Nonresidents, who's in?

ElmerFudd

Very Active Member
Messages
2,446
I was going to pass on NM elk this year, because I drew WY..But decided I'll throw in for the primo tags last time before they cut the tags and up the price next year.

So...what are the other nonresidents going to do? Pass for principle, or get in for one last hurrah? Did the future change affect your decision?

Just an informal poll...for curiosity. Not making any political point....
 
I'm waiting to see about the oryx draw first and then decide. As for next year (assuming 196 passes), as long as they have oryx I will be applying and since I'll have to buy the ?license? I'll put in for everything under the sun. For me NM is the Land of Entrapment!

"Whatever you are, be a good one."
- Abraham Lincoln
 
At least they haven't resorted to the points enTRAPment scam...:) This year is likely my last to apply in NM.

Oh well...The new legislation will still treat unguided nonresidents on par with UT after the expo raids the nonresident tags and far better than OR after the outfitter draw robs the nonresident quota...OK, couldn't resist one political statement:)
 
My little group already had our applications in before the whole truth abouth the proposed changes was out. If the $65 fee just to apply becomes law our group consenses is to skip NM and apply further north. Hate to see it come to this but looks like it will.

Phantom Hunter
 
I have already started researching other states further north, but I will apply one last time.

The bill will not affect the hunters that can afford an outfitter or just buy a land owner tag, those guys will still love NM. It is the DIY regular Joe nonresidents that NM will no longer have visiting their state...
 
Since when did the NM forum become the cry baby forum? Why aren't you guys crying about other states? It will take me 15+ years to draw my NR Arizona elk and deer hunts. I guess I should start crying on their page, maybe I will get some sympathy. I wont miss you or your money. So why don't you take your box of Kleenex, and start looking at Colorado.
 
Can't you read before you post? I did mention other states being worse...

No crying. Just saying It's not worth it, mo money for less tags. I'm totally OK with whatever NM choses to do. They have the right to price and distribute tags as they choose. I'll just choose not to buy when the cost is too high to me for the return...Like any other product.

It's not just the extra money. It's the extra money for less...Duh...
 
My applications were already in for Elk and Deer before this whole thing went down.

I will apply next year as well, but will have to re-evaluate after that. Unless applications go way down it won't be worth it to apply.

Calculating the units I typically apply for the odds will go from 36% on deer to 10% if the same number of hunters apply based on the new way they will move leftover guided tags into the resident pool.

At $65 per year X 10 years + $20 application fee for 10 years that will be a $1,000+ tag IF I draw it.

I had been applying for some of the premium elk units with the best odds at 5%. With the new % that will drop down to 3% and even with only paying $20 per year you would rack up $600 in application fees and it would be 30 years before I would draw a tag statistically. That would put me at 72.

I realize I only have to pay the $65 once per year, but it's not really the $65 that concerns me, it is the extremely low drawing odds that paying that money would get me.

If the number of applicants doesn't go WAY down it won't be worth applying anymore to me.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-11 AT 12:59PM (MST)[p]>Since when did the NM forum
>become the cry baby forum?
> Why aren't you guys
>crying about other states?
>It will take me 15+
>years to draw my NR
>Arizona elk and deer hunts.
> I guess I should
>start crying on their page,
>maybe I will get some
>sympathy. I wont miss
>you or your money.
>So why don't you take
>your box of Kleenex, and
>start looking at Colorado.

I only responded to the original post because it specifically asked what other nonresidents planned to do in the future regarding their hunting plans in New Mexico. It seems appropriate that it was posted in the New Mexico forum since it relates to hunting in New Mexico.

With the rude responses and the repeated "kiss off, we never wanted you in our state" comments and attitudes that have become commonplace in the New Mexico forum I would imagine that many will get their wish and less and less nonresidents will be visiting this forum or New Mexcio in the future.
 
We may apply this year, but then we're done.

The odds just don't justify the cost.

New Mexico screwed up. BIG!

Once they realize it, they will be too prideful to retract, so they will try to bandage it with a points system. Mark my words.

Grizzly
 
I think with the idea of all of the NRs boycotting New Mexico on all of the forums, the odds for some primo hunts will increase pretty well for the NRs. So with the higher odds some NRs will see the higher costs worth the higher odds. Only time will tell if this was a good or bad move.
 
I am putting me and my son in this year for pronghorn and elk.Just remember guys not all the people from new mexico are like the few assclowns who think there now going to get there tag with this change.Dont let them change your mind on hunting new mexico.There are some good people there who will help a non resident in a heart beat.AS long as I have the money I will be trying to draw there.
 
Being an accountant who pretends to dabble in some numbers I find the entire concept pretty interesting from that perspective.

When it is all said and done I really don't think the "premium" units will be affected very much. Those odds were so low to begin with that there would have to be a huge swing in applications to make much difference. Most would be going single digit odds to single digit odds. Say 9% down to 6%, or 5% down to 3%. Statistically those are decreases of 40%, but to the individual applying for the tag, they were already long shots and still will be.

My gut feel says that a decent number of folks may drop out of the application process since their cost will be going up 400% while thier odds would be going down 40%. It's hard to say exactly how many will drop out though. Based on the initial reaction of many on the internet forums it might be substantial, but I'm not sure. If the number of folks applying on these premium units drops in half, then the folks that are left will actually have a slight increase in their drawing odds. Not sure if that will happen though.

On the "non premium" tags they are going to be affected much more dramatically. As I mentioned in my earlier post, in the past the 12% guided pool went unused in many of these units, especially on the deer side. Those moved over to the nonresident nonguided in the past and we enjoyed very high draw odds on these units. Now the unused 10% guided pool moves over to the residents so instead of 22% of the tags going to nonguided nonresidents, only 6% will for a drop of 73%. To keep the odds the same there would have to be a 73% reduction in the number of applicants and I don't think that will happen.

I can't decide if some of the folks that were previously applying for the premium units might move down to some of the medium quality units or if they will drop out completely. Not sure if the kind of guy that is just wanting to go hunting is going to be willing to spend the extra $ to apply each year or not. If we assume that the number of applications will drop in 1/2 then the draw odds would actually improve in some units and drop a bit in other units depending on the number of guided tags that were going unused.

Remember, we've already had a pretty decent drop in the number of deer applications when they went to pay in advance for the tags instead of just paying the application fee so the ones that are left are probably a little more dedicated folks so not as many might drop out.

Again, I think the $65 isn't as big of an issue as the decreased odds, but the combination is the double whammy. If New Mexico had implemented the fee this year and then a few years down the road cut the %, I don't think there would have been as big of a backlash.

Then again, some folks think that for each one of the crybaby nonresidents posting here that quits applying that there will be 50 brand new hunters willing to take their place and contribute to the New Mexico economy. If that's the case there will for sure be no reason to apply because the odds will be completely worthless.

If I was a gambling man I would set the over under on 2012 nonguided nonresident applications at a reduction of 33% from the 2011 applications.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-11 AT 03:09PM (MST)[p] If no one is putting then it sounds like your odds should really go up. You think about 90% are saying they are not going to put in anymore then that is 90% less applicants, you will get less tags, but without the 90% putting in your odds will actually go up.
 
Too early to tell at this point for me. Utah charges $65 w/the guise of points and everybody puts in there. Problem is that 5 points will never get me to the finish line in the high points division.
Wyoming the same way, I will never be max points on the big three, yet I throw in $189 per year for a -1% chance in the random.
Draws are definitely a high priced lotto ticket no doubt about it!
Probably in for NM 2012 if I had to decide right now.
 
Not much will change. The average hunter doesn't read more than the page with the hunt code. Look at how many were clueless to pay up front last year.
 
BillC,
I am guessing you are referring to me as one of the "assclown" (real clever by the way)residents because I am happy that there are going to be more tags in residents hands. You all are right, MY individual odds may not be going up too much but for all my friends, family, and any other acquaintances that I might be able to join on a hunt OUR, odds as a group go up. And don't start assuming stuff about the way I feel about NR's BillC, you can personally ask SDBugler if I hate NR's. Ask him if I didnt personally call him and try and get him and his son on a buck I saw for a late rifle hunt. Call a group of guys from KS that my Dad and I have taken multiple times to bag a nice NM bull and ask them if they think I never want them to come here again!

This is seriously getting out of hand, what in the hell is so hard to understand here? Why in the F*** would I be happy that you and your son FROM TEXAS!!!!! can hunt in my home state more than my Dad and I can?!?!?!

I do get it though, you guys have been fattened by the ability to easily hunt in one of the best states in the west and now that it will be difficult to draw like the rest of the states in the west, you piss yourself!

One last tip, for all you whiny NR's (not all NR's) go down to your local state's Walgreens and buy some Vagisil.

Hunt Hard. Shoot Straight. Kill Clean. Apologize to No One.
 
I'm thinking the drop in applicants, if any, will be short termed.

After all, draw odds for a quality elk hunt will still be better in NM than in most states, especially for the applicants on the short end of the points pyramid.

Most people will just put their heads down and pay more for less. How many are cutting back on non essiential driving with the current raise in gas prices?
 
I have always thought about applying in Idaho but end up not after you factor in the annual license fee and the fact that you get nothing if you do not draw (no points). I certainly have mixed feelings about point systems (they really suck for sheep etc. unless you were one of the lucky few that started building points year one) but I like them for species with more tags. I am adding one more state in 2011 and will likely drop New Mexico in 2013 - I will gamble in 2012 that the number of applicants will drop enough to make the extra costs worth while, I really doubt that will happen though. I think most of the non-residents saying they will not apply is hot air.
 
I will apply when I don't draw a spring turkey tag here. I will be paying for a license to hunt turkey anyway so why not. Makes sense to me. Never know when you are going to get lucky.
 
Sitting it out, Our group of 4 will be on the sidelines seeing if they will change it or not, We really don't want to get into another point game with playing that game in 4 states already.

I don't think it will make much of a different in the amount of NR that puts in because 95% don't know about SB 196, I talked to several hunters out here and they had no clue what NM was doing.
So going off that it should be business as usual for NM and the Draws.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
Im in the same boat. Drew WY general elk tag, but still plan to try for primo tags in NM. I'm on the fence about next year. I dont like the outfitter welfare that is being provided by the state. But I figure applicant number will drop a lot next year with the new fees and perception of decreased odds, so really the odds might still stay the same for DIY NRs. I'm willing to pay a little more for the opportunity.
 
Iowan, you can Elk hunt Idaho every year. Friends that go up there even bought a 2nd Elk tag after getting their regular bulls.
 
I did not have anyone in mind with my comment other then anyone who thinks this is better for new mexico's wildlife.Neither myself or son is from texas by the way.Glad to see you helped a non resident fellow hunter out from on here.I also said not all people from new mexico are bad people.Guess it is human nature to not be happy when something gets changed that was better for you.Someone will be happy over this others will not like it.I am in the crowd of people who do not like it.Why should I like a system that is now like most other states that everyone was unhappy with.This got more attention because times are different now then when most other states changed to the 10% or so.I still plan on trying to hunt new mexico when ever either myself or son draw a tag.
 
You bet I'm in!!! This year, next year, and the following years. For me and for my three sons.

When you consider the trophy potential that NM has for some species it is still well worth the extra cost even if the odds decrease. If you split the $65 cost of the license over applications for elk, antelope, deer, sheep, ibex, oryx it really isn't that significant of an increase per application. This is really not any different than UT or AZ. Granted in UT and AZ you get preference points for your investment, but we all know the down side to that as well.

The NR's have had it pretty good for a long time and now NM is just making adjustments to resemble what other states are doing.

I still dissagree with the DIY vs. Guided allocation, but that is another topic altogether.

As far as TerynItUp's post above. I will personaly vouch for his character (as well as many other NM residents). He had no idea who I was but read on MM that my son had a tag in an area near him last fall. He came across a good buck and made some contacts to others on this site to get my cell phone number and he called me while we were hunting to tell us about the buck. How amny other people would go out of their way and spend the time and effort to do that??? Here is a link to the story if you don't believe him.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID34/2722.html

I have said this in the past on several posts, but I will say it again. NM has some of the most helpful and friendly people I have ever met!!!
 
I'm in for elk as usual and next year will put in for everything since I am having to buy a license. So, like MNHunter, will put in not only for elk, but for good deer and antelope units and any other species I can. I wonder if a bunch of us NR's adopt this strategy, then it could have a interesting impact on the odds across the board perhaps.

WP


"My only regret in life is setting my goals too low"
 
so long as people are willing to throw money at an unfair system the State will gladly take the money. There is only one thing the "State" understands and that is money.
 
SDBugler,
If you ever hunt around 6C or the Valles Caldera let me know, I can help you with a place to stay if nothing else. Your attitude makes for great hunting companions.

--Bill
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-11 AT 09:32PM (MST)[p]This will most likely be my last year. I don't see a need to pay $65 a year, along with lower draw odds, and not even have a preference point coming my way to at least help guarantee that one day I might have a tag

I will most likely be going North to Co for an over the counter elk tag(which costs less) and put in for the deer hunts via their draw.
 
Sorry for uncorking on you Bill, you seem like a good guy who wants the same thing I do, quality hunting opportunities. I know there isn't a solution that everyone will be happy about but I am just glad to see NM residents getting a better shot now.

From now on I am going to go to the campfire to calm me down before I post anything!

Congrats to you lucky Oryx guys!

Hunt Hard. Shoot Straight. Kill Clean. Apologize to No One.
 
No problem Terynitup.We all love hunting and just to bad we can not just all go as often as we like.I just wish we all worked on growing the wildlife to get more tags out there for all of us.I have a feeling for all the beating up on each other we all have done we would still share a campfire with anyone on here.Like I said before I am still coming there when ever I can get tags as I have made some good friends in new mexico.
 
SAAAWWEEET! I just read through this post and it made my day. Thats right boys you stay at home where its warm and safe. Let us men go out and hunt those huge NM bulls. Maybe i will draw two years in a row now that you have all dropped out of the game. Thanks again!
 
Hey Terynitup....when was NM an easy draw for a nonres? You make it sound like a nonres. could draw a tag anytime they wanted to... WTF.
 
Just saying that a few of our friends from KS have come back 2-3 x's in the last 5 years for a hunt I have drawn once in 6 years. Unit 6A late archery elk to be exact.

Hunt Hard. Shoot Straight. Kill Clean. Apologize to No One.
 
jodog,
You are right, I do have bad luck. But, let me straighten this out for you.....courtesy of our very own MM Hunt Draw Odds.

Here are two of the hunts I will probably apply for just to up my odds compared to other units/hunts I have tried for in the past:

Unit 2, 2nd Archery Elk
NR- 70.6%
R- 29.4%

Unit 2. 1st Archery Deer
NR- 76.5%
R- 45.7%

Dont tell me that its all luck.


Hunt Hard. Shoot Straight. Kill Clean. Apologize to No One.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-11 AT 07:25PM (MST)[p]However the MM draw odds charts are figured up is not totally correct. I looked at them last season and if you actually do the math via the data that the state gives this website can be way off
 
My bottom line

Take it for what it is worth or hate it and hate me for it.

The nonresident blue collar hunters are getting the di** from your state. Anybody that wants to argue that is an ignorant fool.

All of the residents that think you are reclaiming your state need to think again and realign your sights on your own residents and take the tags back from them. Your LO tags are a joke that keep even you from hunting without paying to play.
 
I'll keep trying to draw. It's hard enough already, but its hard to forget about those big ol' bulls screaming their guts out in september.





The voices in my head may not be real, but they have
some good ideas!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-11 AT 09:49PM (MST)[p]You resident hunters who are pounding your chests I ask you what have you really accomplished? You still have a corrupt landowner welfare system. You still subsidize Outfitters with tags that should belong to the general public. So all you've really done is screw the average Joe non-resident and the guy who would rather hunt without an outfitter because doing it on your own is more rewarding anyway.
 
The New Mexico draw system is messed up pretty bad...Hopefully they'll figure it out someday. Until then I'll just apply in other States.
 
>My bottom line
>
>Take it for what it is
>worth or hate it and
>hate me for it.
>
>The nonresident blue collar hunters are
>getting the di** from your
>state. Anybody that wants to
>argue that is an ignorant
>fool.
>
>All of the residents that think
>you are reclaiming your state
>need to think again and
>realign your sights on your
>own residents and take the
>tags back from them. Your
>LO tags are a joke
>that keep even you from
>hunting without paying to play.
>
I hate welfare of any kind.
 
The numbers can be "deceiving" IMO

Unit 2, 2nd Archery Elk

NR - 47.8%

R - 34.1%

Keep in mind that 320 residents put in for 109 tags
and only a total of 23 non-residents put in for 11 total tags.
An unpopular non-resident unit can skew the % by a lot due to so few applicants.
Also keep in mind that with 0 non-resident tags your % would rise to only 37.5% to put it in perspective

Unit 2(B), 1st Archery Deer

NR - 76.5%

R - 52.9%

Once again 221 residents applied for 117 tags and only 17 non-residents put in for the 13 available tags. Same reasoning as before, the low number of NR applicants raises the %.
With no non resident tags the residents odds would rise to 58.8%


Just clearing it up so that everyone has a "clear picture" of the situation. Good luck in the draws everyone!
 
The sky is falling run! You all crack me up. SB196 still has to make it through two house committees, the house floor, and then probably back to the senate with the new changes. Plus it has to do all of this before the 19th. I think the odds of you all drawing your 1st choice elk tag this year are better than the odds of 196 making it to the governors desk.

Jason
 
>The sky is falling run!
>You all crack me up.
> SB196 still has to
>make it through two house
>committees, the house floor, and
>then probably back to the
>senate with the new changes.
> Plus it has to
>do all of this before
>the 19th. I think
>the odds of you all
>drawing your 1st choice elk
>tag this year are better
>than the odds of 196
>making it to the governors
>desk.
>
>Jason


Correction, one more committe. Passed Consumer Affairs this morning.
 
Sorry to say but I'm out. This year and diffinetly from now on if the changes go as planed.

Hope CO. has room for me.

A very sad Joe!

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you think their right"

-Joe E Sikora
 
I appreciate that jodog, good luck to you as well. If any of you all draw any hunts up here in the 2's, between myself, my Dad, and my buddies we have plenty of help to provide if you need it.

Hunt Hard. Shoot Straight. Kill Clean. Apologize to No One.
 
>>The sky is falling run!
>>You all crack me up.
>> SB196 still has to
>>make it through two house
>>committees, the house floor, and
>>then probably back to the
>>senate with the new changes.
>> Plus it has to
>>do all of this before
>>the 19th. I think
>>the odds of you all
>>drawing your 1st choice elk
>>tag this year are better
>>than the odds of 196
>>making it to the governors
>>desk.
>>
>>Jason
>
>
>Correction, one more committe. Passed Consumer
>Affairs this morning.


Well damn I'm glad I didn't bet on it. It just passed the house.

Jason
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-11 AT 02:29PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-11 AT 02:28?PM (MST)

with an amendmant, which means it now will have to go to senate to concur still might be close with less than 24 hours to go.
 
for all you that are putting in good luck!! i hope you draw out. any of you that draw the same unit as i do(if i draw) i hope you kill one just slightly smaller than mine.

For all you boycotting. GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!! don't let the door knob hit you in the ass on your way out.
 
Sorry guy?s you can't get rid of me that easy. I'm in. I'm at 29 years for Colo sheep.
I thrive on rejection. Like some others for 65$ I'll look at more than elk. Some DIY NR
Will be in the woods with a bow in their hands fall of 2012 if I don't put in it won't be me.
 
Wow Tomichi, 29 years for sheep. I hope you draw next time.
I'll be sending you my good mojo!

Good luck!

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you think their right"

-Joe E Sikora
 
>Since when did the NM forum
>become the cry baby forum?
> Why aren't you guys
>crying about other states?
>It will take me 15+
>years to draw my NR
>Arizona elk and deer hunts.
> I guess I should
>start crying on their page,
>maybe I will get some
>sympathy. I wont miss
>you or your money.
>So why don't you take
>your box of Kleenex, and
>start looking at Colorado.

Colorado??? I can draw my favorite deer tag every two to three years and I can buy a bull tag over the counter as a non-resident and harvest some horns and fill the freezer for a little more than a NM elk tag....Duh!!
 
284elk20hunt20063.jpg


I think I'll keep puting in for the draw.....looks like a great place to have the chance to hunt to some quality elk units...of course we only hunted three days....but it was one the the best hunts I've had the chance to be a part of....and the residents....well the treated us very well....i hope we have the opportunity to return to New Mexico.....so boys, take what you can get and be thankful!! New Mexico doesn't owe us anything!
 
>
284elk20hunt20063.jpg

>
>I think I'll keep puting in
>for the draw.....looks like a
>great place to have the
>chance to hunt to some
>quality elk units...of course we
>only hunted three days....but it
>was one the the best
>hunts I've had the chance
>to be a part of....and
>the residents....well the treated us
>very well....i hope we have
>the opportunity to return to
>New Mexico.....so boys, take what
>you can get and be
>thankful!! New Mexico doesn't owe
>us anything!

I'll keep trying myself AND I hope NM does not start a points system. Points are the pits. I'll take my chance in the lottery.

Nice bulls BTW
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-11 AT 11:13PM (MST)[p]As a resident I think most of us feel like the DIY NR got the shaft. At least the ones I hang around. I don't mind the increased resident permits but the ratio of how the NR tags were split up is nuts. I hope that all of you out-of-staters don't hold it against the rational NM hunters. It's a beautiful state with great hunting opportunities (if your lucky enough to draw) and pretty good people. Hope to see you all in the field.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-11
>AT 12:59?PM (MST)

>
>
>With the rude responses and the
>repeated "kiss off, we never
>wanted you in our state"
>comments and attitudes that have
>become commonplace in the New
>Mexico forum

Well said.

GrizlyHunter
 
Yep, I put my boys in and hope they draw.

Just wish with todays computers they would get the results out in weeks and not months........
 
>Yep, I put my boys in
>and hope they draw.
>
>Just wish with todays computers they
>would get the results out
>in weeks and not months........
>


gov't at work, thank gawd we don't all the gov't we pay for.
 
NMelkhunter:

I can't speak for everybody else...
However, for me I think NM residents have been taking it in the shorts for too long. 22% of the tags is a lot. I am a nonresident and think that is crazy compared to most states. That being said, I am a DIY guy and don't like what has happened to the nonresident DIY. I don't know many residents or nonresidents that are happy with the outfitter tags. I wish NM would have gone to a straight 10% like most of the other states and gotten rid of the outfitter draw. I have been lucky enough to hunt NM one time for archery elk. It was a great hunt and the residents I ran into were great. You do have a beautiful state and I will try and go back. I am not happy about the DIY guy getting the short end of the stick but I don't hold the residents who want to hunt in their own state accoutanable for that.

Good luck in the draws in whichever state you apply.
 

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