Rifle question

[UtahMountainMan]

Hey guys I got a question for those of you who know a lot more about rifle hunting and scopes than I do. 90% of my hunting is bowhunting.

I own a Weatherby Vanguard .30 06 that I bought new about 5 years ago. It came with a Bushnell 3x9 scope. Im sure the scope is fairly inexpensive. The rifle/scope package cost me less than $500.

So, my question is, if I go out and spend a few hundred bucks on either an upgraded new or an upgraded used scope will I see that big of a difference? What I am getting at, is lets say I want to start practicing shooting my rifle this summer out to about 400 yards, maybe 450 tops, will a new scope help a lot?

Or would getting trigger work done make a bigger difference?

I have shoot a few cow elk and a couple of bucks with my rifle, but my longest shot on an animal was about 125 yards. I have really only practiced out to about 200.

Any advice or feedback on the next steps for me to take to either 1)practice techniques, distances, etc., and 2) upgrades to the rifle itself including scope would be appreciated.

Thanks guys

 

[kingfish]

UPGRADE THE RIFLE AND SCOPE.

The weatherby is great but the caliber is not the best for shots over 300 yards. I bought a weatherby 300 mag vangaurd, changed out to a laminate thumbhole stock and put a Zeiss 3x9x50 Z-plex 600 on it. All for less then $1000. It shoots awesome. Just my opinion.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-11 AT 06:23PM (MST)[p]If you got that package deal for less than $500, it's obvious that the scope is not their top of the line stuff. You get what you pay for in glass and to shoot at distances I would have a higher power scope and one that will probably cost at least $300 and probably more like $500+. In my opinion, I would start with having the trigger worked down to a crisp pull weight of around 3# if you will be hunting with it. Strictly bench rest guns are normally set a lot lower than that and probably would be measured in ounces. One thing for sure, you're not going to be able to shoot good, tight groups with a lousy trigger, but you might get away with it staying with that scope if you can't afford a better one. I'm partial to Leupolds myself. I have a sporterized Army Springfield 30-06, for example, and with the military trigger the groups I was shooting were probably 2-2 1/2 MOA. I put a Timney trigger in it and with that trigger set down to around 3# the groups came down under 1 MOA. I'm not going to get into distances you should or shouldn't use the 30-06 for on game, but you do need to realize it's not one of those long distance calibers like the guys are using for elk.

 

[HunterHarry]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-11 AT 06:39PM (MST)[p]I have a Vanguard in .257 WBY.
The original trigger was very sloppy, really hard to have accuracy with that.
The VERY first thing I did was install a Timney trigger set at 2 lbs.
That was an easy install and about a hundred bucks.
Next I bought a second hand Leupold 4.5 -14 w/B&C reticle.
That was $450.
I put a Harris bipod & a Butler creek sling on it and am really happy with it's overall performance.
The rifle shoots fantasic.
One of the most accurate I own.
Those Vanguards may be fairly inexpensive, but they really shoot.
With a few easy tweaks you should really be able improve it's performance.

 

[bucklover]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-11 AT 06:45PM (MST)[p]I guess it depends on the style of hunting you are planning. There are some of us that, for whatever reason, have a rifle capable of long range shooting. It's fun to shoot decent groups at long ranges. However, if you are used to bow hunting, my advise would be to incorporate your bow hunting skills into hunting with your rifle. Take pride in your ability to close the distance. Challenge yourself to get close and do your best to make clean one shot kills. I've made long shots, but I always question if it would have been better to try to get closer. For me, the main reason I have taken longer shots is due to the fear of some other hunter screwing things up as I attempt to get closer, and ruining my chances at killing that big buck or big bull. When situations are right I much prefer moving closer, just for the challenge. Don't get caught up in this long range shooting thing, at least for a while, unless that is your true objective. It looks good on TV, but there are a lot of bad points that aren't being talked about a lot. If you want to get really good at long range shooting, it's going to take a lot more than just buying a new scope.

 

[gb22]

I've got several rifles including the best that Weatherby makes. I've got Swarovski, Leupold and Zeiss optics. They shoot wonderfully.

The Vanguard is VERY accurate....to the distances you specified. My son's $199 Bushnell scope "sees LATE into the evening" and shoots accurately. A 30.06 isn't going to POUND the scope to oblivion and you're not going to get headaches from the hours behind the glass in low light (as you would with binos or spotters).

No offense meant, but the set up you now have will probably shoot as well as you (98% of we experts, too) ever will.


Within the shadows, go quietly.

 

[txhunter58]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-11 AT 07:15PM (MST)[p]You have plenty of gun out to 400 yards, but in 40 years of hunting (including out west elk and deer hunts), I have only shot over 300 yards once.

I doubt that you got even a $199 scope on your set up. More like $100, so I think you definately need a new scope. But don't forget the rings/base. They are as important as the scope. I like the kind that screws into the base and the rings then sit down in and turn 90 to "lock" them in place. The clamp on type rings (Weaver style) just don't seem rigid enough.

Which is more important: trigger or scope/rings? I would have to say the scope/rings would be my first priority. Then if it needs a trigger job that would be next.

You will get a lot of opinions, but I have always used Leupold VX-II scopes and they have never failed me. In the neighborhood of $250-300 will get you one. My brother dropped one off a horse on a mountain and bent it. He sent it in to Leupold for "repair" and they sent him a new scope.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[HorseCreek]

See the "you decide" post below...Give Hunterx a call he can help ya with that long range stuff. He might even video it for ya!


Traditional >>>------->

 

[desertdeer]

i would do the trigger first. especially on a weatherby. an 06 will kill anything you want to out to 400 yards but if you anticipate that kind of shot i would get a new scope. i have a 4-12x40 vortex on my 06 with leupold dual dovetails. i love to practice shooting long range and have a good setup for it but my longest shot to date has been 265 yards. before that shot my longest was 155 with a muzzleloader. long range shooting is a fun way to enjoy shooting and get good practice year round.

 

[never_satisfied]

The Weatherby Vanguard is a terefice rifle.
The 30.06 is NOT my choice of caliber but it will do just fine out to 500+ yards
Now let me stress the point here.The caliber will do just fine the shooter needs to do his part

Most guys will talk out there azz and say its not good enough to take game out to 500 yards.
So to give you a example
A 30.06 180 GR.AccuBond is traveling at 1931 FPS @ 500 yards
A 300 Winchester Magnum with the same bullet is traveling 2095 FPS @ 500 yards
Its my opinion a .30 caliber AccuBond bullet will kill a elk with 1500 FPS
So with that being said your gun will do just fine

A trigger job will help almost all refiles so I think you cant go wrong there

The one thing that I believe will help you the most is a new scope.The problem your going to have is not the manufacturer of your scope but rather the power.A 3x9 wont give you the magnification you will need to take long shots.
I would recommend something like a 4-14x40 or bigger

I personally use the Nikon buckmaster 6-18x40 with the BDC reticle.The BDC reticle take a lot of the guess work out of your longer shots.And Nikon has a great warranty if something goes wrong

Hope this helps

 

[REDDOG]

The scope and mounts are the weak link in any rifle.get a good scope, mounts MOUNTED PROPERLY, and a trigger tweak, and maybe dab bed the lug, then feed it good ammo.

--------------------------------------

If rifle hunting was gay swbuckmaster would do it...

 

[UtahMountainMan]

Wow, I really appreciate the feedback. Its been WAY more helpful in such a short period of time than I thought.

Being a bowhunter, I am not really looking to become a long range shooter.

In fact, the only reason I want to feel comfortable shooting out to 400 yards is due to the fact that I drew a LE bull elk tag about 4 years ago. I hunted hard the whole time and was on a REALLY nice bull but he was pushing his cows and I could never get within 350 yards. I had my rifle up on him a couple of times but the combination of the distance plus only having a power of 9 on my scope and being out of breath from hiking after him for 6 miles I never pulled the trigger. Also, I had never even taken a single practice shot at 350 yards. (Looking back, it was REALLY stupid of me to accept that LE tag without having the proper equipment. I had a 10 percent chance of drawing the tag and I did).

I just want to make sure that I do what I can to make sure I am prepared to make the best, ethical shot. The thought of shooting something at 800 yards doesnt excite me as maybe it does others. What excites me is seeing the buck at 800 yards and then trying to sneak within 50.

So it sounds like my Weatherby Vanguard will be the rifle I will build around. I am going to start looking into a better scope/rings mount and some trigger work.

Any recommendations on guys or places that could work on the trigger for me? I dont really know where to get that done.

I live in Pleasant Grove, 30 minutes south of SLC.

Again, thanks for the information, I would love to keep getting opinions and feedback.

 

[Cahunter805]

Buy a timney trigger and install it yourself. If you don't feel confident with that buy the trigger and have a gunsmith install it. Also a good used or new leupold would do you fine. Not sure what bases and rings came with it but a set of leupold mounts wouldn't be a bad idea. Get out and practice practice practice. If you don't reload ammo I would purchase a few boxes of different ammo and bullets and see what the rifle likes best.

 

[beavis14]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-11 AT 07:49AM (MST)[p]you have the makings of a fine hunting rifle.. get a trigger job or a aftermarket trigger. you can't shoot good groups with a 6 pound trigger regardless of what you do. second sell the bushnell for a set of dual dovetail rings and mounts. buy a vx2 leopold. 3x 9 with a STANDARD RETICAL ! for many decades animals have been taken cleanly out to 400 yards with a 30-06 with standard reticals and non premium bullets. maybe the game has evolved ? nah.. lots of fad chasing ! your rig will work well for anything, anywhere in the lower 48 out to 350-400 yards which is a long way. for around 350-400 bucks you can make your rile sweet. don't forget about the pawn shops for scopes. i picked up a nikon monarch a couple weeks ago for 90 bucks ! it;s scratched but it works fine ! you dont need a 1500 $ rifle too kill game. did our grandfathers ?

not to hijack your post but....... my dad and i were talking yesterday about how much lost game, wounded game is found now compared to twenty years ago. back then it was rare to find and animal with it's legs blown off ect.. thank goodness for the new technology huh????

 

[Zeke]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-11 AT 09:21AM (MST)[p]I agree with all the trigger info. Do this first.

Then put a new scope on it if you will be punchin' paper past 400 yds. The Bushnell that came with your pkg is prob a lower end scope. Time to get serious and upgrade.

You can shoot pretty easily out to 400 with "hold over" and a standard scope. If you're looking to accurately shoot longer ranges you'll want a scope with turrets or strata lines like Swarovski TDS or Biggame or Leupold BC.

Remember, distance is more tricky than dial, aim, shoot. Anyone can dope or dial holdover. It's the wind where you'll find the problems.

Good luck and have fun "PG man".

Zeke (Lehi man)

edit..PS. Have you ever shot at the Price rifle range? It's a great place to test your rig out to 1000 yards. (You can shoot from 100 yds out to 1000.

 

[trophyhunter]

I would consider a scope and maybe a trigger job as others have indicated. I am not familiar with a WBY Vangard trigger pull. When you upgrade scopes in $$$ you get better optics, clarity as well as a scope that gathers much more light in low light conditions. That Leupold VXII mentioned in 4X14 is a great scope and not as expensive as others. That is what we use on our 300WBY's. We prefer the bigger rifles for what you are trying to accomplish but you can make your setup work.

Thing is that /06 will do the job as stated but you are really pushing it wanting to try shots out past 350 yds max. That's because we are now bringing in and talking archery ethics into the mix. We hunt like you mostly archery these days. Lots of variables to consider when hunting. Your /06 will do the job but you need to hit the game with a well placed shot in the kill zone or you take a big chance of just wounding the game. Your shooting a rifle and round 180gr. that will be slow at 400yds as well as have significant drop at long ranges. Many bad things can happen if your game doesn't allow you the perfect shot. The game decides to move, wind, etc. Everything needs to be perfect to pull the trigger when your trying to make that kill shot at those long ranges with that setup. If we can kill an elk with our broadheads with a well placed shot. Then yes you have plenty of rifle to do the same job. I know old timers that have killed plenty of elk with a .243 but there not trying to shoot 400yds. If they can kill them with a .243 or even .270 130gr. bullet weight. Some things to consider in upgrading the effeciency of your setup just like we do with are arrows. Maybe find the best bullet on the market, work up a great load and consider dropping down in bullet weight to make your setup a little faster and flatter shooting. Then sight that rifle in for those longer ranges of 400yds to take some of the guessing out of where to hold on your game. You would just need to remember to hold low on closer shots.

Good Luck

)))).......>

 

[justr_86]

Look into vortex scopes. I have the viper 3.5-10x50 and love it! Bought it last september on a clearance for $250 from cameraland. They always have pretty good sales, just watch for what you want if your not in a hurry you can get some good deals. If you get a 50mm objective you have to get new higher rings for it to clear. Good luck whatever direction you decide to go.

 

[kingfish]

Trophyhunter, Great advice.

I also bought my Zeiss from cameraland and only paid $475 for a $650 plus scope.

All the advise given here is great. Thanks guys I learn a lot from people on this site..

HH, Timney on the way!!!

 

[elk_horn]

After upgrading the Optics the first thing I would do is the trigger that will help you a bunch!

 

[coolspringoutfitters]

Optics are more important than the gun you shoot... If you can't see it, you can't shoot it... Some scopes don't hold their zero as well as others. Spend more on the optics than the gun... You'll be happy you did...

CSO

It's all about the good times...

 

[travishunter3006]

Don't let anyone try to feed you lines about the 30-06 shooting poorly past 300 yards. With the right bullet/scope combo you will be dead nuts. I shot a cow elk this year at 350 yards with the xp3 180 grain from my EDDYSTONE 1917 (made in 1918) and of which i hae topped with a bushnell scope I got from sportsman's warehouse that cost me about 130 bucks. I Killed my first deer at 300 yards with this gun, my second at 10 yards, my 3rd running at 250 yards (double lung) the next was a doe at 150 yards, a couple with my bow and this cow elk with my 06. That bullet wentthrough her front shoulder quartering to me and through her lung, liver and exited out her last rib.

The .30 06 is an awesome gun. just because it doesn't have "mag" stamped on it or "super awesome blow up an entire horse" written into the stock many people underestimate it. There are guns that out perform it, but i don't see people paking around any 20mm artilery guns just cuz they are "better" than the trusty time proven odd six!

 

[Zeke]

Good point!

While some other cartridges will "out perform" the ole 06 it's still the one by which all others are judged.

With the right bullet it's deadly at all reasonable ranges for almost every big game animal on the planet.

(I don't own one but that doesnt make them second-rate)

Best, Zeke

 

[cowboy57]

you can't go wrong with a 06,i have shot mine all my life.i have 4 different scopes on it. each one better than the last.just shoot the rifle again and again and again.know the gun like the back side of your hand.i have killed out to 565yards with mine.but i wouldn't do again.like they said above it's not a magnum but it's a dam good weapon.

 

[FIREHAWK]

Congrats on the ideal all around .30 caliber 06'. This rifle with todays superior bullets, consistant burning powder and modest recoil makes this an even better choice today. If you are gonna be making longer shots I would suggest 4.5-14x or 4-16x scope. I own Burris but there are many fine choices. Since you are primarily a bow hunter you already have numerous handy tricks and skills. I would get a good scope base and rings and either have a gunsmith or friend use a wheeler scope ring leveling bar set up your more expensive scope and align everything perfectly. It has opposing leveling bars and has a lapping compound for a 1-piece lapping bar for a nice fit to the scope/rings. This is important no matter what glass you put on it. If it is not right you will preload the scope tube and may set yourself up for innacuracy or premature scope failure down the road. I have used a 1-piece or 2-piece base depending on how good the manufacturer leveled the top of the barrel. my Rem 700 I had to use a 2-pc. base and shim one end of the base to level my set-up. ++ trigger job. practice the ranges you expect to shoot.

 

[hank4elk]

That is a great rifle you have,all you'll ever need really.I have a Rem 700 30-06 that I've had for 30 yrs.I finally put a Timney trigger on it and put it on a Hogue full-bed stock. Leupold single base with a 3x9x50 Leupold Rifleman scope. I have hit gongs out to 500yrds and have it sighted zero at 200 yrds. Dropped elk at 275 yrds and deer 350+. I still like to get within 100 yrds if possible,to me that is hunting. As stated with todays ammo,even factory,it has plenty of punch and very economical to shoot. Shoot it a bunch to get used to it and tweek it a little and your set!! Good Luck and Good Hunting!

 

[delmag1942]

Good to see some posts finally defending the '06. It will take them down well past 350 yards. Amazing how the .308 is a "sniper" caliber, but the "no less ballistically" '06 is only for close in stuff?

As a "new" rifleman guarantee get a good scope first! Get up into the teens for magnification on the topend. I shot a antelope a few years back (had to) on 14x and it was a pretty small spot in the scope. Get the multiple reticles as well. You do not have to use them, but they work and are handy.

Do not skimp on the rings/bases. And Leupold would be skimping IMO. Go with a good set of Talleys or Warnes, you will not be disappointed!

Lastly do the trigger. If you run out of time/money you can get used to a lesser trigger, especially as a "new" rifle hunter.

 

[delmag1942]

forgot "at 506 yards"