Muzzle loader Mountain lion found

NMPaul

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Six days later I found my Cougar that I shot during Muzzle loader season.

Monday night we were way up high on a mountain. About 9000 feet.

It was almost dark and there was a bugle way up the mountain, but, there was no way I was gonna make it up there with 10 minutes of shooting light.

I sat down in a dead fall of aspens and figured it would hurt nothing to throw out some cow calls. All of a sudden I see something slinking through the dead fall quakie logs. IT'S A CAT!!.

Bobcat?????? Nope. Big long tail just slipped over the last log. I slipped the ML up to my shoulder held right on him at about 30 yards BOOOMM!! Big cloud of smoke. It clears and the stupid cat is just staring at me. I knew a cat hit with a 250 grain slug would not just be staring at me with curiosity.

I was as low as whale feces. I grabbed my bag of ML junk from my pocket, shoved a swab in my mouth, and scramble to get it loaded. Like a monkey on a football if you know what I mean and have ever had to reload a ML in a hurry.

I got it loaded and looked back to where I last saw the cat. Of course it was gone. I almost turned that ML on myself knowing that it was dialed in 4" high at 100 yards, I had shot right over his back. The last place I saw him he was pointed up the hill. I went over to where he was and started climbing the steep log strewn hill. Had not gone 50 yards and saw a glimpse of him. Got the ML up, aimed low, center mass so no mistake and BOOM!
Big cloud of smoke.... it clears and no cat. I am praying that curiousity killed the cat and I get up there and see a dead cat.

Got up there, and next best thing. Stomach contents strewn around a 20 yard square area. It is not almost dark. I turn my head lamp on and find bits, chunks of stomach contents in a crazy large area. I assume that cat flipped throwing pieces of its last meal all over the place. I found several chunks of recently eaten meat (deer????) up to 10+ ounces. Big chunks. I could not determine a direction of the cat.

I looked till black dark, Zach was on the radio trying to figure out what had happened. After the 2nd shot I got on the radio and told him I just shot at a mountain lion. He was a half mile down the canyon.

I went out that night really bummed. I made the decision not to give up a day of my 5 day elk hunt.

The following night after Zach got out of school, we grabbed our elite mountain lion dog Winston (see picture) and hiked the mile up the mountain. We only had 40 minutes of daylight and Winston sorted out about 200 yards of the trail before he got distracted with bear and elk poop.

All week I have stressed over it. My wife had a rifle elk hunt the coming weekend and I did not want to sacrifice any of the time we had for that. Luckily Kim killed a nice 6x6 the first morning. Spent most of the rest of the day packing it out.

By now 6 days had elapsed, we finally could go back tonight.
Took Winston our elite mountain lion dog

Zach, Winston and I hiked up the mountain. We had radios and GPS s to grid the area. About 40 minutes into Zach yelled on the Radio he had found her.

They both smelled something in the woods, and Winston ran ahead, next thing Zach knew Winston was running for his life past him. Z said it was the funniest thing he ever saw. Winston got his courage up and found the cat. I found a couple more sheds while gridding.

I was stoked to find this cat. The pelt was ruined, when you flipped the cat, the underside was a horror.

It was also a gagger cutting the head, paws, tail and sex off.

Called the game warden and he is gonna come by and get me a pelt tag/validate my tag in a few days.
Probably saved me a couple grand having that skin ruined underneath. gonna boil the head and maybe do something with the paws and tail. They all seemed to be in pretty good shape, hair not slipping.

Awesome weekend. Found out we had a top of the line mountain lion dog. Wished we never cut his nuts off, because those hound guys would be paying some big bucks for some of his seed. May start renting him out by the hour.

This was how she landed. Good size cat. The 2nd night we hiked in I bet we walked past her by 10-20 yards. Dying cats picks the thickest, darkest area to die.

2012mountainliondeadpics001.jpg


2012MountainLion017.jpg


Winston is still a little scared.

2012MountainLion013.jpg


2012MountainLion009.jpg


2012MountainLion011.jpg


2012MountainLion002.jpg
 
THats very cool Paul. Sure wish you would have found her much earlier, a full mount or rug would be awesome in the house. Congrats on the kill and finding her after so many days.
 
Damn Paul you guys sure do get it done. If you and Zach ever need a protege to shadow you and learn the ways I am their man!
 
Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit screwed up? You shoot a lion then don't go look for it because you don't want to " waste a day of your elk hunt". You wounded an animal and left it to waste to go hunt another animal. Not cool. You should get a ticket for wasting it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-21-12 AT 11:27PM (MST)[p]It has been about 50 degrees at night. An animal left overnight in this weather will be spoiled.

If it is the meat you are concerned about, it was not going to be good the next day.

BTW, we did get out there the next day, but, were unable to locate it.

From what I can tell, NM does not require you to remove the meat of the mountain lion. They mention the game animals required.
That being said, if we had found the cat while it was still fresh I would have packed the meat out. I take the salvaging of all game meat very seriously, and anyone that knows me or has hunted with me could tell you that. I have an entire building devoted just to just processing game, in fact that is the majority of what we eat.

I assume that you eat coyotes, skunks and everything you have ever shot. Good for you.

As far as hoping I get a ticket for wasting??? Wasting what?? Love the "know it alls" that pipe of on these forums sometimes.

Sorry you feel that way.
 
azdogman, your read my response. What is your explanation for thinking I should get a ticket?
You pop off and now your to much of a coward to back it up?

I really want to hear why you think I should get a ticket, even though I broke no law, nor did I even come close to breaking any kind of law.

I killed a deer killing cat. In NM when you buy a cougar tag, they give you a second for free.

I would really like to know what your issue is. You dont know me at all, but, you come on here an take a shot at me.

I dont know you at all either, but, my first impression is that you either have a reading comprehension disability, or, your a troll, have a PETA member mentality, and that your one of those big brave internet guys, that say things on the internet, that you would not say in person.

Two questions. Have you ever shot a coyote and have you eaten every single one of them?
 
Good one Paul and crew. Should be a nice size skull for the collection. You still have a tag to go for the rug. Forget dogboy...
 
Paul don,t let a puke like that ruin your day. I dang sure don,t eat every varmint I kill.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-12 AT 09:17AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-12 AT 09:16?AM (MST)

Excellent Job Paul! One less deer killer in the woods. I say drop them all on sight and maybe the deer will come back. Case in point "Every hunter in the field should have a lion tag in their pocket" if they want to save deer and elk hunting in NM.

After thinking about the lion tag maybe we need to thin the Paul's and Zack's out cause they sure put things on the ground. Great job again Paul!
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-12 AT 09:30AM (MST)[p]I stand by my opinion.
Try this, change out the word lion for mule deer buck and see if you still think im wrong. A lion is a trophy and deserves the same respect any other big game animal does. Maybe you shouldnt get a ticket but IMO you didnt look for the animal enough to find it before it went to waste. Even if you didnt eat it you could have at least salvaged the cape. If not why even shoot it? I know i know one less deer killer. That sh!t dont fly with me though.
Sorry if i offended you, it wasnt meant as an attack on you as im sure your a great guy but i just feel this situation was not handled right. Just my thoughts, not trying to be an internet tough guy or call names (dog boy, puke) lol Come to AZ and we can see how well you can call me names with no front teeth :)
Anyways im sorry if i made you mad but thats just how i feel. I guided for lion hunts for years and i know these animals are trophy animals that many people would love to kill. I mean hell, you killed a lion without dogs. Not many people can say that.
Maybe your elk tag was more important to you but i just dont think the lion should have layed there to ruin while you finished your 2 elk hunts then looked for it.
Congrats on the lion non the less.
 
>Paul don,t let a puke like
>that ruin your day. I
>dang sure don,t eat every
>varmint I kill.


Thanks cbat. I would think every hunter would want predators legally killed at every opportunity.

Cats and coyotes have been hard on the deer and elk in unit 34. I have seen several cow elk kills by cats. One I walked up on within hours of it being killed and got the cat on my camera. So those that say Mountain lions do not kill elk, I know for a fact they do.

Not sure why people take pot shots. If they really had a concern about the legality of taking that cat they could have PM'd me.
 
Since I could not sleep at some stupid hour this morning I started reading the latest edition of American Hunter and there was a letter from a guy who has a friend that is a biologist for a state G&F department. He made a comment that I have always thougth about but never put to words. He said that as long as you made every possible attempt to find the animal you shot then you should not worry as that animal willl become energy and return to the ecosystem that it has taken from.
I thought it came at the right time after reading this story last night and then reading the BS this morning. Paul you did right.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-12
>AT 09:30?AM (MST)

>
>I stand by my opinion.
>Try this, change out the word
>lion for mule deer buck
>and see if you still
>think im wrong. A lion
>is a trophy and deserves
>the same respect any other
>big game animal does. Maybe
>you shouldnt get a ticket
>but IMO you didnt look
>for the animal enough to
>find it before it went
>to waste. Even if you
>didnt eat it you could
>have at least salvaged the
>cape. If not why even
>shoot it? I know
>i know one less deer
>killer. That sh!t dont fly
>with me though.
>Sorry if i offended you, it
>wasnt meant as an attack
>on you as im sure
>your a great guy but
>i just feel this situation
>was not handled right. Just
>my thoughts, not trying to
>be an internet tough guy
>or call names (dog boy,
>puke) lol Come to
>AZ and we can see
>how well you can call
>me names with no front
>teeth :)
>Anyways im sorry if i made
>you mad but thats just
>how i feel. I guided
>for lion hunts for years
>and i know these animals
>are trophy animals that many
>people would love to kill.
>I mean hell, you killed
>a lion without dogs. Not
>many people can say that.
>
>Maybe your elk tag was more
>important to you but i
>just dont think the lion
>should have layed there to
>ruin while you finished your
>2 elk hunts then looked
>for it.
>Congrats on the lion non the
>less.


Azdogman, I do not think we are polar opposites, but, we definetly disagree on a few things.

Personally, I do not like someone posting that I should get a ticket for something I did 100% legally, and, I feel perfectly fine about it. That right there, any reasonable person would regret doing.


If you had a concern about what I did you could have PM'd me.

Original question stands. Do you shoot coyotes and do you eat them?

Why is a cat more worthy than a coyote? (Yea a cat is way cooler and seen less often, but, there is no requirement to keep the meat).

BTW, I have eaten bobcat. It was a lot like a pork loin and I would have kept every bit of the cat, and tried curing the ham of it as I have heard that is worth doing.

To me that is a PETA/hypocritical mentality.

If you read the original post I was looking for him till black dark the first night. Not sure if you have ever tried to track trace blood in the dark, in fallen leaves, but, it was not happening. We did go back the next night but ran into the same problem it getting dark before we could work it out. We came within 10-15 yards of him that night.

There is no requirement to cape and mount cougars. Personally, I would rather not spend 3K + to have it done. However, if we had found him whole, I bet my wife would have insisted.

You want to stand by your comments suggesting I get a ticket then I will stand by mine. As far as insinuating knocking out my teeth, well, if I am going to say that to someone, I will be looking in them in the eye, not typing it on a computer.

Personally, I would prefer both of our arguments are deleted, but, if you like what you said, I will not use my deleting abilities to delete it.
 
Agree with this post. Apology to AZdogman for the slur. But as you stated,he did find it. And it is a trophy that Paul will remember. Just not the rug.
 
AZdogman, one more thing.

You stated you did not think I looked hard enough for it.

Were you there?? Do you know how hard I looked? We were over a mile as a crow flies up one of the steepest thickest mountains in our unit. We did not drive, ride horses, we hiked each and every time. Most people would not even go up there.

You see those sheds we found looking up there?

This late in the year the only sheds left are those that are places people do not go. This is almost an hour drive away and another hour hike to get there, lots of places pulling yourself up with bushes etc...
If your finding sheds this time of the year your working.

We covered a lot of ground each of the 3 times we went up there. Lots of sweat.

Dont talk about something you do not know anything about.
 
Congrats Paul,
happy you were able to recover her, I give much props for the effort in getting into that country alone! post some pics of the skull when you get a chance.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-12 AT 07:59PM (MST)[p]azdogman, you are not the only one who thinks this is a little bit screwed up. That is the first thing I thought when reading the story.

Had it been the same story, except about a deer or elk instead of a lion, plenty of people on here would have raked him over the coals for not going back to look for it first thing the next morning. The majority of the deer and elk hunting crowd gives no respect to lions and thinks they should all be killed by any means possible. Not a very good attitude to have for one of the top big game animals we have to hunt here in NM.


BTW Congratulations Paul, and way to stick with it and eventually find it. Too bad you couldn't find it that first night. In my opinion lion meat is the best of the wild game in NM. Even better than oryx.
 
I don't get why people are jumping all over Azdogman. After reading the post above I was confused at why it was mentioned on 2 different occasions that you didn't want to miss out on your elk hunt, so you basically neglected the downed cat. Yeah, I wasn't there and didn't see your efforts in looking, but maybe a little more care should be taken in your stories, so that confusions like this don't take place. Every downed game animal should be treated with respect in being taken, and retrieved in a timely manner. No disrespect to anyone, I just think the post could have been better written. JMO
 
No confusion. He stated he looked for it the night he shot it. He shot it right before dark. And he looked for it for 40 min the next evening. Then not again for 6 days after the elk hunts were over. Sorry that I thought this was wrong. Nice to see I'm not the only one
 
>I don't get why people are
>jumping all over Azdogman.
>After reading the post above
>I was confused at why
>it was mentioned on 2
>different occasions that you didn't
>want to miss out on
>your elk hunt, so you
>basically neglected the downed cat.
> Yeah, I wasn't there
>and didn't see your efforts
>in looking, but maybe a
>little more care should be
>taken in your stories, so
>that confusions like this don't
>take place. Every downed
>game animal should be treated
>with respect in being taken,
>and retrieved in a timely
>manner. No disrespect to
>anyone, I just think the
>post could have been better
>written. JMO


Bayside, I will ask you the same question.

Have you ever shot a coyote?
Have you found and eaten every single one of them?

Looking forward to hearing your answer.
 
Have you ever obtained a tag for a coyote? Where I'm at you don't need a tag, in fact, they pay you to kill them. I don't think that you are comparing apples to apples.
 
>Have you ever obtained a tag
>for a coyote? Where
>I'm at you don't need
>a tag, in fact, they
>pay you to kill them.
> I don't think that
>you are comparing apples to
>apples.



So a piece of paper somehow changes the value and importance of an animals life?

In CA you cant hunt lions at all. In that case they must be right up there with a bald eagle. Cross the border and you can. Some legislaters that has never spent a minute in the wild helped decide that for you. I will follow their stupid rules, but, that does not mean that I am a sheep and will automatically accept their flawed belief system.

Bayside, we can go round and round regarding the value of one animals life compared to anothers. I guarantee that if you are intellectually honest it is impossible to defend why a lion should be eaten or mounted and a coyote should not.

Bottom line is that I followed the law.

I completely understand if some guys hold a mountain lion to a higher standard due respect for hunting it in the past. I personally see it as a deer/elk killer.

Myself and Azdogman have had our disagreement, but, have discussed it in PMs and we understand each others point of view and I think we are cool with each other.



If the lion was fresh dead, I know that I would have eaten every reasonably edible part. Processing game is one of my passions. I have heard that dry cured cat leg (similar to proscuito) is a delicacy. I enjoy working with meat and have basically a proffesional butcher shop that i have built just for my own personal use.
Also, I know my wife would have made me get a full size mount ($3500????), not that important to me.

I do not like when people try to force their values on me, espescially when they say things like I should get a ticket or I wasted game. I guarantee you that I take more of the meat out of the woods than 90% of the hunters when I dress an animal. I take extra time to make sure no meat is wasted and that it stays clean. I see 20-30 animals taken out of the field or more every year and I know this to be an absolute fact.

If I was in CA I would not have hunted cougars at all. In UT, ID, CO or anywhere else I would have followed the rules of that state. Killing a frikking cat is not important enough to me to even consider bending a rule.

However, if I kill a cat in a completely legal fashion in the state I am in, I sure the hell do not want to hear a bunch of self riteous BS from arm chair quarter backs about it.

I get, that someone could have a love affair with mounain lions. I DO NOT. I do not want someone forcing their fairy tale beliefs on me.
 
Way to go Paul! I commend you for your perseverence in even going back to look. I agree with most on here,shoot everyone of those game killing machines.
 
I know you're a respected MMer, and that's great. I'm not attacking you, I simply stated my opinions. My comments have nothing to do with the meat. If you have a deer and an elk tag and do the same thing in your story, but instead of shooting a lion, you shot a deer, everyones reaction would be different Why? Because the lions kill all the deer and people want more deer. Yes you followed the law, I never accused you of not following the law. Your story how it was written would give fuel to anti-hunters, who already think we don't respect animals enough. That's all I'm saying. It's strictly a perception given off by your story.
 
Don't say I'm trying to force my values on you either. I'm stating opinions and certainly not getting as worked up about this as you seem to be. PM me if you'd like and we can chat a little more.
 
>I know you're a respected MMer,
>and that's great. I'm
>not attacking you, I simply
>stated my opinions. My
>comments have nothing to do
>with the meat. If
>you have a deer and
>an elk tag and do
>the same thing in your
>story, but instead of shooting
>a lion, you shot a
>deer, everyones reaction would be
>different Why? Because the
>lions kill all the deer
>and people want more deer.
> Yes you followed the
>law, I never accused you
>of not following the law.
>Your story how it was
>written would give fuel to
>anti-hunters, who already think we
>don't respect animals enough.
>That's all I'm saying.
>It's strictly a perception given
>off by your story.

Bayside, if it is not about the meat, what is it about??

I cant imagine that people/non hunters would think a hunter is obligated to have taxidermy work done.

I really do not think I am over reacting. The comment was made that I should get a ticket. I know that was resolved with AZdogman, but, what did I do wrong?

If your saying it is not about the meat, was I supposed to find it just to look at it? Take a picture? Say a prayer over it? (ok I am now being sarcastic, just trying to keep it lite)

Bayside, I can tell you are not trying to be antagonistic, but, I can see the whole thing bothers you. I am just asking for you to think it all the way through before you have ill thoughts about me.

I did feel it was important to find the cat at some point though it would not be easy. I felt, that it should be tagged, reported and go towards the quota, also, I wanted some type of physical memory besides pictures.

I do really nice Euro mounts, so I am doing the skull. The top side of the cat was in good shape, I kept all the legs from the 2nd joint up, the tail and the head. I spoke to my taxidermist and he is gonna try to do something with the tail, and give me some tips on doing just the bones of the foot as a euro.

As mentioned before, I understand the higher level that people place on mountain lions in the pecking order of animal life, I just do not share it to the same degree.




***********************************

Margaret Thatcher: "The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money."


"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - Unknown
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-12 AT 12:18PM (MST)[p]Hey Paul,
I agree with the majority here. You did everything legally. You did your best to find the cat that night and then knowing the meat would be bad, you made the decision to finish your elk hunt out which I would totally agree with. You even said you were totally "bummed" about not finding the cat that night which shows to me that you cared about the animals life and that you felt bad the shot wasn't as good as you would have liked. So I see nothing wrong with what you did.

So, not to hyjack the thread but I'm kind of interested about everyone's opinion on leaving an animal overnight. I see all the time on outdoor shows where a guy will shoot an animal(normally an elk) right at dark and then not go and retrieve it till the next day. Isn't the meat ruined by then? Especially on these early rut hunts? It just amazes me how often I see this and the guys the next day are all high fives and smiles when they should be more upset that this huge animal is wasted.

Travis
 
Travis, funny that you bring that up.

Last shooting light yesterday my neighbor shot a really good bull (will try to post some pics later) and got ahold of me to help him get it. I was able to get my trailer to it and bring it back all the way whole.
I got it skinned, gutted, head removed, hoisted, totally cleaned and washed down with cold water last night. This morning when I went to quarter it out to put it in my cooler it was still warm between the shoulder blades. I made mention to my neighbor about it, and I was surprised. The meat is gonna be great because we got it in and handled quickly, however, if that big bodied bull laid out all night not gutted and not skinned I would guess the meat would be dull colored, sticky and certainly not at its optimum.

Sometimes you have no choice, but, a rifle shot animal that you feel good about the shot, I would try to find it that night.

Archery??

Bob, lost 57 lbs from april to sept, then elk season started and I have been scouting, shed hunting, hiking and packing elk. I decided I could eat more, and have gained 5 lbs back since then. Guess I am destined to have to starve.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-12 AT 03:32PM (MST)[p]I had a comment but erased it because its none of my business.
 
I read it, and had a sarcastic comment all primed, but.... fair enough.
Sending you a pm, because just curious.
 
WOW that was some read.... Some people just don't get it! Paul
Congrats on a nice cat,you did nothing wrong and more important at least to me you saved a lot of deer/elk.We have way to many lions in this state!

CC
 
>LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-12
>AT 12:18?PM (MST)

>
>Hey Paul,
>I agree with the majority here.
>You did everything legally.
>You did your best to
>find the cat that night
>and then knowing the meat
>would be bad, you made
>the decision to finish your
>elk hunt out which I
>would totally agree with.
>You even said you were
>totally "bummed" about not finding
>the cat that night which
>shows to me that you
>cared about the animals life
>and that you felt bad
>the shot wasn't as good
>as you would have liked.
>So I see nothing wrong
>with what you did.
>
>So, not to hyjack the thread
>but I'm kind of interested
>about everyone's opinion on leaving
>an animal overnight. I
>see all the time on
>outdoor shows where a guy
>will shoot an animal(normally an
>elk) right at dark and
>then not go and retrieve
>it till the next day.
> Isn't the meat ruined
>by then? Especially on
>these early rut hunts?
>It just amazes me how
>often I see this and
>the guys the next day
>are all high fives and
>smiles when they should be
>more upset that this huge
>animal is wasted.
>
>Travis


I would never leave a rifle shot animal all night no matter the temp. You need to get the hide off and guts out asap so the meat is good. I read somewhere the other day in one of my A&P books that as soon as you die you start to leak out all of your intestional juices. I am certain that animals are the same, and that is one way to ruin meat.
On the youth hunt a few weeks back my cousin shot a bull at last light and we spent nearly the entire night getting him packed out. We did not make it back to camp till 0300 after getting up at 0530 the morning before. These are just a few of the sacrifices we must make as a hunter.
 
>WOW that was some read.... Some
>people just don't get it!
>Paul
>Congrats on a nice cat,you did
>nothing wrong and more important
>at least to me you
>saved a lot of deer/elk.We
>have way to many lions
>in this state!
>
>CC


What is it that we don't get?
 
I deleted the last 2 posts because of name calling. Lets keep it civil.
I would have edited some prior name calling, but, cannot do it after 300 minutes.
Lets just take it down a notch.
 
I don't see any wrong doing in this instance whatsoever. I do appreciate the story, the pictures and the honesty of the OP.

I personally do not value a lion much over a coyote other than an appreciation for the difficulty in the hunt and the expenses assocaited with the tags and potential taxidermy stuff.

I have no interest in hunting treed cats or anything other than birds with dogs.

And I have absolutely no interest in the lion's meat or even it's pelt really. I am not interested in cat or dog meat. Not saying I wouldn't try it if someone like Paul prepared it.

I have yet to go out of my way to hunt cats. However, if I have a coinciding hunt and legally tag a cat, the other other animal will get my prioroty over the cat...mostly because I will have more of an interest in the meat and/or trophy of the other animal.

That's my $0.02. I'm not saying anybody else is right or wrong, not dooming all cats to death, but just stating my personal opinion on the subject...however worthless that may be.


By the way, good job taking a cat 1-on-1 with a smokepole Paul. Obviously, it didn't work out exactly as you would have liked it to, but I appreciate the honesty in your story and the fact that you did eventually recover it and go thru the proper channels to tag it.
 
Glad to see one less cat out there and was done following the rules. A few cats are probably a good thing. Too many right now in my opinion. Coues population is down.
 
the only way id eat a lion or bear is if i was starving. just like eating a dog. id just assume shoot them things and leave them lay anyway.
 
I'm the first to admit I wasn't there and therefore can't fully comprehend the situation.

I've been blessed with one successful lion hunt and for the record LION MEAT IS ABOUT THE BEST TASTING GAME MEAT IN NM! I'd put it up against oryx or elk any day.

That said, to me it is a travesty that all of the meat went to waste. Does all meat from an animal left overnight and not recovered in 50-degree temps go to waste? I killed a bull in AZ last fall just at dark. Nighttime temps were probably only 60 (very warm). I recovered him about 11am next morning after tricky blood trail with him doubling back on himself. He was laying in direct sun. I lost some meat from one of the hams on the downward side, but beyond that all meat good. So I have to think that most/all of lion meat would have still been fine.

I WOULD HAVE SACRIFICED MY ELK HUNT TO SEARCH FOR LION. That's me, not all feel the same. I personally would not feel this hunt to have been a success worth sharing publicly.

I echo the comment "replace the word lion with elk or deer and then see how the story reads".

Sorry things didn't work out better for you finding the lion, Paul.

Instead of bashing each other and calling names, let's try to be constructive and learn from this incident in order to improve the outcome in future situations we may all be faced with.

Carl
 
Smarbs,

I would love to see you retrieve an animal 6 days after shooting it and salvage the meat. that is completely obsurd. Some of the posts on this topic is what gives forums like this a bad name. Any hunter has had situations which dont occur Ideally. GOOD LION PAUL. Kudos to you for sharing this story, this is why I dont share my stories on here anymore. Allows to many people to sound off on a topic they dont deserve to talk about. Instead of just congratulating you on your successes, people have to ridicule and criticize your accomplishments. Also to many people see your successes on this site and think they can have the same luck so they fill you out for hunting info and it snowballs and makes it virutally impossible to draw out.

my venting session is done.
 
Smarba, if I never found the cat I would have considered it a success. A big success.

I knew he was gonna die by the amount of junk on the ground. I tooks out the most efficient deer killer out there.

NM rules do not even require bringing in the meat, as mentioned before I would have just because processing and eating game meat is a important part of the hunt to me.

Yea, I would have like to find it that night just to try the meat. I have had bobcat and it was good. Similar to pork loin.

I consider a cat to be a predator and not a game animal. I followed all the rules required. I bought a tag, I tried very hard to find it that night and the next night.

Also, I forgot to mention previously that I called everyone I knew with hounds (3 different guys) to come out and find it for me. They all had obligations. I even brought some of the stomach contents out in a zip lock bag( still in the refrig my wife is gonna kill me if I do not throw them away soon) so that I could give them to the hound guys to track. I had the gps coordinates also.
None of the guys could come out. That is why we went again that next night.

I have no regrets except not shooting a better bull on my ML hunt.

I have mentioned the coyote comparison several times now in my posts. Nobody wants to go there. They know that common sense does not allow them to call a cat more important than a coyote. To argue that a cat is more important would be intellectually dishonest and most see it before they go down that road.

I know that most shoot a coyote and most do not even walk up to it. I do that myself if it is in the summer, same with skunks.

The euro of the skull has come out perfect as did the bear skull I got this year without dogs. I would like to find a unique was to display them together, because to take a lion and a bear with out dogs in the same year may never happen for me again. I also have the pelt tags from G&F that I may include in the display just for the people overly concerned about lions.
 
All: The responses are the reason I hardly bother to post here. Most don't read the details or misunderstand.

I never said meat after 6-days would be good - of course it wouldnt! But a comment was made that because it had to be left overnight (implying 1 night) the meat wouldn't be any good anyway. I was simply disagreeing with that statement, based on my own experience.

I also stated that because I wasn't there it was difficult to comment, not knowing all of the details.

Finally I stated that PERSONALLY I would feel badly if I had been unable to recover the lion and would have sacrificed my elk hunt as necessary to try and find it, or not pulled the trigger in the first place. This simply my feeling regarding the statement of Paul not wanting to lose any of his elk hunting time. Not judging, just saying I would have done things differently. Never implied that Paul did anything illegal or one way is better than the other.

IMO it is a disservice for NM to not require saving lion meat just like any other game animal. It truly is that good.
 
smarba, I am not arguing with you and I do understand others holding mountain lions in higher regards than I do.

I hate to hear you would let one walk if you had a tag in your pocket.
there is a reason that NM gives you 2 tags and a year round season when you buy your tag. They are putting the hurt on ungulates and need to be put in check.

I am cool with your comments, I do not think your attacking me or what I did, just saying you have a different perspective.

The meat may have been good the next morning on that small of animal.... maybe... We did go the next night, and I did try hard to find a dog guy to go look. I am satisfied with my choices and having the skull.
I am even buying a new gun to keep in my pack while scouting and shed hunting in case the opportunity ever arises again.
 
I think people on TV shows are leaving big deer overnight a lot because they don't want to risk bumping them and not being able to find that big set of antlers. (I don't condone that reasoning)

I did it once (not cause the deer was big, but just because I couldn't find it in the dark). It was a neck shot with a bow. I found the deer after about an hour of trailing the next morning and it was innedible. My buddy shot a deer this year with his bow and left it over night. He stated what I had experienced (worst stench you can imagine).

I call BS on a bull elk being left overnight at 60 degrees and being edible. I don't think that would work if it got down to 30 degrees. My dad lost neck meat on a bull because he didn't open up/skin the neck over night. It was shot at dusk and gutted and propped open to allow it to cool, then retrieved the next morning when it was hung and skinned. It got down to about 30 that night.

Paul,
your original post did bother me and I wisely bit my tongue until now...I am not wise anylonger.

I am sure that you looked adequately and did nothing illegal. I am certain that I would not be able to find a gut shot cat, or anything for that matter.

I was a little bothered by the fact that you made it sound like you didn't want to waste time looking for it when you had an elk tag...and then your wife's elk tag the next week even came first.

It is not the same as shooting and leaving a coyote. You are required to tag and bring the cat to game and fish to have it tagged by them. No real difference than the requirement to tag your elk and bring out all edible portions.

This scenerio, the way I see it, is the same as having a deer and elk tag. Wounding one that you cant find and then giving up to continue hunting the other one...or even to continue to attempt to fill both tags. Nothing really wrong with that...once you realize your are not going to be able to find the wounded animal, which is where you were. We don't know how hard you looked, only that you told us that you prioritized the elk hunt, and the next elk hunt over looking for the cat. I don't even really care how hard you looked for the cat...it was clearly hit in a manner that would take hours for it to die so I wouldn't have held out any hope of finding it.

To me Cat=Elk=Deer and all are animals that require tagging and removal from the field. Coyotes can be shot and left....thats just the regs.

Paul, I know you did things correctly. I know you are an impressively successful hunter. I know you are probably more ethical than me. First post still kindof bugged me. I thinks its just semantics though.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-12 AT 05:21PM (MST)[p]Your last sentence says it all...it's just semantics.

For me: Cat or Dog < Elk or Deer, no matter what anyone else says. Trying to push your view in a "shame on you" sort of way does not sit well with me.

ps. I have also left gutted elk over night on September bow hunts and recovered all of the meat.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-12 AT 08:50PM (MST)[p]Wow, Hot Topic :)

Would've hoped it was such for other reasons, but alas! apparently not...

Paul, ya done fine...I don't hunt lions with dogs, but if I ever get the chance to LEGALLY hose a cougar on one of my primary hunts (as is finely illustrated here), I will be most happy to fulfill that obligation...I have encountered lions on three occasions during muzzleloader deer, and archery elk seasons and couldn't kill them because the old season wasn't open...the new year round double tag provision is excellent, Clownville finally made a decent decision

If I ever kill a lion, I will eat it, no problems with that...but I would NEVER consider remorse if the meat were somehow lost.

Predators have their place, absolutely...just keep in mind that in the modern era of human managed wildlife resources, predators are a liability...lions, wolves, coyotes, etc. don't fund ungulate wildlife programs; they generally COST the state revenue, erstwhile directly undermining ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING hunters' opportunity

In this day of NM's borderline mule deer and Desert Sheep populations, lion predation is a significant factor indeed

Well Done Pablo
 
>I was a little bothered by
>the fact that you made
>it sound like you didn't
>want to waste time looking
>for it when you had
>an elk tag...and then your
>wife's elk tag the next
>week even came first.
>
>It is not the same as
>shooting and leaving a coyote.
> You are required to
>tag and bring the cat
>to game and fish to
>have it tagged by them.
> No real difference than
>the requirement to tag your
>elk and bring out all
>edible portions.
>
>This scenerio, the way I see
>it, is the same as
>having a deer and elk
>tag. Wounding one that
>you cant find and then
>giving up to continue hunting
>the other one...or even to
>continue to attempt to fill
>both tags.

Consider one thing. I knew this cat was dead by the amount of stomach contents left around that night. No doubt in my mind.

Did all that was possible that night. That night I also called hound guys to go look for it the next day. Thought a guaranteed find would be good for some young hounds. That did not work out.

Once it got overnight with the warm temps I considered meat to not be optimum. Edible? Maybe.

I knew I was gonna go back and try to find this cat. Smell is how we found it. May not have found it a couple days later. Most likely needed to ripen a little.

So I did get it tagged and where I had to hike back into to find it was not where I could even get most people to go into. Most people if I pointed to the top of a mountain and say we were going hunting there they would say no way.
I went there two times to find it.

What is funny is that I was in correspondance with the G&F guy and he was fine with it. In fact when I got my Pelt tag there were 2 G&F guys there and they hoped I got lucky and found another.

I think the issue people have is that it was a cougar. How bout dove hunting. How many hours or miles would you hike to recover a dove you were pretty sure you hit? Doubt, most people would have worked as hard as my son and I did to find it.

Technically I could have kept hunting a cougar because I had a second tag in my pocket.
 
Don't lose any sleep trying to justify yourself on this site, there will always be people on this site that could point out the million things that you should have done. So many people like the idea of hunting and really just cant hack the work and commitment it takes to do that. Rather they would just want to get on here and have someone spoon feed them where to go. This is exactly why I don't share anything on here anymore. You have had hundreds of successful hunts and stories on here and helped no telling how many people that probably did nothing to deserve such valuable information, yet people still have the juevos to tell you you were in the wrong??? This is getting to liberal in my book. "ya win some, you lose some, and some days it rains. My advice is to keep your hunting successes and secret spots to you and your family and friends. I would have loved to share my 200" buck that I killed with my smoke pole with everyone, but after reading this post I don't think some people could hack the story.
 
bloodhoundbro. I want to see pics of a 200" buck. NM?? Dont have to post a story, though it is always nice to have.
 
Don't blame ya one bit Blood...we killed a few top rams so far this year, but I would no longer EVER consider putting them up on here...it ain't worth the hassle, too many internet frikken Gapers around here

You can always send me an email with pics however, and I will gladly return in kind ;)

I like Venados Dos Centos...and I'll send ya some Borregos Mas Grandes :)
 
Way to go on the cat! Don't listen to the bleeding hearts. You can get two cat tags over the counter every year. It may be ten years before you get another rifle elk tag (thanks to the out of state hippies who constantly ##### in our forum). Don't let it get to you.
 
Paul,

I agree with your last post 100% and wasn't contesting any of that. You certainly did more than I would have. Killing a cat is quite impressive. I don't put them in a different category, though I will probably never get one because that is clearly the most difficult game to take in this state for sure.
 
Guys, please post up your success pics...even if you don't post the story for obvious reasons. Many of us sincerely appreciate the pics.


Personally, I appreciate Paul's honesty in his story. Most hunts do not go smooth and easy...according to a plan. In fact, I've been hunting for over 20 years and can only think of 2 hutns that worked out smoothly as planned.

There's always mistakes to be made and learned from, as well as stories of the one that got away. That's just the reality of the hunt. People that can't deal with it live their sheltered lives and may never understand the realities of dealing with the animals (both wild and domestic).
 
With the exception of the post saying I should have got a ticket (and I think he withdrew that sentiment), I have not had a problem with the negative posts on this.
I do not think some of these postings have been thought through prior to posting, but, they have all been civil and maybe some may look at it a little differently now.

Hunting is not predictable and that is what makes it such a rush. If you want predictable, take up golf.
 
Paul, have you seen my golf game?

Anything but predictable.

Now I'm offended... ;-)

Bytheway, good job on the cat. Anyone that has deer hunted this state recently should realize that we can do with a few less cats around here. Every hunter should buy an over-the-counter cougar tag before going into the field for other hunts, just in case they get the opportunity. It's a tragedy a cougar zone quota goes unfilled in this state...
 

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