Significant restrictions are being proposed in 2024 Novembers RAC's

[slamdunk]

I’m on board with increasing are age class.

There are only two options for that without cutting tags even further, hence the entire ongoing arguments in this thread.

 

[elkassassin]

I Still Say Giving The OPPOR-F'N-TUNISTS A Few Units To Destroy Would Be A Good Plan!

When They Enter The OPPORTUNIST'S Program They Are Locked In It For Life!

Give Them 2 or 3 Tags Annually!

Let Em Hunt 6 Months Out Of The Year!

Let Them Kill Anything From FAWNS On Up To Their Trophy Class Of OPPORTUNITY Bucks!

When Them Units Are F'D Up Don't Come A BAWLIN!

Just Keep Your OPPORTUNITY & Keep On Hunting!

 

[quest]

I think it’s a fine line to get there and not all units are created equal. Pine Valley unit well that’s a yes. Just hear me out… the 4 point thing would work if its rotated every other year not on going for 3+. We can give those young bucks a year or two. The whole idea is to increase the age factor not to wipe out all 4 points.

 

[elkassassin]

And Start Enforcing The APR's (If You're Gonna Have Them?)

Make A Few HELL-F'N-RIGHT Examples & I Guaran-Damn-Tee You Alot Of The BS Would Stop!

No,You'll Never Stop It All!

I think it’s a fine line to get there and not all units are created equal. Pine Valley unit well that’s a yes. Just hear me out… the 4 point thing would work if its rotated every other year not on going for 3+. We can give those young bucks a year or two. The whole idea is to increase the age factor not to wipe out all 4 points.

 

[slamdunk]

How Bout We Grow Some More Deer So We Can Offer More F'N Opportunity?

Instead Of:

Let's YANK The Magnified Scopes Off Of SmokePoles,Study It For 5 GAWD-DAMNED Years,And See If That Fixed The DRATville Deer Herd!

Then When They See That Didn't Fix The Deer Herd They Can Say:

Well,We Tried!

Let's Go To STUPID SHHITT Plan # 567 & Try That For 5 Years & See If That Fixes It!

HINT:

It Won't And Not Any Of These Other STUPID SSHITT Plans Is Gonna Fix It Either!

Gonna Take Some Major CHANGE To Try & Turn It Around!

These proposals aren't designed to grow more deer, we all should know that.

Want more deer, heck yes we do.

Figure out a new version of 1080, keep Doe's off the streets and stop the late season depredation killings.

 

[quest]

I don’t like the idea of harvesting does and goes against the grain if you want to grow more deer. There was a video awhile back on whitetail deer and they found out that does contribute more to antler growth than buck deer.

 

[slamdunk]

I don’t like the idea of harvesting does and goes against the grain if you want to grow more deer. There was a video awhile back on whitetail deer and they found out that does contribute more to antler growth than buck deer.

100%

 

[quest]

We could open some units early like September for rifles hunters it would make it a hard hunt do to the weather but I think you could issue more tags because of the lower success rate. What do you think?

 

[slamdunk]

We could open some units early like September for rifles hunters it would make it a hard hunt do to the weather but I think you could issue more tags because of the lower success rate. What do you think?

In my mind that would be worse.

Better weather, more accessible areas, bucks could still be in bachelor groups, easier to find.

But maybe I'm wrong...

 

[quest]

You may have point

In my mind that would be worse.

Better weather, more accessible areas, bucks could still be in bachelor groups, easier to find.

But maybe I'm wrong...

 

[quest]

I don’t like late hunts it’s seems to me we hammer the heck out of our deer. I’m ok with more opportunity for bow hunters the success rate is so low. It’s good for the younger generation.

 

[quest]

What’s going on with the coyotes it seems the more we hammer them the more they have bigger liters. I think I’ve had to much caffeine today anyway carry on

 

[slamdunk]

What’s going on with the coyotes it seems the more we hammer them the more they have bigger liters. I think I’ve had to much caffeine today anyway carry on

They are an absolute infestation for sure.

Even with the best coyote hunters today using all the fancy tech available, the dog numbers are extremely high.

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

If the whole state went to APR everyone could have a tag.
The harvest success would drop tremendously.

The youth could harvest whatever and if it starts getting out of hand and the youth can’t keep it in check, then they can start managing and issuing tags on each unit 4 point or less for adults and keep it in check.

It’s not really that hard.

 

[quest]

I wish we had the nasty stuff in the past that kept coyotes in check but it was to good killing everything that ate it.

 

[quest]

If the whole state went to APR everyone could have a tag.
The harvest success would drop tremendously.

The youth could harvest whatever and if it starts getting out of hand and the youth can’t keep it in check, then they can start managing and issuing tags on each unit 4 point or less for adults and keep it in check.

It’s not really that hard.

It all sounds good but there’s other that just want to hunt a buck they don’t care how big it is they just want to get out there.

 

[notdonhunting]

Since hossblur won't answer i open it up to anyone that wants to answer, and please explain your reasoning.
Do you believe making recurve and long bows the only legal means hunting deer during the Archery?

 

[quest]

Since hossblur won't answer i open it up to anyone that wants to answer, and please explain your reasoning.
Do you believe making recurve and long bows the only legal means hunting deer during the Archery?

Who are you asking?

 

[quest]

I’m sorry I read that wrong your talking to anyone. So I’ll give my two cents MAYBE in some units where the deer herds are really struggling. It’s not in it for me to take away someone preferred method of take. I hope I didn’t step on anyone toes.

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

It all sounds good but there’s other that just want to hunt a buck they don’t care how big it is they just want to get out there.

Right! Do you realize how many tags they would be issuing for 4 point or less after two or 3 years. I think that will accommodate the hunters that don’t really care what they harvest as long as they fill there tag.

The 4 point or more and it has to be 4 point on both sides or more you could issue a ton of tags and still have way low success.

 

[quest]

That why I think they should rotate it every other year on 4 pionts

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

That why I think they should rotate it every other year on 4 pionts

I think that wouldn’t be very productive I’m on board with every 2 years. Then they can adjust it for the health of the herd.

 

[hossblur]

I’m hossblur?

I thought I was Bux and Dux???

Now I’m really confused.

Neither one of us hunt

 

[quest]

My thoughts was to take the stress off 4 points the next year and give others hunter’s that just want to hunt.

 

[Betterluckythangood]

How many points are you guys thinking it would take to draw such a unit, currently? How about five years down the road? How many points then? Or are you talking about statewide?

 

[quest]

I think it will be easy to put in the first year after that I don’t know? It worries me if we concentrate on just 4 points we’re going to just wipe out most of the progress me made. How are they going to keep the buck/doe ratio if they don’t harvest smaller bucks? These are questions that we need to ask maybe slamdunk can answer?

 

[ktg]

The whole idea is to increase the age factor not to wipe out all 4 points.

Think about what a 4 point or better restriction does. It forces everyone with a tag to hunt only 4 points. The result is there will be fewer 4 points left after the season than there would have been under an any buck rule. Admittedly, there will be more 2.5 yr old deer to hunt, but odds are that 99% of them will be killed. A buck over 2.5 yrs old will be rare.
If you change that to "...not wipe out all the 2 points", then you're accurate.

 

[ktg]

They are an absolute infestation for sure.

Even with the best coyote hunters today using all the fancy tech available, the dog numbers are extremely high.

I spent 13 days hunting in Arizona this year. In those 13 days, I averaged seeing a coyote a day. They didn't care that I was there. Had one at 10 yards.
On the other hand, in Utah, I see maybe 1 or 2 coyotes a year and they're usually hundreds of yards away on a dead run. If that's an infestation, Arizona is overrun. I don't know if people just don't hunt them there or what.

 

[elkassassin]

Now This I'd Like To See!

A SURPLUS In The DRATville Deer Herd!

HINT:

You'll Never See The F'N Day!

If the whole state went to APR everyone could have a tag.
The harvest success would drop tremendously.

The youth could harvest whatever and if it starts getting out of hand and the youth can’t keep it in check, then they can start managing and issuing tags on each unit 4 point or less for adults and keep it in check.

It’s not really that hard.

 

[quest]

I spent 13 days hunting in Arizona this year. In those 13 days, I averaged seeing a coyote a day. They didn't care that I was there. Had one at 10 yards.
On the other hand, in Utah, I see maybe 1 or 2 coyotes a year and they're usually hundreds of yards away on a dead run. If that's an infestation, Arizona is overrun. I don't know if people just don't hunt them there or what.

Pine Valley was loaded with them this year as far as seeing them every day probably not. I think they move down with the deer when they migrate to NV. I don’t hunt them but I’m hoping the word gets out and maybe someone can make some money if that still offer that program?

 

[hogg_65]

Change it to Non Typical Bucks Only for the APR.

Buck must have horizontal cheater's on both sides and a spread of 30" wide or more to be legal to kill on Utah general hunts.

All bucks must be checked by utdwr biologist within 48 hrs of harvest.
No pictures of said Bucks are allowed to be posted on social media platforms until checked and verified by utdwr biologist.

That should put more bucks on the landscape.

 

[elkassassin]

LMAO hogg!

I'll Go Along With Your Plan!

Let's See How Many Others Will?

30"+!

Cheaters!

I'm In!

Most Hunters Have Never Seen Bucks Like You're Talkin On General Units!

HELL-F'N-RIGHT!

Change it to Non Typical Bucks Only for the APR.

Buck must have horizontal cheater's on both sides and a spread of 30" wide or more to be legal to kill on Utah general hunts.

All bucks must be checked by utdwr biologist within 48 hrs of harvest.
No pictures of said Bucks are allowed to be posted on social media platforms until checked and verified by utdwr biologist.

That should put more bucks on the landscape.

 

[slamdunk]

I spent 13 days hunting in Arizona this year. In those 13 days, I averaged seeing a coyote a day. They didn't care that I was there. Had one at 10 yards.
On the other hand, in Utah, I see maybe 1 or 2 coyotes a year and they're usually hundreds of yards away on a dead run. If that's an infestation, Arizona is overrun. I don't know if people just don't hunt them there or what.

Seeing them has never been a simple task, especially where they are heavily hunted like everywhere in Utah.

We have some of the best coyote hunters in the west right here, Al Morris, Tom Austin (both of whom work for FoxPro) and John Bair, just to name a few.
These guys kill hundreds of dogs a year right here under our noses.

I'll retract my "infestation" comment.
It is extreme, but a coyote is a cockroach, and when you see those, you have an infestation.

 

[elkassassin]

The Harder You Hunt Them The Smarter They Get!

 

[hogg_65]

LMAO hogg!

I'll Go Along With Your Plan!

Let's See How Many Others Will?

30"+!

Cheaters!

I'm In!

Most Hunters Have Never Seen Bucks Like You're Talkin On General Units!

HELL-F'N-RIGHT!

How many legal Bucks get killed in Utah with those APR restrictions?

Is that aggressive enough to put more bucks on the landscape?

Will that surplus of Bucks after 2 years, get all the does bred and bred early?

Who would complain not being allowed to shoot a 2pt?

 

[elkassassin]

How many legal Bucks get killed in Utah with those APR restrictions?Not Many For Several Years!

Is that aggressive enough to put more bucks on the landscape?That's A Perty Damn Good Start!

Will that surplus of Bucks after 2 years, get all the does bred and bred early?Probably So!

Who would complain not being allowed to shoot a 2pt? Oh We have Some Of Them On Here!

I Can Hear The OPPOR-F'N-TUNISTS BAWLING Already!

 

[slamdunk]

Who would complain not being allowed to shoot a 2pt?

A hell of a lot more than you realize, probably the majority of GS hunters.

 

[hogg_65]

A hell of a lot more than you realize, probably the majority of GS hunters.

So continue cater to that majority?
I say APR restrictions like what I proposed above is better than:
Tag Cuts.
Unit/Season closures.

 

[elkassassin]

I'd Let Them PISSCUTTER Pounders Pound Sand For A Few Years!

 

[hogg_65]

They would be able to hunt deer.
They just couldn't shoot that MOTL looking at them on the side of the road.

 

[slamdunk]

So continue cater to that majority?
I say APR restrictions like what I proposed above is better than:
Tag Cuts.
Unit/Season closures.

With the utmost respect, we are into this thread 638 posts now.
There isn't much that hasn't already been tossed around, debated or argued over.

No one on here can physically do anything to these proposals, we are simply a chat forum.

If you're serious about being heard, the RAC's are there for us all, as are emails to the committees, rac members and wildlife board.

 

[Bux n Dux]

So continue cater to that majority?
I say APR restrictions like what I proposed above is better than:
Tag Cuts.
Unit/Season closures.

The current APR proposal just makes for a banner youth hunt. A tag in your pocket does no good when the majority of the bucks alive in the unit aren’t legal by definition.

 

[elkassassin]

With the utmost respect, we are into this thread 638 posts now.
There isn't much that hasn't already been tossed around, debated or argued over.

No one on here can physically do anything to these proposals, we are simply a chat forum.

If you're serious about being heard, the RAC's are there for us all, as are emails to the committees, rac members and wildlife board.

And No Matter What The RAC's Decide The WB Can & Will Over-Ride It!

 

[elkassassin]

True!

But Are We Gonna Give Them A Chance To Mature A Bit?

Or Not?

The current APR proposal just makes for a banner youth hunt. A tag in your pocket does no good when the majority of the bucks alive in the unit aren’t legal by definition.

 

[slamdunk]

True!

But Are We Gonna Give Them A Chance To Mature A Bit?

Or Not?

It's getting too many thumbs down.....Kamala wins
"Four More Years"
6 in this case

 

[elkassassin]

DAMN It PUNK!

I Was Already In A Bad Enough Mood & You Had To Mention That!

JUDAS!

It's getting too many thumbs down.....Kamala wins

 

[hogg_65]

With the utmost respect, we are into this thread 638 posts now.
There isn't much that hasn't already been tossed around, debated or argued over.

No one on here can physically do anything to these proposals, we are simply a chat forum.

If you're serious about being heard, the RAC's are there for us all, as are emails to the committees, rac members and wildlife board.

Agree with you slamdunk
Nobody has taken the APR to that extreme on this thread.
Thought I would throw something on the wall with the rest of you.
I will continue to do surveys and respond to the dwr rac proposals and watch/attend the racs right along with you.
Also watch the board do as they please.
Then read all the MM chatter and post sparingly.

 

[slamdunk]

Agree with you slamdunk
Nobody has taken the APR to that extreme on this thread.
Thought I would throw something on the wall with the rest of you.
I will continue to do surveys and respond to the dwr rac proposals and watch/attend the racs right along with you.
Also watch the board do as they please.
Then read all the MM chatter and post sparingly.

Lol....that's all we can do, my friend

 

[elkassassin]

You Need to Post More Often hogg!

And I Quote:

Watch The Board Do As They Please!!!!

Agree with you slamdunk
Nobody has taken the APR to that extreme on this thread.
Thought I would throw something on the wall with the rest of you.
I will continue to do surveys and respond to the dwr rac proposals and watch/attend the racs right along with you.
Also watch the board do as they please.
Then read all the MM chatter and post sparingly.

 

[elkassassin]

Am I Enhancing My Odds On Any 2025 Permits Yet?

 

[quest]

I’m definitely not a talker when it comes to these rac meetings but maybe someone on here could do that slamdunk hmmm ?

 

[hossblur]

I Still Say Giving The OPPOR-F'N-TUNISTS A Few Units To Destroy Would Be A Good Plan!

When They Enter The OPPORTUNIST'S Program They Are Locked In It For Life!

Give Them 2 or 3 Tags Annually!

Let Em Hunt 6 Months Out Of The Year!

Let Them Kill Anything From FAWNS On Up To Their Trophy Class Of OPPORTUNITY Bucks!

When Them Units Are F'D Up Don't Come A BAWLIN!

Just Keep Your OPPORTUNITY & Keep On Hunting!

Deal.

And, everyone who wants tag cuts, gives up deer hunting

 

[Bux n Dux]

True!

But Are We Gonna Give Them A Chance To Mature A Bit?

Or Not?

Not if the kids get to shoot anything with antlers

 

[elkassassin]

Did You Not COMPRE-F'N-HEND?

So 2 Or 3 Tags Isn't Enough For You Per Year?

Hunting For 6 Months Out Of The Year Isn't Enough For You?

Getting You COVETED Guaranteed Tags Every Year Isn't Enough For You?

Killing Any Deer You Wanna Kill Isn't Enough For You?

PLEASE SPLAIN JUST WTF WOULD SATISFY YOU?

Deal.

And, everyone who wants tag cuts, gives up deer hunting

 

[elkassassin]

Ya!

They Need To Start A YOUTH ONLY Unit Or Two As Well!

They Just Can't F'N Stand Not To Kill The PISSCUTTER Bucks!

QUALITY/MATURE BUCK Units Are Not For Everybody!

Let Them OTHER/OPPORTUNISTS Have A Piece Of Their Own F'N Pie & Let Them Manage Them Units As They DAMN Well Please!

After They FRICK Em Up,Don't Come A BAWLIN!

Not if the kids get to shoot anything with antlers

 

[hossblur]

Hossblur,
Do you really think it is a good idea to only allow recurve and long bows as archery equipment?

A good idea? Statewide or single unit?

I think bow success rates are pretty low to start with, so while there are tweak, I'm not sure long bows just yet.

 

[hossblur]

He does, in the name of "opportunity." You know, on the one unit that they are proposing restrictions to recurve and long bows that they are removing from the general season units and making it LE again.

You know....opportunity! He'll show up with his long bow ready to go on that tag that will still be there, though!

You should pick up a bow. As the spokesman for oppurtunists, you should try your hand at the hunt that gives the most oppurtunity.

I did. Just for that reason. Got my boys involved because it's easy to see that in the future, that's where the most tags will be, thus the most oppurtunity.

Pick one up, it will make you less likely to cry about the injustice of losing your 20x

 

[hossblur]

What's become abundantly clear is Tristate version of "oppurtunity" is shared by quite a few people.

Somehow, dudes believe oppurtunity, means license=buck. Bess obviously does. I'm starting to believe Vanilla does as well.

Oppurtunity simply means you get a tag. And frankly, ANY tag is better than sitting home. Whether you kill I'd up to you.

I picked up a bow at 40 because it was easy to see, archery is where the oppurtunity is headed.

I love the old stories, I tell them too. But I don't live in old Utah. My stories about hunting foothills, got replaced with three car garages and swimming pools.

My stories of watching big bucks migrate off the west side of Sanpete to the desert got replaced with i-15 and continued bumper to bumper.

My story about the one weekend we hunted in St George got replaced by one of the fastest growing cities in the US.


But what also was a story, my open sight side hammer muzzy shooting #11 and pistol powder with 390 gr slugs, got replaced with a CVA Accura complete with scope, 777, and powerbelt.

My story of the 99c Savage .308 with open sights, is now a scoped 06'.

We can continue to pretend it's Utah 1960 or we can accept it's 2024.

Our deer herds won't get bigger. We can fight to maintain them, but they won't get bigger. Our towns will. Our roads will, our rzr will.

So. We can either throw up our hands, load up a Lapua with a 30x gps guided and get to ending hunting.

Or. We can hunt.

As apparently one of the few true oppurtunists in here, I'm obviously in the minority. I'll take the tag. Because any tag, is better than golf.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

If the whole state went to APR everyone could have a tag.
The harvest success would drop tremendously.

The youth could harvest whatever and if it starts getting out of hand and the youth can’t keep it in check, then they can start managing and issuing tags on each unit 4 point or less for adults and keep it in check.

It’s not really that hard.

I 100% agree on this. The hard part is getting people on board.

I seen a pic yesterday on a flat bed trailer of 8 hunters and 8 dead deer and the biggest one was a 3x3 the rest were dinky 3x2 and 2 points and 1 spike. two of the hunters was youth the rest were adults.
The funny thing about all of this is they complained to my buddy they didn't see any big bucks and they wasn't going home empty handed, my buddy told them well if you let them walk they will have a chance to get bigger. The dad laughed and said let them walk for someone else to shoot. by the time we draw this tag again they will all be dead, I guess it took them 4 years to draw.
The dad makes a valid point and the only way to stop this is APR.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

What is a good buck to doe ratio for a healthy herd Slam?

 

[Vanilla]

What's become abundantly clear is Tristate version of "oppurtunity" is shared by quite a few people.

Somehow, dudes believe oppurtunity, means license=buck. Bess obviously does. I'm starting to believe Vanilla does as well.

Oppurtunity simply means you get a tag. And frankly, ANY tag is better than sitting home. Whether you kill I'd up to you.

I picked up a bow at 40 because it was easy to see, archery is where the oppurtunity is headed.

I love the old stories, I tell them too. But I don't live in old Utah. My stories about hunting foothills, got replaced with three car garages and swimming pools.

My stories of watching big bucks migrate off the west side of Sanpete to the desert got replaced with i-15 and continued bumper to bumper.

My story about the one weekend we hunted in St George got replaced by one of the fastest growing cities in the US.


But what also was a story, my open sight side hammer muzzy shooting #11 and pistol powder with 390 gr slugs, got replaced with a CVA Accura complete with scope, 777, and powerbelt.

My story of the 99c Savage .308 with open sights, is now a scoped 06'.

We can continue to pretend it's Utah 1960 or we can accept it's 2024.

Our deer herds won't get bigger. We can fight to maintain them, but they won't get bigger. Our towns will. Our roads will, our rzr will.

So. We can either throw up our hands, load up a Lapua with a 30x gps guided and get to ending hunting.

Or. We can hunt.

As apparently one of the few true oppurtunists in here, I'm obviously in the minority. I'll take the tag. Because any tag, is better than golf.

Too long, didn’t read after the bolded part. But you 100% know this isn’t true. So it makes me wonder who got to you? Give us the money trail Hossy!

Also, I don’t own a 20x, but good try! Enough swings and a miss from you in this thread to have a perfect game with 27 strike outs.

 

[Keystone]

Its wild to read Vanilla.

Vanilla, the entire state, short of maybe box elder archery, is limited entry now. I realuze not for LL holders, but the rest of us have to put in actual applications, and build points and cross fingers. So a few higher age class bucks on units we hunt every 3rd year and getting worse, is a positive

 

[hossblur]

Too long, didn’t read after the bolded part. But you 100% know this isn’t true. So it makes me wonder who got to you? Give us the money trail Hossy!

Also, I don’t own a 20x, but good try! Enough swings and a miss from you in this thread to have a perfect game with 27 strike outs.

Winchester, Marlin, Henry.

Obviously this is a scheme by them to dominate the hunting world.

 

[Vanilla]

Its wild to read Vanilla.

Vanilla, the entire state, short of maybe box elder archery, is limited entry now. I realuze not for LL holders, but the rest of us have to put in actual applications, and build points and cross fingers. So a few higher age class bucks on units we hunt every 3rd year and getting worse, is a positive

And the fact that I do NOT have to wait in line and would benefit from these things more than most, yet I’m still against them, ought to tell you something.

Enjoy your every 5-6 years hunting in the future I guess. Because that’s where you are headed. (If you’re lucky)

I won’t force anyone to help themselves. Believe what you want, but I’ll be here saying I told you so when it’s all said and done, and nobody will be able to say I didn’t try.