CR RAC MEETING
- Thread starter slamdunk
- Start date
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,298
Just a question not an opinion or suggestion.
Two years ago guys were complaining about Utahs game managment, but most guys were for the most part content with there deer hunt not so much on Success but overall experience. Most units hunters were seeing fare amount of bucks.
What happened to utah in two years?
Two years ago most guys that hunted Colorado praised the game management of Colorado and now most threads on this site are saying how terrible the deer hunt is this year in Colorado including the famous Gunnison basin unit.
What has happened in two years to Colorado?
Wyoming for the most part same storyline maybe to a lesser dagree but more complaining now on Monster Muley than two years ago.
What happened in two years to Wyoming?
Idaho not so much praised for the game managment but two years ago guys praised the deer hunting in Idaho.
What happened to Idaho?
New Mexico mixed opinions two years ago, probably more complaining this year.
Arizona for the most part guys seem to be pretty happy with the deer hunting.
Nevada seems like things have been going pretty good not much complaining about there game management. Most guys that go hunting deer report Success not always about filling there tags but the overall enjoyment of the hunt.
In Utah the deer managment has been the same sense the DWR started the smaller hunt units and I say hunt units because we all know the hunt units and herd management units are different.
I personally do not know alot about other states but for the most part I do not know of any really big changes in how any of these states manage Muley Deer. Colorado is having some changes coming next year but not so much the last two years.
I might be wrong correct me if I am.
It seems to me several states has had a great lost of deer over the last two years.
The Question I have is Why so many states seem to be going the same direction?
Two years ago guys were complaining about Utahs game managment, but most guys were for the most part content with there deer hunt not so much on Success but overall experience. Most units hunters were seeing fare amount of bucks.
What happened to utah in two years?
Two years ago most guys that hunted Colorado praised the game management of Colorado and now most threads on this site are saying how terrible the deer hunt is this year in Colorado including the famous Gunnison basin unit.
What has happened in two years to Colorado?
Wyoming for the most part same storyline maybe to a lesser dagree but more complaining now on Monster Muley than two years ago.
What happened in two years to Wyoming?
Idaho not so much praised for the game managment but two years ago guys praised the deer hunting in Idaho.
What happened to Idaho?
New Mexico mixed opinions two years ago, probably more complaining this year.
Arizona for the most part guys seem to be pretty happy with the deer hunting.
Nevada seems like things have been going pretty good not much complaining about there game management. Most guys that go hunting deer report Success not always about filling there tags but the overall enjoyment of the hunt.
In Utah the deer managment has been the same sense the DWR started the smaller hunt units and I say hunt units because we all know the hunt units and herd management units are different.
I personally do not know alot about other states but for the most part I do not know of any really big changes in how any of these states manage Muley Deer. Colorado is having some changes coming next year but not so much the last two years.
I might be wrong correct me if I am.
It seems to me several states has had a great lost of deer over the last two years.
The Question I have is Why so many states seem to be going the same direction?
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,416
Got couple thoughts
1. Social media. I haven't seen any of the "hardcore hunters" that weren't posing in front of some big deer yapping about how hard core they are with 10 hashtags to sponsors.
2. Expectations. It was no secret Utah had a good winter. You couldnt swing a dead cat without hearing, or reading about the explosive growth, the records that will fall, etc, etc, etc.
3. Location jumping. I think there are more and more guys who move a lot, hunt different units so their historical perspective isn't long.
I can't say we are in some golden age, but I've seen worse as well
Can you imagine what it would have been like after the big winters in the 80's and early 90's if there had be IG, and you tube?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
1. Social media. I haven't seen any of the "hardcore hunters" that weren't posing in front of some big deer yapping about how hard core they are with 10 hashtags to sponsors.
2. Expectations. It was no secret Utah had a good winter. You couldnt swing a dead cat without hearing, or reading about the explosive growth, the records that will fall, etc, etc, etc.
3. Location jumping. I think there are more and more guys who move a lot, hunt different units so their historical perspective isn't long.
I can't say we are in some golden age, but I've seen worse as well
Can you imagine what it would have been like after the big winters in the 80's and early 90's if there had be IG, and you tube?
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,122
>I hadn't been following along on
>this one. I'm glad to
>hear that elkfromabove and I
>are personally responsible for the
>decline in mule deer in
>the state of Utah.
>
>Solid logic muley73. Very solid. I
>can't even debate that.
Sorry Vanilla, but you'll have to take the blame alone. At this time 30 years ago, I was still unpacking the U-Haul from our move from Oxnard, California. We had too much stuff for the two rooms at the old Cedar Crest Motel in Cedar City (where the Smith's is now) and I had to rent a storage unit for the rest of it. It took me about a week to unload because I knew NOBODY here, the snow was about 3 feet deep and I was sick at the time and my wife wanted us moved in by Thanksgiving.
Besides, I didn't get involved in wildlife management until I joined United Wildlife Cooperative about 7 years ago, when I found out that I might not be able to archery hunt deer here at home and/or South Willow Canyon and/or Trial Lake.
So, it's all on you, buddy!
>this one. I'm glad to
>hear that elkfromabove and I
>are personally responsible for the
>decline in mule deer in
>the state of Utah.
>
>Solid logic muley73. Very solid. I
>can't even debate that.
Sorry Vanilla, but you'll have to take the blame alone. At this time 30 years ago, I was still unpacking the U-Haul from our move from Oxnard, California. We had too much stuff for the two rooms at the old Cedar Crest Motel in Cedar City (where the Smith's is now) and I had to rent a storage unit for the rest of it. It took me about a week to unload because I knew NOBODY here, the snow was about 3 feet deep and I was sick at the time and my wife wanted us moved in by Thanksgiving.
Besides, I didn't get involved in wildlife management until I joined United Wildlife Cooperative about 7 years ago, when I found out that I might not be able to archery hunt deer here at home and/or South Willow Canyon and/or Trial Lake.
So, it's all on you, buddy!
utfireman
Active Member
- Messages
- 339
My recommendations that I'm sure will chap a few rear ends.....
1. Get rid of the idea of general season. Everything is a draw now, and the points should be one! Pick your poison! If you want to hunt a better unit and willing to wait that's what you get. If you want to hunt every year, you can! This gives the two main type of hunters the option to fill their needs. This will also cut down the amount of max points over time.
2. If implementing the above idea you get rid of the waiting period.
3. Mandatory reporting after hunt. We all use the internet to get put in for a tag, we all can log back in to report the hunt.
4. Every unit gets counted by the DWR each year.
5. Permit numbers given before the draw entry deadline. There is no reason why we put in for the hunts before tag allocations are approved.
6. Slamdunk and elk assassin in my camp each year. Life is to short not to have a good time!
1. Get rid of the idea of general season. Everything is a draw now, and the points should be one! Pick your poison! If you want to hunt a better unit and willing to wait that's what you get. If you want to hunt every year, you can! This gives the two main type of hunters the option to fill their needs. This will also cut down the amount of max points over time.
2. If implementing the above idea you get rid of the waiting period.
3. Mandatory reporting after hunt. We all use the internet to get put in for a tag, we all can log back in to report the hunt.
4. Every unit gets counted by the DWR each year.
5. Permit numbers given before the draw entry deadline. There is no reason why we put in for the hunts before tag allocations are approved.
6. Slamdunk and elk assassin in my camp each year. Life is to short not to have a good time!
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,824
>My recommendations that I'm sure will
>chap a few rear ends.....
>
>
>1. Get rid of the idea
>of general season. Everything is
>a draw now, and the
>points should be one! Pick
>your poison! If you want
>to hunt a better unit
>and willing to wait that's
>what you get. If you
>want to hunt every year,
>you can! This gives the
>two main type of hunters
>the option to fill their
>needs. This will also cut
>down the amount of max
>points over time.
>
>2. If implementing the above idea
>you get rid of the
>waiting period.
>
>3. Mandatory reporting after hunt. We
>all use the internet to
>get put in for a
>tag, we all can log
>back in to report the
>hunt.
>
>4. Every unit gets counted by
>the DWR each year.
>
>5. Permit numbers given before the
>draw entry deadline. There is
>no reason why we put
>in for the hunts before
>tag allocations are approved.
>
>6. Slamdunk and elk assassin
>in my camp each year.
>Life is to short not
>to have a good time!
>
I'll make a motion for at least #6!?
>chap a few rear ends.....
>
>
>1. Get rid of the idea
>of general season. Everything is
>a draw now, and the
>points should be one! Pick
>your poison! If you want
>to hunt a better unit
>and willing to wait that's
>what you get. If you
>want to hunt every year,
>you can! This gives the
>two main type of hunters
>the option to fill their
>needs. This will also cut
>down the amount of max
>points over time.
>
>2. If implementing the above idea
>you get rid of the
>waiting period.
>
>3. Mandatory reporting after hunt. We
>all use the internet to
>get put in for a
>tag, we all can log
>back in to report the
>hunt.
>
>4. Every unit gets counted by
>the DWR each year.
>
>5. Permit numbers given before the
>draw entry deadline. There is
>no reason why we put
>in for the hunts before
>tag allocations are approved.
>
>6. Slamdunk and elk assassin
>in my camp each year.
>Life is to short not
>to have a good time!
>
I'll make a motion for at least #6!?
cannonball
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,286
>My recommendations that I'm sure will
>chap a few rear ends.....
>
>
>1. Get rid of the idea
>of general season. Everything is
>a draw now, and the
>points should be one! Pick
>your poison! If you want
>to hunt a better unit
>and willing to wait that's
>what you get. If you
>want to hunt every year,
>you can! This gives the
>two main type of hunters
>the option to fill their
>needs. This will also cut
>down the amount of max
>points over time.
>
>2. If implementing the above idea
>you get rid of the
>waiting period.
>
>3. Mandatory reporting after hunt. We
>all use the internet to
>get put in for a
>tag, we all can log
>back in to report the
>hunt.
>
>4. Every unit gets counted by
>the DWR each year.
>
>5. Permit numbers given before the
>draw entry deadline. There is
>no reason why we put
>in for the hunts before
>tag allocations are approved.
>
>6. Slamdunk and elk assassin
>in my camp each year.
>Life is to short not
>to have a good time!
>
Never happen!! It makes to much sense and to many greedy sportsmen. How would it be to hunt the Monroe every year or the Henrys or Pauns every (say) five years. Just a win-win. To bad it will never fly.
>chap a few rear ends.....
>
>
>1. Get rid of the idea
>of general season. Everything is
>a draw now, and the
>points should be one! Pick
>your poison! If you want
>to hunt a better unit
>and willing to wait that's
>what you get. If you
>want to hunt every year,
>you can! This gives the
>two main type of hunters
>the option to fill their
>needs. This will also cut
>down the amount of max
>points over time.
>
>2. If implementing the above idea
>you get rid of the
>waiting period.
>
>3. Mandatory reporting after hunt. We
>all use the internet to
>get put in for a
>tag, we all can log
>back in to report the
>hunt.
>
>4. Every unit gets counted by
>the DWR each year.
>
>5. Permit numbers given before the
>draw entry deadline. There is
>no reason why we put
>in for the hunts before
>tag allocations are approved.
>
>6. Slamdunk and elk assassin
>in my camp each year.
>Life is to short not
>to have a good time!
>
Never happen!! It makes to much sense and to many greedy sportsmen. How would it be to hunt the Monroe every year or the Henrys or Pauns every (say) five years. Just a win-win. To bad it will never fly.
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 883
The DWR said that 408 LE tags got turned back in.
So what if they take those tags that get turned back in every year and put them on a leftover list.
you could actually buy it over the counter,of course you won't be able to apply for a species that you are already on a waiting period and if you get one of those you will be automatically be put on a waiting period.
That means everyone would have a chance at getting a tag it's just a thought...
So what if they take those tags that get turned back in every year and put them on a leftover list.
you could actually buy it over the counter,of course you won't be able to apply for a species that you are already on a waiting period and if you get one of those you will be automatically be put on a waiting period.
That means everyone would have a chance at getting a tag it's just a thought...
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,122
LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-19 AT 01:38PM (MST)[p]>I never understood the theory on
>an APR that some 2
>points get shot by mistake
>and we lose them to
>waste.
>
>What would that percentage be, like
>5% at most?
>
How about 35% or more?
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/con...ive/MULEDEER_ANTLERPOINTREGS_REVIE0006790.pdf
Page 3
(Read the rest of it, while you're at it!)
>an APR that some 2
>points get shot by mistake
>and we lose them to
>waste.
>
>What would that percentage be, like
>5% at most?
>
How about 35% or more?
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/con...ive/MULEDEER_ANTLERPOINTREGS_REVIE0006790.pdf
Page 3
(Read the rest of it, while you're at it!)
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,500
I'm okay with that elkslayer. 408 LE tags turned in plus the 500+ they give to the expo and conservation organizations for auctions.
You think 900+ more tags EVERY year in the public draw putting people on waiting periods will help? Seems like a very easy "low hanging fruit" way to begin addressing our issues.
Will it solve everything? Probably not. But this is a great start. And this is just for LE hunts, not even talking about the general season.
You think 900+ more tags EVERY year in the public draw putting people on waiting periods will help? Seems like a very easy "low hanging fruit" way to begin addressing our issues.
Will it solve everything? Probably not. But this is a great start. And this is just for LE hunts, not even talking about the general season.
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 883
LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-19 AT 03:41PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-19 AT 03:33?PM (MST)
LE points creep is a lost cause it should of been addressed 20 years ago it's to far gone and it's only going to get worst the only way to fix it is issue more tags
LE ELK 51,680 hunters apply and only 2,705 draw out
LE DEER 37,622 hunters apply and only 1,471 draw out
408 more tags won't change nothing but if hunters are going to turn their tags in every year then send them to the public on a first come first serve bases.
I'm pretty sure that 50 of those tags didn't go anywhere from what the DWR said
As far as The EXPO tags well they came out of are quota and they should have the same rules when you apply for them in the Draw
for example if your on a waiting period for deer you should not be allowed to put in for deer or any other species And if you draw a EXPO tag you should automatically should be put on a waiting period and if you draw and you have points for that species you loose them that would help the point creep very little but it would help
LE points creep is a lost cause it should of been addressed 20 years ago it's to far gone and it's only going to get worst the only way to fix it is issue more tags
LE ELK 51,680 hunters apply and only 2,705 draw out
LE DEER 37,622 hunters apply and only 1,471 draw out
408 more tags won't change nothing but if hunters are going to turn their tags in every year then send them to the public on a first come first serve bases.
I'm pretty sure that 50 of those tags didn't go anywhere from what the DWR said
As far as The EXPO tags well they came out of are quota and they should have the same rules when you apply for them in the Draw
for example if your on a waiting period for deer you should not be allowed to put in for deer or any other species And if you draw a EXPO tag you should automatically should be put on a waiting period and if you draw and you have points for that species you loose them that would help the point creep very little but it would help
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
>My recommendations that I'm sure will
>chap a few rear ends.....
>
>
>1. Get rid of the idea
>of general season. Everything is
>a draw now, and the
>points should be one! Pick
>your poison! If you want
>to hunt a better unit
>and willing to wait that's
>what you get. If you
>want to hunt every year,
>you can! This gives the
>two main type of hunters
>the option to fill their
>needs. This will also cut
>down the amount of max
>points over time.
>
>2. If implementing the above idea
>you get rid of the
>waiting period.
>
>3. Mandatory reporting after hunt. We
>all use the internet to
>get put in for a
>tag, we all can log
>back in to report the
>hunt.
>
>4. Every unit gets counted by
>the DWR each year.
>
>5. Permit numbers given before the
>draw entry deadline. There is
>no reason why we put
>in for the hunts before
>tag allocations are approved.
>
>6. Slamdunk and elk assassin
>in my camp each year.
>Life is to short not
>to have a good time!
>
Ya!
We gotta start doing # 6 a little more often!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>chap a few rear ends.....
>
>
>1. Get rid of the idea
>of general season. Everything is
>a draw now, and the
>points should be one! Pick
>your poison! If you want
>to hunt a better unit
>and willing to wait that's
>what you get. If you
>want to hunt every year,
>you can! This gives the
>two main type of hunters
>the option to fill their
>needs. This will also cut
>down the amount of max
>points over time.
>
>2. If implementing the above idea
>you get rid of the
>waiting period.
>
>3. Mandatory reporting after hunt. We
>all use the internet to
>get put in for a
>tag, we all can log
>back in to report the
>hunt.
>
>4. Every unit gets counted by
>the DWR each year.
>
>5. Permit numbers given before the
>draw entry deadline. There is
>no reason why we put
>in for the hunts before
>tag allocations are approved.
>
>6. Slamdunk and elk assassin
>in my camp each year.
>Life is to short not
>to have a good time!
>
Ya!
We gotta start doing # 6 a little more often!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 883
LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-19 AT 04:47PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-19 AT 04:19?PM (MST)
General season points creep the way to fix that
1 season archery
1 season muzzleloader
2 season muzzleloader
1 season rifle
2 season rifle
let the archery hunt run it's normal 28 days
split the muzzleloader deer hunt up into two hunt 1st season 5 days and then start the second season for five days yeah you will get one extra day of hunting It's currently only 9 days
split the rifle deer up into two hunts 1st season five days and second season 5 days yeah you will get one extra day of hunting It's currently only 9 days as well
problem solved/I forgot add more tags to the deer we don't have
I was making a joke I was just adding more hunts for the hell of it we don't need anymore hunts just manage it better so we can issue more tags and that's the only way to help with point creep.
General season points creep the way to fix that
1 season archery
1 season muzzleloader
2 season muzzleloader
1 season rifle
2 season rifle
let the archery hunt run it's normal 28 days
split the muzzleloader deer hunt up into two hunt 1st season 5 days and then start the second season for five days yeah you will get one extra day of hunting It's currently only 9 days
split the rifle deer up into two hunts 1st season five days and second season 5 days yeah you will get one extra day of hunting It's currently only 9 days as well
problem solved/I forgot add more tags to the deer we don't have
I was making a joke I was just adding more hunts for the hell of it we don't need anymore hunts just manage it better so we can issue more tags and that's the only way to help with point creep.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,122
LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-19 AT 05:22PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-19
>AT 04:47?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-19
>AT 04:19?PM (MST)
>
>General season points creep the way
>to fix that
>
>1 season archery
>1 season muzzleloader
>2 season muzzleloader
>1 season rifle
>2 season rifle
>
>let the archery hunt run it's
>normal 28 days
>
>split the muzzleloader deer hunt up
>into two hunt 1st season
>5 days and then start
>the second season for five
>days yeah you will get
>one extra day of hunting
>It's currently only 9 days
>
>
>split the rifle deer up into
>two hunts 1st season five
>days and second season 5
>days yeah you will get
>one extra day of hunting
>It's currently only 9 days
>as well
>
>problem solved/I forgot add more tags
>to the deer we don't
>have
>
>I was making a joke I
>was just adding more hunts
>for the hell of it
>we don't need anymore hunts
>just manage it better so
>we can issue more tags
>and that's the only way
>to help with point creep.
>
Actually, it won't be a joke if we end up adding antler point restrictions to hunts while keeping the same number of tags as some on this forum have proposed. We'd be issuing tags for legal deer we don't have.
>AT 04:47?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-19
>AT 04:19?PM (MST)
>
>General season points creep the way
>to fix that
>
>1 season archery
>1 season muzzleloader
>2 season muzzleloader
>1 season rifle
>2 season rifle
>
>let the archery hunt run it's
>normal 28 days
>
>split the muzzleloader deer hunt up
>into two hunt 1st season
>5 days and then start
>the second season for five
>days yeah you will get
>one extra day of hunting
>It's currently only 9 days
>
>
>split the rifle deer up into
>two hunts 1st season five
>days and second season 5
>days yeah you will get
>one extra day of hunting
>It's currently only 9 days
>as well
>
>problem solved/I forgot add more tags
>to the deer we don't
>have
>
>I was making a joke I
>was just adding more hunts
>for the hell of it
>we don't need anymore hunts
>just manage it better so
>we can issue more tags
>and that's the only way
>to help with point creep.
>
Actually, it won't be a joke if we end up adding antler point restrictions to hunts while keeping the same number of tags as some on this forum have proposed. We'd be issuing tags for legal deer we don't have.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,122
>Funny elkfromabove, we already issue tags
>for deer that we do
>not have...
And so you want to add even more?
>for deer that we do
>not have...
And so you want to add even more?
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
"Issuing Tags for Deer We Don't Have"
I Think that's been going on for more than a while!
You've Heard Me say it before!
But I'll Say it again!
The TARDville Deer Herd is FUBAR!
F'D!
UP!
BEYOND!
A!
REPAIR!
The PISS POOR Management Really SHINED This Year!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
I Think that's been going on for more than a while!
You've Heard Me say it before!
But I'll Say it again!
The TARDville Deer Herd is FUBAR!
F'D!
UP!
BEYOND!
A!
REPAIR!
The PISS POOR Management Really SHINED This Year!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,500
Bessy, you have been loud and clear about how badly you oppose the management strategy. That is for sure. Nobody will mistake your opposition.
One thing I'm not sure about, however, is your position. Can I make a request?
Will you tell us three meaningful changes you would make if you were in charge? Don?t just say ?stop hunting them from August to January? or ?quit managing for money.?
I would like to know not only what is wrong, but three specific changes you'd make if you were king for a day. Tell us how to fix it, not just what is wrong with it.
One thing I'm not sure about, however, is your position. Can I make a request?
Will you tell us three meaningful changes you would make if you were in charge? Don?t just say ?stop hunting them from August to January? or ?quit managing for money.?
I would like to know not only what is wrong, but three specific changes you'd make if you were king for a day. Tell us how to fix it, not just what is wrong with it.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
>Bessy, you have been loud and
>clear about how badly you
>oppose the management strategy. That
>is for sure. Nobody will
>mistake your opposition.
>
>One thing I'm not sure about,
>however, is your position. Can
>I make a request?
>
>Will you tell us three meaningful
>changes you would make if
>you were in charge? Don?t
>just say ?stop hunting them
>from August to January? or
>?quit managing for money.?
>
>I would like to know not
>only what is wrong, but
>three specific changes you'd make
>if you were king for
>a day. Tell us how
>to fix it, not just
>what is wrong with it.
>
Hey Niller!
You Should get it By now!
But I'll put it in Clear Perspective!
Just for You!
There are So Many Issues & Problems that there will Never Ever be Harsh enough Changes Made to Fix all the Problems/Issues!
This State Will Produce Quality Bucks & Bulls just about Statewide when Managed Properly!
The King would need more than a Day Niller to Fix What's been getting F'D Up for nearly 50 years now!
It Would Take many years to somewhat Fix it!
The King would have 80% of TARDS Whining & Crying like You've Never seen!
There Ain't gonna be enough Change to Fix what's already More than F'D Up!
Just SAD to know what it once was/still could be if Managed Properly!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>clear about how badly you
>oppose the management strategy. That
>is for sure. Nobody will
>mistake your opposition.
>
>One thing I'm not sure about,
>however, is your position. Can
>I make a request?
>
>Will you tell us three meaningful
>changes you would make if
>you were in charge? Don?t
>just say ?stop hunting them
>from August to January? or
>?quit managing for money.?
>
>I would like to know not
>only what is wrong, but
>three specific changes you'd make
>if you were king for
>a day. Tell us how
>to fix it, not just
>what is wrong with it.
>
Hey Niller!
You Should get it By now!
But I'll put it in Clear Perspective!
Just for You!
There are So Many Issues & Problems that there will Never Ever be Harsh enough Changes Made to Fix all the Problems/Issues!
This State Will Produce Quality Bucks & Bulls just about Statewide when Managed Properly!
The King would need more than a Day Niller to Fix What's been getting F'D Up for nearly 50 years now!
It Would Take many years to somewhat Fix it!
The King would have 80% of TARDS Whining & Crying like You've Never seen!
There Ain't gonna be enough Change to Fix what's already More than F'D Up!
Just SAD to know what it once was/still could be if Managed Properly!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,500
Can I interpret that as being that you actually don't have a plan?
I get it. The management is junk. You don't need to patronize me and act like I've somehow missed your point. What would you change? This is something that I've never seen you post in all your hundreds of posts complaining about the management. Just once it would be nice to read a proposed solution instead of just complaints.
I get it. The management is junk. You don't need to patronize me and act like I've somehow missed your point. What would you change? This is something that I've never seen you post in all your hundreds of posts complaining about the management. Just once it would be nice to read a proposed solution instead of just complaints.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
Hey Niller!
I Figured what I've been saying forever would Sink in!
There are so many Issues with the Declining Deer Herd that it will NEVER be Fixed!
To Make Change enough just to Help Improve it a Bit You'd have all the Average JOE BLOW Hunters BAWLING Like No other!
I Told You Years ago it'd get Worse!
Did it?
The DWR was Boasting the Best Deer Herd/Deer Hunting in 25 years!
Was it?
It Amazes Me how Few can See it!
Alot of Hunters Think it's gonna Rebound in one F'N Year,WRONG!
Muley73 & Lumpy(And a few Others!) knows & See's what's been happening for many years,You Might not agree with them but if you don't You're Wrong!
To Fix it Niller the List would be Big!
I Could WASTE More Oxygen!
But I Won't!
All the RAC Meetings & Changes from them in one Big Pile Won't Fix what needs Fixing!
And No,I Can't say what needs said in 3 F'N Minutes!
>Can I interpret that as being
>that you actually don't have
>a plan?
>
>I get it. The management is
>junk. You don't need to
>patronize me and act like
>I've somehow missed your point.
>What would you change? This
>is something that I've never
>seen you post in all
>your hundreds of posts complaining
>about the management. Just once
>it would be nice to
>read a proposed solution instead
>of just complaints.
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
I Figured what I've been saying forever would Sink in!
There are so many Issues with the Declining Deer Herd that it will NEVER be Fixed!
To Make Change enough just to Help Improve it a Bit You'd have all the Average JOE BLOW Hunters BAWLING Like No other!
I Told You Years ago it'd get Worse!
Did it?
The DWR was Boasting the Best Deer Herd/Deer Hunting in 25 years!
Was it?
It Amazes Me how Few can See it!
Alot of Hunters Think it's gonna Rebound in one F'N Year,WRONG!
Muley73 & Lumpy(And a few Others!) knows & See's what's been happening for many years,You Might not agree with them but if you don't You're Wrong!
To Fix it Niller the List would be Big!
I Could WASTE More Oxygen!
But I Won't!
All the RAC Meetings & Changes from them in one Big Pile Won't Fix what needs Fixing!
And No,I Can't say what needs said in 3 F'N Minutes!
>Can I interpret that as being
>that you actually don't have
>a plan?
>
>I get it. The management is
>junk. You don't need to
>patronize me and act like
>I've somehow missed your point.
>What would you change? This
>is something that I've never
>seen you post in all
>your hundreds of posts complaining
>about the management. Just once
>it would be nice to
>read a proposed solution instead
>of just complaints.
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 883
Are main problem with are deer herd is everyone wants more Opportunity and so do I but You just plain can't fix a points creep without a deer herd we all know that and yes there are some units that are better than others
I think the buck to doe ratio needs to change to like 20 to 25 bucks per 100 does in each unit in order to give us more opportunity which in turn will help with points creep we can give out more tags.
And then you need to do a survey on each unit and survey half the hunters at least at the end of the season.
you can't send out 9,300 surveys to the whole state not knowing where they hunted hell that's not even a third of the hunters
The 7 year plan is bad deal a recipe for disaster needs to be 5 or 3 year plan.
I think the buck to doe ratio needs to change to like 20 to 25 bucks per 100 does in each unit in order to give us more opportunity which in turn will help with points creep we can give out more tags.
And then you need to do a survey on each unit and survey half the hunters at least at the end of the season.
you can't send out 9,300 surveys to the whole state not knowing where they hunted hell that's not even a third of the hunters
The 7 year plan is bad deal a recipe for disaster needs to be 5 or 3 year plan.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,122
>Hey Niller!
>
>I Figured what I've been saying
>forever would Sink in!
>
>There are so many Issues with
>the Declining Deer Herd that
>it will NEVER be Fixed!
>
>
>To Make Change enough just to
>Help Improve it a Bit
>You'd have all the Average
>JOE BLOW Hunters BAWLING Like
>No other!
>
>I Told You Years ago it'd
>get Worse!
>
>Did it?
>
>The DWR was Boasting the Best
>Deer Herd/Deer Hunting in 25
>years!
>
>Was it?
>
>It Amazes Me how Few can
>See it!
>
>Alot of Hunters Think it's gonna
>Rebound in one F'N Year,WRONG!
>
>
>Muley73 & Lumpy(And a few Others!)
>knows & See's what's been
>happening for many years,You Might
>not agree with them but
>if you don't You're Wrong!
>
>
>To Fix it Niller the List
>would be Big!
>
>I Could WASTE More Oxygen!
>
>But I Won't!
>
>All the RAC Meetings & Changes
>from them in one Big
>Pile Won't Fix what needs
>Fixing!
>
>And No,I Can't say what needs
>said in 3 F'N Minutes!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>Can I interpret that as being
>>that you actually don't have
>>a plan?
>>
>>I get it. The management is
>>junk. You don't need to
>>patronize me and act like
>>I've somehow missed your point.
>>What would you change? This
>>is something that I've never
>>seen you post in all
>>your hundreds of posts complaining
>>about the management. Just once
>>it would be nice to
>>read a proposed solution instead
>>of just complaints.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
So, tell us again who's doing NOTHING but BAWLING?
>
>I Figured what I've been saying
>forever would Sink in!
>
>There are so many Issues with
>the Declining Deer Herd that
>it will NEVER be Fixed!
>
>
>To Make Change enough just to
>Help Improve it a Bit
>You'd have all the Average
>JOE BLOW Hunters BAWLING Like
>No other!
>
>I Told You Years ago it'd
>get Worse!
>
>Did it?
>
>The DWR was Boasting the Best
>Deer Herd/Deer Hunting in 25
>years!
>
>Was it?
>
>It Amazes Me how Few can
>See it!
>
>Alot of Hunters Think it's gonna
>Rebound in one F'N Year,WRONG!
>
>
>Muley73 & Lumpy(And a few Others!)
>knows & See's what's been
>happening for many years,You Might
>not agree with them but
>if you don't You're Wrong!
>
>
>To Fix it Niller the List
>would be Big!
>
>I Could WASTE More Oxygen!
>
>But I Won't!
>
>All the RAC Meetings & Changes
>from them in one Big
>Pile Won't Fix what needs
>Fixing!
>
>And No,I Can't say what needs
>said in 3 F'N Minutes!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>Can I interpret that as being
>>that you actually don't have
>>a plan?
>>
>>I get it. The management is
>>junk. You don't need to
>>patronize me and act like
>>I've somehow missed your point.
>>What would you change? This
>>is something that I've never
>>seen you post in all
>>your hundreds of posts complaining
>>about the management. Just once
>>it would be nice to
>>read a proposed solution instead
>>of just complaints.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
So, tell us again who's doing NOTHING but BAWLING?
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
>>Hey Niller!
>>
>>I Figured what I've been saying
>>forever would Sink in!
>>
>>There are so many Issues with
>>the Declining Deer Herd that
>>it will NEVER be Fixed!
>>
>>
>>To Make Change enough just to
>>Help Improve it a Bit
>>You'd have all the Average
>>JOE BLOW Hunters BAWLING Like
>>No other!
>>
>>I Told You Years ago it'd
>>get Worse!
>>
>>Did it?
>>
>>The DWR was Boasting the Best
>>Deer Herd/Deer Hunting in 25
>>years!
>>
>>Was it?
>>
>>It Amazes Me how Few can
>>See it!
>>
>>Alot of Hunters Think it's gonna
>>Rebound in one F'N Year,WRONG!
>>
>>
>>Muley73 & Lumpy(And a few Others!)
>>knows & See's what's been
>>happening for many years,You Might
>>not agree with them but
>>if you don't You're Wrong!
>>
>>
>>To Fix it Niller the List
>>would be Big!
>>
>>I Could WASTE More Oxygen!
>>
>>But I Won't!
>>
>>All the RAC Meetings & Changes
>>from them in one Big
>>Pile Won't Fix what needs
>>Fixing!
>>
>>And No,I Can't say what needs
>>said in 3 F'N Minutes!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Can I interpret that as being
>>>that you actually don't have
>>>a plan?
>>>
>>>I get it. The management is
>>>junk. You don't need to
>>>patronize me and act like
>>>I've somehow missed your point.
>>>What would you change? This
>>>is something that I've never
>>>seen you post in all
>>>your hundreds of posts complaining
>>>about the management. Just once
>>>it would be nice to
>>>read a proposed solution instead
>>>of just complaints.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>So, tell us again who's doing
>NOTHING but BAWLING?
No BAWLING Here!
Telling You the F'N Way it is!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>
>>I Figured what I've been saying
>>forever would Sink in!
>>
>>There are so many Issues with
>>the Declining Deer Herd that
>>it will NEVER be Fixed!
>>
>>
>>To Make Change enough just to
>>Help Improve it a Bit
>>You'd have all the Average
>>JOE BLOW Hunters BAWLING Like
>>No other!
>>
>>I Told You Years ago it'd
>>get Worse!
>>
>>Did it?
>>
>>The DWR was Boasting the Best
>>Deer Herd/Deer Hunting in 25
>>years!
>>
>>Was it?
>>
>>It Amazes Me how Few can
>>See it!
>>
>>Alot of Hunters Think it's gonna
>>Rebound in one F'N Year,WRONG!
>>
>>
>>Muley73 & Lumpy(And a few Others!)
>>knows & See's what's been
>>happening for many years,You Might
>>not agree with them but
>>if you don't You're Wrong!
>>
>>
>>To Fix it Niller the List
>>would be Big!
>>
>>I Could WASTE More Oxygen!
>>
>>But I Won't!
>>
>>All the RAC Meetings & Changes
>>from them in one Big
>>Pile Won't Fix what needs
>>Fixing!
>>
>>And No,I Can't say what needs
>>said in 3 F'N Minutes!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Can I interpret that as being
>>>that you actually don't have
>>>a plan?
>>>
>>>I get it. The management is
>>>junk. You don't need to
>>>patronize me and act like
>>>I've somehow missed your point.
>>>What would you change? This
>>>is something that I've never
>>>seen you post in all
>>>your hundreds of posts complaining
>>>about the management. Just once
>>>it would be nice to
>>>read a proposed solution instead
>>>of just complaints.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>So, tell us again who's doing
>NOTHING but BAWLING?
No BAWLING Here!
Telling You the F'N Way it is!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
They get something Locked in for 7 Years & that ought to Finish F'N it Up!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,122
>>So, tell us again who's doing
>>NOTHING but BAWLING?
>
>No BAWLING Here!
>
>Telling You the F'N Way it
>is!
>
>
Which leaves us with what?
>>NOTHING but BAWLING?
>
>No BAWLING Here!
>
>Telling You the F'N Way it
>is!
>
>
Which leaves us with what?
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,500
Yep, you've got no ideas at all how to fix it. I kind of figured that, but just wanted to illustrate it for everyone.
I've been around for a bit. I literally have never seen you post an idea how to make it better, simply just want to sit around and pizz and moan about how things aren't how you like.
It's fine, it's America. You can do what you want. I just want everyone to for sure realize what they're reading.
I've been around for a bit. I literally have never seen you post an idea how to make it better, simply just want to sit around and pizz and moan about how things aren't how you like.
It's fine, it's America. You can do what you want. I just want everyone to for sure realize what they're reading.
deerelkalope
Active Member
- Messages
- 211
So....there are some topics/ideas that have been tossed around forever, antler restrictions, split seasons, archery only, etc. The state was divided into 30 or so units so the deer herd could be micromanaged. We all pretty much agree that management is lacking. Is there any reason that we can't experiment by implementing three point or better in a particular unit for 2 or 3 years? Same with split seasons? Archery only? Shorter seasons? Shut down a unit for 2 years? Let's try some tactics to see what works. If a hunter doesn't like any of the changes he can apply for a different unit. Also, just my 2 cents about antler restrictions and the concern that 2 points will be shot and left to rot. Yes it will happen, to a very small degree. If a hunter can't tell that a buck is a 2 or 3/4 point before he shoots, he shouldn't be hunting. Many of us pass up 2 points anyway. At what distance are most milk-lipped 2 points killed? If there are not enough game wardens to monitor these areas, there are 10,000 dedicated hunters and only 30 projects. We could be used at checking stations or patrolling these units. The definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,298
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 02:45PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 02:44?PM (MST)
I am not saying if three point or better is a good idea or a bad idea. But Three point or better is never going to happen in Utah. Utah tried it in some units back in the 1980s including everyone favorite unit the Henry's. The DWR claims they did not see any rewards infact they claim some units including the Henry's had some negative affect.
My question to anyone that wants three point or better is why has most states tried three point or better and stopped the practice?
I am not saying if three point or better is a good idea or a bad idea. But Three point or better is never going to happen in Utah. Utah tried it in some units back in the 1980s including everyone favorite unit the Henry's. The DWR claims they did not see any rewards infact they claim some units including the Henry's had some negative affect.
My question to anyone that wants three point or better is why has most states tried three point or better and stopped the practice?
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
>Yep, you've got no ideas at
>all how to fix it.
Don't give me that BS Niller!
>I kind of figured that,
>but just wanted to illustrate
>it for everyone.
>
>I've been around for a bit.
>I literally have never seen
>you post an idea how
>to make it better, simply
>just want to sit around
>and pizz and moan about
>how things aren't how you
>like.
I Post The Truth & You Don't Like it I Guess!
>
>It's fine, it's America. You can
>do what you want. I
>just want everyone to for
>sure realize what they're reading.
>
So You're gonna Sit Back,Do Nothing,and Hope the DWR Fixes it!
Wanna Place Some Bets on that?
I'm Talking Money Bets!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>all how to fix it.
Don't give me that BS Niller!
>I kind of figured that,
>but just wanted to illustrate
>it for everyone.
>
>I've been around for a bit.
>I literally have never seen
>you post an idea how
>to make it better, simply
>just want to sit around
>and pizz and moan about
>how things aren't how you
>like.
I Post The Truth & You Don't Like it I Guess!
>
>It's fine, it's America. You can
>do what you want. I
>just want everyone to for
>sure realize what they're reading.
>
So You're gonna Sit Back,Do Nothing,and Hope the DWR Fixes it!
Wanna Place Some Bets on that?
I'm Talking Money Bets!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,824
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19
>AT 02:45?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19
>AT 02:44?PM (MST)
>
>I am not saying if three
>point or better is a
>good idea or a bad
>idea. But Three point or
>better is never going to
>happen in Utah. Utah tried
>it in some units back
>in the 1980s including everyone
>favorite unit the Henry's. The
>DWR claims they did not
>see any rewards infact they
>claim some units including the
>Henry's had some negative affect.
>
>My question to anyone that wants
>three point or better is
>why has most states tried
>three point or better and
>stopped the practice?
This statement is not correct at all.
The Henry's were phenomenal hunting with exceptional harvest rates of mature bucks back when it was an open unit with APR.
I know this as factual because that was my unit of choice and we all harvested nice bucks year in and year out.
I also was there on the first year they lifted the restriction and it was disgusting watching young bucks getting slaughtered everywhere you looked. We even saw small bucks left to rot (even though they were legal) because people wanted to kill bigger deer.
Anyone who says the APR's "didn't work" is dead wrong.
Sure a few 2 points were shot and wasted, but how many 2 points were shot when they lifted it, which ultimately led to an emergency closure of both the Henry's and the Bookcliffs.
I was there, I saw it with my own eyes!
>AT 02:45?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19
>AT 02:44?PM (MST)
>
>I am not saying if three
>point or better is a
>good idea or a bad
>idea. But Three point or
>better is never going to
>happen in Utah. Utah tried
>it in some units back
>in the 1980s including everyone
>favorite unit the Henry's. The
>DWR claims they did not
>see any rewards infact they
>claim some units including the
>Henry's had some negative affect.
>
>My question to anyone that wants
>three point or better is
>why has most states tried
>three point or better and
>stopped the practice?
This statement is not correct at all.
The Henry's were phenomenal hunting with exceptional harvest rates of mature bucks back when it was an open unit with APR.
I know this as factual because that was my unit of choice and we all harvested nice bucks year in and year out.
I also was there on the first year they lifted the restriction and it was disgusting watching young bucks getting slaughtered everywhere you looked. We even saw small bucks left to rot (even though they were legal) because people wanted to kill bigger deer.
Anyone who says the APR's "didn't work" is dead wrong.
Sure a few 2 points were shot and wasted, but how many 2 points were shot when they lifted it, which ultimately led to an emergency closure of both the Henry's and the Bookcliffs.
I was there, I saw it with my own eyes!
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,298
slam I am only saying what the DWR says if you guys can not face the facts and want to keep suggestion what the DWR is absolutely against "and that Is a fact" then you can keep getting nothing done with the DWR.
slam you know so much why has most all of the Muley Deer states have tried three point or better and no one is still doing it.
Is it because no fish and game department wants mature deer. If three point or better was soo good I think at least one state would have continued the program.
I do not mean anything negative towards some of these ideas, I really think the suggestion of two point or smaller on even years and three point or better on odd years is an interesting idea, it might offset the biologists theory of killing out of large genes. The idea move seasons and maybe get the same amount of hunting in in a shorter period might be a good idea. But to keep pushing an idea the DWR says is an absolute bust is not going to happen it does not matter how many guys you get on your side.
slam you know so much why has most all of the Muley Deer states have tried three point or better and no one is still doing it.
Is it because no fish and game department wants mature deer. If three point or better was soo good I think at least one state would have continued the program.
I do not mean anything negative towards some of these ideas, I really think the suggestion of two point or smaller on even years and three point or better on odd years is an interesting idea, it might offset the biologists theory of killing out of large genes. The idea move seasons and maybe get the same amount of hunting in in a shorter period might be a good idea. But to keep pushing an idea the DWR says is an absolute bust is not going to happen it does not matter how many guys you get on your side.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,824
NDH
I apologize that what I said sounded directed at you, it was meant only in reference to you stating what the DWR said about APR's.....my bad.
As far as other states having APR's, I'd have to research that but I do hunt Wyoming and it is full of various APR's of both 3pt and 4pt units.
I apologize that what I said sounded directed at you, it was meant only in reference to you stating what the DWR said about APR's.....my bad.
As far as other states having APR's, I'd have to research that but I do hunt Wyoming and it is full of various APR's of both 3pt and 4pt units.
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,298
I understand that and I am wrong i hade no idea about Wyoming having APR.
I think APR might work but I just think in Utahs case it needs to be approache different in order for the DWR to see a benefit. We need to get the DWR belive the are doing something new.
I really like the idea of Dedicated Hunters helping the Game Biologists in deer counts.
I think APR might work but I just think in Utahs case it needs to be approache different in order for the DWR to see a benefit. We need to get the DWR belive the are doing something new.
I really like the idea of Dedicated Hunters helping the Game Biologists in deer counts.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,824
So let's just say we give up trying to convince the DWR to go back to something they already proved doesn't work, I get it.
So what if we do a little self disciplining.
How many times do hunters hold out for bigger bucks the first week or so of the hunt, then lower their standards and start "meat hunting" towards the end?
Let's hold ourselves accountable accordingly.
If I want a mature buck, my tag will say "Mature Buck Only" and have some type of APR adopted and described by definition and law.
If a person wants to harvest an animal for meat and doesn't care about antler size, he chooses to apply for a "Immature Buck Only" and makes him harvest younger bucks or the bonus of an opportunity to harvest an older buck that only has 2 points (similarto a 1x6 on a spike only elk unit).
Tag numbers stay the same and opportunity stays the same per unit.
This decreases the amount of younger bucks harvested and gives the people in favor of APR's a good compromise.
The only downside is the person who drew the Immature Buck tags is forced to watch a mature buck walk away, but he knows that because of the tag he applied for.
Any tags leftover go OTC as usual after the draw.
So what if we do a little self disciplining.
How many times do hunters hold out for bigger bucks the first week or so of the hunt, then lower their standards and start "meat hunting" towards the end?
Let's hold ourselves accountable accordingly.
If I want a mature buck, my tag will say "Mature Buck Only" and have some type of APR adopted and described by definition and law.
If a person wants to harvest an animal for meat and doesn't care about antler size, he chooses to apply for a "Immature Buck Only" and makes him harvest younger bucks or the bonus of an opportunity to harvest an older buck that only has 2 points (similarto a 1x6 on a spike only elk unit).
Tag numbers stay the same and opportunity stays the same per unit.
This decreases the amount of younger bucks harvested and gives the people in favor of APR's a good compromise.
The only downside is the person who drew the Immature Buck tags is forced to watch a mature buck walk away, but he knows that because of the tag he applied for.
Any tags leftover go OTC as usual after the draw.
elkantlers
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,896
>
>If I want a mature buck,
>my tag will say "Mature
>Buck Only" and have some
>type of APR adopted and
>described by definition and law.
>
>
>If a person wants to harvest
>an animal for meat and
>doesn't care about antler size,
>he chooses to apply for
>a "Immature Buck Only" and
>makes him harvest younger bucks
>or the bonus of an
>opportunity to harvest an older
>buck that only has 2
>points (similarto a 1x6 on
>a spike only elk unit).
>
>
>Tag numbers stay the same and
>opportunity stays the same per
>unit.
>
>This decreases the amount of younger
>bucks harvested and gives the
>people in favor of APR's
>a good compromise.
Immature buck tag? SMH. Not one of your better ideas.
>If I want a mature buck,
>my tag will say "Mature
>Buck Only" and have some
>type of APR adopted and
>described by definition and law.
>
>
>If a person wants to harvest
>an animal for meat and
>doesn't care about antler size,
>he chooses to apply for
>a "Immature Buck Only" and
>makes him harvest younger bucks
>or the bonus of an
>opportunity to harvest an older
>buck that only has 2
>points (similarto a 1x6 on
>a spike only elk unit).
>
>
>Tag numbers stay the same and
>opportunity stays the same per
>unit.
>
>This decreases the amount of younger
>bucks harvested and gives the
>people in favor of APR's
>a good compromise.
Immature buck tag? SMH. Not one of your better ideas.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,122
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 11:26PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 11:25?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 11:20?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 11:09?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 10:54?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 10:30?PM (MST)
>NDH
>I apologize that what I said
>sounded directed at you, it
>was meant only in reference
>to you stating what the
>DWR said about APR's.....my bad.
>
>
>As far as other states having
>APR's, I'd have to research
>that but I do hunt
>Wyoming and it is full
>of various APR's of both
>3pt and 4pt units.
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/con...ive/MULEDEER_ANTLERPOINTREGS_REVIE0006790.pdf
(Especially Table 1, pages 10, 11, 12.)
(Also note sources.)
http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2011/antlers.htm
Growing Big Bucks - 4th paragraph
https://www.wafwa.org/committees_groups/mule_deer_working_group/publications/
Click on Mule Deer Working Group
Then click on Fact Sheet #6
(The others are good reading as well.)
https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...antler-point-restrictions-dangerous-precedent
Sorry about all the edits, but some of the direct links are either too long for this forum or are hidden in the home links.
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 11:20?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 11:09?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 10:54?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 10:30?PM (MST)
>NDH
>I apologize that what I said
>sounded directed at you, it
>was meant only in reference
>to you stating what the
>DWR said about APR's.....my bad.
>
>
>As far as other states having
>APR's, I'd have to research
>that but I do hunt
>Wyoming and it is full
>of various APR's of both
>3pt and 4pt units.
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/con...ive/MULEDEER_ANTLERPOINTREGS_REVIE0006790.pdf
(Especially Table 1, pages 10, 11, 12.)
(Also note sources.)
http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2011/antlers.htm
Growing Big Bucks - 4th paragraph
https://www.wafwa.org/committees_groups/mule_deer_working_group/publications/
Click on Mule Deer Working Group
Then click on Fact Sheet #6
(The others are good reading as well.)
https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...antler-point-restrictions-dangerous-precedent
Sorry about all the edits, but some of the direct links are either too long for this forum or are hidden in the home links.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,824
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 10:28PM (MST)[p]>Immature buck tag? SMH. Not one
>of your better ideas.
Just thinking out loud of course.
Elk and deer are apples and oranges, but we did adopt a spike only on our bulls to allow younger bulls to mature and our bull numbers exploded, all while LE hunters were harvesting limited numbers of mature bulls.
What's so bad about making hunters choose what they pursuing?
>of your better ideas.
Just thinking out loud of course.
Elk and deer are apples and oranges, but we did adopt a spike only on our bulls to allow younger bulls to mature and our bull numbers exploded, all while LE hunters were harvesting limited numbers of mature bulls.
What's so bad about making hunters choose what they pursuing?
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,298
slams idea might be a good idea might not but what it does is get pepole thinking of a different way.
How about taking slams idea but applie it to different seasons. They have implemented the early rifle seasons to some units maybe make the early rifle 3 point or less and the regular rifle 4 point and up. The early rifle is better weather so funner for the youth and it is also during the general elk hunt.
How about taking slams idea but applie it to different seasons. They have implemented the early rifle seasons to some units maybe make the early rifle 3 point or less and the regular rifle 4 point and up. The early rifle is better weather so funner for the youth and it is also during the general elk hunt.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,824
>slams idea might be a good
>idea might not but what
>it does is get pepole
>thinking of a different way.
>
>How about taking slams idea but
>applie it to different seasons.
>They have implemented the early
>rifle seasons to some units
>maybe make the early rifle
>3 point or less and
>the regular rifle 4 point
>and up. The early rifle
>is better weather so funner
>for the youth and it
>is also during the general
>elk hunt.
Bingo.....I like it!!?
>idea might not but what
>it does is get pepole
>thinking of a different way.
>
>How about taking slams idea but
>applie it to different seasons.
>They have implemented the early
>rifle seasons to some units
>maybe make the early rifle
>3 point or less and
>the regular rifle 4 point
>and up. The early rifle
>is better weather so funner
>for the youth and it
>is also during the general
>elk hunt.
Bingo.....I like it!!?
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,298
I got to get to bed work comes early tomorrow.
elkfromabove I will resf your info tomorrow during work i hope it keeps me awake.
elkfromabove I will resf your info tomorrow during work i hope it keeps me awake.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
Hey PUNK!
Not a Bad Idea!
But the 'Immature Tag' needs to be Labeled 'PISSCUTTER Tag'!
I'd Love to See EFA Packin a PISSCUTTER Only Tag,LOL!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Not a Bad Idea!
But the 'Immature Tag' needs to be Labeled 'PISSCUTTER Tag'!
I'd Love to See EFA Packin a PISSCUTTER Only Tag,LOL!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 883
Slam I like your idea I would take a mature tag any day.you could probably add more tags on that also to help with the points creep
The only other solution is raising the buck to doe ratio yeah it would suck for only a year or two but it will provide more tags and opportunity for hunters in the future
The only other solution is raising the buck to doe ratio yeah it would suck for only a year or two but it will provide more tags and opportunity for hunters in the future
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,500
elkassbessy,
I'm happy to bet with you, but I don't know what we are betting since you still haven't said what should change, just that change is needed.
I think we all are open to change and good ideas. I'm not open to years of incessant whining with literally zero ideas for how to make it better. I believe you're better than that. I am hoping you'll show me you are.
I didn't ask for you to tell me how to "fix" the issues. I asked for three ideas for changes that would make it better. I guess that was too much, so I'll reduce that and just ask for one. Just one idea. Don't whine and say what is wrong, tell me just one specific change you'd make if you could make that decision on your own. Just one that will make things a little better.
I'm happy to bet with you, but I don't know what we are betting since you still haven't said what should change, just that change is needed.
I think we all are open to change and good ideas. I'm not open to years of incessant whining with literally zero ideas for how to make it better. I believe you're better than that. I am hoping you'll show me you are.
I didn't ask for you to tell me how to "fix" the issues. I asked for three ideas for changes that would make it better. I guess that was too much, so I'll reduce that and just ask for one. Just one idea. Don't whine and say what is wrong, tell me just one specific change you'd make if you could make that decision on your own. Just one that will make things a little better.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,122
>
>Hey PUNK!
>
>Not a Bad Idea!
>
>But the 'Immature Tag' needs to
>be Labeled 'PISSCUTTER Tag'!
>
>I'd Love to See EFA Packin
>a PISSCUTTER Only Tag,LOL!
>
>
I'd love it too, so long as I could do it every year or two,'cause I've seen some pretty good 2 and 3 points over the years! AND it would give me (or you) a good reason to continue hunting over bait in order to better identify the number of points.
>Hey PUNK!
>
>Not a Bad Idea!
>
>But the 'Immature Tag' needs to
>be Labeled 'PISSCUTTER Tag'!
>
>I'd Love to See EFA Packin
>a PISSCUTTER Only Tag,LOL!
>
>
I'd love it too, so long as I could do it every year or two,'cause I've seen some pretty good 2 and 3 points over the years! AND it would give me (or you) a good reason to continue hunting over bait in order to better identify the number of points.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,824
>Slam I like your idea I
>would take a mature tag
>any day.you could probably add
>more tags on that also
>to help with the points
>creep
>
Wyoming has the same concept on some of their regions.
For instance...
Region W has 4 or 5 units within that region and each unit has some kind of APR or is LE.
My idea of restrictions is just on paper, but anyone can hunt a particular unit.
>would take a mature tag
>any day.you could probably add
>more tags on that also
>to help with the points
>creep
>
Wyoming has the same concept on some of their regions.
For instance...
Region W has 4 or 5 units within that region and each unit has some kind of APR or is LE.
My idea of restrictions is just on paper, but anyone can hunt a particular unit.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
>elkassbessy,
>
>I'm happy to bet with you,
>but I don't know what
>we are betting since you
>still haven't said what should
>change, just that change is
>needed.
>
>I think we all are open
>to change and good ideas.
>I'm not open to years
>of incessant whining with literally
>zero ideas for how to
>make it better. I believe
>you're better than that. I
>am hoping you'll show me
>you are.
>
>I didn't ask for you to
>tell me how to "fix"
>the issues. I asked for
>three ideas for changes that
>would make it better. I
>guess that was too much,
>so I'll reduce that and
>just ask for one. Just
>one idea. Don't whine and
>say what is wrong, tell
>me just one specific change
>you'd make if you could
>make that decision on your
>own. Just one that will
>make things a little better.
>
You Ain't Payin Attention again Niller!
I've said for Years it would take MAJOR Changes to Bring the Deer Herd back to where they should be!
Not these little/STUPID changes we've seen that have FAILED for Decades!
I've said for Years there's at least 50 Reasons why the Deer Herd is Suffering & in POOR Shape!
Me Mentioning/Telling you just one Thing I'd do Ain't gonna Fix the Problem!
You act like a couple of Small Changes is gonna Fix everything!
Well it Won't!
It would Take some BIG Changes Niller!
Changes You wouldn't Like!
Do You Give a RAT'S ASS what Your Kids or Grand-Kids might be dealing with when they get old enough to Hunt?
Spike Bucks should be Trophies by then!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>I'm happy to bet with you,
>but I don't know what
>we are betting since you
>still haven't said what should
>change, just that change is
>needed.
>
>I think we all are open
>to change and good ideas.
>I'm not open to years
>of incessant whining with literally
>zero ideas for how to
>make it better. I believe
>you're better than that. I
>am hoping you'll show me
>you are.
>
>I didn't ask for you to
>tell me how to "fix"
>the issues. I asked for
>three ideas for changes that
>would make it better. I
>guess that was too much,
>so I'll reduce that and
>just ask for one. Just
>one idea. Don't whine and
>say what is wrong, tell
>me just one specific change
>you'd make if you could
>make that decision on your
>own. Just one that will
>make things a little better.
>
You Ain't Payin Attention again Niller!
I've said for Years it would take MAJOR Changes to Bring the Deer Herd back to where they should be!
Not these little/STUPID changes we've seen that have FAILED for Decades!
I've said for Years there's at least 50 Reasons why the Deer Herd is Suffering & in POOR Shape!
Me Mentioning/Telling you just one Thing I'd do Ain't gonna Fix the Problem!
You act like a couple of Small Changes is gonna Fix everything!
Well it Won't!
It would Take some BIG Changes Niller!
Changes You wouldn't Like!
Do You Give a RAT'S ASS what Your Kids or Grand-Kids might be dealing with when they get old enough to Hunt?
Spike Bucks should be Trophies by then!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
RoadlessHunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 581
Wyoming isn't running a true antler restriction.
Region K is three point or better, but youth can shoot any deer including does spikes and two points. The youth are still killing the majority of the two point and under bucks. Doe's are become extinct in Region K because of the easy access. A good portion of Evanston takes their kids up to shoot doe's on the last couple days. This doe slaughter isn't good for the deer herd here in Wyoming.
Fish and Game claim this isn't hurting the deer herd. Just give it a couple more years and the herd may start to collapse.
Region K is three point or better, but youth can shoot any deer including does spikes and two points. The youth are still killing the majority of the two point and under bucks. Doe's are become extinct in Region K because of the easy access. A good portion of Evanston takes their kids up to shoot doe's on the last couple days. This doe slaughter isn't good for the deer herd here in Wyoming.
Fish and Game claim this isn't hurting the deer herd. Just give it a couple more years and the herd may start to collapse.
Tikka
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,402
Here's one option that's been floating around in my head for a bit...
60,000 permits on even years and 60,000 permits on odd years.
Here's how it would work, you apply for either odd years or even years so you only hunt every other year... and you can re-apply after 4 years if you want to change the even or odd year cycle.
so now you have 60,000 permits every year and you are guaranteed a permit every other year, so 2 permits in a 4 year span...
That eliminates pressure and allows bucks to make it through the MOTL/dumb years, make it to maturity for breeding stock...
60,000 permits on even years and 60,000 permits on odd years.
Here's how it would work, you apply for either odd years or even years so you only hunt every other year... and you can re-apply after 4 years if you want to change the even or odd year cycle.
so now you have 60,000 permits every year and you are guaranteed a permit every other year, so 2 permits in a 4 year span...
That eliminates pressure and allows bucks to make it through the MOTL/dumb years, make it to maturity for breeding stock...
>Wyoming isn't running a true antler
>restriction.
>
>Region K is three point or
>better, but youth can shoot
>any deer including does spikes
>and two points. The
>youth are still killing the
>majority of the two point
>and under bucks. Doe's
>are become extinct in Region
>K because of the easy
>access. A good portion
>of Evanston takes their kids
>up to shoot doe's on
>the last couple days.
>This doe slaughter isn't good
>for the deer herd here
>in Wyoming.
>
>Fish and Game claim this isn't
>hurting the deer herd.
>Just give it a couple
>more years and the herd
>may start to collapse.
In 2018 a total of 28 does were taken in all of Region K by youth under a Gen tag. This is not a "good portion of Evanston". If those 28 does are bringing about the extinction of MD does in Region K then it was doomed to failure anyway. Not saying I agree with youth being allowed to harvest MD does, I don't and I wont let my sons do it, but this is not the reason for MD struggles in Region K.
>restriction.
>
>Region K is three point or
>better, but youth can shoot
>any deer including does spikes
>and two points. The
>youth are still killing the
>majority of the two point
>and under bucks. Doe's
>are become extinct in Region
>K because of the easy
>access. A good portion
>of Evanston takes their kids
>up to shoot doe's on
>the last couple days.
>This doe slaughter isn't good
>for the deer herd here
>in Wyoming.
>
>Fish and Game claim this isn't
>hurting the deer herd.
>Just give it a couple
>more years and the herd
>may start to collapse.
In 2018 a total of 28 does were taken in all of Region K by youth under a Gen tag. This is not a "good portion of Evanston". If those 28 does are bringing about the extinction of MD does in Region K then it was doomed to failure anyway. Not saying I agree with youth being allowed to harvest MD does, I don't and I wont let my sons do it, but this is not the reason for MD struggles in Region K.
scopenstalk
Active Member
- Messages
- 499
How would you deal with the dedicated poacher program? Still allow them to hunt all 3 years until 2 tags are notched?
Tikka
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,402
LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-19 AT 08:41PM (MST)[p]?How would you deal with the dedicated poacher program? Still allow them to hunt all 3 years until 2 tags are notched??
Well I didn't know I was a poacher first of all, so thanks for informing me...
When I threw that out there I wasn?t thinking of dedicated hunters, even though I'm one...
But yes that would work...
Well I didn't know I was a poacher first of all, so thanks for informing me...
When I threw that out there I wasn?t thinking of dedicated hunters, even though I'm one...
But yes that would work...
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,298
I really do not understand the way people think. They want you to limit the amount of bucks you kill but complain about a program that is designed to do that.
Every single Dedicated Hunter that I know does not average there two deer in three years. I have been a dedicated hunter every year until this year because I did not draw out. The dedicated hunter program started if i remember correctly 1997 so that is 21 years I killed 6 bucks in them 21 years. One buck from the Paunsagunt not too impressive a small 25 inch 170 class buck but i had a blast hunting a total of 27 days that was back when dedicated hunter could hunt all three hunts. I killed one 30 incher 170 class buck, one 27 incher 170 class buck, one 25 inch heavy 160 class past his prime buck, one buck I shot on my brother's property that I thought was a really good buck but ended up being a 150 class 22 inch 2 1/2 year old buck with great genes, I was bumed I shot him, and this last go around of dedicated hunter my boy was old enough he would not shoot 2 points anymore and I wanted some deer meat I found 2 1/2 year old 18 inch 2 point a hundred yards off of the road so I shot him and had him gutted out and to the butcher shop in under an hour some of the finest meat I have ever had.
I believe most dedicated hunters are pretty selective and pass on bucks the first year so they do not burn a permit and then end up only harvesting one buck out of the next two years.
I have heard the complaints from the archery hunters of the dedicated hunters getting in there way but I take archery pretty serious and I see no reason you (archery hunters) have a right more than me (dedicated hunter) to hunt public land.
Every single Dedicated Hunter that I know does not average there two deer in three years. I have been a dedicated hunter every year until this year because I did not draw out. The dedicated hunter program started if i remember correctly 1997 so that is 21 years I killed 6 bucks in them 21 years. One buck from the Paunsagunt not too impressive a small 25 inch 170 class buck but i had a blast hunting a total of 27 days that was back when dedicated hunter could hunt all three hunts. I killed one 30 incher 170 class buck, one 27 incher 170 class buck, one 25 inch heavy 160 class past his prime buck, one buck I shot on my brother's property that I thought was a really good buck but ended up being a 150 class 22 inch 2 1/2 year old buck with great genes, I was bumed I shot him, and this last go around of dedicated hunter my boy was old enough he would not shoot 2 points anymore and I wanted some deer meat I found 2 1/2 year old 18 inch 2 point a hundred yards off of the road so I shot him and had him gutted out and to the butcher shop in under an hour some of the finest meat I have ever had.
I believe most dedicated hunters are pretty selective and pass on bucks the first year so they do not burn a permit and then end up only harvesting one buck out of the next two years.
I have heard the complaints from the archery hunters of the dedicated hunters getting in there way but I take archery pretty serious and I see no reason you (archery hunters) have a right more than me (dedicated hunter) to hunt public land.
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 883
scopenstalk I'm a poacher do you know something that all of us don't?
by all means tell us what you know.
And why your at it tell us how many projects have you done to help are wildlife in the course of 2 years.
by all means tell us what you know.
And why your at it tell us how many projects have you done to help are wildlife in the course of 2 years.
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 883
notdonhunting
This is my second year in the program and I still haven't notched my tag I'm picky I will turn my tag back in before I shoot a small buck.
This is my second year in the program and I still haven't notched my tag I'm picky I will turn my tag back in before I shoot a small buck.
Resident hunter here.
I've shot 2 deer in 11 years. Not cuz I wanted to. I chose it.
I attended the northern rac and I appreciate reading some concerned sportsmen?s thoughts and ideas. But we will need you there at the meeting this week as well!
I agree it is past time for big changes.
-There is no public trust on counts (stop the BS)
Even Covy admitted a drop in population of deer at the northern RAC meeting
-They could do other things to help point creep if they are serious about it (Amendment rule states ?Up to? 200 expo tags) put some or all of those tags back in the state draw.
- for gawds sake, quit discussing More opportunity (late season muzzy hunts) until we fix where we are currently at
-Increase tag prices to make up revenue
-severely reduce tags in 2020 or shut units down
-quit shooting does.
-Kill more elk
-The management plan shouldn't change to 7 years. They can't get it right in 5 years.
-Quit chasing deer so late in the year
-End the DH program
-get the tag recommendations posted before the draw ends
Yep....I'll be the dik.....
Time to put the critters first. Even before ourselves
I like some of the other posted ideas.
It's time for some serious change folks
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
I've shot 2 deer in 11 years. Not cuz I wanted to. I chose it.
I attended the northern rac and I appreciate reading some concerned sportsmen?s thoughts and ideas. But we will need you there at the meeting this week as well!
I agree it is past time for big changes.
-There is no public trust on counts (stop the BS)
Even Covy admitted a drop in population of deer at the northern RAC meeting
-They could do other things to help point creep if they are serious about it (Amendment rule states ?Up to? 200 expo tags) put some or all of those tags back in the state draw.
- for gawds sake, quit discussing More opportunity (late season muzzy hunts) until we fix where we are currently at
-Increase tag prices to make up revenue
-severely reduce tags in 2020 or shut units down
-quit shooting does.
-Kill more elk
-The management plan shouldn't change to 7 years. They can't get it right in 5 years.
-Quit chasing deer so late in the year
-End the DH program
-get the tag recommendations posted before the draw ends
Yep....I'll be the dik.....
Time to put the critters first. Even before ourselves
I like some of the other posted ideas.
It's time for some serious change folks
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 883
BillyBob I really would like to know why you and others want to end the DH program?
Slayer....
I think the GS regulations should change. How I think they should change wouldn't work with the current DH program in place. Neither would Lifetime license holders.
I think it should be set up so if you draw any tag, regardless if you hunt, you can't apply for any tag the following year. You?d have to sit out for a year.
Don?t like it!? Help a friend or a youth on your ?off? year
Lost revenue could be fixed by a tag price increase.
I'll be that dik.
Sorry not sorry
The critters needs right now need to be put before ours.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
I think the GS regulations should change. How I think they should change wouldn't work with the current DH program in place. Neither would Lifetime license holders.
I think it should be set up so if you draw any tag, regardless if you hunt, you can't apply for any tag the following year. You?d have to sit out for a year.
Don?t like it!? Help a friend or a youth on your ?off? year
Lost revenue could be fixed by a tag price increase.
I'll be that dik.
Sorry not sorry
The critters needs right now need to be put before ours.
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 883
I like your way of thinking but how would you make up for the 248,928 service hours that the DH program are doing.
scopenstalk
Active Member
- Messages
- 499
>scopenstalk I'm a poacher do you
>know something that all of
>us don't?
>
>by all means tell us what
>you know.
>
>And why your at it tell
>us how many projects have
>you done to help are
>wildlife in the course of
>2 years.
Probably an ill advised joke on my part. I have been part of the program and plan on being when I can draw it next year. I did all my project hours by helping establish wild colonies of quail in the sheep rock mountains.
>know something that all of
>us don't?
>
>by all means tell us what
>you know.
>
>And why your at it tell
>us how many projects have
>you done to help are
>wildlife in the course of
>2 years.
Probably an ill advised joke on my part. I have been part of the program and plan on being when I can draw it next year. I did all my project hours by helping establish wild colonies of quail in the sheep rock mountains.
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,500
LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-19 AT 07:53AM (MST)[p]?You Ain't Payin Attention again Niller!
I've said for Years it would take MAJOR Changes to Bring the Deer Herd back to where they should be!
Not these little/STUPID changes we've seen that have FAILED for Decades!
I've said for Years there's at least 50 Reasons why the Deer Herd is Suffering & in POOR Shape!
Me Mentioning/Telling you just one Thing I'd do Ain't gonna Fix the Problem!
You act like a couple of Small Changes is gonna Fix everything!
Well it Won't!
It would Take some BIG Changes Niller!
Changes You wouldn't Like!
Do You Give a RAT'S ASS what Your Kids or Grand-Kids might be dealing with when they get old enough to Hunt?
Spike Bucks should be Trophies by then!? -bobcatbessyassassin
I'm paying attention very closely, actually. That's why I know that you have literally never given a suggestion for improvement, only complained what is happening or isn't working. And I care deeply about the future hunting opportunities not only for my kids and grandkids, but for yours as well. That is exactly why I'm asking for ideas and solutions, yet you seem adamant that you're going to keep yours perfectly secret and not tell any of us for some reason?
I'm okay discussing big changes, even if I don't like them. I asked for 3, that seemed like too many so I dropped it to just 1. You didn't like that either. You say there are 50, let's hear 10 then. Heck, you decide...just give us something!!! Or just sit and complain with no solution to the problem, that usually works out really well. People listen to complainers. (Said nobody ever)
I've said for Years it would take MAJOR Changes to Bring the Deer Herd back to where they should be!
Not these little/STUPID changes we've seen that have FAILED for Decades!
I've said for Years there's at least 50 Reasons why the Deer Herd is Suffering & in POOR Shape!
Me Mentioning/Telling you just one Thing I'd do Ain't gonna Fix the Problem!
You act like a couple of Small Changes is gonna Fix everything!
Well it Won't!
It would Take some BIG Changes Niller!
Changes You wouldn't Like!
Do You Give a RAT'S ASS what Your Kids or Grand-Kids might be dealing with when they get old enough to Hunt?
Spike Bucks should be Trophies by then!? -bobcatbessyassassin
I'm paying attention very closely, actually. That's why I know that you have literally never given a suggestion for improvement, only complained what is happening or isn't working. And I care deeply about the future hunting opportunities not only for my kids and grandkids, but for yours as well. That is exactly why I'm asking for ideas and solutions, yet you seem adamant that you're going to keep yours perfectly secret and not tell any of us for some reason?
I'm okay discussing big changes, even if I don't like them. I asked for 3, that seemed like too many so I dropped it to just 1. You didn't like that either. You say there are 50, let's hear 10 then. Heck, you decide...just give us something!!! Or just sit and complain with no solution to the problem, that usually works out really well. People listen to complainers. (Said nobody ever)
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-19 AT 08:31AM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-19
>AT 07:53?AM (MST)
>
>?You Ain't Payin Attention again Niller!
>
>
>I've said for Years it would
>take MAJOR Changes to Bring
>the Deer Herd back to
>where they should be!
>
>Not these little/STUPID changes we've seen
>that have FAILED for Decades!
>
>
>I've said for Years there's at
>least 50 Reasons why the
>Deer Herd is Suffering &
>in POOR Shape!
>
>Me Mentioning/Telling you just one Thing
>I'd do Ain't gonna Fix
>the Problem!
>
>You act like a couple of
>Small Changes is gonna Fix
>everything!
>
>Well it Won't!
>
>It would Take some BIG Changes
>Niller!
>
>Changes You wouldn't Like!
>
>Do You Give a RAT'S ASS
>what Your Kids or Grand-Kids
>might be dealing with when
>they get old enough to
>Hunt?
>
>Spike Bucks should be Trophies by
>then!? -bobcatbessyassassin
>
>I'm paying attention very closely, actually.
>That's why I know that
>you have literally never given
>a suggestion for improvement, only
>complained what is happening or
>isn't working. And I care
>deeply about the future hunting
>opportunities not only for my
>kids and grandkids, but for
>yours as well. That is
>exactly why I'm asking for
>ideas and solutions, yet you
>seem adamant that you're going
>to keep yours perfectly secret
>and not tell any of
>us for some reason?
>
>I'm okay discussing big changes, even
>if I don't like them.
>I asked for 3, that
>seemed like too many so
>I dropped it to just
>1. You didn't like that
>either. You say there are
>50, let's hear 10 then.
> Heck, you decide...just give
>us something!!! Or just sit
>and complain with no solution
>to the problem, that usually
>works out really well. People
>listen to complainers. (Said nobody
>ever)
Hey Niller!
Yes!
I Said at Least 50 Reasons Why!
So let me ask you this:
Amateurs/People that are NOT Trained Biologists can see the Problems but Our Trained/Paid Employee's can Not?
I Guess I Should Not say they can't see it,Their Input is Reported & the WB & DWR over rides it I Guess?
You're alot like alot of others Niller!
You wanna Hear/Blame One Reason,or maybe 3!
I Could List the Top 3 Changes I'd Make and them 3 alone ain't enough,Plain & Simple!
DO YOU F'N UNDERSTAND?
We are Way Past Major Change Niller!
Do You Get that?
Sometime when I've got 1-2 Days Off I'm gonna Make a Write-Up/Thread on Here that alot of people Ain't gonna like!
You'd Best start thinking about your Kids & Grand-Kids Niller & Not in a Small way!
Most Kids Getting started in Today's Huntin World are Gonna say F'It,That BS Ain't For Me,Do You Blame them?
How'd that Last 5 Years of Deer Management Play out?
Did You SUCK the DWR's BS in when they were Boasting the Hunt was gonna be the Best in the Last 25 Years?
I'll Have BIG Changes on the List Most Opportunists Ain't gonna like & I Don't GAFF!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>AT 07:53?AM (MST)
>
>?You Ain't Payin Attention again Niller!
>
>
>I've said for Years it would
>take MAJOR Changes to Bring
>the Deer Herd back to
>where they should be!
>
>Not these little/STUPID changes we've seen
>that have FAILED for Decades!
>
>
>I've said for Years there's at
>least 50 Reasons why the
>Deer Herd is Suffering &
>in POOR Shape!
>
>Me Mentioning/Telling you just one Thing
>I'd do Ain't gonna Fix
>the Problem!
>
>You act like a couple of
>Small Changes is gonna Fix
>everything!
>
>Well it Won't!
>
>It would Take some BIG Changes
>Niller!
>
>Changes You wouldn't Like!
>
>Do You Give a RAT'S ASS
>what Your Kids or Grand-Kids
>might be dealing with when
>they get old enough to
>Hunt?
>
>Spike Bucks should be Trophies by
>then!? -bobcatbessyassassin
>
>I'm paying attention very closely, actually.
>That's why I know that
>you have literally never given
>a suggestion for improvement, only
>complained what is happening or
>isn't working. And I care
>deeply about the future hunting
>opportunities not only for my
>kids and grandkids, but for
>yours as well. That is
>exactly why I'm asking for
>ideas and solutions, yet you
>seem adamant that you're going
>to keep yours perfectly secret
>and not tell any of
>us for some reason?
>
>I'm okay discussing big changes, even
>if I don't like them.
>I asked for 3, that
>seemed like too many so
>I dropped it to just
>1. You didn't like that
>either. You say there are
>50, let's hear 10 then.
> Heck, you decide...just give
>us something!!! Or just sit
>and complain with no solution
>to the problem, that usually
>works out really well. People
>listen to complainers. (Said nobody
>ever)
Hey Niller!
Yes!
I Said at Least 50 Reasons Why!
So let me ask you this:
Amateurs/People that are NOT Trained Biologists can see the Problems but Our Trained/Paid Employee's can Not?
I Guess I Should Not say they can't see it,Their Input is Reported & the WB & DWR over rides it I Guess?
You're alot like alot of others Niller!
You wanna Hear/Blame One Reason,or maybe 3!
I Could List the Top 3 Changes I'd Make and them 3 alone ain't enough,Plain & Simple!
DO YOU F'N UNDERSTAND?
We are Way Past Major Change Niller!
Do You Get that?
Sometime when I've got 1-2 Days Off I'm gonna Make a Write-Up/Thread on Here that alot of people Ain't gonna like!
You'd Best start thinking about your Kids & Grand-Kids Niller & Not in a Small way!
Most Kids Getting started in Today's Huntin World are Gonna say F'It,That BS Ain't For Me,Do You Blame them?
How'd that Last 5 Years of Deer Management Play out?
Did You SUCK the DWR's BS in when they were Boasting the Hunt was gonna be the Best in the Last 25 Years?
I'll Have BIG Changes on the List Most Opportunists Ain't gonna like & I Don't GAFF!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
>I'll be waiting with bated breath
>for this post. At least
>then I'll be able to
>decide if I agree with
>you on this or not.
>
Fair Enough Niller!
It's Gonna Be Long!
It'll Burn some of Founders BandWidth Guaranteed!
And Alot of Opportunists/Joe Blow Hunters/PISSCUTTER Pounders Ain't gonna like the Plan!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>for this post. At least
>then I'll be able to
>decide if I agree with
>you on this or not.
>
Fair Enough Niller!
It's Gonna Be Long!
It'll Burn some of Founders BandWidth Guaranteed!
And Alot of Opportunists/Joe Blow Hunters/PISSCUTTER Pounders Ain't gonna like the Plan!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
>I pride myself as the best
>2-point deer hunter in the
>state, but I'll keep an
>open mind.
But what about the Big Buck Niller?
Wouldn't You have a Good Feeling knowing there was at least a Chance at a Buck like yours in all Units?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>2-point deer hunter in the
>state, but I'll keep an
>open mind.
But what about the Big Buck Niller?
Wouldn't You have a Good Feeling knowing there was at least a Chance at a Buck like yours in all Units?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 39,717
>Not sure anymore. He?s 34? wide
>on the dot though.
>
>Proof that anyone can get lucky
>and kill a wiley old
>muley if I can do
>it!
Not if there Ain't any of them around left to Hunt Niller!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>on the dot though.
>
>Proof that anyone can get lucky
>and kill a wiley old
>muley if I can do
>it!
Not if there Ain't any of them around left to Hunt Niller!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,500
Oh, you just have to quit taking your SxS off tall he trails and up all the ridges you are looking from!
RAZZIN YA BESS!
Back to the larger topic: we need better information if we're going to make better decisions with our wildlife, particularly deer. I'm more interested in getting the accurate picture right now than prescribing the fix. I don't know if we really know the problems, and to what extent they are problems.
RAZZIN YA BESS!
Back to the larger topic: we need better information if we're going to make better decisions with our wildlife, particularly deer. I'm more interested in getting the accurate picture right now than prescribing the fix. I don't know if we really know the problems, and to what extent they are problems.
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