Utah LE is ~49.999% preference, not bonus. Utah LE mistakenly uses the term bonus, but it operates as preference. And that is why Utah LE is one of the worst designs for NR hunters - not the best. The completely saturated preference side of the UTAH LE system is completely broken for NRs. I would hope that WY is studying the Utah mistake and will avoid it, but it sounds like they might replicate the preference error.If a point system is required, I think Utah's system is the best overall: 50/50 Bonus point/Random
Utah LE is ~49.999% preference, not bonus. Utah LE mistakenly uses the term bonus, but it operates as preference. And that is why Utah LE is one of the worst designs for NR hunters - not the best. The completely saturated preference side of the UTAH LE system is completely broken for NRs. I would hope that WY is studying the Utah mistake and will avoid it, but it sounds like they might replicate the preference error.
WrongUtah LE is ~49.999% preference, not bonus. Utah LE mistakenly uses the term bonus, but it operates as preference. And that is why Utah LE is one of the worst designs for NR hunters - not the best. The completely saturated preference side of the UTAH LE system is completely broken for NRs. I would hope that WY is studying the Utah mistake and will avoid it, but it sounds like they might replicate the preference error.
100% agree!!There's a fundamental difference when having multiple bonus points vs multiple preference points. Both UT and AZ have it right, using bonus points for both sides of the draw. Whether the Bonus side is 50% like UT or 20% like AZ is up to the state and how much preference they choose to give to the max point guys. The more points needed to draw would favor a 50/50 split to get those high point guys out of the pools in my opinion.
The 75/25 split used by WY and OR also works but even there I'd prefer using bonus points for slightly better odds of getting low random numbers based on the number of points.
The straight preference system in CO is a non starter in my book.
Then 99% of people will never draw a tag and they will die with a pile of points and those who actually draw a tag will end up too old to even access the country.What if we just keep it the same as it is now?
But that will be the situation no matter how the draw system is set up. You can't change the fact that the demand greatly exceeds the supply.Then 99% of people will never draw a tag and they will die with a pile of points and those who actually draw a tag will end up too old to even access the country.
Why not include the female (doe/cow) in the same draw with bucks and bulls? There is already point creep in the cow elk draw, so why not just put these in with the bull elk draw? Is a cow hunt really any different than a spike bull hunt? I think most states lump male and female in the same draw. Montana has a separate draw for doe and cow, but Montana is in a little different situation than most other states.I am all about pure prefrence points. Having said that, I feel that you should have to use them for ANY male species tag you draw.
If you draw a tag, you go to the back of the line.
In a system that operates like that (for deer, bear, Pronghorn, elk) it's pretty dang fair to everyone involved.
Why not include the female (doe/cow) in the same draw with bucks and bulls? There is already point creep in the cow elk draw, so why not just put these in with the bull elk draw? Is a cow hunt really any different than a spike bull hunt? I think most states lump male and female in the same draw. Montana has a separate draw for doe and cow, but Montana is in a little different situation than most other states.
That’s why I’m trying to keep in the best shape I can. Pretty cool when the old dudes whack a big old ram.Then 99% of people will never draw a tag and they will die with a pile of points and those who actually draw a tag will end up too old to even access the country.
HAHA. Sure hope you don't have a little final destination action. But seriously why would we want to save the best hunts in some of the hardest and coolest country for the old guys. If anything shouldn't we try the opposite? Maybe for these super hard tags in hard lands we should give the drawing advantage to the younger hunters?That’s why I’m trying to keep in the best shape I can. Pretty cool when the old dudes whack a big old ram.
We all understand why you would want that but at the same time one would ask why did you buy points for the past 10 years when they couldn't help you unless they changed the system? It was easy to calculate how long it would take to draw back then.I’m 68 with 20 NR sheep preference points. There’s more than 1000 hunters with 20 or more. With the current 90/10 split ratio, I’m not ever going to draw on PP’s. I’d like at least a chance at a tag. I’d vote for a 50/50 split on bonus and preference.
Exactly!What if you make it 50/50 preference/random for residents and 50/50 preference/bonus for non-residents so you sell more expensive points to non-residents because of the bonus option.
Not if you split the total quota instead of splitting by area.When there are small numbers of tags, a 50% split takes multiples of two, 75:25 takes multiples of 4. Both ratios often end up being 100% one way or the other.
Haha. I can think of several ways the game and fish could make up the $$$ and not be a big deal. Points are easy but do we really want any state agency making $$$$ for selling absolutely nothing? Such a system goes against what most in WY stand for…Whatever the solution is, I can garuentee the WGFD is not going to sell less points. A significant portion of thier overall budget comes from selling bonus points, which is simply too much $ to be made up somewhere else. So any thought/proposal that would result in fewer points sold each year can be taken off the table.
Right at the edge? You're over the edge and playing with fire.At 25 NR points I hope they leave it as it is for a few more years. I am right at the edge of drawing. Another change will put me back again, or completely out of the picture.
I think putting the old guys on the hunts saves the animals as they cannot access the country like the young guys therefore increasing the overall age class. Preserving the animals so there are more for the next generationHAHA. Sure hope you don't have a little final destination action. But seriously why would we want to save the best hunts in some of the hardest and coolest country for the old guys. If anything shouldn't we try the opposite? Maybe for these super hard tags in hard lands we should give the drawing advantage to the younger hunters?
Not sure where you got your info.Right at the edge? You're over the edge and playing with fire.
Several NRs drew ram tags with 23 points in 2024. Everyone at 25 points could have had several different units (all except two units). And you are passing on those units and hoping the WY legislature retains some preference component to their system? If they go 100% BP-squared, you might not ever draw.
I feel badly for the folks who never had a chance. But you've had chances, and are just choosing to pass on the low & mid level ram units.
Hope. I’ve been hoping for a miracle. If they go to a squared bonus point system, I’m very much in the game. I plan to continue to apply and or purchase a point each year until I draw. And if I’m too old when it happens, I’ll proudly donate the tag to a veteran. And if it never happens, the State of Wyoming wins. And I’m fine with that. The hope of killing a Wyoming Bighorn ram keeps me young. I go to the gym and workout with a trainer at least 5 days a week to avoid slipping into becoming a couch potato. That hope is helping me “keep the old man out” and it’s worth the price of admission.We all understand why you would want that but at the same time one would ask why did you buy points for the past 10 years when they couldn't help you unless they changed the system? It was easy to calculate how long it would take to draw back then.
That's awesome! I hope you draw a random tag soon!!Hope. I’ve been hoping for a miracle. If they go to a squared bonus point system, I’m very much in the game. I plan to continue to apply and or purchase a point each year until I draw. And if I’m too old when it happens, I’ll proudly donate the tag to a veteran. And if it never happens, the State of Wyoming wins. And I’m fine with that. The hope of killing a Wyoming Bighorn ram keeps me young. I go to the gym and workout with a trainer at least 5 days a week to avoid slipping into becoming a couch potato. That hope is helping me “keep the old man out” and it’s worth the price of admission.
I’m also hoping Josh Martoglio can tie me and a walker on a horse and get me up one of those area 5 mountains. And I bet he can.
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.