Shooting form one unit to the next?

[accubond]

Unit boundary question and this may be common sense for some but it isn't for me so here goes. Can I take a vantage point in a neighboring unit and shoot from that unit/vantage point into the unit I hold the tag for?

 

[jm77]

Unit boundary question and this may be common sense for some but it isn't for me so here goes. Can I take a vantage point in a neighboring unit and shoot from that unit/vantage point into the unit I hold the tag for?

No, you will be hunting in the wrong unit.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Depends on the state. Call the warden in the areas you are thinking of hunting and ask him. Get something in writing or where to find it in the regulations/ laws.

 

[Bookhead]

Pursue to the game and fish means attempt to take so no you can't pursue/ attempt to take game in the wrong unit

 

[treedagain]

It has been done in Utah along the Green River for RMB.

 

[jm77]

It has been done in Utah along the Green River for RMB.

And that has what to do about Wyoming?

 

[nripepi]

And that has what to do about Wyoming?

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

Was told in Colorado once you had to be in the unit. Don't see much in regulations on the subject.

 

[jm77]

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

No actually, why would you say that?

I would assume if he wanted to know the answer to the question in all states, he would have posted in the General forum.

 

[Sparks Shooter]

It would be interesting to see if there was actually any cases that set precedent for this. With today's new-fangled ways of hunting, you can literally pursue game from miles away using optics and hardly even notice the surroundings where you are. Anyone who can buy a gun and some bullets can apparently shoot 1/2 mile or more easily across unit lines......heck even state lines.

The 'kill' is really what is regulated, everything else is hiking, or driving, around while armed. If the kill or take happens in the right place, then it seems all is well.

Same type of question if you are on public land and the deer is on public land but you shoot across the corner of a private field. Did you trespass? What if you shoot across the corner of another zone?

All questions we never thought would need to be answered?---SS

 

[nfh]

Sounds more like plan to on Purpose shoot into another unit and find a reason to do so.

 

[accubond]

Sounds more like plan to on Purpose shoot into another unit and find a reason to do so.

Not at all, the unit I drew this year has a river for a border and there is very good vantage points in the other unit that give a very commanding view into my unit and within what I consider ethical ranges (400 yards).

 

[nfh]

Not at all, the unit I drew this year has a river for a border and there is very good vantage points in the other unit that give a very commanding view into my unit and within what I consider ethical ranges (400 yards).

I read your question wrong. I read it as shoot a deer in a neighbor unit.

Fair enough question. Actually I see elk hunters do it often. Sit on a high rim for a vantage point then move into the elk in legal unit.

Now if a game warden caught you it would really depend on his mood of the day. Also a lot of elk units in my area invole crossing through a unit your tag isn't good for and can spot elk in your legal unit.

 

[jm77]

I read your question wrong. I read it as shoot a deer in a neighbor unit.

Fair enough question. Actually I see elk hunters do it often. Sit on a high rim for a vantage point then move into the elk in legal unit.

Now if a game warden caught you it would really depend on his mood of the day. Also a lot of elk units in my area invole crossing through a unit your tag isn't good for and can spot elk in your legal unit.

Michael, you know of guys that shoot into their unit from another? Or do they spot from another unit and go after the elk in their unit?

 

[jm77]

ell.

Same type of question if you are on public land and the deer is on public land but you shoot across the corner of a private field. Did you trespass? What if you shoot across the corner of another zone?

All questions we never thought would need to be answered?---SS

In Wyoming, regulation specifically states a hunter cannot shoot across private land without permission.

Shooting across a corner of an area (if you could find that) while you and the animal are in your area, seems like not a problem. Don't think that is addressed in the regs, which would make it ok.

 

[accubond]

In Wyoming, regulation specifically states a hunter cannot shoot across private land without permission.

Shooting across a corner of an area (if you could find that) while you and the animal are in your area, seems like not a problem. Don't think that is addressed in the regs, which would make it ok.

My scenario wouldn't involve any private, I'd be shooting from public in another unit at an animal on public in my unit. I've never scouted a credible scenario like this until I drew this tag and although there's plenty of other spots that look to have potential the spots I'm asking about are worthy of figuring out if this can be done.

 

[nfh]

Michael, you know of guys that shoot into their unit from another? Or do they spot from another unit and go after the elk in their unit?

They spot and move into their legal unit for the shot.

Have seen people do as what the question states but that involves neighbor units that are both general units.

 

[nripepi]

While we are on this subject, I found a place I could shoot non-wilderness to non-wilderness but my bullet would pass through a wilderness area, can I take that shot as a non-resident in Wyoming?

 

[mulecreek]

Not sure if it’s ok or not but I would think you would have to be one heck of a DB not to be able to talk your way out of that ticket.

 

[Calbuck]

I say go hunt and get your business done..

 

[jm77]

My scenario wouldn't involve any private, I'd be shooting from public in another unit at an animal on public in my unit. I've never scouted a credible scenario like this until I drew this tag and although there's plenty of other spots that look to have potential the spots I'm asking about are worthy of figuring out if this can be done.

You need to call the warden in that area. I doubt the G&F is going to tell you that's ok. I can see accessing your area from or through another area. But when you actually shoot from a place that's not in your hunt area, most likely you're going to see the judge.

 

[Servehim]

You're probably correct jm77 but if so that's a stupid regulation. If my targeted critter is in my licensed hunting unit....mission accomplished.

 

[Bluehair]

It would be interesting to see if there was actually any cases that set precedent for this. With today's new-fangled ways of hunting, you can literally pursue game from miles away using optics and hardly even notice the surroundings where you are. Anyone who can buy a gun and some bullets can apparently shoot 1/2 mile or more easily across unit lines......heck even state lines.

The 'kill' is really what is regulated, everything else is hiking, or driving, around while armed. If the kill or take happens in the right place, then it seems all is well.

Same type of question if you are on public land and the deer is on public land but you shoot across the corner of a private field. Did you trespass? What if you shoot across the corner of another zone?

All questions we never thought would need to be answered?---SS

So when you’re shooting across my property, if I shoot back and don’t hit you it’s ok then? If it’s a creed and the bullet never comes down I doubt it’s even trespassing?

Crazy times indeed.

 

[Bluehair]

While we are on this subject, I found a place I could shoot non-wilderness to non-wilderness but my bullet would pass through a wilderness area, can I take that shot as a non-resident in Wyoming?

I would think if you bought local Wyoming ammo it would be ok?

This thread makes my head explode.

 

[elkmo41]

In Wyoming, regulation specifically states a hunter cannot shoot across private land without permission.

Shooting across a corner of an area (if you could find that) while you and the animal are in your area, seems like not a problem. Don't think that is addressed in the regs, which would make it ok.

Crazy! Probably zero tickets written on this one, would not even give it a thought while hunting in 99.9% of situations without a residence involved.

 

[FrontRange]

Don't mean to step into the Wyoming thread, but I think the act of firing a rifle at a game animal is considered hunting. Your hunting tag is probably good for hunting in a specific unit.

 

[jm77]

From a former Wy G&F warden when asked if it was ok shooting from a different area than your license to an animal in your area:

"In my opinion yes. The taking of the animal occurs where it is standing"

In other words check with the local warden and see what their opinion is.

 

[Hunt_the_West]

From a former Wy G&F warden when asked if it was ok shooting from a different area than your license to an animal in your area:

"In my opinion yes. The taking of the animal occurs where it is standing"

In other words check with the local warden and see what their opinion is.

This is what I was told a few years back as well.

 

[Bookhead]

From a former Wy G&F warden when asked if it was ok shooting from a different area than your license to an animal in your area:

"In my opinion yes. The taking of the animal occurs where it is standing"

In other words check with the local warden and see what their opinion is.

I think you could definitely get a ticket for it. Shooting from a different area is all part of the attempt to take the animal. If you trespassed and shot an animal from private land without permission onto public land you'd still get a ticket for hunting without permission guarantee it

 

[Hunt_the_West]

I think you could definitely get a ticket for it. Shooting from a different area is all part of the attempt to take the animal. If you trespassed and shot an animal from private land without permission onto public land you'd still get a ticket for hunting without permission guarantee it

If you trespass you are getting a ticket whether an animal is shot or not.

 

[jm77]

I think you could definitely get a ticket for it. Shooting from a different area is all part of the attempt to take the animal. If you trespassed and shot an animal from private land without permission onto public land you'd still get a ticket for hunting without permission guarantee it

It might be most important where the animal is at apparently.

Your trespass example is not the same thing.

 

[Bookhead]

It might be most important where the animal is at apparently.

Your trespass example is not the same thing.

The ticket would be for hunting on private land wouldn't it? Not just trespassing. Then it would have to be considered hunting in the wrong unit if the shot is fired from the wrong unit, which would fall under the description of pursuit which reads as an attempt to take. That's the reason why you can't turn hounds loose on a lion track until legal shooting light because pusuit is an attempt to take. And I bet you can't a fire a shot from within the park to a bison outside of the park on the bison hunt either

 

[Katoom]

The reason this should be and probably is illegal is it is “too cute by half”. It is putting the burden on the game warden to believe you were only hunting your unit from the other unit. but perhaps you WERE also hunting the adjacent unit and this is just your story. Try walking around during the season with a loaded rifle deeper in a unit you have no tag for, with all your elk gear, and tell the warden “but I didn’t shoot anything, so I wasn’t hunting (poaching)”. Good luck in court!

You have a HUNTING licence…. and then a HARVEST tag. Two different concepts. But both valid only in specific unit(s). And hunting in the wrong unit is usually called poaching. Try this at a state boundary (WY looking into CO, for example) and see what happens .

 

[jm77]

The ticket would be for hunting on private land wouldn't it? Not just trespassing. Then it would have to be considered hunting in the wrong unit if the shot is fired from the wrong unit, which would fall under the description of pursuit which reads as an attempt to take. That's the reason why you can't turn hounds loose on a lion track until legal shooting light because pusuit is an attempt to take. And I bet you can't a fire a shot from within the park to a bison outside of the park on the bison hunt either

The hunting part is legal, the trespass is the violation. The former warden I spoke to said it's where the animal is standing, not where you shoot from.

As far as bison from the Park, I suspect shooting in the Park is prohibited. But I stalked a bison through the Park to NF and shot it on the NF. I would think that is hunting on the Park, even though the bison and I were on the NF.

Now I'm getting confused!

 

[Servehim]

What's the purpose in defining where animals are harvested? It's very simple, to properly manage the critters taken in said unit, not complicated imo. Where the shot originated is irrelevant, infringing on private property is another issue.

 

[Katoom]

It is not irrelevent where the shot is taken from, for from that location, you are engaged in the act of hunting, which requires a valid licence. Your licence is only VALID in the designated unit, thus if you are physically outside the unit, you cannot hunt legally, as you do not hold a valid licence there.

for example, Wyoming statute: “Hunt Area” means the area within a defined geographic boundary where a license shall be valid.

from Colorado: Unit Number - The third through fifth characters are numbers denoting the unit or group of units in which the license is valid.

B. Except as otherwise provided, any person who hunts or fishes in Colorado shall have in possession the appropriate and valid Colorado resident or nonresident hunting, fishing or furbearer license including a customer identification number.

F. Any person who hunts big game or turkey in a game management unit, or portions thereof, for which the Wildlife Commission has established limited license quotas must have a limited license valid for that unit. General season, over-the-counter licenses may not be used in a limited license unit unless validated by the Division.

G. Any person possessing a license or permit restricted to a specific game management unit or portions thereof, may only hunt that unit or area for which his license or permit is issued.

 

[wildfin]

I think the only evidence is going to be were the animal lays

 

[Katoom]

I think the only evidence is going to be were the animal lays

Fair enough, but what statutory evidence supports and backs up what you think? Or is it one of those “badges? we don’t need no stinkin’ badges” lines of reasoning.

 

[nripepi]

Fair enough, but what statutory evidence supports and backs up what you think? Or is it one of those “badges? we don’t need no stinkin’ badges” lines of reasoning.

I asked a warden in Colorado and he told me I could not do what is being proposed and needed to be in the unit to shoot. He said I needed to have one foot in the river or the deer needed to have one foot in the river, depending which way you were shooting with the river the boundary.

 

[Bookhead]

What's the purpose in defining where animals are harvested? It's very simple, to properly manage the critters taken in said unit, not complicated imo. Where the shot originated is irrelevant, infringing on private property is another issue.

It is not irrelevant. It is all part of the scenario of the harvest. Try shooting from a close area into an open area. Bet you get popped big time

 

[nripepi]

It is not irrelevant. It is all part of the scenario of the harvest. Try shooting from a close area into an open area. Bet you get popped big time

Exactly, Unit A is closed, your tag is Unit B, both are public, can you shoot from A to B? No way I say. I don't think this is legal.

 

[Bookhead]

The hunting part is legal, the trespass is the violation. The former warden I spoke to said it's where the animal is standing, not where you shoot from.

As far as bison from the Park, I suspect shooting in the Park is prohibited. But I stalked a bison through the Park to NF and shot it on the NF. I would think that is hunting on the Park, even though the bison and I were on the NF.

Now I'm getting confused!

If I was a betting man I'd say they would write the ticket for hunting without permission not simple trespass

 

[jm77]

If I was a betting man I'd say they would write the ticket for hunting without permission not simple trespass

I think most on here are talking about public one area to public another area. Only way to know what will happen is talk to the warden, who in most cases will be giving his/her own opinion because there is nothing in statute or regulation that addresses this.

Either way, it won't hold up in court.

 

[Katoom]

I think most on here are talking about public one area to public another area. Only way to know what will happen is talk to the warden, who in most cases will be giving his/her own opinion because there is nothing in statute or regulation that addresses this.

Either way, it won't hold up in court.

I do disagree that there is nothing in the statutes. There is very clear statute language that your licence is only valid IN the designated unit. So hunting and shooting from an adjacent unit is invalid on its face. I am so confused as to how this is confusing to people. Your licence is ONLY valid when used in its listed units. The OP is creating confusion out of thin air when there should be none.

 

[jm77]

I do disagree that there is nothing in the statutes. There is very clear statute language that your licence is only valid IN the designated unit. So hunting and shooting from an adjacent unit is invalid on its face. I am so confused as to how this is confusing to people. Your licence is ONLY valid when used in its listed units. The OP is creating confusion out of thin air when there should be none.

Link for this in the statute? Or statute number?

 

[jims]

There are probably a bunch of scenarios dealing with private/public, state borders, wilderness, etc that likely have no designations in the regulations.

So if a hunter has one foot in Wyoming and the other foot in Colorado.....and he shoots a deer in a Wyoming unit where he has a tag fo he is ok? If he has both feet inside Colorado and shoots a buck in Wyoming he could be in deep do-do? What if the hunter has 1 foot in a river that borders Idaho and shoots a buck on the Wyo side of the river? What if he's in a boat (with no motor) on the Wyo/Idaho border and shoots a buck in either state?

 

[Katoom]

Link for this in the statute? Or statute number?

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/media/29981/download?inline

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/RulesRegs/Regulations/Ch00.pdf

regulations don’t hold one’s hand for every conceivable scenario, but rather rely on definitions and rules that are applicable across most normal situations. that’s why you won’t find regulations answering whether it is legal to stand on your head while blindfolded and whistling dixie and shooting a gun with your big toe through the uprights on a football field on the exact stroke of midnight on a leap year in a hail storm.

It’s very clear WHERE a license is valid, and thus where it isn’t. It’s up to the hunter to apply this according to their tolerance of obtaining a game violation by hunting outside one’s unit while claiming they were were not hunting, only shooting.

 

[jm77]

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/media/29981/download?inline

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/RulesRegs/Regulations/Ch00.pdf

“Hunt Area” means the area within a defined geographic boundary where a license shall be valid.

This definition in no way addresses what we are talking about.

Why did you bother to include Colorado?

 

[Katoom]

“Hunt Area” means the area within a defined geographic boundary where a license shall be valid.

This definition in no way addresses what we are talking about.

Why did you bother to include Colorado?

On the contrary, I think it TOTALLY addresses what is being talked about.

So if you hunt outside the unit you think you are inside the unit?

I included CO for further examples. Go hunt outside your unit if you want, but my advice to you remains “don’t”

 

[junior]

Good grief! Just call the area warden. Save everyone from arguing and guessing.
Then report back so we all know and the guys can argue over who is wrong.
Just a fyi to you Non Residents.
You all already got short round fired up. Next Mr potato head will be over here! If you get him rowd after 8pm and he's drinking...lookout!
Who knows what may happen?? You may have to buy a permit to $hit in woods or something crazy!

 

[jims]

It's a hunter issue not just nonres vs res! This is an interesting idea that I don't think has ever really been asked or addressed.

It seems like if a buck, bull or whatever is shot and laying dead within the border of a unit it really doesn't matter where the bullet started from? The critter is dead and was struck by a bullet within the boundary of the unit. There are so many scenarios listed in my post above that I think it would be pretty involved to answer every possible event in the regulations. It sounds like it is wishy-washy and would be a judgement call by a particular local game warden unless the regulations address the main question.

Does the initial location or travel of a bullet from outside a unit or across private land really matter if a bullet kills a critter within the confines of a unit on public land or where permission on private land has been granted?

 

[wildfin]

If it were blm land for instance you can shoot a gun no matter what unit you are in,I haven't seen any law that says you cant fire a weapon on that land. I don't know how a warden could even come up with a violation to put on the ticket , he is going to need one.

 

[Katoom]

If it were blm land for instance you can shoot a gun no matter what unit you are in,I haven't seen any law that says you cant fire a weapon on that land. I don't know how a warden could even come up with a violation to put on the ticket , he is going to need one.

You’d have to be a pretty uncreative game warden not to be aware that hunting without a valid licence is a violation.

Shoot cans all you want… but shooting at game is hunting.

 

[jm77]

You’d have to be a pretty uncreative game warden not to be aware that hunting without a valid licence is a violation.

Shoot cans all you want… but shooting at game is hunting.

Wow, this deal has really rubbed you raw for some reason! My sheep tag is in the drawer of my desk right now and not in the hunting area, but it's still a "valid" license. Bottom line: the area on the license better match up with where that animal is laying dead.

Get over it and call a warden and listen to what they have to say.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Can’t believe this topic has went on this long.

 

[Katoom]

Yeah, sorry I seem so invested. I’m really not, but it’s the offseason, cmon! I also think you are all crazy if you disagree with me but I won’t hold it against you long term.

There’s gotta be another thread somewhere about corner crossing or public access to the waterfront that can absorb some summer angst…

 

[elks96]

You’d have to be a pretty uncreative game warden not to be aware that hunting without a valid licence is a violation.

Shoot cans all you want… but shooting at game is hunting.

Sorry but you are incorrect. I was only
Coyote hunting in the other unit. Therefore I am still legally able to hunt in any unit but only kill and animal in the unit the license requires. Again there is absolutely nothing in statute that would make this illegal. Especially since anyone can hunt coyotes year round in any unit without restriction.

Sorry but your argument does not hold any water at all.

 

[nripepi]

Sorry but you are incorrect. I was only
Coyote hunting in the other unit. Therefore I am still legally able to hunt in any unit but only kill and animal in the unit the license requires. Again there is absolutely nothing in statute that would make this illegal. Especially since anyone can hunt coyotes year round in any unit without restriction.

Sorry but your argument does not hold any water at all.

I can't believe everyone is siding with it is 100% legal. Surely it is debatable and not clear cut when it says:

“Hunt Area” means the area within a defined geographic boundary where a license shall be valid.

Heck, I am with Katoom where I think it is clear cut the other direction.

Unless there is a coyote standing right on the border when you shoot at it and miss and then hit an elk, I don't think you can definitely say you can huht from a different unit when it clearly states your tag is not valid in that other unit.

Can you shoot from Colorado into Wyoming? Can you shoot from a closed unit into an open unit? Can you shoot from Yellowstone into an open unit? I was specifically told that this is illegal in Colorado with similar language.

 

[Katoom]

Following several suggestions, I submitted the following written question to WYGF. I will post any written response that I get. Until then, opinions of course will continue to vary. Even after then, no doubt .

“I have a question regarding regulations. I would like to know whether it is legal when elk hunting with a unit-specific license, to glass from and shoot at a legal animal from an adjacent unit into the unit for which my license is valid? This would involve shooting across the unit boundary and into the designated unit.”

 

[jm77]

I can't believe everyone is siding with it is 100% legal.

You really don't mean this, correct?

I'm the only one on this thread that took the time to contact a long time Wy game warden who actually had this happen. (Edit: apparently @Katoom has sent a request) The warden's conclusion was, it is where the animal is standing. No ticket.

But that doesn't mean a different warden would come up with a different take. However, if challenged, it would never stand up in court without out the proper wording in the law.

 

[Katoom]

You really don't mean this, correct?

I'm the only one on this thread that took the time to contact a long time Wy game warden who actually had this happen. (Edit: apparently @Katoom has sent a request) The warden's conclusion was, it is where the animal is standing. No ticket.

But that doesn't mean a different warden would come up with a different take. However, if challenged, it would never stand up in court without out the proper wording in the law.

Agreed with this point that asking a warden is iffy, without getting both the question and answer in writing provides much protection. Wardens change, circumstances vary, and even how we phrase a question might steer an informed person to answer incorrectly. This is why it is best to err on the side of caution and use plain language. It is not a valid argument or strategy to always say it won’t hold up in court. You never know what will happen once it gets there, and losing hunting privileges or having an animal confiscated, or even going through an expensive unpleasant ordeal on a bad / agressive bet seems reckless (to me).

 

[mntnguide]

No, you cannot shoot from Yellowstone into an open unit. Just the same as if you shoot a bull in the general unit, and it crosses into Yellowstone it is 100% illegal to retrieve, even if its over the line by 10ft technically. Never had to deal with it, but had the conversation with Park wardens on the line in the backcountry before about it...Little different situation considering its the Park.

 

[jm77]

No, you cannot shoot from Yellowstone into an open unit. Just the same as if you shoot a bull in the general unit, and it crosses into Yellowstone it is 100% illegal to retrieve, even if its over the line by 10ft technically. Never had to deal with it, but had the conversation with Park wardens on the line in the backcountry before about it...Little different situation considering its the Park.

However, you can cross the Park line with your firearm and there is nothing the Park Service can do about that.

 

[BuzzH]

I believe it would be legal.

 

[nripepi]

You really don't mean this, correct?

I'm the only one on this thread that took the time to contact a long time Wy game warden who actually had this happen. (Edit: apparently @Katoom has sent a request) The warden's conclusion was, it is where the animal is standing. No ticket.

I have contacted a state game and fish department (not in WY but with similar rules) that told me it was illegal. You bet if I hunted a unit with this situation I would be asking. Can I shoot from a closed unit into an open unit?

 

[ClearCreek]

At a WGFD game warden training several years ago (mid-2000's), this very topic was discussed. The Chief Game Warden at the time indicated that shooting from one hunt area into another hunt area was illegal.

He said the hunter and the game animal had to both be in the hunt area where the license was valid.

ClearCreek

 

[jm77]

At a WGFD game warden training several years ago (mid-2000's), this very topic was discussed. The Chief Game Warden at the time indicated that shooting from one hunt area into another hunt area was illegal.

He said the hunter and the game animal had to both be in the hunt area where the license was valid.

ClearCreek

Did he advise what statute or regulation to write it under? There is obviously a regulation on hunting the wrong area.

 

[ClearCreek]

Did he advise what statute or regulation to write it under?

That was most likely discussed, I got this info from a retired GW friend that was at the training.

We are meeting for coffee tomorrow morning so I will ask him what statute or regulation it violates.

ClearCreek

 

[nripepi]

That was most likely discussed, I got this info from a retired GW friend that was at the training.

We are meeting for coffee tomorrow morning so I will ask him what statute or regulation it violates.

ClearCreek

I am guessing it will be "Hunting in the wrong area" under 23-1-102 "To establish zones and areas in which trophy game animals may be taken as game animals with a license"

(vii) "Take" means hunt, pursue, catch, capture, shoot, fish, seine, trap, kill, or possess, or attempt to hunt, pursue, catch, capture, shoot, fish, seine, trap, kill, or possess;

The definition of Take includes Shoot which I think is the clincher here when you Shoot to Take out of the Zone or Area your license is good for.

https://wyoleg.gov/statutes/compress/title23.pdf

 

[jm77]

I am guessing it will be "Hunting in the wrong area" under 23-1-102 "To establish zones and areas in which trophy game animals may be taken as game animals with a license"

(vii) "Take" means hunt, pursue, catch, capture, shoot, fish, seine, trap, kill, or possess, or attempt to hunt, pursue, catch, capture, shoot, fish, seine, trap, kill, or possess;

The definition of Take includes Shoot which I think is the clincher here when you Shoot to Take out of the Zone or Area your license is good for.

https://wyoleg.gov/statutes/compress/title23.pdf

This is great stuff, are you a lawyer?

Bottom line is they don't specifically speak to what we are discussing and a warden most likely would write it under some broader regulation, if he wrote it at all, like the retired warden I know. I'm sure the reason this has never been addressed specifically in regulation, is that it is a rare occurrence.

 

[nripepi]

This is great stuff, are you a lawyer?

Bottom line is they don't specifically speak to what we are discussing and a warden most likely would write it under some broader regulation, if he wrote it at all, like the retired warden I know. I'm sure the reason this has never been addressed specifically in regulation, is that it is a rare occurrence.

Are you?

Let's see what we hear back from the Game Warden from their Training before being more of an ass? Deal?

 

[jm77]

Are you?

Let's see what we hear back from the Game Warden from their Training before being more of an ass? Deal?

OK, but I'm not sure you can be more of an ass.

 

[Homer]

Not at all, the unit I drew this year has a river for a border and there is very good vantage points in the other unit that give a very commanding view into my unit and within what I consider ethical ranges (400 yards).

Call a warden and ask........do not go by what you hear here....

I doubt a warden would think it is a shady question...

 

[BuzzH]

OK, but I'm not sure you can be more of an ass.

Should have added, "about everything Wyoming".

 

[kickerbuck]

Not 100% sure exactly what Wyoming laws would say or how a statute is written there, but there has been many questions and statements asking what law or if a warden would just make stuff up.

A warden could certainly write a ticket for unlawful take/possession or hunting outside of unit boundaries. If the Hunter wanted to take it to court then let him or her. If the warden articulated the reasoning with the law properly I would
think he would win this case in court. It would all depend on each states statutes
and the actual wording of their laws.

 

[nripepi]

OK, but I'm not sure you can be more of an ass.

I am trying not to but the two of you jump on everything by everyone, it is just old. I apologize.

 

[nripepi]

Should have added, "about everything Wyoming".

October 1st. Unit 100 is closed. You shoot from Unit 100 across the Sweetwater into Unit 25 that is open. You both really think this is legal to do? Seriously?

 

[Vanilla]

(vii) "Take" means hunt, pursue, catch, capture, shoot, fish, seine, trap, kill, or possess, or attempt to hunt, pursue, catch, capture, shoot, fish, seine, trap, kill, or possess;

Utah has a similar definition for take, and this hypothetical would most definitely be illegal in Utah.

 

[BuzzH]

October 1st. Unit 100 is closed. You shoot from Unit 100 across the Sweetwater into Unit 25 that is open. You both really think this is legal to do? Seriously?

Why wouldn't it be? You shot an animal standing in a unit you had a valid tag for.

 

[nripepi]

Why wouldn't it be? You shot an animal standing in a unit you had a valid tag for.

Your license is good for a zone or area to take an elk, Unit 25, shooting by law in Wyoming is part of taking that animal. When you shoot the animal from 100 you are hunting out of your area. Common sense and how most read the regulations. This has been debated in all states and most states include shooting as part of the take and your license to take an animal is for a certain area.

 

[jm77]

I am trying not to but the two of you jump on everything by everyone, it is just old. I apologize.

Please go back and read this thread and my comments. I think you'll see I somewhat changed my position after talking to a former Wyo game warden. I don't think I jumped on anyone. It is kind of strange that some want to bolster their argument by using other states for examples. I also advised to talk to the local warden before doing anything. You seemed to take every response personally.

You said we "jump on everything by everyone" but you seem to be the eternal argument all the time. Let's just agree to disagree on this one.

 

[nripepi]

Please go back and read this thread and my comments. I think you'll see I somewhat changed my position after talking to a former Wyo game warden. I don't think I jumped on anyone. It is kind of strange that some want to bolster their argument by using other states for examples. I also advised to talk to the local warden before doing anything. You seemed to take every response personally.

You said we "jump on everything by everyone" but you seem to be the eternal argument all the time. Let's just agree to disagree on this one.

OK. I apologized. I reread your comments and you argued on both sides of the issue and put people down multiple times on both sides which is kind of funny when you are saying I am the argumentative one? It is all good though, no big deal. Carry on.

When other states have similar language for take then I think it is applicable to the discussion, not that it is the answer but it should be discussed.

 

[BuzzH]

Your license is good for a zone or area to take an elk, Unit 25, shooting by law in Wyoming is part of taking that animal. When you shoot the animal from 100 you are hunting out of your area. Common sense and how most read the regulations. This has been debated in all states and most states include shooting as part of the take and your license to take an animal is for a certain area.

Right, and the bullet impacted and killed the elk in the unit I held a tag in.

I couldn't give a chit less if the bullet was fired from Mars.

 

[Vanilla]

The proposed action is illegal. It really isn’t even a close call.

You must possess a valid permit to take big game. The definition of “take,” as shared above, means more than just the final act of killing.

What most people call “poaching” isn’t called that in most states codes. It is referred to as an illegal take. That is why take is defined the way it is.

This is absolutely illegal. It’s an interesting question, but ultimately it is not a close call. It would be illegal.

 

[wildfin]

what unit did you tag the animal, says the judge, is your tag for that unit.

 

[kickerbuck]

what unit did you tag the animal, says the judge, is your tag for that unit.

No that easy! You would if nothing else have "Hunting Outside of Unit Boundaries"

 

[Bob D.]

No that easy! You would if nothing else have "Hunting Outside of Unit Boundaries"

The dead animal was in the correct area though, so why would it matter? I don't understand the controversy with this. It seems like a pointless argument.

 

[Bookhead]

The dead animal was in the correct area though, so why would it matter? I don't understand the controversy with this. It seems like a pointless argument.

Because you pursued it and shot from outside of the area your license was valid for. That's why it would matter

 

[Vanilla]

The dead animal was in the correct area though, so why would it matter? I don't understand the controversy with this. It seems like a pointless argument.

The only reason it matters is because the state has made that illegal. There is nothing inherently wrong with doing just as described. It became wrong when the state said you can't do it.

Just like just about every other wildlife law on the books.

 

[kickerbuck]

The dead animal was in the correct area though, so why would it matter? I don't understand the controversy with this. It seems like a pointless argument.

You're right it is a pointless argument, it's not legal. If a hunter has a rifle, is dressed in hunting attire, and is glassing looking for an animal he/she is "hunting." If said hunter then shoots across the road ect in another unit you have If nothing else "Hunting" outside of a unit boundaries. Which then means the animal was unlawfully taken.

Guys seriously this is not that hard! Agree or disagree I don't really care because it is an interesting scenario for sure. So go ahead post all the laughing crying faces you want, It's not legal.

 

[Bob D.]

The only reason it matters is because the state has made that illegal. There is nothing inherently wrong with doing just as described. It became wrong when the state said you can't do it.

Just like just about every other wildlife law on the books.

I've never seen a law that says you can't do this.

 

[nripepi]

The dead animal was in the correct area though, so why would it matter? I don't understand the controversy with this. It seems like a pointless argument.

How about these scenarios (*Units might not be realistic for the scenarios disclaimer)....

1. You have waited 20 years with max points to draw Unit 100 elk. Unit 25 opens a week early and a few herds are pushed out towards the border with most elk ending up in Unit 100. You stalk around on these elk and are getting ready to shoot a nice bull when one of the Unit 25 elk hunters takes a 1,000 yard shot from Unit 100 into Unit 25 at a raghorn and then scares the herd you are hunting in 100 towards 25 or at least away from your location. You are upset, should he be able to shoot from your unit into his or not?

2. You have a Unit 25 elk tag and you think you have to be in Unit 25 to shoot an elk as the way you interpreted the rules, you are in a remote canyon that takes you miles to walk around or a half day to drive around or you swim a raging river risking your life to get into your unit. You stalk a herd of elk, getting 100 yards above a bedded bull in a nasty cliff area and are getting ready to shoot it and then a bang rangs out and your bull falls over dead as someone takes a 1,000 yard shot across the canyon as they watch you stalk the elk in your blaze orange hat. Are you upset?

3. Two people from this forum (will not name names) think you do not have to be in your unit to shoot at an elk. One is in 25 but hunting 100 and the other is in 100 but hunting 25 as it is easier to see across and shoot across the canyon. There is a herd on both sides near each hunter and they both start shooting across the canyon towards each other. Sounds like fun times.

4. You are in Unit 100 with a 100 tag calling in a bull elk to shoot with your bow as rifle season is not open and someone in 100 with a rifle next to you shoots at an elk in Unit 25 where their tag is valid and rifle season is open (I know this doesn't exist in Wyoming with this scenario with these units). Feel okay about that situation?

 

[nripepi]

I've never seen a law that says you can't do this.

What if you have an off National Forest Cow Tag for a unit. Can you shoot that cow off the National Forest while you are standing in the National Forest?

 

[Bob D.]

What if you have an off National Forest Cow Tag for a unit. Can you shoot that cow off the National Forest while you are standing in the National Forest?

Yes

 

[elks96]

I have contacted a state game and fish department (not in WY but with similar rules) that told me it was illegal. You bet if I hunted a unit with this situation I would be asking. Can I shoot from a closed unit into an open unit?

But there is nothing in WY that is closed to hunting. Again reread my post. I can pretty much “hunt” every single unit all the time. There is nothing stopping anyone from hunting in any unit for coyotes. As a result the idea that a unit is closed does not hold water…

as long as the animal is in the unit for which the license is held, and the shooter violated no other laws in the take. Why would it be illegal?

 

[elks96]

What if you have an off National Forest Cow Tag for a unit. Can you shoot that cow off the National Forest while you are standing in the National Forest?

No it only matters where the animal is not where the shooter shoots from as long as the shooter can legally be there...

 

[Katoom]

But there is nothing in WY that is closed to hunting. Again reread my post. I can pretty much “hunt” every single unit all the time. There is nothing stopping anyone from hunting in any unit for coyotes. As a result the idea that a unit is closed does not hold water…

as long as the animal is in the unit for which the license is held, and the shooter violated no other laws in the take. Why would it be illegal?

You can hunt those other animals but can’t hunt the animals for which that licence (big game tag)is only good elsewhere. You and some
others keep equating your licence as just a carcass tag, and that you are just shooting and not hunting the listed species from outside of the listed unit. That is not how these things are managed. Look at it this way, they do this to manage hunters and where we can / cannot go while pursuing game. Its not just about a carcass. I think thats where people are hung up on. I won’t be mad if your interpretation is proven right by an official response, but forgive me for saying that some people seem to be getting mad at the ones who believe that this is likely illegal. Is it THAT common that people do this?

 

[Katoom]

Geez and from all the angst I am beginning to wonder if maybe people are wishing to pursue and drive game from a different /closed unit and then shooting at them as soon as they cross the border into the listed unit!

Looking for an explanation on this newly discovered and apparently contentious issue!

 

[Vanilla]

I've never seen a law that says you can't do this.

Then you’re not reading game laws.

That’s like saying a speed limit of 70 mph doesn’t prevent you from going 113 mph just because it doesn’t specifically say you can’t.

I’ll reiterate, this is illegal 100% of the time. If you don’t believe me, try it. But call and tell the CO before hand so he/she can watch you.

 

[Bookhead]

The Wyoming Game and Fish Department defines "take" as "hunt, pursue, catch, capture, shoot, fish, seine, trap, kill or possess, or attempt to hunt, pursue, catch, capture, shoot, fish, seine, trap, kill or possess". I don't know how this is hard to comprehend if you do any of this outside of the area your licence is valid for you can get a ticket. Particularly the word "shoot" theres 2 ends to every bullet path and both ends better be in your valid area

 

[nripepi]

Yes it matters where the animal is not where the shooter shoots from.

So can they shoot from Colorado or from Mars?

I am not trying to be cantankerous here. Had this exact issue in Colorado (I know it is not Wyoming and is not relative to the discussion) with a 190-inch buck and called their Game and Fish (multiple offices) and Game Wardens to try and get an answer and was told I could not take the shot. I tried to wade a river but couldn't make it in November...ended up renting a raft after hiking in and out 10 miles per day trying to get him.....would have been much easier to shoot right across the canyon from someone elses unit.