Thermal Binoculars and Scopes

[andrew12gauge]

I wonder what the consensus from hunters would be if they cost as much as, say, a rangefinder. Would hunters still think it’s not fair chase if everyone already owned one or could easily afford it? Does “fair” refer to the chase of game, or competition with other hunters with more disposable income? Ha

For the record I’ve not used it, and it does sound like a massive improvement in capability that skews the contest too much. Takes a lot of skill and luck out and replaces it with gadgetry, not good.

I wouldn’t care if they gave a free thermal bino with each deer tag purchase, these have no place in fair chase hunting. Full stop

 

[elkassassin]

I Don't Own Any Of Them Either!

But Truth Be Known,Most DRAT'S Have Them!

They Use Every Advantage Imaginable!

Rather It Be Fair Or Not!

But Nobody In This State Can Figure Out Why The Deer Herd In This State Is Suffering!

Until 50+ Reasons Why Are Comprehended It's Never Gonna Change!

I wonder what the consensus from hunters would be if they cost as much as, say, a rangefinder. Would hunters still think it’s not fair chase if everyone already owned one or could easily afford it? Does “fair” refer to the chase of game, or competition with other hunters with more disposable income? Ha

For the record I’ve not used it, and it does sound like a massive improvement in capability that skews the contest too much. Takes a lot of skill and luck out and replaces it with gadgetry, not good.

 

[elkassassin]

And Just When You Get To Thinking: What Else Will We See?

Another Piece Of GADGETRY Shows Up!

I'm Waiting For The Heat-Seeking Bullets!

I Know They're Out There!

Just Waiting For Them To Show Up In The Hunting World!

 

[hawkbill]

And Just When You Get To Thinking: What Else Will We See?

Another Piece Of GADGETRY Shows Up!

I'm Waiting For The Heat-Seeking Bullets!

I Know They're Out There!

Just Waiting For Them To Show Up In The Hunting World!

From what everyone that has used them or seen them m they are devastating to wildlife. Todays trophy hunter is not satisfied with just binos and a spotter.. We already have the never ending over lapping seasons, why not harass them all night too.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

The more I pay attention the more I notice deceitfulness in the hunting world. People were killing big bucks over apples all the time yet they will never post the apple pile or mention it. Also, a lot of these big bucks are taken on private land but they sure keep that quiet. Also, people are shooting bucks at night down in Mexico but they keep that quiet. If you're doing those things why are you hiding it, you must be ashamed of it. The hunting world is not what it seems. Much respect to those people out there hunting ethically on public land.

 

[hawkbill]

I have friend that owns one of the biggest Mule Deer collections in the World, its truly amazing to look at his collection. Let’s just say the bigger bucks with unique racks are bringing 30,000.00 to 50,0000.00 now with the giant state records bring more, finders fees 10,000 to 20,000 for finding big book Deer, night optics, airplanes, helicopters, trail cams, bait piles, salt licks, spotters and radios. I’m not seeing a lot of Fair Chase these days , but I guess that’s all in the eyes of the Guide or hunter.

 

[fullthrottle]

I would go as far to say. Thermal is probably the most impactful, and efficient tool for finding anything with body heat. You just can’t hide from thermal. It has zero place in fair chase hunting. This needs to be getting way more attention from those making the rules, more then say: radios, trail cams, planes, bait, etc.
Thermal is very impressive and fun to use. The temptation to bust out a thermal monocular to find game is hard not to do. It completely changes the game. I can glass semi thick cover with a btx until my eyes bleed and not find anything. Bust out a thermal on a cool morning and game pops out like a headlamp in the dark. Really shouldn’t even be able to have a thermal in your possession while big game hunting. That’s the only way to stop it. Not in your pack, not in your truck, not on the quad, Nothing.
I own quality thermal and love it. But it has no place for hunting big game. If you want to use your thermal for bucks and bulls, go hunt a high fence.

 

[asolde]

I say if it is legal and you can afford them and you want to use them why not. Otherwise it’s just another gadget.

 

[LIK2HNT]

And I thought NR’s were the problem.

 

[Mallardsx2]

And I thought NR’s were the problem.

 

[slamdunk]

Boone and Crockett doesn't (or didnt at least) allow the use of any radio devices in the harvest of animals in their record book.

As a guide for 20+ years and knowing the "business end of things", i can guarantee you there are a lot of animals in the books that were killed by a Motorola.

 

[Vanilla]

The more I pay attention the more I notice deceitfulness in the hunting world. People were killing big bucks over apples all the time yet they will never post the apple pile or mention it. Also, a lot of these big bucks are taken on private land but they sure keep that quiet. Also, people are shooting bucks at night down in Mexico but they keep that quiet. If you're doing those things why are you hiding it, you must be ashamed of it. The hunting world is not what it seems. Much respect to those people out there hunting ethically on public land.

And the crazy thing is there are people that claim “cameras don’t make me a better hunter” or “bait piles don’t make me a better hunter” or “planes don’t make me a better hunter” or even in this very thread “thermal vision doesn’t make me a better hunter.”

I guess if we want to get technical, they are all correct. None of those things actually help you increase your skills as a hunter. But they are completely full of it if the day it won’t help them find and kill more animals in a much easier way.

 

[slamdunk]

And the crazy thing is there are people that claim “cameras don’t make me a better hunter” or “bait piles don’t make me a better hunter” or “planes don’t make me a better hunter” or even in this very thread “thermal vision doesn’t make me a better hunter.”

I guess if we want to get technical, they are all correct. None of those things actually help you increase your skills as a hunter. But they are completely full of it if the day it won’t help them find and kill more animals in a much easier way.

100%

Yet look at the praise all these outfitters and social media nit wits get from their "success".

I personally know guides who stay in camp all day and only scout at night.

We wonder how these guys are so successful year after year, especially on public land units?

There were (still are) several pieces of the puzzle to internet stardom.
Cams, baiting, thermal imagery, and army of eyes with very tight lips.

But that's today's "success" whether we choose to call it hunting or just killing.

 

[hawkbill]

It sure looks like there is wide spread abuse, Thermal almost seems like a drug, once you start you can’t stop. I appreciate all the responses to the thread. I am going to look through them when I get a chance. I’ve heard from sportsmen, guides and military , how about the high country hunters are they abusing them too? Let’s take Wyoming Region G for example, very sought after tag, it sure seems like a fellow that was in good shape could rip some of that country apart with a pair of thermals. We all know there has been drone abuse and flying there.

 

[slamdunk]

It sure looks like there is wide spread abuse, Thermal almost seems like a drug, once you start you can’t stop. I appreciate all the responses to the thread. I am going to look through them when I get a chance. I’ve heard from sportsmen, guides and military , how about the high country hunters are they abusing them too? Let’s take Wyoming Region G for example, very sought after tag, it sure seems like a fellow that was in good shape could rip some of that country apart with a pair of thermals. We all know there has been drone abuse and flying there.

It's been being used for a very long time as an intricate tool in finding giant nocturnal bucks, especially in high traffic public units, it's just being discovered by the GP in the last couple years.

 

[hawkbill]

Thank You for being so honest, if we all don’t stop this crap we will for surely loose it. Slam I am returning from Flagstaff to Idaho , I just went through Spanish Fork I would also like to thank you and the Mule Deer Foundation for saving thousands of Deer with all your great highway crossing projects. I saw very few dead animals

 

[slamdunk]

Thank You for being so honest, if we all don’t stop this crap we will for surely loose it. Slam I am returning from Flagstaff to Idaho , I just went through Spanish Fork I would also like to thank you and the Mule Deer Foundation for saving thousands of Deer with all your great highway crossing projects. I saw very few dead animals

Thank you kind Sir, but i don't deserve the credit, I am a very small piece of a very huge puzzle that still has a lifetime of work needed done.

I would recommend you get involved with the Idaho chapter in your area (if not already) and be a part of a massive mission that needs our help.

Safe travels my friend, Idaho is a last frontier, I miss living there......except the winters

 

[LIK2HNT]

@hawkbill I am not sure if/how this will ever stop. Back in the 90’s I was surprised at all the 3x9 scopes on Utah muzzleloaders. I think the aging DIY hunter is being left in the dust to pickup the scraps. Getting harder and harder to complete with big money/egos/troops of spotters/etc.
Remember years ago complaining about competing with a chute plane once in awhile. Now it’s helicopters, drones, finder fees, etc. Surprised NASA has not got involved selling satellite imagery time.

 

[hawkbill]

It really does seem that the guy trying to do everything fair chase is far behind especially after reading this thread

 

[slamdunk]

@hawkbill I am not sure if/how this will ever stop. Back in the 90’s I was surprised at all the 3x9 scopes on Utah muzzleloaders. I think the aging DIY hunter is being left in the dust to pickup the scraps. Getting harder and harder to complete with big money/egos/troops of spotters/etc.
Remember years ago complaining about competing with a chute plane once in awhile. Now it’s helicopters, drones, finder fees, etc. Surprised NASA has not got involved selling satellite imagery time.

All of which are now illegal in Utah, but there will always be cheaters looking for the advantages.

As finding giant bucks continues to dwindle down, new ways and tactics will emerge to keep these "Pro's" at the top of their game.

Nothing would destroy that industry faster than bigger, older bucks on the landscape so more guys would DIY versus pay for cheating to get it done.

 

[MrShane]

T

@hawkbill I am not sure if/how this will ever stop. Back in the 90’s I was surprised at all the 3x9 scopes on Utah muzzleloaders. I think the aging DIY hunter is being left in the dust to pickup the scraps. Getting harder and harder to complete with big money/egos/troops of spotters/etc.
Remember years ago complaining about competing with a chute plane once in awhile. Now it’s helicopters, drones, finder fees, etc. Surprised NASA has not got involved selling satellite imagery time.

That you know of…

 

[elkassassin]

I've Said For Many years You Can't Compete With The BULLSSHITT That Goes On!

 

[Togwotee]

If you build it, hunters will buy it. you can't stop it, the price is the only reason 90% of hunters don't have one.

I'm opposed to the use of thermals, but I was opposed to the use of rangefinders and 1500 yard rifles too. and now I own a couple. unfortunately hunters for the most part are opportunistic scum bags , like the nighttime elk bow hunting craze going on now.

It'll end when all the game is gone.

 

[hawkbill]

If you build it, hunters will buy it. you can't stop it, the price is the only reason 90% of hunters don't have one.

I'm opposed to the use of thermals, but I was opposed to the use of rangefinders and 1500 yard rifles too. and now I own a couple. unfortunately hunters for the most part are opportunistic scum bags , like the nighttime elk bow hunting craze going on now.

It'll end when all the game is gone.

Togwotee- fill us in on nighttime archery hunting

 

[Togwotee]

No secret, one guy calls and runs the light the other guy shoots. hunting parties that used to go 2 for 8 are now at least 6 for 8 consistently. easy to get tags and a month to hunt round the clock , and now with thermals to see them coming so guess how that works out. pisses me off, but it's extremely hard for law enforcement to stop.

Like I said, a lot of hunters are opportunistic scum bags. you can outlaw anything you want but if someone has half a brain they can get away with it.

 

[hawkbill]

I’m not what you said, but thanks for explaining this. Geez I’m so late to the party I might just sell my gear . Not only Trophy Hunters destroying the top end of our Herds but now I find out opportunity hunters are doubling down at night also.

 

[DeerAddiction4]

I’m not what you said, but thanks for explaining this. Geez I’m so late to the party I might just sell my gear . Not only Trophy Hunters destroying the top end of our Herds but now I find out opportunity hunters are doubling down at night also.

I’m not sure about togwottee said about nighttime archery. If they’re poaching why not just use a gun?

 

[Mallardsx2]

If they’re poaching why not just use a gun?

Good point! Lol

 

[Togwotee]

Simple. you can hear a gun a lot farther. rifle tags are hard to draw and not in the rut. bow tags are basically over the counter and the entire rut is in bow season, can you think of a better time to hunt? and it's even better at night.

I get what you're saying about just poaching another time. but there are lots of advantages to a legal season kill with a tag . and you can post pictures and brag don't forget that.

I'm sure in some states this isn't as easy to get away with because of tags and season dates. but don't think it's not happening everywhere there's an elk tag in the rut. it just works too good.

 

[DeerAddiction4]

Simple. you can hear a gun a lot farther. rifle tags are hard to draw and not in the rut. bow tags are basically over the counter and the entire rut is in bow season, can you think of a better time to hunt? and it's even better at night.

I get what you're saying about just poaching another time. but there are lots of advantages to a legal season kill with a tag . and you can post pictures and brag don't forget that.

I'm sure in some states this isn't as easy to get away with because of tags and season dates. but don't think it's not happening everywhere there's an elk tag in the rut. it just works too good.

If I were a poacher I’d get a suppressor and hunt during any season. I see your point of wanting to brag and posting pictures. If I were a poacher I’d kill with a suppressor and take pics with a bow to brag. But I see your points. (Also I’m not a poacher)

 

[HntHrdr]

Simple. you can hear a gun a lot farther. rifle tags are hard to draw and not in the rut. bow tags are basically over the counter and the entire rut is in bow season, can you think of a better time to hunt? and it's even better at night.

I get what you're saying about just poaching another time. but there are lots of advantages to a legal season kill with a tag . and you can post pictures and brag don't forget that.

I'm sure in some states this isn't as easy to get away with because of tags and season dates. but don't think it's not happening everywhere there's an elk tag in the rut. it just works too good.

Man I hope this isn’t happening, but my gut tells me it is. Super disgusting