Results tomorrow?

BuzzH said:
For the first time in a long while, I hope I don't draw anything tomorrow. Found out a few hours ago I drew a Montana ram permit, don't want to crowd the season too much.
Click to expand...
Must be all that clean living paying off! Like they say: you can't win if you don't play!

Nice work!
 
BuzzH said:
For the first time in a long while, I hope I don't draw anything tomorrow. Found out a few hours ago I drew a Montana ram permit, don't want to crowd the season too much.
Click to expand...
Congrats. Did you draw one of the units with potential for a 190+ ram? That would be something to get really excited about.

HT
 
BuzzH said:
Nothing in Wyoming, a relief really. Only have to sweat out NV, UT, and AZ but those odds are all so bad shouldn't be an issue.
Click to expand...
Congrats on your Montana sheep tag. Drew my Wyoming sheep tag last year and my 16yr old daughter pulled a random bull moose tag too which was unexpected. Sure am glad my employer was flexible, 9 days on the moose and 22 days on the sheep but we filled those OIL tags. Certainly wish we could have spent even more time on both species and it is very challenging when those big tags are burning holes in pockets.
 
Good luck to all and Congrats on the Ram tag! I drew a 24-1 Moose tag and am looking forward to a fun hunt. I had dreamed of a Unit 34 tag for years but decided I was done waiting a couple years ago so switched to 26 but then the tag cuts there so this year I switched again and it paid off. I have talked a few times with Gary Fralick about the Unit and would love to talk with anyone who has knowledge of it as well. 23 points and 61 years old so definitely a once in a lifetime.
 
63Badger said:
Good luck to all and Congrats on the Ram tag! I drew a 24-1 Moose tag and am looking forward to a fun hunt. I had dreamed of a Unit 34 tag for years but decided I was done waiting a couple years ago so switched to 26 but then the tag cuts there so this year I switched again and it paid off. I have talked a few times with Gary Fralick about the Unit and would love to talk with anyone who has knowledge of it as well. 23 points and 61 years old so definitely a once in a lifetime.
Click to expand...
I've hunted 24 twice.
 
63Badger said:
Good luck to all and Congrats on the Ram tag! I drew a 24-1 Moose tag and am looking forward to a fun hunt. I had dreamed of a Unit 34 tag for years but decided I was done waiting a couple years ago so switched to 26 but then the tag cuts there so this year I switched again and it paid off. I have talked a few times with Gary Fralick about the Unit and would love to talk with anyone who has knowledge of it as well. 23 points and 61 years old so definitely a once in a lifetime.
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Good tag in a target rich environment. Happy to share what I know about moose in the area.
 
Seems strange to use so many points for a 3/4 curl or less when they could have had an “any ram” in some units for the same points?
 
A lot of people applying for nothing.

Screenshot 2024-05-09 191403.png
 
Just realized they were put into the random automatically when not drawn in the preference draw.
 
LIK2HNT said:
I thought the same but just realized they were put into the random automatically when not drawn in the preference draw.
Click to expand...
99.999% of those people had zero chance in the preference point draw. Being automatically placed in the random doesn't give them anything. Like I said, a lot of people applying for nothing.
 
elkantlers said:
99.999% of those people had zero chance in the preference point draw. Being automatically placed in the random doesn't give them anything. Like I said, a lot of people applying for nothing.
Click to expand...
I get your point but it is no where near 99.999%. Many thought there would be a random in 5 but it didn't happen (yes Buzz, I know it was stated in advance). The issue is many threw away significant cash in credit card fees for zero chance.
 
nripepi said:
I get your point but it is no where near 99.999%. Many thought there would be a random in 5 but it didn't happen (yes Buzz, I know it was stated in advance). The issue is many threw away significant cash in credit card fees for zero chance.
Click to expand...
I'm no mathematician, but if my numbers are correct 98.6% wasted their money. It's not 99.99%, but you can see it from there.
 
BuzzH said:
Not mocking anyone, it's the hunters responsibility to read, research, and comprehend.
Click to expand...
Calling someone stupid like you did is kind of mocking them, isn't it? And you drew a sheep tag as well! Maybe drawing a sheep tag does something crazy to people where they want to put everyone else down that also tried to draw a sheep tag. Who knows.
 
nripepi said:
Calling someone stupid like you did is kind of mocking them, isn't it? And you drew a sheep tag as well! Maybe drawing a sheep tag does something crazy to people where they want to put everyone else down that also tried to draw a sheep tag. Who knows.
Click to expand...
You know the last time I applied for a sheep tag where my application was dead?

Never.
 
nripepi said:
Think you might be in a little better mood after drawing a sheep tag! Probably my sheep tag :)
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I'm in a good mood actually. How about check the things you are saying? If people don't understand the system, who's fault is that? Since 90/10 MSGB the G&F has been trying to change the system to help NR with BP so everyone has a chance. High point PP holders are fighting that tooth and nail. Is it the best way? I don't think so. I would rather see pp 50/50. That's my opinion anyway.
 
jm77 said:
I'm in a good mood actually. How about check the things you are saying? If people don't understand the system, who's fault is that? Since 90/10 MSGB the G&F has been trying to change the system to help NR with BP so everyone has a chance. High point PP holders are fighting that tooth and nail. Is it the best way? I don't think so. I would rather see pp 50/50. That's my opinion anyway.
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What things am I saying? I sure hope you are in a good mood, you drew a sheep tag!
 
BuzzH said:
Yes there was, it was taken by the super raffle or trifecta winner.

Like I said, stupid hurts when you don't understand the rules.
Click to expand...
Please stop. Why is everyone except you stupid in this world? Have you ever ever done anything stupid before?
 
nripepi said:
Please stop. Why is everyone except you stupid in this world? Have you ever ever done anything stupid before?
Click to expand...
I try to avoid it by informing myself, talking to the right people, and listening.

You might want to try something similar, keeps you from being a victim.
 
I would agree that moose and sheep for NR has become 100% PP with only those having the most points having any chance. But since the Task Force recommended 90/10 for the big 5, the G&F has recognized this and has been trying to change it. Give them credit for that and blame all those who don't understand point systems, because they have been throwing wrenches in any new plans. Say "points" and many go bzerk and oppose, not even considering what the change is about and how it works.

The constant complaining on here does no good. Attention to this issue should be focused on the TRW Committee and the G&F Dept and Commission. Blow off all the steam you want on here and you will get absolutely nothing for your effort except another thread that Founder can close commenting on.
 
What's stupid is donating WY money to play a game you can't win after they moved the goal post on you. unless you're in the very top end of the point pool you're screwed, your odds would be better of winning the lottery and buying a governors tag.

Of course, you could stay in the game and see what rule changes come next. but I wouldn't count on it being to your advantage.
 
jm77 said:
I would agree that moose and sheep for NR has become 100% PP with only those having the most points having any chance. But since the Task Force recommended 90/10 for the big 5, the G&F has recognized this and has been trying to change it. Give them credit for that and blame all those who don't understand point systems, because they have been throwing wrenches in any new plans. Say "points" and many go bzerk and oppose, not even considering what the change is about and how it works.

The constant complaining on here does no good. Attention to this issue should be focused on the TRW Committee and the G&F Dept and Commission. Blow off all the steam you want on here and you will get absolutely nothing for your effort except another thread that Founder can close commenting on.
Click to expand...
Does anyone know the status of converting Preference to Bonus for Moose, Sheep & Goat? Last thing I heard was in 2022 that the Task group recommended converting to bonus and squaring them. Recommendation was implementation in 2027, this had to be done by the legislature.
 
5yearcoueshunter said:
Does anyone know the status of converting Preference to Bonus for Moose, Sheep & Goat? Last thing I heard was in 2022 that the Task group recommended converting to bonus and squaring them. Recommendation was implementation in 2027, this had to be done by the legislature.
Click to expand...
Won't make any difference if there are no NR tags. Having bonus points to draw 0 available tags is still 0 available tags.
 
I would like to see WY issue random NR tags if there are a minimum number going to the top point holders. I'm not sure what that number is, but If I was a NR, I wouldn't spend another cent on a point if I didn't already have a bunch. I prefer a bonus over a preference points system. There has to be some kind of a compromise or there isn't any incentive buying points for those just getting started.
 
BuzzH said:
I try to avoid it by informing myself, talking to the right people, and listening.

You might want to try something similar, keeps you from being a victim.
Click to expand...
How am I stupid? You think I don't inform myself, talk to the right people and listen?
 
grosventrehunter said:
I would like to see WY issue random NR tags if there are a minimum number going to the top point holders. I'm not sure what that number is, but If I was a NR, I wouldn't spend another cent on a point if I didn't already have a bunch. I prefer a bonus over a preference points system. There has to be some kind of a compromise or there isn't any incentive buying points for those just getting started.
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There may not be an incentive for really anyone, but there are more people buying them now than ever. Look at how many people are buying their first point - 2,268 who should know they will never draw a moose tag - not even a cow tag - spending $150 annually.

A total of 12,151 non-residents have moose points in Wyoming. Not all are likely still buying points, but none-the-less Wyoming does not really need to change anything to get more people to buy more points.

I will say again - this conversation is silly because there are so few tags the method they use to allocate them is hardly worth discussing.

The kindest thing they could do is eliminate all non-resident moose tags and at least stop the bleeding for these fools.

GO TO ALASKA NOW - THAT MAY NOT ALWAYS BE AN OPTION.

 
jm77 said:
You are obviously one of those who is clueless on this issue. I hate to say that, but why would you say there are no tags? Ten percent of the tags are NR.

You believe him?
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lol I was attempting sarcasm by friend duh, 0 tags means 0 tags no matter what draw system you have. Right now NR get 10% which for Moose was around 40 tags this year. So if moved to bonus point system, all NR applicants would have a chance at those 40 tags.
 
Buzz ~~ if your Mont Sheep tag is in unit 482, I can share intel with ya from my hunt.



Robb
 
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jm77 said:
The constant complaining on here does no good. Attention to this issue should be focused on the TRW Committee and the G&F Dept and Commission. ..
Click to expand...

I disagree. Sure, one should ALSO be active directly with your legislative committee (like TRW) and your state G&F. But the WY legislature has been clear they do NOT want to get emails from non-residents and only want to hear from their Wyoming "Friends" (=residents/voters).

In March, 2024, a game agency of a western state used a screenshot from a Monster Muley's thread in a presentation to their commission. It was a very cleverly made point on a very nuanced issue. That is way more powerful than if that poster had made that point to that commission himself.

Guerilla warfare works. Often, people worry more about what you are saying behind their backs than what you are saying to their face.
 
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Crampy said:
I disagree. Sure, one should ALSO be active directly with your legislative committee (like TRW) and your state G&F. But the WY legislature has been clear they do NOT want to get emails from non-residents and only want to hear from their Wyoming "Friends" (=residents/voters).

In March, 2024, a game agency of a western state used a screenshot from a Monster Muley's thread in a presentation to their commission. It was a very cleverly made point on a very nuanced issue. That is way more powerful than if that poster had made that point to that commission himself.

Guerilla warfare works. Often, people worry more about what you are saying behind their backs than what you are saying to their face.
Click to expand...
Disagree all you want, but the fact remains that PP still exist for M&S without change because NRs came to Wyoming and testified in person against going to a bonus point system. I know because I was there.
 
Wrong, BP-squared failed in the legislature because Buzz killed it. Not because of NR testimony.

I know because Buzz already took credit for that. Many times. Incessantly.

You can't argue it both ways.
 
Crampy said:
Wrong, BP-squared failed in the legislature because Buzz killed it. Not because of NR testimony.

I know because Buzz already took credit for that. Many times. Incessantly.

You can't argue it both ways.
Click to expand...
Were you there?

Didn't think so.

By the way, you got that lawsuit filed yet?

WOGA opposed the squared bonus points bullchit too.

Will be nice when the drawings are over for the year so crampy can crawl back under the victim bridge for the rest of the year.
 
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Crampy said:
Wrong, BP-squared failed in the legislature because Buzz killed it. Not because of NR testimony.

I know because Buzz already took credit for that. Many times. Incessantly.

You can't argue it both ways.
Click to expand...
You can't have it anyway. You just hide in the closet. Fact is you are just in the shadows and aren't relevant at all.

Except to cause trouble...
 
grosventrehunter said:
I would like to see WY issue random NR tags if there are a minimum number going to the top point holders. I'm not sure what that number is, but If I was a NR, I wouldn't spend another cent on a point if I didn't already have a bunch. I prefer a bonus over a preference points system. There has to be some kind of a compromise or there isn't any incentive buying points for those just getting started.
Click to expand...
Well stated, but it doesn’t look like the word has got out yet. Last year over 2100 nonresidents bought their first point, with the current system there really is no chance that these will ever be used to even help their odds at a sheep tag.

Also there was a total of 12,157 nonresident points sold last year, at $150 each that comes out to over $1,800,000, now if you divide that by the 16 nr tags(if I looked at correctly) that comes out to about $114,000 per sheep tag, and that’s not even counting any of the app fees or the actual cost of the tags. I guess if people are lined up to throw there money away let them do it. Good for Wyoming I suppose.

Congrats to those who got tags,

Mark,

IMG_2668.png
 
In the 2024 bighorn sheep draw, 3 residents and 1 non-resident with the maximum of 29 preference points applied for and drew permits, leaving 5 residents and 2 non-residents to carry over to the 2025 draw.

With all the chatter about a potential change to a bonus-point or fully random draw, one would think that more of the high point holders would be cashing in their points.

How many years will it take before the last maximum-point holder, in the game since the commencement of the preference point program in 1995, finally departs the scene?

HT
 
That’s why I’m trying hard to cash my highest point totals now. But can’t do them all one year. Rationing one per year. Maybe that’s why those two were stuck. Dumping 27 Utah this year before those get watered down.
 
Some of you might be interested in the burn-off of max-point holders in the bighorn draw since 1995:

Year PP R NR

1995 0 6546 1421
1996 1 5029 1086
1997 2 4062 848
1998 3 3577 741
1999 4 2944 632
2000 5 2527 536
2001 6 2240 478
2002 7 1953 414
2003 8 1667 338
2004 9 1382 286
2005 10 1132 236
2006 11 931 191
2007 12 742 139
2008 13 554 93
2009 14 411 55
2010 15 306 45
2011 16 218 32
2012 17 148 27
2013 18 116 22
2014 19 103 16
2015 20 84 16
2016 21 68 13
2017 22 51 11
2018 23 41 10
2019 24 29 7
2020 25 21 7
2021 26 15 5
2022 27 13 4
2023 28 10 3
2024 29 8 3
2025 30 5 2

In 1995, Wyoming issued 288 bighorn sheep permits (Type 1), including 216 to residents and 72 to non-residents.

In 2024, Wyoming issued 178 bighorn sheep permits (Type 1),
including 162 to residents and 16 to non-residents.

The above represents a 38% decrease in total permits over the past thirty years, with a 25% decrease for residents and a 78% decrease for non-residents. This is a disappointing trend, given the time, money, research and other efforts (a good portion of which has been contributed by non-residents), invested in the bighorn sheep program in Wyoming.

HT
 
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HornedToad said:
Some of you might be interested in the burn-off of max-point holders in the bighorn draw since 1995:

Year PP R NR

1995 0 6546 1421
1996 1 5029 1086
1997 2 4062 848
1998 3 3577 741
1999 4 2944 632
2000 5 2527 536
2001 6 2240 478
2002 7 1953 414
2003 8 1667 338
2004 9 1382 286
2005 10 1132 236
2006 11 931 191
2007 12 742 139
2008 13 554 93
2009 14 411 55
2010 15 306 45
2011 16 218 32
2012 17 148 27
2013 18 116 22
2014 19 103 16
2015 20 84 16
2016 21 68 13
2017 22 51 11
2018 23 41 10
2019 24 29 7
2020 25 21 7
2021 26 15 5
2022 27 13 4
2023 28 10 3
2024 29 8 3
2025 30 5 2

In 1995, Wyoming issued 288 bighorn sheep permits (Type 1), including 216 to residents and 72 to non-residents.

In 2024, Wyoming issued 178 bighorn sheep permits (Type 1),
including 162 to residents and 16 to non-residents.

The above represents a 38% decrease in total permits over the past thirty years, with a 25% decrease for residents and a 78% decrease for non-residents. This is a disappointing trend, given all the time, money, research and other efforts (a good portion of which has been contributed by non-residents), invested in the bighorn sheep program in Wyoming.

HT
Click to expand...
I'm glad Wyoming finally decided to go 90/10. Might not be a bad idea to see 90/5/5. Five perfect for max point holders and five percent random.
 
Check those moose populations and permits in a simliar time frame. It's even more dismal than sheep.

In 2001, a total of 1,379 hunters harvested 806 bulls, 337 cows, and 72 calves. Compare that to 2023 where 314 active hunters took 251 bulls, 42 cows and 2 calves.
 
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