Managing For Mature Bucks Or More Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18 AT 03:41PM (MST)[p]2017 BEAVER UNIT #22 HARVEST DATA
Archery tags 609
Any weapon tags 1404
Muzzleloader tags 580
Youth tags 352
Dedicated hunter tags 427
TOTAL 3386 tags issued
ACTUAL HUNTERS AFIELD 3111
TOTAL HARVEST 1329 BUCKS HARVESTED

According to the math, that is a 42% success rate overall.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18 AT 05:52PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18 AT 05:25?PM (MST)

>
97055screenshot20181202141504adobeacrobat.jpg

>
>According to their "5 year plan
>plan", the goal is 13000
>wintering deer on the unit
>as long as the habitat
>can handle it.

3,000 is a TYPO!! It should be 13,000 per the unit plan you just posted, and the DWR's 2016 and 2017 RAC and Wildlife Board Meeting packet antlerless permit recommendations. https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac/2016-04_rac_packet.pdf
https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac/2017-04_rac_packet.pdf

Note, those packets also show the population models for 2013 (12,400), 2014 (13,800), 2015 (14,400), and 2016 (14,700).

Edited: The links to the DWR website indicate the packets have been deleted or moved, so you'll have to Google them directly.

Edited again: Sorry that I mistyped the links. They should work now. (TYPO's!!! Everybody does them!)
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18 AT 06:39PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18
>AT 05:52?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18
>AT 05:25?PM (MST)
>
>>
97055screenshot20181202141504adobeacrobat.jpg

>>
>>According to their "5 year plan
>>plan", the goal is 13000
>>wintering deer on the unit
>>as long as the habitat
>>can handle it.
>
>3,000 is a TYPO!! It should
>be 13,000 per the unit
>plan you just posted, and
>the DWR's 2016 and 2017
>RAC and Wildlife Board Meeting
>packet antlerless permit recommendations. https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac/2016-04_rac_packet.pdf
>
>https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac/2017-04_rac_packet.pdf
>
>Note, those packets also show the
>population models for 2013 (12,400),
>2014 (13,800), 2015 (14,400), and
>2016 (14,700).
>
>Edited: The links to the DWR
>website indicate the packets have
>been deleted or moved, so
>you'll have to Google them
>directly.
>
>Edited again: Sorry that I mistyped
>the links. They should work
>now. (TYPO's!!! Everybody does them!)
>

Definitely hoped 3000 was a typo when the objective is 13000, not to mention a 10,000 loss in a couple years would be catastrophic.
But that is total deer numbers collectively.
 
>Slam,
>And what is the current number
>of deer claimed by the
>DWR on the Beaver?


Would You Believe it _73?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>Bess that's why I ask what
>the claim was, not
>the actual number.


I have researched it a few times and can only see their "objective 5 year plan" to have 13000 head on the Beaver unit, no current estimates that I can find.
 
I can attest that there is not even remotely close to 13000 deer on unit 22. If there are, they are extremely concentrated into one plague like and well hidden area!
 
>I can attest that there is
>not even remotely close to
>13000 deer on unit 22.
>If there are, they are
>extremely concentrated into one plague
>like and well hidden area!
>

Hey PUNK!

They're gonna Tell Us We Need Glasses!

And I'll Damn sure start wearing them if it will Help Me See what Ain't There!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18 AT 10:03PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18 AT 09:56?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18 AT 09:54?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-18 AT 09:34?PM (MST)

>>Bess that's why I ask what
>>the claim was, not
>>the actual number.
>
>
>I have researched it a few
>times and can only see
>their "objective 5 year plan"
>to have 13000 head on
>the Beaver unit, no current
>estimates that I can find.
>

Edited to 2018 update.
https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac/2018-03_rac_packet.pdf (13,950 for 2017)
 
>>Bess that's why I ask what
>>the claim was, not
>>the actual number.
>
>
>I have researched it a few
>times and can only see
>their "objective 5 year plan"
>to have 13000 head on
>the Beaver unit, no current
>estimates that I can find.
>


Look under "big game annual reports"
pg. 36

Beaver herd #s

2007- 10,200
2008- 8,000
2009- 11,000
2010- 10,900
2011- 11,000
2012- 15,000
2013- 12,400
2014- 13,800
2015- 14,400
2016- 14,700

Beaver buck/ doe ratio

2009- 22/100
2010- 18/100
2011- 16/100
2012- 16/100
2013- 18/100
2014- 19/100
2015- 22/100
2016- 25/100








see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
So 14,700 head just two years ago which according to their goals is well over, therefore they issue more tags to decrease total numbers.

If there are approximately 14,000 deer on that unit now, I'd have hated hunting it in 2008 when there were only 8000.

Guess me and the other 50 or so "well seasoned Beaver hunters" i spoke with on the mountain this fall better trade or high dollar optics in on golf clubs!
 
Slamdunk you said... "I can attest that there is not even remotely close to 13000 deer on unit 22. If there are, they are extremely concentrated into one plague like and well hidden area!"

So I reached out to a friend that also hunted the Beaver unit this year during the rifle season.
He doesn't follow this forum and I didn't say anything about this thread.
I simply asked him how was his hunt on the Beaver and did he see many bucks in general.

Here's his response.. "It was ok. I missed a 4x4 on the third day. There was tons of two points and spikes that I passed on. My dad ended up taking a forkie on the last day to take home some meat. Time to look into a new area to hunt."

So he may not have seen a lot a big bucks but his story is
a little different than what your trying to sell.

on another note: I do like your idea of splitting the unit in two and having a west and east sub-unit.







see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
>Slamdunk you said... "I can
>attest that there is not
>even remotely close to 13000
>deer on unit 22. If
>there are, they are extremely
>concentrated into one plague like
>and well hidden area!"
>
>So I reached out to a
>friend that also hunted the
>Beaver unit this year during
>the rifle season.
>He doesn't follow this forum and
>I didn't say anything about
>this thread.
>I simply asked him how was
>his hunt on the Beaver
>and did he see many
>bucks in general.
>
>Here's his response.. "It was ok.
>I missed a 4x4 on
>the third day. There was
>tons of two points and
>spikes that I passed on.
>My dad ended up taking
>a forkie on the last
>day to take home some
>meat. Time to look into
>a new area to hunt."
>
>
>So he may not have seen
>a lot a big bucks
>but his story is
>a little different than what your
>trying to sell.
>
>on another note: I do like
>your idea of splitting the
>unit in two and having
>a west and east sub-unit.
>

I spent 80% of my time on the north end, both scouting prior to the hunt, then 7 consecutive days during the muzzy hunt.
The area I was in has in years past been known to hold excellent numbers of deer and some great bucks.
The other 20% of my time was spreading my wings out of frustration and looking up in the highest country, then to the lowest.
I spoke with hunters in every area I ventured into, all shared the same frustration and concerns about the unit.
We saw young bucks yes, but there were also three trips out of camp in both morning and evening hunts where we never saw even a single doe.
I spent several hours on numerous days in an area I had to hike out to that overlooks thousands of acres of mid mountain land riddled with oak, sage, bitter brush and new habitat from the 2010 burns and couldn't turn up a single deer through my Leica spotter and Zeiss glasses. This particular area "USED" to hold plenty of healthy deer numbers just a few short years as go.

So if the numbers haven't changed and the herd sizes are above objective, where would they have moved too and more importantly.....why?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-18 AT 05:37AM (MST)[p]>>Slamdunk you said... "I can
>>attest that there is not
>>even remotely close to 13000
>>deer on unit 22. If
>>there are, they are extremely
>>concentrated into one plague like
>>and well hidden area!"
>>
>>So I reached out to a
>>friend that also hunted the
>>Beaver unit this year during
>>the rifle season.
>>He doesn't follow this forum and
>>I didn't say anything about
>>this thread.
>>I simply asked him how was
>>his hunt on the Beaver
>>and did he see many
>>bucks in general.
>>
>>Here's his response.. "It was ok.
>>I missed a 4x4 on
>>the third day. There was
>>tons of two points and
>>spikes that I passed on.
>>My dad ended up taking
>>a forkie on the last
>>day to take home some
>>meat. Time to look into
>>a new area to hunt."
>>
>>
>>So he may not have seen
>>a lot a big bucks
>>but his story is
>>a little different than what your
>>trying to sell.
>>
>>on another note: I do like
>>your idea of splitting the
>>unit in two and having
>>a west and east sub-unit.
>>
>
>I spent 80% of my time
>on the north end, both
>scouting prior to the hunt,
>then 7 consecutive days during
>the muzzy hunt.
>The area I was in has
>in years past been known
>to hold excellent numbers of
>deer and some great bucks.
>
>The other 20% of my time
>was spreading my wings out
>of frustration and looking up
>in the highest country, then
>to the lowest.
>I spoke with hunters in every
>area I ventured into, all
>shared the same frustration and
>concerns about the unit.
>We saw young bucks yes, but
>there were also three trips
>out of camp in both
>morning and evening hunts where
>we never saw even a
>single doe.
>I spent several hours on numerous
>days in an area I
>had to hike out to
>that overlooks thousands of acres
>of mid mountain land riddled
>with oak, sage, bitter brush
>and new habitat from the
>2010 burns and couldn't turn
>up a single deer through
>my Leica spotter and Zeiss
>glasses. This particular area "USED"
>to hold plenty of healthy
>deer numbers just a few
>short years as go.
>
>So if the numbers haven't changed
>and the herd sizes are
>above objective, where would they
>have moved too and more
>importantly.....why?

Those newer collars can answer the first question via their GPS satellite capabilities and depending on the timing, the location, weather, forage and cover availability, etc. (and some of the vaginal implants being installed), we may be able to answer the second question. However, I was told by a Southern Region biologist that the new collars can pose as many questions as they do answers. She told me about one doe that crossed SR89 and I-15 from the Paunsgunt to Pine Valley during fawning season and then went back a short time later. She didn't have a vaginal implant and there was no way to tell for sure if she had delivered a fawn, but the biologist was pretty sure that's why the doe went there. But why go there and that far? Do deer have homing instincts tied to their place of birth like salmon and homing pigeons or was it a just random move that a young doe made? I know that some, but not all, of the deer we transplanted from the Parowan Front to the Pahvant tried to get back "home" and one even went past Parowan to Kolob Reservoir. Why? That's what we hope to find out with the Migration Project!

If it helps, think of the older collars as Walkie-talkies and the newer collars as Smartphones. Don't you hate it when you keep being asked if it's ok for some company to keep track of you via your phone? Well, the deer with these new collars don't have a choice! :)
 
>>Slamdunk you said... "I can
>>attest that there is not
>>even remotely close to 13000
>>deer on unit 22. If
>>there are, they are extremely
>>concentrated into one plague like
>>and well hidden area!"
>>
>>So I reached out to a
>>friend that also hunted the
>>Beaver unit this year during
>>the rifle season.
>>He doesn't follow this forum and
>>I didn't say anything about
>>this thread.
>>I simply asked him how was
>>his hunt on the Beaver
>>and did he see many
>>bucks in general.
>>
>>Here's his response.. "It was ok.
>>I missed a 4x4 on
>>the third day. There was
>>tons of two points and
>>spikes that I passed on.
>>My dad ended up taking
>>a forkie on the last
>>day to take home some
>>meat. Time to look into
>>a new area to hunt."
>>
>>
>>So he may not have seen
>>a lot a big bucks
>>but his story is
>>a little different than what your
>>trying to sell.
>>
>>on another note: I do like
>>your idea of splitting the
>>unit in two and having
>>a west and east sub-unit.
>>
>
>I spent 80% of my time
>on the north end, both
>scouting prior to the hunt,
>then 7 consecutive days during
>the muzzy hunt.
>The area I was in has
>in years past been known
>to hold excellent numbers of
>deer and some great bucks.
>
>The other 20% of my time
>was spreading my wings out
>of frustration and looking up
>in the highest country, then
>to the lowest.
>I spoke with hunters in every
>area I ventured into, all
>shared the same frustration and
>concerns about the unit.
>We saw young bucks yes, but
>there were also three trips
>out of camp in both
>morning and evening hunts where
>we never saw even a
>single doe.
>I spent several hours on numerous
>days in an area I
>had to hike out to
>that overlooks thousands of acres
>of mid mountain land riddled
>with oak, sage, bitter brush
>and new habitat from the
>2010 burns and couldn't turn
>up a single deer through
>my Leica spotter and Zeiss
>glasses. This particular area "USED"
>to hold plenty of healthy
>deer numbers just a few
>short years as go.
>
>So if the numbers haven't changed
>and the herd sizes are
>above objective, where would they
>have moved too and more
>importantly.....why?


I've also talked to a few Hunters that said the same thing PUNK has seen this year Hunting the Unit!

I'd Put Money on saying Most Units in TARDville are Down!

I Can GUARANTEE You NE Utah Deer Herd SUCKS and you still can't find any Bucks with any age Class to them,not even during the RUT!

Yes We had the Drought!

But that Ain't the only Problem!

We Busted the state up in to 30+ Units & several years later it still SUCKS!

Before that we had 5 or 6 Bigger Regions,They SUCKED as well!

I Can attest for things getting Worse in a few of the Units!

Let's do something to Help them!

Instead of just POUNDING them clear out!












I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>
>So if the numbers haven't changed
>and the herd sizes are
>above objective, where would they
>have moved too and more
>importantly.....why?

That's a question the local Biologist should be asked.







see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
I'm not trying to be pessimistic about today's technology and biology practices, but when I have been there before and physically saw the higher numbers with my own eyes and so has many others (even locals), I have to stick with physicality.
There are not places on the Beaver that are considered "remote" enough that the majority of these deer have moved into to avoid humans, that's just an absurd argument.

The Beaver is full of ATV trails ("Paiute Trails") and have been seeing human presence from April through October for 20 years now, so that argument won't stand either.

Mule deer adapt very easily, and the addition of several new "Extended Archery" hunts in Utah and Salt Lake County next year proves deer and humans CAN thrive together.

There is ONE reason and one reason only why the Wasatch Front deer herds are getting out of control (even with shrinking winter range)....lower hunter success rates, period.
 
>
>>
>>So if the numbers haven't changed
>>and the herd sizes are
>>above objective, where would they
>>have moved too and more
>>importantly.....why?
>
>That's a question the local Biologist
>should be asked.
>
Agreed, Ridge.

And just to reiterate for others who are also questioning their preferred units, it's just not unit #22.

Can I find another hunting place that'll be better?
Of course I can, not all units are struggling.

My point is WHY and WHAT has caused such a drastic flip in a very popular unit that was once thriving with "visible" deer numbers?
 
>Slamdunk you said... "I can
>attest that there is not
>even remotely close to 13000
>deer on unit 22. If
>there are, they are extremely
>concentrated into one plague like
>and well hidden area!"
>
>So I reached out to a
>friend that also hunted the
>Beaver unit this year during
>the rifle season.
>He doesn't follow this forum and
>I didn't say anything about
>this thread.
>I simply asked him how was
>his hunt on the Beaver
>and did he see many
>bucks in general.
>
>Here's his response.. "It was ok.
>I missed a 4x4 on
>the third day. There was
>tons of two points and
>spikes that I passed on.
>My dad ended up taking
>a forkie on the last
>day to take home some
>meat. Time to look into
>a new area to hunt."

So Ridge!

I Hear this from many Hunters:

" Time to look into
>a new area to hunt."

Hell!

You've even Heard Me say it!

So a whole Bunch of Hunters are gonna Move Camp!

Maybe go Hunt another Unit not doing so Well!

This doesn't Pertain to just your Friends Dad but:

It Takes TARDS an average of 2-4 years to pull a General Tag now!

What's the Attitude with Most of them?

It is:

I'm taking something Home & I Don't care if it's BAMBI!

This Happens in Big Numbers!

No I'm Not Mad about it even though I Don't like it!

It is amazing how much money TARDS will pay for 30 lbs of Deer Meat in the Finished Form and for alot of them it's just to say:I Filled My Tag!

Or the one that really CRACKS Me up still today is:I Needed the Meat!

Let's let some of these little Bastards Grow up for GAWDS Sake!



>
>
>So he may not have seen
>a lot a big bucks
>but his story is
>a little different than what your
>trying to sell.
>
>on another note: I do like
>your idea of splitting the
>unit in two and having
>a west and east sub-unit.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>I.G.
> Follow me @ antler_chaser_











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>>Slamdunk you said... "I can
>>attest that there is not
>>even remotely close to 13000
>>deer on unit 22. If
>>there are, they are extremely
>>concentrated into one plague like
>>and well hidden area!"
>>
>>So I reached out to a
>>friend that also hunted the
>>Beaver unit this year during
>>the rifle season.
>>He doesn't follow this forum and
>>I didn't say anything about
>>this thread.
>>I simply asked him how was
>>his hunt on the Beaver
>>and did he see many
>>bucks in general.
>>
>>Here's his response.. "It was ok.
>>I missed a 4x4 on
>>the third day. There was
>>tons of two points and
>>spikes that I passed on.
>>My dad ended up taking
>>a forkie on the last
>>day to take home some
>>meat. Time to look into
>>a new area to hunt."
>
>So Ridge!
>
>I Hear this from many Hunters:
>
>
>" Time to look into
>>a new area to hunt."
>
>Hell!
>
>You've even Heard Me say it!
>
>
>So a whole Bunch of Hunters
>are gonna Move Camp!
>
>Maybe go Hunt another Unit not
>doing so Well!
>
>This doesn't Pertain to just your
>Friends Dad but:
>
>It Takes TARDS an average of
>2-4 years to pull a
>General Tag now!
>
>What's the Attitude with Most of
>them?
>
>It is:
>
>I'm taking something Home & I
>Don't care if it's BAMBI!
>
>
>This Happens in Big Numbers!
>
>No I'm Not Mad about it
>even though I Don't like
>it!
>
>It is amazing how much money
>TARDS will pay for 30
>lbs of Deer Meat in
>the Finished Form and for
>alot of them it's just
>to say:I Filled My Tag!
>
>
>Or the one that really CRACKS
>Me up still today is:I
>Needed the Meat!
>
>Let's let some of these little
>Bastards Grow up for GAWDS
>Sake!
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>So he may not have seen
>>a lot a big bucks
>>but his story is
>>a little different than what your
>>trying to sell.
>>
>>on another note: I do like
>>your idea of splitting the
>>unit in two and having
>>a west and east sub-unit.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>>I.G.
>> Follow me @ antler_chaser_
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

You keep focusing on the destination, ie: antlers or meat, but most of the Utah hunters I know hunt because they enjoy the journey as much or more than the destination, ie: being with family and friends/enjoying the outdoors/getting away from the rat-race/camping/scenery/other animals, etc. You seem to need a trophy on the wall to remind you of the hunt or to generate a conversation about it and I'm glad that works for you and wouldn't want to take that away from you, but please don't try to impose your values on the rest of us with restrictive regulations, insults, foul language and verbal bullying. Your reasons for hunting aren't everybody's reasons!
 
>>>Slamdunk you said... "I can
>>>attest that there is not
>>>even remotely close to 13000
>>>deer on unit 22. If
>>>there are, they are extremely
>>>concentrated into one plague like
>>>and well hidden area!"
>>>
>>>So I reached out to a
>>>friend that also hunted the
>>>Beaver unit this year during
>>>the rifle season.
>>>He doesn't follow this forum and
>>>I didn't say anything about
>>>this thread.
>>>I simply asked him how was
>>>his hunt on the Beaver
>>>and did he see many
>>>bucks in general.
>>>
>>>Here's his response.. "It was ok.
>>>I missed a 4x4 on
>>>the third day. There was
>>>tons of two points and
>>>spikes that I passed on.
>>>My dad ended up taking
>>>a forkie on the last
>>>day to take home some
>>>meat. Time to look into
>>>a new area to hunt."
>>
>>So Ridge!
>>
>>I Hear this from many Hunters:
>>
>>
>>" Time to look into
>>>a new area to hunt."
>>
>>Hell!
>>
>>You've even Heard Me say it!
>>
>>
>>So a whole Bunch of Hunters
>>are gonna Move Camp!
>>
>>Maybe go Hunt another Unit not
>>doing so Well!
>>
>>This doesn't Pertain to just your
>>Friends Dad but:
>>
>>It Takes TARDS an average of
>>2-4 years to pull a
>>General Tag now!
>>
>>What's the Attitude with Most of
>>them?
>>
>>It is:
>>
>>I'm taking something Home & I
>>Don't care if it's BAMBI!
>>
>>
>>This Happens in Big Numbers!
>>
>>No I'm Not Mad about it
>>even though I Don't like
>>it!
>>
>>It is amazing how much money
>>TARDS will pay for 30
>>lbs of Deer Meat in
>>the Finished Form and for
>>alot of them it's just
>>to say:I Filled My Tag!
>>
>>
>>Or the one that really CRACKS
>>Me up still today is:I
>>Needed the Meat!
>>
>>Let's let some of these little
>>Bastards Grow up for GAWDS
>>Sake!
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>So he may not have seen
>>>a lot a big bucks
>>>but his story is
>>>a little different than what your
>>>trying to sell.
>>>
>>>on another note: I do like
>>>your idea of splitting the
>>>unit in two and having
>>>a west and east sub-unit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>>>I.G.
>>> Follow me @ antler_chaser_
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
>
>You keep focusing on the destination,
>ie: antlers or meat, but
>most of the Utah hunters
>I know hunt because they
>enjoy the journey as much
>or more than the destination,
>ie: being with family and
>friends/enjoying the outdoors/getting away from
>the rat-race/camping/scenery/other animals, etc. You
>seem to need a trophy
>on the wall to remind
>you of the hunt or
>to generate a conversation about
>it and I'm glad that
>works for you and wouldn't
>want to take that away
>from you, but please don't
>try to impose your values
>on the rest of us
>with restrictive regulations, insults, foul
>language and verbal bullying. Your
>reasons for hunting aren't everybody's
>reasons!

You Don't Have a F'N Clue of Who I Am!

Verbal Bullying,LMMFAO!

No efa,I'm Not in to Killing PISSCUTTERS like yourself!

We need a few Units for Guys Just like You!

But don't Push your Self Proclaimed BS on to everybody!

LE Units were NEVER set up to turn them in to a PISSCUTTIN Contest!

They were Set up for Hunters who wanted a better chance at a Better Quality Animal!

Not to be Destroyed By Average JOE BLOWS like yourself wanting to Kill anything with Milk on their Lipps!

Set 3 or 4 MOTL Units up & Enjoy,Pound them Clear out but don't come WHINNING wanting to Destroy other LE Units after you Destroy them!

I'm Tired of Your BS & Founder doesn't like Fighting on His Forum Here So I say We settle the Differences Face to Face & Off of MM!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-18 AT 12:40PM (MST)[p]>>>>Slamdunk you said... "I can
>>>>attest that there is not
>>>>even remotely close to 13000
>>>>deer on unit 22. If
>>>>there are, they are extremely
>>>>concentrated into one plague like
>>>>and well hidden area!"
>>>>
>>>>So I reached out to a
>>>>friend that also hunted the
>>>>Beaver unit this year during
>>>>the rifle season.
>>>>He doesn't follow this forum and
>>>>I didn't say anything about
>>>>this thread.
>>>>I simply asked him how was
>>>>his hunt on the Beaver
>>>>and did he see many
>>>>bucks in general.
>>>>
>>>>Here's his response.. "It was ok.
>>>>I missed a 4x4 on
>>>>the third day. There was
>>>>tons of two points and
>>>>spikes that I passed on.
>>>>My dad ended up taking
>>>>a forkie on the last
>>>>day to take home some
>>>>meat. Time to look into
>>>>a new area to hunt."
>>>
>>>So Ridge!
>>>
>>>I Hear this from many Hunters:
>>>
>>>
>>>" Time to look into
>>>>a new area to hunt."
>>>
>>>You've even Heard Me say it!
>>>
>>>
>>>So a whole Bunch of Hunters
>>>are gonna Move Camp!
>>>
>>>Maybe go Hunt another Unit not
>>>doing so Well!
>>>
>>>This doesn't Pertain to just your
>>>Friends Dad but:
>>>
>>>It Takes Utahns an average of
>>>2-4 years to pull a
>>>General Tag now!
>>>
>>>What's the Attitude with Most of
>>>them?
>>>
>>>It is:
>>>
>>>I'm taking something Home & I
>>>Don't care if it's BAMBI!
>>>
>>>
>>>This Happens in Big Numbers!
>>>
>>>No I'm Not Mad about it
>>>even though I Don't like
>>>it!
>>>
>>>It is amazing how much money
>>>Utahns will pay for 30
>>>lbs of Deer Meat in
>>>the Finished Form and for
>>>alot of them it's just
>>>to say:I Filled My Tag!
>>>
>>>
>>>Or the one that really CRACKS
>>>Me up still today is:I
>>>Needed the Meat!
>>>
>>>Let's let some of these young
>>>deer Grow up!

>>>>
>>>>So he may not have seen
>>>>a lot a big bucks
>>>>but his story is
>>>>a little different than what your
>>>>trying to sell.
>>>>
>>>>on another note: I do like
>>>>your idea of splitting the
>>>>unit in two and having
>>>>a west and east sub-unit.
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>You keep focusing on the destination,
>>ie: antlers or meat, but
>>most of the Utah hunters
>>I know hunt because they
>>enjoy the journey as much
>>or more than the destination,
>>ie: being with family and
>>friends/enjoying the outdoors/getting away from
>>the rat-race/camping/scenery/other animals, etc. You
>>seem to need a trophy
>>on the wall to remind
>>you of the hunt or
>>to generate a conversation about
>>it and I'm glad that
>>works for you and wouldn't
>>want to take that away
>>from you, but please don't
>>try to impose your values
>>on the rest of us
>>with restrictive regulations, insults, foul
>>language and verbal bullying. Your
>>reasons for hunting aren't everybody's
>>reasons!
>
>You Don't Have a Clue
>of Who I Am!
>
>Verbal Bullying,LMMAO!
>
>No efa,I'm Not in to Killing
>PISSCUTTERS like yourself!
>
>We need a few Units for
>Guys Just like You!
>
>But don't Push your Self Proclaimed
>BS on to everybody!
>
>LE Units were NEVER set up
>to turn them in to
>a PISSCUTTIN Contest!
>
>They were Set up for Hunters
>who wanted a better chance
>at a Better Quality Animal!
>
>
>Not to be Destroyed By Average
>JOE BLOWS like yourself wanting
>to Kill anything with Milk
>on their Lipps!
>
>Set 3 or 4 MOTL Units
>up & Enjoy,Pound them Clear
>out but don't come WHINNING
>wanting to Destroy other LE
>Units after you Destroy them!
>
>
>I'm Tired of Your BS &
>Founder doesn't like Fighting on
>His Forum Here So I
>say We settle the Differences
>Face to Face & Off
>of MM!
>

I don't think we need a face to face off-line shouting match, do we? I don't see how that would accomplish the purpose of this thread. Besides, we've received some input from the forum readers and they've been given both sides (and more) of the issue and are capable of making up their own minds and deciding what they want to do about it

We're actually on the same pages on several things! You don't want LE units destroyed and neither do I. You say there aren't enough deer on most units and, according to the stats, I agree. You want to keep biologically sustainable numbers of deer on ALL units for future generations and so do I. Though we may disagree on numbers, you want to balance quality with opportunity and that's also what I want.

Where we differ are: causes and cures for the declines, where do we get the money, who's numbers do we believe and why or why not, what are our options regarding buck or doe tag numbers, who are all of the stakeholders and what are their priorities.

We also differ on the priorities of the criteria that needs to be met in order for the DWR/Wildlife Board to make the changes recommended by the DWR and/or public, ie: Biological, Legal, Financial, Social, Technological/Logistical.

I may have left out some agreements or differences, but we should be able to deal with those in a civil manner, don't you think?

Bottom line, if we can't reasonably resolve our differences publically online, I'll just take my case to the RAC's and Wildlife Board directly and/or move to another forum that doesn't produce all the rhetoric and drama this forum tends to produce. Entertaining isn't in my DNA, I guess. In any case, I'm not going away!
 
What if we had an outside, contractor fly the chopper around and count the deer. I bet in ?most? units the numbers not only populations, but buck/doe ratios would be shocking low compared to what the division feeds the public with their chart and graph methodology.
 
Fullthrottle,
I think that's a superb idea!!! I'd bet you could ever get sportsmen?s to foot the bill if we could get real numbers
 
>What if we had an outside,
>contractor fly the chopper around
>and count the deer. I
>bet in ?most? units the
>numbers not only populations, but
>buck/doe ratios would be shocking
>low compared to what the
>division feeds the public with
>their chart and graph methodology.
>

Nevada does our draws, let them also do our counts!
I love it!!!
 
Shut down deer hunting in UT for 5 years, then greatly reduce the number of tags and see what kind of a change that makes...
 
>>What if we had an outside,
>>contractor fly the chopper around
>>and count the deer. I
>>bet in ?most? units the
>>numbers not only populations, but
>>buck/doe ratios would be shocking
>>low compared to what the
>>division feeds the public with
>>their chart and graph methodology.
>>
>
>Nevada does our draws, let them
>also do our counts!
>I love it!!!

The Nevada company, Systems Consultants, probably couldn't do it. They are strictly a computer systems company, but DWR does contract with a helicopter company that helps with the transplants. Maybe they could help. In any case, it's a great idea that could be paid for with Expo and Conservation tag money! Yahoo!
 
>Shut down deer hunting in UT
>for 5 years, then greatly
>reduce the number of tags
>and see what kind of
>a change that makes...

What kind of a change or changes do you think that will make?
 
>Shut down deer hunting in UT
>for 5 years, then greatly
>reduce the number of tags
>and see what kind of
>a change that makes...


Why, so we can watch the DWR go broke?
How would losing 5 years of a multimillion dollar income and tax base help our wildlife?

Speaking of revenue from hunting, does anyone know the actual income from big game licenses versus what the state actually allocates toward funding the DWR and all its entities from the general fund?
 
Shut down deer hunting in UT for 5 years, then greatly reduce the number of tags and see what kind of a change that makes...


You Think I've got efa Mad Now?

If You Shut His PISSCUTTIN Down for 5 Years I can Only Imagine what kinda BAWLLLLLLLLLLLLLING He'd be doing!

If We'd of had Proper Management there would have never been any Units that would have to be closed!







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>>Shut down deer hunting in UT
>>for 5 years, then greatly
>>reduce the number of tags
>>and see what kind of
>>a change that makes...
>
>
>Why, so we can watch the
>DWR go broke?
>How would losing 5 years of
>a multimillion dollar income and
>tax base help our wildlife?
>
>
>Speaking of revenue from hunting, does
>anyone know the actual income
>from big game licenses versus
>what the state actually allocates
>toward funding the DWR and
>all its entities from the
>general fund?

I'm sorry, but it looks like you don't understand how the DWR's budget works. This should help.

https://wildlife.utah.gov/about-us/64-what-we-do/191-financial-overview.html
 
Thank you for clearing that up EFA, many of us have been under the impression that all the sales of hunting licenses goes into the states general fund and dispersed on a budget.

None the less, my question about the benefit of shutting down the deer hunt for 5 years would do even more damage than my initial thought.
 
Looks Like they're are Spending every Red Cent!

It's Past Time for some Changes!







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
I've said for Years that people like EFA needs to get a few MOTL Units going & Hunt/Manage them as You Please!

But after You Completely Destroy them Units don't come a BAWLING wanting to destroy other Units!

I'm Trying Not to use the F-Word but it's Hard not to do!

The More Opportunity BS is getting Way Old!

How Much harder can You Hunt a Deer & Elk Herd?

Answers PLEASE!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
OK efa!

I'd like to know your thoughts on this since you seem to know everything!

I Spend a little time in the Book Cliffs!

I Don't Hunt it anymore since it went to a Draw!

Have Helped a few Friends/Family!

A Couple Weeks back/During the Rut We Covered as Much Ground as You can in one day!

I Wasn't Dinking around Neither!

Run From Lower Desert/Middle/and to the Divide/Top!

Never Seen a Buck We'd of Shot!

But We did see an OLD Bruiser!

Roman Nose/The Only Buck We Seen Old enough to have a Roman Nose!

This Ole Boy was Packing a Body!

Hell Ya He was RUTTIN!

This was the Oldest/By Far the Biggest Bodied Buck We Seen!

Some Real Quality here:

787002018bookcliffsbuck.jpg













I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>Thank you for clearing that up
>EFA, many of us have
>been under the impression that
>all the sales of hunting
>licenses goes into the states
>general fund and dispersed on
>a budget.
>
>None the less, my question about
>the benefit of shutting down
>the deer hunt for 5
>years would do even more
>damage than my initial thought.
>

You're welcome! It's pretty common to think that the DWR is like most of the other state agencies that have to present a budget in order to get any funds because they have no way of generating their own operating funds. But the DWR is mandated to find ways of generating their own funds, which, as you can see, they do. To be honest, that's what I thought too, until I joined UWC and was asked to do some research about the Expo tags in order to make a presentation to the Wildlife Board and that request started me doing even more wildlife related research and I've done tons of it ever since. It's something I enjoy doing and can do on my own time.
 
I certainly hope no ladies chose him to sire!
But knowing the Bookcliffs, they don't have much more to choose from.
 
Any Answers efa?








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
> Any Answers efa?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
How about you throw out some answers elk. Except for cutting tags and not shooting bucks under 5 yrs. old. What else you got?


see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
>You're welcome! It's pretty common to
>think that the DWR is
>like most of the other
>state agencies that have to
>present a budget in order
>to get any funds because
>they have no way of
>generating their own operating funds.
>But the DWR is mandated
>to find ways of generating
>their own funds, which, as
>you can see, they do.
>To be honest, that's what
>I thought too, until I
>joined UWC and was asked
>to do some research about
>the Expo tags in order
>to make a presentation to
>the Wildlife Board and that
>request started me doing even
>more wildlife related research and
>I've done tons of it
>ever since. It's something I
>enjoy doing and can do
>on my own time.

Seeing proof and stats about funding allocation from both state and federal levels just opened my eyes and mind about how things are done.

Now if we can figure out better ways to reap its benefits for our big game......
 
>> Any Answers efa?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>How about you throw out some
>answers elk. Except for cutting
>tags and not shooting bucks
>under 5 yrs. old. What
>else you got?
>
>
>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>I.G.
> Follow me @ antler_chaser_


Shooting Bucks 5+ years Old ain't efa's Cup of Tea!

Ridge?

Did You not see My Post where I Recommend efa starting a Few MOTL Units for the Opportunists?










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>> Any Answers efa?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>How about you throw out some
>answers elk. Except for cutting
>tags and not shooting bucks
>under 5 yrs. old. What
>else you got?


How Much harder do You want the Utah Deer Herd Hunted?

We've already Hunted them to Death!

What'ya think about the Book Cliffs Breeders Ridge?


>
>
>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>I.G.
> Follow me @ antler_chaser_











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
> I've said for Years that
>people like EFA needs to
>get a few MOTL Units
>going & Hunt/Manage them as
>You Please!


Thanks for the concern, but please don't go to any trouble just for "people like EFA" because we already have units for "people like EFA", just as we have units for "people like you". They're called General units, Limited Entry units and Premium Limited Entry units. All three have their good and bad points which means we have to be willing to deal with that fact when we choose to hunt them. I personally prefer the General units which are primarily managed for opportunity and which allow me to hunt more often, while you may prefer one of the others which are primarily managed for trophies and are hunted less often. Happily, we get to make our own choice.
>
>
>But after You Completely Destroy them
>Units don't come a BAWLING
>wanting to destroy other Units!


No one I know wants to "Completely Destroy" (whatever that means) ANY unit. I/they want what you want: biologically sound sustainable units that they and their children can hunt for generations to come.
>
>
>I'm Trying Not to use the
>F-Word but it's Hard not
>to do!


No comment.

>
>
>The More Opportunity BS is getting
>Way Old!


Does that mean you don't want anyone to hunt more often than you? Or are you just tired of someone talking about keeping what they already have? Or are you upset because someone doesn't agree with you? Or is it just that you don't think that managing for opportunity is a viable option? Or what?


>How Much harder can You Hunt
>a Deer & Elk Herd?


Which herd are you talking about? Not all of them are hunted the same.
>
>
>Answers PLEASE!
>
>

Yes, Answers, PLEASE!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-18 AT 10:57PM (MST)[p]>> Any Answers efa?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>How about you throw out some
>answers elk. Except for cutting
>tags and not shooting bucks
>under 5 yrs. old. What
>else you got?
>
>
>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>I.G.
> Follow me @ antler_chaser_


Posts 14, 34, 114, 127! Do you want more?
 
> OK efa!
>
>I'd like to know your thoughts
>on this since you seem
>to know everything!
>
>I Spend a little time in
>the Book Cliffs!
>
>I Don't Hunt it anymore since
>it went to a Draw!
>
>
>Have Helped a few Friends/Family!
>
>A Couple Weeks back/During the Rut
>We Covered as Much Ground
>as You can in one
>day!
>
>I Wasn't Dinking around Neither!
>
>Run From Lower Desert/Middle/and to the
>Divide/Top!
>
>Never Seen a Buck We'd of
>Shot!
>
>But We did see an OLD
>Bruiser!
>
>Roman Nose/The Only Buck We Seen
>Old enough to have a
>Roman Nose!
>
>This Ole Boy was Packing a
>Body!
>
>Hell Ya He was RUTTIN!
>
>This was the Oldest/By Far the
>Biggest Bodied Buck We Seen!
>
>
>Some Real Quality here:
>
>
787002018bookcliffsbuck.jpg

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

My thoughts? Yeh, you're right! He definitely is an old buck in a posture the looks like he's either rutting or ready to fight. Good for him. I wonder how he got through all of the intense, overcrowded, too long archery, rifle and muzzy hunts over the last 5, 6 or 7 years on the Book Cliffs. As much as you've been on that unit, you should have seen him long before now, don't you think?
 
>>> Any Answers efa?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>How about you throw out some
>>answers elk. Except for cutting
>>tags and not shooting bucks
>>under 5 yrs. old. What
>>else you got?
>
>
>How Much harder do You want
>the Utah Deer Herd Hunted?

Which unit? We've got 42 of them in total.
>
>
>We've already Hunted them to Death!

No, there are still some live deer on all of them! Too many on some.
>
>
>What'ya think about the Book Cliffs
>Breeders Ridge?
>
>
>>
>>
>>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>>I.G.
>> Follow me @ antler_chaser_
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-18
>AT 10:57?PM (MST)
>
>>> Any Answers efa?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>How about you throw out some
>>answers elk. Except for cutting
>>tags and not shooting bucks
>>under 5 yrs. old. What
>>else you got?
>>
>>
>>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>>I.G.
>> Follow me @ antler_chaser_
>
>
>Posts 14, 34, 114, 127! Do
>you want more?

Sorry EFA, I was asking elkassassin that question. I do like some of your responses.

Lee, I know we've had our differences over the years and I've made some rude comments in your direction too but as far as I know have apologized for doing that.
It's mainly when your lumping me in with a crowd like Bessy. Which can't be farther from the truth. I will always support someone wanting to kill a smaller buck.
Yes, I do trophy hunt but I also feel there needs to be a balance with all types of hunters.

I think that the buck/doe ratio should be set at 18-20 min. on all units but a higher buck/doe ratio should be set for units with higher amounts of private lands like the zion and morgan/rich for example.
Those units should be set at more like 23-25. They seem to be getting overcrowded on what little public lands there are on those units.


see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-18
>>AT 10:57?PM (MST)
>>
>>>> Any Answers efa?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>How about you throw out some
>>>answers elk. Except for cutting
>>>tags and not shooting bucks
>>>under 5 yrs. old. What
>>>else you got?
>>>
>>>
>>>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>>>I.G.
>>> Follow me @ antler_chaser_
>>
>>
>>Posts 14, 34, 114, 127! Do
>>you want more?
>
>Sorry EFA, I was asking elkassassin
>that question. I do like
>some of your responses.
>
>Lee, I know we've had our
>differences over the years and
>I've made some rude comments
>in your direction too but
>as far as I know
>have apologized for doing that.
>
>It's mainly when your lumping me
>in with a crowd like
>Bessy. Which can't be farther
>from the truth. I will
>always support someone wanting to
>kill a smaller buck.
>Yes, I do trophy hunt but
>I also feel there needs
>to be a balance with
>all types of hunters.
>
>I think that the buck/doe ratio
>should be set at 18-20
>min. on all units but
>a higher buck/doe ratio should
>be set for units with
>higher amounts of private lands
>like the zion and morgan/rich
>for example.
>Those units should be set at
>more like 23-25. They seem
>to be getting overcrowded on
>what little public lands there
>are on those units.
>
>
>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>I.G.
> Follow me @ antler_chaser_


My bad! Sorry! With both of our handles beginning with Elk/elk, I got confused and I didn't mean to lump you together.

And I think you are right about the units with a lot of private land. We just don't have enough places to put that many public draw hunters, but it would be great for landowners to be able to hunt their own land. Some units are certainly more complicated than others!
 
> Any Answers efa?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

Posts 14, 34, 114, 127 and a couple more!
 
I skipped all the bantering back-and-forth posts from what seemed like the same guys to address the question of what good shutting down hunting would do would do.

The short answer is it will increase deer numbers and quality. But, because NO ONE in UT can seem to fathom that, it is pointless to point out that while you're doing that, you also increase predator control. Don't believe me, call up Jicarilla (Apache) Game and Fish. The Jics have way better deer numbers and quality than UT ever dreamed.

You also do it one or two units at a time, not statewide...
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-18 AT 09:12AM (MST)[p]>
>>You're welcome! It's pretty common to
>>think that the DWR is
>>like most of the other
>>state agencies that have to
>>present a budget in order
>>to get any funds because
>>they have no way of
>>generating their own operating funds.
>>But the DWR is mandated
>>to find ways of generating
>>their own funds, which, as
>>you can see, they do.
>>To be honest, that's what
>>I thought too, until I
>>joined UWC and was asked
>>to do some research about
>>the Expo tags in order
>>to make a presentation to
>>the Wildlife Board and that
>>request started me doing even
>>more wildlife related research and
>>I've done tons of it
>>ever since. It's something I
>>enjoy doing and can do
>>on my own time.
>
>Seeing proof and stats about funding
>allocation from both state and
>federal levels just opened my
>eyes and mind about how
>things are done.
>
>Now if we can figure out
>better ways to reap its
>benefits for our big game......
>

I hope you caught the FULL impact of what those stats mean!

For instance, those Federal sales tax funds (Pittman/Robertson for hunting equipment and Dingell/Johnson for fishing equipment and boat gas) are distributed to each state on a percentage basis based on the size of the state and the number of individuals buying licenses and/or tags from that state. What that means is every time a hunter or fisherman buys an out-of-state license, he/she pulls some money out of Utah's portion and sends it to that other state. And that portion not only comes out of the hunter's/fisherman's federal taxes, it comes out of yours and mine as well. And I, for one, don't want to have to pay for ANY portion of that out-of-state hunt, directly or otherwise.

You can also see how counterproductive it can be to try to reduce permits so that residents and non-residents feel they have to go elsewhere to find what they are after. I have 3 neighbors/friends on my street who have already quit hunting deer because of the hassle and red tape. One still hunts elk and two still go fishing but the other one just quit hunting (he never did any fishing I know of).
 
>I hope you caught the FULL
>impact of what those stats
>mean!
>
>For instance, those Federal sales tax
>funds (Pittman/Robertson for hunting equipment
>and Dingell/Johnson for fishing equipment
>and boat gas) are distributed
>to each state on a
>percentage basis based on the
>size of the state and
>the number of individuals buying
>licenses and/or tags from that
>state. What that means is
>every time a hunter or
>fisherman buys an out-of-state license,
>he/she pulls some money out
>of Utah's portion and sends
>it to that other state.
>And that portion not only
>comes out of the hunter's/fisherman's
>federal taxes, it comes out
>of yours and mine as
>well. And I, for one,
>don't want to have to
>pay for ANY portion of
>that out-of-state hunt, directly or
>otherwise.
>
>You can also see how counterproductive
>it can be to try
>to reduce permits so that
>residents and non-residents feel they
>have to go elsewhere to
>find what they are after.
>I have 3 neighbors/friends on
>my street who have already
>quit hunting deer because of
>the hassle and red tape.
>One still hunts elk and
>two still go fishing but
>the other one just quit
>hunting (he never did any
>fishing I know of).

Absolutely I do, and I saved that link so I can better explain it in the future when the time arrises ?
 
>You also do it one or
>two units at a time,
>not statewide...


Look at the quality and quantity of game on our own states CWMU properties.
But as pointed out, we cannot turn this entire state into trophy quality hunting.
My idea is to create more LE's with better quality yet more opportunity than the 2 premium LE's we currently have and most of the rest of the state can be what they currently are.
I still like the idea of choosing your tag for mature buck or yearling buck and sticking you to your initial choice to harvest.
That would save a lot of "last day bucks" from getting harvested and makes the meat hunters pass on horns for the mature buck hunters to have a chance at.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-18 AT 11:39AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-18 AT 11:38?AM (MST)

>I skipped all the bantering back-and-forth
>posts from what seemed like
>the same guys to address
>the question of what good
>shutting down hunting would do
>would do.
>
>The short answer is it will
>increase deer numbers and quality.
> But, because NO ONE
>in UT can seem to
>fathom that, it is pointless
>to point out that while
>you're doing that, you also
>increase predator control. Don't
>believe me, call up Jicarilla
>(Apache) Game and Fish.
> The Jics have way
>better deer numbers and quality
>than UT ever dreamed.
>
>You also do it one or
>two units at a time,
>not statewide...

Per the Jicarilla 2018-2019 Non-tribal Member Hunting Proclamation, Page 2

"License Type-----------------------------------License Price

Mule Deer
-General Draw------------------------------------$17,500....
-Buck and Bull Combo Sealed Bid---Top 2 bids-----$40,000 min...
-Trophy Sealed Bid----------------Top 2 Bids-----$30,000 min...
-Live Auction @ Western Hunting & Conservation Expo....

"Hunt Information
Jicarilla Tribal Guides are required for all big game hunts(except turkey and waterfowl). Guide fees vary depending on the services provided...."

"General Rules and Regulations
7. No Hunting and Restricted Hunting Zones-include areas within 1/4 mile of occupied dwellings, Horse Lake Mesa Elk Breeding Facility, and recreational areas and lakes when people are present."

Also in their ads we read:
".. where big-game populations are managed strictly for trophy hunting opportunities."

"The Jicarilla represents a unique opportunity for wildlife management since the Nation has jurisdiction over both habitat and wildlife."

"Dulce is the reservation's sole community with a population of approximately 3,000 people."

I wonder if those 3,000 people have any public input regarding the regulations? But, then again, why would they care? They are Native Americans living on a reservation and are legally entitled to hunting and fishing for sustenance. There may be Tribal rules for them, but I'm pretty sure there are no fees.

Apples to oranges? More like apples to orangutans.

I, for one, certainly don't want Utah big game hunting to be like that. Do any of you?
 
>
>>You also do it one or
>>two units at a time,
>>not statewide...
>
>
>Look at the quality and quantity
>of game on our own
>states CWMU properties.
>But as pointed out, we cannot
>turn this entire state into
>trophy quality hunting.
>My idea is to create more
>LE's with better quality yet
>more opportunity than the 2
>premium LE's we currently have
>and most of the rest
>of the state can be
>what they currently are.
>I still like the idea of
>choosing your tag for mature
>buck or yearling buck and
>sticking you to your initial
>choice to harvest.
>That would save a lot of
>"last day bucks" from getting
>harvested and makes the meat
>hunters pass on horns for
>the mature buck hunters to
>have a chance at.

I would agree with some more LE units with higher buck to ratios, but wouldn't agree to the mature buck or yearling buck tag proposal. That's akin to antler restrictions with all of their unintended consequences and that determination should remain personal and just revolve around the unit you choose.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-18 AT 12:54PM (MST)[p]> Shut down deer hunting in
>UT for 5 years, then
>greatly reduce the number of
>tags and see what kind
>of a change that makes...
>
>
>
>You Think I've got efa Mad
>Now?
>
>If You Shut His PISSCUTTIN Down
>for 5 Years I can
>Only Imagine what kinda BAWLLLLLLLLLLLLLING
>He'd be doing!
>
>If We'd of had Proper Management
>there would have never been
>any Units that would have
>to be closed!
>
>
Why would I be mad or start BAWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLING?

Did you forget that I also shoot does and fawns (deer and pronghorn) and cow elk and calves using depredation tags? And I can still hunt bull elk and turkeys with over the counter tags AND OIL species if I'm lucky enough to get a tag (19 points for bull moose and 5 points for cow moose), plus 3 points for bear.

I ended up with 5 big game tags this year and, so far, have only taken a fawn doe deer off of a friend's corn field. (Actually, my grandson shot it on the mentoring program and we had a great time together. He wants to do it again next year. We didn't get the doe pronghorn, but that was my mistake. I tried to get them a little closer for my grandson, but they smelled us and bolted.) I still have my archery buck deer tag and my archery elk tag that I could use on the Extended hunts if I wanted to (I don't) and I still have my depredation cow elk tag that I can use until Jan 31, 2019. I wouldn't even miss the buck deer tag. In fact, I only tried for the buck deer for 2 days. I was too busy with the other hunts.

There will be no BAWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLING from this corner of the room! It seems to be coming from somewhere else!
 
Even mentioning the Jicarilla in this thread is an "Orangutan" in comparison for sure and there is a reason there are only a handful of areas to hunt like that (waste of brain cells even thinking about it).

But the fact remains that Utah's deer hunting as a whole needs improvement and although not everyone agrees that it is even broken nor will we all agree on its causes or its solutions, we MUST get on some type of same page together or decide to let it be ran the way the "computer models" see fit.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-18
>AT 11:39?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-18
>AT 11:38?AM (MST)
>
>>I skipped all the bantering back-and-forth
>>posts from what seemed like
>>the same guys to address
>>the question of what good
>>shutting down hunting would do
>>would do.
>>
>>The short answer is it will
>>increase deer numbers and quality.
>> But, because NO ONE
>>in UT can seem to
>>fathom that, it is pointless
>>to point out that while
>>you're doing that, you also
>>increase predator control. Don't
>>believe me, call up Jicarilla
>>(Apache) Game and Fish.
>> The Jics have way
>>better deer numbers and quality
>>than UT ever dreamed.
>>
>>You also do it one or
>>two units at a time,
>>not statewide...
>
>Per the Jicarilla 2018-2019 Non-tribal Member
>Hunting Proclamation, Page 2
>
>"License Type-----------------------------------License Price
>
>Mule Deer
>-General Draw------------------------------------$17,500....
>-Buck and Bull Combo Sealed Bid---Top
>2 bids-----$40,000 min...
>-Trophy Sealed Bid----------------Top 2 Bids-----$30,000 min...
>
>-Live Auction @ Western Hunting &
>Conservation Expo....
>
>"Hunt Information
>Jicarilla Tribal Guides are required for
>all big game hunts(except turkey
>and waterfowl). Guide fees vary
>depending on the services provided...."
>
>
>"General Rules and Regulations
>7. No Hunting and Restricted Hunting
>Zones-include areas within 1/4 mile
>of occupied dwellings, Horse Lake
>Mesa Elk Breeding Facility, and
>recreational areas and lakes when
>people are present."
>
>Also in their ads we read:
>
>".. where big-game populations are managed
>strictly for trophy hunting opportunities."
>
>
>"The Jicarilla represents a unique opportunity
>for wildlife management since the
>Nation has jurisdiction over both
>habitat and wildlife."
>
>"Dulce is the reservation's sole community
>with a population of approximately
>3,000 people."
>
>I wonder if those 3,000 people
>have any public input regarding
>the regulations? But, then again,
>why would they care? They
>are Native Americans living on
>a reservation and are legally
>entitled to hunting and fishing
>for sustenance. There may be
>Tribal rules for them, but
>I'm pretty sure there are
>no fees.
>
>Apples to oranges? More like apples
>to orangutans.
>
>I, for one, certainly don't want
>Utah big game hunting to
>be like that. Do any
>of you?

What do You Mean You don't want it to be like that here in TARDville?

Gonna Clue You in outside of Your Doe Shoots!

Nearly Every Big Buck and Bull in this State has a Name & a Price Tag on His Head!

They are Surrounded & Held at Bay for a Nominal Fee!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-18 AT 07:27PM (MST)[p]I am not convinced it's ALL hunter pressure and harvest rates, and here is why.

I have a very good friend who owns a 10,000 acre ranch south of the roadless part of the bookcliffs and north of nine mile.
He receives 9 deer tags each year from the state, but has only been using 2 sometimes 3 at the most of those tags for the last 15 or so years and tosses the other 6-7 tags into the fire pit.
He has seen a steady decline in the deer numbers using his property.
This year during the hunts he said he struggled to see 10 total deer on his land when he used to see 50-100.

His habitat it healthy and they definitely aren't pressured.
So where did they go and why??

It isn't just public lands seeing declines in deer numbers.
 
>I am not convinced it's ALL
>hunter pressure and harvest rates,
>and here is why.
>
>I have a very good friend
>who owns a 10,000 acre
>ranch south of the roadless
>part of the bookcliffs and
>north of nine mile.
>He receives 9 deer tags each
>year from the state, but
>has only been using 2
>sometimes 3 at the most
>of those tags for the
>last 15 or so years
>and tosses the other 6-7
>tags into the fire pit.
>
>He has seen a steady decline
>in the deer numbers
>using his property.
>This year during the hunts he
>said he struggled to see
>10 total deer on his
>land when he used to
>see 50-100.
>
>His habitat it healthy and they
>definitely aren't pressured.
>So where did they go and
>why??

That Land out there has always been kinda Low on Deer Numbers!

But the Private out there would usually Hold a few Good Bucks!

Sounds like He's been Trying to Manage it the Best He Can!

I Give Him Credit for Doing His Part!

50-100 Deer Ain't alot for 10,000 Acres!

But Beats the Hell out of 10!

So?

If Property Surrounding His Property is Public!

There Might need to be Some Tags Cut?

efa will surely Argue with me!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>>I am not convinced it's ALL
>>hunter pressure and harvest rates,
>>and here is why.
>>
>>I have a very good friend
>>who owns a 10,000 acre
>>ranch south of the roadless
>>part of the bookcliffs and
>>north of nine mile.
>>He receives 9 deer tags each
>>year from the state, but
>>has only been using 2
>>sometimes 3 at the most
>>of those tags for the
>>last 15 or so years
>>and tosses the other 6-7
>>tags into the fire pit.
>>
>>He has seen a steady decline
>>in the deer numbers
>>using his property.
>>This year during the hunts he
>>said he struggled to see
>>10 total deer on his
>>land when he used to
>>see 50-100.
>>
>>His habitat it healthy and they
>>definitely aren't pressured.
>>So where did they go and
>>why??
>
>That Land out there has always
>been kinda Low on Deer
>Numbers!
>
>But the Private out there would
>usually Hold a few Good
>Bucks!
>
>Sounds like He's been Trying to
>Manage it the Best He
>Can!
>
>I Give Him Credit for Doing
>His Part!
>
>50-100 Deer Ain't alot for 10,000
>Acres!
>
>But Beats the Hell out of
>10!
>
>So?
>
>If Property Surrounding His Property is
>Public!
>
>There Might need to be Some
>Tags Cut?
>
>efa will surely Argue with me!
>
>
>
His land is definitely surrounded by public lands, but that country up there is mostly private cattle ranches and CWMU's with extremely limited tags.
I used to guide elk hunters up on the Nutter, Jensen and Wilcox ranches and it was amazing seeing so many big bucks in that area.
The "Roan Cliffs" were crawling with healthy deer herds.
Hell,even Kirt Darner hunted that country! Lol
 
Truth Be Known PUNK!

I'll bet there's several Combined Issues!

Hunting Deer & Elk Non-Stop & Overlapped from Mid August through January & February with the Late Cow Hunts Ain't Helping Matters!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>
>Truth Be Known PUNK!
>
>I'll bet there's several Combined Issues!
>
>
>Hunting Deer & Elk Non-Stop &
>Overlapped from Mid August through
>January & February with the
>Late Cow Hunts Ain't Helping
>Matters!
>
There are way too many hunts, for that I have zero doubt.
 
>>I am not convinced it's ALL
>>hunter pressure and harvest rates,
>>and here is why.
>>
>>I have a very good friend
>>who owns a 10,000 acre
>>ranch south of the roadless
>>part of the bookcliffs and
>>north of nine mile.
>>He receives 9 deer tags each
>>year from the state, but
>>has only been using 2
>>sometimes 3 at the most
>>of those tags for the
>>last 15 or so years
>>and tosses the other 6-7
>>tags into the fire pit.
>>
>>He has seen a steady decline
>>in the deer numbers
>>using his property.
>>This year during the hunts he
>>said he struggled to see
>>10 total deer on his
>>land when he used to
>>see 50-100.
>>
>>His habitat it healthy and they
>>definitely aren't pressured.
>>So where did they go and
>>why??
>
>That Land out there has always
>been kinda Low on Deer
>Numbers!
>
>But the Private out there would
>usually Hold a few Good
>Bucks!
>
>Sounds like He's been Trying to
>Manage it the Best He
>Can!
>
>I Give Him Credit for Doing
>His Part!
>
>50-100 Deer Ain't alot for 10,000
>Acres!
>
>But Beats the Hell out of
>10!
>
>So?
>
>If Property Surrounding His Property is
>Public!
>
>There Might need to be Some
>Tags Cut?
>
>efa will surely Argue with me!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

No, EFA won't argue with you. Both the Book Cliffs and the Nine Mile are below the population objectives and the Book Cliffs is within the buck to doe ratio while the Nine Mile is above it, but neither of them have the excess bucks that would prevent a cut in tags.

Having said that, I don't think a cut in buck tags will make any difference at all to the population. The deer aren't in those fields because they don't want to be there for whatever reason they have decided. Too many times people think like people when they manage wildlife, but deer aren't people and they do what deer do, whether we like it or understand it or not. I personally would have no objection to tag cuts on either of those units. But I wouldn't promote them either because I haven't seen any evidence that bucks give birth to fawns, or nurse them, or protect them or show them where to find food, shelter, or water. Does do that!
 
>Both the Book Cliffs and
>the Nine Mile are below
>the population objectives and the
>Book Cliffs is within the
>buck to doe ratio while
>the Nine Mile is above
>it, but neither of them
>have the excess bucks that
>would prevent a cut in
>tags.
>

So why are they "below the population objectives" is the major question?
As I mentioned already, the 9 mile area is full of private lands which equates to low hunter predation.
 
>>Both the Book Cliffs and
>>the Nine Mile are below
>>the population objectives and the
>>Book Cliffs is within the
>>buck to doe ratio while
>>the Nine Mile is above
>>it, but neither of them
>>have the excess bucks that
>>would prevent a cut in
>>tags.
>>
>
>So why are they "below the
>population objectives" is the major
>question?
>As I mentioned already, the 9
>mile area is full of
>private lands which equates to
>low hunter predation.

I have some ideas about why this is happening, if your willing to listen for a few minutes without feeling the need to argue every point made.
I'll get back with you tonight.






see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
>>>Both the Book Cliffs and
>>>the Nine Mile are below
>>>the population objectives and the
>>>Book Cliffs is within the
>>>buck to doe ratio while
>>>the Nine Mile is above
>>>it, but neither of them
>>>have the excess bucks that
>>>would prevent a cut in
>>>tags.
>>>
>>
>>So why are they "below the
>>population objectives" is the major
>>question?
>>As I mentioned already, the 9
>>mile area is full of
>>private lands which equates to
>>low hunter predation.
>
>I have some ideas about why
>this is happening, if your
>willing to listen for a
>few minutes without feeling the
>need to argue every point
>made.
>I'll get back with you tonight.
>
>
Ditto!
 
I am certainly not trying to sound argumentative in my posts.
I have been involved with conservation groups in both big game and fishing, so I DO feel like I have more understanding about all of this than your average nimrod.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-18 AT 02:20PM (MST)[p]
Hey Ridge & efa!

Pay Close Attention at about 14:00!

TARDS are No Different than Wolves!

Keep Killing the Calves/Spikes year after year!

What do you end up with?

This Guy See's the Light!

Wished other people could see it!

https://vimeo.com/302332804?ref=fb-...eRGN-aQCDshv7vu-LKBu9DdTMdUZFGD56IYaxAiKZWmzQ









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
I've watched it twice now, it is definitely worth the time.

Even though it is off the topic of this thread and a whole other beast, I believe what Bess is trying to point out with it is what the wolves have done and continue to do is killing too many young big game animals out of our herds in reference to us as hunters harvesting the bulk of our yearling bucks, which is our future stock.
 
>I've watched it twice now, it
>is definitely worth the time.
>
>
>Even though it is off the
>topic of this thread and
>a whole other beast, I
>believe what Bess is trying
>to point out with it
>is what the wolves have
>done and continue to do
>is killing too many young
>big game animals out of
>our herds in reference to
>us as hunters harvesting the
>bulk of our yearling bucks,
>which is our future stock.
>
"yearling bucks, our future stock"? Please explain.
 
>>I've watched it twice now, it
>>is definitely worth the time.
>>
>>
>>Even though it is off the
>>topic of this thread and
>>a whole other beast, I
>>believe what Bess is trying
>>to point out with it
>>is what the wolves have
>>done and continue to do
>>is killing too many young
>>big game animals out of
>>our herds in reference to
>>us as hunters harvesting the
>>bulk of our yearling bucks,
>>which is our future stock.
>>
>"yearling bucks, our future stock"? Please
>explain.

If Un-Like You Let em Live past the Milk on the Lip Stage!

SPLAINED!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Slamdunk, check out this site. There's a lot to digest for sure but I think you will find some of the answers your looking for.

https://www.wafwa.org/committees___groups/mule_deer_working_group/publications/

Here's my theory of what possibly happened within that burn area you hunted within the Beaver unit.
I've hunted and scouted several burn areas in the past.
They can be very productive in the first few years after the burn but then the deer slowly, sometime rapidly start to disappear.
Some people think that the nutritional values of the plants are depleted and then the deer are not as healthy, which can make them more susceptible to disease and being caught by predators.
Just a thought but I have personally seen this play out on a couple different units already.

















see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
Burns are OK for 3 to 4 Years Max!

Every time I've seen a Burn around here it sure gets lots of Little Bucks Killed!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
> Burns are OK for 3
>to 4 Years Max!
>
>Every time I've seen a Burn
>around here it sure gets
>lots of Little Bucks Killed!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
You sure are obsessed with killing little bucks!
That's all you seem to want to talk about.


see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
>> Burns are OK for 3
>>to 4 Years Max!
>>
>>Every time I've seen a Burn
>>around here it sure gets
>>lots of Little Bucks Killed!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>You sure are obsessed with killing
>little bucks!
>That's all you seem to want
>to talk about.
>
>
>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>I.G.
> Follow me @ antler_chaser_


Pay-A-F'N-TENTION!

I Didn't Say I was Killing the PISSCUTTERS!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
I'm More Interested in seeing that 38"ER!







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>Slamdunk, check out this site. There's
>a lot to digest for
>sure but I think you
>will find some of the
>answers your looking for.
>
>https://www.wafwa.org/committees___groups/mule_deer_working_group/publications/
>
>Here's my theory of what possibly
>happened within that burn area
>you hunted within the Beaver
>unit.
>I've hunted and scouted several burn
>areas in the past.
>They can be very productive in
>the first few years after
>the burn but then the
>deer slowly, sometime rapidly start
>to disappear.
>Some people think that the nutritional
>values of the plants are
>depleted and then the deer
>are not as healthy, which
>can make them more susceptible
>to disease and being caught
>by predators.
>Just a thought but I have
>personally seen this play out
>on a couple different units
>already.
>
>
I would agree with your burn theory yes, I do believe that to be true.

But.....I left the burns as I previously mentioned a few times, to scour the mountain and talk with other hunters.
We went as high as we could go and as low as we could go and hunted every habitat change aside from trespassing in alfalfa fields.
Everyone we talked to at various points were all saying the same thing....."where have all our deer gone?"

Here's something I HAVEN'T mentioned yet. I spoke with 2 different forest service employees and they both said pretty much the same thing...."the deer numbers are way down" and "this unit just isn't what it was s few years ago".
Of course they had their personal theories, but neither had factual explanations and yet also shared their own disappointment about how the unit has ended up because they once enjoyed hunting it as well.
And these guys are on that mountain daily......go figure.
 
Ridge
Thank you for that link, I will most definitely dig into it.
I'm sure it's message is close to what the MDF works towards, which I am very involved with.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-18 AT 09:17AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-18 AT 09:15?AM (MST)

>Ridge
>Thank you for that link, I
>will most definitely dig into
>it.
>I'm sure it's message is close
>to what the MDF works
>towards, which I am very
>involved with.

Slamdunk,

Since MDF will be involved in 2 deer captures on the Book Cliffs in December (Dec 8 & Dec 11-12) and 2 more in February (Feb 25-26 & Feb 27-Mar 1) perhaps you may get your answers then, especially if the collars are the new GPS collars per Utah's Wildlife Migration Initiative, which track their locations several times per day via satellite instead of ground based radio signals. I don't know the specific locations and whether or not the deer will move very far, nor do I know how long the collars/batteries last or if the does have a vaginal implant to record the lambing site, but at least you'll know where they are/were at the time of capture, how healthy they are, and where they migrate to or from winter, summer, transition and yearlong ranges. Hopefully that information will be available to the public from the DWR. You should check with the Vernal office.

Edited: Also note that there is a bison capture Feb 23-24 and an elk capture Feb 25-26. And those are just the Book Cliffs projects MDF is involved with. There are other MDF projects on nearby units and probably other projects sponsored by RMEF, SFW, etc.
 
>Slamdunk,
>
>Since MDF will be involved in
>2 deer captures on the
>Book Cliffs in December (Dec
>8 & Dec 11-12) and
>2 more in February (Feb
>25-26 & Feb 27-Mar 1)
>perhaps you may get your
>answers then, especially if the
>collars are the new GPS
>collars per Utah's Wildlife Migration
>Initiative, which track their locations
>several times per day via
>satellite instead of ground based
>radio signals. I don't know
>the specific locations and whether
>or not the deer will
>move very far, nor do
>I know how long the
>collars/batteries last or if the
>does have a vaginal implant
>to record the lambing site,
>but at least you'll know
>where they are/were at the
>time of capture, how healthy
>they are, and where they
>migrate to or from winter,
>summer, transition and yearlong ranges.
>Hopefully that information will be
>available to the public from
>the DWR. You should check
>with the Vernal office.
>
>Edited: Also note that there is
>a bison capture Feb 23-24
>and an elk capture Feb
>25-26. And those are just
>the Book Cliffs projects MDF
>is involved with. There are
>other MDF projects on nearby
>units and probably other projects
>sponsored by RMEF, SFW, etc.
>

Thank you EFA!
My goal this year is to get more involved with the results from what we do with the MDF versus just the projects themselves.
I will gladly pass along any information I can gather.
 
74350fbimg1544145422723.jpg

This is a picture of my friend on the Beaver unit in 2009 on their property.
That wasn't all that long ago.....what has happened???
 
>
74350fbimg1544145422723.jpg

>This is a picture of my
>friend on the Beaver
>unit in 2009 on their
>property.
>That wasn't all that long ago.....what
>has happened???

Hey PUNK?

You got any More Pics of the Dear?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
When I was young, and the Tardville deer hunting was relatively good, the total population of the state was under 1,000,000 people. I just saw on TV the other night where it is now over 3,100,000. Luckily, the percentage of hunters is way lower or it would be even worse than it is.

I gave up on Utah ever having good deer hunting again about 40 years ago. The only "good" hunt I have had for deer in Utah the last 40 years was on a limited entry unit. and that unit is going steadily downhill. Since you can't put in for limited deer and elk hunts the same year anymore, I have never drawn a limited entry elk tag and probably never will, so I have never had a "good" elk hunt in Utah in my life.

I am seriously tempted to move to Wyoming, where the population is still well under 1,000,000, and the hunting is relatively good, but since I raised my family in Tardville, most of them are still Tards and my wife doesn't want to move away from them.

As a result, 98% of my hunting nowadays is as a spectator/meat hauler with my one Wyoming son and his family. That is still much better than a Utah hunt, in my opinion.

So, if you can't move to Wyoming, have a son move there and hunt with him every year, and then it won't matter so much how messed up Tardville has become.
 
>When I was young, and the
>Tardville deer hunting was relatively
>good, the total population of
>the state was under 1,000,000
>people. I just saw
>on TV the other night
>where it is now over
>3,100,000. Luckily, the percentage of
>hunters is way lower or
>it would be even worse
>than it is.
>
>I gave up on Utah ever
>having good deer hunting again
>about 40 years ago.
>The only "good" hunt I
>have had for deer in
>Utah the last 40 years
>was on a limited entry
>unit. and that unit is
>going steadily downhill. Since
>you can't put in for
>limited deer and elk hunts
>the same year anymore, I
>have never drawn a limited
>entry elk tag and probably
>never will, so I have
>never had a "good" elk
>hunt in Utah in my
>life.
>
>I am seriously tempted to move
>to Wyoming, where the population
>is still well under 1,000,000,
>and the hunting is relatively
>good, but since I raised
>my family in Tardville, most
>of them are still Tards
>and my wife doesn't want
>to move away from them.
>
>
>As a result, 98% of my
>hunting nowadays is as a
>spectator/meat hauler with my one
>Wyoming son and his family.
> That is still much
>better than a Utah hunt,
>in my opinion.
>
>So, if you can't move to
>Wyoming, have a son move
>there and hunt with him
>every year, and then it
>won't matter so much how
>messed up Tardville has become.
>


True that Paul!

There Ain't getting to be Less TARD Hunters in this State!

Many Reasons 'Why' this States Hunting is Screwed Up!

This State will Grow Big Bucks & Bulls just about anywhere if You'd Let Em Grow!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
We gonna do a little MAGIC Trick Here!

ABRA!

100_0914.JPG



F'N!

=

pexels-photo-259027.jpeg


Cadabra!

=

0.jpg









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 

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