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Cows on the forest

Those ranchers and Farmer that have grain lands next to the Mtns when snow hit's they winter most game animals that live on that mountain they run their cattle and sheep. NOW if they shoot every deer & elk that come into their fields what would the end result be. dang few animals would be around come spring. Trading fields of feed for mtn grazing is the trade off. NOW that being said some ranchers and Farmers are Greedy Ass but more are not.
Now I would like to see more private land open for hunting but that door swings both ways IF a hunter is a slob it kills private land being open.
I hunt alot private lands by getting permission months ahead of time by doing work in the summer for them. Some of you should try it.
 
BuzzH said:
So you don't think one rancher having to either:

1. raise his cattle entirely on private.
2. pay private land AUM rates.

Is at any disadvantage to another rancher that pays $1.35-$1.40 a month per AUM on a federal lease?

Which rancher has the highest cost per pound to raise a beef, the guy paying $1.35 an AUM or someone paying $10-$20 an AUM on private or state?

Not in every case is grazing beneficial to the landscape, and that's just a simple fact. To claim otherwise is nonsense.

Also if your position is that "ranchers don't need the government" than ask them to either stop leasing federal lands, or at the very least to pay comparable lease rates to private and state. Also ask them to quit feeding their cattle with subsidized corn, etc. Also ask them to do away with APHIS predator control, that tax payers pay for. Or meat inspectors, or....the list goes on and on.

I would contend you've not done a fair and balanced amount of research either.

Cant cherry pick the favorable things the .gov does for your business and then howl about the things that you don't agree with and maintain any kind of credibility.

I think there needs to be adjustments in many of the grazing programs, meat processing, regulations on foreign markets like you brought up, etc. but again, you can't broad brush on the one hand, cherry pick on the other.
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First of all never once did I say it was always beneficial. I have always contended that it could be if done correctly. It has the same positive
Impacts as proper fire use and control. So go back again and show me where I said always good. I however will always stand behind the idea they the government has done far more harm to our ranchers and producers than is made up by the low leasing fees.

However the cost of a grazing fee really has nothing to do with the question at hand… Do cows belong on public lands? Can they be grazed and benefit people and the land? We could debate the cost of an amu and what that could look like, but it does not change the basis of the question….

So I stand firmly behind the idea that regulated grazing by ranchers is a net benefit to the land, net benefit to the public…

Again my claim on the government is that as with nearly every aspect of our lives the government increases the burden on the citizens and does not typically make our lives better… Hell I can’t trust the government to to regulate a gas can… Let alone make meaningful informed decisions about the economy, imports, health care, or any other plethora of issues…
 
Gator said:
Those ranchers and Farmer that have grain lands next to the Mtns when snow hit's they winter most game animals that live on that mountain they run their cattle and sheep. NOW if they shoot every deer & elk that come into their fields what would the end result be. dang few animals would be around come spring. Trading fields of feed for mtn grazing is the trade off. NOW that being said some ranchers and Farmers are Greedy Ass but more are not.
Now I would like to see more private land open for hunting but that door swings both ways IF a hunter is a slob it kills private land being open.
I hunt alot private lands by getting permission months ahead of time by doing work in the summer for them. Some of you should try it.
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Right… I love how one sided people see this issue…
 
elks96 said:
First of all never once did I say it was always beneficial. I have always contended that it could be if done correctly. It has the same positive
Impacts as proper fire use and control. So go back again and show me where I said always good. I however will always stand behind the idea they the government has done far more harm to our ranchers and producers than is made up by the low leasing fees.

However the cost of a grazing fee really has nothing to do with the question at hand… Do cows belong on public lands? Can they be grazed and benefit people and the land? We could debate the cost of an amu and what that could look like, but it does not change the basis of the question….

So I stand firmly behind the idea that regulated grazing by ranchers is a net benefit to the land, net benefit to the public…

Again my claim on the government is that as with nearly every aspect of our lives the government increases the burden on the citizens and does not typically make our lives better… Hell I can’t trust the government to to regulate a gas can… Let alone make meaningful informed decisions about the economy, imports, health care, or any other plethora of issues…
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You're not being honest.

A subsidized grazer impacts his neighbor who has to pay full boat, end of story.

The government has done harm by offering a privilege/advantage to some and not others...and that isn't limited to grazing.

No regulation is not the answer, that simply does not work. That is unless robber barons, polluters, rivers that you can light on fire, wildlife market hunted to about extinction, etc. etc. is your bag.
 
tailchasers said:
Easier to import beef from other countries cuz we continually increase regulation whether its on private or public lands. Want more Brazilian or Argentine beef then keep imposing more restrictions. Keeping cattle off public lands is just one more step closer to national dependence.
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I wish this was true.
 
Gator said:
Those ranchers and Farmer that have grain lands next to the Mtns when snow hit's they winter most game animals that live on that mountain they run their cattle and sheep. NOW if they shoot every deer & elk that come into their fields what would the end result be. dang few animals would be around come spring. Trading fields of feed for mtn grazing is the trade off. NOW that being said some ranchers and Farmers are Greedy Ass but more are not.
Now I would like to see more private land open for hunting but that door swings both ways IF a hunter is a slob it kills private land being open.
I hunt alot private lands by getting permission months ahead of time by doing work in the summer for them. Some of you should try it.
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That sounds really great, it really does. But these same ranchers that public land graze b**** when elk and deer are on their property.

I’m not naive to the importance of private land to help sustain our big game herds but it doesn’t change my personal opinion of public land grazing.

Don’t kid yourself about ranchers. Very few are on the side of hunters. The likelihood of them being on the side of the hunters is mainly due to the financial payout of some type due to wildlife.
 
Cattle have been grazing on our "public land" since the 1880's, and now they are the problem to the decline in deer herds? Poor management in specific areas, by specific ranchers should not be how we perceive all public land cattlemen. But it's easy and lazy to make an argument that all cattle on public ground is bad, and ranchers should stay off of your forest.
 
Ranching is a business. Of course they are interested in their financial success. What has always amazed me is the number of them that DO allow hunting. What they hate are people who don't respect their operation- either pushing their cattle off water, or leaving gates open, or trashing their property. Or occasionally worse- as others threaten or actually do.

That said- surely there are those with no tolerance of hunters. But I won't broad brush them as bad for hunting.
 
I do wonder what turns some rancher to not let a soul on his place, could it be ruts out in a field someone driving across a field that hasn't been baled dead animals or shot up machine's maybe the signs that say keep off.
Do you really think they wake up one morning and say from now on I'm not going to allow any hunters on my land. Because I know alot ranchers and farmer who use to let hunters on and no longer will became the things I wrote has and did happen to them.
My family have alot of land, So 1st hand knowledge is what know and heard from those ranchers and framers.

Bet A bunch show opening day to ask the guy Hey can I hunt, Farmer says NO he never meet the hunter before, never had stop and help him a for a day and never took the time
see if there was something they could to repay him for let you hunt.
Heck I hope all those ranchers and farmers say HELL NO. Because I don't mind working with a few day to get the opportunity to ask them if i can hunt on their land.

You might even work for it and not get it.
Might take a few tries to get the ok.

I know it works because I have done several times.
 
The negatives far outweigh the positives when it comes to public land grazing. Majority rules so it’s time for it to end. It doesn’t matter how long it’s been going on, it’s time for it to go. Slavery went on for a long time and took a war to get rid of. Deer and elk are the slaves to the cattle industry. It’s a god damn shame.

Shoot a cow. Plow some sheep with your truck. All in the name of conservation! The deer elk and bighorn sheep will rejoice! ?? ??
 
Gator said:
I do wonder what turns some rancher to not let a soul on his place, could it be ruts out in a field someone driving across a field that hasn't been baled dead animals or shot up machine's maybe the signs that say keep off.
Do you really think they wake up one morning and say from now on I'm not going to allow any hunters on my land. Because I know alot ranchers and farmer who use to let hunters on and no longer will became the things I wrote has and did happen to them.
My family have alot of land, So 1st hand knowledge is what know and heard from those ranchers and framers.

Bet A bunch show opening day to ask the guy Hey can I hunt, Farmer says NO he never meet the hunter before, never had stop and help him a for a day and never took the time
see if there was something they could to repay him for let you hunt.
Heck I hope all those ranchers and farmers say HELL NO. Because I don't mind working with a few day to get the opportunity to ask them if i can hunt on their land.

You might even work for it and not get it.
Might take a few tries to get the ok.

I know it works because I have done several times.
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Who gives a flying **** about hunting private land? It’s real simple gator, they keep their cows on private land and I’ll stay on public. **** those cry baby sissy la la welfare ranchers.
 
Yep guys like SS is why you would be allowed on that land.
Thanks for letting us have that land for ourselves. Don't have to worry about U getting on any.
 
Guess those elk and deer don't need those fields they feed in during the winter. H$LL yes kill them all SS. WOW smart thinking.
 
Gator said:
Guess those elk and deer don't need those fields they feed in during the winter. H$LL yes kill them all SS. WOW smart thinking.
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They get forced to them because the cows and sheep have ate all the feed on public land.

If the ranchers don’t want them in their field put a fence up. Guess what the govt has helped ranchers pay for the fences.

MAGA! Kill every cow and sheep you see on public land!
 
I guess it don't snow in the mountain in the winter where you live. No deep snow.
HOLY $HIT you must live in Hawaii.
 
hossblur said:
For those that haven't noticed, agriculture is a national defense issue.

After Covid, and seeing how vulnerable we were to China for everything, it's not a great idea, to be dependent on other nations for food.

Just watch the famine this winter as Russia shuts down Ukraine exports
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Agreed agriculture is a national defense issue but the lack of or minimization of cattle grazing on public land isn't going to create a problem or lack of food for that matter. It can be offset in so many ways that using national defense or lack of food as a reason to keep overgrazing is laughable. There are many better arguments to be made for public grazing than what you just mentioned.
 
littlebighorn said:
Domestic sheep are absolute DEATH to wild sheep. They carry ovipneumoniae which regularly wipes out wild sheep herds. As a big fan of wild sheep, I always smile when I see cows instead of mountain maggots on public land.
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If it wasn't for wool clothing, buckaroo rodeos and Gyro sandwiches I would be all for eliminating the species (domestic sheep that is) or keeping them in South America only.
 
deadibob said:
If it wasn't for wool clothing, buckaroo rodeos and Gyro sandwiches I would be all for eliminating the species (domestic sheep that is) or keeping them in South America only.
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Quit subsidizing the sheep industry and import wool and meat...problem solved.
 
Buzz
You do know why they subsidize the wool growers don't you?
I understand you don't mind propping up other countries economies while destroying our local agricultural, industry and small buisnesses.
 
Last edited:
notdonhunting said:
Buzz
You do know why they subsidize the wool growers don't you?
I understand you don't mind propping up other countries economies while destroying our local agricultural, industry and small buisnesses.
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I don't mind propping up small family farms/business...too bad they don't receive anything but the crumbs.
 
notdonhunting said:
Buzz
You do know why they subsidize the wool growers don't you?
I understand you don't mind propping up other countries economies while destroying our local agricultural, industry and small buisnesses.
Click to expand...
lol....he doesn't care why.....as long as his taxpayer paid lump gets auto deposited on time....
 
Homer said:
lol....he doesn't care why.....as long as his taxpayer paid lump gets auto deposited on time....
Click to expand...
farm.ewg.org

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database put the issue on the map and is driving reform. Just ten percent of America's largest and richest farms collect almost three-fourths of federal farm subsidies; cash payments that often harm the environment.
farm.ewg.org farm.ewg.org

Right, educate yourself.
 
notdonhunting said:
Buzz
You do know why they subsidize the wool growers don't you?
I understand you don't mind propping up other countries economies while destroying our local agricultural, industry and small buisnesses.
Click to expand...
Poor family California farmers..

farm.ewg.org

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database put the issue on the map and is driving reform. Just ten percent of America's largest and richest farms collect almost three-fourths of federal farm subsidies; cash payments that often harm the environment.
farm.ewg.org farm.ewg.org
 
notdonhunting said:
Buzz
You do know why they subsidize the wool growers don't you?
I understand you don't mind propping up other countries economies while destroying our local agricultural, industry and small buisnesses.
Click to expand...

Oh look "family farms and small business"

farm.ewg.org

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database put the issue on the map and is driving reform. Just ten percent of America's largest and richest farms collect almost three-fourths of federal farm subsidies; cash payments that often harm the environment.
farm.ewg.org farm.ewg.org
 
Ya this topic is like beating a dead horse. No middle ground, one side or thee other. Their is good and bad to both sides. And depending on the shades of glasses or wallet or the Me generation. You won’t find the common ground.
 
BuzzH said:
Oh look "family farms and small business"

farm.ewg.org

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database put the issue on the map and is driving reform. Just ten percent of America's largest and richest farms collect almost three-fourths of federal farm subsidies; cash payments that often harm the environment.
farm.ewg.org farm.ewg.org
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The wool subsidy is paid by the amount of wool produced, don't matter small or big they all get a cut
 
pounder said:
Ya this topic is like beating a dead horse. No middle ground, one side or thee other. Their is good and bad to both sides. And depending on the shades of glasses or wallet or the Me generation. You won’t find the common ground.
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If you say you wont find common ground then you probably wont
 
BuzzH said:
farm.ewg.org

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database put the issue on the map and is driving reform. Just ten percent of America's largest and richest farms collect almost three-fourths of federal farm subsidies; cash payments that often harm the environment.
farm.ewg.org farm.ewg.org

Right, educate yourself.
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I probably shouldn’t have clicked on that trump subsidy link. No wonder all my neighbors got a trump sign with their new superduty’s. :oops:
 
Man, I got nothing- no subsidies, no PPP, no good freebies, no state give-backs. Unless you count that Trump gave me a free shot in the arm- and Biden gave me inflation. I gotta get me some marginalized status going somehow!
 
Bluehair said:
I probably shouldn’t have clicked on that trump subsidy link. No wonder all my neighbors got a trump sign with their new superduty’s. :oops:
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You are correct. That is brutal.

But the way i see it, those people needed the help. They obviously cant make it on their own. They need their fellow americans to pay for their businesses and families. And that makes me proud to be able help all my needy countrymen. If they cant pay for themselves they can have a seat and people like you and i can pick up their slack. They are needy and just cant hack it, begging for rescue.
 
Grouse Legs said:
You are correct. That is brutal.

But the way i see it, those people needed the help. They obviously cant make it on their own. They need their fellow americans to pay for their businesses and families. And that makes me proud to be able help all my needy countrymen. If they cant pay for themselves they can have a seat and people like you and i can pick up their slack. They are needy and just cant hack it, begging for rescue.
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I appreciate good sarcasm (y)

Food security and agriculture are two different things. There are plenty of opportunities to help family farms. Try getting a finished product on a supermarket shelf as a place to start looking.
 
BuzzH said:
Oh look "family farms and small business"

farm.ewg.org

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database put the issue on the map and is driving reform. Just ten percent of America's largest and richest farms collect almost three-fourths of federal farm subsidies; cash payments that often harm the environment.
farm.ewg.org farm.ewg.org
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Buzz You should know WE don't have deer here. LOL
 
pounder said:
Ya this topic is like beating a dead horse. No middle ground, one side or thee other. Their is good and bad to both sides. And depending on the shades of glasses or wallet or the Me generation. You won’t find the common ground.
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Is the dead horse a feral horse? If so **** yeah!
 
plenty of people profit off of public lands, like outfitters, loggers, etc. just cause you hunt doesn't mean that you aren't a liberal tree hugger. even if you don't realize it. don't be too dumb to realize that ranchers do more for wildlife than probably all of you. they aren't the enemy. yeah there's always exceptions but most are good folks. watch out for the rich city people who are buying lots of land. many of those are the enemy.
 
I know who profits off of public land, as I'm sure most here do..

My point was your correlation was maybe top five dumbest I've seen here. Even though you were probably being sarcastic or facetious.

Most ranchers only do what's required for the land or wildlife or what benefits them the most as ranchers. They're businessmen, and it should be expected. And that's okay. Great in fact if it benefits the land and its resources.

The fact is there is a faction of the group that are at least blissfully ignorant of if not woefully shameless of the fact they are damaging the land and its resources. The number is probably much larger than any rancher or supporter thereof would admit and much smaller than any opponent would admit.

A businessman from the city can be just as good (or bad) of a person and steward of the land as a businessman/rancher from the sticks.
 
Ropinfool said:
plenty of people profit off of public lands, like outfitters, loggers, etc. just cause you hunt doesn't mean that you aren't a liberal tree hugger. even if you don't realize it. don't be too dumb to realize that ranchers do more for wildlife than probably all of you. they aren't the enemy. yeah there's always exceptions but most are good folks. watch out for the rich city people who are buying lots of land. many of those are the enemy.
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2nd stupidest post ever. Go for the trifecta.
 
Ranchers are a sick bunch. They like rodeos which basically is watching animal cruelty in person. Let’s force this animal to be uncomfortable so we can watch it run in circles. Let’s chase them down and rope them. Let’s grab that steer by the horns and throw it on the ground.

Nope.
 
Ropinfool said:
SS, why are you on this site? clearly you don't belong. you sound like a pita cup cake.
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Says the guy that never contributes. Did your lazy ass ever find another job? Or you still living off those high unemployment checks New Mexico was giving out?

You would be a good rancher, living off the govt tit…
 
SS! said:
Says the guy that never contributes. Did your lazy ass ever find another job? Or you still living off those high unemployment checks New Mexico was giving out?

You would be a good rancher, living off the govt tit…
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Hey you!!!! Don’t be mean to those livestock animals who were bred for that purpose. Never mind me while I shoot this wild critter……….lmao.
 
Here is some interesting numbers. From the state of Nevada:

1985 -
610,000 Cattle
100,000 Sheep
240,000 mule deer

2021 -
244,000 Cattle
60,000 sheep
90,000 mule deer

I am fairly certain cattle and sheep are not the reason your hunting skills suck. It has a lot to do with water, feral horses and the damn BLM being a huge part of the political machine...
 
mta5672 said:
Here is some interesting numbers. From the state of Nevada:

1985 -
610,000 Cattle
100,000 Sheep
240,000 mule deer

2021 -
244,000 Cattle
60,000 sheep
90,000 mule deer

I am fairly certain cattle and sheep are not the reason your hunting skills suck. It has a lot to do with water, feral horses and the damn BLM being a huge part of the political machine...
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What’s so interesting about those numbers? Seems like 244,000 too many cows on public land.

Go back to “guiding” your private land deer hunts where you drive around in the truck and go glass a coulee. Then hustle back to the truck to eat jelly filled donuts. Step in cow patties all you want cuz you’re on private. I don’t care.

But let me be free on public where I don’t have to see, smell or step in cow chit. Let me hunt wild places without seeing a stinking cow. Or at the very least let me gut shoot it and do the world a favor!
 
mta5672 said:
Here is some interesting numbers. From the state of Nevada:

1985 -
610,000 Cattle
100,000 Sheep
240,000 mule deer

2021 -
244,000 Cattle
60,000 sheep
90,000 mule deer

I am fairly certain cattle and sheep are not the reason your hunting skills suck. It has a lot to do with water, feral horses and the damn BLM being a huge part of the political machine...
Click to expand...
You left out
The population explosion of man.
Building on muledeer winter grounds.
Technology (covers a lot)
ATV’s & SxS’s
Etc
Etc
Etc
And those damn land maggots (sheep)
????
 
I was merely pointing out that during the golden years in Nevada there was more than double the number of cattle grazing. I grew up in Spring Valley, that winter range had thousands of deer on the benches during winter and it also had thousands of cattle.

Lots of very big deer were killed every year back then and not a peep from anybody about cattle. Im typing this staring a 200+ inch deer I killed there in '91 while gathering cattle.

But keep being a tough guy, you impress us more and more every day SS.
 
LIK2HNT said:
You left out
The population explosion of man.
Building on muledeer winter grounds.
Technology (covers a lot)
ATV’s & SxS’s
Etc
Etc
Etc
And those damn land maggots (sheep)
Click to expand...
Thats the point I was trying to make, it damn sure isnt public land grazing's fault. I actually did include sheep!
 
mta5672 said:
I was merely pointing out that during the golden years in Nevada there was more than double the number of cattle grazing. I grew up in Spring Valley, that winter range had thousands of deer on the benches during winter and it also had thousands of cattle.

Lots of very big deer were killed every year back then and not a peep from anybody about cattle. Im typing this staring a 200+ inch deer I killed there in '91 while gathering cattle.

But keep being a tough guy, you impress us more and more every day SS.
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And I’m pointing out that times have changed, there’s way more limited habitat and so it’s time for cows to go where they belong, private land!

What does 200” deer have anything to do with cattle on public land? Or the health of the deer herd? Nothing.

I’ve never claimed to be a tough guy but I see I hurt your feelings. That was not my intention. I’m sorry you are so emotional, maybe my post is at the wrong time of month for you.
 
SS Or could it be that you just plain suck and think you was the smart kid in your class.
Telling anyone to kill cattle and sheep was a stupid remark. Period shows that you not as smart as you think.
So have a wonderful day hope you find a helpful person to walk ya across the street so you don't get ran over. May your monthly be short but painful.
 
Gator said:
SS Or could it be that you just plain suck and think you was the smart kid in your class.
Telling anyone to kill cattle and sheep was a stupid remark. Period shows that you not as smart as you think.
So have a wonderful day hope you find a helpful person to walk ya across the street so you don't get ran over. May your monthly be short but painful.
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Go back to doing chores for the ranchers (on your knees) so you can hunt their private land.

I’ll stick to public
 
to segway from personal attacks….

what do you think the impact of a particular area/ stream meadow would be if say 100 head of cows grazed it verse say 100 head of elk?

it something i thought about hunting last weekend. i was amazed at the nice elk trails beat into the land scape by the elk.
 
Rie bread said:
to segway from personal attacks….

what do you think the impact of a particular area/ stream meadow would be if say 100 head of cows grazed it verse say 100 head of elk?

it something i thought about hunting last weekend. i was amazed at the nice elk trails beat into the land scape by the elk.
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....I always wonder what it looked like after a million Bison went through.....?
 
Rie bread said:
to segway from personal attacks….

what do you think the impact of a particular area/ stream meadow would be if say 100 head of cows grazed it verse say 100 head of elk?

it something i thought about hunting last weekend. i was amazed at the nice elk trails beat into the land scape by the elk.
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A cow weighs on average 1400 pounds. An elk weighs on average, what, 500 pounds? So I'd guess about 1/3 the impact.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
A cow weighs on average 1400 pounds. An elk weighs on average, what, 500 pounds? So I'd guess about 1/3 the impact.
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Probably even less impact than that.

Cattle are lazy and park in riparian areas/wet meadows and don't move across the landscape like elk.

Pretty rare to see elk spend all day in a wet meadow, bedded feeding, standing around. Not unusual to see cattle do it day after day after day.

Good point on the weight of the animals though, definitely increases disturbance and soil compaction.

Impacts from grazing are timing, duration, and intensity driven.
 
The erosion and riparian damage is night and day elk vs bovine. Beef chit hangs on the kennetreks little more and I’ve yet to see some ones truck plastered in elk chit at the car wash. There’s a lot of utah BLM allotments that carrying capacity haven’t changed much even with decades of drought.
 
BuzzH said:
Probably even less impact than that.

Cattle are lazy and park in riparian areas/wet meadows and don't move across the landscape like elk.

Pretty rare to see elk spend all day in a wet meadow, bedded feeding, standing around. Not unusual to see cattle do it day after day after day.

Good point on the weight of the animals though, definitely increases disturbance and soil compaction.

Impacts from grazing are timing, duration, and intensity driven.
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yeah that’s kinda what i was thinking. the elk seem to move around. not to say cows don’t, but they sure love sticking to water.

bank erosion from cows it’s a big issue in native heritage trout habitat across the west
 
Boy, SS or menso/enso really gets fired up. oh well it's easy to be tuff on the internet. I know that ranchers have done more for the environment and wildlife than most if not all other groups who use our public lands. i don't think ive seen any hikers, bikers, and hunters who build or maintain water sources that all animals use. yes i've seen outfitters do a lot on private land. I know in NM the amount of people in the mountains on atv's has increased ten fold over the past decade. they have made roads everywhere and of course you see litter. personally, i don't like seeing the atv's, hikers, and bikers all over the mountains, but it's not my right to kick them off. they have every right to be there, just like ranchers. and in most cases, the ranchers have been there longer. hey it works for the indians.
 
30 or 40 years ago less ATV, Dirt Bike, jeep and just old hiking trails for sure have grown lots more people on them now days BUT i guess SS since you say it cattle and sheep you have to be 100% correct. Here your Sign.
Got any pictures of the huge trophy tame sheep and cows you have shot. LOL
My family DOESN'T use BLM or FS lands they raise them(cows) up on lease land or their own land we just live to far from those Mtn and Blm lands.
SS did you get a moment where your feeling was like hurt. I'm sorry that we hurt those girl like feeling that you are having since it must be your time of the month that you always are talking about.
Most hunters talk hunting. But not you it all about is the time of the month.
 
ranchers are lazy and completely dependent on BLM welfare. theirs no one out there moving cows to make sure its not over grazed. they decimate everywhere they put their cattle, act like they own it, then when theirs nothing left for them to eat move them to the next spot to decimate it. real stewards now a days
 
Ropinfool said:
Boy, SS or menso/enso really gets fired up. oh well it's easy to be tuff on the internet. I know that ranchers have done more for the environment and wildlife than most if not all other groups who use our public lands. i don't think ive seen any hikers, bikers, and hunters who build or maintain water sources that all animals use. yes i've seen outfitters do a lot on private land. I know in NM the amount of people in the mountains on atv's has increased ten fold over the past decade. they have made roads everywhere and of course you see litter. personally, i don't like seeing the atv's, hikers, and bikers all over the mountains, but it's not my right to kick them off. they have every right to be there, just like ranchers. and in most cases, the ranchers have been there longer. hey it works for the indians.
Click to expand...
You could likely see if you were not so closed minded.
 
When I moved to AZ I had about 10 jokes I used purely for self-deprecation and thus survival. Most of them included a line like "th-a-a-a-ats my d-a-a-ad".
 
SS! said:
What’s so interesting about those numbers? Seems like 244,000 too many cows on public land.

Go back to “guiding” your private land deer hunts where you drive around in the truck and go glass a coulee. Then hustle back to the truck to eat jelly filled donuts. Step in cow patties all you want cuz you’re on private. I don’t care.

But let me be free on public where I don’t have to see, smell or step in cow chit. Let me hunt wild places without seeing a stinking cow. Or at the very least let me gut shoot it and do the world a favor!
Click to expand...
Wouldn't gut shooting a cow be cruel? Are you for being cruel to animals or not?
 
Hunter21 said:
Wouldn't gut shooting a cow be cruel? Are you for being cruel to animals or not?
Click to expand...
Rodeos are making the animals suffer for entertainment.

Gut shooting a cow is for legal purposes. You do not want them to find a bullet. There’s no entertainment value at all in it, if you do you’re a sick sob.
“ Gut shooting a cow on public land is conservation“ - Donald trump

“Cows should be on public la—- look a bird ”. - joe Biden
 
SS! said:
Rodeos are making the animals suffer for entertainment.

Gut shooting a cow is for legal purposes. You do not want them to find a bullet. There’s no entertainment value at all in it, if you do you’re a sick sob.
“ Gut shooting a cow on public land is conservation“ - Donald trump

“Cows should be on public la—- look a bird ”. - joe Biden
Click to expand...
So cruelty to animals is cool as long as it’s not for entertainment? I understand now, thanks
 
SS! said:
Rodeos are making the animals suffer for entertainment.

Gut shooting a cow is for legal purposes. You do not want them to find a bullet. There’s no entertainment value at all in it, if you do you’re a sick sob.
“ Gut shooting a cow on public land is conservation“ - Donald trump

“Cows should be on public la—- look a bird ”. - joe Biden
Click to expand...
You should get into fishing. You seem to get a bite on every cast. Lmao.
 
Hunter21 said:
So cruelty to animals is cool as long as it’s not for entertainment? I understand now, thanks
Click to expand...
I do not condone cruelty to animals. If you support rodeos you do. Does t necessarily make you a bad person.

Believing public land ranchers as a whole care about hunting or wildlife makes you a bad person.
 
SS! said:
I do not condone cruelty to animals. If you support rodeos you do. Does t necessarily make you a bad person.

Believing public land ranchers as a whole care about hunting or wildlife makes you a bad person.
Click to expand...
SS! said:
Finally you caught on. You’re a slow learner.
Click to expand...
Yeah I guess I am. Just don’t really find it funny to tell people to gut shoot cows, just seems ignorant to me. Loved your Moose hunt adventure I read a while back. Great write up and congratulations on a great moose. Looks like it was a lot of fun and a ton of hard work. Well deserved!! I lost my dad about the same time and it brought a tear to my eye, hope all is well ?
 
W
Gator said:
30 or 40 years ago less ATV, Dirt Bike, jeep and just old hiking trails for sure have grown lots more people on them now days BUT i guess SS since you say it cattle and sheep you have to be 100% correct. Here your Sign.
Got any pictures of the huge trophy tame sheep and cows you have shot. LOL
My family DOESN'T use BLM or FS lands they raise them(cows) up on lease land or their own land we just live to far from those Mtn and Blm lands.
SS did you get a moment where your feeling was like hurt. I'm sorry that we hurt those girl like feeling that you are having since it must be your time of the month that you always are talking about.
Most hunters talk hunting. But not you it all about is the time of the month.
Click to expand...
What state does your family raise cows in?
 
Ropinfool said:
Boy, SS or menso/enso really gets fired up. oh well it's easy to be tuff on the internet. I know that ranchers have done more for the environment and wildlife than most if not all other groups who use our public lands. i don't think ive seen any hikers, bikers, and hunters who build or maintain water sources that all animals use. yes i've seen outfitters do a lot on private land. I know in NM the amount of people in the mountains on atv's has increased ten fold over the past decade. they have made roads everywhere and of course you see litter. personally, i don't like seeing the atv's, hikers, and bikers all over the mountains, but it's not my right to kick them off. they have every right to be there, just like ranchers. and in most cases, the ranchers have been there longer. hey it works for the indians.
Click to expand...
What else do ranchers do for the environment and wildlife besides building and maintaining water sources?
 
JPickett said:
ranchers are lazy and completely dependent on BLM welfare. theirs no one out there moving cows to make sure its not over grazed. they decimate everywhere they put their cattle, act like they own it, then when theirs nothing left for them to eat move them to the next spot to decimate it. real stewards now a days
Click to expand...
Could you please explain BLM welfare?
 
SS! said:
I do not condone cruelty to animals. If you support rodeos you do. Does t necessarily make you a bad person.

Believing public land ranchers as a whole care about hunting or wildlife makes you a bad person.
Click to expand...
What part of rodeo is cruel Karen?
 

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