overnight. I understand residents want more tags, wouldn't they want 100% of the tags? You want your cake and you want to eat it to, you would like for non-residents to continue to supply the majority of the funding for the G&F but reduce their tags. Maybe with 90/10 you will get your cake and you will get to eat it too, but I ask, why not 100/0 if it is all about the smiles of happy residents? Just take all of the tags, why not?
 
nripepi said:
His theory is very basic and what tourism economic development groups harp all of the time, it is reality. The point is that everyone has a certain amount of disposable income and if you cut non-residents tag in half then half of that money will 100% not come into Wyoming, but a good portion (75%?) of the money residents spend to hunt those same tags probably will stay in the state somehow (however you spend it, including hunting general units). You and a few others might stick it in a savings account and not spend that money as you are stating, but the majority of folks will spend their disposable income within their state on whatever they chose to (new boat, fishing road, new gun...whatever). Tourism is huge for many states and they try to bring people in to vacation in their state and this would reduce the number of non-residents coming to your state to hunt. You can argue that it is not significant in the big picture of the states's GDP or the state's tourism, that is fine and maybe it's not that big a deal. But going from 80/20 to 90/10 definitely reduces the amount of money brought into Wyoming, that is a fact.

It sounds like tourism is a big deal for Wyoming as the 2nd largest industry in the state:
industry.travelwyoming.com

Tourism Matters | Wyoming Office of Tourism

Tourism is a big business in Wyoming. Find out about the ongoing advocacy and education efforts from the Wyoming Office of Tourism.
industry.travelwyoming.com industry.travelwyoming.com

And the time of year when non-residents hunt is one of the lower tourism times of the year.

I want to stay out of this debate as it is something all constituents in Wyoming, resident hunters, outfitters, landowners, WYG&F, wolf lovers....should have a say in. Non-resident hunters don't have a say and shouldn't, but the issue is the large sums of money non-residents have "invested" in points based on 20+ year system would become devalued by 50% overnight. I understand residents want more tags, wouldn't they want 100% of the tags? You want your cake and you want to eat it to, you would like for non-residents to continue to supply the majority of the funding for the G&F but reduce their tags. Maybe with 90/10 you will get your cake and you will get to eat it too, but I ask, why not 100/0 if it is all about the smiles of happy residents? Just take all of the tags, why not?
Click to expand...
Except the fact NR tags won't be cut in half...so...not sure how your term paper applies....
 
nripepi said:
I want to stay out of this debate as it is something all constituents in Wyoming, resident hunters, outfitters, landowners, WYG&F, wolf lovers....should have a say in. Non-resident hunters don't have a say and shouldn't, but the issue is the large sums of money non-residents have "invested" in points based on 20+ year system would become devalued by 50% overnight. I understand residents want more tags, wouldn't they want 100% of the tags? You want your cake and you want to eat it to, you would like for non-residents to continue to supply the majority of the funding for the G&F but reduce their tags. Maybe with 90/10 you will get your cake and you will get to eat it too, but I ask, why not 100/0 if it is all about the smiles of happy residents? Just take all of the tags, why not?
Click to expand...

Even at 100%, some will not draw the tags they want and be butt-hurt…It’s human nature!
 
BuzzH said:
Except the fact NR tags won't be cut in half...so...not sure how your term paper applies....
Click to expand...
How about "a 50% cut of non-res LQ licenses that residents apply for their full quotaf for". Does that sound correct? Which is steadily increasing for antelope licenses recently because of demand.

Can you answer, why not 100/0 or 95/5? Why not 90/10 with the 10 being outfitted only? I just want answer.
 
DoubleDropMuley said:
Or transplants to Alaska !! Couldn’t handle the Wyoming hunting so had to move where game is plentiful and easy after someone shows ya the ropes on broke back ?
Click to expand...
Hey don’t be jealous I can kill two grizz, 5 black bear, 4 mountain goats, 5 caribou, a moose, elk, 5 blacktail deer, unlimited mule deer year round, 3 sheep, and a musk ox all on OTC/registration tags in a year. I’m sure I’m missing a few Hahaha
 
nripepi said:
How about "a 50% cut of non-res LQ licenses that residents apply for their full quotaf for". Does that sound correct? Which is steadily increasing for antelope licenses recently because of demand.

Can you answer, why not 100/0 or 95/5? Why not 90/10 with the 10 being outfitted only? I just want answer.
Click to expand...
Can we get a translator?

Anyone?
 
SS! said:
Hey don’t be jealous I can kill two grizz, 5 black bear, 4 mountain goats, 5 caribou, a moose, elk, 5 blacktail deer, unlimited mule deer year round, 3 sheep, and a musk ox all on OTC/registration tags in a year. I’m sure I’m missing a few Hahaha
Click to expand...
Must be an Democratic Obama/Biden liberal hand outs state, participation trophy’s ?
 
BuzzH said:
I get your "theory"...too bad it's not reality.

If I don't draw a tag where I have to travel, or if I don't draw a tag at all...I won't spend the same amount of money in Wyoming. So, that's totally false.

If I don't have a tag, I don't spend anything on fuel. I don't eat at restaurants. My tires don't get flat sitting in my drive way.

Also, if I hunt closer to home, there is NO way I'm staying in a hotel, no way I'm eating in restaurant, etc.

Also, don't forget many NR's spend very little here if they bring their camp with them. Essentially fuel and maybe some junk food at the gas station. Many don't have their animals butchered here. Many don't stay in a hotel. Many don't go out to eat. Many don't even buy groceries here. Most don't have their taxidermy done here either...which in fairness is a PITA to do when it comes to shipping.

That's not to say I don't get your theory/point...but you're also not getting the flip side either.

Of course, there's also the big dead elephant in the room, that you're falsely assuming NR hunter numbers are going to decline significantly...they aren't going to.

Which means either way, R and NR's are going to continue to spend a lot of money hunting Wyoming and businesses as well as the G&F, are not going to suffer financially under 90-10.

That's a fact.
Click to expand...
Not sure what to say. You said more than one thing in there that’s simply not true and you absolutely can’t back it up besides some story about how you would just sit on your ass if you didn’t draw a tag (a controlled hunt tag that I mentioned).

Wyoming must be the only state in the country where non residents visiting your state does not equate to more dollars being spent in your state. HaHa. This is getting funny.

Also, quit answering questions nobody asked or asserted. I never said anything about assuming non resident numbers would or would not decline. Never have.

FYI-you just need to admit that of course non-residents visiting your state benefits your economy. It’s a bad look not conceding the absurdly obvious. You should be arguing that it has a negligible impact, but to argue that it does not exist just makes you look ignorant.

Have a good night.
 
BuzzH said:
Yes we do know...full priced NR elk and region deer tags allocations won't change...and the task force isn't going to make the recommendation to change them either.
Click to expand...
Then why are they having the task force if everything is decided and Cy wanted to let his grandkids hunt sheep. Makes no sense to go through this dog and pony show if all the answers are decided.
 
excavator said:
Wyoming must be the only state in the country where non residents visiting your state does not equate to more dollars being spent in your state. HaHa. This is getting funny.

Also, quit answering questions nobody asked or asserted. I never said anything about assuming non resident numbers would or would not decline. Never have.

FYI-you just need to admit that of course non-residents visiting your state benefits your economy. It’s a bad look not conceding the absurdly obvious. You should be arguing that it has a negligible impact, but to argue that it does not exist just makes you look ignorant.

Have a good night.
Click to expand...
My kid loves this song:

 
There is a few assumptions in all of this.

1) tag numbers will stay the same.

2) non residents will continue to plan hunts and buy leftover tags at the same rate as if they drew and purchased additional tags

3) non residents will continue to buy points at the same rate.

I think none of those are a given.

I am also going to assume that more people are going to move to Wyoming in the next 10 years.
 
Buzz the funny thing is you keep mentioning nonres tags won’t be cut in 1/2 with 90/10. You are merely candy coating it because high demand limited tags will be cut in 1/2 and those are the tags that pref pts are used to draw tags and those are the tags that will point leap with 90/10.

My guess is that most nonres could care less about the 2nd draw, left over, and doe tags that you seem so excited about handing over to nonres!

The fact is that high demand limited tags will take twice as long to draw with these cuts and nonres will have to spend twice the $ on expensive pref pt fees waiting to draw these tags.

You make it sound like nonres will be the winners with more elk tags available with 90/10 but in reality nonres hardly are issued any limited elk tags. In fact, there are so few limited nonres tags currently issued that they are considering combining the regular and special draw pools or there would not be enough tags to issue 1 tag to nonres. Also, according to the wording there possibly would be 0 tags issued to nonres if there aren't 10 tags available in a unit.
 
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IMG_4374.jpg


Here's a table listing how much Wyo res vs nones spend/day in Wyo. Below the table mentions that many nonres hunters bring along guests and there is an additional $1.4 million brought into Wyo from these nonres visitors that aren't accounted for in the table.

With that said, it's pretty easy to see the positive economic impacts nonres have on small town Wyo communities! If you are a Wyo small town business owner you will likely suffer the consequences with 90/10! If you are a small town Wyo business owner and hunt you may stand a tiny % better chance of drawing a limited tag with 90/10...but is it really worth it?
 
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Changing the "big 5" to 90/10 began when many resident hunters realized Wyoming's allocation to it's residents was far out of step with the western states for those species. The outfitters and many NR who fought to defeat 90/10 got us where we are today; 90/10 for all big game. Did anyone really think residents were just going to roll over and give up? Does anyone really believe elected officials are going to ultimately decide against their constituents who elect them?

While many were declaring victory this year when 90/10 died in committee, resident hunters were celebrating. The message of the committee was clear to anyone who listened; "the WTF has until January to resolve 90/10". And they weren't talking about killing it!

In fact, if 90/10 for the big 5 would have passed in 2016, we wouldn't be talking today about deer, elk and antelope. The story would have ended there. But thanks to outfitters and NR, the resident hunter became aware of how inequitable they were being treated compared to all the states around them in big game allocations.

The OP began this thread as an informational piece to inform everyone what happened last week in the opening meeting of the Task Force. It has turned into the same kind of post every 90/10 post turns into: lectures about revenue, greed and all current NR who hunt Wyoming moving here to spite the current resident hunter.

In 30+ years I have never drawn a big five tag in any state as a nonresident and I would be embarrassed to tell my wife how much money I have spent trying to do so.
 
LivingTheDream said:
There is a few assumptions in all of this.

1) tag numbers will stay the same.

2) non residents will continue to plan hunts and buy leftover tags at the same rate as if they drew and purchased additional tags

3) non residents will continue to buy points at the same rate.

I think none of those are a given.

I am also going to assume that more people are going to move to Wyoming in the next 10 years.
Click to expand...
If 90/10 was not even a factor you can’t guarantee any of those assumptions either. The numbers change and demands change not based upon 90/10 or what the current system in effect offers so those assumptions are not valid criteria for judging 90/10. If I had to make an educated guess though I would bet Elk licenses will increase, Mule deer licenses will decrease, whitetail will increase and antelope will stay about the same over a ten year period. The demand for hunting will only continue to increase so people will continue to come to Wyoming and experience hunting here and will purchase preference points and whatever else the system requires and is ultimately agreed upon. Almost every other Western state has now gone to a similar system, there is no reason to think Wyoming would just stand by and treat its residents as 2nd class citizens and continue to give away 25% of all sheep, goat and bison licenses and 20% of all moose licenses. It’s long past time a 90/10 type system was implemented here in Wyoming. We are always a little slow in many ways here in Wyoming but change is in the air.
 
jims said:
View attachment 44005

Here's a table listing how much Wyo res vs nones spend/day in Wyo. Below the table mentions that many nonres hunters bring along guests and there is an additional $1.4 million brought into Wyo from these nonres visitors that aren't accounted for in the table.

With that said, it's pretty easy to see the positive economic impacts nonres have on small town Wyo communities! If you are a Wyo small town business owner you will likely suffer the consequences with 90/10! If you are a small town Wyo business owner and hunt you may stand a tiny % better chance of drawing a limited tag with 90/10...but is it really worth it?
Click to expand...
Great idea JIMS. I now fully agree, all Non-resident hunters should be fully guided so they spend more money in Wyoming. No more DIY unguided hunts allowed as they don’t spend enough here in Wyoming. Please bring this to the attention of WYOGA and the Task Force so they can mandate all licenses in Wyoming for NR only be issued to NR who use the services of an Outfitter. Just think of all the extra money we will now have for businesses and the G&F.:love::love::love:
 
Now if they(WYO) was smart they would keep the tags that they take from NR pool and put in a Resident pool that had to pay the same prices as the NR Hunter, Same smiling faces, right Buzz plus now a good payday for the F&G dept because they didn't any lose that income.
90/10 is there to stay so get smart and charge the money if you think they will still buy those tags. LOL
 
I have been very fortunate or lucky. I’ve drawn the big 3 tags in Wyoming as a Nonresident over the years. I am very thankful for the opportunity the state has allowed me. With all this talk, I am also glad I’m out of the game chasing those tags. I see both sides of the argument.
I do wish more time and energy is spent towards making improvements towards herd health, habitat, etc than trying to figure out who can get the tag(s). We’re all on the same side in the big picture of things.
 
jims said:
View attachment 44005

Here's a table listing how much Wyo res vs nones spend/day in Wyo. Below the table mentions that many nonres hunters bring along guests and there is an additional $1.4 million brought into Wyo from these nonres visitors that aren't accounted for in the table.

With that said, it's pretty easy to see the positive economic impacts nonres have on small town Wyo communities! If you are a Wyo small town business owner you will likely suffer the consequences with 90/10! If you are a small town Wyo business owner and hunt you may stand a tiny % better chance of drawing a limited tag with 90/10...but is it really worth it?
Click to expand...
To be fair I didn’t read your post. But to be really fair I don’t read most your posts. I mean if you can’t do simple math like add up how many antelope tags there are for one unit I’m suppose to trust you when you start talking numbers on something else?
 
jm77 said:
In fact, if 90/10 for the big 5 would have passed in 2016, we wouldn't be talking today about deer, elk and antelope. The story would have ended there. But thanks to outfitters and NR, the resident hunter became aware of how inequitable they were being treated compared to all the states around them in big game allocations.
Click to expand...

Ya right. No one is buying your BS.
 
Sierra said:
Ya right. No one is buying your BS.
Click to expand...
You obviously don't know BS from the truth(big surprise). Were you there in 2016 at the Capital? Buzz was there ask him. The first 90/10 bill was for the big five and I guarantee very few residents knew or cared about 90/10.

Thank yourselves for where we are now.
 
jm77 said:
In 30+ years I have never drawn a big five tag in any state as a nonresident and I would be embarrassed to tell my wife how much money I have spent trying to do so.
Click to expand...
Slipped my mind, I drew a Maine moose tag in 2009, but you get the picture.

By the way, Maine has 90/10 for moose.
 
307hunter comments and viewpoints on the first meeting.

“My bet is the outfitters and the Stockgrowers are conspiring together to offer 90/10 on deer, antelope and elk in exchange for transferable landowner tags - this is where the big money is. And believe me, this whole debate is about money.

My guess the outfitters and stock growers on the Taskforce are working the phones with the other Taskforce members pushing this landowner tags. We won't know for sure until 90/10 for these other species is brought up - and I'm hoping Sen. Hicks is already on it.”
www.307hunter.com

Wildlife Task Force Set to Recommend 90/10 for Sheep, Goat, Moose, Grizzly, Bison — 307Hunter.com

Finally, a Win! (Maybe ...) I attended Day 1 and part of Day 2 of the 18-Member Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce initial meeting in Casper this week. Big news coming out of the Taskforce is it currently intends to forward a recommendation to the Legislature for the 2022 Session to implement 90/10 tag a
www.307hunter.com www.307hunter.com
 
highfastflyer said:
307hunter comments and viewpoints on the first meeting.

“My bet is the outfitters and the Stockgrowers are conspiring together to offer 90/10 on deer, antelope and elk in exchange for transferable landowner tags - this is where the big money is. And believe me, this whole debate is about money.

My guess the outfitters and stock growers on the Taskforce are working the phones with the other Taskforce members pushing this landowner tags. We won't know for sure until 90/10 for these other species is brought up - and I'm hoping Sen. Hicks is already on it.”
www.307hunter.com

Wildlife Task Force Set to Recommend 90/10 for Sheep, Goat, Moose, Grizzly, Bison — 307Hunter.com

Finally, a Win! (Maybe ...) I attended Day 1 and part of Day 2 of the 18-Member Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce initial meeting in Casper this week. Big news coming out of the Taskforce is it currently intends to forward a recommendation to the Legislature for the 2022 Session to implement 90/10 tag a
www.307hunter.com www.307hunter.com
Click to expand...
That can’t happen because Buzz already told me I was wrong when I brought that up.
 
It sure sounds like a lot of whispering going on behind closed doors with the task force! Wyo residents better watch out, outfitters could easily steal more outfitter and landowner tags than they could get from 90/10!
 
jims said:
It sure sounds like a lot of whispering going on behind closed doors with the task force! Wyo residents better watch out, outfitters could easily steal more outfitter and landowner tags than they could get from 90/10!
Click to expand...
It could be another win-win for Wyoming residents. A Ranching for Wildlife (RFW) program and a 90/10. Great, now I have a chance to go hunt some of those big ranches like Q-Creek, the
Pathfinder or Overland Trail Cattle. I always wanted to go hunting on one of those Huge ranches.
 
I'm sure the outfitters, stockgrowers, and landowners on the task force have Wyo residents in mind in regard to outfitter and landowner tag options! Who's going to get screwed out of tags in the coming years? It sure would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in some of the discussions behind closed doors!
 
highfastflyer said:
It could be another win-win for Wyoming residents. A Ranching for Wildlife (RFW) program and a 90/10. Great, now I have a chance to go hunt some of those big ranches like Q-Creek, the
Pathfinder or Overland Trail Cattle. I always wanted to go hunting on one of those Huge ranches.
Click to expand...
The Pathfinder? Mostly public land there.
 
Sierra said:
10% NR, 10% Outfitter tags and transferable tags. Residents should be fine with that since they have equal access to the Outfitter and Landowner tags.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a typical California idea. Where do you live?
 
jm77 said:
The Pathfinder? Mostly public land there.
Click to expand...
I intended that big one near Cody (Hoodoo) but there are a plethora of Very large landowners which might be open to a CWMU type arrangement. Perhaps you might know of a few? The Pathfinder has purchased multiple new ranches and has a substantial amount of private lands and landlocked public lands. https://www.pathfinderranches.com/
 
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Reading this post is kinda like going to walmart. Makes a guy feel better about himslef after he's been through it. Haha some real great ideas in here. It's going to be 90/10 you guys cut your own throats relying on wyoga and doing nothing but talking $h!+ on here.
 
BuzzH said:
I get your "theory"...too bad it's not reality.

If I don't draw a tag where I have to travel, or if I don't draw a tag at all...I won't spend the same amount of money in Wyoming. So, that's totally false.

If I don't have a tag, I don't spend anything on fuel. I don't eat at restaurants. My tires don't get flat sitting in my drive way.

Also, if I hunt closer to home, there is NO way I'm staying in a hotel, no way I'm eating in restaurant, etc.

Also, don't forget many NR's spend very little here if they bring their camp with them. Essentially fuel and maybe some junk food at the gas station. Many don't have their animals butchered here. Many don't stay in a hotel. Many don't go out to eat. Many don't even buy groceries here. Most don't have their taxidermy done here either...which in fairness is a PITA to do when it comes to shipping.

That's not to say I don't get your theory/point...but you're also not getting the flip side either.

Of course, there's also the big dead elephant in the room, that you're falsely assuming NR hunter numbers are going to decline significantly...they aren't going to.

Which means either way, R and NR's are going to continue to spend a lot of money hunting Wyoming and businesses as well as the G&F, are not going to suffer financially under 90-10.

That's a fact.
Click to expand...
Just because you say it is a fact, does not make it true. It is your opinion, which is fine. I happen to disagree with you. As a for-instance, I have stopped playing the points game for moose, mt goat and sheep in Wyoming as the odds have decreased. Walked away from all my points. $450 I do not contribute to GF each year.

my point is NRs are not a cash machine, they make decisions, ever so minor, in response to changes that affect them. Cumulatively, they may or may not add up to something significant to the state, but NRs may well adjust their spending in response to 90/10.
 
Savage110 said:
Just because you say it is a fact, does not make it true. It is your opinion, which is fine. I happen to disagree with you. As a for-instance, I have stopped playing the points game for moose, mt goat and sheep in Wyoming as the odds have decreased. Walked away from all my points. $450 I do not contribute to GF each year.
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There are no points for Mtn goat. Oops!:ROFLMAO:
 
Not saying anything one way or the other on the topic. One detail that would be interested in learning. What ages are the point holders.
 
Bookhead said:
Reading this post is kinda like going to walmart. Makes a guy feel better about himslef after he's been through it. Haha some real great ideas in here. It's going to be 90/10 you guys cut your own throats relying on wyoga and doing nothing but talking $h!+ on here.
Click to expand...
I don't know, maybe I am bias, but it seems like most of the non-residents on this thread are trying to discuss the issue, not talk ****. I think most of us seem to be reasonable and understand why residents want more tags, who wouldn't want more tags. I also think the non-residents here want to have a discussion about the issue and we are told we don't know what we are talking about, there will be no reduction in tags, there will be no economic impact to anyone anywhere....it's just not true.

This is what I think:

1. 90/10 for all species will reduce non-resident limited quota (LQ) tags by 50% for LQ units/species in demand and the amount of time to draw a LQ tag will double.

2. This reduction in 50% of the non-resident LQ tags will increase resident odds of drawing a LQ tag. How much depends on the unit and number of tags and number of applicants. One example, if you take Unit 52-1 antelope, the resident quota was 115 and there were 399 first choice applicants for draw odds of 28.8%. This change should add about 13 tags to the resident quota and will increase draw odds from 28.8% to 32.1%.

3. Less non-resident hunters will hunt in Wyoming because of this change which will decrease Wyoming tourism dollars and G&F license fees and outfitter revenue brought into the state. It seems like that number is pretty cut and dry for LQ units in demand. I understand the general elk number can vary to off-set this, but that is not the case for deer and antelope and the other big 5. I think one could calculate the economic impact in dollars pretty quickly (let me know if you want me to do this for you all).

4. Non-residents who have invested in points for decades at $500 per year recently get hurt the worst in this deal. Think a 65 year old with 20 sheep points who planned to draw a sheep tag in 5-10 years when he is 70-75 will now draw (best case) when he is 75-85 years old. I think that individual may want a refund, he should be allowed his refund if 90/10 goes through. If not, it is a bait and switch legal issue that I doubt the state would want a part of, I don't see how they can defend charging $150 per year for a point and then change the rules. Just offer a 50% refund on those points and legally you should be in the clear. I doubt this will cost more than a few 100K as many will likely keep their points. Those are small potatoes on refunds, the big issue is how many will now drop out of the points game for moose and sheep (I would think 50% and once someone draws they would not come back). I guess that is only losing out on $1-2 million per year in points revenue....maybe that is not a big deal and worth it.

To say there is no impact, is just a false statement. Let's discuss the facts and then the stakeholders in the state of Wyoming should be allowed to make their decision.

The wildcard here is WYOGA and what they want to support (I am guessing they are willing to give up 90/10 on the big five for something more lucrative like keeping the status quo on the other species or adding transferable landowner tags or a straight outfitter pool in the draw.

I have asked repeatedly and no one will answer, why not 100/0 instead of 90/10 or why not 90/10 with the 10 being just for outfitted hunts....why not? I hope I didn't come across as condescending or talking too much ****, didn't mean to.

I thank the state of Wyoming and it's residents for every hunt I have had there and will have there in the future and almost every time I meet a G&F employee in the field they also thank me for the money spent in the state. I am not sure if they are trained on this or not, but it has happened often when my licenses have been checked (I guess it helps pay their salaries).
 
jm77 said:
There are no points for Mtn goat. Oops!:ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Sheep = $150
Moose = $150
Elk = $52
Deer = $41
Antelope = $31

Total = $424

$424 X 3% transaction fee = $436 which is pretty close to $450 per year. I bet there is some sort of processing fee as well for a few dollars. That's pretty steep for a family of a few hunters, I doubt many will go for sheep or moose unless they have a lot of points already.
 
nripepi said:
Sheep = $150
Moose = $150
Elk = $52
Deer = $41
Antelope = $31

Total = $424

$424 X 3% transaction fee = $436 which is pretty close to $450 per year. I bet there is some sort of processing fee as well for a few dollars. That's pretty steep for a family of a few hunters, I doubt many will go for sheep or moose unless they have a lot of points already.
Click to expand...
Many of those points were purchased for a long time at a mere $7 a point. Prices and rules constantly change and the point system Never made any guarantees. In fact it was always understood the herd numbers fluctuate greatly per year just based upon the weather. If it would make you feel better to have had a legal disclaimer signed when you purchase a preference point then perhaps it could read something like this.



“No Guarantees or Warranties. Except as expressly provided in the Agreement, neither Customer nor Wyoming Game and Fish makes any guarantees or warranties of any kind, expressed or implied. The state of Wyoming specifically disclaims all implied warranties of any kind or nature, including any implied warranty of license allocation or harvest.”

Did Idaho, Montana, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and any other states which cut back their Non-Resident licenses to 90/10 offer any Implied warranty for changing the quotas? I think we already know the answer to that one.

Most hunters know full well nothing is guaranteed or implied in hunting or obtaining a license in an ever changing system the license numbers, prices, seasons and conditions can change and will vary from season to season. To think otherwise is just wishful thinking.
 
The sad think about this is adventually all states will end up in a pay to play Texas style of hunting. When this happens both residents and nonresident will be left out unless they have a large bank account. Hopefully I will be dead before this ever happens.
 
LIK2HNT said:
The sad think about this is adventually all states will end up in a pay to play Texas style of hunting. When this happens both residents and nonresident will be left out unless they have a large bank account. Hopefully I will be dead before this ever happens.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, pay to play is a better option than 90/10.
 
I am talking about all limited tags being auctioned. I know there are a lot of people who will pay $10k plus for a big 5 tag, and a few thousand for deer and elk tags. Myself, all the people I know, and I assume most residents and nonresident do not have that kind of money.
And sorry bob, but I do care about what is happening to our sport. I just do not have any ideas on how to fix it
 
that'll never happen

If people cared about those with more money having better odds, the special draw would be a topic of discussion but it isn't.
 
Why should a state get money from the Pittmans Roberson act when they limiting non residential hunter?
 
I don’t believe wildlife on federal land is owned by the state. But… I do believe the state has permission to manage that wildlife through Congress.
 
quest said:
Why should a state get money from the Pittmans Roberson act when they limiting non residential hunter?
Click to expand...
Most of the funding the Game and Fish department receives is from the licensing division ie licenses and drawings and preference point type sales not PR.
The PR funding is part of more than $1 billion Federal funding going to state wildlife agencies from revenues generated by excise taxes paid by the hunting, shooting, boating and angling industries on firearms, bows, ammunition, sport fishing tackle, some boat engines and small engine fuel. The amount of money allocated is based, in part, on the number of licensed anglers and hunters a state has, and each state must provide a 25 percent match. Funds are distributed to states as reimbursements. Wyoming apportionments include more than $5.5 million in Sport Fish Restoration funds and about $11.7 million in Wildlife Restoration funds.

Game and Fish does not receive any general tax revenue or state general funds. Other than PRDJ revenue, Game and Fish is mostly funded by the sale of hunting and fishing licenses. PRDJ funds only cover projects to:

Manage and restore wildlife and sportfish
  • Research fish and wildlife
  • Obtain data to direct regulations
  • Acquire property for habitat and/or access
  • Restore habitat
  • Operate and maintain facilities necessary to carry out PRDJ activities
  • Fund hunter education and aquatic resource education
  • Operate firearm and archery ranges for public use
  • Fund fish stocking for recreation
  • Provide boating access
  • https://wgfd.wyo.gov/News/Wyoming-to-receive-millions-for-conservation-and-r
 
highfastflyer said:
Most of the funding the Game and Fish department receives is from the licensing division ie licenses and drawings and preference point type sales not PR.
The PR funding is part of more than $1 billion going to state wildlife agencies from revenues generated by excise taxes paid by the hunting, shooting, boating and angling industries on firearms, bows, ammunition, sport fishing tackle, some boat engines and small engine fuel. The amount of money allocated is based, in part, on the number of licensed anglers and hunters a state has, and each state must provide a 25 percent match. Funds are distributed to states as reimbursements. Wyoming apportionments include more than $5.5 million in Sport Fish Restoration funds and about $11.7 million in Wildlife Restoration funds.

Game and Fish does not receive any general tax revenue or state general funds. Other than PRDJ revenue, Game and Fish is mostly funded by the sale of hunting and fishing licenses. PRDJ funds only cover projects to:

Manage and restore wildlife and sportfish
  • Research fish and wildlife
  • Obtain data to direct regulations
  • Acquire property for habitat and/or access
  • Restore habitat
  • Operate and maintain facilities necessary to carry out PRDJ activities
  • Fund hunter education and aquatic resource education
  • Operate firearm and archery ranges for public use
  • Fund fish stocking for recreation
  • Provide boating access
  • https://wgfd.wyo.gov/News/Wyoming-to-receive-millions-for-conservation-and-r
Click to expand...
✨ ? ? ⭐️ The more you know ✨ ? ? ⭐️
7E1FACF4-55B5-4BA9-9406-F5E568196BA6.png
 
lostinOregon said:
I didn’t realize that a few keyboard warriors talking **** could change an entire draw system. Wow, the power of Rokslide
Click to expand...
Their chit talking got me to apply the wife and I for 4 doe pronghorn tags and another 4 in the leftover draw...first time my wife has ever even put in for a doe tag. I'm also putting in for leftover buck tags too.

If they want to call residents greedy ba$stards, may as well have the tags too...
 
nripepi said:
Sheep = $150
Moose = $150
Elk = $52
Deer = $41
Antelope = $31

Total = $424

$424 X 3% transaction fee = $436 which is pretty close to $450 per year. I bet there is some sort of processing fee as well for a few dollars. That's pretty steep for a family of a few hunters, I doubt many will go for sheep or moose unless they have a lot of points already.
Click to expand...
You missed the whole point, but it's not worth explaining. This thread has turned into every 90/10 thread:

NR are going to make G&F go broke by not buying points
NR going to sue for "bait & switch"
The animals on Federal land belong to all
Residents will have to pay gozillion more for tags
PR money is going to be taken away
Small Wyoming businesses are going to go bankrupt
And last but not least, NR are all going to move to Wyoming and become residents and apply for our tags!

I'm sure I missed a few...
 
Last edited:
BuzzH said:
Their chit talking got me to apply the wife and I for 4 doe pronghorn tags and another 4 in the leftover draw...first time my wife has ever even put in for a doe tag. I'm also putting in for leftover buck tags too.

If they want to call residents greedy ba$stards, may as well have the tags too...
Click to expand...
I did the same for my parents. Two reduced priced doe/fawn tags that will not be used!
 
jm77 said:
You missed the whole point, but it's not worth explaining. This thread has turned into every 90/10 thread:

NR are going to make you go broke by not buying points
NR going to sue for "bait & switch"
The animals on Federal land belong to all
Residents will have to pay gozillion more for tags
PR money is going to be taken away
Small Wyoming businesses are going to go bankrupt
And last but not least, NR are all going to move to Wyoming and become residents and apply for our tags!

I'm sure I missed a few...
Click to expand...
THAT is the funniest thing I've read for a while...and the absolute truth.

I think you missed canceling Christmas if 90-10 were to pass...
 
BuzzH said:
Their chit talking got me to apply the wife and I for 4 doe pronghorn tags and another 4 in the leftover draw...first time my wife has ever even put in for a doe tag. I'm also putting in for leftover buck tags too.

If they want to call residents greedy ba$stards, may as well have the tags too...
Click to expand...
Good for you Buzz, I'm glad you are slaughtering the antelope doe. My point is that a few guys saying something shouldn't change your attitude toward all NR hunters. I guess its your choice on what attitude your going to have. What's funny is I think that WY has been too generous to the NR and understand if I was a resident, I would like the 90/10 or something similar. It makes sense in the same way that Oregon, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah screw non residents with changes to the systems and less than appealing odds. I got out of elk once I drew and now only play the antelope/deer game. The ones I feel sorry for are the guys with 20 plus sheep/moose points who have played the game, started at 7 bucks a point and continued through all the price hikes . That's a tough pill to swallow for those guys and I feel for them, even if some of the residents don't give two hoots. Life isn't fair and there are no guarantees in life, but I get where they are coming from on the moose/sheep applications. I don't get excited to see other sportsman's dreams crashed like some other folks seem to get off on even if I dropped out of that game awhile ago.

Rich
 
lostinOregon said:
Good for you Buzz, I'm glad you are slaughtering the antelope doe. My point is that a few guys saying something shouldn't change your attitude toward all NR hunters. I guess its your choice on what attitude your going to have. What's funny is I think that WY has been too generous to the NR and understand if I was a resident, I would like the 90/10 or something similar. It makes sense in the same way that Oregon, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah screw non residents with changes to the systems and less than appealing odds. I got out of elk once I drew and now only play the antelope/deer game. The ones I feel sorry for are the guys with 20 plus sheep/moose points who have played the game, started at 7 bucks a point and continued through all the price hikes . That's a tough pill to swallow for those guys and I feel for them, even if some of the residents don't give two hoots. Life isn't fair and there are no guarantees in life, but I get where they are coming from on the moose/sheep applications. I don't get excited to see other sportsman's dreams crashed like some other folks seem to get off on even if I dropped out of that game awhile ago.

Rich
Click to expand...
Where's the requirement to fill all your tags?...I can tell you at least 4 that aren't going to leave the house...6 more if we get leftovers most likely.

Those states didn't screw anybody...show me the warranty or the guarantee of a tag.

I don't feel sorry for anyone with 20+ points in Wyoming, go look at past draw odds, they CHOSE to not hunt.

The only regret I have with points in Wyoming...I also CHOSE to not burn my moose points sooner, I left 4-5 on the table and would be at 6 or 7 points on my second tag now. But, I'm not going to blame someone else for my choice...its my fault I only have 2 moose points right now.

I burned my sheep points as soon as I thought I could draw a tag (and applied random for the 20 years prior).

I care more about JM77's resident grandkids or mulecreek's kids having better odds of drawing sheep and moose than people who don't live here.

You know what keeps me up at night?.....nothing.
 
Last edited:
I for one am not excited to see non residents odds drop for the big 5 but i am excited that i might actually be able to draw one myself at some point and maybe just maybe ill get to see my daughter hunt one of them. When it come to me and mine or the non residents...... sorry they lose but i don't get a kick out of it
 
jm77 said:
Changing the "big 5" to 90/10 began when many resident hunters realized Wyoming's allocation to it's residents was far out of step with the western states for those species. The outfitters and many NR who fought to defeat 90/10 got us where we are today; 90/10 for all big game. Did anyone really think residents were just going to roll over and give up? Does anyone really believe elected officials are going to ultimately decide against their constituents who elect them?

While many were declaring victory this year when 90/10 died in committee, resident hunters were celebrating. The message of the committee was clear to anyone who listened; "the WTF has until January to resolve 90/10". And they weren't talking about killing it!

In fact, if 90/10 for the big 5 would have passed in 2016, we wouldn't be talking today about deer, elk and antelope. The story would have ended there. But thanks to outfitters and NR, the resident hunter became aware of how inequitable they were being treated compared to all the states around them in big game allocations.

The OP began this thread as an informational piece to inform everyone what happened last week in the opening meeting of the Task Force. It has turned into the same kind of post every 90/10 post turns into: lectures about revenue, greed and all current NR who hunt Wyoming moving here to spite the current resident hunter.

In 30+ years I have never drawn a big five tag in any state as a nonresident and I would be embarrassed to tell my wife how much money I have spent trying to do so.
Click to expand...


You guys elected Liz Cheney, so I'm guessing voting with your constituents isn't a Wyoming thing?
 
Here I sit in Utah, watching this and laughing.

The spin on both sides is to the point of stupid.

On one side, you have dudes who believe it their constitutional right to wander into another state and make demands for tags. But ONLY in Wyoming. In the surrounding states we would prefer no non res tags. Somehow Wyoming should be different.

Then on the other you have a line of the usuals, lead by the usual who try to play voodoo math(a doe pronghorn and a sheep tag are the same so it's not a 50% cut). Followed by the others who try to pretend that there's no economic impact from removing tags from a pool where they pay 100's of times more per tag, plus fees. Or that somehow dudes drive from the Wasatch front to Afton, and back without spending a dime, which anyone with eyes knows is BS. (Ever been to Smiths in Jackson, you think that's locals?)

Reality is Wyoming probably should go to 90/10, I haven't lost sleep in Utah worrying about more NR tags.

However, what we in the surrounding western states need to do is push for regulations that require all Wyoming residents to hire a guide for any LE hunt tag. Same as Wyoming does for NR in wilderness. I know JM and Buzz will strongly support that, as they are adamant states rights supporters. They also believe in "fairness" of what other states do vs Wyoming, so in fairness, those states should be able to add a guide surcharge where they see fit. Let us in other states protect our guides just as Wyoming does.
 
quest said:
I don’t believe wildlife on federal land is owned by the state. But… I do believe the state has permission to manage that wildlife through Congress.
Click to expand...

Then I'm guessing the states have a bill for the feds with a pile of zeros behind it for the managing of the feds wildlife
 
hossblur said:
Here I sit in Utah, watching this and laughing.

The spin on both sides is to the point of stupid.

On one side, you have dudes who believe it their constitutional right to wander into another state and make demands for tags. But ONLY in Wyoming. In the surrounding states we would prefer no non res tags. Somehow Wyoming should be different.

Then on the other you have a line of the usuals, lead by the usual who try to play voodoo math(a doe pronghorn and a sheep tag are the same so it's not a 50% cut). Followed by the others who try to pretend that there's no economic impact from removing tags from a pool where they pay 100's of times more per tag, plus fees. Or that somehow dudes drive from the Wasatch front to Afton, and back without spending a dime, which anyone with eyes knows is BS. (Ever been to Smiths in Jackson, you think that's locals?)

Reality is Wyoming probably should go to 90/10, I haven't lost sleep in Utah worrying about more NR tags.

However, what we in the surrounding western states need to do is push for regulations that require all Wyoming residents to hire a guide for any LE hunt tag. Same as Wyoming does for NR in wilderness. I know JM and Buzz will strongly support that, as they are adamant states rights supporters. They also believe in "fairness" of what other states do vs Wyoming, so in fairness, those states should be able to add a guide surcharge where they see fit. Let us in other states protect our guides just as Wyoming does.
Click to expand...
Just FYI in case you ever drive it, you don’t go to Jackson from the Wasatch Front to get to Afton. LMAO. That would be like driving from St. George to Salt Lake via Ogden LOL. When non-resident hunters come to Wyoming and hunt Wilderness they might get lost or eaten by a grizzly bear, no such threat in Utah exists. We just chase off the few over hunted black bears you have and when lost we normally get good cell phone service about anywhere in Utah. :cool::cool::cool:
 
highfastflyer said:
Just FYI in case you ever drive it, you don’t go to Jackson from the Wasatch Front to get to Afton. LMAO. That would be like driving from St. George to Salt Lake via Ogden LOL. When non-resident hunters come to Wyoming and hunt Wilderness they might get lost or eaten by a grizzly bear, no such threat in Utah exists. We just chase off the few over hunted black bears you have and when lost we normally get good cell phone service about anywhere in Utah. :cool::cool::cool:
Click to expand...


FYI not every NR is Founder heading to Afton. There's also a reason the gas stations and cafes are on the edge of the highway, and not in town where the locals are.

We have pretty scary rattlesnakes, that only a Utah guide knows about, thus the reason to protect the Wyomingites via guides.
 
Bookhead said:
I for one am not excited to see non residents odds drop for the big 5 but i am excited that i might actually be able to draw one myself at some point and maybe just maybe ill get to see my daughter hunt one of them. When it come to me and mine or the non residents...... sorry they lose but i don't get a kick out of it
Click to expand...
I think any sane non-resident can respect this opinion, thanks for stating it.
 
BuzzH said:
Their chit talking got me to apply the wife and I for 4 doe pronghorn tags and another 4 in the leftover draw...first time my wife has ever even put in for a doe tag. I'm also putting in for leftover buck tags too.

If they want to call residents greedy ba$stards, may as well have the tags too...
Click to expand...
Just curious what units you applied for and if you drew the 4 doe tags?
 
BuzzH said:
I don't feel sorry for anyone with 20+ points in Wyoming, go look at past draw odds, they CHOSE to not hunt.
Click to expand...
For moose with 20, yes there have been units at times if you chose units correctly that year. But for sheep and those currently with 20 points, I have only seen 2 tags in the past 10 years they could have drawn and you would have had to been lucky and chose the right unit that year.
 
hossblur said:
However, what we in the surrounding western states need to do is push for regulations that require all Wyoming residents to hire a guide for any LE hunt tag. Same as Wyoming does for NR in wilderness. I know JM and Buzz will strongly support that, as they are adamant states rights supporters. They also believe in "fairness" of what other states do vs Wyoming, so in fairness, those states should be able to add a guide surcharge where they see fit. Let us in other states protect our guides just as Wyoming does.
Click to expand...
This would be fair if you are talking wilderness. FYI I can't speak for other residents, but I have always thought wilderness guide law was wrong. It will be a TF topic.
Bookhead said:
I for one am not excited to see non residents odds drop for the big 5 but i am excited that i might actually be able to draw one myself at some point and maybe just maybe ill get to see my daughter hunt one of them. When it come to me and mine or the non residents...... sorry they lose but i don't get a kick out of it
Click to expand...
This is my sentiments too, I have some very good friends out there that are NR, they know who they are!
Bookhead said:
Accept the ones that talk smack i get a kick out of it then
Click to expand...
And many of my responses are to these guys, the rest of you please don't take offense.
nripepi said:
What was the point, just curious?
Click to expand...
The threat to not pay $450($150 each) for sheep, goat & moose points? That obviously means he wasn't paying for points when there are no points for goats. Idle threats abound in this discussion.
 
highfastflyer said:
When non-resident hunters come to Wyoming and hunt Wilderness they might get lost or eaten by a grizzly bear, no such threat in Utah exists.
Click to expand...
Yeah, people never get lost or fall to their death in Utah. We can ignore all the people that die in the Uintas and Southern Utah (where the most desolate portions aren't Wilderness Areas), seemingly every year.

I'm just impressed with the innate ability that every Wyoming resident is born with (or acquires when the U-Haul pulls into town) that automatically makes them know how to survive in the mountains... they are even qualified to be Resident Guides for the hapless non-resident merely by their mailing address.

But even more impressive is the ability of grizzlies to identify non-residents so they know which people to maul!

THANK YOU WYOGA FOR YOUR THOUGHTFUL PURSUIT OF THE PROTECTION OF NON-RESIDENTS!
 
nripepi said:
Just curious what units you applied for and if you drew the 4 doe tags?
Click to expand...
A unit very popular with NRs...and it gets too crowded and pronghorn numbers are down. Has sold out in the initial draw for at least 10 years. I sometimes have a second choice buck tag there and I just made that unit less crowded by 2 hunters, maybe 4. Plus if the gf won't reduce doe harvest....I will by 4.

Anything else?
 
grizzly said:
But even more impressive is the ability of grizzlies to identify non-residents so they know which people to maul!
Click to expand...
Grizzly Bears have taken note of the recent Memorandum issued by the Wyoming Game and Fish.

“In light of the rising frequency of human/grizzly bear
conflicts, the Wyoming Game and Fish Department
is advising hikers, hunters, and fishermen to take extra
precautions and keep alert for bears while in the field.
We advise that outdoorsmen wear noisy little bells on
their clothing so as not to startle the bears that aren't
expecting them. We also advise outdoorsmen to carry
pepper spray with them in case of an encounter with a
bear.

It is also a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear
activity. Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference
between black bear and grizzly bear poop. Black bear poop
is smaller and contains a lot of berry seeds and squirrel fur.
Grizzly bear poop has little bells in it and smells like pepper
spray.”:eek::devilish::eek::devilish::alien:
 
BuzzH said:
A unit very popular with NRs...and it gets too crowded and pronghorn numbers are down. Has sold out in the initial draw for at least 10 years. I sometimes have a second choice buck tag there and I just made that unit less crowded by 2 hunters, maybe 4. Plus if the gf won't reduce doe harvest....I will by 4.

Anything else?
Click to expand...
Nope, just curious on the unit and if it went leftover or not....I guess they don't go leftover.
 
jm77 said:
This would be fair if you are talking wilderness. FYI I can't speak for other residents, but I have always thought wilderness guide law was wrong. It will be a TF topic.

It's a state issue, correct? I'm always reminded of that whenever regs in Wyoming come up
Click to expand...
 

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