Tell me your extreme muley management plan

JustMuleys said:
1st - it's a Govt' run program......
2nd -to protect and help the does, in my opinion, no matter what's done, if it's central focus is not in helping does stay healthy and raise those fawns to reproductive age...it will fail.....Around here, in the 70's and 80's there were alfalfa and cornfields everywhere.....There were alot of fawns born in the those alfalfa fields. Lot of food, easy cover, lots of does. 1985 CPR came along and what used to be an alfalfa field is a chico brush/cheatgrass/russian knapweed choked piece of dirt that holds very little value to a deer.

So, If I were the almighty god of game management and could implement any plan I wanted, its one of the things I would do to save mule deer.
Click to expand...
Good I learned something of value today. Really didn't think about how CRP and what comes with it is a detriment to wildlife. Thanks for the education.
 
ICMDEER said:
Where we live sure has an impact on the comments. Most of the country I hunt has fewer people now than it did in the 1930's. The deer don't really migrate; maybe a few miles but no real corridors or McMansions. But there's decadent brush and cheatgrass is a real problem. And predators are a HUGE problem. That said, I agree with much of what has been said. Here's my list in order of priority:

No doe hunts.

Reduce harvest pressure; shorter seasons, and whatever is needed. It'll vary by area and state.

Kill all the predators we possibly can. If you are a true mule deer lover and advocate, you need to reduce the things that harm them. Coyotes, lions, bears and even avian predators if possible. I'm old enough I remember putting out 1080 horseback and riding back through fields of dead rodents. And 1080 did kill eagles, but DDT was also a big problem as to why eagle numbers were down. I used that stuff too. Lordy I'm dating myself.

Forget CWD as a management issue.

Balance the elk population with the mule deer resource. There are too many elk in many areas.

Enhance habitat. Burns don't work in many areas because of cheatgrass encroachment, but do everything we can to enhance food, water, cover and space. There are still some huge opportunities for habitat enhancement.

I'm ready for a new conservation model. Seriously, it appears to me that the "conservation" groups that have the greatest success appeal to the masses with slanted TV commercials and then use the money to sue the feds or state agencies. I think we should copy that model. (See wolves and grizzlies, etc) Buy TV ads that show predators gruesomely killing fawns and adult deer, starving deer, etc. Solicit memberships and donations, then use the $$ to file suit after suit, appeal after appeal, and fight, fight fight. Seems to be the modern model of success.

Require wildlife managers to meaningfully interact with their publics. Most folks in charge of wildlife management have stopped interacting with hunters and landowners and only talk to and listen to other agency folks. That is a terrible model that needs to be fixed. Even if we are asked to provide input, their ears and minds are not truly open. (There are some good ones, but the pendulum has swung away from us for years.)

No landowner licenses. No transferable licenses. No raffle licenses. No special hunts for things like One Shot and others. Those systems have been abused too much.

No trail cameras, no drones, no planes, no baiting. And of course no high fences.

Enhanced and strengthen penalties for those who violate game laws. Confiscate what we can, big fines, loss of hunting privileges and serious time behind bars. (Maybe stockades in the town square, too.)

Enhance public access. This might mean leases, land swaps to "square up" larger parcels of public lands, and more.

That'll do for now, but I am sure there are more. I'm old and can't remember everything at one time..
Click to expand...
O.K. I appreciate the rundown. I've seen a lot of good idea's here and your is very thought out!!
 
Homer said:
Compound 1080 quit mid 70's.........you were seeing the results of NO predators.....
Click to expand...
No doubt killing predators helps the cause.....But there was a ****-ton of coyotes trapped in the 70's and 80's for there being "NO predators". But I digress....

No rut hunts
No doe hunts
Do away with the CRP program
Re-institute 1080
More animal warning/overpasses @ high incident areas
More guzzlers/water projects

Fixed it.
 
A Mini HELL-F'N-RIGHT!

ICMDEER said:
Where we live sure has an impact on the comments. Most of the country I hunt has fewer people now than it did in the 1930's. The deer don't really migrate; maybe a few miles but no real corridors or McMansions. But there's decadent brush and cheatgrass is a real problem. And predators are a HUGE problem. That said, I agree with much of what has been said. Here's my list in order of priority:

No doe hunts.

Reduce harvest pressure; shorter seasons, and whatever is needed. It'll vary by area and state.

Kill all the predators we possibly can. If you are a true mule deer lover and advocate, you need to reduce the things that harm them. Coyotes, lions, bears and even avian predators if possible. I'm old enough I remember putting out 1080 horseback and riding back through fields of dead rodents. And 1080 did kill eagles, but DDT was also a big problem as to why eagle numbers were down. I used that stuff too. Lordy I'm dating myself.

Forget CWD as a management issue.

Balance the elk population with the mule deer resource. There are too many elk in many areas.

Enhance habitat. Burns don't work in many areas because of cheatgrass encroachment, but do everything we can to enhance food, water, cover and space. There are still some huge opportunities for habitat enhancement.

I'm ready for a new conservation model. Seriously, it appears to me that the "conservation" groups that have the greatest success appeal to the masses with slanted TV commercials and then use the money to sue the feds or state agencies. I think we should copy that model. (See wolves and grizzlies, etc) Buy TV ads that show predators gruesomely killing fawns and adult deer, starving deer, etc. Solicit memberships and donations, then use the $$ to file suit after suit, appeal after appeal, and fight, fight fight. Seems to be the modern model of success.

Require wildlife managers to meaningfully interact with their publics. Most folks in charge of wildlife management have stopped interacting with hunters and landowners and only talk to and listen to other agency folks. That is a terrible model that needs to be fixed. Even if we are asked to provide input, their ears and minds are not truly open. (There are some good ones, but the pendulum has swung away from us for years.)

No landowner licenses. No transferable licenses. No raffle licenses. No special hunts for things like One Shot and others. Those systems have been abused too much.

No trail cameras, no drones, no planes, no baiting. And of course no high fences.

Enhanced and strengthen penalties for those who violate game laws. Confiscate what we can, big fines, loss of hunting privileges and serious time behind bars. (Maybe stockades in the town square, too.)

Enhance public access. This might mean leases, land swaps to "square up" larger parcels of public lands, and more.

That'll do for now, but I am sure there are more. I'm old and can't remember everything at one time..
Click to expand...
 
ICMDEER said:
Where we live sure has an impact on the comments. Most of the country I hunt has fewer people now than it did in the 1930's. The deer don't really migrate; maybe a few miles but no real corridors or McMansions. But there's decadent brush and cheatgrass is a real problem. And predators are a HUGE problem. That said, I agree with much of what has been said. Here's my list in order of priority:

No doe hunts.

Reduce harvest pressure; shorter seasons, and whatever is needed. It'll vary by area and state.

Kill all the predators we possibly can. If you are a true mule deer lover and advocate, you need to reduce the things that harm them. Coyotes, lions, bears and even avian predators if possible. I'm old enough I remember putting out 1080 horseback and riding back through fields of dead rodents. And 1080 did kill eagles, but DDT was also a big problem as to why eagle numbers were down. I used that stuff too. Lordy I'm dating myself.

Forget CWD as a management issue.

Balance the elk population with the mule deer resource. There are too many elk in many areas.

Enhance habitat. Burns don't work in many areas because of cheatgrass encroachment, but do everything we can to enhance food, water, cover and space. There are still some huge opportunities for habitat enhancement.

I'm ready for a new conservation model. Seriously, it appears to me that the "conservation" groups that have the greatest success appeal to the masses with slanted TV commercials and then use the money to sue the feds or state agencies. I think we should copy that model. (See wolves and grizzlies, etc) Buy TV ads that show predators gruesomely killing fawns and adult deer, starving deer, etc. Solicit memberships and donations, then use the $$ to file suit after suit, appeal after appeal, and fight, fight fight. Seems to be the modern model of success.

Require wildlife managers to meaningfully interact with their publics. Most folks in charge of wildlife management have stopped interacting with hunters and landowners and only talk to and listen to other agency folks. That is a terrible model that needs to be fixed. Even if we are asked to provide input, their ears and minds are not truly open. (There are some good ones, but the pendulum has swung away from us for years.)

No landowner licenses. No transferable licenses. No raffle licenses. No special hunts for things like One Shot and others. Those systems have been abused too much.

No trail cameras, no drones, no planes, no baiting. And of course no high fences.

Enhanced and strengthen penalties for those who violate game laws. Confiscate what we can, big fines, loss of hunting privileges and serious time behind bars. (Maybe stockades in the town square, too.)

Enhance public access. This might mean leases, land swaps to "square up" larger parcels of public lands, and more.

That'll do for now, but I am sure there are more. I'm old and can't remember everything at one time..
Click to expand...
I love your idea of tv ads showing how a predator stretches out the gruesome death of a fawn or calf just out of the uterus.
 
JustMuleys said:
1st - it's a Govt' run program......
2nd -to protect and help the does, in my opinion, no matter what's done, if it's central focus is not in helping does stay healthy and raise those fawns to reproductive age...it will fail.....Around here, in the 70's and 80's there were alfalfa and cornfields everywhere.....There were alot of fawns born in the those alfalfa fields. Lot of food, easy cover, lots of does. 1985 CPR came along and what used to be an alfalfa field is a chico brush/cheatgrass/russian knapweed choked piece of dirt that holds very little value to a deer.

So, If I were the almighty god of game management and could implement any plan I wanted, its one of the things I would do to save mule deer.
Click to expand...
I understand your point about the productivity of fallow CRP ground, but I would much rather these farmers get at least something so that they don’t have to sell it off for a mcmansion.

The weed cops need to do a better job making sure the weeds are controlled.
 
And We Are Still Waiting For You & Hossy's PROPOSALS!

Other Than MORE TAGS & DOUBLE THE F'N TAGS I Haven't Seen Either One Of Your Game Plans!

You Think You're Just Gonna Sit Back & It's Gonna Fix Its-F'N-SELF?

WRONG!



Vanilla said:
Not really. His has actual game management ideas and not just more regulations on hunters that won’t do anything.
Click to expand...
 
If hunting is the problem the easy solution is to stop hunting. Not some. Everybody. Does that sound familiar?

Habitat, predator control, and grazing. After all it was over grazing in the 40's and 50's that set the stage for the abnormality that was the boom in mule deer.
 
Biggest predator is utards. Hehe

Ban utards well you seen all the cry babies lately in the wyo forum? So just made sense to stir the pot
 
Well hopefully we all had a our say now. As has been pointed out I guess you can't look at every single area the same even though Muledeer are hurting throughout the west. I said your extreme plan because I didn't want anyone to hold back. So here is mine but let me state that I'm not a trophy hunter. I want healthy herds with decent buck to doe and bull to cow ratios but I want opportunity more than trophy bucks/bulls that I have to wait 15 years to get a tag to hunt. Healthy herds with good buck to doe and opportunity "how do you get that? Here are my extreme thoughts:) which are like most of you with one exception that I'll point out last. Also some are forever rules and others could be eased once populations came back. I will capitalize thing I don't feel got much attention, NOT because they are more important but just to differentiate them. These are not listed in a particular order of importance either.

1. Reproduction - No doe hunts.
2. Predator Control - For states that have outlawed hunting cougars with hounds reinstate using hounds. Oregon changed to over the counter tags for cougars years ago and that hasn't done a damn thing, we need hounds back with harvest quotas like we use to have to help control these cats. Bring baiting back for Bears where it has become illegal. Bounty on coyotes funded by a sportsman's tax if necessary. Keep fighting to keep the hunting of wolves legal. WE ARE PREDATORS - CARRY OUT STIFFER PENALITIES THAT ARE ALREADY ALLOWED UNDER THE LAW IN MANY STATES FOR POACHING. IF YOU START TAKING PEOPLE TRUCKS AND RIFLES IT WILL STOP A LOT OF THEM.
3. Drain the swamp of fish and game - Sportsman by far put more $$ toward wildlife and wildlands. They need to remember our forest aren't zoos and need to be managed with large consideration to the groups that fund wildlife and wild places "hunters and fisherman" Get managers with the right priorities.
4. Habitat improvement - protect winter range, control noxious weed and overgrazing. Water projects in area's that need them. Eliminate CRP program. MORE ROAD CLOSERS
5. Traffic mitigation - More over/under passes/wildlife corridors. More blinking wildlife signs with stiff penalties for going to fast in them somewhat like school zones.
6. Age restriction - Not a perfect science as we know but I would go with at least a three points on one side 'not including brow tine" antler restriction.
7. Limit technology - No trail cameras, no drones, no ATV's or ebikes on roads that say closed to motorized vehicles. It varies per forest but some allow these behind closed gates, I would add more logging road closures. Last, this was mentioned by one or two people but I'm more of an advocate for it especially as human populations grow. MANY MORE PRIMITIVE WEAPONS UNITS UNTIL POPULATIONS INCREASE. I don't think we need to go muzzleloader but I would go a lot more units with traditional archery only during archery seasons and rifles can't have optics/scopes on them of any kind. I think you could let a lot more hunters in the field with the same impact on wildlife. I would rather be limited with what I hunt with and be able to go every year than be able to use whatever I want and only get to go every three years or more. I looked up the human population estimates for some muledeer states. Here are the rough increases from 1985 to present. CO 3.2mil to 5.9mil. Idaho 1mil to 2mil. UT 1.65mil to 2.8mil. WY 500K to 700K. MT 830K to 1.25mil. We have to do something?

I
 
callsalot said:
Well hopefully we all had a our say now. As has been pointed out I guess you can't look at every single area the same even though Muledeer are hurting throughout the west. I said your extreme plan because I didn't want anyone to hold back. So here is mine but let me state that I'm not a trophy hunter. I want healthy herds with decent buck to doe and bull to cow ratios but I want opportunity more than trophy bucks/bulls that I have to wait 15 years to get a tag to hunt. Healthy herds with good buck to doe and opportunity "how do you get that? Here are my extreme thoughts:) which are like most of you with one exception that I'll point out last. Also some are forever rules and others could be eased once populations came back. I will capitalize thing I don't feel got much attention, NOT because they are more important but just to differentiate them. These are not listed in a particular order of importance either.

1. Reproduction - No doe hunts.
2. Predator Control - For states that have outlawed hunting cougars with hounds reinstate using hounds. Oregon changed to over the counter tags for cougars years ago and that hasn't done a damn thing, we need hounds back with harvest quotas like we use to have to help control these cats. Bring baiting back for Bears where it has become illegal. Bounty on coyotes funded by a sportsman's tax if necessary. Keep fighting to keep the hunting of wolves legal. WE ARE PREDATORS - CARRY OUT STIFFER PENALITIES THAT ARE ALREADY ALLOWED UNDER THE LAW IN MANY STATES FOR POACHING. IF YOU START TAKING PEOPLE TRUCKS AND RIFLES IT WILL STOP A LOT OF THEM.
3. Drain the swamp of fish and game - Sportsman by far put more $$ toward wildlife and wildlands. They need to remember our forest aren't zoos and need to be managed with large consideration to the groups that fund wildlife and wild places "hunters and fisherman" Get managers with the right priorities.
4. Habitat improvement - protect winter range, control noxious weed and overgrazing. Water projects in area's that need them. Eliminate CRP program. MORE ROAD CLOSERS
5. Traffic mitigation - More over/under passes/wildlife corridors. More blinking wildlife signs with stiff penalties for going to fast in them somewhat like school zones.
6. Age restriction - Not a perfect science as we know but I would go with at least a three points on one side 'not including brow tine" antler restriction.
7. Limit technology - No trail cameras, no drones, no ATV's or ebikes on roads that say closed to motorized vehicles. It varies per forest but some allow these behind closed gates, I would add more logging road closures. Last, this was mentioned by one or two people but I'm more of an advocate for it especially as human populations grow. MANY MORE PRIMITIVE WEAPONS UNITS UNTIL POPULATIONS INCREASE. I don't think we need to go muzzleloader but I would go a lot more units with traditional archery only during archery seasons and rifles can't have optics/scopes on them of any kind. I think you could let a lot more hunters in the field with the same impact on wildlife. I would rather be limited with what I hunt with and be able to go every year than be able to use whatever I want and only get to go every three years or more. I looked up the human population estimates for some muledeer states. Here are the rough increases from 1985 to present. CO 3.2mil to 5.9mil. Idaho 1mil to 2mil. UT 1.65mil to 2.8mil. WY 500K to 700K. MT 830K to 1.25mil. We have to do something?

I
Click to expand...
Add this to #7:
‘Illegal to post pics of any game or fish on any platform of social media’.

It will suck for awhile, but it will really help our animals get a break from hot spotting.
 
It Hasn't Hurt Me Yet!

But They Claim I Don't Hunt So................................!

MrShane said:
Add this to #7:
‘Illegal to post pics of any game or fish on any platform of social media’.

It will suck for awhile, but it will really help our animals get a break from hot spotting.
Click to expand...
 
I would figure out where large numbers of deer typically concentrate in deep snow/harsh winters and then create some large agricultural fields of nutritious feed that will be high enough above the snow for them to feed on, add in some wind/snow breaks for them to get out of the weather. How are we going to keep the elk out of there? I guess shoot some of them?
 
callsalot said:
Mule deer are in such bad shape across the west something extreme needs to be done IMO to bring them back to better times. If you were the almighty god of game management and could implement any plan you wanted, what would you do to save mule deer? I've posted my thoughts before and yes they are extreme and didn't go over to well. I'm interest in your extreme thoughts to save mule deer?
Click to expand...
My plan is simple wildlife crossings this one thing can put more deer in the fields than most plans. It simply saves the deer we already have and we can implement this everywhere we are losing big numbers on a highway.
I posted several months ago on the highway going up Springfield canyon. I saw seven deer dead on the way over to GJ and then six more on the way back two days later. Take 7x365=2555 a year on just that one area. I know there are several highways in Utah that have the same issue
This solution can make a huge difference on deer populations in many areas
 
DeerHunter53 said:
My plan is simple wildlife crossings this one thing can put more deer in the fields than most plans. It simply saves the deer we already have and we can implement this everywhere we are losing big numbers on a highway.
I posted several months ago on the highway going up Springfield canyon. I saw seven deer dead on the way over to GJ and then six more on the way back two days later. Take 7x365=2555 a year on just that one area. I know there are several highways in Utah that have the same issue
This solution can make a huge difference on deer populations in many areas
Click to expand...
Vehicles collision are a major part of the problem for sure. Totally agree.
 

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