Thermal Binoculars and Scopes

hawkbill

hawkbill

Long Time Member
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3,178
I really no nothing about these, I hear a lot of guys are using them. A friend of mine ran into some guys and they were using them in daylight, there were some Deer standing out in the sage and when he looked through them the Deer showed
Up very white and there were more white Deer images he had not seen. The good ones are quite exspensive. I hear guys are out glassing all night. What’s your thoughts.
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I have a buddy who has the good ones but not the best ones. When it’s real hot they don’t work the best in daylight. If you get in a hill and it’s still dark they’re awesome. For coues in Mexico we used the expensive ones someone else had and they were glassing bucks up until 9. In the velvet you can see the antlers real well. When they’re hardhorned you can tell they’re a buck and that’s about all.
 
From what I hear and what I see, fairchase in Idaho doesn’t mean much, big Deer mean more. I have not run into any hunters that have said I cannot enter this Deer because I used thermal night vision. I know more guys going to buy them. It sure sounds like a lot of guides and outfitters use them.
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Banned just like e bikes in certain areas. But once one learns the ebike fine is only $150.00 IF they get caught, they continue to break the rules. What is the fine for using IR technology?
 
hawkbill said:
From what I hear and what I see, fairchase in Idaho doesn’t mean much, big Deer mean more. I have not run into any hunters that have said I cannot enter this Deer because I used thermal night vision. I know more guys going to buy them. It sure sounds like a lot of guides and outfitters use them.View attachment 162018
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This website is not correct about Utah. Thermal imaging is illegal in Utah.

And outside of the law, I think the use of it is total BS. People should go hunt high fence operations if they need to be guaranteed a kill this much.
 
Up next, banning guns for hunting because it gives the hunter an unfair advantage. That’s not fair chase to use a gun that lets you shoot an animal over 50 yards. Heck, we should go back to using rocks and cliffs to kill animals. Now that’s fair!

Give me a break. We regulate the taking of animals through tag allotments. Let people hunt the way they want to.

Thermal and night vision is just another example of humans doing what we do best, using our brain to solve problems. In this case, locating game at night or in difficult to see situations. It should not be against the law.
 
Yeah thermals are for when you are trying to be unsportting. Thermals with infared lasers/ thermal scopes and night vision are awesome and should be available to free men. Yet they are for fighting. I could see them for killing animals that are predating livestock or culling ect, but traditional fair chase hunting and thermals do not go together full stop
 
Think I read that they are illegal in AZ too. But I can guarantee you these top guides that have multiple trucks driving around all night spotlighting are using them.
 
iowacity said:
Up next, banning guns for hunting because it gives the hunter an unfair advantage. That’s not fair chase to use a gun that lets you shoot an animal over 50 yards. Heck, we should go back to using rocks and cliffs to kill animals. Now that’s fair!

Give me a break. We regulate the taking of animals through tag allotments. Let people hunt the way they want to.

Thermal and night vision is just another example of humans doing what we do best, using our brain to solve problems. In this case, locating game at night or in difficult to see situations. It should not be against the law.
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How wild to so arrogantly defend thermal/nightvision as an aid in taking wildlife. Obviously we are all entitled to our own opinions. Mine happens to be that you should be embarrassed if you use one as you have zero respect for hunting fair game.
 
I have a good set, I have only used them for recovery efforts.

When I hunted England they use them for everything, it was nice to be able to scan a field before walking into it and possibly spooking everything out.
 
Thermal is awesome, but they have zero place in hunting big game. 💯 cheating. Taking away an animal’s major defense, when they turn reclusive and go nocturnal. This should without question be strictly regulated in every state.
Sadly I’m sure many outfitters utilize them. Along with many known big buck killers.
As far as coyotes, I’m all for it. Thermal is pretty amazing.
 
For hunting, thermal scopes should be predator hunting only, no big game. Binos, I could care less, they don't make anyone a better hunter or shot so eat your heart out.
 
iowacity said:
Up next, banning guns for hunting because it gives the hunter an unfair advantage. That’s not fair chase to use a gun that lets you shoot an animal over 50 yards. Heck, we should go back to using rocks and cliffs to kill animals. Now that’s fair!

Give me a break. We regulate the taking of animals through tag allotments. Let people hunt the way they want to.

Thermal and night vision is just another example of humans doing what we do best, using our brain to solve problems. In this case, locating game at night or in difficult to see situations. It should not be against the law.
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I normally try to stay out of these but... you sir have touched a nerve.

Yes, animals are managed by quotas. However, those quotas are set based on historical % of success. As tools progress that make hunters more successful and percentage of success increases, tags have to be reduced. That lowers opportunity and, imo, starts to eliminate the reasons most of us hunt. If you just want to go kill something, there are plenty of 100% guaranteed high fence hunts.
 
MountainSqwabler said:
For hunting, thermal scopes should be predator hunting only, no big game. Binos, I could care less, they don't make anyone a better hunter or shot so eat your heart out.
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I have to disagree. An outfitter we were with a few years ago on a hunt in Utah had these. In the early morning hours before sun up they helped locate animals. But where they really shined, was after the sun was us but it was still cold out. It sure made finding deer in a thick oak brush canyon, much easier!
 
I like all you guys that say there is no place in Fair chase . I call BS from what I hear dam near everyone crazy for a big Buck has a pair or used them. Boy they really must be something to watch a big Buck over an apple pile. Homer you are correct, I am late to the party, I had no Idea there were so many outfitters guides and hot shots using them. I’m glad I spent many a night out with my dogs or sleeping on an animal without that trash
 
Blackie6 said:
I have to disagree. An outfitter we were with a few years ago on a hunt in Utah had these. In the early morning hours before sun up they helped locate animals. But where they really shined, was after the sun was us but it was still cold out. It sure made finding deer in a thick oak brush canyon, much easier!
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Ok. And? You found the animals. Now take your non thermal scope and make the ethical shot
 
I’ve got to agree with most of you guys. If you can’t find them with binos then you’re not a good hunter. If your fine with being an inferior hunter than go right ahead…..I guess….losers 😁
 
MountainSqwabler said:
Ok. And? You found the animals. Now take your non thermal scope and make the ethical shot
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That’s not the point. Finding the animals in a thick canyon is half the battle. When it’s 10am and 30D outside, you can use thermal to locate bedded animals that you wouldn’t see other wise. Allowing you to then make a play with your “non thermal scope”.
 
Blackie6 said:
I have to disagree. An outfitter we were with a few years ago on a hunt in Utah had these. In the early morning hours before sun up they helped locate animals. But where they really shined, was after the sun was us but it was still cold out. It sure made finding deer in a thick oak brush canyon, much easier!
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Uh....no shiit.....the point about fairchase???
 
The problem with all the fair chase arguments is who gets to decide what is fair chase? We have a lot of agreements in this thread regarding thermal, but not everyone.

Hunting is a very personal thing. We all take enjoyment in hunting, but many of us in different ways. Some people just want to kill an animal to put meet in the freezer (that’s me on many hunts). Some people want the biggest animal on the mountain or they are happy going home empty handed. Some people love the process of hunting and killing does not have to happen for them to enjoy themselves (this is also me sometimes). Some people are very disappointed if they don’t fill their tag, to the point that it isn’t fun.

Some people like archery, others rifle, etc. When we start putting restrictions on ourselves based on what we perceive as an ethical means of take, we are just reducing individual freedom. I get restrictions to manage herd size and health so that we can continue to hunt. I get special seasons for folks who want to use primitive technology. I don’t get telling people how to enjoy THEIR hunt.

I see the thermal argument as no different than people complaining about long range shooting, or using too small of a cartridge. I mean, what about rangefinders? Talk about a major boost to success rates for all weapon types, but we are all accustomed to it now so it’s seen as “normal”. In the 90s, some people complained about them being unsportsmanlike as well. It’s none of your business as you can choose not to hunt with those tools unless we are talking specifically restricted primitive weapons seasons designed to limit success.

We should be fighting to keep as much of our hunting privileges as possible, including the tools we use.
 
I don’t know what the latest generation the Navy uses, but they are straight up daylight.

Without a strobe, it’s just a matter of time before someone get plunked.
 
iowacity said:
The problem with all the fair chase arguments is who gets to decide what is fair chase? We have a lot of agreements in this thread regarding thermal, but not everyone.

Hunting is a very personal thing. We all take enjoyment in hunting, but many of us in different ways. Some people just want to kill an animal to put meet in the freezer (that’s me on many hunts). Some people want the biggest animal on the mountain or they are happy going home empty handed. Some people love the process of hunting and killing does not have to happen for them to enjoy themselves (this is also me sometimes). Some people are very disappointed if they don’t fill their tag, to the point that it isn’t fun.

Some people like archery, others rifle, etc. When we start putting restrictions on ourselves based on what we perceive as an ethical means of take, we are just reducing individual freedom. I get restrictions to manage herd size and health so that we can continue to hunt. I get special seasons for folks who want to use primitive technology. I don’t get telling people how to enjoy THEIR hunt.

I see the thermal argument as no different than people complaining about long range shooting, or using too small of a cartridge. I mean, what about rangefinders? Talk about a major boost to success rates for all weapon types, but we are all accustomed to it now so it’s seen as “normal”. In the 90s, some people complained about them being unsportsmanlike as well. It’s none of your business as you can choose not to hunt with those tools unless we are talking specifically restricted primitive weapons seasons designed to limit success.

We should be fighting to keep as much of our hunting privileges as possible, including the tools we use.
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Illegal in Nevada as well.

https://casetext.com/regulation/nev...ot possess,(b) Electronically enhanced light-
 
iowacity said:
The problem with all the fair chase arguments is who gets to decide what is fair chase? We have a lot of agreements in this thread regarding thermal, but not everyone.

Hunting is a very personal thing. We all take enjoyment in hunting, but many of us in different ways. Some people just want to kill an animal to put meet in the freezer (that’s me on many hunts). Some people want the biggest animal on the mountain or they are happy going home empty handed. Some people love the process of hunting and killing does not have to happen for them to enjoy themselves (this is also me sometimes). Some people are very disappointed if they don’t fill their tag, to the point that it isn’t fun.

Some people like archery, others rifle, etc. When we start putting restrictions on ourselves based on what we perceive as an ethical means of take, we are just reducing individual freedom. I get restrictions to manage herd size and health so that we can continue to hunt. I get special seasons for folks who want to use primitive technology. I don’t get telling people how to enjoy THEIR hunt.

I see the thermal argument as no different than people complaining about long range shooting, or using too small of a cartridge. I mean, what about rangefinders? Talk about a major boost to success rates for all weapon types, but we are all accustomed to it now so it’s seen as “normal”. In the 90s, some people complained about them being unsportsmanlike as well. It’s none of your business as you can choose not to hunt with those tools unless we are talking specifically restricted primitive weapons seasons designed to limit success.

We should be fighting to keep as much of our hunting privileges as possible, including the tools we use.
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Well said.

Love it or hate it, technology keeps moving the line to improve our ability to take game. We as individuals choose what technology we will use.

Agree or disagree with them, state game agencies keep evaluating the technological improvements to determine if they are appropriate for their state.
 
Anyone who thinks thermal isn’t cheating has not used them or been around them. You can literally spot an elk at 3 miles away on a broken timber face and then see what it is with a spotter. Deer 2 miles Easily! Not just animals in the open but all animals if you can see a 1” strip of fur in the timber it will light up on the screen like a lightbulb.

Thermal is literally like having x ray vision during the night, morning or on a cloudy day.
 
NPHunter said:
Anyone who thinks thermal isn’t cheating has not used them or been around them. You can literally spot an elk at 3 miles away on a broken timber face and then see what it is with a spotter. Deer 2 miles Easily! Not just animals in the open but all animals if you can see a 1” strip of fur in the timber it will light up on the screen like a lightbulb.

Thermal is literally like having x ray vision during the night, morning or on a cloudy day.
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If they are that effective that is ridiculous. Completely cheating. I'm so glad states have outlawed them.
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
If they are that effective that is ridiculous. Completely cheating. I'm so glad states have outlawed them.
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Not in my experience. I had one for several years. They are great in certain scenarios, but they are not any more of a game changer as say scopes with dialing turrets, range finders, or compound bows. In my use, rangefinders and dialing scopes far increased success rate exponentially more than thermal optics ever did.
 
NPHunter said:
Anyone who thinks thermal isn’t cheating has not used them or been around them. You can literally spot an elk at 3 miles away on a broken timber face and then see what it is with a spotter. Deer 2 miles Easily! Not just animals in the open but all animals if you can see a 1” strip of fur in the timber it will light up on the screen like a lightbulb.

Thermal is literally like having x ray vision during the night, morning or on a cloudy day.
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3 miles! Those are some high end 15k plus thermals (probably a lot more than that). Good for the guy that can afford that! High end Thermals that most guys are using are in the 3-7k range. Which puts them out of reach for most of us from a practical standpoint. A good pair of binoculars and a spotting scope are a better use of that money before a thermal. Those types of thermal units have a detection range of around 1000-1500 yards. Mind you that’s detection range. You can see it’s a living animal, but you can’t see what it is. It could be an elk, horse, cow, etc. A spotting scope can actually pick out an elk at 3 miles.

The cheaper thermal monoculars that a lot of guys were running before being outlawed in most western states had detection ranges considerably shorter (like 500 yards) with very poor temperate range sensitivity, meaning you had to be very close to see any amount of detail to know what you were looking at.

I’ve actually used thermal quite a lot, and am familiar with the technology and its limitations. They are not the death ray they are being made out to be in this thread.
 
Iowa- There is a difference in the technology you are comparing. Compound bows, rangefinders, etc, are to aid in a more ethical harvest of an animal you have already fairly outsmarted in order to locate and/or pursue (Fair Chase).

Thermal imagery is an incredibly unfair method for locating animals, removing the "fair chase" from the equation.
 
iowacity said:
3 miles! Those are some high end 15k plus thermals (probably a lot more than that). Good for the guy that can afford that! High end Thermals that most guys are using are in the 3-7k range. Which puts them out of reach for most of us from a practical standpoint. A good pair of binoculars and a spotting scope are a better use of that money before a thermal. Those types of thermal units have a detection range of around 1000-1500 yards. Mind you that’s detection range. You can see it’s a living animal, but you can’t see what it is. It could be an elk, horse, cow, etc. A spotting scope can actually pick out an elk at 3 miles.

The cheaper thermal monoculars that a lot of guys were running before being outlawed in most western states had detection ranges considerably shorter (like 500 yards) with very poor temperate range sensitivity, meaning you had to be very close to see any amount of detail to know what you were looking at.

I’ve actually used thermal quite a lot, and am familiar with the technology and its limitations. They are not the death ray they are being made out to be in this thread.
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Lol, not fair chase at all and 100% cheating. I also know their limitations and ability’s and have used them a lot at work and in the woods.

They are fun to use and make scouting super easy, shed hunting becomes much easier when you can find a bedded buck in the brush you would never pick out with a spotter.

Finding bedded deer and elk across a drainage in the timber bedded in a tree root. You’re 100% right about not being able to tell if it’s a deer, elk or whatever at long range but paired with a decent spotter you can find 50X more stuff than with a spotter alone and find it so much quicker and easier.

You can literally pick apart an entire basin in open country in 30 seconds and see 100% of the animals in it or lack of animals. Walk a ridge line, scan up into a drainage, no Christmas lights, move to the next, you can cover dozens and drainages this way very quickly and efficiently. If you find animals you still need a spotter to see exactly what they are but you can eliminate places with no animals almost instantly in the right conditions.
 
DaveD said:
I normally try to stay out of these but... you sir have touched a nerve.

Yes, animals are managed by quotas. However, those quotas are set based on historical % of success. As tools progress that make hunters more successful and percentage of success increases, tags have to be reduced. That lowers opportunity and, imo, starts to eliminate the reasons most of us hunt. If you just want to go kill something, there are plenty of 100% guaranteed high fence hunts.
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Killing “something” is not a problem for most of us. Its killing the “biggest” and before someone else does. Camp on it and at first light its in the crosshairs…..assuming some will wait til then.
 

Ya....because this is what every Tom, D!ck and Harry needs hanging around his neck.

Spotting rabbits at 500 yards in the pitch-black darkness...Lord have mercy..I feel like I am more of an animal's rights activist than an actual animal rights activists these days.....I feel sorry for animals. There is no escape.
 
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Seen quite a few rigs set up over looking ag fields in the dark with the window down, during the bow hunt this year. Wonder what they were doing. Pretty easy to see where they are coming from in the evening, and headed to before day light with a thermal. To me it takes the fun out of it. But it sure cuts out a lot of the work.
 
They work great kind of expensive for the quality stuff. Most people think you can only use them at night. But you can also see "things" during the day like in a stand of green timber. If your in a area with a lot of fog. That can also block your vision. You can see a lot further with thermal then with Infrared scopes. Kind a fun to play with. Just can't have it in your possession for half the year in Utah.
 
iowacity said:
Up next, banning guns for hunting because it gives the hunter an unfair advantage. That’s not fair chase to use a gun that lets you shoot an animal over 50 yards. Heck, we should go back to using rocks and cliffs to kill animals. Now that’s fair!

Give me a break. We regulate the taking of animals through tag allotments. Let people hunt the way they want to.

Thermal and night vision is just another example of humans doing what we do best, using our brain to solve problems. In this case, locating game at night or in difficult to see situations. It should not be against the law.
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Tell us you’ve never used a thermal without telling us.

They are absolutely cheating and should come with hefty fines if found in your possession while hunting big game.
 
iowacity said:
3 miles! Those are some high end 15k plus thermals (probably a lot more than that). Good for the guy that can afford that! High end Thermals that most guys are using are in the 3-7k range. Which puts them out of reach for most of us from a practical standpoint. A good pair of binoculars and a spotting scope are a better use of that money before a thermal. Those types of thermal units have a detection range of around 1000-1500 yards. Mind you that’s detection range. You can see it’s a living animal, but you can’t see what it is. It could be an elk, horse, cow, etc. A spotting scope can actually pick out an elk at 3 miles.

The cheaper thermal monoculars that a lot of guys were running before being outlawed in most western states had detection ranges considerably shorter (like 500 yards) with very poor temperate range sensitivity, meaning you had to be very close to see any amount of detail to know what you were looking at.

I’ve actually used thermal quite a lot, and am familiar with the technology and its limitations. They are not the death ray they are being made out to be in this thread.
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They’re a huge deal out west, makes hunting blacktail deer grocery shopping.
 
The Fair Chase argument bugs me because of the inconsistencies with other tactics. Is a thermal or NV device used by an individual more "unfair" than paying someone to search for a buck or bull that meets a certain criteria, call when they find it, and keep tabs on it till the hunter arrives? I don't think so, but this is legal and, by many, still considered fair chase.

My stance would be to allow them as long as they aren't connected to a weapon. But I wouldn't be mad or up in arms either way. I honestly don't believe that the vast majority of people have them. Hell, I see a fair amount of hunters that don't even have binos with them on the mountain.

Perspectives are easily skewed on a site like this where a bunch of people who are passionate about a subject have discussion and the people they spend time with are also into the same things. A large majority of hunters don't think about hunting daily, it starts opening day and ends when they go home.
 
Simpleton said:
The Fair Chase argument bugs me because of the inconsistencies with other tactics. Is a thermal or NV device used by an individual more "unfair" than paying someone to search for a buck or bull that meets a certain criteria, call when they find it, and keep tabs on it till the hunter arrives? I don't think so, but this is legal and, by many, still considered fair chase.

My stance would be to allow them as long as they aren't connected to a weapon. But I wouldn't be mad or up in arms either way. I honestly don't believe that the vast majority of people have them. Hell, I see a fair amount of hunters that don't even have binos with them on the mountain.

Perspectives are easily skewed on a site like this where a bunch of people who are passionate about a subject have discussion and the people they spend time with are also into the same things. A large majority of hunters don't think about hunting daily, it starts opening day and ends when they go home.
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There’s a lot more of them than there were 5 years ago, as technology increases and they get cheaper we’ll see increases in their popularity.
 
Simpleton said:
The Fair Chase argument bugs me because of the inconsistencies with other tactics. Is a thermal or NV device used by an individual more "unfair" than paying someone to search for a buck or bull that meets a certain criteria, call when they find it, and keep tabs on it till the hunter arrives? I don't think so, but this is legal and, by many, still considered fair chase.

My stance would be to allow them as long as they aren't connected to a weapon. But I wouldn't be mad or up in arms either way. I honestly don't believe that the vast majority of people have them. Hell, I see a fair amount of hunters that don't even have binos with them on the mountain.

Perspectives are easily skewed on a site like this where a bunch of people who are passionate about a subject have discussion and the people they spend time with are also into the same things. A large majority of hunters don't think about hunting daily, it starts opening day and ends when they go home.
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Your a fool, a lot of the serious hunters are using them
 
Guides, outfitters, trophy hunters, the meat hunter and weekend hunter probably not, I am also a fool because a lot of this is new to me and I did not believe it . You’ve heard from guides on this thread how they have hurt the hunting in Utah
american_jackal said:
Seen quite a few rigs set up over looking ag fields in the dark with the window down, during the bow hunt this year. Wonder what they were doing. Pretty easy to see where they are coming from in the evening, and headed to before day light with a thermal. To me it takes the fun out of it. But it sure cuts out a lot of the work.
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Willametteriveroutlaw said:
They’re a huge deal out west, makes hunting blacktail deer grocery shopping.
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NPHunter said:
Lol, not fair chase at all and 100% cheating. I also know their limitations and ability’s and have used them a lot at work and in the woods.

They are fun to use and make scouting super easy, shed hunting becomes much easier when you can find a bedded buck in the brush you would never pick out with a spotter.

Finding bedded deer and elk across a drainage in the timber bedded in a tree root. You’re 100% right about not being able to tell if it’s a deer, elk or whatever at long range but paired with a decent spotter you can find 50X more stuff than with a spotter alone and find it so much quicker and easier.

You can literally pick apart an entire basin in open country in 30 seconds and see 100% of the animals in it or lack of animals. Walk a ridge line, scan up into a drainage, no Christmas lights, move to the next, you can cover dozens and drainages this way very quickly and efficiently. If you find animals you still need a spotter to see exactly what they are but you can eliminate places with no animals almost instantly in the right conditions.
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elkassassin said:
They Have Put A REAL Hurt On The Deer Herd Here In DRATville & Nobody Doing A F'N Thing About It!
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hawkbill said:
Your a fool, a lot of the serious hunters are using them
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No need to jump to name calling.

hawkbill said:
Guides, outfitters, trophy hunters, the meat hunter and weekend hunter probably not, I am also a fool because a lot of this is new to me and I did not believe it . You’ve heard from guides on this thread how they have hurt the hunting in Utah
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I was being sarcastic, asking if a lot of people are using guides? Which, I personally believe, is equally against fair chase as some tech.

Care to define "a lot" and "serious"? If so many are using them and they are so effective as you, and others are stating, harvest rates certainly must reflect this.... no?

Your statement actually coincides with what I said. The vast majority of hunters aren't "serious hunters", so even if you are right and "a lot" of them are using them that is still a very small number of people compared to the number of hunters overall.
 
Simpleton said:
The Fair Chase argument bugs me because of the inconsistencies with other tactics. Is a thermal or NV device used by an individual more "unfair" than paying someone to search for a buck or bull that meets a certain criteria, call when they find it, and keep tabs on it till the hunter arrives? I don't think so, but this is legal and, by many, still considered fair chase.

My stance would be to allow them as long as they aren't connected to a weapon. But I wouldn't be mad or up in arms either way. I honestly don't believe that the vast majority of people have them. Hell, I see a fair amount of hunters that don't even have binos with them on the mountain.

Perspectives are easily skewed on a site like this where a bunch of people who are passionate about a subject have discussion and the people they spend time with are also into the same things. A large majority of hunters don't think about hunting daily, it starts opening day and ends when they go home.
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For what it’s worth I don’t think paying someone to puppy guard an animal is really fair chase either, but to each there own I guess.
 
HntHrdr said:
Well not when it comes to certain things like thermals. I wore them in war. I did so because it gave me An Unfair Advantage! To think that you need thermals to hunt is a joke. Find a new hobby to participate in.
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I've not used them so you have more experience with them than I do. I am just tired of the constant policing of other people's ethics. If there isn't an obvious increase in harvest, I lean to the side of to each their own. Same as the trail cam argument, guides, long range shooting, rangefinders, etc.

More importantly, thank you for your service.
 
Simpleton said:
I've not used them so you have more experience with them than I do. I am just tired of the constant policing of other people's ethics. If there isn't an obvious increase in harvest, I lean to the side of to each their own. Same as the trail cam argument, guides, long range shooting, rangefinders, etc.

More importantly, thank you for your service.
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Thanks man, not looking to try to brag but just saying that I have pretty extensive experience with them. thermals were there to give us an unfair edge which you should always look to in a fight. Now hunting big game, no they don’t serve a purpose, culling or predators I could see the use but it is because you are overtly try to not be sporty and kill as much as possible.

Yeah I agree there are somethings that shouldn’t necessarily have laws about them, but we should police our own so we don’t get outsiders coming in to change laws for us. Someone here said it well too. When we bring so much technology that it is drastically changing success rates then opportunities and tags will be cut to reflect. If it gets to the point where technology is pushing success rates above 50% and we all think that is hunting and it’s great then don’t be surprised when we only pull tags once every 10 years…

Hunting should present some sort of challenge and should require some element of skill and it’s okay if the deer or elk win sometimes, that’s hunting. The expectation of punching every tag is something that needs to be checked at the door.
 
Simpleton said:
I've not used them so you have more experience with them than I do. I am just tired of the constant policing of other people's ethics. If there isn't an obvious increase in harvest, I lean to the side of to each their own. Same as the trail cam argument, guides, long range shooting, rangefinders, etc.

More importantly, thank you for your service.
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Give me a break. It’s thermal vision! It’s not a policing if other peoples ethics it’s eliminating the hunting from hunting. Killing an animal is the final and easiest part and the definition is harvesting. Finding the animal is the act of hunting. You need thermal vision you are not hunting a thing. My God! Have some semblance’s of pride in what you do.
 
Boy @hawkbill opened a can of worms. Never used one, but would like to use one to see what all the hype is about. Just to much money to spend on something to try once. Be interesting to know how many guides/spotters use these whether legal or not in their state.
 
LIK2HNT- it seems like a real black hole that no one wants to talk about especially the ones that have been using them , from what I’m told, I am like you I have never even seen them, they are incredible in daylight or nighttime,. I have not really even heard of them until a couple months ago. It sure seems to me that the game is getting no break with them. These military men on here say there bad , the guides say you can glass a basin in minutes and there bad, horsecorn and Elkass say there bad. They sound like an incredible tool for the Israeli military against Hamas
 
JPickett said:
Give me a break. It’s thermal vision! It’s not a policing if other peoples ethics it’s eliminating the hunting from hunting. Killing an animal is the final and easiest part and the definition is harvesting. Finding the animal is the act of hunting. You need thermal vision you are not hunting a thing. My God! Have some semblance’s of pride in what you do.
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If they make it so easy and they are so broadly used where is the giant leap in success rates?

Having pride in what I do has nothing to do with it. Whether you, or anyone else, uses a thermal, long range rifle setup, cell/transmitting trail cameras, the garmin sight on their bow, scopes on a muzzleloader or anything else that I don't, it has absolutely ZERO effect on what I do. It most definitely does not affect the joy I get from hunting. I just don't really care if someone else chooses to hunt differently than me, and I'm certainly not going to demean their way or try to influence them to change to fit my personal views. It is surprising to me that so many people are concerned with how others choose to hunt instead of their own moral code and enjoying the experience they choose. No different than blasting guys for shooting a two point. If it is legal, and it makes you happy. Tear it up. As I stated earlier... I wouldn't care one way or another if they were deemed legal or illegal everywhere, wouldn't affect me one iota.

For the record, I would estimate around 80% of the tags I've had in the last 20 years have been archery tags. Finding the animal is the easy part. Killing them, yes killing, (we aren't farming and they aren't crops) is another story. But don't jump on here and attack someone personally because they don't happen to agree with your opinion.
 
I wish this technology would be banned from public use or highly regulated. I have a friend with a NV drone and he can see where people and animals are inside a house.

Use for hunting is out of the question.......locating, recovering, scouting NO WAY! Get off your lazy azz and go enjoy the HUNT part of hunting.

Pretty sad when we are discussing a subject that makes spotlighting seem ethical.----SS
 
Simpleton said:
The Fair Chase argument bugs me because of the inconsistencies with other tactics. Is a thermal or NV device used by an individual more "unfair" than paying someone to search for a buck or bull that meets a certain criteria, call when they find it, and keep tabs on it till the hunter arrives? I don't think so, but this is legal and, by many, still considered fair chase.

My stance would be to allow them as long as they aren't connected to a weapon. But I wouldn't be mad or up in arms either way. I honestly don't believe that the vast majority of people have them. Hell, I see a fair amount of hunters that don't even have binos with them on the mountain.

Perspectives are easily skewed on a site like this where a bunch of people who are passionate about a subject have discussion and the people they spend time with are also into the same things. A large majority of hunters don't think about hunting daily, it starts opening day and ends when they go home.
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Appropriate name.....
 
Ok. The more were talking about it the more I actually am putting thought into it. I can see how they would make things a pain in the ass in the long run. True that spotting the animal is half the battle and such. Though I still do feel like for predator hunting l, do whatever because the name of the game for that is killing...the whole agenda of coyote hunting and prairie dog hunting is to thin them out. Bobs and lions and what not, those should be separated aswell because they aren't like yoties imo. But to keep it all simple, just get rid of them for them all. Ik of alot of guys who are successful at night with using a spot light for yoties and such.
 
LIK2HNT said:
Boy @hawkbill opened a can of worms. Never used one, but would like to use one to see what all the hype is about. Just to much money to spend on something to try once. Be interesting to know how many guides/spotters use these whether legal or not in their state.
Click to expand...
Their amazing. And the more you spend the better they are. You can pick up mice at hundreds of yards out. Deer and elk can’t even hide in brush
 
How many animals in the record books were taken with guys being ‘walked in’ for the kill with a friend directing him with a radio or cell phone?
No difference in using thermal.
 
MrShane said:
How many animals in the record books were taken with guys being ‘walked in’ for the kill with a friend directing him with a radio or cell phone?
No difference in using thermal.
Click to expand...
Also a D!ckbag move and a major pet peeve of mine that I would like to see people held accountable for…..

It’s just so hard to believe that mule deer numbers are declining….people will stop at nothing to kill them.
 

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