Final Muzzleloader Scope Committee Recommendation

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slamdunk said:
Interpret it however you'd like.
I only talk down to him because if you have followed along, he has attempted to belittle me, slander me, ridiculous assumptions and childish accusations with absolutely zero knowledge of how the system works or even my personal position within it.
All 100% assumptions.

Anyone can sit on a keyboard and point fingers, but sit back and do absolutely nothing to either learn the other side of things or even stand for their own cause.

A waste of your time?
That's perfectly fine.....let's not match wits on personal time wasted.

Funny thing to mention about your MM handle that almost threw me off.
Fellow Tech Committee member of HuntinFool Magazine is the VP of operations.
He told us last Monday in our meeting that he had his muzzy dialed in for 900 yards and was headed out on his hunt the next day.
Care to guess what his stance and vote was on muzzy scopes?
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For a Mod on an internet hunting forum, you sure have paper thin skin….

Anyone can SAY anything. Just like I said I was going to gather up illegal trail cams…. Do you realize how slow a muzzleloader bullet is traveling and the energy output these guns produce at 900 yards with the powder selection we are limited to in utah? I wouldn’t be surprised if it bounced off at that range (assuming he could actually even hit in the same zip code as the animal he’s shouting at was standing in)

Another fine example of the committee members that are there to represent and speak for our average hunters in utah and make these hard decisions ? I’d expect nothing less from a huntin fool representative though. Definitely par for the course on that one!

I’m still waiting for you to post the list of names of members in the committee and who they represent.
 
Bux n Dux said:
For a Mod on an internet hunting forum, you sure have paper thin skin….

Anyone can SAY anything. Just like I said I was going to gather up illegal trail cams…. Do you realize how slow a muzzleloader bullet is traveling and the energy output these guns produce at 900 yards with the powder selection we are limited to in utah? I wouldn’t be surprised if it bounced off at that range (assuming he could actually even hit in the same zip code as the animal he’s shouting at was standing in)

Another fine example of the committee members that are there to represent and speak for our average hunters in utah and make these hard decisions ? I’d expect nothing less from a huntin fool representative though. Definitely par for the course on that one!

I’m still waiting for you to post the list of names of members in the committee and who they represent.
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You should probably be spending more time practicing your shooting and tracking skills versus arguing over something you don't have a snowballs chance in Hell of changing or even being heard.
 
slamdunk said:
You should probably be spending more time practicing your shooting and tracking skills versus arguing over something you don't have a snowballs chance in Hell of changing or even being heard.
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Obviously you’re hearing me because you keep replying. Thanks for openly admitting that the opinion and voice from the public won’t be heard. Like I said in the beginning, the decisions were made loooooong before now. This is just a formality. Same with any other issues we have faced in the past and will face in the future. The back room meetings out of the public view is where the real work is done.

Shooting and tracking skills? I can shoot just Fine. Ask the deer I shot on Thursday. He traveled 10 yards after impact, and most of that was rolling down hill. Shooting isn’t something I struggle with. But I appreciate your assumptions.

Again, still waiting for the list…
 
Bux n Dux said:
Obviously you’re hearing me because you keep replying. Thanks for openly admitting that the opinion and voice from the public won’t be heard. Like I said in the beginning, the decisions were made loooooong before now. This is just a formality. Same with any other issues we have faced in the past and will face in the future. The back room meetings out of the public view is where the real work is done.

Shooting and tracking skills? I can shoot just Fine. Ask the deer I shot on Thursday. He traveled 10 yards after impact, and most of that was rolling down hill. Shooting isn’t something I struggle with. But I appreciate your assumptions.

Again, still waiting for the list…
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I've already told you my one vote didn't matter, so your bawling to me will have zero merit.

You're the one who openly stated you already have a black eye with the DWR.

Go ahead, attend a RAC and spew your disappointment against their system, make childish comments about knee pads and report back how well it worked out for you.

You know what shooting and tracking skills I'm referring too......
 
Bux n Dux said:
No, I don’t.

Still waiting for the list. Is there a reason you’re not wanting to post it up? ?
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It's not my obligation to supply you a list of members, especially after your childish personal attacks on all of them.

And yes.....you do know exactly what I was referring to.
 
slamdunk said:
It's not my obligation to supply you a list of members, especially after your childish personal attacks on all of them.

And yes.....you do know exactly what I was referring to.
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No I don’t know what you’re referring to. at all.

MDF. Not RMEF. My apologies…

Geez that’s even worse ? no wonder you didn’t want to pipe up more on who you were representing. Also explains why you’re so touchy about the knee pads comment ?
 
slamdunk said:
Funny thing to mention about your MM handle that almost threw me off.
Fellow Tech Committee member of HuntinFool Magazine is the VP of operations.
He told us last Monday in our meeting that he had his muzzy dialed in for 900 yards and was headed out on his hunt the next day.
Care to guess what his stance and vote was on muzzy scopes?
Click to expand...
Anyone else find it extremely hypocritical that a committee member would vote to ban this stuff, and then openly brag about how he is heading out to use the very stuff he just voted to ban at the meeting?

If the guy is truly shooting game at that range with his muzzleloader he needs slapped up side the head. And then the Gaul to impose restrictions on others when he can't even restrict himself.

And he's probably promoted that behavior in his magazine for years.
 
I just ran the numbers on my Paramount. 40 cal muzzleloader.

These are the number for my load At 900 yards
-Bullet would drop 391.19" over 32 feet
-Velocity would be 1078 ft/s
-Energy would be 645 ft-lbs (common acceptance is 1000+ for deer, and 1500+ for elk according to Google, I'm no expert)
-MOA adjustment of 37.67
-with a 10mph cross wind the bullet would drift 115.18" over 9 feet

I'm sure this guy has a gun and load that is better than mine, but I'm sure it's still not all that much better to be justifying 900 yard shots at game. And if he isn't intending on shooting that far then why brag about it, especially in that setting.
 
JakeH said:
I just ran the numbers on my Paramount. 40 cal muzzleloader.

These are the number for my load At 900 yards
-Bullet would drop 391.19" over 32 feet
-Velocity would be 1078 ft/s
-Energy would be 645 ft-lbs (common acceptance is 1000+ for deer, and 1500+ for elk according to Google, I'm no expert)
-MOA adjustment of 37.67
-with a 10mph cross wind the bullet would drift 115.18" over 9 feet

I'm sure this guy has a gun and load that is better than mine, but I'm sure it's still not all that much better to be justifying 900 yard shots at game. And if he isn't intending on shooting that far then why brag about it, especially in that setting.
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Just to ruffle feathers and help push along their agenda. Nothing more.
 
JakeH said:
Anyone else find it extremely hypocritical that a committee member would vote to ban this stuff, and then openly brag about how he is heading out to use the very stuff he just voted to ban at the meeting?

If the guy is truly shooting game at that range with his muzzleloader he needs slapped up side the head. And then the Gaul to impose restrictions on others when he can't even restrict himself.

And he's probably promoted that behavior in his magazine for years.
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No, he clearly stated that "as long as the law permits me to do it, I will use it to my advantage.
If the WB says I can use a 4x, I'll use a 4x.....1x, I'll use a 1x or no scope at all".

What's hypocritical about that?

I have a 12x on mine and am all for deeper restrictions.
 
slamdunk said:
Please dear God I hope it doesn't go to 1000, it's already gone 300 too many already!
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We all need some entertainment!!
Wonder if I can get one of these, install a breach plug, and mount a HUGE scope on it.
That would be the ULTIMATE Utah road hunting muzzy set up. Heck, maybe I can hook up a computerized aiming system/ turret for it also!!!???????
IMG_1069.jpeg
 
LIK2HNT said:
We all need some entertainment!!
Wonder if I can get one of these, install a breach plug, and mount a HUGE scope on it.
That would be the ULTIMATE Utah road hunting muzzy set up. Heck, maybe I can hook up a computerized aiming system/ turret for it also!!!???????
View attachment 121244
Click to expand...
Well, it's still a "muzzleloader" by definition because it loads from the muzzle?!?
 
@Bux n Dux.

I've been reading. Seems shooting and tracking skills has come up a couple times.

Want to clue us in, or should we go digging?
 
I keep reading how it is not fair to take from muzzleloaders and not archery or rifle, and it is not fair because no one asked me my opinion on the adjustable power scopes on muzzleloaders.
You know what? I don't care if you think it is fair or not. No one asked me back in 2016 if I wanted adjustable power scopes to be allowed on muzzleloaders.
I will be honest take the scopes off, and I believe it will increase my odds on drawing out every other year.
For those that support adjustable scopes, be honest it is not about being fair.
 
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hossblur said:
@Bux n Dux.

I've been reading. Seems shooting and tracking skills has come up a couple times.

Want to clue us in, or should we go digging?
Click to expand...
Dig all you want. There’s nothing out there to find regarding those topics.

Not sure where he came up with that, but it’s a comical desperate attempt at trying to stir the pot
 
This is getting as good as a political debate. Slinging mud. Some of us will do our best to try to get this thread to 1000. ??
 
notdonhunting said:
I keep reading how it is not fair to take from muzzleloaders and not archery or rifle, and it is not fair because no one asked me my opinion on the adjustable power scopes on muzzleloaders.
You know what? I don't care if you think it is fair or not. No one asked me back in 2016 if I wanted adjustable power scopes to be allowed on muzzleloaders.
I will be honest take the scopes off, and I believe it will increase my odds on drawing out every other year.
For those that support adjustable scopes, be honest it is not about being fair.
Click to expand...
That is why I hope Utah copies and pastes in Idahos muzzy regs, I also believe hunting opportunities will increase if tougher requirements are implemented.
I would even support flint on steel ignition only if I can draw a tag every year.
 
Bux n Dux said:
Dig all you want. There’s nothing out there to find regarding those topics.

Not sure where he came up with that, but it’s a comical desperate attempt at trying to stir the pot
Click to expand...

Time will tell, but I'm guessing a bird will chirp eventually.

I'll get back to you when they do?
 
I don't post much myself, but I have to say this thread has been super interesting and successful at distracting me while at work.

I did go out on a general deer muzzleloader tag this last week. Saw lots of deer, could have shot lots of smaller bucks. Found one buck that was worth pursuing. Ultimately came back empty handed.

I much prefer hunting with a scope, but I would have been unsuccessful with or without the scope.
 
I have 2 boys. Shoot same CVA optimas. Same loads.

Oldest has a basic Cabela's 3x9 he bought.

Youngest stayed open because he "didn't want to waste money for a year"

Youngest missed a 18-20" 3x4 at about 175 yrds

Oldest didn't miss at 100.

Now, not science, but the youngest said his front covered most of the deer.

So, a 3x4 lives another day.

Which I suspect will happen some next year. And while bucks don't get pregnant,vits another on the landscape.

Btw, we saw fewer deer, not expected after 7months of winter. Did see more 3-4 yr old bucks. We had a blast, which, supposedly is the point

And dad gets to talk about how good a guide he is?
IMG_20230929_162518_01.jpg
 
I'll Bet The Top Of the Back Shot Took Him Down Quick!

Nice Job Boys!

Oh And Dad Too!

hossblur said:
I have 2 boys. Shoot same CVA optimas. Same loads.

Oldest has a basic Cabela's 3x9 he bought.

Youngest stayed open because he "didn't want to waste money for a year"

Youngest missed a 18-20" 3x4 at about 175 yrds

Oldest didn't miss at 100.

Now, not science, but the youngest said his front covered most of the deer.

So, a 3x4 lives another day.

Which I suspect will happen some next year. And while bucks don't get pregnant,vits another on the landscape.
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hossblur said:
Btw, we saw fewer deer, not expected after 7months of winter. Did see more 3-4 yr old bucks. We had a blast, which, supposedly is the point

And dad gets to talk about how good a guide he is?View attachment 121452
Click to expand...
 
Had a friend that picked up a turned in LE muzzy elk tag last minute. Bull down at 38 yards. It's more about the hunter than the weapon.
 
Anyone else notice @Bux n Dux got real quiet? Dude runs his mouth non stop, but for some reason he's gone MIA.

Wonder if he's just hoping things blow over?

"Poacher", the birds be a chirping.

Go ahead and blast @slamdunk, let's see what comes up shall we?
 
hossblur said:
Anyone else notice @Bux n Dux got real quiet? Dude runs his mouth non stop, but for some reason he's gone MIA.

Wonder if he's just hoping things blow over?

"Poacher", the birds be a chirping.

Go ahead and blast @slamdunk, let's see what comes up shall we?
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I was waiting for your to get back to me with the intel you were going to dig up? I wasn’t quiet. I was waiting in suspense! There was nothing else to say!
 
Bux n Dux said:
I was waiting for your to get back to me with the intel you were going to dig up? I wasn’t quiet. I was waiting in suspense! There was nothing else to say!
Click to expand...


I've heard how proud and honest you are. Figured you'd just like to shut us down.

What's funny, is you know, you know others know, and all of them are just laughing, waiting for one of us to drop it.
 
hossblur said:
Anyone else notice @Bux n Dux got real quiet? Dude runs his mouth non stop, but for some reason he's gone MIA.

Wonder if he's just hoping things blow over?

"Poacher", the birds be a chirping.

Go ahead and blast @slamdunk, let's see what comes up shall we?
Click to expand...
I am going to finally say something.....

I do know Bux n Dux personally.... Sometimes he can be a little rough around the edges.... He does have a little bit of a past... but who doesn't.

I will tell you this... If I needed help to get off of a mountain and my family did not answer their phones... He would be the #1 person for me to call and I guarantee that he would drop anything he was doing to help... And he would do that to help out anyone not just me.

For how much crap you and a couple other talk about knowing his past situation.... He has been open and public with it here multiple times.... Hell look at his old license plate... He NEVER lost hunting privileges..... He admits he messed up.... Hell just dm him and actually talk with him and I am sure he would talk with you.

Him and his family are some of the most killing people I know year in and year out.

I know he is a troll on here.... But in real life he is a good dude.
 
hossblur said:
I've heard how proud and honest you are. Figured you'd just like to shut us down.

What's funny, is you know, you know others know, and all of them are just laughing, waiting for one of us to drop it.
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Are you talking about 11 years ago? ? by all means, blast away
 
Mallardsx2 said:
Who really cares? If something isn't done, there won't be anything left worthwhile to hunt. So sick of the "division" of hunters excuse.
If you can't understand that muzzleloader technology needs to be limited to align with what was intended in the first place for introducing a "Muzzleloader season" then you are too far gone as it is to agree to anything.

Muzzleloader seasons were not designed/intended to allow people to kill animals at 200+ yards. If you think they were then you have your head in the sand.

The more efficient our technology becomes the more efficient we are at filling tags. The more tags we fill, the less opportunity to get out and actually hunt we all have.

Inlines and crossbows are the two worst things that ever happened to modern hunting seasons in my opinion.

I wonder how many people on this thread are truly worried about going home empty handed when hunting. lol My bet says a lot of them. They feel that they have to have a sense of success on a hunt. Sad.
Click to expand...
I disagree with your point about crossbows. I am a life long (now old) bow hunter. I had and used a COR for a couple years because of serious back injuries. I went back to my bow asap, against my Dr.s advice and I still use it.
I had a $2000. Tenpoint crossbow as it had a built in cocker, otherwise I couldn't have cocked the damn thing. It sucks beyond belief to lug around a crossbow. I carry my bow in a finger or two and don't even notice it. I can shoot a bow further and much faster than the crossbow. It was a decided and notable disadvantage for me.
Then again I spent many years practing with a bow year round...lots, and always with broadhead tipped arrows (it matters and VPAs can't be beat). I can shoot accurately out to 100 yards and do often. I do not shoot at game at that distance, but it makes those 50 yard shots very easy gimmes. Never even tried to shoot the crossbow that far. I too thought they would be an advantage, until I actually used one...it is not, at all. Unless perhaps you can't tune and shoot a bow properly and well.
 
Dryfly said:
I disagree with your point about crossbows. I am a life long (now old) bow hunter. I had and used a COR for a couple years because of serious back injuries. I went back to my bow asap, against my Dr.s advice and I still use it.
I had a $2000. Tenpoint crossbow as it had a built in cocker, otherwise I couldn't have cocked the damn thing. It sucks beyond belief to lug around a crossbow. I carry my bow in a finger or two and don't even notice it. I can shoot a bow further and much faster than the crossbow. It was a decided and notable disadvantage for me.
Then again I spent many years practing with a bow year round...lots, and always with broadhead tipped arrows (it matters and VPAs can't be beat). I can shoot accurately out to 100 yards and do often. I do not shoot at game at that distance, but it makes those 50 yard shots very easy gimmes. Never even tried to shoot the crossbow that far. I too thought they would be an advantage, until I actually used one...it is not, at all. Unless perhaps you can't tune and shoot a bow properly and well.
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I couldn’t agree more, crossbows suck.
I currently have a COR for a crossbow, and am super grateful the UDWR lets me use one.
I would definitely prefer my left hand back and would surrender my COR in a heartbeat.
 
Dryfly said:
I disagree with your point about crossbows. I am a life long (now old) bow hunter. I had and used a COR for a couple years because of serious back injuries. I went back to my bow asap, against my Dr.s advice and I still use it.
I had a $2000. Tenpoint crossbow as it had a built in cocker, otherwise I couldn't have cocked the damn thing. It sucks beyond belief to lug around a crossbow. I carry my bow in a finger or two and don't even notice it. I can shoot a bow further and much faster than the crossbow. It was a decided and notable disadvantage for me.
Then again I spent many years practing with a bow year round...lots, and always with broadhead tipped arrows (it matters and VPAs can't be beat). I can shoot accurately out to 100 yards and do often. I do not shoot at game at that distance, but it makes those 50 yard shots very easy gimmes. Never even tried to shoot the crossbow that far. I too thought they would be an advantage, until I actually used one...it is not, at all. Unless perhaps you can't tune and shoot a bow properly and well.
Click to expand...
I am calling bullchit. My Dad can’t pull back his bow anymore and now uses a crossbow. With a rest aim like a gun, rangefinder and such, you are far more accurate at further distances. Had I had his crossbow in many situations, Unlike you, I am positive I would have harvested some of the wall hangers that haunted me in the past!

Like you, he would go back to hunting with a bow if he could.
 
LIK2HNT said:
We all need some entertainment!!
Wonder if I can get one of these, install a breach plug, and mount a HUGE scope on it.
That would be the ULTIMATE Utah road hunting muzzy set up. Heck, maybe I can hook up a computerized aiming system/ turret for it also!!!???????
View attachment 121244
Click to expand...

You know what the good thing is about someone using a LR setup from the road like this?

When they shoot a 175" deer out from underneath me that I put a stalk on for the last 1-1/2 hrs to get within 150 yds, by the time time he gets to it, he'll either find a gutpile or sawed off antlers tossed randomly inbthe bushes somewhere...

?
 
elkantlers said:
Aren't you the dude that last year...
Oh never mind.


Those in glass houses and such.
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Sorry that came across accusatory. Wrong time and place I didn’t think about it. @Bux n Dux i think has the same name as a fella that jumped on the side of my truck and hitched a ride back to his rig a few years ago while looking for a bull he’d made a bad shot on the day before.

I legit always wondered if he’d found it cause it was a truly special bull. Wasn’t sure if they are the same fella or not. I know he put his time in looking, just a bad deal.
 
berrysblaster said:
Sorry that came across accusatory. Wrong time and place I didn’t think about it. @Bux n Dux i think has the same name as a fella that jumped on the side of my truck and hitched a ride back to his rig a few years ago while looking for a bull he’d made a bad shot on the day before.

I legit always wondered if he’d found it cause it was a truly special bull. Wasn’t sure if they are the same fella or not. I know he put his time in looking, just a bad deal.
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Not me…

I’m still trying to figure out how “poaching” a bear 11 years ago had anything to do with “practicing shooting and tracking skills”… pretty poor attempt at a public flaming, gym boi.
 
roadrunner said:
You know what the good thing is about someone using a LR setup from the road like this?

When they shoot a 175" deer out from underneath me that I put a stalk on for the last 1-1/2 hrs to get within 150 yds, by the time time he gets to it, he'll either find a gutpile or sawed off antlers tossed randomly inbthe bushes somewhere...

?
Click to expand...
Lol, we all know you aren’t that tough in real life. Thanks for the laughs RR
 
Dryfly said:
I disagree with your point about crossbows. I am a life long (now old) bow hunter. I had and used a COR for a couple years because of serious back injuries. I went back to my bow asap, against my Dr.s advice and I still use it.
I had a $2000. Tenpoint crossbow as it had a built in cocker, otherwise I couldn't have cocked the damn thing. It sucks beyond belief to lug around a crossbow. I carry my bow in a finger or two and don't even notice it. I can shoot a bow further and much faster than the crossbow. It was a decided and notable disadvantage for me.
Then again I spent many years practing with a bow year round...lots, and always with broadhead tipped arrows (it matters and VPAs can't be beat). I can shoot accurately out to 100 yards and do often. I do not shoot at game at that distance, but it makes those 50 yard shots very easy gimmes. Never even tried to shoot the crossbow that far. I too thought they would be an advantage, until I actually used one...it is not, at all. Unless perhaps you can't tune and shoot a bow properly and well.
Click to expand...

You should have just given up bowhunting until you could draw a bow again.

You'll never change my opinion about crossbows. EVER. They are the root of evil for bowhunting seasons.

I know 50 guys who would never "bowhunt" if they had to put up their 100 yard raven crossbow and hunt with a real bow.
 
Mallardsx2 said:
You should have just given up bowhunting until you could draw a bow again.

You'll never change my opinion about crossbows. EVER. They are the root of evil for bowhunting seasons.

I know 50 guys who would never "bowhunt" if they had to put up their 100 yard raven crossbow and hunt with a real bow.
Click to expand...
I thought compound bows were the root of all evil for bowhunting?
 
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