Utah DWR at ISE

Robiland

Robiland

Very Active Member
Messages
2,132
I stopped by at the Exop Thursday night to shoot the archery 3D pop up tourny, Lots of fun.

While there, I stopped by the DWR booth and asked the guys there if they were going to take back the public tags the SFW take and sells to the rich and famous while the average Joe never gets to buy those tags?

4 different responses by the 3 guys there.

GUY1= smiles and says "yep it would be a good thing if we could, join Ducks unlimited, they do good stuff".

Guy2= Smiles, "yep, thats a touchy subject, but you know with the conservation permits, we do get most of that back for projects."

Me = "why dont YOU guys take those 500 plus tags and sell and use the money for you guys and projects and tools/equipment?"

Guy2= smiles

Guy3= "go to your rack meeting to get voted in and go to the board and tell them what you all want."

ME= "done Peay runs the whole thing with SFW, we average guys dont have a chance!!!"

All of the Guys= Thanks for your support have a good night.

For me, it was kind of frusterating. They seemed to care but at the same time, it was as if thier hands were tied and they wanted to say something but knew they could'nt.

I would enourage all of you that might be going, to stop by and voice your opinion on the subject. Tell them to let the DWR take those tags and sell them for the DWR to pay for extra patroling, airiel shooting of Yotes and trapping and what ever else needs to be done. OR to put those tags back into the general public draw.

Just my 2 bits.
 
I'll bet the DWR guys get asked that same questions so many times that all they can do now is "Smile", pause for a second while the thought "here is another concerned sportsman asking the same question that the last 5,000 sportsman that walked by the both has asked". Here is a thought, how about giving the guys credit once in a while for the positive things they do. It seems like all we do is ##### about everything they do.

Just a thought!

400bull
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-12 AT 08:42AM (MST)[p]>I'll bet the DWR guys get
>asked that same questions so
>many times that all they
>can do now is "Smile",
>pause for a second while
>the thought "here is another
>concerned sportsman asking the same
>question that the last 5,000
>sportsman that walked by the
>both has asked". Here is
>a thought, how about giving
>the guys credit once in
>a while for the positive
>things they do. It seems
>like all we do is
>##### about everything they do.
>
>
>Just a thought!
>
>400bull

+1
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
 
Just an FYI, I did not biotch att them, in fact I did exactly what you said. I thanked them for what they did and hoped that things get better for them and the wildlife here in Utah.

I dont always agree with what they do or how they do things, but because I love the outdoors and hunting so much, I do support them.
 
We also need to realize that talking to the DWR employees that are staffing a booth at a sportsman expo regarding the conservation permits is a little like talking to the 7th grade gym teacher regarding a decision made by the school board.

A pleasant smile and a comment to move the conversation in a different direction is exactly what I would expect to happen.
 
when dwr promotes pople like blackwell they have a big problem. what a f joke''
 
kinda funny robinland, first you encourage people to go by and voice their opinion, then you tell them just exactally what their opinion should be? Maybe i'll ask them why their deer counts population estimates are so screwed up and why they SELL those tags to the SFW,MDF,and the RMEF in the first place? In the DWR's eyes most southwestern general units are at or just below carrying capacity, so they think they're doing a bang up job down south. Maybe its time to start blaming the people who are in charge of managing the deer and quit blaming one organazation for a problem they have little control over. The SFW doesnt issue doe tags, they dont do population classifications, they dont decide carrying capacities, they dont determine lion tag #s or season dates,or trapping laws. They do however fund habitat projects,predator bountys,and lobby for additional funds to fight legal battles such as the wolf issues. Thats only some of the things they do but by all means blame them for losing yer job,4 Oclock traffic, yer wife cheatin on you, global warming, that stupid rich guy that gets to hunt on his piece of private and kills a big buck every year (even though we know he didnt deserve it right), and so on?
 
When I have been on jobsites, even though not the owner of the company I represented it. Yeah these guys have no power. Nor do I expect them to lose their job fighting for things. However, the DWR loves to talk out their azzes about speaking up, being involved, etc.., but then set up a structure in which the average dude gets a couple of minutes, then the groups get the same time for each and every one of there members. It is no wonder they believe SFW and the like speak for the hunters. Wonder what it would be like if average joe got 3 min, and only one rep from a group got the same. I say every time you see DWR, let them no how displeased you are, squeaky wheel gets the grease.



When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
Robi,

Or maybe they are ok with the current system??? I know that's is just crazy a thought! But it's just a guess just like yours!
 
Hoss,

I did not say not to let the DWR know your thoughts. How many times have you heard someone complain about the DWR and their decisions? It seems like every time I turn around someone is complaining. Maybe, just maybe if they received half as many complements as they do criticism they would start listening to the general public's wants.

400bull
 
Think i'll stop by and givem an atta boy on saturday, and see what they say about things. i'll talk really quiet and askem if they are happy with things like muley73's guess. who knows maybe they are.
 
Robiland I totally agree with you on the tags. I for one wish there were no expo period.And as far as the convention tags go I feel there is no reason to have a third party involved(SFW).This whole deal is so twisted, those tags belong to the state of Utah and its everyday people. If we really need these tags to be taken out of the draw and set aside I say let the D.W.R do it.We all know that these tags will sell themselves with little advertising. I think the dwr should take these tags away from the control of SFW first of all. Then I think they should give these hunts away at the I.S.E event thats happening this week and just handle it them selves.Lord knows it wouldn't be hard to beat the net amount of money that is currentley going back into wildlife or the money that really hits the ground.After looking at the GRAMA request the U.W.C filed against SFW expo funds I would think that it would be easy to beat the 15% return that wildlife is seeing with the currrent system.I would also assume that taking the tarnished SFW name off of the ballot would bring even more people to apply than ever before. I think it would be a win win. The state would get the money they deserve and the wildlife would get alot bigger chunk of the pie thrown their way. I know that I would sure feel better about the whole deal. Why wouldn't this work?
 
Muley,
That comment about the dwr liking the new system is funny. Im yet to talk to anyone working for our dwr that has given me any kind of positive feed back on how they are going to handle the new work load that they feel has been dumped on them this next fall.Thats like me saying to my employes "OK guys this year your work load will be increased by 5 fold, you will not be getting a raise and no we will not be hiring any more help."Do you think that any of them would say "You know I really like this new plan!"Me neither.You need to get real.
 
So the tags are only evil and catering to the wealthy and ruining hunting for the average Joe because they are sold by SFW? If the DWR sells them then all is good and right in Tardville????

Again the DWRs failure the properly manage our deer herds is the reason SFW exists. FACT....SFW dissolving tomorrow does not benefit hunters or wildlife in the state of UT. The SFW is merely a product of poor management not a root cause!!!! If they are gone tomorrow we would still have the exact same issues, minus a powerful organized sportsmens voice to fight many battles.
 
No accountability=no care....that's the simple truth of it right there...

littlebeaver.jpg
 
Cache,
In the real world I would replace a poor employee that had nothing but excuses for their failure. In fact I have to do just that on occasion. If 5 fold of work had been done to begin with we would be in a better position.

Most employees dont like to be asked to do more, especially when they are not good to being with. Those that are good and excel, are employees that don't usually have to be asked to do more, but when they are they find a way and continue to excel. Do I believe the DWR has good employees? Absolutly!!! Many of them. However their over all management sceme has not been successful. If that means 5 fold the work needs to be done then so be it. Let's get it done and be successful going forward. That's what successful business's do!!!

They receive most of the dollars back for the SFW. In fact the original tags given to the SFW where DWRs idea. Not SFW asking for them. If the money from those tags is not enough to cover budgets it's an easy fix. Increase the cost of general tags. We don't have to just add more tags. Bump the price up to cover the cost, that way we can all share the bourden of the budget short falls.
 
News flash! the big gripe with the SFW and the expo tags is the amont of money going back into the wildlife in this state.Isn't that what the whole deal was in the beginning?If you can look at the GRAMA report and tell me that out of the 3.4 million dollars brought in by the SFW that a significant amount of that went into the betterment of our wildlife and not into certain peoples wallets your out to lunch buddy.I feel people want to see these tags better our wildlife and not the SFW bank account.Only in Utah would the everyday sportsmen allow such a thing to exist.This is the closest thing to highway robbery in the hunting world ever.So let's here it muley why couldn't the dwr hold their own expo or even do it them selves at the I .S.E?
 
The dwr does not get anything back from SFW other than the actual cost of the tag which someone draws.They would of got the very same amount if that same tag was left in the general pool of permits.
 
Convention tags yes that money goes to the SFW and...... MDF. Funny how they get left out in the rock throwing.

But I still believe that the dollars are going into a group that is fighting for our wildlife. SFW is willing to jump into fights that the DWR can't or is unwilling to jump into. Politics takes money and that is where the fight is as much as we all hate it.

You say wake up??? I've been aware of the issues and root causes before you ever started reading forums and thinking you were well informed. Ignorance is bliss I guess???

It is going to take more than glorified scout service projects and whining on the Internet to save our deer herds. It's money and politics....it always has been!!! Until money is not an issue science will never be fully utilized.
 
From what I have seens anyone can buy the tags? I have a buddy that lobby's and he said SFW put up most of the money for the bill to get passed that will be in control of yotes next year. $50 dollars a head and more heli money for shooters. I didn't buy a tag because I don't have the money but I don't get mad when I see someone driving a new truck either. Just me but if the SFW did fund the yotes shoot next year well then thats money well spent??
 
>Convention tags yes that money goes
>to the SFW and...... MDF.
> Funny how they get
>left out in the rock
>throwing.
>
>But I still believe that the
>dollars are going into a
>group that is fighting for
>our wildlife. SFW is
>willing to jump into fights
>that the DWR can't or
>is unwilling to jump into.
> Politics takes money and
>that is where the fight
>is as much as we
>all hate it.
>
>>
>
>It is going to take more
>than glorified scout service projects
>and whining on the Internet
>to save our deer herds.
> It's money and politics....it
>always has been!!! Until
>money is not an issue
>science will never be fully
>utilized.


haha good stuff muley73. You make the point a lot of hunters are saying, get the freaking money (con tags) and politics out of the equation so SCIENCE can be fully utilized. gonna be an interesting couple of years coming up.hubby says lots of big changes coming to Utah and the west, we'll see I guess.
 
Con tags are not the problem!!!! The fact that the DWR is funded my overall rag sells is the problem. The general tags!!!! They over sell to meet budget. They don't follow their biologists numbers or model numbers. They use those as a starting point then add tags to meet budget. Science goes out the window when they come up short on budget. Which is every year.

TAKING AWAY CONSERVATION AND CONVENTION TAGS SOLVES NOTHIING IN THE BIG PICTURE!!!!!

Sounds like there is already some shake ups happening at the Division, it will be intresting to see how it all plays out.....
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-17-12 AT 09:08AM (MST)[p]havoc1---Have you seen the low return of money that SFW gets? If you haven't, you might want to take a look because it's only about 15% of total money they take in that goes back to anything relaitng to wildlife. Where do you think the money you're talking about on the yote deal is coming from? If you haven't figured it out, it's money that went into the tag sales and that was money that came out of hunter's pockets to begin with.
"From what I have seens anyone can buy the tags?" What do you call anyone? You just said you don't have the money, so I guess "anyone" can't buy them. How many people are bidding on those tags and what percentage of the public do they represent? My guess would be a fraction of 1%, which is not "anyone"! With the big money those tags go for, please don't try to relate that with people buying a friggin vehicle for transportation that they have to have and that's probably spread out in monthly payments for 3 to 6 years now! If you think the yote money is well spent, did you ever think that maybe the hunters themselves could get together for soem fun weekends and do it for free while putting that money into game habitat?
 
From what I understand the 50.00 bounty is going to get funded by us through raising the price of the general deer tag.I have heard nothing in regards to any of this money going into flying .This is simply the same bounty we have had before just with a higher pay out per dog no profesionals involved .I feel that 100% of these funds should go into airial gunning which is the only proven tactic at putting a dent in dog population.Sending Harry, Richard and Jane out there to wage a war on coyotes will do nothing but educate them to the point that soon it will impossible to call them in at all.Think about it there has always been people out there trying to kill coyotes .It is proven that if you take out 70% of the population year after year you will lower the overall numbers but kill less than that and kill the alfa females at the wrong time can cause the opposite effect.More females will come into heat that normally would't have, thus having more pups .The only way to kill that % of the population is to gun them from the air at the right times which is very expensive but effective.
 
"TAKING AWAY CONSERVATION AND CONVENTION TAGS SOLVES NOTHIING IN THE BIG PICTURE!!!!!"


Yea, what the heck guys, it's only 2 or 3 million dollars wasted!!!
 
Wasted??? Topgun, please tell me a little bit about the state of UT....say 30 years ago or even 25? How the battle against the antis and such were going?
 
No, why don't you tell us all how great the battle is going on right now, LOL! Anyway, what the he** does that have to with what we're taking about? You use the same technique that many do when they are losing a discussion or conversation and that is CHANGE THE SUBJECT! Good try though---NOT! I hope you aren't referring to the underhanded garbage the SFW pulled telling everyone they were #1 in getting the wolves delisted when they were #1 in trying to kill the rider! Get real man! They are worse than all the antis put together because at least we know outwardly what the antis stand for.
 
Actually exactly my point! I did not change the subject! I asked for you thoughts about the past. The past is what has brought us to this point. It's the whole big picture. Not just your immediate agenda.

My agenda is to have healthy viable herds for my children and their children to enjoy and hunt. I believe yours to only be anti SFW. Thanks or your concern from afar.

So again I'll ask, pleas tell me a little bit about the conditions and atmosphere in UT 25-30 years ago. Tell me how successful the sportsmen were in the fights to control predators, on increasing elk herds, on bring in more wild sheep, on fighting the TRUE ANTIs. Tell me how many days a year you currently spend in UT or have spent in the last 30 years? Day in and day out seeing the changes positive and negative with our wildlife. This is all ON SUbJECT so please share your knowledge.
 
You got one thing right and that's the stance I've taken on SFW. They may do some good things, but what could they do if the members got all the money they should be for on-the-ground projects, instead of just a small fraction of the money taken in like is happening? Did you see that over $1 million went for consultant fees and other garbage on that one tax return alone that was posted to show the money isn't going where it should be! I've already openly stated a couple times that I have only been through Utah on vacation and have no plans to apply for licenses in the future there. All I can do is go by what I read and hear from you guys on the ground out there and the majortiy agree with you that the deer numbers suck. Where the majority disagree with you is that you seem to feel SFW is still the answer. If SFW was the answer, there wouldn't be the continued decline of deer numbers. Now DP says he will double the numbers in several years with this new predator program. What will he use to gain more money for the next bogus project when the numbers don't come up to that leve? I have no idea what you mean when you talk about the SFW fighting the antis. It appears they are doing a lot more fighting against the true average Joe hunter than anything else! It is undisputed fact that the SFW/BFG tried to deep six the wolf rider and ever since it passed and all these victories are being won in the courts and wolves hunted, they are trying to convince everyone they were the leading force behind it---BS! Give the tags back to the DWR and let all hunters have a shot at them and SFW can be the great organization a bunch of you think they are by collecting dues and running Expos with their own money, instead of funds sucked from those who want nothing to do with their agenda. That agenda is obviously vastly in favor of those with big money and the outfitters that cater to them and not the majority of hunters!
 
Well--We just got home from the ISE show.

Very--very enjoyable.

It got a pinch crowded but that is a good thing---

Yup we stopped in at the U-DWR booth and expresed our desire to get rid of the Welfare Mamma's 500 + tags and the 200 Scam-Po tags.

Talk about state employees sucking the ole nut's up---not one of them would say yah or na....why are they so scared of Donnie Boy's ownership of our DWR??

It was nice to express our lack of desire for all the 700 + 'Charity Paycheck' tags.

Travel safe All back and forth to the ISE show...

Robb
 
Topgun, talk about drinking the UWC koolaid!
I guarantee that the SFW has done more to help wildlife in the state of Utah than they've done to hurt. The only thing you know is that some of the money isnt being spent wisely. Well when's the last time you've seen the UDWR spend all the money they have wisely? Get real the DWR wastes more money than all the sportmans groups combined. I'm not all in for any of the conservation groups but i'm certainly not gonna cut my nose off to spite my face. Use common sense and realize that more good has come from sportmans uniting to raise dollars to fight anti's and have a stonger voice when it comes to managing wildlife and holding some of the state personel's feet to the fire.

Besides if dont plan on hunting in Utah anytime and dont come here regularly your opinion doesnt matter! Its just like getting a california judge to rule against delisting wolves in another state that he doesnt have to deal with. SO BUTT OUT!
 
Pretty good when ehogh says in one sentence that we should all get together, but seeing as how a bunch of us don't like the SFW, then BUTT OUT! I could give a rip if hog gets any tags with that attitude, but I won't butt out until DP and his band of merry thieves are ousted and are no longer a threat to the states I do want to hunt in, like AZ!!!
 
>Con tags are not the problem!!!!
>The fact that the DWR
>is funded my overall rag
>sells is the problem.
>The general tags!!!! They over
>sell to meet budget.
>They don't follow their biologists
>numbers or model numbers.
>They use those as a
>starting point then add tags
>to meet budget. Science
>goes out the window when
>they come up short on
>budget. Which is every year.
>
>
>TAKING AWAY CONSERVATION AND CONVENTION TAGS
>SOLVES NOTHIING IN THE BIG
>PICTURE!!!!!
>
>Sounds like there is already some
>shake ups happening at the
>Division, it will be intresting
>to see how it all
>plays out.....


hmmmmmmm....i'll get back to you on those thoughts and others you have made, gonna do some homework. ;-)
 
But Topgun, You can hunt Arizona because DP and what you call his merry band of thiefs have nothing to do in Arizona.
 
>But Topgun, You can hunt
>Arizona because DP and what
>you call his merry band
>of thiefs have nothing to
>do in Arizona.


Yet... x(
 

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