Henry Mountain Deer

[Shadow]

When the best are gone, only the best are left.

 

[elkassassin]

And When 2 Points/PISSCUTTERS Become Big They'll Still Be Paraded Around in Trucks & Posted On Social Media Like They Kicked The Hunting World in The Ass!

When the best are gone, only the best are left.

 

[Delta]

This is why people will sit on points forever

 

[Shadow]

And When 2 Points/PISSCUTTERS Become Big They'll Still Be Paraded Around in Trucks & Posted On Social Media Like They Kicked The Hunting World in The Ass!

The notion that anyone who draws the Henries tag is entitled to a 200” buck is absurd. Should they cut the tags to Antelope Island numbers so that everyone who draws (all two of them) can kill a giant?

 

[ridgetops]

And When 2 Points/PISSCUTTERS Become Big They'll Still Be Paraded Around in Trucks & Posted On Social Media Like They Kicked The Hunting World in The Ass!

And why is it wrong for someone to be proud of what they kill, no matter the size?

 

[elkassassin]

I Didn't Say It Was Wrong!

But When That's All That's Left BE PROUD OF THAT LITTLE BASATARD!

[/QUOTE="elkassassin, post: 2024045, member: 1706"]
And When 2 Points/PISSCUTTERS Become Big They'll Still Be Paraded Around in Trucks & Posted On Social Media Like They Kicked The Hunting World in The Ass!

And why is it wrong for someone to be proud of what they kill, no matter the size?
[/QUOTE]

 

[eelgrass]

What happened to the Henry's? Like everywhere else, they got loved to death.

 

[Delta]

To many tags. All the BS expo, auction, and everything else.

 

[walleye1121]

Numbers don't lie.

 

[elkassassin]

A PREMIUM LIMITED ENTRY HUNT!

The Best We Have To Offer!

Everybody that Pulls a Tag Attitude:

220"+ Or Bust!

Not a F'N 40"ER in the Bunch!

One That Broke 220"!

Looks Like Most Lowered Their Standards!

And I'll GUARAN-GAWD-DAMN-TEE You The Cream of the Crop were Harvested!

 

[walleye1121]

Really just one over 195.
The 220 was unofficial and I saw the photos, I would like to see the official score.
I got to participate in 4 hunts there since 2008 and the problem is not deer population. It is entirely the lack of quality bucks. The management hunts ruined this unit. The difference over those roughly 15 years is hard to put into words.
It is not the same unit.

 

[JakeH]

Really just one over 195.
The 220 was unofficial and I saw the photos, I would like to see the official score.
I got to participate in 4 hunts there since 2008 and the problem is not deer population. It is entirely the lack of quality bucks. The management hunts ruined this unit. The difference over those roughly 15 years is hard to put into words.
It is not the same unit.

How did the management hunts ruin the unit?

 

[elkassassin]

Some BAWLED For A Management Velvet Buck Hunt!

Some BAWLED For a F'N 4X3 Hunt!

Now Some Are BAWLING For a F'N 3X2 Hunt!

Now We Got People Wondering WTF Happened!

GEEZUS!

 

[elkassassin]

 

[pauns08]

100% agree with the getting rid of the outfitters, it's ridiculous anymore they have the hunter and then 40 spotters all over the mountain, the average Joe doesn't have a chance anymore. Most the guys killing the giants don't even know how to hunt they just have money, get rid of guys like that and we'd be back in business.

 

[JakeH]

Some BAWLED For A Management Velvet Buck Hunt!

Some BAWLED For a F'N 4X3 Hunt!

Now Some Are BAWLING For a F'N 3X2 Hunt!

Now We Got People Wondering WTF Happened!

GEEZUS!

Bess do explain how the management hunts have ruined the units?

Those cactus buck hunts haven't done **** to ruin the pauns. Killing a few 3x3 and 3x4 bucks that most people with a pauns or henerys tag would not kill has not ruined those units if they have please do explain. I would like to understand the logic behind it.

 

[elkassassin]

This Wasn't Aimed at You JakeH But!

The Henry's Deer Herd Has Never Been a Big Deer Herd Number Wise!

Not All!

But Some of the Big 4X3's that Got Whacked woulda been a HELL of alot Bigger in Following Years!

For F Sakes!

Now We Got Opportunists wanting a F'N 3X2 Hunt in a Unit that is Already Struggling!

Am I the Only One That Has Seen the Quality of the Henry's Herd take a Major Hit in the Last Several Years?

And To Top it off!

Just like everywhere else in this State!

Just Keep Taking the Cream of the Crop Every Year Knowing You're Taking a little more than You Should & See what Happens to the Herd in Following years!

Bess do explain how the management hunts have ruined the units?

Those cactus buck hunts haven't done **** to ruin the pauns. Killing a few 3x3 and 3x4 bucks that most people with a pauns or henerys tag would not kill has not ruined those units if they have please do explain. I would like to understand the logic behind it.

 

[buckhorn]

I agree with cutting way back on the amount of outfitters.
They also need to be included in the trail camera, baiting and other restrictions issues.
In fact I think outfitters should have to draw for a very limited number of guiding permits for each unit.
I don’t mean guide tags I mean a guiding permit.
Example:
Set the number of guiding permits on the Henry’s at two permits.
Pauns, four permits.
OC, one permit.
The guides would pay an application fee and also an additional permit fee if drawn.
Each outfitter will be limited on the number of guiding permits allowed per unit per year.

 

[Vanilla]

Just Keep Taking the Cream of the Crop Every Year Knowing You're Taking a little more than You Should & See what Happens to the Herd in Following years!

Bessy, this is a question that remains with me that I would really like to understand better. You criticize people killing the young ones. You criticize people taking out the “cream of the crop.” Which bucks exactly are you okay with people killing?

Don’t give me some rambling post about “HELL RIGHT!” Just tell me which bucks hunters should be able to kill in your world.

 

[buckhorn]

I agree with cutting way back on the amount of outfitters.
They also need to be included in the trail camera, baiting and other restrictions issues.
In fact I think outfitters should have to draw for a very limited number of guiding permits for each unit.
I don’t mean guide tags I mean a guiding permit.
Example:
Set the number of guiding permits on the Henry’s at two permits.
Pauns, four permits.
OC, one permit.
The guides would pay an application fee and also an additional permit fee if drawn.
Each outfitter will be limited on the number of guiding permits allowed per unit per year.

Of course they will get a bonus point for each hunt they don’t draw lol.

 

[buckhorn]

Bessy, this is a question that remains with me that I would really like to understand better. You criticize people killing the young ones. You criticize people taking out the “cream of the crop.” Which bucks exactly are you okay with people killing?

Don’t give me some rambling post about “HELL RIGHT!” Just tell me which bucks hunters should be able to kill in your world.

I think I get what elkass is saying.

We want to see some nice mature Bucks with some decent antlers.
Also it would be really nice to know that some of the better ones are making it through the hunting seasons.
The way it is now all of the best are getting taken out. Which over time is lowering the bar on what the top end is and that’s why the top end quality is declining.

If you are an opportunity hunter or a meat hunter you may not understand.

However this is Monster Muleys and I think most members on here like the big antlers.

 

[Elknut33]

I'm doing research for the Sportsman deer tag this year. I spoke to the biologist for the Henry unit and he confirmed some of the rumors I have been hearing. The unit as a whole is struggling! It is managed to have 40 bucks per 100 does, 2020 it was in the 30's buck per 100 doe, and 2021 the count projections were in the high 20's buck per 100 doe. The numbers don't lie, too many bucks have been getting killed (hunting, predation, age, etc.) to sustain the goal numbers. This is one reason the management hunt has been eliminated. The drought is a factor as well, but by and large the unit got shot out.

 

[Vanilla]

If you are an opportunity hunter or a meat hunter you may not understand.

However this is Monster Muleys and I think most members on here like the big antlers.

Of course we all like big antlers. So do those that are killing the top end, cream of the crop bucks. Are they supposed to pass the biggest bucks so that you and Bess can have them all to yourself?

 

[walleye1121]

The first years of the management hunts they probably culled some of the crazy bucks with strange genetics.
Then those crazy 3 x 11 bucks were gone and the the management hunters were looking for the biggest buck they could find with only three on one side.
Then they added archery tags to the management pool. Many of those hunters were hunting the biggest three points they could find.
The problem is that many of these big framed 3 points and 3x4 bucks were just young bucks. They had great potential, big frames, heavy horns, they were just young.
So, they culled many bucks carrying the genetics that made that mountain special.
You can't cull young deer because you can't see the true potential in them.
Ask anyone who watches deer year to year. A 3x4 is not always going to be a 3x4. They can really blossom.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Niller!

Read Posts 121 & 124!

Then Re-Read Them Again Niller!

Read Them Until It Sinks in to Your Thick F'N Scull!

JUDAS!

 

[Vanilla]

It really shouldn't be that hard of a question to answer, bessy. I'll keep asking it every time you get on these soap boxes.

Which bucks are you actually okay with other hunters killing?

 

[elkassassin]

So Niller?

If You Were Managing a Herd of Beef Cows/Cattle & Relied on it being Your Livelihood to Survive!

Would You Slaughter Every Up-coming Calf?

Would You Slaughter All The Bulls?

Would You Keep Just Yearling Bulls To Do All The Breeding?

After You Slaughtered All The Bulls Would You Slaughter all the Cows As Well?

Would You Sell All The Bulls in Hopes of The Neighbors Bull Would Knock Your Fence Down?

Would You Slaughter All The Cows Because There Ain't Enough Bulls?

Would You Try All This BULLSSHHITT Management On Your Cattle Herd That's Been Tried On Our Game Herds?

Would You Breed Them Down To a Total JUNK/WORTHLESS Herd?

Quit Beatin Around The Bush With Your Opportunist BS & Cowboy-Up Cupcake!

 

[Elknut33]

Bess
You are comparing apples to oranges in your analogy. A herd of beef can be completely managed for optimal growth, breeding, health, etc. a wild deer herd is not in the same park. If this was a high fence operation, it would be feasible to manage like you are saying but this is public owned, government run deal.
I agree with you that the management of our herds has been far less than optimal, but until all the racks come together with a united front with biologists the WB won't change a thing.

 

[elkassassin]

Well elknut!

I Used the Cattle as an Example for Niller!

Fill that Blank with whatever You Want!

The Game Herds Have Been Turned in to Nothing But GREED & MONEY!

It's Worked For Them For Quite a While Now!

But Now The Money Goods are in Low/Low Quality Supply!

When The Quality Goes Down,Word Travels Fast!

If Hossy Started Doing PISS POOR Work,and Started Charging For Things He Wasn't Supplying.How Long Do You Think He'd Be in Business? (((Hossy Is SMARTER Than That!)))

So elknut?

You're Sayin Average Joe Blow can Make it Work But Our Government can't!

Sounds about F'N Right!

We are Right at 50 Years of POOR Deer Management!

And Some Of You Think it's Gonna F'N Change?

It Will!

But it Won't Be for the Better!

Bess
You are comparing apples to oranges in your analogy. A herd of beef can be completely managed for optimal growth, breeding, health, etc. a wild deer herd is not in the same park. If this was a high fence operation, it would be feasible to manage like you are saying but this is public owned, government run deal.
I agree with you that the management of our herds has been far less than optimal, but until all the racks come together with a united front with biologists the WB won't change a thing.

 

[middlefork]

Well by god close the sucker down! It's not like you are eliminating a bunch of hunters.

Put all those guys chasing opportunity on the Henry's on to the Paunsagaungt

 

[bucks]

Well they had a few bucks running around that weren't perfect,So they introduced the Management hunt!!! to get rid of the great bucks that only had three points on the left side,But had 10 points on the right and was 32" wide!Good Job now we have none

 

[Vanilla]

Quit Beatin Around The Bush With Your Opportunist BS & Cowboy-Up Cupcake!

So the Henry Mountain deer hunt is an opportunity hunt now? Wowsers!

PS- you didn’t answer my question. Which bucks are you okay with other hunters killing if it can’t be the cream
If the crop and it can’t be the young ones?

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Niller?

When You Gonna Pay The F Attention?

A Healthy Deer Herd Would Consist of a Herd That Has 'SOME' Deer/Bucks of All Ages Surviving after The Years Hunts Have Ended!

But Instead:

Opportunists Like Yourself Just Want To KILL Shhitt!

Whatever's Left,You Wanna KILL It!

You KILLED Your Big Buck on the PAUNS!

Something Not Everybody Has Had a Turn At!

Then People Like You Wanna KILL Velvet Bucks on LE Units!

Then People Like You Wanna KILL 4X3's on places like PAUNS & The Henrie's!

Not All of Them Big 4X3's that Got KILLED were Inferior Bucks!

But Most of Them Got KILLED!

Now That The 4X3 Class of Bucks are Down People Like You Wanna KILL 3X2's,GEEZUS!

When That Class of Bucks are Shot Out People Like You Will Wanna KILL 1X2's!

Pay Close A-F'N-TENTION Here Niller!

We need 'Some' Age Class of All Age Class Deer To Survive after all Hunts have ended for the Year!

This Gives,Or Would Give All Types of Hunters Including Yourself a chance at Hunting Your Type of Hunting/Class of Deer Hunts!

If You Haven't F'N Noticed?

There's More Hunters wanting to KILL Deer Than We Have the Supply For,You Hear That Niller?

I Guess when the Herd is Down To Nothing but PISSCUTTERS & JUNK Quality You'll Still Be Happy as long as You Can Still KILL a DINK!

When You KILL everything Niller,what do You Have Left in the End?

Keep KILLING Niller!

That Social Media Monster TARDville PISSCUTTER Buck Pic Posted on the Internet Must Be Where it's All At!

 

[slamdunk]

Nothing says a big 3x4 can't kick out offspring that have a different antler configuration than they have.

Maybe the fawn will turn out a big giant 2x2 his whole life or it'll squash the Burris buck.

Does anyone on this forum have multiple sons that all look the same??‍

 

[slamdunk]

Anyone who argues the Henry’s hasn't been cherry picked out by today's techno hunting ways isn't getting out much and seeing the real picture.

A combination of two supremely well fine tuned killing machines whittling at both the top end and the bottom end simultaneously......man and predators.

 

[slamdunk]

Only 63% responded and reported, thats barely over 50%.

What would the models look like at 100% reporting like it should be?

Were the other 37 so disgusted they didn't want to report, or are they the anti "hotspotters" keeping a tight lip on their 200+" bucks ?‍

 

[ridgetops]

Only 63% responded and reported, thats barely over 50%.

What would the models look like at 100% reporting like it should be?

Were the other 37 so disgusted they didn't want to report, or are they the anti "hotspotters" keeping a tight lip on their 200+" bucks ?‍

Isn't the pentalty pretty steep on those that don't report. Hope it's worth it.

 

[elkassassin]

There's A Few TIGHT-LIPPERS around!

But there Are More DISGUSTED!

 

[ridgetops]

Hey Niller?

When You Gonna Pay The F Attention?

A Healthy Deer Herd Would Consist of a Herd That Has 'SOME' Deer/Bucks of All Ages Surviving after The Years Hunts Have Ended!

But Instead:

Opportunists Like Yourself Just Want To KILL Shhitt!

Whatever's Left,You Wanna KILL It!

You KILLED Your Big Buck on the PAUNS!

Something Not Everybody Has Had a Turn At!

Then People Like You Wanna KILL Velvet Bucks on LE Units!

Then People Like You Wanna KILL 4X3's on places like PAUNS & The Henrie's!

Not All of Them Big 4X3's that Got KILLED were Inferior Bucks!

But Most of Them Got KILLED!

Now That The 4X3 Class of Bucks are Down People Like You Wanna KILL 3X2's,GEEZUS!

When That Class of Bucks are Shot Out People Like You Will Wanna KILL 1X2's!

Pay Close A-F'N-TENTION Here Niller!

We need 'Some' Age Class of All Age Class Deer To Survive after all Hunts have ended for the Year!

This Gives,Or Would Give All Types of Hunters Including Yourself a chance at Hunting Your Type of Hunting/Class of Deer Hunts!

If You Haven't F'N Noticed?

There's More Hunters wanting to KILL Deer Than We Have the Supply For,You Hear That Niller?

I Guess when the Herd is Down To Nothing but PISSCUTTERS & JUNK Quality You'll Still Be Happy as long as You Can Still KILL a DINK!

When You KILL everything Niller,what do You Have Left in the End?

Keep KILLING Niller!

That Social Media Monster TARDville PISSCUTTER Buck Pic Posted on the Internet Must Be Where it's All At!

It's post like this that are really trying to take the hunt out of hunting. Actually, more like trying to take away hunting all together. If your a shed hunter, then you might like ole elkassassin's mind set.

 

[slamdunk]

Isn't the pentalty pretty steep on those that don't report. Hope it's worth it.

I believe they still just lock your account preventing you from applying and or pay a small penalty fee before you're eligible again.

 

[elkassassin]

So Ridge?

You Think Everything the UDWR Does is 100% Accurate?

Year Before This Last/2020 I Packed My UN-PUNCHED DH Tag In to Their Office Myself & Returned It!

I Go To Pick My 2021 DH Tag Up before The Hunts & They Said:

We Have No Record Of You Turning Your 2020 Tag Back!

I said:

Well Get It Documented RIGHT NOW That I Did Turn it in Because I Damn Sure Did Turn it in!

I Really Don't Know That It Matters!

Some Of These Guys Not Turning Their Info in Have Got The Attitude of:

Fine Me!

They know more than Likely They'll Never Get another Henry's Tag anyway!

Isn't the pentalty pretty steep on those that don't report. Hope it's worth it.

 

[elkassassin]

I Answered Nillers Question but No Reply?

 

[ridgetops]

So Ridge?

You Think Everything the UDWR Does is 100% Accurate?

Year Before This Last/2020 I Packed My UN-PUNCHED DH Tag In to Their Office Myself & Returned It!

I Go To Pick My 2021 DH Tag Up before The Hunts & They Said:

We Have No Record Of You Turning Your 2020 Tag Back!

I said:

Well Get It Documented RIGHT NOW That I Did Turn it in Because I Damn Sure Did Turn it in!

I Really Don't Know That It Matters!

Some Of These Guys Not Turning Their Info in Have Got The Attitude of:

Fine Me!

They know more than Likely They'll Never Get another Henry's Tag anyway!

So did they take your word for it and give you credit for turning it in?

 

[elkassassin]

Well Ridge!

I Didn't Leave Them a Choice!

I Done My Part!

Now They Can Do Theirs!

Like I Said!

I Don't Know That It Matters!

So did they take your word for it and give you credit for turning it in?

 

[Ultimag]

Habitat loss

 

[walleye1121]

The Survey was voluntary and not the the tooth data.
Info was being compiled by the officer that is covering the unit.
I know of a couple really small bucks that were killed that are certainly not in those numbers. I think I pretty much know about 70% of what was killed which is a pretty fair sample size.

 

[slamdunk]

The Survey was voluntary and not the the tooth data.
Info was being compiled by the officer that is covering the unit.
I know of a couple really small bucks that were killed that are certainly not in those numbers. I think I pretty much know about 70% of what was killed which is a pretty fair sample size.

I spoke with the officer down there when she checked our tag, cute little Native American gal out of Bullfrog.
Her story is exactly in line with these models.

She watched as 6 of the 10 muzzleloader hunters all went after the same 180" buck on the face of Penell....."quite comical, yet sad at the same time".

 

[elkassassin]

I spoke with the officer down there when she checked our tag, cute little Native American gal out of Bullfrog.
Her story is exactly in line with these model

She watched as 6 of the 10 muzzleloader hunters all went after the same 180" buck on the face of Penell....."quite comical, yet sad at the same time".

Well!

That Buck Died!

 

[Vanilla]

I Answered Nillers Question but No Reply?

You actually didn’t. You said what you wanted to live. You never said which bucks you’re okay with a hunter killing.

Pretend I draw another Pauns expo tag this year. I call you up and say “Ole Bessy, my good buddy, will you come on this hunt with me? I’m putting you in charge of my bullets. When you approve of the buck, you’ll hand me a bullet.”

Pretend you accepted the invitation. What buck are you handing me a bullet for? What do I get to kill?

 

[elkassassin]

GEEZUS Niller!

Re-Read it if You Have To!

I Said We Need 'Some Bucks' of All Ages To Survive after All The Hunts are Done!

And That Is So We Can Somewhat Satisfy Different Types Of Hunters in following years!

Meat Hunters!

Hunters That Don't Care About Antler Size!

Hunters that are OK With Medium Sized Bucks!

And Yes,Hunters That Hunt For Quality Bucks!

You Hear That Niller?

Would I Go With You On Your 2nd PAUNS Hunt?

DAMN Straight!

Or I'll Say it the Popper Way: HELL-RIGHT!

Will I Manage Your Bullets?

HELL NO!

What Do You Get To Kill?

Only You Yourself Can Make That Decision!

I Would Never Make it for Anybody!

But Do Tell Me This Niller?

You've Already Got That 38"-40" 1st PAUNS Buck on your Wall!

If You Go In to the 2nd Hunt with the Attitude of:I Want a Bigger Buck than My 1st PAUNS Buck or I'm NOT Harvesting one,Will You Live with that Decision?

Or?

After a few Days of Hunting & Not seeing anything close to your 1st PAUNS Buck Lower Your Standards & Not Live up to what You Preached?

Or?

With Just 2-3 Days Left of Season will You Lower Your Standards Even More & Harvest a DINK/PISSCUTTER Just To Say I GOT ONE and so You Can Show The Whole World On Social Media Your Trophy & The MASTER HUNTER That You Are?

Or?

Let's Say You Did Hold Out for Mr BIG,but the Last Day Rolls around & You Decide F'It,I'm Killing Something,I Need the Meat!

I've Seen the Above Scenario's Play Out 100's if not 1000's of Times in My Life!

I'm Not Holding Your Hand Niller!

I'm Damn Sure Not Holding Your Bullets!

If I Did Hold Your Bullets You Wouldn't Be Shooting Any DINKS on the PAUNS No Matter What Day it Was!

Only You Get To Make that Decision Niller,ONLY YOU!

I Do Wanna Go With You When You Draw Though!

There Will Be No Pretending Whether I Show Up Or Not!

Best Of Luck On all the Draws To You Niller & Everybody-else here!

You actually didn’t. You said what you wanted to live. You never said which bucks you’re okay with a hunter killing.

Pretend I draw another Pauns expo tag this year. I call you up and say “Ole Bessy, my good buddy, will you come on this hunt with me? I’m putting you in charge of my bullets. When you approve of the buck, you’ll hand me a bullet.”

Pretend you accepted the invitation. What buck are you handing me a bullet for? What do I get to kill?

 

[hossblur]

I agree with cutting way back on the amount of outfitters.
They also need to be included in the trail camera, baiting and other restrictions issues.
In fact I think outfitters should have to draw for a very limited number of guiding permits for each unit.
I don’t mean guide tags I mean a guiding permit.
Example:
Set the number of guiding permits on the Henry’s at two permits.
Pauns, four permits.
OC, one permit.
The guides would pay an application fee and also an additional permit fee if drawn.
Each outfitter will be limited on the number of guiding permits allowed per unit per year.

I've been deep thinking for a while on how to get the corporate hunters under control.

I really like this idea

 

[hossblur]

So Niller?

If You Were Managing a Herd of Beef Cows/Cattle & Relied on it being Your Livelihood to Survive!

Would You Slaughter Every Up-coming Calf?

Would You Slaughter All The Bulls?

Would You Keep Just Yearling Bulls To Do All The Breeding?

After You Slaughtered All The Bulls Would You Slaughter all the Cows As Well?

Would You Sell All The Bulls in Hopes of The Neighbors Bull Would Knock Your Fence Down?

Would You Slaughter All The Cows Because There Ain't Enough Bulls?

Would You Try All This BULLSSHHITT Management On Your Cattle Herd That's Been Tried On Our Game Herds?

Would You Breed Them Down To a Total JUNK/WORTHLESS Herd?

Quit Beatin Around The Bush With Your Opportunist BS & Cowboy-Up Cupcake!

Well. Since you asked .

I'd keep one or two bulls to do the breeding. Kill off the rest, since they don't have uteruses. I'd keep as many cows from each springs births, and I'd keep them pregnant.

Only a jackwagon would keep a herd of old bulls around.

 

[hossblur]

I've read Bess since he was Bess.

In all these years, he's never addressed the reality of life.

He will yap on and on about "hell yeah". And to be honest, most of it isn't wrong.

But he still, to this day can't put a plan together. Mostly because he's a blue collar guy, and in the end he knows what I know.

You can make all the sacrifices in the world. Shut down units. Take away guns. Drastic cuts, etc, etc, etc.


And yeah, some of that will work.

But BESS will never see it. I won't either.

We could absolutely get a lot more "quality" bucks, but there is a really high price.

That price is BESS, taking up golf. Hossblur collecting stamps. And Founder getting into pickleball.


Robyn Waldrip will really appreciate the sacrifice, she will reap the reward yearly. Other deep pockets, will finally have the system they want, unlimited access via wallet.

But BESS, will be gone, as will I.

So for all the "opportunist" rants. Notice Bess ain't just bought that San Juan bull tag. He too is playing the opportunist game.

We cut 150,000 hunters, and the result 30 years later, is the same size deer herd.

But 500+ money tags. An explosion of CWMU, and corporate hunters running the mountain, filled the void.

And to quote uncle Si, "that's the fact, JACK

 

[elkassassin]

JUDAS Hossy!

You Made Me SPEW My 2nd DEW Of the Morning!

 

[ridgetops]

GEEZUS Niller!

Re-Read it if You Have To!

I Said We Need 'Some Bucks' of All Ages To Survive after All The Hunts are Done!

And That Is So We Can Somewhat Satisfy Different Types Of Hunters in following years!

Meat Hunters!

Hunters That Don't Care About Antler Size!

Hunters that are OK With Medium Sized Bucks!

And Yes,Hunters That Hunt For Quality Bucks!

You Hear That Niller?

Would I Go With You On Your 2nd PAUNS Hunt?

DAMN Straight!

Or I'll Say it the Popper Way: HELL-RIGHT!

Will I Manage Your Bullets?

HELL NO!

What Do You Get To Kill?

Only You Yourself Can Make That Decision!

I Would Never Make it for Anybody!

But Do Tell Me This Niller?

You've Already Got That 38"-40" 1st PAUNS Buck on your Wall!

If You Go In to the 2nd Hunt with the Attitude of:I Want a Bigger Buck than My 1st PAUNS Buck or I'm NOT Harvesting one,Will You Live with that Decision?

Or?

After a few Days of Hunting & Not seeing anything close to your 1st PAUNS Buck Lower Your Standards & Not Live up to what You Preached?

Or?

With Just 2-3 Days Left of Season will You Lower Your Standards Even More & Harvest a DINK/PISSCUTTER Just To Say I GOT ONE and so You Can Show The Whole World On Social Media Your Trophy & The MASTER HUNTER That You Are?

Or?

Let's Say You Did Hold Out for Mr BIG,but the Last Day Rolls around & You Decide F'It,I'm Killing Something,I Need the Meat!

I've Seen the Above Scenario's Play Out 100's if not 1000's of Times in My Life!

I'm Not Holding Your Hand Niller!

I'm Damn Sure Not Holding Your Bullets!

If I Did Hold Your Bullets You Wouldn't Be Shooting Any DINKS on the PAUNS No Matter What Day it Was!

Only You Get To Make that Decision Niller,ONLY YOU!

I Do Wanna Go With You When You Draw Though!

There Will Be No Pretending Whether I Show Up Or Not!

Best Of Luck On all the Draws To You Niller & Everybody-else here!

We do have "some" bucks carry over every year. Actually, I think we have quite a few IMHO. What percentage do you think the wintering herd should be consisting of bucks?

 

[elkassassin]

Well Ridge!

Think about what You Just Said!

What percentage do you think the wintering herd should be consisting of bucks?

That's Like Asking Buck To Doe Ratio's!

The Suffering Utah Deer Herd Will Never Be Fixed By Somebody Thinking Percentages/Buck To Doe Ratio's!

When I Say Suffering Utah Deer Herd I'm Talking about ALL The Deer!

Not Just Bucks!

I Get a Kick out of People SUCKING This BS Buck To Doe Ratio Management Down!

Buck To Doe Ratio Means SQUAT if We've Only got a 100 Deer Left Where There Should Be 5,000 Head!

GEEZUS!

You Wanna Get My Blood Boilin,Just Mention Existing Management!

I Hear This BS All The Time:

We Seen a lot of Deer!

27 Head Of Does & Fawns & 2 Bucks!

At Least Our Buck To Doe Ratio is Good!

Until You Get Total Deer Numbers Up where They Should Be You Are PISSIN in the Wind!

I Was On 8 Different LE Units this Last Fall During The Rut Ridge!

With The Exception of one LE Unit That'd I'd Never Been To before I Counted Less Deer Than I Ever Have & It Gets Lower Every Year!

For The Most Part I Seen TOTAL JUNK Genetics Doing Most of the Breeding!

MOTL Bucks Breeding Their Mothers!

We Need A Healthy Deer Herd Ridge!

Piss on Buck to Doe Ratio's & Percentages at This Time!

They've Run This Utah Deer Herd in to the Ground since 1972 With Their GREED & BIG MONEY TACTICS!

We do have "some" bucks carry over every year. Actually, I think we have quite a few IMHO. What percentage do you think the wintering herd should be consisting of bucks?

 

[Vanilla]

Bessy…I’d shoot a dink 2 point on opening morning just to razz ya!

I’d go into the hunt with my same standard: kill the first buck I find that tickles my fancy. I hope I make it beyond 7:49 am on opening morning next time if I’m ever lucky enough to get a tag like that again. I’d like to hunt a little more. But if some stupid buck that gets me excited walks out again on opening morning, then boom goes the rifle again! Or I could hold out for 270+. Whatcha think?

Funny thing is that hunt I wanted a tall rack with some trash. Didn’t really care about width or score, but I had a vision of what I was hoping for, something really tall and a little trash or a kicker. I got none of that in my buck, and 9+ years later I’m still okay with that.

 

[elkassassin]

It Ain't What I Think Niller!

You're The Guy With The Tag!

You're The Only One That Can Pull The Trigger!

And If He's Even Close To 40" Wide!

I Might Egg You On!

 

[elkassassin]

Oh!

And Maybe This Time You Should Think You Want a 40"ER!

That Way You Might Get Tall & Trashy!

 

[elkassassin]

So Niller?

I Answered Some Questions!

Do You Kinda See What I'm Trying To Say?

 

[ridgetops]

Oh!

And Maybe This Time You Should Think You Want a 40"ER!

That Way You Might Get Tall & Trashy!

You really need to get past this 40" wide standard because it's a fairytale. A person has a better chance of killing a 250"+ buck or a 420" bull over a 40" wide buck. They are that rare under even the best conditions.

 

[elkassassin]

Well Ridge!

The Only Reason I Brought it Up & I Can't Remember The Exact Width?

So I Did Mention 38"-40"!

Only Because Niller Has One on His Wall!

And It's No Fairy Tale!

A Few Years ago a Hunter Took a 40"ER off the Henries!

There Was Another Buck on the Henries that Got Arrowed on the Archery Hunt that was Shot on one of the Later Hunts that Was Close to 40"!

When I Mentioned 40" I Relating to Nillers PAUNS Buck!

YES Ridge!

They Are Extremely Rare!

But There Use To Be a Couple!

You really need to get past this 40" wide standard because it's a fairytale. A person has a better chance of killing a 250"+ buck or a 420" bull over a 40" wide buck. They are that rare under even the best conditions.

 

[elkassassin]

This Isn't My Pic Ridge!

But We Seen The Same Buck The Following Year & Yes He Was Right at 40" Wide!

 

[Delta]

The buck looks a lot like a buck that was taken when I was a kid. He is missing a couple points and his backs are weak.

 

[Vanilla]

So Niller?

I Answered Some Questions!

Do You Kinda See What I'm Trying To Say?

Yes, the desire to see bucks of all age classes making it year to year makes sense, and I think we all can agree that would be a good thing.

I wonder what plan could ensure that? Have a check station in Hanksville and once three 200” bucks are killed you shut down the hunt? It could be like the swan hunt with trumpeters.

 

[elkassassin]

Well Niller!

I Don't Have All The Answers in This GREEDY World We Live In!

But I Can Guarantee You This!

The Top End Keeps Being Taken Year After Year Even Though That Top End Keeps Getting Smaller & Smaller!

And Here The Hell We Are!

Yes, the desire to see bucks of all age classes making it year to year makes sense, and I think we all can agree that would be a good thing.

I wonder what plan could ensure that? Have a check station in Hanksville and once three 200” bucks are killed you shut down the hunt? It could be like the swan hunt with trumpeters.

 

[ktg]

Yes, the desire to see bucks of all age classes making it year to year makes sense, and I think we all can agree that would be a good thing.

I wonder what plan could ensure that? Have a check station in Hanksville and once three 200” bucks are killed you shut down the hunt? It could be like the swan hunt with trumpeters.

Have a 2nd drawing for those who pull a tag. Each will draw a 'range' of score they are allowed to shoot and a 3 day hunt window. Bess can be the escort and validate before any shots are fired. Poor suckers who draw the 130" and under... jk

 

[ridgetops]

Well Ridge!

The Only Reason I Brought it Up & I Can't Remember The Exact Width?

So I Did Mention 38"-40"!

Only Because Niller Has One on His Wall!

And It's No Fairy Tale!

A Few Years ago a Hunter Took a 40"ER off the Henries!

There Was Another Buck on the Henries that Got Arrowed on the Archery Hunt that was Shot on one of the Later Hunts that Was Close to 40"!

When I Mentioned 40" I Relating to Nillers PAUNS Buck!

YES Ridge!

They Are Extremely Rare!

But There Use To Be a Couple!

You've brought up the 40" on several other post. That's the reason I brought it up. BTW, I thought vanillas buck was closer to 35" than 40.

 

[elkassassin]

Going By Bad Memory Ridge!

I Make Him just a Little Bigger Headed When I Say 38"-40"!

You Sayin 35" Isn't Big?

You've brought up the 40" on several other post. That's the reason I brought it up. BTW, I thought vanillas buck was closer to 35" than 40.

 

[Vanilla]

You've brought up the 40" on several other post. That's the reason I brought it up. BTW, I thought vanillas buck was closer to 35" than 40.

I’m a fisherman. Every year that passes we can add an inch!

 

[Delta]

In 2009 we located only 5 bucks that were legitimately over 200”. The largest buck a huge non typical, was blown out of the country during the first cow buffalo hunt. He never entered the unit that year again, and may have never returned.

Opening day of the rifle was a joke. Every tag was accompanied by so many people. They need to install traffic lights. We shot a buck where no one was looking that scored 210 typical, on the opening morning. Mossback guys scored it and did not know it was on the Mountain. Once in awhile one slips through the drag net.

I went back 5 years later and looked around, it was diminished then. This is very similar to what happened with the Paunsaugunt, after it was reopened in a similar time frame.

In 09 a huge 3x4 that was 38ish inches wide was wandering around. He was always on Ellen. These have all been killed off, thanks to the management hunt. With the huge amount of pressure on this mountain, I would imagine many of the large bucks migrate out of the area.

Minus the one guy with 27, I am in the next group. People wonder why so many people buy points. I would rather hunt up north than deal with the Zoo of the once in a lifetime premium units.

There is not a fix. Very limited resource and a huge population increase is not sustainable. We allow animals to be shot off winter range in the name of conservation. We give away 200ish tags to anyone that applies. The writing is on the wall.

 

[ridgetops]

Going By Bad Memory Ridge!

I Make Him just a Little Bigger Headed When I Say 38"-40"!

You Sayin 35" Isn't Big?

There's a huge difference between 35" and 40". Kind of like 200" and 250" in score.

 

[Delta]

Yeah, but 95% of 40” are thanks to cheaters. That makes them far more rare. Closer to Unicorn, Mermaid, or Sasquatch status!!

 

[elkassassin]

I Told You Ridge I Don't Remember Exactly How Wide Nillers PAUNS Buck is!

But He's Wide Enough!

And You Can Put The 35" Bucks in the Same Class as 40" Bucks!

There's Very Few Of Either In TARDvilles PISS POOR Deer Herd of Today!

There's a huge difference between 35" and 40". Kind of like 200" and 250" in score.

 

[elkassassin]

Well Delta?

Where Up North You Wanting to Hunt?

ALCATRAZ?

In 2009 we located only 5 bucks that were legitimately over 200”. The largest buck a huge non typical, was blown out of the country during the first cow buffalo hunt. He never entered the unit that year again, and may have never returned.

Opening day of the rifle was a joke. Every tag was accompanied by so many people. They need to install traffic lights. We shot a buck where no one was looking that scored 210 typical, on the opening morning. Mossback guys scored it and did not know it was on the Mountain. Once in awhile one slips through the drag net.

I went back 5 years later and looked around, it was diminished then. This is very similar to what happened with the Paunsaugunt, after it was reopened in a similar time frame.

In 09 a huge 3x4 that was 38ish inches wide was wandering around. He was always on Ellen. These have all been killed off, thanks to the management hunt. With the huge amount of pressure on this mountain, I would imagine many of the large bucks migrate out of the area.

Minus the one guy with 27, I am in the next group. People wonder why so many people buy points. I would rather hunt up north than deal with the Zoo of the once in a lifetime premium units.

There is not a fix. Very limited resource and a huge population increase is not sustainable. We allow animals to be shot off winter range in the name of conservation. We give away 200ish tags to anyone that applies. The writing is on the wall.

 

[Delta]

Canada and Alaska. Not in your preferred Tardville!!!

 

[elkassassin]

I'M Talkin With Your 26 TARDville Deer Points?

Canada and Alaska. Not in your preferred Tardville!!!

 

[Delta]

Correct. I waited so my sons could be present. Now one of them may use the tag, when it is acceptable to me. I never drew the tag and turned it in.

 

[elkassassin]

Best Of Luck To You & Your Sons!

26 Years is a Big Chunk of a Guys Life!

Correct. I waited so my sons could be present. Now one of them may use the tag, when it is acceptable to me. I never drew the tag and turned it in.

 

[Delta]

It is, but I don’t care. If I did not do that mission thing I would have 28. Thank you to my parents who forgot about me!!!!

 

[elkassassin]

If You Had MAX Points You Mighta Spent Them When Things Were Better?

It is, but I don’t care. If I did not do that mission thing I would have 28. Thank you to my parents who forgot about me!!!!

 

[Delta]

I have seen 3 legitimate 40” bucks on the hoof. 2 have been on the Henry’s in the 80’s, and 1 on the Puans right before it opened. In all 3 cases they were migrating.

 

[Delta]

I would not have used them. My Boys were to young. Now I hope for a closure.

 

[OpeningDay]

Well!

That Buck Died!

I spoke with the officer down there when she checked our tag, cute little Native American gal out of Bullfrog.
Her story is exactly in line with these models.

She watched as 6 of the 10 muzzleloader hunters all went after the same 180" buck on the face of Penell....."quite comical, yet sad at the same time".

I was there for this fiasco. First off, that buck was much bigger than 180", but yes, he was shot at by 3 different hunters that morning. From what I know, that buck was not killed during the Muzzy hunt. I have not seen any pics of that buck since the hunts. All the hunters but one had tagged out by the weekend. Most with bucks people would consider on the smaller end for the Henry Mountains.

 

[elkassassin]

This Is For Niller & Whoever Else needs To Hear it!

I Could Re-Write The Song!

But I Think If You Listen To it Enough Niller You'll Get The Idea!

 

[MuleyKiller]

Wild Horses!!!! and Buffalo also very bad for the Bookcliffs deer Herd.

 

[elkassassin]

Shoot All The F'N Feral Horses You Want!

Wild Horses!!!! and Buffalo also very bad for the Bookcliffs deer Herd.

 

[Vanilla]

This Is For Niller & Whoever Else needs To Hear it!

I Could Re-Write The Song!

But I Think If You Listen To it Enough Niller You'll Get The Idea!

Bessy, it’s sad that just some average Joe who enjoys hunting has become public enemy number 1 for you. Your boys at the Animal Liberation Front would be proud.

 

[elkassassin]

You Still Don't Get it Do You Niller?

Bessy, it’s sad that just some average Joe who enjoys hunting has become public enemy number 1 for you. Your boys at the Animal Liberation Front would be proud.

 

[elkassassin]

Answer The F'N Question Niller:

Do You Have Kids?

Do You Have Grand-Kids?

Do You Give a Rat's-Ass Rather They Get To Hunt Anything?

Or is it ALL About YOU?

 

[Vanilla]

It’s comical you throw that complete bull$#!? at me, my friend. I promise your way of thinking on this is exponentially more dangerous to my children and eventual grandchildren’s hunting than mine.

I want them to have tags. You don’t. Case settled.

 

[elkassassin]

You're Wrong again Niller!

You Might as Well Say:

You Want Tags Every Year!

I Wanna See Your Kids & Grand-Kids Have Something left To Hunt When They Go Hunting!

Rather Than Just Pack Their Guns Around Hiking Their Asses Off with Nothig To Hunt!

Ahhhhhhhhhhh..............!

But In Your Eyes it's JUST The Opportunity that Matters!

Most Kids/Younger Hunters Are Gonna Wanna See Something when They Do Go or You're Not Gonna Keep Them Going!

It’s comical you throw that complete bull$#!? at me, my friend. I promise your way of thinking on this is exponentially more dangerous to my children and eventual grandchildren’s hunting than mine.

I want them to have tags. You don’t. Case settled.

 

[deadibob]

Beating a Dead Horse For How Long Now?

This Long:

View attachment 62843

but was it dead when you started beating it or did you beat it until it was dead? You ain't dead yet, how long have you been beating it?

 

[Vanilla]

You're Wrong again Niller!

You Might as Well Say:

You Want Tags Every Year!

I Wanna See Your Kids & Grand-Kids Have Something left To Hunt When They Go Hunting!

Rather Than Just Pack Their Guns Around Hiking Their Asses Off with Nothig To Hunt!

Ahhhhhhhhhhh..............!

But In Your Eyes it's JUST The Opportunity that Matters!

Most Kids/Younger Hunters Are Gonna Wanna See Something when They Do Go or You're Not Gonna Keep Them Going!

You can wrap a turd in a bun and call it a hotdog all you want. You can even squirt some ketchup and mustard on it then slather it with relish. I’m still going to call it a turd.