OTC archery now (2025) for Residents!

[BeanMan]

The Commission voted yesterday to make Archery OTC for residents only starting in 2025! NR archery will be draw only although it remains to be seen how many tags/unit will be made available.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Wonder how many of the OTC archery hunters are building points at the same time. Will be interesting to see how many apply in 2025.

 

[HntHrdr]

Prepare for a serious bottle neck for some NR hunters… also watch Co make a bunch of otc units draw for NR and then sell more tags than they did when it was OTC… man I hate our state leadership haha

 

[Mallardsx2]

Wonder how many of the OTC archery hunters are building points at the same time. Will be interesting to see how many apply in 2025.

Every single person in my circle is/was building points while hunting OTC yearly.

The 2025 draws are going to be very crazy for sure.

This is why I was saying that these OTC to Draw changes needed to be paired with: "Draw ANY A-list male tag, lose your points".

 

[RRCowboyStar]

Every single person in my circle is/was building points while hunting OTC yearly.

The 2025 draws are going to be very crazy for sure.

This is why I was saying that these OTC to Draw changes needed to be paired with: "Draw ANY A-list male tag, lose your points".

Currant Recommendation from the working Draw Group is 75/25 split for all choices and use your point for any draw tag. This is still a work in progress and they will present to the commission in July.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Currant Recommendation from the working Draw Group is 75/25 split for all choices and use your point for any draw tag. This is still a work in progress and they will present to the commission in July.

Prepare to see their minds blown in July when the DPWG give this presentation. The DPWG did a TERRIBLE job of what they were supposed to accomplish.

It's going to be a complete explanation/learning experience $hit show for most.

 

[Twoshooter]

I dont hunt OTC arch elk so it wont effect me much on the surface, but it will start to impact everything else. I like what the draw working group is recommending so far. Adding a random element to the draw and eliminating most of the good reissue tags by having the abilty to opt in if you are next in line automaticaly for all draw tags when one is returned, burning your points. The fight will be over if you loose your points when you draw any of your choices vs status quo. The OTC for residents seems like a victory for resident archery guys, but I think all they did was kick the can. Colorado will be all draw for elk in the future, but rest assured that they will give so many tags out in the units that are currently OTC that you wont notice much of a difference for a while.

 

[SDBugler]

I haven't' been following this very close since I haven't purchased a NR OTC tag in many years.
So by making NR's apply for these tags will each unit be a limited quota for NR's? Or will they call what was once an OTC tag a "general" type tag and a NR can hunt any of the "OTC" or "general" units?

 

[Gadjet]

Prepare for a serious bottle neck for some NR hunters… also watch Co make a bunch of otc units draw for NR and then sell more tags than they did when it was OTC… man I hate our state leadership haha

My thoughts exactly! It's all smoke and mirrors.

 

[270Whatelse]

My thoughts exactly! It's all smoke and mirrors.

I 3rd this statement!

 

[diablo]

Sounds as though they voted to cap NR archery permit numbers at “25% of previous year’s participation.” Can anyone verify that?

 

[fallguy]

So if a NR has to draw an archery elk tag in an OTC unit, do they lose their points when they draw it as a 1st choice (just like in a limited entry unit)?

 

[nripepi]

Sounds as though they voted to cap NR archery permit numbers at “25% of previous year’s participation.” Can anyone verify that?

It must be 25% of the total, not 25% of non-resident hunters, correct? Is this based off of the total number of tags sold or are they going to somehow try to do it by unit using results from their surveys? The last option is going to be hard to do. They should use that data and more data on the herd to try and divy up the non-residents amongst units giving them 25% of the OTC tags.

 

[TKMulePacker]

So if a NR has to draw an archery elk tag in an OTC unit, do they lose their points when they draw it as a 1st choice (just like in a limited entry unit)?

Well, for NRs its no longer OTC, soooo.... ya.

And if im reading this properly that 2025 NR archery allocation will be 25% of the number of NR archery tags sold last year then it will likely be a 1st choice draw for most tags, not 2nd.

The days of come one come all for colorado's elk rut are over. And I couldnt be happier. Should have restricted it for residents as well and end OTC rifle but its a start.

 

[Skidmore]

Condoms would solve a lot

 

[RRCowboyStar]

I haven't' been following this very close since I haven't purchased a NR OTC tag in many years.
So by making NR's apply for these tags will each unit be a limited quota for NR's? Or will they call what was once an OTC tag a "general" type tag and a NR can hunt any of the "OTC" or "general" units?

Yes, each you will have a quota.

 

[RRCowboyStar]

So if a NR has to draw an archery elk tag in an OTC unit, do they lose their points when they draw it as a 1st choice (just like in a limited entry unit)?

Yes, as of now 1st choice will use your points.

 

[fallguy]

Yes, as of now 1st choice will use your points.

It's going to be interesting to see how many NR's burn their points in true limited entry units in the next few years so they don't have burn them on the units they used to hunt OTC.

 

[Gadjet]

I’m betting that a good percentage of the nonresident archery hunters will just simply buy a rifle elk tag over the counter and go hunting. The restrictions should have been put in place across the board, not just archery.

 

[HntHrdr]

That would make too much sense… there will be 5 years of crazy overcrowding, then they will make less units otc 2/3rd rifle and then after the crowding gets worse they will say I guess we need to take this away now

 

[RRCowboyStar]

The couple of buddies that I know, have said they will just start using their points and hunt archery. They don't want to miss whitetail hunting at home during Oct. Nov. Plus the main reason they come archery is for the elk rut.
I think most NR have been hunting archery OTC and have built points. Time to start using them.

 

[treedagain]

1st step to 100% draw for elk. Might be a win now, but time will tell on when.

 

[diablo]

I’m betting that a good percentage of the nonresident archery hunters will just simply buy a rifle elk tag over the counter and go hunting. The restrictions should have been put in place across the board, not just archery.

At the Commission meeting, CPW said they weren’t sure what would happen. They expect some guys to quit and some guys to buy an OTC rifle tag. They specifically told the Commission that they want to implement these changes incrementally and see what happens. They don’t want to tank their budget overnight. Sounds like they realize eliminating OTC for all NR hunts is inevitable.

Here’s the meeting link. Start listening at 2:37:00 minutes to hear the recommendations and discussion.

 

[AZGuy]

Wonder how many of the OTC archery hunters are building points at the same time. Will be interesting to see how many apply in 2025.

It just pushes them to the OTC rifle hunts.

 

[270Whatelse]

Why would anyone want to hunt an OTC tag when there are tags to draw with 0 points that are 10x better?

 

[fallguy]

Why would anyone want to hunt an OTC tag when there are tags to draw with 0 points that are 10x better?

Because they may have hunted an OTC unit for many years, know it well, and have had good success there.

 

[Danny_Ocean]

Because they may have hunted an OTC unit for many years, know it well, and have had good success there.

Exactly, I think we’ve arrowed 50ish elk in 20 years in our OTC unit.

Years of smiles, and sometimes cuss words late at night.

 

[nripepi]

Why would anyone want to hunt an OTC tag when there are tags to draw with 0 points that are 10x better?

Because they would burn their points unless it was 2nd choice!

 

[khunter]

So if a NR has to draw an archery elk tag in an OTC unit, do they lose their points when they draw it as a 1st choice (just like in a limited entry unit)?

yup.

 

[otcbowhunter]

So, if the NR's don't apply to any units and pick one up on the leftover list what has changed? Or they apply to a unit they know they can't draw and use the 2nd choice and don't burn any points?

 

[Mallardsx2]

So, if the NR's don't apply to any units and pick one up on the leftover list what has changed? Or they apply to a unit they know they can't draw and use the 2nd choice and don't burn any points?

Completley get what you are saying.

But.

Stay tuned.

More to come on this in the July CPW Commission dog and pony show meeting. Nobody knows exactly what will happen at this point.

A lot will be decided at the meeting along with a bunch of other garbage the draw process working group dreamt up.

 

[otcbowhunter]

Without "mandatory reporting" they have NO idea how many people hunted in each unit, therefore they can't put a number on a NR cap. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Without "mandatory reporting" they have NO idea how many people hunted in each unit, therefore they can't put a number on a NR cap. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thats correct.

But according to the boy genius Matt Eckert, they have a good idea from surveys. lol

Which is why I said they will back into the number of tags in a financial manner. Wait and see. Thats what will happen.

 

[Mallardsx2]

In my opinion, pressure will now remain a constant. There will be a TON of archery tags and you will see people who hunt the same unit on the same tag year after year after year. Just like you see in the 700's that went to an archery draw. The only difference this idea is going to make is that it is going to keep the NR's who jump from unit to unit all season long from happening. (Which by the way this isn't very common for a NR to do)

Thats why I said it would have been best if they limited the Residents in this manner as well. That would have prevented the unit jumping and overcrowding of the better units and spread the hunters out across the state units evenly. Everyone would have drawn a tag and 99% of the hunters would have been happy.

Instead, the residents rallied and cried the way to keeping the otc tags. Which to me makes 0 sense because they could have EASILY drawn a leftover tag for almost any area in the state. So, to me, the argument for residents to keep OTC Archery is ridiculous if you really look at it from the aspect of them being able to get tags.

Where things are going to get juicy will be when they make a decision on taking points for choices 1-4 and the 50/50 bonus-preference/preference draw methods. All to be discussed in July like I said earlier.

 

[otcbowhunter]

Funny you mention about unit jumping. In the past I hunted the SW units that went to draw. Never really affected me when it went to a draw, but I had spots in three different units that I would hit every year. That hurt the most.

 

[Danny_Ocean]

It’s a solid start for residents, the trick now is getting the tag allocations set correctly for NR. We won’t be at WY level demand for a bit, but it’s coming. Sadly, OTC rifle seasons wide open will still keep the bull quality in check. I wish they would have corrected that issue this go around as well but it’s a government program, I’ll take one positive every 10 years as a “good thing”

 

[RRCowboyStar]

In my opinion, pressure will now remain a constant. There will be a TON of archery tags and you will see people who hunt the same unit on the same tag year after year after year. Just like you see in the 700's that went to an archery draw. The only difference this idea is going to make is that it is going to keep the NR's who jump from unit to unit all season long from happening. (Which by the way this isn't very common for a NR to do)

Thats why I said it would have been best if they limited the Residents in this manner as well. That would have prevented the unit jumping and overcrowding of the better units and spread the hunters out across the state units evenly. Everyone would have drawn a tag and 99% of the hunters would have been happy.

Instead, the residents rallied and cried the way to keeping the otc tags. Which to me makes 0 sense because they could have EASILY drawn a leftover tag for almost any area in the state. So, to me, the argument for residents to keep OTC Archery is ridiculous if you really look at it from the aspect of them being able to get tags.

Where things are going to get juicy will be when they make a decision on taking points for choices 1-4 and the 50/50 bonus-preference/preference draw methods. All to be discussed in July like I said earlier.

Mallard

Sorry that the fight to keep the right to keep OTC for residents you consider crying. I assume you are a NR? When NR outnumber residents by thousands it OTC units I hope you can understand our frustration. I agree and happy that the Commissioners are looking at mandatory survey reporting rather than trusting data that can be manipulated very easily. I look at this as a big win for residents. Not sure why you are discounting the Draw working group. It sounds like they are supporting your views.

 

[RRCowboyStar]

 

[TKMulePacker]

View attachment 148814

Hey Cowboy where did you get this graph from? Looks like political propaganda, slightly misleading with some opinion and conjecture thrown in. I like the "Fact: all archery elk overcrowding is from non residents"

HERE ARE THE ACTUAL CHARTS FROM their own memo. Non resident license sales (and all license sales) have actually peaked and are in a minor downtrend, with NR OTC archery sales showing a steep decline in the last 2 years, bucking the covid trends. Not the exponential slope your chart shows. With that said I still think all OTC tags need to go away res and NR. Your chart is no bueno though. sourced from Fox news or biden campaign?

 

[TKMulePacker]

Also if we want to just strickly go by the charts, you could probably make a compelling argument that the yellow line on this chart is all you need, to say that OTC archery tags do not need to be eliminated at all, not actually a problem, perhaps even OTC archery crowding is fake news? The decline in total OTC archery sales since 2018 or so is pretty dramatic. Doesnt really lend to the overcrowding argument.

 

[RRCowboyStar]

TK

The chart that I provided came from a CORA request from the state as CPW admitted that there charts were estimated. They formally accepted these numbers.
I am interested why the animosity for allowing residents to keep the right to have OTC?

 

[Katoom]

The largest part of the decline in OTC archery tags resulted from moving OTC to draw in a number of units. Overall participation barely budged, and there only because LE quota had been cut some in various units around state like in NW. Interest and therefore crowding remains pretty much near peak. There are fewer elk in some places though.

 

[TKMulePacker]

TK

The chart that I provided came from a CORA request from the state as CPW admitted that there charts were estimated. They formally accepted these numbers.
I am interested why the animosity for allowing residents to keep the right to have OTC?

I am a resident. I am also a realist. Growing populations of humans and declining populations of elk means things need to change. Its that simple. OTC isnt a right, and it needs to go away, for all elk tags. Currently as residents we can get 2, even 3 elk tags including cow list C tags. Maybe that needs to be 1 elk per person per year.

 

[RRCowboyStar]

I am a resident. I am also a realist. Growing populations of humans and declining populations of elk means things need to change. Its that simple. OTC isnt a right, and it needs to go away, for all elk tags. Currently as residents we can get 2, even 3 elk tags including cow list C tags. Maybe that needs to be 1 elk per person per year.

The elk population actually increased this year. You say things need to change and they did, I guess I will have to respectfully agree to disagree. I am looking forward to see how the 75/25 split changes moving forward if becomes a hard cap that will be a change.

 

[TKMulePacker]

The elk population actually increased this year.

Thats because they all died the prior year. Thats like claiming record job and business growth after a government lead 2 year shutdown.

 

[Triple7]

I hope one day for limited entry across the board in Colorado for elk for resident and non resident alike for all seasons and all weapons. I think with a 75/25 quota a resident would still be able to draw a tag frequently unless quotas were drastically cut. There is some current otc units that would produce quality bulls and an experience if they had a chance to get some age. I know if it meant waiting a couple years to draw and having a better quality hunt with less hunting pressure and seeing more elk I’d be all in.

 

[BeanMan]

Every single person in my circle is/was building points while hunting OTC yearly.

The 2025 draws are going to be very crazy for sure.

This is why I was saying that these OTC to Draw changes needed to be paired with: "Draw ANY A-list male tag, lose your points".

That’s already the case, draw any bull or female tag as a first choice and you already lose your points

 

[BeanMan]

Prepare to see their minds blown in July when the DPWG give this presentation. The DPWG did a TERRIBLE job of what they were supposed to accomplish.

It's going to be a complete explanation/learning experience $hit show for most.

Did you mean CPW?

 

[BeanMan]

Hey Cowboy where did you get this graph from? Looks like political propaganda, slightly misleading with some opinion and conjecture thrown in. I like the "Fact: all archery elk overcrowding is from non residents"

HERE ARE THE ACTUAL CHARTS FROM their own memo. Non resident license sales (and all license sales) have actually peaked and are in a minor downtrend, with NR OTC archery sales showing a steep decline in the last 2 years, bucking the covid trends. Not the exponential slope your chart shows. With that said I still think all OTC tags need to go away res and NR. Your chart is no bueno though. sourced from Fox news or biden campaign?

View attachment 148818View attachment 148819

A guy named Brandon Siegfried made this graph. He made a CORA request to get the information and it turns out the graph you posted from CPW was not the truth. Go figure.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Did you mean CPW?

No. I didn’t.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Mallard

Sorry that the fight to keep the right to keep OTC for residents you consider crying.

Well….Danny Farris was literally crying.

It was pathetic.

If you watched the cpw meeting you would recall this embarrassing testimony. It was cringeworthy.

 

[Mallardsx2]

You can skip to 3:28:30

 

[BeanMan]

No. I didn’t.

Which state were you talking about then?

 

[RRCowboyStar]

Well….Danny Farris was literally crying.

It was pathetic.

If you watched the cpw meeting you would recall this embarrassing testimony. It was cringeworthy.

I was at the meeting. It's similar to those that don't agree with the outcome of the meeting.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Which state were you talking about then?

wtf are you talking about dude?

DPWG is the draw process working group.

You know, the ones who are basically deciding the fate of the rest of this utter $hit show in Colorado.

 

[RRCowboyStar]

wtf are you talking about dude?

DPWG is the draw process working group.

You know, the ones who are basically deciding the fate of the rest of this utter $hit show in Colorado.

Mallard

What would make you happy? Anything?

 

[Mallardsx2]

I would like to see the following:

-Force people to use their points. Literally, for any male species tag they acquire in the state of Colorado. If ya draw an a-list male tag, your points go to 0. No exceptions.

-0 turning in of tags, for any excuse. You draw it, you hunt it, or don’t, I don’t care. But it’s your tag.

-Everything becomes a draw, FOR EVERYONE.

That would make me happy.

And to be honest, it solves a ton of problems.

 

[RRCowboyStar]

I would like to see the following:

-Force people to use their points. Literally, for any male species tag they acquire in the state of Colorado. If ya draw an a-list male tag, your points go to 0. No exceptions.

-0 turning in of tags, for any excuse. You draw it, you hunt it, or don’t, I don’t care. But it’s your tag.

-Everything becomes a draw, FOR EVERYONE.

That would make me happy.

And to be honest, it solves a ton of problems.

Luckily we are all entitled to an opinion. I respectfully disagree. There are several states that sound like you would be happy to apply for and hunt.
With a state that has a "Ton of Problems" you must be miserable when you come here to hunt.
But it sounds like the DPWG is doing exactly as you are asking, maybe that will make you happy. except for preserving OTC archery for residents.

 

[fallguy]

Well….Danny Farris was literally crying.

It was pathetic.

If you watched the cpw meeting you would recall this embarrassing testimony. It was cringeworthy.

First off, I don't know Danny Farris. I also didn't think he was crying - he did have to pause and regain his composure because his testimony was from the heart. So he got choked up - to me that shows passion for what he's talking about.

Considering that some of the commissioners do not hunt, and do not understand that hunting is more than blood and killing, I'm glad Danny Farris showed up to express his beliefs and feelings to protect hunting opportunities for the residents of Colorado.

You may not agree on what he said or how he said it but to call his comments, "pathetic, embarrassing and cringeworthy" is being a overly dramatic and unfair to the man.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I call bs.

When an adult male human being is giving testimony in front of a state wildlife commission they shouldn’t be crying and sobbing like a child.

Be a man. Say what you’re there to say.

I had a $hitty childhood too. But I wouldn’t be crying about it to prove my point to a board of wildlife commissioners to maintain otc elk tags.

 

[RRCowboyStar]

I call bs.

When an adult male human being is giving testimony in front of a state wildlife commission they shouldn’t be crying and sobbing like a child.

Be a man. Say what you’re there to say.

I had a $hitty childhood too. But I wouldn’t be crying about it to prove my point to a board of wildlife commissioners to maintain otc elk tags.

Damn Mallard. I thought I was the grumpy one in this conversation.

 

[MountainSqwabler]

I call bs.

When an adult male human being is giving testimony in front of a state wildlife commission they shouldn’t be crying and sobbing like a child.

Be a man. Say what you’re there to say.

I had a $hitty childhood too. But I wouldn’t be crying about it to prove my point to a board of wildlife commissioners to maintain otc elk tags.

Guys who say "I had a shtty childhood too" are typically the ones who's childhood wasn't that bad.

Also, saying the phrase "be a man" because a guy got choked up is the saddest, weakest comment to make. Super egotistical comment to make.

 

[Triple7]

I would like to see the following:

-Force people to use their points. Literally, for any male species tag they acquire in the state of Colorado. If ya draw an a-list male tag, your points go to 0. No exceptions.

-0 turning in of tags, for any excuse. You draw it, you hunt it, or don’t, I don’t care. But it’s your tag.

-Everything becomes a draw, FOR EVERYONE.

That would make me happy.

And to be honest, it solves a ton of problems.

^^^
I agree with all of this as well other than I think the only way a tag should be turned in and points restored is death of a family member or a legit serious medical emergency situation.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Guys who say "I had a shtty childhood too" are typically the ones who's childhood wasn't that bad.

Also, saying the phrase "be a man" because a guy got choked up is the saddest, weakest comment to make. Super egotistical comment to make.

Pile on bro. lol

Did you find any private land to hunt your OTC tag on yet? Lmao

 

[MountainSqwabler]

Pile on bro. lol

Did you find any private land to hunt your OTC tag on yet? Lmao

Is that supposed to be insulting or something? Carful, your small man complex is showing.

 

[TKMulePacker]

A guy named Brandon Siegfried made this graph. He made a CORA request to get the information and it turns out the graph you posted from CPW was not the truth. Go figure.

No no. Look at Mr Siegfrieds chart. He used the same Data as the CPW charts, he just cherry picked 3 data points out of 25 years of data to create a BS chart that shows he wants you to see. All three of the NR data points in the Siegfried chart match the corresponding year on CPWs total archery lisence sold chart. He didnt uncover any truth, He cherry picked what was given and created a chart with a fraction of the data points as CPW that shows a skewed version of the truth. Also the bottom axis of his chart uses a manipulated scale. Same gap between 2003-2010 (7 years) as 2010-2023 (13 years). Amateur hour.

Since he only used 3 data points it takes about 30 seconds to figure this all out.


2003: Seigfriend, ~15000 NR lisence sold
2003: CPW, ~15000 NR lisence sold

2010: Seigfriend ~16000 NR lisence sold
2010: CPW ~ 16000 NR lisence sold

2023 Seifriend ~ 22000 NR lisence sold
2023 CPW ~22000 NR lisence sold

Ill even include the charts side by side.

Some fancy cherry picking with some opinion and conjecture. He also switched the line colors to try and make you think harder so you dont see what he did. Fake news.

 

[SanJuan]

No no. Look at Mr Siegfrieds chart. He used the same Data as the CPW charts, he just cherry picked 3 data points out of 25 years of data to create a BS chart that shows he wants you to see. All three of the NR data points in the Siegfried chart match the corresponding year on CPWs total archery lisence sold chart. He didnt uncover any truth, He cherry picked what was given and created a chart with a fraction of the data points as CPW that shows a skewed version of the truth. Also the bottom axis of his chart uses a manipulated scale. Same gap between 2003-2010 (7 years) as 2010-2023 (13 years). Amateur hour.

Since he only used 3 data points it takes about 30 seconds to figure this all out.


2003: Seigfriend, ~15000 NR lisence sold
2003: CPW, ~15000 NR lisence sold

2010: Seigfriend ~16000 NR lisence sold
2010: CPW ~ 16000 NR lisence sold

2023 Seifriend ~ 22000 NR lisence sold
2023 CPW ~22000 NR lisence sold

Ill even include the charts side by side.

View attachment 148870
View attachment 148871

Some fancy cherry picking with some opinion and conjecture. He also switched the line colors to try and make you think harder so you dont see what he did. Fake news.

CPW's original chart shows ~14,000 resident tags in 2003, while Brandon's chart shows ~20,200 in 2003. It is definitely not the same data.

 

[Danny_Ocean]

I hope one day for limited entry across the board in Colorado for elk for resident and non resident alike for all seasons and all weapons. I think with a 75/25 quota a resident would still be able to draw a tag frequently unless quotas were drastically cut. There is some current otc units that would produce quality bulls and an experience if they had a chance to get some age. I know if it meant waiting a couple years to draw and having a better quality hunt with less hunting pressure and seeing more elk I’d be all in.

What about those who have this already?

I would like to see the following:

-Force people to use their points. Literally, for any male species tag they acquire in the state of Colorado. If ya draw an a-list male tag, your points go to 0. No exceptions.

-0 turning in of tags, for any excuse. You draw it, you hunt it, or don’t, I don’t care. But it’s your tag.

-Everything becomes a draw, FOR EVERYONE.

That would make me happy.

And to be honest, it solves a ton of problems.

Nothing needs to be changed other than limiting the NRs on the rifle tags. I'd even go so far as saying limit all on the rifles. Bow, leave it alone and drop the tags for NR.

 

[TKMulePacker]

CPW's original chart shows ~14,000 resident tags in 2003, while Brandon's chart shows ~20,200 in 2003. It is definitely not the same data.

Ok, lets look at the resident data since brandon only used 3 points. 2003 resident lisences is the only of the three that does not match the CPW point. Given brandons inability to present data properly, im SURE he got that 2003 resident number correct.

Why didnt brandon use every year of data? Well, that would have been too much work and his chart would then look identical to CPWs.

Does brandon give all you guys HJ's behind closed doors or something?

Heck, I AGREE WITH WHAT HE's trying to prove. but that chart... and the willingness of all ya'll to just accept it as truth without any idependent analysis is pretty sad.

**Here guys, I did a CORA request and I made this chart with 6 data points out of the 72 data points they gave me, I got one wrong because I cant read, then I added my opinion to the title box and jacked with the x axis scale to increase the slope of my trend line.**

OHH YAAAA THATLL SHOW EM

 

[MrDoe]

Ok, lets look at the resident data since brandon only used 3 points. 2003 resident lisences is the only of the three that does not match the CPW point. Given brandons inability to present data properly, im SURE he got that 2003 resident number correct.

Why didnt brandon use every year of data? Well, that would have been too much work and his chart would then look identical to CPWs.

Does brandon give all you guys HJ's behind closed doors or something?

Heck, I AGREE WITH WHAT HE's trying to prove. but that chart... and the willingness of all ya'll to just accept it as truth without any idependent analysis is pretty sad.

**Here guys, I did a CORA request and I made this chart with 6 data points out of the 72 data points they gave me, I got one wrong because I cant read, then I added my opinion to the title box and jacked with the x axis scale to increase the slope of my trend line.**

OHH YAAAA THATLL SHOW EM

Are you an outfitter?

 

[txhunter58]

wtf are you talking about dude?

DPWG is the draw process working group.

You know, the ones who are basically deciding the fate of the rest of this utter $hit show in Colorado.

A guy asked you a simple respectful question and you react like this. You just earned my ignore list. I know it doesn’t mean anything to you but I am tired of listening to your BS

 

[txhunter58]

Dang, that took less than 10 seconds. Felt good too

 

[lostinOregon]

They went to draw a couple years ago on grand Mesa for archery elk. Then issued so many tags there were leftovers. Doesn’t change a thing if the tag numbers are high. Only thing it does is doesn’t allow to move to another unit or area of the state. Zero accomplished.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

I would like to see the following:

-Force people to use their points. Literally, for any male species tag they acquire in the state of Colorado. If ya draw an a-list male tag, your points go to 0. No exceptions.

-0 turning in of tags, for any excuse. You draw it, you hunt it, or don’t, I don’t care. But it’s your tag.

-Everything becomes a draw, FOR EVERYONE.

That would make me happy.

And to be honest, it solves a ton of problems.

Oh looky another east coast whitetail douche that thinks they know western hunting. Also if your applying in any other western state your a hypocrite. Bowsite and Rokslide also told you to go pound sand. You should probably stick to tree stands and bait piles.

 

[Triple7]

They went to draw a couple years ago on grand Mesa for archery elk. Then issued so many tags there were leftovers. Doesn’t change a thing if the tag numbers are high. Only thing it does is doesn’t allow to move to another unit or area of the state. Zero accomplished.

Yeah they would have to really cut down on the tags issued to make a difference for a quality hunt. And CPW is all about selling licenses. In some draw archery units now the tag #’s are more than the elk population. Units 80/81 in the south central part has a quota of I believe 2000 for the archery elk hunt, I seriously doubt there’s 2000 elk in those two units.

 

[WapitiBob]

They went to draw a couple years ago on grand Mesa for archery elk. Then issued so many tags there were leftovers. Doesn’t change a thing if the tag numbers are high. Only thing it does is doesn’t allow to move to another unit or area of the state. Zero accomplished.

As you know, OR did the same. It's pretty much just a way to control hunter numbers on a unit by unit basis.

 

[Serrano]

They went to draw a couple years ago on grand Mesa for archery elk. Then issued so many tags there were leftovers. Doesn’t change a thing if the tag numbers are high. Only thing it does is doesn’t allow to move to another unit or area of the state. Zero accomplished.

That's not what is happening in the new San Juan limited units.

There are no leftovers and most of the tags are being sold to NRs.

In Units 77 and 80, 75% of the tags were sold to NRs.

 

[Grouse Legs]

this utter $hit show in Colorado.

Stay in Georgia then little guy

 

[lostinOregon]

That's not what is happening in the new San Juan limited units.

There are no leftovers and most of the tags are being sold to NRs.

In Units 77 and 80, 75% of the tags were sold to NRs.

Yep, too many tags as I said above. 2,000 tags and only 456 residents that apply. As I said it does Nothing because of the tag numbers

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Because CPW has no actual idea how many people actually hunt OTC units

 

[Danny_Ocean]

That's not what is happening in the new San Juan limited units.

There are no leftovers and most of the tags are being sold to NRs.

In Units 77 and 80, 75% of the tags were sold to NRs.

I get what you're saying, but the reason the NRs are getting those tags is because R's aren't putting in for those units. If R's wanted more tags, they'd first choice it, and draw.

Its mind blowing that 2000 tags are offered for two units.

 

[Serrano]

Yep, too many tags as I said above. 2,000 tags and only 456 residents that apply. As I said it does Nothing because of the tag numbers

I know hunters who do want the tag but don't want to use their first choice on a pseudo-OTC tag. They are being overwhelmed by the number of NR applications.

 

[Serrano]

Some of those hunters are moving into the remaining OTC units. Overcrowding those units.

 

[Danny_Ocean]

Some of those hunters are moving into the remaining OTC units. Overcrowding those units.

No doubt that is happening, seen it and it was guys from 80 who moved over a couple units. The reality is if they want the tag, they know how to get it. It's called apply with the first choice.

In general what they want is a hooker on Friday, their girlfriend on Saturday, and their wives on Sunday and not get penalized for their first two choices.

 

[Triple7]

Opportunity- ( highly overcrowded / rag horns majority of bulls killed) versus Quality ( draw tags, lower quotas, less hunters, better quality hunting) I’m not against the guy that’s wanting to meat hunt ect. But I do hate hunting in a sea of orange where there’s serious over crowding and pressure. Colorado could rival New Mexico for quality in most units if it was managed the same. But I am aware not everyone feels the same as I do.

 

[txhunter58]

I know hunters who do want the tag but don't want to use their first choice on a pseudo-OTC tag. They are being overwhelmed by the number of NR applications.

This change should solve that problem. Will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

 

[Serrano]

This change should solve that problem. Will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

It won't solve it, next year more NRs may apply for the San Juan's and other recently converted OTC.
Limited tags (although pseudo-OTC) might seem a better choice than OTC. The odds might be better.

There needs to be a cap on NR in limited units for choices 1-4.

 

[Serrano]

I know some of you NRs think the solution is residents giving up tags. You want us to give up hope of a good, limited tag by using our first choice for pseudo-OTC tags.

The solution to NRs getting 75% of the tags is not residents giving up tags.

 

[HntHrdr]

I know some of you NRs think the solution is residents giving up tags. You want us to give up hope of a good, limited tag by using our first choice for pseudo-OTC tags.

The solution to NRs getting 75% of the tags is not residents giving up tags.

This is the answer… unfortunately all the hunting “media heros” have completely change the game as we know it. If you are a resident of a state your hunting should come first full stop. Once the residents have tags then we can sell excess to NR, i would feel this way no matter where I lived. Heck I have money tied up in several western states that went from every year to every 3 to maybe 5 years, and that’s okay. It’s not my right to hunt someone else’s state every year

 

[270Whatelse]

It is my right to hunt "someone else's" state if I legally have a license.

 

[coloradoman]

This is the answer… unfortunately all the hunting “media heros” have completely change the game as we know it. If you are a resident of a state your hunting should come first full stop. Once the residents have tags then we can sell excess to NR, i would feel this way no matter where I lived. Heck I have money tied up in several western states that went from every year to every 3 to maybe 5 years, and that’s okay. It’s not my right to hunt someone else’s state every year

^^ this

 

[coloradoman]

It is my right to hunt "someone else's" state if I legally have a license.

Yes I agree but your missing the point of limiting NR’s in Colorado

 

[txhunter58]

It won't solve it, next year more NRs may apply for the San Juan's and other recently converted OTC.
Limited tags (although pseudo-OTC) might seem a better choice than OTC. The odds might be better.

There needs to be a cap on NR in limited units for choices 1-4.

It won't solve it, next year more NRs may apply for the San Juan's and other recently converted OTC.
Limited tags (although pseudo-OTC) might seem a better choice than OTC. The odds might be better.

There needs to be a cap on NR in limited units for choices 1-4.

Sorry. I misunderstood. I thought the comment was about a unit that was currently OTC and going limited, not one that is already limited. I should have read closer. .

 

[elkmo41]

The changes should make for a better hunt experience, but will the quality of bulls change for the better? I see the NR’s that are not archery purist grabbing a OTC rifle tag, and more guns vs bows during a year has to increase harvest. I don’t see bull age structure increasing in OTC units.

 

[Triple7]

Nor do I see age structure changing in the archery draw hunts either with the amount of tags given. Colorado gets hammered by all the non res who struck out in the draw in other western states for elk either by otc or plentiful quota tags.

 

[Gadjet]

The changes should make for a better hunt experience, but will the quality of bulls change for the better? I see the NR’s that are not archery purist grabbing a OTC rifle tag, and more guns vs bows during a year has to increase harvest. I don’t see bull age structure increasing in OTC units.

This is what I believe will happen.

 

[1989Cohunter]

no matter what happens people will be unhappy. I’d like to see less pressure in otc units. I’d be happy to get out of the points race completely for better hunting quality.

 

[lostinOregon]

Always going to have some NR tags. I don’t see it going 100 percent resident. Colorado needs to limit the number of hunters hunting elk and they should start with NR and I’m a NR. Need a reasonable cap on NRs. In this day and age nothing should be unlimited