Utah Trail Cam Season Question

[travishunter3006]

Yup.


LEO doesn't have access to tag database.

They'd never think to just look and see what tag you have, for where.

And you'll probably pick up a ticket for hunting turkeys with 30-06.

Can't wait for next year's meeting when all the guys who "never killed anything on cams", to show up at the total ban meeting to tell us "I just really love turkeys the 3rd week of October, don't take my cam"

I heard all the "really smart" dudes say for years that it wasn't "illegal" to shoot Trumpeter swans because there was no penalty.

Now there's a penalty.

The same will happen with the "smart guys" on cams

You really don't know how things work. Good luck bud. Life must have been really hard for you to navigate.

 

[hossblur]

I

You really don't know how things work. Good luck bud. Life must have been really hard for you to navigate.

Just the opposite. I DO know how things work.

Here's a tip.

Some of the dudes, who will be checking your "turkey cam", are in internet forums. Might not want to tell them in advance what you plan on doing?

 

[slamdunk]

Are you implying that if somebody else has a recreational camera on a water hole that means you can't hunt in the same area?

That's like saying that if somebody else has a deer tag that you can't hunt that day because you'd be the second deer hunter and it's only legal to have one deer tag.

If somebody else drives up the road in the middle of the day with headlights on their wheeler, that doesn't mean you're hunting with artificial light because their headlights are on.

If somebody else is hunting grouse and you're archery hunting, that doesn't mean you're hunting deer with a shotgun just because somebody else is using one.

There's no plain reading of the law that would reach that conclusion.

It should mean common sense applies.
The speed limit sign says 70 mph, it doesn't mean you should do 85

 

[grizzly]

Covey Jones, Utah Big Game Coordinator for DWR, had an interesting quote on KSL.

 

[slamdunk]

Cat's aren't generally watched on camera's anyway, and bear hunters will just have to spend physical time in their stands ?‍

 

[Bux n Dux]

Yup.


LEO doesn't have access to tag database.

They'd never think to just look and see what tag you have, for where.

And you'll probably pick up a ticket for hunting turkeys with 30-06.

Can't wait for next year's meeting when all the guys who "never killed anything on cams", to show up at the total ban meeting to tell us "I just really love turkeys the 3rd week of October, don't take my cam"

I heard all the "really smart" dudes say for years that it wasn't "illegal" to shoot Trumpeter swans because there was no penalty.

Now there's a penalty.

The same will happen with the "smart guys" on cams

Have at it?

Speaking from personal experience, LEOs can, do and WILL, look up what tags people have for any reason they would like. Happens every day.

It’s not illegal to shoot trumpeters. Never has been in utah. Still isn’t. You just have a waiting period associated with it if you do. Kinda like drawing a LE or OIL tag. If you get a special opportunity and choose to take it, there’s a penalty to do so. It’s the exact same concept. Limiting opportunity for a limited resource. Trumpeters or moose. You still have a wait period of you choose to take the opportunity.

Coincidentally, bait used by guides, trumpeter swans targeted by guides and cams used by guides, are why we are having these discussions. There’s a common theme here. Maybe this has all been to lead up to the newest house bill directed at hunters.

But don’t say it’s “ILLEGAL” to shoot a trumpeter swan. I had you pegged as a much smarter person than that. I suppose i was wrong.

 

[hossblur]

Cat's aren't generally watched on camera's anyway, and bear hunters will just have to spend physical time an their stands ?‍

But without cams, that hunter could be attacked from behind ??????

 

[slamdunk]

But without cams, that hunter could be attacked from behind ??????

Best valid point I've seen posted yet!!
It's a safety issue......reverse the law ?

 

[hossblur]

Speaking from personal experience, LEOs can, do and WILL, look up what tags people have for any reason they would like. Happens every day.

It’s not illegal to shoot trumpeters. Never has been in utah. Still isn’t. You just have a waiting period associated with it if you do. Kinda like drawing a LE or OIL tag. If you get a special opportunity and choose to take it, there’s a penalty to do so. It’s the exact same concept. Limiting opportunity for a limited resource. Trumpeters or moose. You still have a wait period of you choose to take the opportunity.

Coincidentally, bait used by guides, trumpeter swans targeted by guides and cams used by guides, are why we are having these discussions. There’s a common theme here. Maybe this has all been to lead up to the newest house bill directed at hunters.

But don’t say it’s “ILLEGAL” to shoot a trumpeter swan. I had you pegged as a much smarter person than that. I suppose i was wrong.

A "waiting period"??

You know who doesn't have a waiting period?

Dudes that don't shoot Trump's.

Ya. Exactly like LE hunts.

You have a deer tag, shoot an elk, and get a waiting period after. ?

I agree. We have a corporate hunting problem.

I live up here, we know who targets Trump's.

We know who was hauling in bait. We know who runs thousands of cams, and armies of spotters.

We, kept thinking they could control themselves, we were wrong.

So, now we have "waiting periods" for trump's, banned bait, cam seasons, and soon a law on spotters.

And, we still get lectures about how it's "the antis" causing the problems. The antis don't even have to make up lies, they just scroll

That "waiting" period(others would call it a PENALTY) came because the thousands of dudes screwed each year by a handful of others, got sick of it, and demanded it. It wasn't the Audubon Society.

Same happened with bait, cams, and soon spotters.

 

[hossblur]

DWR: " hey, 41 other states don't get to hunt tundra swans, could you just not shoot Trumpeters and 2600 of you get a rare opportunity each year"

Utard: " so youre saying go target Trumpeters"

If the DWR was smart, they would have encouraged semi loads of apples to be used to hunt deer. And each hunter to have 50 cams.

The Utards would have done the opposite, just to stick it to the man and his tyranny over freedom

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Yup.


LEO doesn't have access to tag database.

They'd never think to just look and see what tag you have, for where.

And you'll probably pick up a ticket for hunting turkeys with 30-06.

Can't wait for next year's meeting when all the guys who "never killed anything on cams", to show up at the total ban meeting to tell us "I just really love turkeys the 3rd week of October, don't take my cam"

I heard all the "really smart" dudes say for years that it wasn't "illegal" to shoot Trumpeter swans because there was no penalty.

Now there's a penalty.

The same will happen with the "smart guys" on cams

Have at it?

Have you seen all the post on Facebook hunting forums?

Every day these "Entitlement hunters" make comments like we have seen above.

Anti cam Hunters will start Enforcing this law.

They better watch it, or there will be a flat out ban on them.

.

 

[elkfromabove]

Are you implying that if somebody else has a recreational camera on a water hole that means you can't hunt in the same area?

That's like saying that if somebody else has a deer tag that you can't hunt that day because you'd be the second deer hunter and it's only legal to have one deer tag.

If somebody else drives up the road in the middle of the day with headlights on their wheeler, that doesn't mean you're hunting with artificial light because their headlights are on.

If somebody else is hunting grouse and you're archery hunting, that doesn't mean you're hunting deer with a shotgun just because somebody else is using one.

There's no plain reading of the law that would reach that conclusion.

So, like the dad whose son leaves his drug stash in the family car and unlike any of your examples which clearly show who is using what, all I have to do is tell the arresting officer that none of those cameras are mine and I'm good to go? You ought to know how hard it is in court to prove a negative or a non-action.

 

[JakeH]

, all I have to do is tell the arresting officer that none of those cameras are mine and I'm good to go?

As long as there is no evidence to show otherwise I guess you would be.

Just because someone has an illegal camera on a pond that you are hunting doesn't mean you can't hunt there.

But I guess if you think you can get away with putting up a cam and telling them its not yours when you get caught go ahead and try your luck.

 

[grizzly]

So, like the dad whose son leaves his drug stash in the family car and unlike any of your examples which clearly show who is using what, all I have to do is tell the arresting officer that none of those cameras are mine and I'm good to go? You ought to know how hard it is in court to prove a negative or a non-action.

I don't believe you to be a poacher. I also think you can imagine what our world would be like if we only passed laws that were easy to prove guilt instead of what was decided by society to be right and wrong.

 

[elkfromabove]

But I guess if you think you can get away with putting up a cam and telling them its not yours when you get caught go ahead and try your luck.

Are you implying I would do that? And, if there is no evidence, how would I get "caught"?

 

[elkfromabove]

I don't believe you to be a poacher. I also think you can imagine what our world would be like if we only passed laws that were easy to prove guilt instead of what was decided by society to be right and wrong.

A law as poorly written as this one may not be easy to prove guilt, but neither is it easy to prove innocence. Those "gray" areas are gray on both ends and the "right" or "wrong" of the law is poorly served.

 

[JakeH]

Are you implying I would do that? And, if there is no evidence, how would I get "caught"?

It kinda seemed like you was implying you would do that from your posts. I'm not accusing you of anything.

As far as getting caught if there's no evidence you wouldn't. You might be surprised at rhe ways they could prove it was your camera though.

 

[2lumpy]

Again, and again, and again……… I have no dog in this fight other than I believe it’s an unenforceable and will do nothing to preserve a declining mule deer population.

So…… If Billy Bob, who was no deer tag, walks into a water hole, covered in a dozen cameras, one of which belongs to the DWR, taking Billy Bob’s picture as he comes and goes. He puts up his camera, locks it up tight. Comes back during the deer hunt, swaps his whole camera for a different one, and leaves. Takes the first camera home. Some how the data off that camera finds its way into the eyes of a guide and/or a average joe tag holder for that unit. Can you prove it came from Billy Bob’s camera and not one of the other cameras. If so, how?

Yes, honest people won’t do break the law because it’s against the law, whether they support the law or not. We believe that but……….how will we know.

Here’s how, check these locations where you’ve seen many cameras on a single location, see if they are there in mid-June, take a picture of the cameras on that location, go back the first of September and see how many of the mid-June cameras are still there. Post up the before and after pictures.

If the cameras go way, the honest are being honest, if they are still there, the honest are’t. We’ll soon know how many non-hunters and non-tag holders are still using trail cameras.

If they disappear this year and three years later, they’re mostly back, we’ll know the new enforcement has not been successful.

 

[elkfromabove]

It kinda seemed like you was implying you would do that from your posts. I'm not accusing you of anything.

As far as getting caught if there's no evidence you wouldn't. You might be surprised at rhe ways they could prove it was your camera though.

Exactly why I posed the question! You and everybody else that comes upon the situation I posed would automatically think the worst of me and would hassle me about it and/or report it to the DWR. And just like baiting, I could be cited for hunting over a cam or told to move even if it's not mine! To tell the truth, I was even hassled by several different hunters about baiting years BEFORE it became illegal.

This law as proposed will drive wedges between big game hunters across the board. And the irony of it is, is that it will do NOTHING to save or increase the quantity or quality of the herds or hunting!

P.S. For FWIW, I own ONE trail cam that I bought on Ebay in 2010 from a lady in Clements MD. It's a Bushnell TrailScout that been in the shipping box in my basement storage room since my last Buck Pronghorn permit. And I've only used it for Buck Pronghorn Archery hunts just to make sure I have one coming to the waterhole.

 

[slamdunk]

What's wrong with sitting at the actual waterhole?
Just asking.....

 

[2lumpy]

Exactly why I posed the question! You and everybody else that comes upon the situation I posed would automatically think the worst of me and would hassle me about it and/or report it to the DWR. And just like baiting, I could be cited for hunting over a cam or told to move even if it's not mine! To tell the truth, I was even hassled by several different hunters about baiting years BEFORE it became illegal.

This law as proposed will drive wedges between big game hunters across the board. And the irony of it is, is that it will do NOTHING to save or increase the quantity or quality of the herds or hunting!

P.S. For FWIW, I own ONE trail cam that I bought on Ebay in 2010 from a lady in Clements MD. It's a Bushnell TrailScout that been in the shipping box in my basement storage room since my last Buck Pronghorn permit. And I've only used it for Buck Pronghorn Archery hunts just to make sure I have one coming to the waterhole.

Well, when it comes to dividing hunters…….. that ship sailed many years ago……… can’t get much more divided than we’ve been for 40 years. Sorry. Nothing to see here.

 

[elkfromabove]

What's wrong with sitting at the actual waterhole?
Just asking.....

Time, distance, gas money and wear and tear on me and my old Rodeo. I't's 5o+ miles one way on a dirt road. Add the walk from the hidden car to the waterhole. Plus, it wouldn't take long for them to know I was there and they would move to another waterhole.

Additionally, the Archery Deer, Elk and Pronghorn hunts are all at the same time and I usually have at least one other tag, so I have to plan my time carefully to get enough sleep and meals.

Finally, ALL buck pronghorn tags are LE, so I want to take a good one and a camera before the hunt has helped me do that.

Edited: I forgot one other ingredient, The HEAT! 90* to 95* in the shade!

 

[slamdunk]

Time, distance, gas money and wear and tear on me and my old Rodeo. I't's 5o+ miles one way on a dirt road. Add the walk from the hidden car to the waterhole. Plus, it wouldn't take long for them to know I was there and they would move to another waterhole.

Additionally, the Archery Deer, Elk and Pronghorn hunts are all at the same time and I usually have at least one other tag, so I have to plan my time carefully to get enough sleep and meals.

Finally, ALL buck pronghorn tags are LE, so I want to take a good one and a camera before the hunt has helped me do that.

Edited: I forgot one other ingredient, The HEAT! 90* to 95* in the shade!

Fair enough, I get it, and this is exactly why people use cameras......."for the intel".

 

[Elkslayer2015]

.

 

[hossblur]

Time, distance, gas money and wear and tear on me and my old Rodeo. I't's 5o+ miles one way on a dirt road. Add the walk from the hidden car to the waterhole. Plus, it wouldn't take long for them to know I was there and they would move to another waterhole.

Additionally, the Archery Deer, Elk and Pronghorn hunts are all at the same time and I usually have at least one other tag, so I have to plan my time carefully to get enough sleep and meals.

Finally, ALL buck pronghorn tags are LE, so I want to take a good one and a camera before the hunt has helped me do that.

Edited: I forgot one other ingredient, The HEAT! 90* to 95* in the shade!

So? That's kinda the point isn't it? I had an archery antelope tag. It's tough. Didn't arrow anything. Had a freaking blast.

If you HAVE to arrow something so badly that you need a cam to accomplish it, might be to e to just pick up a rifle.

That's what is meant by put the hunt back into hunting.

Too many have become killers, at any expense.

If you HAVE to have kill something so badly, perhaps a high fence hunt?

 

[elkfromabove]

So? That's kinda the point isn't it? I had an archery antelope tag. It's tough. Didn't arrow anything. Had a freaking blast.

If you HAVE to arrow something so badly that you need a cam to accomplish it, might be to e to just pick up a rifle.

That's what is meant by put the hunt back into hunting.

Too many have become killers, at any expense.

If you HAVE to have kill something so badly, perhaps a high fence hunt?

And that's my point! You make a lot of assumptions about how someone else likes to or has to hunt and why and because it doesn't fit your style or your ethical model, then you want to change it by making laws against it. You want to FORCE your version if ethics on those who don't agree with you by making theirs illegal!

Furthermore, your approach is a typical Monster Muleys approach. It goes from me using a camera to scout before a pronghorn hunt to "killlers at any expense" and "high fence hunt" with no room for anything in between.

You had one archery tag and found it "tough". . Try doing it when you're 59 and have A-fib and 2 bad valves and are in 91* heat following one you wounded because the vanes hit the burlap on a make shift modification on a hand-built blind. Five hours and 3 miles later he couldn't go any further trying to get back to the waterhole, but I did and I ended it with another arrow when we were about 200 yards from where it started. P & Y 74 6/8" with tip to tip 3/8". Near perfect heart shape. And that happened 22 years ago! (Do the math!) I've had 4 archery buck pronghorn tags and have taken only one other buck pronghorn since then. 10 Archery elk tags = one cow and one P & Y bull. Archery buck deer tags? I don't remember, but I've taken 6 buck deer with a bow. Take up a rifle? Why do you think I have only used a bow for most of my buck and bull tags since I was 25 or 26? Rifle hunting got too easy.

I'm not sure why I'm explaining all of this to you, but I'm done with this thread. Bottom line, this law allows cameras to be used for non-hunting purposes during hunting seasons, but doesn't regulate nor register them for identification so no one but the owners know whether or not they are legal and that leads to most people believing they are not, just like you did!

 

[hossblur]

And that's my point! You make a lot of assumptions about how someone else likes to or has to hunt and why and because it doesn't fit your style or your ethical model, then you want to change it by making laws against it. You want to FORCE your version if ethics on those who don't agree with you by making theirs illegal!

Furthermore, your approach is a typical Monster Muleys approach. It goes from me using a camera to scout before a pronghorn hunt to "killlers at any expense" and "high fence hunt" with no room for anything in between.

You had one archery tag and found it "tough". . Try doing it when you're 59 and have A-fib and 2 bad valves and are in 91* heat following one you wounded because the vanes hit the burlap on a make shift modification on a hand-built blind. Five hours and 3 miles later he couldn't go any further trying to get back to the waterhole, but I did and I ended it with another arrow when we were about 200 yards from where it started. P & Y 74 6/8" with tip to tip 3/8". Near perfect heart shape. And that happened 22 years ago! (Do the math!) I've had 4 archery buck pronghorn tags and have taken only one other buck pronghorn since then. 10 Archery elk tags = one cow and one P & Y bull. Archery buck deer tags? I don't remember, but I've taken 6 buck deer with a bow. Take up a rifle? Why do you think I have only used a bow for most of my buck and bull tags since I was 25 or 26? Rifle hunting got too easy.

I'm not sure why I'm explaining all of this to you, but I'm done with this thread. Bottom line, this law allows cameras to be used for non-hunting purposes during hunting seasons, but doesn't regulate nor register them for identification so no one but the owners know whether or not they are legal and that leads to most people believing they are not, just like you did!

I've got 32 years of sheetrock on my back. Meaning I won't be backpacking into the wilderness.

That's just life. I don't expect to drive a sxs into it. I simply look at what's available and what I can do.

Ruffle hunting got so easy, you put it down and picked up a camera?

 

[Silentstalker]

“Put the hunt back into hunting” says the guys shooting rifles 600 plus yards at game.

You want to limit harvest and “save” a few big bucks, you have got to limit rifle hunting. They have the biggest share of tags and the highest success rates.

It’s not trail cams killing the bucks. It’s rifles. End of story.

 

[elkfromabove]

I've got 32 years of sheetrock on my back. Meaning I won't be backpacking into the wilderness.

That's just life. I don't expect to drive a sxs into it. I simply look at what's available and what I can do.

Ruffle hunting got so easy, you put it down and picked up a camera?

I was through with this thread until I saw 5 more posts referring to my last post and wondered why. It turns out, with your last sentence, you apparently again made an assumption about someone's motives and actions you know nothing about.

So maybe you can tell me what my picking up a bow in 1962 because I found it more challenging, rewarding and fun than a "ruffle" and I wanted to hunt deer with my future father-in-law (I borrowed his bow.), what does that have to do with my picking up a camera in 2017 to scout for a mature pronghorn prior to the hunt because I can no longer risk my health to do it like you think I should. You legally do it your way and I will legally do it mine.

Also, you not only made a false assumption about me, you made an apples to oranges connection between my hunting weapons and cameras. While I "hunt' with my bow during the season, I "scout" with my camera BEFORE the season to identify a mature buck, which BTW is still legal. In fact, my guess is that with this law in place there will be MORE people using trail cams during the hunting seasons than there are now. This law is a Pandora's box! Have fun trying to close it!

 

[hossblur]

I was through with this thread until I saw 5 more posts referring to my last post and wondered why. It turns out, with your last sentence, you apparently again made an assumption about someone's motives and actions you know nothing about.

So maybe you can tell me what my picking up a bow in 1962 because I found it more challenging, rewarding and fun than a "ruffle" and I wanted to hunt deer with my future father-in-law (I borrowed his bow.), what does that have to do with my picking up a camera in 2017 to scout for a mature pronghorn prior to the hunt because I can no longer risk my health to do it like you think I should. You legally do it your way and I will legally do it mine.

Also, you not only made a false assumption about me, you made an apples to oranges connection between my hunting weapons and cameras. While I "hunt' with my bow during the season, I "scout" with my camera BEFORE the season to identify a mature buck, which BTW is still legal. In fact, my guess is that with this law in place there will be MORE people using trail cams during the hunting seasons than there are now. This law is a Pandora's box! Have fun trying to close it!

The guys who think they are the cleverest, will close the box.

But they were the same guys who opened it.

It's this ride. Round and round we go, with guys who use cams, telling other guys with cams a fairytale.

I have cams. I know what they do. 24/7/365 monitoring. Spin it however you want, but that's just a fact.

Yeah. It would be nice if dudes could check themselves, but once we interjected big money into hunting, the same corruption took place as it does in all other industry.

If your pissed about cams, contact WLH, Mossback, DC hunting. They screwed YOU

 

[Bigwiffy]

I was through with this thread until I saw 5 more posts referring to my last post and wondered why. It turns out, with your last sentence, you apparently again made an assumption about someone's motives and actions you know nothing about.

So maybe you can tell me what my picking up a bow in 1962 because I found it more challenging, rewarding and fun than a "ruffle" and I wanted to hunt deer with my future father-in-law (I borrowed his bow.), what does that have to do with my picking up a camera in 2017 to scout for a mature pronghorn prior to the hunt because I can no longer risk my health to do it like you think I should. You legally do it your way and I will legally do it mine.

Also, you not only made a false assumption about me, you made an apples to oranges connection between my hunting weapons and cameras. While I "hunt' with my bow during the season, I "scout" with my camera BEFORE the season to identify a mature buck, which BTW is still legal. In fact, my guess is that with this law in place there will be MORE people using trail cams during the hunting seasons than there are now. This law is a Pandora's box! Have fun trying to close it!

They don't understand it Elk. They've summed up their ignorance. Slam can't figure out why you wouldn't just shoot the antelope with a gun from your truck at 800 yards. Hoss summed up the whole point in his comment basically saying "if you want to kill something just pick up a gun" don't waste your time arguing with stupid. I've tried haha! Gun hunter's will never understand archery hunters, just do your thing. The good thing is 95% of these guys won't be in the woods during the archery hunt. The other 5% will be gone as soon as the dedicated hunter program gets banned.

 

[slamdunk]

They don't understand it Elk. They've summed up their ignorance. Slam can't figure out why you wouldn't just shoot the antelope with a gun from your truck at 800 yards. Hoss summed up the whole point in his comment basically saying "if you want to kill something just pick up a gun" don't waste your time arguing with stupid. I've tried haha! Gun hunter's will never understand archery hunters, just do your thing. The good thing is 95% of these guys won't be in the woods during the archery hunt. The other 5% will be gone as soon as the dedicated hunter program gets banned.

You really do need to have that 4.3 reevaluated

 

[hossblur]

They don't understand it Elk. They've summed up their ignorance. Slam can't figure out why you wouldn't just shoot the antelope with a gun from your truck at 800 yards. Hoss summed up the whole point in his comment basically saying "if you want to kill something just pick up a gun" don't waste your time arguing with stupid. I've tried haha! Gun hunter's will never understand archery hunters, just do your thing. The good thing is 95% of these guys won't be in the woods during the archery hunt. The other 5% will be gone as soon as the dedicated hunter program gets banned.

I do all 3.

Supposedly, the reason guys get into archery is to add challenges.

That was the point, which as usual you missed by 800yrds.

Kinda hard you seek challenges, they NEED a 24/7/365 scouting device

 

[Bigwiffy]

I do all 3.

Supposedly, the reason guys get into archery is to add challenges.

That was the point, which as usual you missed by 800yrds.

Kinda hard you seek challenges, they NEED a 24/7/365 scouting device

You've obviously never bowhunted, and are so far from the realities of trail cameras it's comical.

 

[Bigwiffy]

You really do need to have that 4.3 reevaluated

Nah it's accurate.

 

[BrookeyJade85]

The guys who think they are the cleverest, will close the box.

But they were the same guys who opened it.

It's this ride. Round and round we go, with guys who use cams, telling other guys with cams a fairytale.

I have cams. I know what they do. 24/7/365 monitoring. Spin it however you want, but that's just a fact.

Yeah. It would be nice if dudes could check themselves, but once we interjected big money into hunting, the same corruption took place as it does in all other industry.

If your pissed about cams, contact WLH, Mossback, DC hunting. They screwed YOU

 

[hossblur]

Welcome I guess? We sure did get an influx of new members after the guides lost their cams. Can't imagine how many we will get after they lose their spotters.