I would just like to drop a few words on this subject. We here in Utah hunting big game must accept a few things/trends going on with hunting in this state. There are 3 types of hunters hunting big game in this state. 1) The privileged...The hunter who can purchase a 501C3 tag for 10K-200K. Hunt when ever or where ever they choose because they have the money to be able to do so. 2) The Fortunate...I see these hunters as those affilated with CWMU's in some way. The operator, the operators friends or family members on the land owner. These individuals get to hunt prime land every year. Harvest nice Bucks and Bulls every year. They also get to hunt outside the season dates set for the Regular guy. They get to hunt outside the rules and regulatuons set for public land hunters. 3) the Regular guy...This hunter cant purchase 501C3 tags due to lack of funds!! Nor is he a CWMU operator, a friend of a operator, nor a land owner's family member being taken care of!! This hunter must purchase regular season tags, and hunt on public lands, harvest 2 pt. bucks and spike Bulls often. I feel if this type of treatment is continious in big game hunting here in Utah, nothing will ever change. If all hunters had to hunt by the same rules and season dates, maybe, just maybe, we would all come togeather for some improvements/decision makeing that would effect everyone. There are some great CWMU operators out their, they treat the State hunters very well, no different than a paid hunter. BUT!! There are some who treat the State hunters poorly. At times, State hunters are just a waste of time and takeing up a tag they could sell for money. This is unfortunate!! I dont think very many CWMU operator's are very concerned with season hunt dates and tag's allocated to the public, when they themselves get such loosely set dates by the Division. But, this is what hunting in Utah has evolved into, the HAVE'S and HAVE NOT'S. Far to much money being made and exchangeing hands in a sport that was once a family tradition!! I dont think the "PRIVILEGED" and "FORTUNATE" care one bit about the "REGULAR GUY". This is basically why there are so many upset hunters on this site. The Regular Guy is just tired of being walked on, no one ever really careing about his or her opinion, or concerns, or ideas of improvement for hunting. Until we get the influence of money out of the picture, nothing changes!! This is just my thoughts. Yes, I am just a Regular guy, hunting with Regular tags, on public lands. Who, cant afford to purchase CWMU tags, takeing the bread crumbs given to me by those in power.
CWMU season dates
- Thread starter buckshot
- Start date
E
eyecrazy
Guest
all this land that is now cwmu used to be go and hunt if you asked to hunt it. granted there was a few that would not let you hunt but the majority would. there was alot of land that was never posted or fenced that you could hunt. the land owners didn't care if you hunted it. but now all is locked up even our public land that is surounded by a cwmu we can no longer hunt all the program does is tie up land for high dollar hunter's and make it
so public all have to hunt the same spot over crowding. then if you hunt the edge of a cwmu like deseret they leave notes on your truck saying that you are unethical but they will not let you on there property to retrieve a legaly killed animal. then they slander your name for hunting legaley just because you are killing there animals.
they run sheep on public land that eat or trampel everything they leave them in spots to deter the animals from leaving the cwmu or to stop people from hunting place's
for me it has become a challange to see how many animals I can take legaly from them I help anyone I can kill deseret elk and for that they try to give me a bad name so far I have taken or help other people in the some of 27 elk in ten years off of deseret.
so public all have to hunt the same spot over crowding. then if you hunt the edge of a cwmu like deseret they leave notes on your truck saying that you are unethical but they will not let you on there property to retrieve a legaly killed animal. then they slander your name for hunting legaley just because you are killing there animals.
they run sheep on public land that eat or trampel everything they leave them in spots to deter the animals from leaving the cwmu or to stop people from hunting place's
for me it has become a challange to see how many animals I can take legaly from them I help anyone I can kill deseret elk and for that they try to give me a bad name so far I have taken or help other people in the some of 27 elk in ten years off of deseret.
L
littlecaseof200itus
Guest
HJB,
Get you facts straight buddy. The Wasatch Unit many, many times larger than Deseret issued some 20 bull moose tags for 2012 and they have decreased most every year over the course of the past several years. There has been very little decrease on the CWMU's when the puclic tags on most units are seeing a decrease. Good luck to you on the upcoming draw.
Get you facts straight buddy. The Wasatch Unit many, many times larger than Deseret issued some 20 bull moose tags for 2012 and they have decreased most every year over the course of the past several years. There has been very little decrease on the CWMU's when the puclic tags on most units are seeing a decrease. Good luck to you on the upcoming draw.
>all this land that is now
>cwmu used to be go
>and hunt if you asked
>to hunt it. granted there
>was a few that would
>not let you hunt but
>the majority would. there was
>alot of land that was
>never posted or fenced that
>you could hunt. the land
>owners didn't care if you
>hunted it. but now all
>is locked up even our
>public land that is surounded
>by a cwmu we can
>no longer hunt all the
>program does is tie up
>land for high dollar hunter's
>and make it
>so public all have to hunt
>the same spot over crowding.
>then if you hunt the
>edge of a cwmu like
>deseret they leave notes on
>your truck saying that you
>are unethical but they will
>not let you on there
>property to retrieve a legaly
>killed animal. then they slander
>your name for hunting legaley
>just because you are killing
>there animals.
>they run sheep on public land
>that eat or trampel everything
>they leave them in spots
>to deter the animals from
>leaving the cwmu or to
>stop people from hunting place's
>
>for me it has become a
>challange to see how many
>animals I can take legaly
>from them I help anyone
>I can kill deseret elk
>and for that they try
>to give me a bad
>name so far I have
>taken or help other people
>in the some of 27
>elk in ten years off
>of deseret.
!!!!!+++++ I like your way of thinking friend. Good luck to you!!
>cwmu used to be go
>and hunt if you asked
>to hunt it. granted there
>was a few that would
>not let you hunt but
>the majority would. there was
>alot of land that was
>never posted or fenced that
>you could hunt. the land
>owners didn't care if you
>hunted it. but now all
>is locked up even our
>public land that is surounded
>by a cwmu we can
>no longer hunt all the
>program does is tie up
>land for high dollar hunter's
>and make it
>so public all have to hunt
>the same spot over crowding.
>then if you hunt the
>edge of a cwmu like
>deseret they leave notes on
>your truck saying that you
>are unethical but they will
>not let you on there
>property to retrieve a legaly
>killed animal. then they slander
>your name for hunting legaley
>just because you are killing
>there animals.
>they run sheep on public land
>that eat or trampel everything
>they leave them in spots
>to deter the animals from
>leaving the cwmu or to
>stop people from hunting place's
>
>for me it has become a
>challange to see how many
>animals I can take legaly
>from them I help anyone
>I can kill deseret elk
>and for that they try
>to give me a bad
>name so far I have
>taken or help other people
>in the some of 27
>elk in ten years off
>of deseret.
!!!!!+++++ I like your way of thinking friend. Good luck to you!!
>HJB,
>
>Get you facts straight buddy.
>The Wasatch Unit many, many
>times larger than Deseret issued
>some 20 bull moose tags
>for 2012 and they have
>decreased most every year over
>the course of the past
>several years. There has
>been very little decrease on
>the CWMU's when the puclic
>tags on most units are
>seeing a decrease. Good
>luck to you on the
>upcoming draw.
Sorry FYI,....There has been a big decrease on CWMU Moose permits the last two years. Bulls and Cows!! Actually there was zero cow Moose permits in the state of Utah last year. It is a shame it took the DWR so long to acknowledge the drop off in Moose. I was told they take the average of the last three years age class harvested, to set tag limits. They finally figured out what many public land hunters already knew. I have called many CWMU operators over the last 3 years in order to find a quality Moose hunt. Many operators said they would not even hunt there own properties for Moose. The quality was just not there any more. They said tranplanting them to other states, brain worn disease, and wolf's had brought their numbers down. I normally would not even hunt a CWMU, I prefer the public land/L.Entry tags for my hunts. But, the area I put in for normally has droped off so drastically(Unita North Slope). I just hope the wolf's...that are supposed to not be on the North Slope...dont wipe them out like Wyoming, around Yellowstone. I had to entertain other options. Now, I am just setting on points, hopeing the reduction in tags will improve quality in some unit.
>
>Get you facts straight buddy.
>The Wasatch Unit many, many
>times larger than Deseret issued
>some 20 bull moose tags
>for 2012 and they have
>decreased most every year over
>the course of the past
>several years. There has
>been very little decrease on
>the CWMU's when the puclic
>tags on most units are
>seeing a decrease. Good
>luck to you on the
>upcoming draw.
Sorry FYI,....There has been a big decrease on CWMU Moose permits the last two years. Bulls and Cows!! Actually there was zero cow Moose permits in the state of Utah last year. It is a shame it took the DWR so long to acknowledge the drop off in Moose. I was told they take the average of the last three years age class harvested, to set tag limits. They finally figured out what many public land hunters already knew. I have called many CWMU operators over the last 3 years in order to find a quality Moose hunt. Many operators said they would not even hunt there own properties for Moose. The quality was just not there any more. They said tranplanting them to other states, brain worn disease, and wolf's had brought their numbers down. I normally would not even hunt a CWMU, I prefer the public land/L.Entry tags for my hunts. But, the area I put in for normally has droped off so drastically(Unita North Slope). I just hope the wolf's...that are supposed to not be on the North Slope...dont wipe them out like Wyoming, around Yellowstone. I had to entertain other options. Now, I am just setting on points, hopeing the reduction in tags will improve quality in some unit.
treedagain
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,771
GREED and landowner entitlement are the main keys to the down fall of this program....when you have convicted poachers and operators who SCREW the public and just move to another property as your poster children and add in our resident DB who puts every one down when they have a different opinion then them, plus the bandwagon jumpers hoping to brown nose there way into a tag or two...MONEY talks in UT and that will not change...and i don't need a PhD to understand that's the truth.
How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
F
Foxskinner
Guest
I understand a lot of what everyone is saying here. I know it is hard to fight the mighty dollar but what can we do about it? Here we have a state of thousands of hunters and maybe 100 or so CWMU operators. Why can't we do or say something to get a few changes? There is no way the program will ever go away, so we need to make some improvements. Some thoughts:
1 - Give a better public to private tag ratio?
2 - Make part of the season dates archery only?
3 - Get rid of the ridiculous November hunts?
4 - Set more regulations on creation or maintaining CWMU status like not allowing 20 property owners ban together to get the needed acreage?
5 - Forget the grandfathered-in crap where there are some 5,000 acre CWMU's with elk tags?
6 - Weed out the crappy CWMU operators by having standards or more closely looked at treatment of hunters - Hunter Satisfaction Surveys?
I'm sure there are many other things that could be mentioned too. The fact is, is that every CWMU has to renew every 3 years. If there is enough complaints or concerns towards one or all of them, maybe we can get a change here and there. I know I'm probably trying to use a garden hose to put out a house fire but if it is just 10 of us complaining about the system as a whole on this site then nothing will ever be done about it. Any thoughts?
1 - Give a better public to private tag ratio?
2 - Make part of the season dates archery only?
3 - Get rid of the ridiculous November hunts?
4 - Set more regulations on creation or maintaining CWMU status like not allowing 20 property owners ban together to get the needed acreage?
5 - Forget the grandfathered-in crap where there are some 5,000 acre CWMU's with elk tags?
6 - Weed out the crappy CWMU operators by having standards or more closely looked at treatment of hunters - Hunter Satisfaction Surveys?
I'm sure there are many other things that could be mentioned too. The fact is, is that every CWMU has to renew every 3 years. If there is enough complaints or concerns towards one or all of them, maybe we can get a change here and there. I know I'm probably trying to use a garden hose to put out a house fire but if it is just 10 of us complaining about the system as a whole on this site then nothing will ever be done about it. Any thoughts?
E
eyecrazy
Guest
the cwmu operatores are also the cwmu board members that make the rules for the cwmu's you can look it up for your self also 3 or 4 of the wildlife board members are affiliated or run cwmu's what a joke. screwing the public.
treedagain
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,771
one hand feed the other....just a circle of friends putting money in each others pocket...i think part of the condition of there continued acceptance in the program is to make them provide finacial documents on the amount of money they are making off our wildlife, STATE owned wildlife. i am sure it would shock more than a few people, might even make some of the landowners that have sold the hunting rights to pause and rethink themselves...$$$$$$, might put some guys out of business in cache valley down to monticello and beyond
How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
E
elkun
Guest
birdman, what do get out of the cwmu,?
E
elkun
Guest
bird man, good for you, but be carefull what you ask for, the cwmus are way out hand, if the truth be know,,,,,
Elkun, Some people like CWMU's and some do not. Makes no difference to me. They are there for a reason and the DWR thinks it is a positive reason. Some people think that it is a crime. Whatever people believe, there is no need to make up stuff that is not true to prove a point. It is true that CWMU's are organized and make up things that they want. I guess kind of like a union. It is also true that every year the DWR decides in their opinion weather or not a CWMU is following the rules put out by the DWR. If they are not, then the DWR recommends that they not be renewed. Happens every year and open to the public. The Wildlife Board then listens to the DWR and decides on what should happen. There is always discussion if someone does not like what the DWR recommends. Then the Board makes up their mind. People should make an effort to attend the RAC's and WLB when possible to understand what is going on.
stillhunterman
Active Member
- Messages
- 608
I don't much care for some of the things involved with the CWMU program, it leaves much to be desired. I particularly don't like the direction it has been taking the monetization of hunting. That being said, I do agree with what Birdman says about attending the RAC's and WB meetings when this program comes up for review. Although it's hard to get a take on exactly where the UDWR stands (I'm not so sure they think it's a positive thing), it's easy to see the WB does approve of the program via their past voting record, and that is the entity that really matters, not the DWR.
I understand many (too many) folks have given up on the RAC process because they feel their concerns are not being voiced down the line, and to a great extent, I would agree. The problem therein is the 'number' of folks who attend and voice their opinions. Unless the subjects at the various RAC's are highly contentious, few, often if any, hunters show up. I would bet that should large numbers of concerned hunters were to attend and voice their displeasure of this program, it would be heard by the WB. I also agree that the politics and personal agenda's of some make the whole thing more than a bit disconcerting, but what other choice do we have? Go to the meetings and be heard.
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
I understand many (too many) folks have given up on the RAC process because they feel their concerns are not being voiced down the line, and to a great extent, I would agree. The problem therein is the 'number' of folks who attend and voice their opinions. Unless the subjects at the various RAC's are highly contentious, few, often if any, hunters show up. I would bet that should large numbers of concerned hunters were to attend and voice their displeasure of this program, it would be heard by the WB. I also agree that the politics and personal agenda's of some make the whole thing more than a bit disconcerting, but what other choice do we have? Go to the meetings and be heard.
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
E
elkun
Guest
birdman, stilhunterman,, i wish the wb would listen to reg hunters, but thats not how it works,and both of you know that,,,,,
E
eyecrazy
Guest
Ken Clegg 2005 President
3 C CWMU and CR Rep
630 Houtz Ave
Springville, UT. 84663
801-491-2014?801368-6056 Ash Jenkins
Hiawatha CWMU
419 E. 3300 S.
Salt Lake City, UT. 84115
801-487-3713
[email protected]
Todd Hinkins
Pagano CWMU SER Rep
PO BOX 75
Orangeville, UT. 84537
(435) 748-5304, (435) 748-5551 Gary Stringham
Little Red Creek CWMU
28924 W. Sr 35
Tabiona, UT. 84072
435-848-5326
[email protected]
Dave Freiss
Pocatello Valley NR Rep
4326 W/ Elk Rim Rd
South Jordan, Utah. 84095
801-598-8709?801 280-5082 David Kavanagh
Johnson Mt. Ranch CWMU SR Rep
2314 E. Woodchuck Cir
Sandy, UT. 84093
801 -944-8802 801 573 7844
Wade Heaton
Alton CWMU
P.O. Box 100013
Alton, UT. 84710
435-648-2029
[email protected]
these are the people the make the rules for the cwmu program
I wish that I could make up my own rules.
todd black were do you hunt every year? i bet it is not public ground
3 C CWMU and CR Rep
630 Houtz Ave
Springville, UT. 84663
801-491-2014?801368-6056 Ash Jenkins
Hiawatha CWMU
419 E. 3300 S.
Salt Lake City, UT. 84115
801-487-3713
[email protected]
Todd Hinkins
Pagano CWMU SER Rep
PO BOX 75
Orangeville, UT. 84537
(435) 748-5304, (435) 748-5551 Gary Stringham
Little Red Creek CWMU
28924 W. Sr 35
Tabiona, UT. 84072
435-848-5326
[email protected]
Dave Freiss
Pocatello Valley NR Rep
4326 W/ Elk Rim Rd
South Jordan, Utah. 84095
801-598-8709?801 280-5082 David Kavanagh
Johnson Mt. Ranch CWMU SR Rep
2314 E. Woodchuck Cir
Sandy, UT. 84093
801 -944-8802 801 573 7844
Wade Heaton
Alton CWMU
P.O. Box 100013
Alton, UT. 84710
435-648-2029
[email protected]
these are the people the make the rules for the cwmu program
I wish that I could make up my own rules.
todd black were do you hunt every year? i bet it is not public ground
arrowone4me
Active Member
- Messages
- 528
eyecrazy - He actually does hunt public as I have met him on ocassions while archery hunting in the NF.
E
elkun
Guest
birdman, ive wasted enough time in rac meetings. over 15, when youve done 5 youll see what i mean, the head of dwr, once told me they are just a place to let the reg sportsmen vent, not much more,, with to days sfw power just look at what they propose, thats what will happen' [ good or bad)
