landowner tag system.
- Thread starter billc
- Start date
B
Bullbreath
Guest
>compensation for losses or damage from
>game animals.
That is not even funny. One tag for 3000.00 will buy a semi truck load of feed. It is WAYYY beyond fair compensation in the #of tags many ranchers get. I better wear a bullet proof jacket for a few days. The "Cartel" will fire back shortly.
>game animals.
That is not even funny. One tag for 3000.00 will buy a semi truck load of feed. It is WAYYY beyond fair compensation in the #of tags many ranchers get. I better wear a bullet proof jacket for a few days. The "Cartel" will fire back shortly.
hunting1
Active Member
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- 868
Growing up in the midwest on our private land the imidiate family members were allowed to take a deer and it makes perfect sense, but we could not sell high $$$ hunts. My gripe is the unit wide or giving a guy up north a Gila tag for his damage????? 5-acres and a guy gets 10-tags. It just does not make sense, but I am guessing the LO had alot of power over our long-standing corrupt polliticians.
Good luck in the draw.
Good luck in the draw.
billc
Active Member
- Messages
- 680
I guess I look at this problem different then must.I think they want tags they should be for the unit they have land on which that we all seem to agree on.I think there tags should be unit wide other then in units that are over like 80% private land or ranches with like over 50,000 acres.Now I think there should be NO tags give to anyone under like 500 to 1000 acres of land used by animals not just walked through by an elk.I would like to see the land opened up for hunting if they want tags.Some great land would get opened up to all hunters.No more private land for all the animals to hide on for the few that can afford private land hunts.With some water and food very easy for the ranch to keep the elk or deer on the private ground plus the animals that get pressured of public ground.You want private land to lease or outfit on then no tags to sell.Just think of all the animals that get pressured on to this private ranches for just the hunting season. They get these tags for damage the animals cause but few let hunters help with that problem.So know they get tags to sell plus either lease or outfit the land and make more money.They get the tags to off setloses not to make a profit.I just think some great land could be opened up for all to enjoy.No as for rules for all to fallow.Well they get caught not letting people on they lose there tags and pay a fine for each tag they got to sell that year.As for the hunters you break the law you lose the right to ever hunt these places again.I think some places need to lose the tags they get but there are some great places I can see why they get them.So why not try and get that land to hunt for us all.May not be perfect but sure do think it would be better then what we get now.
billc
Active Member
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- 680
LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-11 AT 12:21PM (MST)[p]I just think they should get the tags for more then what an elk eats on there land.They should get it to help that problem but also for opening there land up to hunters.Since we all own the animals why not get something out of it like more land to hunt.Giving them the tags just makes them more money and the hunters get nothing out of it but high priced hunts or high price tags.And yes I have bought a landowner tag for my 12 year old from a ranch that lets people hunt there land.Would not buy myself one but want my son to enjoy hunting elk.
N
NMHuntaholic
Guest
What is wrong with the LO tag system?
Before you fire back:
How many water holes have you dug?
How many wells have you sunk?
How many windmills have you erected?
How many windmills have you serviced?
How many acres of alfalfa have you planted?
How many hours have you spent watering alfalfa?
How much dry land pasture have you planted?
How much fence have you mended due to elk breaks?
I think that we should be THANKING the landowners for creating habitat for game animals for us hunters. I don't see the Game and Fish or the Forest Service doing very much to improve habitat.
THANK YOU LAND OWNER!!!!
Before you fire back:
How many water holes have you dug?
How many wells have you sunk?
How many windmills have you erected?
How many windmills have you serviced?
How many acres of alfalfa have you planted?
How many hours have you spent watering alfalfa?
How much dry land pasture have you planted?
How much fence have you mended due to elk breaks?
I think that we should be THANKING the landowners for creating habitat for game animals for us hunters. I don't see the Game and Fish or the Forest Service doing very much to improve habitat.
THANK YOU LAND OWNER!!!!
billc
Active Member
- Messages
- 680
Come on now.I am for landowners, outfitters ,res and non res hunters.Don't act like they do all that work for the elk and deer.They do must of that for there cattle and crops.And your crazy if you think that they lose as much as some of these guys get for all there tags .some get dozen of tags and make between 2000.00 and 5000.oo for a single tag.Mind you year after year to.Now since some lease public land to raise there cows on and eat the elk food for next to nothing thats fair to right.They dont like the animals eating there food but few let hunters on to help with that problem.Its called being honest and up front the system is broke in many was from drawing a lic. right to landowner tags.If we take the best ideas and work them out Nm could be the best hunting state there is for all.What is so bad about the landowners giving more by opening up there land helps them with animal control and they still make money.They just dont get to double dip and lease or charge to lease there land to.Win for everyone other then those just looking at the $
1FastGambler
Active Member
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- 982
NM Hunt, you have made some very valid points that so many people are failing to take into consideration. Private land owners and ranchers with grazing leases on both state, forest, & BLM land have built the vast majority of all water sources in NM. Our habitat stamp program and various conservation groups have also contributed signifigantly. However, the private land owners are the ones we need to thank because they are the ones who have made the biggest impact to the carrying capacity of millions of acres in NM. It is a also a fact that all their blood, sweat, & tears that went into creating all these water sources were not intended to supply elk & deer, they were created for cattle.
In my opinion people better be careful because there is nothing we can do to force the hand of a private land rancher that will force them to allow wildlife to drink "their" water, or eat "their" grass. It's THEIR land people!!
In my favorite elk hunting unit, if 100% of the landowner tags were to go into the public draw it would increase my odds of drawing a tag by LESS than 1%. Woop-de-do.
Elk destroy fences, and consume vast amounts of grass & especially alfalfa if the can access it, plus they can empty a water hole leaving no water for the ranchers cattle.
All of these things must be taken to heart before jumping to half thought out solutions. Landowners do deserve some type of compensation for what they do.
Look, I don't like the current landowner tag allocation system either. Nor do I think that anyone can compare NM to any other state. NM is very unique, nowhere else in North America has the variety of habitat types or the square miles of habitat that Elk can & do live in. Colorado has a lot more elk than we do, but they do not have elk that eat flowers off of cactus either.
* Landowner contributions that benefit wildlife needs to be recognized.
* Landowner depredation deserves some type of compensation
* SCR system needs serious restructuring
Millions of acres of private land ARE open to public hunting. Every ranch that receives unitwide elk tags MUST allow equal access to their land. We do have a serious problem with ranches receiving unitwide tags that lock all their gates and block roads, but allow full access to the hunters who buy their tags. This really is criminal and needs to be addressed and dealt with.
Like I said before, our FIRST order of business MUST be to abolish the Jennings law. If you don't know what it is, look it up. Our ungulates are being shot by landowners with zero reprocussions unless they fail to notify the G&F within 24 hours and even then they only receive a $500.00 fine.
Personally I think this law needs to go away and then if a landowner kills elk, deer, antelope, deer, etc. he needs to face the same penalties as a poacher does. But rather than focus on punishment for killing the animals, a better solution is to require the landowner to call G&F so that the G&F can in turn call the next person on the depredation list, BUT there does need to be some type of reimbursement financially to the landowner to help pay for whatever damage the ungulate has caused.
I've heard a thousand complaints about 5 acre ranches that receive elk tags. I personally have a friend in Colorado that purchased a small ranch here in NM just so he can get a landowner tag. He does not run cattle on this ranch, nor does he care if the fences get torn down. This is wrong in many ways, however I don't blame my friend for following the stupid rules we have, I blame the Jennings law. Without the Jennings law, landowners could no longer hold this over our heads by threatening to just shoot all the elk or deer or antelope if they don't get tags for compensation.
So how can we keep the land owners happy so that they will continue to allow wildlife to drink their water, eat their grass, and allow the public to access their land "equally" while hunting? Have you even thought about this or are you just going to keep complaining without thinking of possible solutions?
See thread titled "Food for thought".
"Windage & Elevation Pilgrim, Windage & Elevation"
In my opinion people better be careful because there is nothing we can do to force the hand of a private land rancher that will force them to allow wildlife to drink "their" water, or eat "their" grass. It's THEIR land people!!
In my favorite elk hunting unit, if 100% of the landowner tags were to go into the public draw it would increase my odds of drawing a tag by LESS than 1%. Woop-de-do.
Elk destroy fences, and consume vast amounts of grass & especially alfalfa if the can access it, plus they can empty a water hole leaving no water for the ranchers cattle.
All of these things must be taken to heart before jumping to half thought out solutions. Landowners do deserve some type of compensation for what they do.
Look, I don't like the current landowner tag allocation system either. Nor do I think that anyone can compare NM to any other state. NM is very unique, nowhere else in North America has the variety of habitat types or the square miles of habitat that Elk can & do live in. Colorado has a lot more elk than we do, but they do not have elk that eat flowers off of cactus either.
* Landowner contributions that benefit wildlife needs to be recognized.
* Landowner depredation deserves some type of compensation
* SCR system needs serious restructuring
Millions of acres of private land ARE open to public hunting. Every ranch that receives unitwide elk tags MUST allow equal access to their land. We do have a serious problem with ranches receiving unitwide tags that lock all their gates and block roads, but allow full access to the hunters who buy their tags. This really is criminal and needs to be addressed and dealt with.
Like I said before, our FIRST order of business MUST be to abolish the Jennings law. If you don't know what it is, look it up. Our ungulates are being shot by landowners with zero reprocussions unless they fail to notify the G&F within 24 hours and even then they only receive a $500.00 fine.
Personally I think this law needs to go away and then if a landowner kills elk, deer, antelope, deer, etc. he needs to face the same penalties as a poacher does. But rather than focus on punishment for killing the animals, a better solution is to require the landowner to call G&F so that the G&F can in turn call the next person on the depredation list, BUT there does need to be some type of reimbursement financially to the landowner to help pay for whatever damage the ungulate has caused.
I've heard a thousand complaints about 5 acre ranches that receive elk tags. I personally have a friend in Colorado that purchased a small ranch here in NM just so he can get a landowner tag. He does not run cattle on this ranch, nor does he care if the fences get torn down. This is wrong in many ways, however I don't blame my friend for following the stupid rules we have, I blame the Jennings law. Without the Jennings law, landowners could no longer hold this over our heads by threatening to just shoot all the elk or deer or antelope if they don't get tags for compensation.
So how can we keep the land owners happy so that they will continue to allow wildlife to drink their water, eat their grass, and allow the public to access their land "equally" while hunting? Have you even thought about this or are you just going to keep complaining without thinking of possible solutions?
See thread titled "Food for thought".
"Windage & Elevation Pilgrim, Windage & Elevation"
billc
Active Member
- Messages
- 680
Never said they should not get anything.They did not build anything just for wildlife and if a elk drinks out of there tank will thats a cost of business.I do believe the animals were here before the rancher so why do they have the right to say who eats the grass.Even if they have animals in there planted fields they get to write off loses at the end of the year.As for a fence that is down because of an elk again cost of business and you dont think a cows knock any down.There always two sides but there is middle ground that is fair for all.They should not get all the credit or should be stopped from getting some of there loses back with a tags system.Just needs to be fair for all.I can gurantee alot more money is made then lost with this system now.Yes alot do open up there ranch and glad they do and thank s to all of them.I have a problem when someone is making money on tags that the answer could be letting someone hunt there ranch to help keep the animals away.Why let someone double dip in to the system by selling tags and leasing land or outfitting on it and make all that money.When they sell there 10,000 dollar private ranch hunt all of a sudden the elk that are so bad are just great to them.I never heard of a law that said animals can not go on private land.Its there job to keep animals out of the places they dont want them in.They can do things to animals that cause alot of damage but with in limits.Stop looking at what you just want to see and look at the whole picture.The system is not fair and needs changed.They are getting money for game on there land which is through tags.We buy tags to hunt so land should be opened to all.Like I said I bought a tag and will do again for my son.To make the system better everyone needs to give some and that includes hunters, landowners and outfitters.
LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-11 AT 07:30PM (MST)[p]>Let the LO shoot away it
>don't take animals long to
>figure out where they can't
>be safely. They won't kill
>as many as they get
>tags for. Well maybe cows
>but not trphy bulls.
You can't be serious?
The landowner tag situation needs attention, but there are alot of factors to consider. First everyone will agree the Jennings law needs to be repealed. Second there are four different types of landowner tags which all deserve to be looked at seperately. You have outside of the core ranches which are all designated ranch only, these ranches should remain the way they are now. These include all of unit 4, and alot of the units in the northeast area of the state. These units are almost completely private ground, and most of these ranches are very large. Hell some of them have elk that live out their entire lives without leaving the property. Second you have ranch only tags in the e-plus program. I see no reason to attack these landowners either, they are providing habitat to our elk. Alot of these landowners have had these ranches passed down through their families for generations, many of which had no elk on them until the comparitivily recent past. As a public draw hunter you have a snowballs chance in hell of hunting these properties no matter what you do with their tags. If you take their tags away they will just charge trespass fees( no different from what you have now basically). Third you have unit wide tags in the e-plus program. These are also ranches which provide habitat for our elk. The unit wide tag was put in place to compensate the rancher who has depradation problems at times of the year other than hunting season. In other words they figure this ranchers ability to be compensated by a tag only helps if there are elk to hunt at the time. Since the elk are on his property in july but not sept, or Oct he gets a tag. These ranches need to be given the oppurtunity to change to ranch only and stay in the e-plus system. If they decide not to then that is their prerogative. Do away with the unit wide tag! Some will argue that this closes properties to the public hunter, Yes but are you really losing anything if they needed a UW tag so they could go hunt the forest while you are tromping around on their ranch? If these ranches are truely experiencing depradation problems then hold a depredation hunt! At the point the jennings law is gone these ranches either go ranch only, except the dep hunt, or except the elk. Fourth you have the SCR or small contributing ranches. Almost all of these ranches get unit wide tags. A large portion of them actually contribute nothing. Some of them do though. The ones that do should be able to prove that they have elk on their property. If they can, give them a ranch only tag, let them hunt any season they want or even all of them for that matter. If they can't prove they have elk on their property then they are out and that tag can be put back into the public draw. A lot of these properties were purchased for the sole reason of getting an elk tag. Some are as small as 3 acres. If I have 5 acres that I raise no crops or livestock on, which had an elk walk acrossed it 2 years ago do I deserve a tag? Right now out of all of the landowner elk tags there are close to 3000 UW tags each year. With all of these changes I would guess you would put around 2500 tags back in the draw considering the e-plus ranches that would except the ranch only tags. In my opinion the premium units will see the smallest increase in tags because they have mostly big ranches which are deservedly recieving RO tags.
Theres my 2.5 cents
Jason
>don't take animals long to
>figure out where they can't
>be safely. They won't kill
>as many as they get
>tags for. Well maybe cows
>but not trphy bulls.
You can't be serious?
The landowner tag situation needs attention, but there are alot of factors to consider. First everyone will agree the Jennings law needs to be repealed. Second there are four different types of landowner tags which all deserve to be looked at seperately. You have outside of the core ranches which are all designated ranch only, these ranches should remain the way they are now. These include all of unit 4, and alot of the units in the northeast area of the state. These units are almost completely private ground, and most of these ranches are very large. Hell some of them have elk that live out their entire lives without leaving the property. Second you have ranch only tags in the e-plus program. I see no reason to attack these landowners either, they are providing habitat to our elk. Alot of these landowners have had these ranches passed down through their families for generations, many of which had no elk on them until the comparitivily recent past. As a public draw hunter you have a snowballs chance in hell of hunting these properties no matter what you do with their tags. If you take their tags away they will just charge trespass fees( no different from what you have now basically). Third you have unit wide tags in the e-plus program. These are also ranches which provide habitat for our elk. The unit wide tag was put in place to compensate the rancher who has depradation problems at times of the year other than hunting season. In other words they figure this ranchers ability to be compensated by a tag only helps if there are elk to hunt at the time. Since the elk are on his property in july but not sept, or Oct he gets a tag. These ranches need to be given the oppurtunity to change to ranch only and stay in the e-plus system. If they decide not to then that is their prerogative. Do away with the unit wide tag! Some will argue that this closes properties to the public hunter, Yes but are you really losing anything if they needed a UW tag so they could go hunt the forest while you are tromping around on their ranch? If these ranches are truely experiencing depradation problems then hold a depredation hunt! At the point the jennings law is gone these ranches either go ranch only, except the dep hunt, or except the elk. Fourth you have the SCR or small contributing ranches. Almost all of these ranches get unit wide tags. A large portion of them actually contribute nothing. Some of them do though. The ones that do should be able to prove that they have elk on their property. If they can, give them a ranch only tag, let them hunt any season they want or even all of them for that matter. If they can't prove they have elk on their property then they are out and that tag can be put back into the public draw. A lot of these properties were purchased for the sole reason of getting an elk tag. Some are as small as 3 acres. If I have 5 acres that I raise no crops or livestock on, which had an elk walk acrossed it 2 years ago do I deserve a tag? Right now out of all of the landowner elk tags there are close to 3000 UW tags each year. With all of these changes I would guess you would put around 2500 tags back in the draw considering the e-plus ranches that would except the ranch only tags. In my opinion the premium units will see the smallest increase in tags because they have mostly big ranches which are deservedly recieving RO tags.
Theres my 2.5 cents
Jason
N
NMHuntaholic
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-11 AT 10:53PM (MST)[p]There is no reason to attack the Ranches. They need to make a living too. Most work very hard and make very little money. Some ranchers wrongly lock their gates, but maybe it is because of the problems caused by those hunters with bad attitudes towards ranchers, their property and lively hoods.
Would you want someone who you don't know to come and play in your house, leave the doors open, drive on your lawn, cut the fence in your yard and shoot up your dog's water bowl? Oh yeah, and not even ask for permission.
I do agree that there has to be minimum requirement to qualify for LO tags. Currently, the small contributing ranches requirements needs a lot of improvement.
I also agree that in most cases the ranchers do not improve habit for the benefit of game animals, but, we hunters do benefit from the ranchers work. We need to be careful not to cut off the hand that feeds us.
Additionally, I believe that the environmentalists and the forest service are working hard to keep hunters and ranchers off forest service lands. We hunters and ranchers need to stick together to preserve our hunting and ranching rights.
Would you want someone who you don't know to come and play in your house, leave the doors open, drive on your lawn, cut the fence in your yard and shoot up your dog's water bowl? Oh yeah, and not even ask for permission.
I do agree that there has to be minimum requirement to qualify for LO tags. Currently, the small contributing ranches requirements needs a lot of improvement.
I also agree that in most cases the ranchers do not improve habit for the benefit of game animals, but, we hunters do benefit from the ranchers work. We need to be careful not to cut off the hand that feeds us.
Additionally, I believe that the environmentalists and the forest service are working hard to keep hunters and ranchers off forest service lands. We hunters and ranchers need to stick together to preserve our hunting and ranching rights.
billc
Active Member
- Messages
- 680
What does everyone think a fair min. would be for ranch size to get tags.I hope we can stop singling out any one side an talk about what might help fix the problem.I just think there needs to be better guide lines on a program that affects so many people.I posted my ideas up on this post early and would like to see if people think they are that far off.Maybe I am different but When I did alot of hunting around my area in PA.I would go out help the local farmer do things for letting me hunt his land.
1manshow
Active Member
- Messages
- 211
>What is wrong with the LO
>tag system?
>
>Before you fire back:
>How many water holes have you
>dug?
>How many wells have you sunk?
>
>How many windmills have you erected?
>
>How many windmills have you serviced?
>
>How many acres of alfalfa have
>you planted?
>How many hours have you spent
>watering alfalfa?
>How much dry land pasture have
>you planted?
>How much fence have you mended
>due to elk breaks?
>
>I think that we should be
>THANKING the landowners for creating
>habitat for game animals for
>us hunters. I don't see
>the Game and Fish or
>the Forest Service doing very
>much to improve habitat.
>
>THANK YOU LAND OWNER!!!!
Great post!!! Alot of people just dont understand...
>tag system?
>
>Before you fire back:
>How many water holes have you
>dug?
>How many wells have you sunk?
>
>How many windmills have you erected?
>
>How many windmills have you serviced?
>
>How many acres of alfalfa have
>you planted?
>How many hours have you spent
>watering alfalfa?
>How much dry land pasture have
>you planted?
>How much fence have you mended
>due to elk breaks?
>
>I think that we should be
>THANKING the landowners for creating
>habitat for game animals for
>us hunters. I don't see
>the Game and Fish or
>the Forest Service doing very
>much to improve habitat.
>
>THANK YOU LAND OWNER!!!!
Great post!!! Alot of people just dont understand...
B
Bullbreath
Guest
I would love to see the income/cost of living comparisions of a majority of LO/ranchers 20 years ago and now. Most have worked/abused the system within the last 20 years of screaming to Game and fish "bloody murder, the elk are destroying everything, the baby needs a new pair of shoes, GIVE US MORE TAGS" There are litterally a few hundred ranchers that make much more or as much money off elk than cattle. The quality has been drastically effected in units like 9,15,6c,34 etc and (just example) if the Game and fish sold those tags and made effort, we would see alot more water tanks fixed on public land and habitat improvements way beyond the LO/OF cartel does. I suppose I would be sue/tag happy too, if there were big bucks to be made. We are correcting this issue and doing was is right. I sincerely believe those who speak out at G&F meetings as this thing gets closer to getting corrected, may want to look out for there safety by being alert, I just sayin.
N
NMHuntaholic
Guest
Sounds like at threat, I am just saying.
What do you have against Americans making a living?
Also, ELK populations have grown greatly from 20 years ago, however, beef and wool prices are sharply down.
What do you have against Americans making a living?
Also, ELK populations have grown greatly from 20 years ago, however, beef and wool prices are sharply down.
B
Bullbreath
Guest
"What do you have against Americans making a living?"
Glad your honest about being a elk rancher. I am sure at the G&F meetings you are happily identified as a cattle rancher. What was supposed to be a buffer for loss of feed by giving a 2000,00 plus tag or two has turned into "elk industry ranches" who get thousands of dollars in elk tags, which any honest rancher would admit more than compensates for losses. The intent is to absorb any loss/damages by a little compensation has turned into BIG compensation. So, yes I do have a problem with you identifying elk tags with your "making a living" instead of being thankful for even compensation. Oh, and you are safe from threats from "joe resident" other than getting you back to more "cattle ranching". Sincerely
Glad your honest about being a elk rancher. I am sure at the G&F meetings you are happily identified as a cattle rancher. What was supposed to be a buffer for loss of feed by giving a 2000,00 plus tag or two has turned into "elk industry ranches" who get thousands of dollars in elk tags, which any honest rancher would admit more than compensates for losses. The intent is to absorb any loss/damages by a little compensation has turned into BIG compensation. So, yes I do have a problem with you identifying elk tags with your "making a living" instead of being thankful for even compensation. Oh, and you are safe from threats from "joe resident" other than getting you back to more "cattle ranching". Sincerely
N
NYNMMT13
Guest
As a NR of this state, I find the proposed 2% draw odds very appauling! NR's should not be forced into the hands of guides/outfitters to have any chance at all in obtaining a tag. What is wrong with you people? Why would you decrease the NR percentage, and push away business that your state depends on in this economic crisis? I fully support the 90/10 for residents, but am totally against the 8% going to outfitters. You've definately made one helluva statement, and NR's were listening!
philthy
Active Member
- Messages
- 597
Listen up knucklehead! You're ABSOLUTELY off base if you think residents want this the way it is. Have you been in a coma, or just ignored the posts on other threads? Good Lord man, the last thing anyone wants to do is push away NR. Good ole NM politics is involved and "we the people" have to push for what it is right. Of course, bein from New York or maybe I'm wrong by looking at your handle, you may not know how things work here. That's ALL of us need, resident and non-resident, is someone shooting from the hip like your comments. Instead of huffin and puffin, why don't you JOIN the residents to see what WE can do to get past the cartel? I just knew something like this would come up...hope the outfitters are happy. I sincerely hope we the people get our way and they have to work for their business like every other establishment in NM does.
Look, it took me FIVE years to draw mt THRIRD choice here in NM as a resident....Unit 50 no less! During that time, all I wanted was a damn cow tag. Couldn't even draw that as a resident.
Go ahead and cry me a tear. You NRs are either with us or against us in breaking this back.
Look, it took me FIVE years to draw mt THRIRD choice here in NM as a resident....Unit 50 no less! During that time, all I wanted was a damn cow tag. Couldn't even draw that as a resident.
Go ahead and cry me a tear. You NRs are either with us or against us in breaking this back.
swivelhead
Member
- Messages
- 85
Gettin' a hog away from a trough ain't easy. You gotta get mean! LOL
NM residents might want to consider a 90/10 split for LO tags. After all, wildlife belongs to the people of NM. Suspect LO tag prices would drop substantially if only 10% could be sold to NR's.
NM residents might want to consider a 90/10 split for LO tags. After all, wildlife belongs to the people of NM. Suspect LO tag prices would drop substantially if only 10% could be sold to NR's.
Gator
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 18,135
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-11 AT 09:52AM (MST)[p]Most Landowners have paid their dues with their choice on living their life style,Seem like you guys are thinking that big ranch is a pretty easy Gig. I guess what I'm seeing is land envy. If you think a rancher will let you on his land just because the state is asking or telling him too, it the same deal as the state just can't walk into your home either, I don't think most of you know how a rancher thinks, If the Jenning act is repealed the F&G will just have to pony up money for the damages to his place and the state will either charge more for licenses or cut back on the amount of elk and deer in that area,Because a Rancher doesn't have to let anyone on his place BUT F&G has to keep the damages to his place at a minimum, The rancher has the best ground for a elk or deer to feed on so the answer would be for the F&G to fence off the ranchers land if they don't want to pay a huge damage bill, (have you been to Unit 10) tons of ranches are fenced off there,
Like the poster up above said how many water tanks have you put in. Better get ready to put in alot of them if the ranchers are fenced off because most of the best watertanks are on their lands.
Wildlife is a part of a ranchers income but if those animals aren't eating his grass and hay and such he can run more cows it that simple put him in that corner and that what he will do would love to see the price tag on the F&G fences for some of those ranches, last I heard it was like $30,000 to fence a mile with Elk fence but that will be cheap to keep from paying year after year crop damages. Still looking for a clue.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
Like the poster up above said how many water tanks have you put in. Better get ready to put in alot of them if the ranchers are fenced off because most of the best watertanks are on their lands.
Wildlife is a part of a ranchers income but if those animals aren't eating his grass and hay and such he can run more cows it that simple put him in that corner and that what he will do would love to see the price tag on the F&G fences for some of those ranches, last I heard it was like $30,000 to fence a mile with Elk fence but that will be cheap to keep from paying year after year crop damages. Still looking for a clue.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
B
Bullbreath
Guest
I am sick and tired of the garbage. SO you really think that elk profit is not just that. You expect us to be nieve enough to believe that all those large profits off our states natural resources for LOs are being eaten up in repairs? I got some oceanfront property in Arizona. Is there a group set up yet that we can donate time to build/repair tanks OFF private land. Obviously they are not concerned about the huge amount of tags they take from the public.
Gator
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 18,135
Get that group going,I thinkl you're goin to need them pretty quick. Wait until you run into the red tape,environental study,BLM or FS permissiom to build, Better hope NMWF is there to help LOL The time it takes to do this is long, they don't happen over night, You have just shown you don't crap about what it takes to put in a water tank or a water source on public land and how much money it takes to get all the clearances to do so.
Hell I thought you would believe in what is the truth and not the fairy tale NMWF is feeding you.
We will sit back and watch how great this will turnout for the NM residents now.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
Hell I thought you would believe in what is the truth and not the fairy tale NMWF is feeding you.
We will sit back and watch how great this will turnout for the NM residents now.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
B
Bullbreath
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-11 AT 12:53PM (MST)[p]>Get that group going,I thinkl you're
>goin to need them pretty
>quick. Wait until you run
>into the red tape,environental study,BLM
>or FS permissiom to build,
>Better hope NMWF is there
>to help LOL The time
>it takes to do this
>is long, they don't happen
>over night, You have just
>shown you don't crap about
>what it takes to put
>in a water tank or
>a water source on public
>land and how much money
>it takes to get all
>the clearances to do so.
>
>Hell I thought you would believe
>in what is the truth
>and not the fairy tale
>NMWF is feeding you.
>We will sit back and watch
>how great this will turnout
>for the NM residents now.
>
>
>"I have found if you go
>the extra mile it's Never
>crowded".
It is getting easier to flush them out, Wow. You have us just give up. Sorry, it aint going to happen. It is kinda like the new governor says, we have to remove alot of regulation. Lets start with repairing existing ones and no it might not be lakes all over public lands next year, but we can start a little work. One by one we will remove the pedestools to the podium (some)LOs/OFs have been whinning/abusing our natural resources from. It will be discussed during the UBNM meeting this week. So you may want to shift your attacks toward them now. Not sure about the NMWF, but some other groups might have a few ideas to bring down the cartel also. Take care.
>goin to need them pretty
>quick. Wait until you run
>into the red tape,environental study,BLM
>or FS permissiom to build,
>Better hope NMWF is there
>to help LOL The time
>it takes to do this
>is long, they don't happen
>over night, You have just
>shown you don't crap about
>what it takes to put
>in a water tank or
>a water source on public
>land and how much money
>it takes to get all
>the clearances to do so.
>
>Hell I thought you would believe
>in what is the truth
>and not the fairy tale
>NMWF is feeding you.
>We will sit back and watch
>how great this will turnout
>for the NM residents now.
>
>
>"I have found if you go
>the extra mile it's Never
>crowded".
It is getting easier to flush them out, Wow. You have us just give up. Sorry, it aint going to happen. It is kinda like the new governor says, we have to remove alot of regulation. Lets start with repairing existing ones and no it might not be lakes all over public lands next year, but we can start a little work. One by one we will remove the pedestools to the podium (some)LOs/OFs have been whinning/abusing our natural resources from. It will be discussed during the UBNM meeting this week. So you may want to shift your attacks toward them now. Not sure about the NMWF, but some other groups might have a few ideas to bring down the cartel also. Take care.
N
NMHuntaholic
Guest
I myself am not a rancher, but I have uncles who are, so I get to see first hand how the attitudes of a few individuals like "bullbreath" can stink it up for us hunters.
I do not benefit financially from either ranching or hunting, but I am appreciative for the benefits hunters get from what ranchers do.
I do not benefit financially from either ranching or hunting, but I am appreciative for the benefits hunters get from what ranchers do.
Gator
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 18,135
The same thing happen out here the majority rules it don't matter if it is right or wrong the people with the most votes wins (can't hunt MT lions or trap with leg holds) Now if they was really going to help it a good thing. But I don't see the State kicking down the money you will need to put in those water tanks,or put up those fences around the ranches that don't want the animals or the hunters. What I see is them raising the money thru the resident hunters with higher tags and license fees, maybe you will get lucky like they did out here and have a PARKING FEE if park your car in the Forest that you have to buy every year too.
I hope it turns out the way you believe it will, BUT I have my doubts that it will.The 10 years it will take to prove it right or wrong will be the answer. Just glad I don't own a small business down there that is depended on the money from NR hunters, if you do own one please sell it to one of the guys who don't think it will hurt.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
I hope it turns out the way you believe it will, BUT I have my doubts that it will.The 10 years it will take to prove it right or wrong will be the answer. Just glad I don't own a small business down there that is depended on the money from NR hunters, if you do own one please sell it to one of the guys who don't think it will hurt.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
B
Bullbreath
Guest
NNHuntaholic, It is obvious you have family in the Ranching business as you say. Please read my post with the "quote" and tell me who has the bad attitude? Back at you.
Just a thought? NM is a free range state. If I don't want your livestock on my property, it is my responibility to fence them out. If I shoot your cow for being on my property (depradation) it is a felony. How is my elk (as a citizen of NM) on your property any different? Why should G&F have to build the fences? If anyone doesn't believe its a free range state just call your brand inspector when the neihbors horses break thru your fence to get water.
Jason
Jason
Gator
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 18,135
Livestock is in a different category(personal property) then wildlife(Public property) it just like you can't trespass on my property either to get to public land on other side of it.
But you are right about it being a free range State. But that is for Private property(cattle,Pigs,Horses, ect) coming on to a ranchers property, He then has to protect his land from them by fencing. NOT the same deal as when Wildlife comes on your land damages it.Better try and change that law too, because I think you guys may need it changed before it over. LOL.
They wouldn't call in a resident Swat team they will have a G&F team do the dirty work, so the state can pay both ways.
Check out Unit 10 and see how they fenced off those ranches down there.We see a bunch that was fenced off last year.
That what you guys have in store, coming to the unit near you soon fences and more fences.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
But you are right about it being a free range State. But that is for Private property(cattle,Pigs,Horses, ect) coming on to a ranchers property, He then has to protect his land from them by fencing. NOT the same deal as when Wildlife comes on your land damages it.Better try and change that law too, because I think you guys may need it changed before it over. LOL.
They wouldn't call in a resident Swat team they will have a G&F team do the dirty work, so the state can pay both ways.
Check out Unit 10 and see how they fenced off those ranches down there.We see a bunch that was fenced off last year.
That what you guys have in store, coming to the unit near you soon fences and more fences.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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