Do They Stand a Chance?

[cannonball]

It is a no wonder our game (especially deer) has smaller racks. Better spotting scopes, flatter shooting guns and bows (the ML and Bows have lost their primitive appeal) Goggle Earth, hunting maps and all kinds of professional hunting information. It seems there are thousands of professional guides, cameras at waterholes (can't even pick your nose at the water). Now let's get into the ATV's (no - that's not good enough let's go to a RZR - four eyes are better than two). Now on the the predators - more bear - more cougars (one cougar was killed at the game farm in the valley at Aurora trying to find a meal). Can't hunt coyotes at night with a spotlight or the county sheriff will be along) - Wolfs looming in the future - the anti's always there. Here's the big one - a lot of officials out there trying to control what they don't even understand and only listen to the anti's because they are the most vocal. Right now I feel very helpless with our wildlife and our government. I'm to old to see the worst, I'm afraid, but my kids and grandkids are going to get the brunt of this.

Just an after thought - I used to believe that a person could write a letter and if enough thought as you do, it would be heard. But now, if you stand alone, your nothing or nearly so. Get with a group, a good group - one that has great influence and go for it. It's the only chance you have!

 

[BrowningRage]

I really appreciate your thread Cannonball. I do not know how old you are, but I am 29. The "Hay Day" of deer hunting was before my time, back when my dad was younger than I am now...
You make a lot of really good points. The dominant predator is the sportsman and we have become very efficient at harvesting deer. Management helps to curb our efficiency, but too many regulations makes us feel restricted and less free. The "other" predators are growing in numbers, and we need much less restrictive management on them- much less restrictive.
I am still young enough that I have been able to hunt different areas over the years across my home state of Utah. A few years ago, after a few very unsuccessful years, my family was able to find an area that has deer, nice deer, and not too much pressure from the public, but enough to keep the deer moving around. To me it feels like heaven. I scouted it, and took a chance on the long trip and it has paid off. To me it is "my" stomping ground.
I would suggest your family spend time in areas that you have never hunted, in order to find a new "stomping ground" for your posterity to enjoy.
We all know that the writing is on the wall, hunting will never be what it used to. All we can do is follow your after thought and hope and pray.


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[dillon]

I agree with you post for the most part. I am only 23, but I hunt as much and as hard as anyone. I have learned something that humans learned long ago, it is called walking. I just drive my honda civic to where I want the adventure to begin, I strap on my hunting pack, grab my bow, a bite of food and a water bottle, a set of $20 binos and off I go into the roadless areas. In southern Utah where I generally hunt even though it is a 5 hour drive from Logan where I am going to school, I have lots of options where there are no roads thanks to the recent decisions by the government. I don't even own a 4wheeler, and I love to hike.

I see and listen to guys all the time complain about not seeing any wildlife and I just laugh. I see lots of game. In fact I generally will pass up 10-30 bucks within archery range before I take one each year.

I agree that the game of hunting has been altered, but with change comes a new generation. The current generation is lazy, and drive around in circle inhaling the dust from the truck a 100 meters down the road.

As for trail cameras, mine are busted up and I have yet to ask the wife if I can get some new ones. I love them, and they make scouting a pleasure. Do you have one? If not buy one and see how you like it.

I refuse to complain about law enforcement because I may be in law enforcement someday, and I think that they are doing really good considering how much they make and how much the public despises them. It takes a lot of effort to be a game officer, and that is the truth. I am studying to be a wildlife biologist, and I listen more than you think just like the guys who have the job I want. You can not make everyone happy at once, it is impossible.

Utah is doing great with there elk, not as great with their deer, and the others species are thriving.

I need to go back to school,

Dillon

 

[theox]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-22-10 AT 05:17PM (MST)[p]there are still big bucks out there you just have to work a bit harder. i see good bucks every year i just cant ever get the arrow in them.i always get out smarted(they are big for a reason!). trail cameras are great imo i never have a lot of success but its nice to be able to at least check the water hole for the big boys.dont get me wrong id much rather be there in person everyday scouting but its not feesable with gas prices skyrocketing and work being hard to find.

 

[fatrooster]

cannonball, you are 100% right. fatrooster.

 

[cannonball]

Dillon and Therox, I understand what you're saying and agree to the extent of that 10% I could call the "extreme hunter". Those are the scouters and those who spend a lot of time in the field. The ones who usually always find the game. Some even have a bigger hunting budget than their annual income.

But then there are the other 90% of hunters - the weekend hunter, if you will, they are the ones who may keep 10% extreme hunters alive. When they are gone, so is the clout for wildlife. The urban mentality sets in, the wolves and cougars are the friends, hunters are the enemies. I'm here to tell you if there aren't some easy animals to shoot, not just the ones where a person needs to put a backpack on and spend a week in the backcountry your hunt will be gone forever.

Yes, Dillon the elk are doing just fine, but the deer are not and in my estimation a lot has to do with management. I know that a lot of the game management people are doing a good job, but a lot are not and it seems as if they have closed their eyes or even more their ears. Most have high management positions and tell the others what to do and how to think. I would venture to say that the sportsmen feel the pulse of the wildlife more than DWR and that's where the rub comes. That's why I say join a group that can keep the pressure on to make sure they do their jobs. Good luck Dillon in your quest, they really need some good people in deer management. They really have done a pretty job in most of the other species and yes they (dwr) cannot satisfy everybody, but all sportsmen are not dummies to be categorized as such.

 

[Avsman]

Its all about to change, and Its up to all of us, If the American people are finally sick and tired of all the BS the Government is shoving down our throats, you will see in 2012 vote every incumbent out, that will send a loud enough message for a good start, Second don't be ashamed of how you feel especially when you feel so passionately about it such as all of us do about wildlife, I know the RMEF didn't step up to the plate before the wolves were introduced but I think we finally have a president thats going to do everything in the organizations power to begin to control the problem, Amendment 14 CO state constitution no leg hold traps they are going to have to overturn this someday because there are going to be so many predators in towns and citys and you know they are not going to let you shoot them so I see trapping comming back, COs sage grouse is on the verge of becomming endangered well no shet start controling the predators and we will have more sage grouse.

PRAY FOR OBAMA PSALMS 109:8 "LET HIS DAYS BE FEW, AND LET ANOTHER TAKE HIS OFFICE"





Windage and elevation pilgrim windage and elevation

 

[Tomichi]

Cannon Ball, Your right, I'll throw a few more in. Gunnison Basin Colorado Specific.
Invasive non native plants and grasses. Cheat grass, say good bye to what winter range we have left.
Vegetation disease sudden aspen death. Has me spooked.
Habitat loss and fragmentation Houses, roads nocturnal traffic on our HWYs splat.

Folks need to remember this entire ?Hunting industry? we now have is pretty short lived in a historic
Time frame. It was 1974 before COLO broke the 100,000 elk license number. Tell me how many of you killed an elk or know someone who did in the 1950?s??? 1960?s?? 1970?s see my point.
Those of you who have kids and grand kids be ready to answer the how did you let this happen question.

Things are bad , and they are getting worse? No they don't have a chance..
Your gear list is good, GPS, Radios, GPS with a radio, quads, and shooting sticks on and on? For me the biggest improvement is AIR BOB SOLES on my packs!
Avsman, Sage grouse are beyond the ?Verge? in this valley THEY ARE endangered and have been for 20 years. Never believe an avian biologist who has never seen a sage grouse flock over 100 head?
I have seen 800 in a flock in my hay meadow. Last year we had 7?.. I better shut up and work.

 

[Magicman]

In my area (Whitetail) I see more and larger deer now than I did in years past. It's about control. Not animal control....self control.

Our legal limit is 3 bucks per year. We limit each hunter to one buck, and if he's not a mature buck, the limit is zero. Shooting a small buck and throwing his antlers in the back of the garage makes no sense. No one is that hungry.

Folks pay dues and/or buy high priced non-res license and feel like they HAVE to kill something to justify the cost. Bull. Eat "tag soup" and be thankful that you were able to hunt.

BTW....I'm 66.

 

[justr_86]

Utah is running out of winter range very fast! More importantly QUALITY winter range is in short supply. There's houses creeping farther into it and deer proof fences covering another very large portion. We have a lot of real estate, just not much where it is really needed.

NO GUTS, NO STORY!!

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

Magicman, I couldn't agree more! While our hunting equipment has really gotten efficient the hunter behind the equipment hasn't changed. The 10% you guys talk about is about right and I think the vast majority of the hunters don't take that $800 rifle out of the safe until the week before the hunt. Work schedules and family demands are the things that pull us away from the mountains and I believe they are the compensator for high tech equipment. Also, you can't control buck fever!!! I guess what I'm trying to say is the biggest reason for the downturn of our deer hunting is management followed my the "self control" issue. That being said, I don't believe that restricting the youth on mature bucks is right either. They need to get their hands bloody a few times before showing some self control on younger deer. JMO for what it's worth.


It's always an adventure!!!