Founder's bill is up on the website.

The First Amendment applies even to publications that generate revenue, like the vast majority of publications. Would you think because you have to buy the Washington Post newspaper that the government can pass laws dictating what they can print in the paper? Heck, Trump would have legislation in the works now to force the Washington Post to publish only his non-fake news.
The First Amendment protects all Speech, with only a handful of exceptions that are far more important than the location of where I saw a deer.
Not sure why so many people think Freedom of Speech only applies when one speaks and no compensation or financial gain is involved...????


>"The bill is trying to dictate
>what I can or can't
>write about and publish from
>my desk in Utah."
>
>That's not at all what the
>proposed legislation is trying to
>do. This is where
>I think you are off
>base regarding the 1st amendment
>issue. As I see it,
>you can write about and
>publish pretty much whatever you
>want; the issue is the
>fact that you are providing
>this intelligence for a fee.
>If you were providing this
>information for free I don't
>think you could be regulated.
>
>
>Paul


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
I'll go out on a limb, which I'm inclined to do, ? and predict: in the future, a motel owner, living in Wy or any of the western States will not be allowed to tell someone who is or who in the future may rent a room, while on a deer/elk/sheep etc. hunt, because the motel owner is or may benefit from sharing that knowledge.

I had it happen on more than one occasion at Outdoor Trade Shows and in Alaskan communities already. They are scared to death to say a word, unless they are licensed to hunt the species your are asking about.

''TIS A MESS"

DC
 
Thank goodness. It takes a level of self righteousness that I don't possess to be in that group. I'll stick with my crew.
Now, you get out there and share information the right way, for hunts, vacations and I'm sure there are other things on your list you won't speak of.

LOL Good comedy. That's funny that someone pointed out your way of doing it. You?re a sellout too! I'm not letting you in our sellout club though, you're too self righteous. ha ha


>Justify it all you want Brian.
> There is a huge
>difference. You know it,
>I know it, and most
>everybody else knows it. You
>are a pimp and a
>sell out and no you
>can never come back to
>"our" group. You are a
>sell out and thus belong
>to that group now.


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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on Facebook!
 
Lumpy with all due respect you are wrong in calling this a supply and demand issue with regards to the G and H deer heards.

First off there is a good to great supply and second the demand is not al that great either. H non res can draw at least every other year and G every 6 or so as it stands right now. As far as the quality of those hunts along with the quality of deer in those units along with how easy it is to draw those units that does not at all sugest your supply and demand example holds water.

a much better annalagy IMO would be that of prostittution. There are plenty of women around. Great women to be exact, but you still have lazy men and slobs that do not want to work for a good women. In steps the pimp and well the rest is self explanatory.
 
Not to mention Brian isn't even a "good" pimp. All these years of scouting and hunting in those mountains and only turning up 1 if my count is right over 200". Hahaha. Bla Bla Bla about how you have to look at a bazillion deer in those areas to find just that one that will break the 200" mark. Haha I guess if you are a low class pimp that is the case.
 
Plk I am sure you are right about that. I tend to get a little fired up about things? But the facts I stated are very true maybe the comparisons are a bit over the top but that doesn't change that facts behind them
 
The non pimps just trade their ho?s for goods and services. It would be wrong to charge money. Pimping is ok if it's for hunts, not cash though. LOL

And yes, you are the great hunter, far better and more successful than I. I'm sure all the self righteous, arrogant, super hunters in your club are. I would never question that. I suck, you're great.


>Lumpy with all due respect you
>are wrong in calling this
>a supply and demand issue
>with regards to the G
>and H deer heards.
>
>First off there is a good
>to great supply and second
>the demand is not al
>that great either. H non
>res can draw at least
>every other year and G
>every 6 or so as
>it stands right now. As
>far as the quality of
>those hunts along with the
>quality of deer in those
>units along with how easy
>it is to draw those
>units that does not at
>all sugest your supply and
>demand example holds water.
>
>a much better annalagy IMO would
>be that of prostittution. There
>are plenty of women around.
>Great women to be exact,
>but you still have lazy
>men and slobs that do
>not want to work for
>a good women. In steps
>the pimp and well the
>rest is self explanatory.


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-17 AT 08:45PM (MST)[p]If you don't think supply and demand is at root of our western hunting traditions your headed for the same train wreck as the rest of the folks here abouts. But...... like them, when all the public land hunting resources are gone, you'll be blaming someone else.

Don't really mean to be rude Tknez, just seen too much water go under the bridge the last seven decades, to hold my water.

DC
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-17 AT 09:02PM (MST)[p]I'm out of this thread due to it becoming more than a little ridiculous with the name calling, etc. Too bad a serious thread has gone into the crapper!
 
Lumpy I understand what you are saying, I just am not sure it applies to this particular situation in those hunt areas as of right now.

Brian I trade no info for anything. By that I mean I go on hunts with others and help where and when I can. They do the same for me. There is a huge difference there and if you can't see that, well I guess we will agree to disagree. It is a little closer in line how you give all your knowledge to those that will share their points with you.
I have had dinners and vacationed with the people I have been lucky enough to share hunts with. And you? My family has actually made friends with their families. Not that any of this is your business but to say it is the same as what you are doing is a stretch to say the least.
 
Point sharing? Pimping? One pays for all the points the other knows where the big ones live.......

Father and three sons, alternatively point sharing, hunting every year while they build points at the same time. Pimping?

I'm sure creative minds are already way ahead of the Outfitters, Fish and Game, and State Legislature. And........ like Founder, what they are doing is legal....... but unpopular with those not directly benefiting.

Keep the value of the resource high as a new tractor and you'll continue to see just how creative people can be.

Sorry TG, I'm bored. Ole Sage's cuz can't get a break at the NFR, so I got to do something to entertain my old self. Like I said 50 posts ago, I got no dog in this fight and your right it is ridiculous but for some it is in fact a very real issue. Mostly sour grapes, I think. Like so much that goes on here, betwix and between the really good stuff. :D

DC
 
>The bill is trying to dictate
>what I can or can't
>write about and publish from
>my desk in Utah. The
>supporters feel that because I'm
>writing about something that the
>state of Wyoming owns, that
>the state has the right
>to dictate what I get
>to say about that property.
>I do no business in
>Wyoming, only share my experiences
>and knowledge gathered while in
>the state of Wyoming with
>people of my choice when
>I return home to Utah
>where I have a business
>license that allows me to
>publish my life experiences and
>all the detail about those
>experiences that I wish.
>
>That's how I see it. And
>even though I see it
>that way, and don't think
>I should be regulated to
>hike through Wyoming and look
>at stuff and tell whomever
>I want what I saw
>and where, I'd be happy
>to get a license if
>that were the case. But
>as I see this bill,
>it's geared primarily to stop
>me and anyone like me,
>and give the existing outfitters
>a new service to offer.
>
>
>
>>The bill does not stop you
>>from this activity. It
>>regulates you by requiring you
>>to go through the guide
>>license process...where the state has
>>some control or knowledge over
>>who/where/when this stuff happens.
>>
>>
>
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

In sure any tv host is glad to hear this. They can film in Wyoming then go home and put it together. No need to pay a filming fee, they are just sharing their experience. No need for a permit. Its free speech, 1st amend protected.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-17 AT 00:05AM (MST)[p]>Haha if you thought for one
>second I wasn't ready for
>a someone to bring such
>a thing up you would
>be mistaken....
>
>I have made some great friends
>in doing just as you
>have mentioned. If you
>want to compare what I
>have done with what Brian
>is doing that is up
>to you, but judging from
>the response to his doings
>and the lack of any
>responses on how "bad" trading
>hunts are on the very
>page on this sight for
>just that I would say
>you are in a huge
>minority.
>
>Oh and just so you know
>I have no problem looking
>in the mirror. I guess
>making friends and trading hunts
>is where I draw the
>line

Except last time I called you out, back when you first joined...you defended founder (and yourself) until you were blue in the lips.
I'm glad to see you finally see what Brian is doing isn't right, but YOU ARE 1 in the same!

If anyone cares to fact check please do so. I've only posted 5-6 times since that descusion because I lost a lot of respect for Brian, MM, and selfish slobs like TKneaz..

*addition*. I've made plenty of friends and aquantences here as well...and guess what? Not one of them did I ask for anything, trade anything, exploit anyone, or anything! I did it out of my passion for hunting and helping others, nothing more.

My only regret for not reading or posting much here anymore is the lost opportunities to help and meet more guys...just like the MMer I met today, which I am now storing hunting equipment for, in my home, until next season, just so he doesn't have to fly it back and forth or buy it every year. I'm not looking to gain anything, only helping.
 
>Trading for hunts is okay. Trading
>for grocery and gas money,
>not. Gotcha?!! Can I come
>back to being ?one of
>you guys? if I just
>trade my information for high
>quality hunting adventures? What about
>a vacation to the beach?
>Or a cruise? Do those
>count? LOL Funny, funny........
>

Brian, you and I had our private descusions on your service and you know I do not like what you do in Wyoming,,,but you just nailed TK?s offerings..to a T! He?s offered the same services as you, for the exact same level of exploitation and personal gain(even if it wasn?t cash)...thank you for proving the point I have been trying to make all along.
 
>Justify it all you want Brian.
> There is a huge
>difference. You know it,
>I know it, and most
>everybody else knows it. You
>are a pimp and a
>sell out and no you
>can never come back to
>"our" group. You are a
>sell out and thus belong
>to that group now.


Hey Brian,
At least you'll have company there with TK.., haha.
 
>Thank goodness. It takes a level
>of self righteousness that I
>don't possess to be in
>that group. I'll stick with
>my crew.
>Now, you get out there and
>share information the right way,
>for hunts, vacations and I'm
>sure there are other things
>on your list you won't
>speak of.
>
>LOL Good comedy. That's funny that
>someone pointed out your way
>of doing it. You?re a
>sellout too! I'm not letting
>you in our sellout club
>though, you're too self righteous.
>ha ha
>
>
>>Justify it all you want Brian.
>> There is a huge
>>difference. You know it,
>>I know it, and most
>>everybody else knows it. You
>>are a pimp and a
>>sell out and no you
>>can never come back to
>>"our" group. You are a
>>sell out and thus belong
>>to that group now.
>
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Too funny!
 
In my estimation, my services can improve your odds of harvesting a "special" buck by 4000%.

Trophy and Premium Buck Packages: $999.00 - $1499.00

Each consulting package will include:
* Photos of the buck you want to hunt
* Exact location of where the buck has been seen
* Photos of other good bucks in the area
* Trailhead location on Google Earth Image
* Suggested camp location on Google Earth Image
* Nearest known water source
* Suggested areas to hunt for best chance of success
* Detailed report on how I'd hunt the buck/area, etc.
* Phone consultation leading up to the hunt
* No two clients (or groups) will be sent to hunt the same buck


Basic Package: $599.00

This basic consulting package will give you the information on a great hunting spot where I have found an above-average number of bucks, and some pretty darn good ones, with the potential to hold something very special. These are spots that impress me greatly, despite the fact that I may not have found a whopper while scouting. Good package to get you started on your hunt.
Consulting package will include:
* Photos of good bucks in the area
* Trailhead location on Google Earth Image
* Suggested camp location on Google Earth Image
* Nearest known water source
* Suggested areas to hunt for best chance of success
* Detailed report on how I'd hunt the buck/area, etc.
* Phone consultation leading up to the hunt
* No two clients (or groups) will be sent to hunt the same area




Not sure about any of you, but I don't call my friends, or even random dudes on MM "my clients" when I give them help.

I also don't give the a 4000% increase in being successful, but then again you get what you pay for.

This is Brian's price sheet. From this site. Can we now stop pretending he's just like you or I. He's running a business, collecting payment. He's NOT Jack OConnor writing about his travels. He's not trading for a couple dehydrated meals and a tank of gas. And he knows it. Which is why he is trying to pretend his free speach rights are at stake. His ability to PROFIT on this resource is what he's worried about. And if there are guys so concerned with trophy status they want to pay him(unbelievably sad), then fine, businesses should make a profit, but not at the expense of legit businesses.

Other guides can do exactly what he does. Probably will or do currently. But they are regulated. They pay into the system. He can do the same, it just sucks having to, and that is his complaint.




"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Part of what Founder is doing appears to me to be illegal without a permit in that if he's making money on pictures he's taking of these big bucks that are on NFS public land or BLM and putting them on his site, then as best I can tell he has to pay for a permit to do that. I know Randy Newberg pays a lot to video on NFS and BLM lands that he hunts on his Fresh Tracks show and that's whether the film ever makes it on the screen for people to see! As far as I know making money from pictures taken on public land also requires a permit even though a lot of people probably don't have one.
 
Here?s a link to my consulting page;
http://www.monstermuleys.com/hunt-consulting-scouting/

The intelligence I have is of high value, no doubt about that. The report I provide really is meant for those who simply can't scout themselves, for whatever reason.......not enough vacation, too far, etc. I'd always suggest that if someone can scout themselves, do it cause it's cool country to be in.
But if you can't, but still want to have an idea where to hunt and don't desire to hire a guide, then the reports I offer are well, well worth it.

It's completely legal for someone to buy my intelligence reports, and it's plenty ethical, just as ethical as milking your buddy or someone you don't know for their hard earned intelligence for free. But each person will have to make their own call on that.
I'm more of a Do-It-Yourselfer than 99% of people, but if I were going to travel 1000 miles for a hunt that I've been applying for for 7 years, I wouldn't want to just show up blind. I'd pay for a scouting package, as I have no interest in a guided hunt and probably wouldn't have time to scout the new place out.

Some would have you believe that you're only a real hunter if you can get other people?s information for free, or for just a $100 yearly subscription.

Some know however that the vast majority of sportsmen know what they know because someone else educated them. How many people hunt somewhere based on what Huntin? Fool said? How many people in Wyoming hunt region G right now based on what they've seen and read online?
I'd bet 90% of people who dislike me selling my intelligence, would gladly milk me for the location of a 190 incher and run right up to hunt it. They?d probably even call it ?self taught?. LOL

People put other people down for using an outfitter or a consultant because it makes them feel more superior. That would be the only reason I can think. Maybe it's one of the few things in life they can do themselves, so to make themselves even more proud, they knock those who want to hire help. Fact is, they all pay someone for something......tax preparation, car repairs, plumbing, electrical work, etc, etc.
I wonder if electricians have a website where they knock people who can't wire their own house?

Nobody should feel bad for acquiring intelligence if need to do so. Of course if you can do it all yourself, do it! I do my own taxes, rebuild engines, remodeled my kitchen, and more and really enjoy doing it myself, but I still had to hire an orthodontist or my kids? braces because I don't have the expertise now or the time to acquire it.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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You just convicted yourself with that last post Founder when you compared what you're doing to those other professions, as they all require a license or permit of some type by the state they are doing business in/with. If you think all the excuses you're using makes it okay to do it without paying the Piper, then you're almost by yourself in that thinking. It's also not chicken feed when you have prices like that for the packages, but I guess there are some lazy bass turds out there that will do or pay just about anything to kill a big buck and that's exactly what you're counting on! Now I'm done with this thread!
 
A bunch of cry babies here over a few pictures and locations, if we were told we could only use 30-30 lever actions with only open sights and recurves with cedar shafts there would be no bitching.
 
>You just convicted yourself with that
>last post Founder when you
>compared what you're doing to
>those other professions, as they
>all require a license or
>permit of some type by
>the state they are doing
>business in/with. If you
>think all the excuses you're
>using makes it okay to
>do it without paying the
>Piper, then you're almost by
>yourself in that thinking.
>It's also not chicken feed
>when you have prices like
>that for the packages, but
>I guess there are some
>lazy bass turds out there
>that will do or pay
>just about anything to kill
>a big buck and that's
>exactly what you're counting on!
> Now I'm done with
>this thread!


Hmm, that's twice you've been done, who wants to bet you'll be back...
 
Another part is, Founder might speed when driving to Wyoming. He?s just crooked!! LOL .... You?re funny and you didn't even know it.
Instead of ?guessing? on laws I might be breaking, a quick search will enlighten and educate you. Or just continue with silly, ignorant wild guesses as to what law I could be breaking.


>Part of what Founder is doing
>appears to me to be
>illegal without a permit in
>that if he's making money
>on pictures he's taking of
>these big bucks that are
>on NFS public land or
>BLM and putting them on
>his site, then as best
>I can tell he has
>to pay for a permit
>to do that. I
>know Randy Newberg pays a
>lot to video on NFS
>and BLM lands that he
>hunts on his Fresh Tracks
>show and that's whether the
>film ever makes it on
>the screen for people to
>see! As far as
>I know making money from
>pictures taken on public land
>also requires a permit even
>though a lot of people
>probably don't have one.


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Electricians. Licensed. On top of having to pass tests to make them one, and do continuing education.
They then set up a business. DOPL License. DBA licences. Workers comp cert., liability policy. City license.

And yup, you think a guy who goes through all that doesn't go after every under the table guy he hears of that are out competing with him? DOPL has a tip line. States run stings to find scabs.

In licensed. If I see you at a supply yard and offer advise, that's me being nice. The second I invoice you for services rendered, in a pro, using my profession to make money. All of which is subject to audit. All subject to taxes. Including a bunch of fees and taxes individuals aren't required to pay. Inventory taxes for instance.

I'm sure the outfitters don't like the competition. But the resent more that your doing so without having to jump through hoops like they are FORCED to. Or are they just idiots who like to scratch checks all over the state, for fun, and your just way smarter than them.

I'm sure guys WITH tags love having you wandering around while they are hunting doing Intel. Can't figure out why the Wyoming guys dislike Utards so much.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
+1 Hossblur. I live in that world everyday. Almost impossible to compete with the unlicensed guys with a pickup/wheelbarrow??
 
You don't need to be licensed to share information. If that's what you're implying, you are wrong.


>Electricians. Licensed. On top
>of having to pass tests
>to make them one, and
>do continuing education.
>They then set up a business.
> DOPL License. DBA
>licences. Workers comp cert.,
>liability policy. City license.
>
>
>And yup, you think a guy
>who goes through all that
>doesn't go after every under
>the table guy he hears
>of that are out competing
>with him? DOPL has
>a tip line. States
>run stings to find scabs.
>
>
>In licensed. If I see
>you at a supply yard
>and offer advise, that's me
>being nice. The second
>I invoice you for services
>rendered, in a pro, using
>my profession to make money.
> All of which is
>subject to audit. All
>subject to taxes. Including
>a bunch of fees and
>taxes individuals aren't required to
>pay. Inventory taxes for
>instance.
>
>I'm sure the outfitters don't like
>the competition. But the
>resent more that your doing
>so without having to jump
>through hoops like they are
>FORCED to. Or are
>they just idiots who like
>to scratch checks all over
>the state, for fun, and
>your just way smarter than
>them.
>
>I'm sure guys WITH tags love
>having you wandering around while
>they are hunting doing Intel.
> Can't figure out why
>the Wyoming guys dislike Utards
>so much.
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
I don't know weather founder is doing something illegal or not, but if you pay someone wages at your home they are not required to have any license or insurance for any type of work, In the case of unlicensed contractors they will not be working for my clients because they are going to want proof of lic. and insurance,so for me the blame for unlicensed activity always goes to the customer so if you are a costumer that wants a legitimate transaction it is also your responsibility to know.
 
>Hmm, that's twice you've been done,
>who wants to bet you'll
>be back...


Geez, you again with your BS that's about the only thing you post, LOL! Hey, I had to come back when someone lies and says they don't need anything at the present time to do what he's doing and he does if he's making a profit from pictures he's taken on public land! His site certainly says his packages are based on the size of the deer and there are pictures of bucks to pick from based on his prices and what a person wants to spend.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-17 AT 03:57PM (MST)[p]>I don't know weather founder is
>doing something illegal or not,
>but if you pay someone
>wages at your home they
>are not required to have
>any license or insurance for
>any type of work, In
>the case of unlicensed contractors
>they will not be working
>for my clients because they
>are going to want proof
>of lic. and insurance,so for
>me the blame for unlicensed
>activity always goes to the
>customer so if you are
>a costumer that wants a
>legitimate transaction it is also
>your responsibility to know.


I'm back again, LOL! I don't know where you live to come up with that, but anything major in the line of at least electricity and plumbing done at your home in most places DOES require a person to be licensed to do that work. If a home owner does as you say and gets caught not using a licensed professional, it's probable that the work will all be inspected, extra money charged for doing the work without drawing a permit, and the work possibly having to be redone if it doesn't meet code.
 
Founder your correct to SHARE info you shouldn't.

But your SELLING info. As a "professional".

As for the customer not needing licensing, again your right. The sub contractor has the responsibility to be legal. Founders CLIENTS(what he calls folks he "shares" with) don't bear responsibility.

Founder you keep trying to say your sharing this info. Where? Where on this site can I find your pics, trail GPS, water sources, estimated score?
Where? If your sharing it, it should be available.

Your SELLING IT.

Or is your contention your CLIENTS(professional word used to describe PAYING customers) are just SHARING $1500?

Your a Professional.

If not, why the hell did dudes pay you? Are you a charity?

Words have meanings. Your trying to play games, no wonder the Wyoming guys are mad.



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
In the state of california as a home owner / builder you can pull permits and employ anyone you want to perform the work, in the case of quality its still the customers responsibility, so generally faith may not be as good as investigating as much as you can.
 
Rates are based on client expectations. 175-185 (170-180 in region H) caliber buck....$999.00. 185+ (180+ in region H) buck....$1499.00. The additional cost is for an additional two days on the mountain on average. On average, it takes 3-5 days of scouting for me to find bucks in the 180" class and better.

I read your whole sheet. Which is the paragraph explaining the SHARING?
I had zero idea there were rates in SHARING.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-17 AT 04:30PM (MST)[p]>In the state of california as
>a home owner / builder
>you can pull permits and
>employ anyone you want to
>perform the work, in the
>case of quality its still
>the customers responsibility, so generally
>faith may not be as
>good as investigating as much
>as you can.

It the subcontractors responsibility to be compliant.

Guys who BOUGHT pkgs did so in good faith, but it would be interesting to see how Founder dictates he be paid. Cash? Check? Card?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-17 AT 04:33PM (MST)[p]>In the state of california as
>a home owner / builder
>you can pull permits and
>employ anyone you want to
>perform the work, in the
>case of quality its still
>the customers responsibility, so generally
>faith may not be as
>good as investigating as much
>as you can.

Only in CA and you would think they would be the strictest state on chit like that so as to protect the tradesmen and home owner from people that don't know what the heck they're doing. I thought you even needed a license to take a dump out there in lala land, LOL!
 
>You don't need to be licensed
>to share information. If that's
>what you're implying, you are
>wrong.

Tell that to your doctor, lawyer, contractor, realtor, accountant, plumber, financial advisor, etc...

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
So you just want me to say ?sell?? Okay, I sell a report. Within the report I share highly valuable information that will help a person who is unable to gather the information themselves. I have no special license, because none is needed. I have no permit, because none is needed. What I provide, share, sell, trade, barter, pass along, or whatever you want to call it, is simple, factual information. That's it. Just like information you would gather from ?Painting for Dummies? book. Just information/knowledge I've acquired while hunting and scouting numerous states, but mostly Wyoming. I scout Wyoming to find myself a big buck, in the process, I find bucks that I won't be hunting, and the location information and my suggested hunting tactics are what I ?sell? in my report, among other things.

I completely understand why outfitters and hunters who hunt that area don't like what I do, and that's primarily because it creates competition for those big bucks that I speak of in the reports I sell. Of course they'd like less competition and for me to stay out of Wyoming, and I'd like less competition too and would rather see them stay home and spend quality time with the wives and kids. We all want less competition.

There you go. I said ?sell? numerous times, but no matter how many times I say it, or you say it, I still don't need a permit or license to sell, share, trade, barter, pass along or give away the information between my ears. Maybe this year I will need one, but not right now and my belief is I won't need one and don't need one. We'll see in a couple of months what the state of Wyoming thinks via the votes of their elected officials.

I am a professional information seller, trader, barterer, give awayer and pass alonger. Have been for 18 years. And I do have good information that will increase a persons chance of success immensely.

All this scouting talk has me fired up and ready to find more big bucks this year.


>Founder your correct to SHARE info
>you shouldn't.
>
>But your SELLING info. As
>a "professional".
>
>As for the customer not needing
>licensing, again your right.
>The sub contractor has the
>responsibility to be legal.
>Founders CLIENTS(what he calls folks
>he "shares" with) don't bear
>responsibility.
>
>Founder you keep trying to say
>your sharing this info.
>Where? Where on this
>site can I find your
>pics, trail GPS, water sources,
>estimated score?
>Where? If your sharing it,
>it should be available.
>
>Your SELLING IT.
>
>Or is your contention your CLIENTS(professional
>word used to describe PAYING
>customers) are just SHARING $1500?
>
>
>Your a Professional.
>
>If not, why the hell did
>dudes pay you? Are
>you a charity?
>
>Words have meanings. Your trying
>to play games, no wonder
>the Wyoming guys are mad.
>
>
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>So you just want me to
>say ?sell?? Okay, I sell
>a report. Within the report
>I share highly valuable information
>that will help a person
>who is unable to gather
>the information themselves. I have
>no special license, because none
>is needed. I have no
>permit, because none is needed.
>What I provide, share, sell,
>trade, barter, pass along, or
>whatever you want to call
>it, is simple, factual information.
>That's it. Just like information
>you would gather from ?Painting
>for Dummies? book. Just information/knowledge
>I've acquired while hunting and
>scouting numerous states, but mostly
>Wyoming. I scout Wyoming to
>find myself a big buck,
>in the process, I find
>bucks that I won't be
>hunting, and the location information
>and my suggested hunting tactics
>are what I ?sell? in
>my report, among other things.
>
>
>I completely understand why outfitters and
>hunters who hunt that area
>don't like what I do,
>and that's primarily because it
>creates competition for those big
>bucks that I speak of
>in the reports I sell.
>Of course they'd like less
>competition and for me to
>stay out of Wyoming, and
>I'd like less competition too
>and would rather see them
>stay home and spend quality
>time with the wives and
>kids. We all want less
>competition.
>
>There you go. I said ?sell?
>numerous times, but no matter
>how many times I say
>it, or you say it,
>I still don't need a
>permit or license to sell,
>share, trade, barter, pass along
>or give away the information
>between my ears. Maybe this
>year I will need one,
>but not right now and
>my belief is I won't
>need one and don't need
>one. We'll see in a
>couple of months what the
>state of Wyoming thinks via
>the votes of their elected
>officials.
>
>I am a professional information seller,
>trader, barterer, give awayer and
>pass alonger. Have been for
>18 years. And I do
>have good information that will
>increase a persons chance of
>success immensely.
>
>All this scouting talk has me
>fired up and ready to
>find more big bucks this
>year.
>
>
>>Founder your correct to SHARE info
>>you shouldn't.
>>
>>But your SELLING info. As
>>a "professional".
>>
>>As for the customer not needing
>>licensing, again your right.
>>The sub contractor has the
>>responsibility to be legal.
>>Founders CLIENTS(what he calls folks
>>he "shares" with) don't bear
>>responsibility.
>>
>>Founder you keep trying to say
>>your sharing this info.
>>Where? Where on this
>>site can I find your
>>pics, trail GPS, water sources,
>>estimated score?
>>Where? If your sharing it,
>>it should be available.
>>
>>Your SELLING IT.
>>
>>Or is your contention your CLIENTS(professional
>>word used to describe PAYING
>>customers) are just SHARING $1500?
>>
>>
>>Your a Professional.
>>
>>If not, why the hell did
>>dudes pay you? Are
>>you a charity?
>>
>>Words have meanings. Your trying
>>to play games, no wonder
>>the Wyoming guys are mad.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"The only thing that stops a
>>bad guy with a gun
>>is a good guy with
>>a gun"
>
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Good luck with the Wyoming boys. I'm sure they will love your "first amendment" argument.

Still say I will never get the mindset that sits on a mtn top looking a deer, and thinks "how can I make some money on that". But, that's why your popular in Wyoming and I'm hunting ducks.

For the record, I agree the outfitters motives ain't pure, you just made it easy for them to come after you.

Hope you have successful hunting in 2018.

Hope this "business" goes down in flames. Its a pretty sad way to make money.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Oh and wyo backcountry. Haha or so your name says... I wonder if that is just a guy trying pretend to be something he isn't.

Anyway be a man and pm me with your real name or even better put it on here if you would like. Then maybe I can respect you enough to actually respond to your comments
 
>Founder should just join forces with
>Rob with NTO. Ha 2
>peas in a pod there!
>

He found a great guy in working for Sy last year, LOL, as they are two peas in a pod and don't give a chit about anything but making money on the game we all love and respect!
 
>Oh and wyo backcountry. Haha or
>so your name says...
>I wonder if that is
>just a guy trying pretend
>to be something he isn't.
>
>
>Anyway be a man and pm
>me with your real name
>or even better put it
>on here if you would
>like. Then maybe I can
>respect you enough to actually
>respond to your comments

Those are the same thoughts and feelings I have when guys come on here posting chit, attacking people, and don't even have the balls to post their own name so we at least know who we're dealing with!
 
Hopefully you used a better lock on your closet than Mr. Hyopcrite did on his. Toss them stones brother, toss them stones. Just keep the closet locked and you can fool all others.


>>Founder should just join forces with
>>Rob with NTO. Ha 2
>>peas in a pod there!
>>
>
>He found a great guy in
>working for Sy last year,
>LOL, as they are two
>peas in a pod and
>don't give a chit about
>anything but making money on
>the game we all love
>and respect!


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
I'm amazed at the venom this thread has brought out. I've been accused of getting fired up though, so I guess we all have our passions.

I don't necessarily have a strong opinion on scouting services, but I do think it should likely require a license (whether from USFS or WYGF) as it's the commercialization of a public resource.

My biggest problem with the proposed bill is it comes from WYOGA, which I feel doesn't represent public land hunters well and is therefore a group I tend to oppose.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Grizz you are correct in the fact that the way this bill is written up is very heavily Wyoga influenced and other organizations I might add and I hate that.
 
Topgun you and I have had our differences and don't see eye to ey on everything, but when it comes to this seems we are on the same page for sure
 
Guys, I could be wrong, but I doubt this bill will see the light of day this upcoming session. Here in Wyo, on even numbered years, it's a shorter "budget" session. Non budget bills require a 2/3 vote just to make it to the floor for debate. I doubt this issue will a high priority with lawmakers given our economic problems in Wyo.
Don
 
Awesome read. I don't care one way or another about this.
But one thing that I found really funny. Maybe because it was towards the end was Tknez.

Tknez (pot)calling Founder(kettle) black. Absolutely hilarious.




"Go hunt for meat at Walmart."
 
Ok, I'll be the odd one out on this deal...

For those demonizing Brian for selling/exploiting wildlife for personal gain: this is what the whole guiding/outfitting industry is. So to take issue with Brian's service based on that principle, you have to be against the guiding/outfitting industry as well (?).... if the concern is over harvest of older age class deer, I think the only way to ensure that doesn't happen is to limit the number of tags in Western Wyoming (?)

Those who are demonizing Brian for placing Non-Res hunters in the areas that they have invested blood, sweat, and tears into finding: I get it. I've had the same type of thing happen to me. It totally sucks... but, a guide/outfitter could just as easily do the same. Life isn't fair, and we have to learn to adapt. The joys of hunting public land. So, again, I think Brian is being unjustly demonized (?)


Please understand, I'm no special pleader for Brian. I just think that if everyone is intellectually honest with themselves, some of the positions that have been taken could be a little hypocritical or misaligned.

I don't think Founders service is necessarily aimed at the lazy individuals. I watched my old man, due to buisiness ventures, work 16+ hour day, 7 days a week for nearly 3 years. For somebody in a similar scenario, could you blame them or call them lazy for paying for Founders service when G is taking 6-7 points as a non-res?

Point being, please don't let emotions overrule rational thinking. Obviously Founder has found a niche, which is currently legal. Right, wrong, or indifferent. If you disagree with the system, then work to change it. But don't shred a guy for operating within the current legal constraints.... (I honestly have my doubts, that all this would go away if Founder possessed whatever license people think he should obtain.)

... not trying to get on a soap box, but just hoping to get people thinking honestly about some of the arguments made, and to try to keep emotion from interfering with rational debate.
 
CHOICES. We all make them. I don't know founder, but I'm guessing his CHOICES mean his truck has xxx,xxx miles on it.

Doubt he owns a Toyhauler, or rzr. Being on the mtn is what he does.

If you live away, or have no time, that's a CHOICE as well. You chose something else was more important. What guys who use these services want is freedom from those choices. That's really what your buying. Founder is no wizard. No secret. Time and effort lead to success. If you chose to do neither then you chose to not have success.

I was looking at AZ thinking about javalina. Arizona has a section about fair chase. That's where I believe this lies(take the business side out of it.

I believe fair chase means the hunter should be there. The guide puts them there. I don't think its fair chase for a dude to sit in town waiting for a houndsman to tree a cat then drive out and shoot it(the h oundsman is fair chasing), I don't see much difference in this case. And face it. Brian may claim he wouldn't sit on a deer and sat phone a client, the next guy probably will. You either have a standard or u have none.

Its not about your dad, or mine, its about a basic agreement we should have with the animals we hunt. They should get a chance. And that chance I believe should be human error. These services help to erase human error. Like it or not, but hunting depends on us being unsuccessful a lot more than we are successful.

Its just another in a rapidly growing list of things we need to address.
I truly believe the easiest rule or reg should be the hunter has to be there




"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
I may not be as great of a deer hunter as these dudes passing on the 190 inch bucks that I point guys towards, but I do have a small amount of experience hunting bucks, and I can tell you, just cause you know where a buck was in July or August does not mean he's going to be easy to kill.

Before you start talking about how fair chase is tossed out the window when I tell someone where I saw a buck in Wyoming, you ought to at least have one day of experience under your belt.

Talk is real cheap and easy. How about come September I tell you where a buck is living and you can backpack in and invest the time and just take a photo of that deer?

Then you earn the right to talk about how I took the fair chase out of the hunt. You up for that? Or just want to talk about how easy I make it and how fair chase is gone?

I promise you, your talk is far less taxing.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>I may not be as great
>of a deer hunter as
>these dudes passing on the
>190 inch bucks that I
>point guys towards, but I
>do have a small amount
>of experience hunting bucks, and
>I can tell you, just
>cause you know where a
>buck was in July or
>August does not mean he's
>going to be easy to
>kill.
>
>Before you start talking about how
>fair chase is tossed out
>the window when I tell
>someone where I saw a
>buck in Wyoming, you ought
>to at least have one
>day of experience under your
>belt.
>
>Talk is real cheap and easy.
>How about come September I
>tell you where a buck
>is living and you can
>backpack in and invest the
>time and just take a
>photo of that deer?
>
>Then you earn the right to
>talk about how I took
>the fair chase out of
>the hunt. You up for
>that? Or just want to
>talk about how easy I
>make it and how fair
>chase is gone?
>
>I promise you, your talk is
>far less taxing.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Come September ill be on n slope of Uintah with a bow with a 12yr old and a 7yr old trying to arrow an elk. Without a pro telling me how to do it. Hopefully mid Sept ill be with that same 12yr old on the open bull youth hunt. End of Sept me and those 2 boys will be on the Manti muzzy hunting, without a pro. Believe it or not, it can be done.

Besides your the one claiming 4000% increase in odds, meaning NONE of your clients has a chance without you.

If you don't make it easier, what are guys buying? Who taught you? A consultant?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-17 AT 06:13PM (MST)[p]Before you start talking about how fair chase is tossed out the window when I tell someone where I saw a buck in Wyoming, you ought to at least have one day of experience under your belt.

I totally agree. Who are u selling to?

Guys with years of experience up there ain't buying. Its guys who don't have time to gain it, or don't want to.

You earn your deer, no doubt. Sell me a pkg, having never hunted it, did I?

And yeah. After 40 years hunting deer. Even this blind squirrel will find a nut when u tell me where it is.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
What are you selling? If its not a shortcut. If its not an easier way. What the hell do u charge $1500 for?

It takes you 30 days of busting hump to find these deer, yet you Selling some dude the locations doesn't make it easier?

Why are they paying you?
Of course it makes it easier. Like you said "4000?".

No. After decades hunting muleys would I kill a 190 buck my first time in that country, most likely not, baring plain luck.

So what are the odds of a guy "with little mule deer experience" pulling it off?

You sell a way for a guy to sit home, or in the office, to gain the experience it takes years of mtn time to gain.

So sell them the ability to NOT BE THERE.




"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
I take it you're not going to take the challenge and then share first hand knowledge on whether all fair chase was removed from the hunt?

No doubt me giving you an area to search is extremely helpful, but does it take the fair chase from the game? I think not and believe you should have some experience in the shoes of the boys I help before talking smack about how easy it is for them once I contribute my part.

Walk in their shoes. Backpack in 4-5 miles and 2800 vertical feet. Spend 5-6 days in a little tent with some snow, rain, wind and cold testing you. Find that buck and send me a photo, then tell us about fair chase and how easy it was with my intelligence at your finger tips.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
K, this is the last ill comment on this...

Personally, I think there is some fallacy in the mindset that we should give our unwavering support to the guiding industry, while at the same time bash Founder's scouting service. (....If the premise for such a mindset is to keep the resource from being exploited, and to stay as true to the definition of "fair chase" as possible.)
-A guiding service will often do everything except pull the trigger. Scout the buck. Find the buck. Make the stalk on the buck. Etc. Obviously, the client is there every step of the way..... but essentially all the factors and decisions that lead up to that buck being harvested are made by the guide.
-A scouting service like Brian's will put a guy in an area where a buck has/is living. Every decision and move from that point on is up to the client. I believe this kind of service puts the odds back in the animals favor. (At least relative to the guiding service)
The reason I felt compelled to chime in on this thread, is because I feel we are seeing the same tactics that the anti's use. The "if I don't agree with it, it should be outlawed. And even though it's legal, we'll try to shame those into conforming" mentality. While I get that it's done with the best of intentions for the sake of the resource, I think it's best to be somewhat cautious in this regard.... I'm not saying that we can't disagree, but the truth of the matter is that change is inevitable. As technology progresses, so will tactics , and so will the popularity of hunting trophy class animals. 20 years ago, we never would have believed that we'd have something like google earth that we could scout terrain any where any time from our home.... honestly, I'm sure at some point in the future GE will progress to where we can scout individual animals from our computer.... Bottom line, is that it is the Game Deparments job to manage these resources (despite what you think of them) and the only way to counter technological advancements and tactics will be to limit tag numbers.
 
>I take it you're not going
>to take the challenge and
>then share first hand knowledge
>?
>
>
>No doubt me giving you an
>area to search is extremely
>helpful, but does it take
>the fair chase from the
>game? I think not and
>believe you should have some
>experience in the shoes of
>the boys I help before
>talking smack about how easy
>it is for them once
>I contribute my part.
>
>Walk in their shoes. Backpack in
>4-5 miles and 2800 vertical
>feet. Spend 5-6 days in
>a little tent with some
>snow, rain, wind and cold
>testing you. Find that buck
>and send me a photo,
>then tell us about fair
>chase and how easy it
>was with my intelligence at
>your finger tips.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!


Their odds were 4000x worse without you by your estimation.

Those are your words, not mine.

Just read the guy with cancer, HOPE THAT IS GONE!!!!!

He said as much, without you he wouldn't have had a chance.

You can't have it both ways Founder. You can't make claims like 4000x better with your help, then claim your not DRASTICALLY changing things.

It has to be one or the other. Can't be both.

5 days in a tent where you told them to camp. 2800 feet up the trail you told them to go.

Without it, they most likely wouldn't get there, know when they were there, or where to look.

I believe you, I believe your that good.


You substitute years of learning and experience, for $1500.

Did I miss something?

Am I to believe the first year you went there you were as good as you are now? Or has those years and experiences made you better?

4000x better. Your words not mine.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
"... and the only
>way to counter technological advancements
>and tactics will be to
>limit tag numbers."

Nothing personal, but this is a very short sighted, naive, and ill-informed statement.
 
Founder,

You win. You got me.

Mostly because I'm confused as to what you think you do vs what u do

And honestly, sad. Sad the "consulting" is even a thing.

But, on a positive note.

I hunt elk on a 8/100 ratio unit.

Deer on a 17/100 unit.

I'm happy my spots are not real good. Guarantees that the ##### show of guides and consultants(other than Bess) will stay far away.
Guarantees that the dudes I run into will just be normal, average stiffs, grinding away because they love it, not for fame.
So that makes me happy.

But lastly. It makes me happy that I haven't sold out what I love.

Regardless of how many 190 bucks you find, you will never be able to say that.

But, you win. So I guess there's that.



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>Founder,
>
>You win. You got me.
>
>
>Mostly because I'm confused as to
>what you think you do
>vs what u do
>
>And honestly, sad. Sad the "consulting"
>is even a thing.
>
>But, on a positive note.
>
>I hunt elk on a 8/100
>ratio unit.
>
>Deer on a 17/100 unit.
>
>I'm happy my spots are not
>real good. Guarantees that
>the ##### show of guides
>and consultants(other than Bess) will
>stay far away.
>Guarantees that the dudes I run
>into will just be normal,
>average stiffs, grinding away because
>they love it, not for
>fame.
>So that makes me happy.
>
>But lastly. It makes me
>happy that I haven't sold
>out what I love.
>
>Regardless of how many 190 bucks
>you find, you will never
>be able to say that.
>
>
>But, you win. So I
>guess there's that.
>
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"



EASY hoss!

But You're kinda Right!

Ain't nobody in their Right Mind gonna Do what I do just to Try & Find a PISSCUTTER!

If Founder could Enhance My Odds by 4000% in the Unit I Hunt,4000% of 0 is still 0!

A Mature Buck around here is a Ghost in the Woods!










It Won't Be Long and a 22" PISSCUTTER will be known as a Trophy that will be put on the Wall!




90087hankjr.jpg
 
>>Founder,
>>
>>You win. You got me.
>>
>>
>>Mostly because I'm confused as to
>>what you think you do
>>vs what u do
>>
>>And honestly, sad. Sad the "consulting"
>>is even a thing.
>>
>>But, on a positive note.
>>
>>I hunt elk on a 8/100
>>ratio unit.
>>
>>Deer on a 17/100 unit.
>>
>>I'm happy my spots are not
>>real good. Guarantees that
>>the ##### show of guides
>>and consultants(other than Bess) will
>>stay far away.
>>Guarantees that the dudes I run
>>into will just be normal,
>>average stiffs, grinding away because
>>they love it, not for
>>fame.
>>So that makes me happy.
>>
>>But lastly. It makes me
>>happy that I haven't sold
>>out what I love.
>>
>>Regardless of how many 190 bucks
>>you find, you will never
>>be able to say that.
>>
>>
>>But, you win. So I
>>guess there's that.
>>
>>
>>
>>"The only thing that stops a
>>bad guy with a gun
>>is a good guy with
>>a gun"
>
>
>
>EASY hoss!
>
>But You're kinda Right!
>
>Ain't nobody in their Right Mind
>gonna Do what I do
>just to Try & Find
>a PISSCUTTER!
>
>If Founder could Enhance My Odds
>by 4000% in the Unit
>I Hunt,4000% of 0 is
>still 0!
>
>A Mature Buck around here is
>a Ghost in the Woods!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>It Won't Be Long and a
>22" PISSCUTTER will be known
>as a Trophy that will
>be put on the Wall!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
90087hankjr.jpg


I don't blame them Wyoming boys for wanting to end him. I remember the show when Doyle was chasing Spidey. Sounds like it like that up there every year.

Thought you became a consultant that get taken down?

It will be funny in a couple years when he's on here crying about all the new "consultants" running around up there screwing it up for everyone.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
> "... and the only
>>way to counter technological advancements
>>and tactics will be to
>>limit tag numbers."
>
>Nothing personal, but this is a
>very short sighted, naive, and
>ill-informed statement.


....poorly stated for sure.... (and I honestly hope I'm wrong on this subject.)

Yes, there are ways to reduce success rates. However, innovation typically outpaces regulation. Most people seek a competitive edge over others to try and put the odds in their favor. (I.e. Long range weapons, hiring guiding/consulting service, use of GE, OnX, etc.) Therefore, I believe that managing agencies will ultimately limit tag numbers, rather than attempt to constantly evolve with technology to keep success rates at an acceptable level. (I'm talking long term. 20 + years)

Just as an extreme example: In an attempt to reduce success rates, hunting became "traditional archery" only. How long would it take for industry and innovation to allow people to shoot 100 yds? I already see guys shooting recurves with fixed sights and a release. Obviously, an unrealistic scenario, but you get the idea.
Bottom line, regardless of the regulations imposed to reduce success rates (weapon restrictions, change season dates, etc) give it enough time, and people will find a workaround and put the odds back in their favor.
Just my opinion.
 
I did not read hardly any of this. But I will just say this:

Founder, you make 1 cent for every page view?

You're welcome. You owe me lunch!!! :)
 
I don't know whey there is so much fuss on this subject. There is no way Founder can find enough big bucks to make much money on it. Maybe he can make back part of his food and travel investment at the best. I met Founder once while out hunting and found him and his companions to be really nice guys. I know he has to pinch pennies because a lot of our conversation was about the hunts he would like to make for himself or his family "if he could afford it".
 
>I don't know whey there is
>so much fuss on this
>subject. There is no
>way Founder can find enough
>big bucks to make much
>money on it. Maybe
>he can make back part
>of his food and travel
>investment at the best. I
>met Founder once while out
>hunting and found him and
>his companions to be really
>nice guys. I know he
>has to pinch pennies because
>a lot of our conversation
>was about the hunts he
>would like to make for
>himself or his family "if
>he could afford it".


You obviously haven't been following his scouting packages because at the prices he's asking it shouldn't take more than selling one or two packages to more than pay for his scouting expenses!
 
It 205 miles from slc to Afton. I believe he spends about 30 days up there. If he made 15 trips, driving my 2500hd with the 6.0, he would be hard pressed to burn $1k in gas.

You can do the math, and I saw in one video he was in a car(a lot better gas mileage).

Selling one premium pkg would cover it easy. More than one is pocket change. And no one knows what his deal with sns pays.

Nor how many he sells.

But lets be honest and see it for what it is. A business. And let him be honest, he will sell as many pkgs as he has customers for. Same as any other business.






"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-17 AT 09:27PM (MST)[p]It is easy to see why many of you are upset with founder. The problem I have with it is that w y o g a is upset with founder because it is hurting their business. They don't care about you, they don't care about me, and the only reason they care about the deer is because deer are money to them. I have heard that there will be a push to make a certain percentage of non resident licenses guided only. WYOGA is a joke. I personally think it's hilarious that Founder is hurting their business. So they get a little competition and want to make a law against it?
 
WYOGA is definitely a joke and exactly for the reasons you stated. They may "push" for set aside tags for guided hunters, but it will never fly and I hope transferable landowner tags also never flies!
 
The WYOGA being a joke is still a separate issue from the "scout business"

Listened to an old Newberg podcast. He was explaining how for any given filming its about $500 fee to the gov.

Founder might not be as legal as he claims to be. Newberg said same was true of his you tube filming.

Old "holy crusader" Rob might be right. Problem is, he most likely implicating himself as well.



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
I really dont understand what the problem is with Founder selling info. Reading the entire thread it sounds like the problem is he gets paid for the information? Or that he give the information period?
 
Maybe they will just create a permit for Founder to buy? then everything be fine, right? If you are against what Founder is doing then you should be against outfitting... unless you are a hypocrite. [font face="verdana" color="green"]
Jake Swensen
 
>Maybe they will just create a
>permit for Founder to buy?
>then everything be fine, right?
>If you are against what
>Founder is doing then you
>should be against outfitting... unless
>you are a hypocrite. [font
>face="verdana" color="green"]
> Jake Swensen

I'm against outfitting on public land.

Guess I'm fine then?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>>Maybe they will just create a
>>permit for Founder to buy?
>>then everything be fine, right?
>>If you are against what
>>Founder is doing then you
>>should be against outfitting... unless
>>you are a hypocrite. [font
>>face="verdana" color="green"]
>> Jake Swensen
>
>I'm against outfitting on public land.
>
>
>Guess I'm fine then?
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"

Same here, so that makes two of us that are fine!
 
Hoss,

Just what do you consider to be a normal average stiff? Is he the guy that reloads all his own bullets, because he's pissed that someone found a way of making money by mass producing them? The guy that doesn't use scopes, binos, range finders, camo, because someones profitting from the sport, by selling them?

What I've learnbed from reading your post over the years, is that the normal average still is only someone that thinks exactly like you, with Zero variance.

I have a friend that has provided the same servive as Founder for the last 15+ years, and I have never heard anyone complain about his service. I know several people, including guides from out of state, that have used his service. Maybe his case is different because he provides the service in his own state. I don't know.

Brian provides a legal service that is not much different than a travel agency. If he's not paying his taxes on that income, whats that got to with hunting.

Yelum

YBU

7019yelumlogosig2.jpg
 
On another now-locked thread on this subject (http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/24649.html) somebody stated that "selling knowledge" couldn't be regulated. I countered that many services that require licensure sell knowledge such as doctors, lawyers, and accountants.

Vanilla made a very good argument that companies like LegalZoom provide legal information without offering legal advice and are thus not required to be licensed as attorneys. This is an excellent point.

My response was about "the new online real estate service that tried a similar argument by collecting a fee and then providing contract forms to buyers and sellers to negotiate a real estate contract between themselves.

The Division said they were practicing real estate without a license and forced them to get licensed and hire licensed agents. So, it really is very situationally dependent."

Founder then said, "I'd like to read more about this example you're citing. I've never seen it and not finding anything on it in a google search. Can you message me more detail to use in a search? What state(s) this ban is in, etc.???

Sharing information (fact) and advice (educated opinion) are for sure different."

I pm'd Founder my cell number but I think the discussion kind of died and I never heard from him.

**************

Well, the Utah Division of Real Estate just released this,

In a stipulated order dated October 18, 2017, (company name redacted) admitted to offering a variety of services to individuals seeking to sell or buy real estate located in the state of Utah without employing licensed sales agents and without registering with the Division of Real Estate as a brokerage. The Division believes that these activities were in violation of Utah law. In mitigation, (company name redacted) believed that its activities were exempt from licensure and, after investigation of these activities by the Division, voluntarily agreed to register with the Division as a brokerage and comply with Utah licensing requirements. (company name redacted) agreed to pay a civil penalty of $25,000.

**************

Founder, the above company clearly believed they were on the right side of the law, as you do, but ultimately ended up getting state-licensed and paying a fine of $25,000. My interpretation is that this example goes to show the narrow line companies like yours, this real estate company, and LegalZoom are walking by commercializing knowledge or advice without licensure. As I said in my original post, its very "situationally dependent" and one person's "Free Speech" is another persons unlicensed business.

I still don't have a strong opinion either way on your business so my post shouldn't be construed as such, but I wanted to post this as an update since you asked for more information.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Very interesting information in your post Grizzly---Thanks for that update and Happy New Year to ya!
 
Yeah you got him, mister IRS police inforcement. Honestly this has nothing to do with protecting animals from being killed it has to do with citizens that think government is their savior and will sell out to enforce the stupidity of government. This is about power, money, and control. It also was heavely lobbied by the outfitters association I'm sure. Brian I'd just keep doing what your doing and let them fail in their attempt to punish you.

All you that are trying to prove him wrong need to look at why you are trying. What difference to you does it make? If Founder was licensed by Wyoming to guild would it change your mind. If so then you must have a vested interest in the outfitters association. IMO no one has the right to govern national public land the way Wyoming does. This law is just another way they are over reaching their jurisdiction. Wildlife management doesn't involve selling information and why does the bill exempt government employees?

?Founder,

If you love reading up on law, then I suggest you read up on the constitution! This in no way violates anyone?s rights. Also, you aren't publishing information, you're SELLING IT!!! BOTTOM LINE!

In addition, if your facinated by law, then why are you breaking it? Have you paid your taxes yet on any of the income you made selling scouting packages? No, no you haven't!

Man, you are something else....?
 
>>Worse?!?! Darn it, and try so
>>hard to be the man
>>you need me to be.....
>>ha ha
>>
>>Seriously, I'm very proud of what
>>I do, what I've built
>>and who I am. Can?t
>>wait to do more of
>>what I do.
>>
>>Brian Latturner
>>MonsterMuleys.com
>>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>>on Facebook!
>
>Put your name on it then.
> Build a site, like
>the one above, advertise it.
>
>
>You don't, because...
>
>The taxmen would be interested.
>
>You don't want to draw to
>much attention or the states
>might try to shut it
>down.
>
>This is your site. Everyone
>here can see your sponsors
>and advertisers. And, we
>try to support them for
>supporting you.
>
>Funny how you haven't been so
>in the open with something
>your proud of. Wonder
>why? Outfitters, guides, onyx,
>go hunt might not be
>so quick to support their
>competition?
>
>Forget the anti s. I
>don't know how to explain
>this to casual hunters.
>
>But I notice again so I
>didn't answer where you draw
>the line. What separates
>u from a drone?
>Besides mechanical parts?
>And I'm pretty sure your anti
>drone. Obviously anti flying.
> Anti LR. What
>separates this?
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"

Hossblur

What is your obsession with enforcing an unconstitutional law...Taxation? Let me guess you rely on government to pay your mortgage. Get a life
 
>Yeah you got him, mister IRS
>police inforcement. Honestly this has
>nothing to do with protecting
>animals from being killed it
>has to do with citizens
>that think government is their
>savior and will sell out
>to enforce the stupidity of
>government. This is about power,
>money, and control. It also
>was heavely lobbied by the
>outfitters association I'm sure. Brian
>I'd just keep doing what
>your doing and let them
>fail in their attempt to
>punish you.
>
>All you that are trying to
>prove him wrong need to
>look at why you are
>trying. What difference to you
>does it make? If Founder
>was licensed by Wyoming to
>guild would it change your
>mind. If so then you
>must have a vested interest
>in the outfitters association. IMO
>no one has the right
>to govern national public land
>the way Wyoming does. This
>law is just another way
>they are over reaching their
>jurisdiction. Wildlife management doesn't involve
>selling information and why does
>the bill exempt government employees?
>
>
>?Founder,
>
>If you love reading up on
>law, then I suggest you
>read up on the constitution!
>This in no way violates
>anyone?s rights. Also, you aren't
>publishing information, you're SELLING IT!!!
>BOTTOM LINE!
>
>In addition, if your facinated by
>law, then why are you
>breaking it? Have you paid
>your taxes yet on any
>of the income you made
>selling scouting packages? No, no
>you haven't!
>
>Man, you are something else....?


You are so far off on your post about the reasons for this Bill that it's a shame. This kind of stuff is ruining what hunting was in the past and still should be and it's not about killing the biggest animal on the mountain by buying information. Now it's all one big industry with many just wanting to cut corners and put their name in some book no matter how they do it or how much money it takes.
 
>What is your obsession with enforcing
>an unconstitutional law...Taxation? Let me
>guess you rely on government
>to pay your mortgage. Get
>a life


You have no idea what you're talking about when you say "unconstitutional law" when talking about the Bill that's now in the Wyoming Legislature. FYI each state can control what is done or not done regarding the animals that live within their boundaries and it's been upheld in court, so go back to the drawing board Sir!
 
>>>Worse?!?! Darn it, and try so
>>>hard to be the man
>>>you need me to be.....
>>>ha ha
>>>
>>>Seriously, I'm very proud of what
>>>I do, what I've built
>>>and who I am. Can?t
>>>wait to do more of
>>>what I do.
>>>
>>>Brian Latturner
>>>MonsterMuleys.com
>>>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>>>on Facebook!
>>
>>Put your name on it then.
>> Build a site, like
>>the one above, advertise it.
>>
>>
>>You don't, because...
>>
>>The taxmen would be interested.
>>
>>You don't want to draw to
>>much attention or the states
>>might try to shut it
>>down.
>>
>>This is your site. Everyone
>>here can see your sponsors
>>and advertisers. And, we
>>try to support them for
>>supporting you.
>>
>>Funny how you haven't been so
>>in the open with something
>>your proud of. Wonder
>>why? Outfitters, guides, onyx,
>>go hunt might not be
>>so quick to support their
>>competition?
>>
>>Forget the anti s. I
>>don't know how to explain
>>this to casual hunters.
>>
>>But I notice again so I
>>didn't answer where you draw
>>the line. What separates
>>u from a drone?
>>Besides mechanical parts?
>>And I'm pretty sure your anti
>>drone. Obviously anti flying.
>> Anti LR. What
>>separates this?
>>"The only thing that stops a
>>bad guy with a gun
>>is a good guy with
>>a gun"
>
>Hossblur
>
>What is your obsession with enforcing
>an unconstitutional law...Taxation? Let me
>guess you rely on government
>to pay your mortgage. Get
>a life

I'm a licensed contractor and about every day get to bid against guys that aren't. And everyone one of them plays the same "I didn't think I needed to" game.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 

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