SO NILLER??? NOW YOU'RE THE KING???

elkassassin

elkassassin

Long Time Member
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39,236
It's Your Turn Niller!

You're The KING Now!

Our Deer Herd Here In DRATville Has Been Suffering For Many Decades & Just Keeps Going Further DownHill!

Here We Are!

The Winter Of 22-23!

More RoadKills!

More Deer Starving!

More Deer Dieing!

Green Feed Not Showing up as Soon As The Animals Need It!

5 Months of Cooler Weather Than Normal,even Though We Haven't had the -30 to -40 Temps We Sometimes Get, It's Put A Perty Good Hurt on The Game Herds!

The Fawn Mortality From What I Can See Here In My Neck of The Woods Took A HELL Of a Hit!

You Are Now BOSS HAWG Niller!

What'Ya Gonna Do Now?

You Gonna SHRED Your Deer Tag Up In Front of Hossy Before Any Seasons Start?

There Is No Doubt NILLER,The Herd Needs HELP!

I'll Be Waiting Patiently For Your PROFESSIONAL Reply & The Changes You'd Make To Help Our Suffering Herds!
 
I Burnt about 75.00 Worth Of Fuel Today Niller!

Up Indian Canyon Then West On Highway 6 Then cut South on the Indianola Road For about 20 Miles!

Lots Of RoadKill on Highway 6!

Lots of RoadKill Headed South on the Indianola Road!

Both Elk & Deer!

Anywhere From Fresh Vaporized Venison To Older Rotten RoadKills!

Quite a Few Elk RoadKills As Well!

Part Of The Highway 6 Has Been Fenced But There Was RoadKills Through That Section as Well!

Several Roadkills In The Bottom on 191 where it Intersects 6!

Have You Traveled These Roads Lately Niller?
 
elkassassin said:
I Burnt about 75.00 Worth Of Fuel Today Niller!

Up Indian Canyon Then West On Highway 6 Then cut South on the Indianola Road For about 20 Miles!

Lots Of RoadKill on Highway 6!

Lots of RoadKill Headed South on the Indianola Road!

Both Elk & Deer!

Anywhere From Fresh Vaporized Venison To Older Rotten RoadKills!

Quite a Few Elk RoadKills As Well!

Part Of The Highway 6 Has Been Fenced But There Was RoadKills Through That Section as Well!

Several Roadkills In The Bottom on 191 where it Intersects 6!

Have You Traveled These Roads Lately Niller?
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I have, and besides the 9 elk on the side of the road in birdseye, everything looked about par for the course. 6 always has an enormous amount of roadkill during the winter.

Herds need help. They always do. I’m just trying to figure out how saving a general buck helps improve herd numbers. I still haven’t seen a buck give birth to a fawn… ?
 
I Never Mentioned Any Kind Of Management In My 2 Posts Above!

I'm Giving The KING Niller The Reigns On His Professional Help He's Gonna Give Us On The Situation!

And Don't Think For A Minute He Hasn't Seen This Thread!







Bux n Dux said:
I have, and besides the 9 elk on the side of the road in birdseye, everything looked about par for the course. 6 always has an enormous amount of roadkill during the winter.

Herds need help. They always do. I’m just trying to figure out how saving a general buck helps improve herd numbers. I still haven’t seen a buck give birth to a fawn… ?
Click to expand...
 
Not At All Tikka!

I Already Know Where The Deer Are Suffering The Worst!

There Was Some Deer In The Indianola Area,I Seen Some Of Them Dead Along The Road,I'm Not Sure What's Left Though?



Tikka said:
Indianola? You really wanted to hit rock bottom on a visual of deer numbers…
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
You Gonna SHRED Your Deer Tag Up In Front of Hossy Before Any Seasons Start?
Click to expand...

Nope, but I’ve also never called for tag cuts. You really are reaching here bessy!

Make me king and this is what will happen:

1-I’d hire smart, capable folks that know how to actually use science and data to make informed decisions on wildlife management. Then I’d get the heck out of their way and let them do their job.

2-We’d manage based upon what the science and data tells us, not what some whiney butthead(s) on the internet demand.

3-We’d ignore MM wanna be biologists and give as many buck deer tags out as science and data suggests is responsible…because my smart and capable employees would wisely tell me that hunting bucks isn’t the limiting factor for mule deer herds. And even after this brutal winter, hunting bucks won’t prevent the herds from rebounding.

4-Anyone that posts about managing for inches over herd health will be banned from hunting any species in Utah for 10 years. A second offense will be the death penalty.


HELL-RIGHT 2!!!!!!
 
To save the Deer we need to do what we should have done for Pheasants, they are both on the same path, it just happened to the Pheasants first because we took out the farms first.
Now we are taking out the wintering grounds.
Both Pheasants and Deer need contiguous types of sanctuary ( tall grasses next to heavy bramble next to wood lots, etc) very close to abundant year-round food and water.
They need all the help they can get to keep predators out of their sanctuary. This need goes up sharply as habitat declines.
You can see an immediate decline in Pheasants as we fractured their habitat.
As with Pheasants, both species can rapidly recover as long as a few males are around.
Protecting the hens/Does is of utmost importance along with increased predator control.
The State went the right direction with the Cougar decision, but they should have also added Bears to the list.
 
bucks said:
This is why I put my post in the DUMBFOUNDED thread,
Why are the MDF & SFW not helping with emergency feeding of these starving deer and elk, with all this money they are getting in the state of UTAH!!!!!
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They are. SFW was the group that often gets things started with the DWR the past 25 years.
 
I believe that SFW has been feeding the deer in Laketown for quite some time (someone can correct me if I am wrong). This is coming from someone that I work with, who has been helping with this. I believe that they said they are feeding in Garden City as well.

It's bad on my end as I have not helped or been involved but certainly support the feeding program.

Greg can correct me if I am wrong but SFW has done a lot of feeding at this end of the state and regardless of whether I agree or disagree with this organization, I appreciate the efforts from them.
 
bucks said:
This is why I put my post in the DUMBFOUNDED thread,
Why are the MDF & SFW not helping with emergency feeding of these starving deer and elk, with all this money they are getting in the state of UTAH!!!!!
Click to expand...
CCF44E15-7E03-4116-9326-987E744F93EE.jpeg

They are certainly patting their own backs on social media about saving one deer herd… you’d think with all the money they just raised a couple months ago, they could try to save more than that.
 
elkassassin said:
I Burnt about 75.00 Worth Of Fuel Today Niller!

Up Indian Canyon Then West On Highway 6 Then cut South on the Indianola Road For about 20 Miles!

Lots Of RoadKill on Highway 6!

Lots of RoadKill Headed South on the Indianola Road!

Both Elk & Deer!

Anywhere From Fresh Vaporized Venison To Older Rotten RoadKills!

Quite a Few Elk RoadKills As Well!

Part Of The Highway 6 Has Been Fenced But There Was RoadKills Through That Section as Well!

Several Roadkills In The Bottom on 191 where it Intersects 6!

Have You Traveled These Roads Lately Niller?
Click to expand...
You forgot to mention the moose just before the RR bridge
 
Imagine if the $100,000,000 or so Utah gave to hunting special interests over the last twenty years had gone to buying conservation easements on winter range.

But don't worry, just a month ago, we gave $500,000 Utah taxpayer dollars to one of those special interest groups to "educate" Midwest hunters on the dangers of wolves.
 
Hey Niller!

I Like It!

But!

You Ain't Even Close To Having HELL-F'N-RIGHT 2 Complete!

Please Finish With The Other 46+ Changes That Go With HELL-RIGHT 2!:D



Vanilla said:
Nope, but I’ve also never called for tag cuts. You really are reaching here bessy!

Make me king and this is what will happen:

1-I’d hire smart, capable folks that know how to actually use science and data to make informed decisions on wildlife management. Then I’d get the heck out of their way and let them do their job.

2-We’d manage based upon what the science and data tells us, not what some whiney butthead(s) on the internet demand.

3-We’d ignore MM wanna be biologists and give as many buck deer tags out as science and data suggests is responsible…because my smart and capable employees would wisely tell me that hunting bucks isn’t the limiting factor for mule deer herds. And even after this brutal winter, hunting bucks won’t prevent the herds from rebounding.

4-Anyone that posts about managing for inches over herd health will be banned from hunting any species in Utah for 10 years. A second offense will be the death penalty.


HELL-RIGHT 2!!!!!!
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I'm seconding Niller.

If you talk about inches, or score in discussing herds, you are banned, PLUS, we get to hold you down, and have a buck breed you(assuming you identify male), continuously until you are pregnant so you can be the proof of how a makes gives birth, this being herd builders
 
Only people feeding deer/elk in the Wanship to Echo area are a couple of landowners, outfitters and myself. Absolutely no DWR efforts in my area. I have approximately one fawn to every two doe's on my property. So yes feeding helps if you are using the right feed.
Places where they are not getting fed fawn survival is less than one fawn to twenty five doe's.
Elk are in a little better situation but not by much.
Just sayin...
 
If you're only seeing a handful of roadkill on HWY89 today, that's a 100% improvement over 4 months ago.
It's a blessing they have been pushed to lower country and off that highway.
 
I Do Know One Thing!

If An Elk Or Deer Gets On Highway 6/Tries To Cross The Chance Of Survival Is Gonna Be Low!

The Weekend Warriors Headed For Moab Left At Least A Week Early With Their Jeeps & Side X Sides & Priority One Is Getting There Quick!
 
Never Said I Was Always right!

If You Can't See The Change In The Deer Herd You Are Mighty Blind!

If PUNK Tells Me The RoadKill Was Way Worse Earlier in That area I'll Damn Sure Believe Him!





Bux n Dux said:
Have you ever taken a step back and noticed that you are the only one who’s ever right and everyone else is wrong? No matter the topic?
Click to expand...
 
So Niller?

I Thought You Were Concerned About More Fencing/Overpasses/Underpasses?

Not Even Mentioned In Your HELL-RIGHT 2?
 
And Niller?

Have You Looked Around The State?

I'm All For More Fencing/Overpasses/Underpasses!

But We Surely Can't Do As Many Of Them As Quick As We Need To Do Them!

Even PEAYDAY Doesn't Have That Much Money!

But Get The Petitions Rolling Niller!

Let's At Least Get Some Started & Built!
 
You don’t get it. HELL-RIGHT 2 is all about putting the smart people in charge and letting them do their thing and putting the dumb people out with the trash.

The smart people doing their jobs will put all necessary things in place. I won’t have to tell them anything other than I’ll take care of the dumb people for them.
 
So On The Short Bus In Your Eyes 4 Issues & It Fixes EVERY-F'N-THING?

Ya!

That'll Fix It!

When You Get That SMART Crew In There Please Do Tell Us!

Vanilla said:
You don’t get it. HELL-RIGHT 2 is all about putting the smart people in charge and letting them do their thing and putting the dumb people out with the trash.

The smart people doing their jobs will put all necessary things in place. I won’t have to tell them anything other than I’ll take care of the dumb people for them.
Click to expand...
 
I think there are plenty of really sharp, capable folks involved. But for those running the show?

Thumper’s mama taught me that if I don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all. I probably should employ that more often!

Bessy, even if you don’t have a clue, I still love ya my friend. Can’t wait for our drive!
 
elkassassin said:
Never Said I Was Always right!

If You Can't See The Change In The Deer Herd You Are Mighty Blind!

If PUNK Tells Me The RoadKill Was Way Worse Earlier in That area I'll Damn Sure Believe Him!
Click to expand...
You don’t have to say it. The tone you take and attempts to talk over anyone else with a view that doesn’t align with yours, says it all.
 
It'll Be A Good Time My Hard Headed Little Friend!:D:D:D

Vanilla said:
I think there are plenty of really sharp, capable folks involved. But for those running the show?

Thumper’s mama taught me that if I don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all. I probably should employ that more often!

Bessy, even if you don’t have a clue, I still love ya my friend. Can’t wait for our drive!
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Never Said I Was Always right!

If You Can't See The Change In The Deer Herd You Are Mighty Blind!

If PUNK Tells Me The RoadKill Was Way Worse Earlier in That area I'll Damn Sure Believe Him!
Click to expand...
I did do a little research on that area and why it hasn't been or cannot be fenced and crossing built.
It's 90% agricultural lands and the crossings funnel the animals directly onto the farm grounds versus the natural non fencing disperses the deer.

Bad deal for the deer because that is a "Death Highway" during late spring, summer, fall and early winter when the deer are heavily populated there.
 
Hey PUNK!

The More I Looked At It yesterday The More I Thought:

How The Hell Could Anybody Fix That Section of Highway To Prevent Some Type Of Vehicle/LandOwner Situations?

Then I Got Looking At The Railroad Tracks!

Add That In To The Equation!



slamdunk said:
I did do a little research on that area and why it hasn't been or cannot be fenced and crossing built.
It's 90% agricultural lands and the crossings funnel the animals directly onto the farm grounds versus the natural non fencing disperses the deer.

Bad deal for the deer because that is a "Death Highway" during late spring, summer, fall and early winter when the deer are heavily populated there.
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Hey PUNK!

The More I Looked At It yesterday The More I Thought:

How The Hell Could Anybody Fix That Section of Highway To Prevent Some Type Of Vehicle/LandOwner Situations?

Then I Got Looking At The Railroad Tracks!

Add That In To The Equation!
Click to expand...
Yep.....you're spot on!

I get asked all the time why the MDF doesn't do highway mortality prevention projects down there on 89 because it's riddled with dead deer year round, but now we understand why.

Seriously though, when we were hunting that late LE hunt in November in Mount Pleasant, I was literally amazed at how many deer were in that area.
Every field was full of deer. Then in December when those bigger storms hit, they migrated out to the lower country down spanish fork canyon on the northern corridor, behind Nebo on the west corridor into the Nephi area and Southern corridor towards Gunnison.
 
slamdunk said:
Yep.....you're spot on!

I get asked all the time why the MDF doesn't do highway mortality prevention projects down there on 89 because it's riddled with dead deer year round, but now we understand why.

Seriously though, when we were hunting that late LE hunt in November in Mount Pleasant, I was literally amazed at how many deer were in that area.
Every field was full of deer. Then in December when those bigger storms hit, they migrated out to the lower country down spanish fork canyon on the northern corridor, behind Nebo on the west corridor into the Nephi area and Southern corridor towards Gunnison.
Click to expand...

I See!

There Was A Few Fresh Deer Splatters/Vaporization's Yesterday/Night Before on 6!

They Were Hit Damn Hard!

With That Kind Of Traffic & The Rate Of Speed I Don't See How Anything Could Survive This Time Of Year With That Much Snow!
 
I've looked on MDF and SFW website to see if there was information on feeding deer and elk. I didn't see anything, if there ever was a time to step up and help now would be it. What's the deal @slamdunk ? It's not just up north either, southern utah getting pounded again. Parowan front in bad shape, Dutton, Boulder, Zion, PV hurting. Where's the millions of dollars? Lets get a couple hundred pallets of feed and some dedicated hunters out spreading it?
 
Bigwiffy said:
I've looked on MDF and SFW website to see if there was information on feeding deer and elk. I didn't see anything, if there ever was a time to step up and help now would be it. What's the deal @slamdunk ? It's not just up north either, southern utah getting pounded again. Parowan front in bad shape, Dutton, Boulder, Zion, PV hurting. Where's the millions of dollars? Lets get a couple hundred pallets of feed and some dedicated hunters out spreading it?
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MDF, RMEF and SFW all pooled $50k each for feedings in various locations.

SFW has been posting on Social media, MDF wasn't interested in a spotlight for reasons I do not agree with nor condone, but that was their choosing to just help fund it.

I'd be all over a program like you described if it were available ?‍♂️.

The question of very little feeding this winter will plague the Division for a very long time and I see it daily on multiple platforms and pages.

I'm not happy about it.....fwiw
 
slamdunk said:
MDF, RMEF and SFW all pooled $50k each for feedings in various locations.

SFW has been posting on Social media, MDF wasn't interested in a spotlight for reasons I do not agree with nor condone, but that was their choosing to just help fund it.

I'd be all over a program like you described if it were available ?‍♂️.

The question of very little feeding this winter will plague the Division for a very long time and I see it daily on multiple platforms and pages.

I'm not happy about it.....fwiw
Click to expand...
50k??? That's pretty pathetic. Both organizations have had an opportunity to shine for what they say they are all about, but I guess they are showing what they are all about.
 
slamdunk said:
MDF, RMEF and SFW all pooled $50k each for feedings in various locations.

SFW has been posting on Social media, MDF wasn't interested in a spotlight for reasons I do not agree with nor condone, but that was their choosing to just help fund it.

I'd be all over a program like you described if it were available ?‍♂️.

The question of very little feeding this winter will plague the Division for a very long time and I see it daily on multiple platforms and pages.

I'm not happy about it.....fwiw
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I’m sorry, but only 50k from SFW is disgusting, especially given the hunt expo was only 2 months ago. They pimped out public tags for insane profit and 50 is all they could find to throw at a very important conservation and preservation effort. They probably spend 50k or more on their pen raised pheasants annually. You would think a muledeer would be more important.
 
Bigwiffy said:
50k??? That's pretty pathetic. Both organizations have had an opportunity to shine for what they say they are all about, but I guess they are showing what they are all about.
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Have you written a check for a single bag of feed?
How about a $35 membership to any of the "Big Three" who have?

What exactly have YOU contributed?
 
slamdunk said:
Have you written a check for a single bag of feed?
How about a $35 membership to any of the "Big Three" who have?

What exactly have YOU contributed?
Click to expand...
Tags and opportunities. From the public draw. That they have made MILLIONS on over the years. I have also purchased hunting licenses and permits for my entire life. And I pay state taxes weekly.

so has every other resident hunter of utah.

I would think between all of that, it would cover the bill to feed a few deer herds for 1 winter. If that doesn’t cover it, a $35 membership surely wouldn’t. However, it would encourage them to continue business as usual. Exploiting a public resource as a multi million dollar business every year.

At least we have those flightless pheasant hunts to look forward to in November.
 
Bux n Dux said:
Tags and opportunities. From the public draw. That they have made MILLIONS on over the years. I have also purchased hunting licenses and permits for my entire life. And I pay state taxes weekly.

so has every other resident hunter of utah.

I would think between all of that, it would cover the bill to feed a few deer herds for 1 winter. If that doesn’t cover it, a $35 membership surely wouldn’t. However, it would encourage them to continue business as usual. Exploiting a public resource as a multi million dollar business every year.

At least we have those flightless pheasant hunts to look forward to in November.
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I agree, I'm just saying I don't understand the position of the DNR on emergency feeding.
 
I read an article out of Wyoming last week and one of their biologists was talking about how feeding really doesn’t work well and they don’t see a lot of return on investment there.

So it’s not just Utah DNR that is hesitant to do this.

I have no opinion on wether that is true or not or the validity of any feeding programs. Just passing along what I read.

I will say, Bux n Dux is not wrong here. Between the 200 expo tags and several hundred conservation tags on top of that EVERY year, how much money has that produced just in the last decade that is supposed to be for “conservation?” Heck, how much just in February and March of this year? I feel like there is plenty of money out there to do these projects if the powers that be in both the DWR and the organizations involved wanted them done.
 
Vanilla said:
I read an article out of Wyoming last week and one of their biologists was talking about how feeding really doesn’t work well and they don’t see a lot of return on investment there.

So it’s not just Utah DNR that is hesitant to do this.

I have no opinion on wether that is true or not or the validity of any feeding programs. Just passing along what I read.

I will say, Bux n Dux is not wrong here. Between the 200 expo tags and several hundred conservation tags on top of that EVERY year, how much money has that produced just in the last decade that is supposed to be for “conservation?” Heck, how much just in February and March of this year? I feel like there is plenty of money out there to do these projects if the powers that be in both the DWR and the organizations involved wanted them done.
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Again, I agree.
It's the DNR that discourages the feeding and therefore their position is followed by some regardless of opinions.

I personally say "feed!!"
 
Bigwiffy said:
Why would I join a group that has fleeced people out of millions and millions of dollars in the name of conservation, and in return has let a few pen raised pheasants lose???
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Just as I thought.....

You have no skin in the game, therefore you have no gripe in where "everyone else's" money is spent.
 
slamdunk said:
Just as I thought.....

You have no skin in the game, therefore you have no gripe in where "everyone else's" money is spent.
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Haha tell MDF thank you for their generous donation. Please also ask them their plans for the millions they've fleeced and/or had granted to them going forward. Maybe they are saving it for a hard winter....?.If they aren't helping more this winter, they've lost any shred of hope I have for them.
 
slamdunk said:
Just as I thought.....

You have no skin in the game, therefore you have no gripe in where "everyone else's" money is spent.
Click to expand...
The public does have skin in the game.
This is the problem with the Groups- they do not include the public as their partner. It is my and your next door neighbor or cousin or friend or self giving up tags every year for the opportunity to hunt. It is a PR mistake to not give credit to the average hunter for their part in contributing to raising the funds which the Groups then use to show what they have done.

And who really has "skin" in the game? A volunteer for a Group gets paid DH hours at $40 per hour. They can help set-up tables in a venue or pick up snacks from Walmart to be used at a banquet or yell out when someone bids on a $20k tag and then they get $40 per hour- and they get to keep track of their own hours.
I've planted bitterbrush, been on counts, served 4 years on the Habitat Council, and served on many other service projects. I don't have any more skin in the game than a family member who has not done the same. Nothing to be entitled about if a person decides to donate to a cause....

As for feeding- it has never really worked on a large scale unless it is started early- well before they need to be fed. And some guys feed early, then heavy snows comes and artificially keep deer from migrating. It is a tough situation. Not black and white right or wrong for sure.
 
Bigwiffy said:
Slam has more skin in the game than the rest of us. It's ok to let him think he's a notch above us peasants that buy licenses, pay taxes, etc. every year. He donated $35 and has a MDF bumper sticker.
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It's all good Wiff, you can choose "No" at the sporting goods store when it asks if you'd like to Round Up For Conservation, we'll survive without your .26 cents?
 
Deer and Elk in my area cannot migrate because of wildlife fences. Damn animals congregate along the river and freeway and don’t have a choice. With the heavy snow we have no choice but to feed them. And yes you are correct on starting the program early. We started in November and still feeding 400+lb a day. Trust me I hope the hell someone can figure out what to do in the future.
Feeding is expensive and very labor intense.
But letting them starve to death isn’t happening on my watch??
 
As for Expo tags....
I don't mind that I can apply for 200 individual tags versus about 5 on the state draw and also know that $3.50 of that × 35000 applicants which equals approximately $122,500 of audited contractual dollars goes directly onto the ground whereas my state draw $10 application fee that pays for new trucks and catered Olive Garden dinners at my committee meetings ?
 
Wapitiwilly said:
Deer and Elk in my area cannot migrate because of wildlife fences. Damn animals congregate along the river and freeway and don’t have a choice. With the heavy snow we have no choice but to feed them. And yes you are correct on starting the program early. We started in November and still feeding 400+lb a day. Trust me I hope the hell someone can figure out what to do in the future.
Feeding is expensive and very labor intense.
But letting them starve to death isn’t happening on my watch??
Click to expand...
Thank you for what you're doing, a lot of others in your situation just have them removed lethally.
 
Packout said:
The public does have skin in the game.
This is the problem with the Groups- they do not include the public as their partner. It is my and your next door neighbor or cousin or friend or self giving up tags every year for the opportunity to hunt. It is a PR mistake to not give credit to the average hunter for their part in contributing to raising the funds which the Groups then use to show what they have done.

And who really has "skin" in the game? A volunteer for a Group gets paid DH hours at $40 per hour. They can help set-up tables in a venue or pick up snacks from Walmart to be used at a banquet or yell out when someone bids on a $20k tag and then they get $40 per hour- and they get to keep track of their own hours.
I've planted bitterbrush, been on counts, served 4 years on the Habitat Council, and served on many other service projects. I don't have any more skin in the game than a family member who has not done the same. Nothing to be entitled about if a person decides to donate to a cause....

As for feeding- it has never really worked on a large scale unless it is started early- well before they need to be fed. And some guys feed early, then heavy snows comes and artificially keep deer from migrating. It is a tough situation. Not black and white right or wrong for sure.
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You are 100% correct PO.
Everything done by any and all SI groups helps everyone, not just their members.

I don't hunt waterfowl or upland game but I am thankful for all the projects DU and PFE groups do to help sustain those resources.

Unlike Wiffy, I get it, I understand it and I can appreciate every groups efforts in what their causes are.

And thank you for what you've personally done ?
 
slamdunk said:
You are 100% correct PO.
Everything done by any and all SI groups helps everyone, not just their members.

I don't hunt waterfowl or upland game but I am thankful for all the projects DU and PFE groups do to help sustain those resources.

Unlike Wiffy, I get it, I understand it and I can appreciate every groups efforts in what their causes are.

And thank you for what you've personally done ?
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If SFW and MDF went away I highly doubt the herds would miss all the good they've done. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid and pounding your chest though Slammy. I will give you credit you have helped shine more light on what a sham MDF is. SFW was a no brainer for most, but MDF has been exposed to the same BS. Of the 50k that was donated how much came from MDF? Why not make it public? They embarrassed?
 
Bigwiffy said:
If SFW and MDF went away I highly doubt the herds would miss all the good they've done. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid and pounding your chest though Slammy. I will give you credit you have helped shine more light on what a sham MDF is. SFW was a no brainer for most, but MDF has been exposed to the same BS. Of the 50k that was donated how much came from MDF? Why not make it public? They embarrassed?
Click to expand...
In his original post it states they all pitched in 50k each….
 
slamdunk said:
Tiny detail....they are still public resources ?
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The problem with your position and comment to Bigwiffy that I was getting at was more diplomatically identified by Packout. But lately, I've enjoyed the philosophy of when they go low, go lower.

We have special interest groups raising huge amounts of funds from selling public resources (and retain a substantial amount for "administration purposes"), with questionable efficacy in tangible benefits to the resource being returned to the public. Then, when somebody calls that out or questions how those funds are being used, somebody comes along to the special interest groups' defense and uses the logic of, "put up or shut up, you aren't paying to support it so you have no say" not only does that completely ignore the fact that the public, ALL of the public, have paid already and are the owners of the resource that has been taken from public opportunity in the sake of raising $$$$ and sold to the few.

So you coming along belittling even a monstrosity such as Bigwiffy for not personally paying up more is kinda like telling a victim of robbery that they should stop crying foul unless they also pay the thugs robbing them for protection money. Just absurd
 
johnnycake said:
The problem with your position and comment to Bigwiffy that I was getting at was more diplomatically identified by Packout. But lately, I've enjoyed the philosophy of when they go low, go lower.

We have special interest groups raising huge amounts of funds from selling public resources (and retain a substantial amount for "administration purposes"), with questionable efficacy in tangible benefits to the resource being returned to the public. Then, when somebody calls that out or questions how those funds are being used, somebody comes along to the special interest groups' defense and uses the logic of, "put up or shut up, you aren't paying to support it so you have no say" not only does that completely ignore the fact that the public, ALL of the public, have paid already and are the owners of the resource that has been taken from public opportunity in the sake of raising $$$$ and sold to the few.

So you coming along belittling even a monstrosity such as Bigwiffy for not personally paying up more is kinda like telling a victim of robbery that they should stop crying foul unless they also pay the thugs robbing them for protection money. Just absurd
Click to expand...
Thank you for the compliment.
 
johnnycake said:
The problem with your position and comment to Bigwiffy that I was getting at was more diplomatically identified by Packout. But lately, I've enjoyed the philosophy of when they go low, go lower.

We have special interest groups raising huge amounts of funds from selling public resources (and retain a substantial amount for "administration purposes"), with questionable efficacy in tangible benefits to the resource being returned to the public. Then, when somebody calls that out or questions how those funds are being used, somebody comes along to the special interest groups' defense and uses the logic of, "put up or shut up, you aren't paying to support it so you have no say" not only does that completely ignore the fact that the public, ALL of the public, have paid already and are the owners of the resource that has been taken from public opportunity in the sake of raising $$$$ and sold to the few.

So you coming along belittling even a monstrosity such as Bigwiffy for not personally paying up more is kinda like telling a victim of robbery that they should stop crying foul unless they also pay the thugs robbing them for protection money. Just absurd
Click to expand...
I'll accept that.
It just gets old listening to him ask or say what they (MDF) don't do, yet he gives absolutely zero support, physically, monetarily or vocally and cries the loudest.
My stance back is "what do YOU do for wildlife if the SI groups aren't performing to your acceptance?"

You are correct, I will ignore versus bantering.
 
Tikka said:
In his original post it states they all pitched in 50k each….
Click to expand...
Yes, i did say each entity donated $50k, he doesn't like paying attention because it's more amusing to twist the narrative.
I'll do some math for him.....it's $150k, and it was made public, MDF just didn't throw a spotlight on a "feel good" feeding.
 
Currently there is a very large pool of federal dollars ($65 million) available focused on forest/rangeland health, focused on wildfire mitigation to prevent future wildfires like the west has been experiencing over the last handful of years.
These dollars have the potential to enhance a lot of habitat, but very little is focused on winter range protection.
Increasingly detrimental to wildlife in the west, is the urban/wild land interface, and attempts to more widely discuss the need for protection of winter range needs to be a focus of all wildlife conservation organizations.
Unfortunately, that would also require a more broad discussion about potentially restricting urban sprawl, and working with private land holders to protect winter habitat that is utile for winter cattle feeding.
Very few (if any) organizations are willing to push for these types of measures, principally due to a desire to avoid difficult conversations with politicians and the general public.

Habitat is the where all investment should be going. Feeding makes people feel good, but on the actual full scale it accomplishes little to nothing. It’s also a very real issue as a disease vector as they are already weak and more vulnerable.

Do I personally think MDF should have done more than "partner" with equal revenue to assist in critical feeding this year?
Yes, I would "feel good" about it for two reasons.
#1 I know beyond a shadow of doubt our deer need help this winter in critical areas.
#2 I believe public support is critical to our memberships which are the backbone of our group.

I'm out of words on the subject, it's in Nature's hands.
 
A KUESTION FOR THE KING?

Does The South Slope Really Need 75 More Doe Tags Added to The Already Suffering Herd?

Everybody SCREAMING & WHINING:

Bucks Don't Have Fawns!

That Must Mean That Does Have Fawns,Right?

But We're Adding Doe Tags!

SPLAIN it KING NILLER!
 
elkassassin said:
A KUESTION FOR THE KING?

Does The South Slope Really Need 75 More Doe Tags Added to The Already Suffering Herd?

Everybody SCREAMING & WHINING:

Bucks Don't Have Fawns!

That Must Mean That Does Have Fawns,Right?

But We're Adding Doe Tags!

SPLAIN it KING NILLER!
Click to expand...
That one has me shaking my head as well, especially after a hard winter out there.
 
Yep, of course slam, just recommendations and recommendations they said they would alter if needed by the time the Board meets if they get changing data the next month. (As stated in the buck deer permit video.)

My question was rhetorical. I already knew he didn’t watch it. His questions about South Slope were specifically answered in the antlerless video, so he wouldn’t need to ask me if he’d just listen to the DWR’s reasoning.
 
Everything is a "proposal" at this point.
Wait till the electronics proposals hit this forum.

I was up till almost midnight last night answering questions from people either not reading, comprehending or just not understanding the verbage, 3 of which were Outfitters.
 
Oh I've seen them! I didn't love the electronic communications portion. I'd prefer you all focus on emerging and new technology, not things people have been using for the last 50 years. (or more?)

I could see the WB just taking muzzy scopes away anyway...even though it isn't a recommendation.
 
elkassassin said:
A KUESTION FOR THE KING?

Does The South Slope Really Need 75 More Doe Tags Added to The Already Suffering Herd?

Everybody SCREAMING & WHINING:

Bucks Don't Have Fawns!

That Must Mean That Does Have Fawns,Right?

But We're Adding Doe Tags!

SPLAIN it KING NILLER!
Click to expand...

Elkster-

I am not a fan of doe hunts, particularly when our herds are struggling. However, the DWR explained their reasoning for the limited number of doe tags being offered. If you want to understand, watch this video from 5:00 to 7:00 and Dax Mangus will explain their rationale:


In case you choose not to watch the video, which is likely ;) , the 75 additional doe tags on the South Slope are meant to target deer in the Ashley Valley area that are living in town and pose a public safety issue.

Hawkeye
 
Vanilla said:
Oh I've seen them! I didn't love the electronic communications portion. I'd prefer you all focus on emerging and new technology, not things people have been using for the last 50 years. (or more?)

I could see the WB just taking muzzy scopes away anyway...even though it isn't a recommendation.
Click to expand...
The muzzy scope is still on the table
 
If the WB does not address the muzzy scope issue then perhaps the legislature will next session.

Hawkeye
 
Hawkeye said:
If the WB does not address the muzzy scope issue then perhaps the legislature will next session.

Hawkeye
Click to expand...

This is something I’ve told people for a year now. Just like the trail cam issue. And I think there are also people on the Board that are willing to chuck this committee aside and act with or without their recommendations at this point as well. See Mr Heaton’s statements on technology the last time the board discussed it, as an example.

Just so Bessy doesn’t cry at me twice, I’m not asking for muzzy scopes to be restricted. Just saying I predict they will within the next 2 years regardless of how I feel.
 

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