I'm still trying to figure out why, if an animal doesn't see, hear or smell me (kinda the point in hunting) why the Hell it matters if one kills it at 100 yards or 800. And the assumption that all guys that practice LR are no good, unethical, lazy hunters, or not hunters at all, is typical of those that do not or will not understand. As I said, it is that condescending air of superiority from those that disagreee that will have a bigger and more destructive impact on hunting than what kind of scope a guy has on his rifle. mtmuley
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wildsage
Guest
I have been reading the posts and have even joined a couple of times knowing that this post will end up like the one about ATV's - nothing will come out of it from us here on MM except on the ATV post the Cat did get removed from posting. We still have ATV's running around the hunt areas and will most likely have long range shooters blasting as well. What will most likely happen is that the future (and due to my age, I will most likely be gone),will determine what will happen with our hunting rights. I can tell you that those who choose to NOT use trail cams, ATV's, long range shooting, food plots, scent sprays, and high fence hunting will not be responsible if there is decline in hunting rights. Keep on with all this new fangled crap and see where it ends.
It has been interesting to see the different views on this subject.
Wildsage
It has been interesting to see the different views on this subject.
Wildsage
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HunterX
Guest
>I'm still trying to figure out
>why, if an animal doesn't
>see, hear or smell me
>(kinda the point in hunting)
>why the Hell it matters
>if one kills it at
>100 yards or 800. And
>the assumption that all guys
>that practice LR are no
>good, unethical, lazy hunters, or
>not hunters at all, is
>typical of those that do
>not or will not understand.
>As I said, it is
>that condescending air of superiority
>from those that disagreee that
>will have a bigger and
>more destructive impact on hunting
>than what kind of scope
>a guy has on his
>rifle. mtmuley
Please don't assume that all guys that are against LR hunting think that LR hunters are "no
good, unethical, lazy hunters, or
not hunters at all." I for one know how much time and effort that goes into being a proficient LR hunter.
Also just because a guy is against LR hunt doesn't mean he's against all the new high tech hunting toys we have out now days. I love my rangefinder and new fancy fully multicoated optics! Some people here have pointed out that one of the worst things we can do is be divided which I do believe to an extent but we can't agree on everything. On topics like this we'll definitely never agree on and these are the ones that will divide us. Shouldn't there be some compromise of some sort? There are people on both sides of the argument that don't seem to want to budge not even one inch on the subject.
Btw nice story one dryboot did you post a pic of that buck somewhere online I'd like to see it.
>why, if an animal doesn't
>see, hear or smell me
>(kinda the point in hunting)
>why the Hell it matters
>if one kills it at
>100 yards or 800. And
>the assumption that all guys
>that practice LR are no
>good, unethical, lazy hunters, or
>not hunters at all, is
>typical of those that do
>not or will not understand.
>As I said, it is
>that condescending air of superiority
>from those that disagreee that
>will have a bigger and
>more destructive impact on hunting
>than what kind of scope
>a guy has on his
>rifle. mtmuley
Please don't assume that all guys that are against LR hunting think that LR hunters are "no
good, unethical, lazy hunters, or
not hunters at all." I for one know how much time and effort that goes into being a proficient LR hunter.
Also just because a guy is against LR hunt doesn't mean he's against all the new high tech hunting toys we have out now days. I love my rangefinder and new fancy fully multicoated optics! Some people here have pointed out that one of the worst things we can do is be divided which I do believe to an extent but we can't agree on everything. On topics like this we'll definitely never agree on and these are the ones that will divide us. Shouldn't there be some compromise of some sort? There are people on both sides of the argument that don't seem to want to budge not even one inch on the subject.
Btw nice story one dryboot did you post a pic of that buck somewhere online I'd like to see it.
tailchasers
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 08:40AM (MST)[p]Re; Wildsage post
From my understanding Utah, Colorado, and a few addtional states will soon be limiting ATV or other ORV usage is some areas.
From my understanding Utah, Colorado, and a few addtional states will soon be limiting ATV or other ORV usage is some areas.
Apexmtnman
Active Member
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- 591
Tailchasers, they already do.
LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 10:17AM (MST)[p]one_dryboot---I have no idea who Jazz is, but I gather that was not a compliment to me on your part, LOL! I didn't intend to continue posting on this thread, but what the he**! I don't remember saying I shot hogs in the head at 100 yards, but I did say that because of their anatomy I have shot a number of them that way and that is the only animal I would attempt it. I believe my longest shot was just last year at 75 yards from an enclosed blind with a full rifle support and while the animal was unaware with it's "big" head down feeding. I don't have any problem whatsoever hearing of guys shooting a hog in the head under those kinds of situations "if" they have practiced. I also don't believe we have made any real definitions of whether 500 yards or 1000 yards is what constitutes a long shot. I think what we are saying is don't take that long shot unless you have done that practicing and it's a last resort. The longest shot I've ever attempted was 311 yards on a nice mulie and like in your scenario I couldn't get any closer and knew I could make the shot off my tripod. Would I or could I make the shot you made? Personally, no because my eyes are not that good any more, I don't practice out to more than 300 yards, and finally I wouldn't shoot that far with my piddly "ought six"! I can truly say that I don't believe that the way I hunt will ever result in anybody ever saying that I'm not ethical. I am not above anybody on this BB or anywhere else, but I do try to get people to "think hard" on things like we are discussing. I have not said and will not say that there should be a law on distances because it would be impossible to enforce or even decide what is too far or when it should be attempted. The main thing, as you mentioned, is to get out and enjoy ourselves, but in doing that I would just ask that each of us give careful thought if what we are doing will be detrimental to our sport. You might be able to make that shot you mentioned, but I'd wager money there are too many that I see out in Wyoming every year that can't, but try it anyway! Just take a look around you when you're out and see what is going on. ATVs are all over where they shouldn't be and that is wrecking the recreational opportunity for others. That is one example of unethical behavior that I feel we could have solved ourselves by turning in violators, but now the states are putting on restrictions because of misuse by some and it will affect ALL users. From the way I see it in reading your last post on your exploits with gun and bow, I can truthfully say that I would be happy to hunt with you any day! Incidentally, I'd also really like to see you post a picture of that buck on this thread because the best I've had a chance at is that one I mentioned at 311 yards and I'm guessing he's only about 160".
nontypical---Just in case you aren't aware of it, Montana has already banned the use of trailcams during the open hunting seasons!!! What's next? That is why we are having this discussion!
nontypical---Just in case you aren't aware of it, Montana has already banned the use of trailcams during the open hunting seasons!!! What's next? That is why we are having this discussion!
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brutus
Guest
one_dryboot, +10
Best post on this thread, says it all!
Best post on this thread, says it all!
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huntaddict
Guest
IMO, And I'm sure I'll get blasted but go ahead, there should be a maximum of 4x scopes allowed on hunting rifles. We have restrictions up the ass on muzzleloader and archery hunts but virtually none on rifle hunts.
Gator
Long Time Member
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- 18,205
I only use my 30-378 on close shots, that why everyone thinks I'm a nice guy. LOL
200" muledeer at 800yds I will be shooting, 200" muledeer at 80 yds I will be shooting.
I love shooting long range,Thanks for playing.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
200" muledeer at 800yds I will be shooting, 200" muledeer at 80 yds I will be shooting.
I love shooting long range,Thanks for playing.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
H
HunterX
Guest
I have a question for all the LR hunters. How many times have you shot at and missed an animal past 500 yards? Tell the truth now.
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 01:51PM (MST)[p]
If you're talking big game animals that need a tag, then 0..
How many have you missed from 300 and closer? be honest now. I've missed a handful in my days at close range.
I have a question for all the dissenters, what makes you think you are qualified to question my abilities?
Tell us everything you think you know about guns, it'll be funny.(not directed at anyone in particular)
--------------------------------------
If rifle hunting was gay swbuckmaster would do it...
If you're talking big game animals that need a tag, then 0..
How many have you missed from 300 and closer? be honest now. I've missed a handful in my days at close range.
I have a question for all the dissenters, what makes you think you are qualified to question my abilities?
Tell us everything you think you know about guns, it'll be funny.(not directed at anyone in particular)
--------------------------------------
If rifle hunting was gay swbuckmaster would do it...
nontypical
Long Time Member
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- 4,298
+1,DOG.
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 02:09PM (MST)[p]How many fing times do we have to tell you that's it's not mainly just your shooting ability or that we can't do it? Do some of you not have any reading comprehension skills just because someone says something contrary to what you are doing and you don't like it? We know that a lot of people are crack shots at long distance through a lot of practice!!! That's not the main point of this thread!
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 02:23PM (MST)[p]Prolly at least one more time.
""Do some of you not have any reading comprehension skills just because someone says something contrary to what you are doing and you don't like it?""
Do you wanna be the pot or kettle?
--------------------------------------
If rifle hunting was gay swbuckmaster would do it...
""Do some of you not have any reading comprehension skills just because someone says something contrary to what you are doing and you don't like it?""
Do you wanna be the pot or kettle?
--------------------------------------
If rifle hunting was gay swbuckmaster would do it...
H
HunterX
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 02:30PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 02:29?PM (MST)
More then I'd care to admit. I wasn't asking to prove that LR shots result in more missed animals. I'd just like to know how many of you LR shooters have actually missed some of these long range shots. So I'll ask again how many of you guys have missed shots at big game further then 500 yards?
So far we got Reddog with 0 misses on big game animals. Any others out there care to share? Good shooting btw R-dog.
More then I'd care to admit. I wasn't asking to prove that LR shots result in more missed animals. I'd just like to know how many of you LR shooters have actually missed some of these long range shots. So I'll ask again how many of you guys have missed shots at big game further then 500 yards?
So far we got Reddog with 0 misses on big game animals. Any others out there care to share? Good shooting btw R-dog.
H
huntaddict
Guest
As longdistance shooting gets more popular success rates will go up and tag numbers will come down. But most of the people that can afford these guns aren't too woried. They have the money to purchase land owner tags, auctions tags and also apply in 12 different states along with hunting Mexico and Canada.
H
huntaddict
Guest
I've never considered shooting a buck at 500 yards. But last year I shot a buck at 375 and that was 250 yards farther than any other animal I've shot. Afterwards I felt like a jackass! There were 12 deer in the area and not one of them flinched when I shot, they had no idea I was around or even shooting at them!
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 03:57PM (MST)[p]HunterX---Before you give too much credit to anyone, the question might be asked how many times have you even shot at a big game animal over 500 yards. REDDOG said 0 misses, but he also didn't say whether he had even attempted anything over 500 yards either the way you worded your question!!! And to answer his question; I'm probably the pot AND the kettle on this issue, LOL!!!
one_dryboot
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,147
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 04:24PM (MST)[p]I have shot 4 animals 500 or beyond. The only animal I have missed past 500 yards was a black bear in Montana. My uncle talked me into shooting his 300 ultra without a muzzlebreak. It was 570 yards uphill shot and I knew that scope was going to rock my world. I was more worried about the scope hitting my eye then anything. And I shot over his back. And just as I thought, it indented my skull.
The bear ran into the trees so I gave my uncles gun back and got mine ready. 4 hours later it came out again and it dropped in its tracks.
This bear was up in Billy Goat country, really steep rocky country. As I walked up to it, another bear stood up on its back feet looking at me from 10 feet away. I didnt know if it was my bear injured or what? Luckily, me screaming like a little school girl, made it run off.
NO animals were wounded and got away or wounded and had to track down, and all were one shot kills except the black bear. That one was 2 shots.
The bear ran into the trees so I gave my uncles gun back and got mine ready. 4 hours later it came out again and it dropped in its tracks.
This bear was up in Billy Goat country, really steep rocky country. As I walked up to it, another bear stood up on its back feet looking at me from 10 feet away. I didnt know if it was my bear injured or what? Luckily, me screaming like a little school girl, made it run off.
NO animals were wounded and got away or wounded and had to track down, and all were one shot kills except the black bear. That one was 2 shots.
huntindad4
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,796
+1 mtmuley!
All I got outta that is him calling himself a Jackass!
Bill
All I got outta that is him calling himself a Jackass!
Bill
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huntaddict
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 09:23PM (MST)[p]If you've never been within bow range of a buck while hunting It wouldn't make sense. It's not hunting.
huntaddict---I got it right away, but it didn't surprise me one bit that some of these people that lack reading comprehension, like I mentioned in an earlier post, didn't, LOL!!! I just watched a show tonight on Sportsman Channel with Wayne VanZwoll and he mentioned that he does a lot of long range target shooting, but always tries to get as close as possible when hunting because of the challenge and higher percentage of making a good, humane kill! He was on an antelope hunt and crawled up to make a closer shot on a nice buck and the episode sure fit this thread perfectly!
one_dryboot
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,147
Hmmm... Lets see what the definition of hunting is shall we???
HUNTING. The act of pursuing and taking wild animals; the chase.
1. To search for or follow after, as game or wild animals; to chase; to pursue for the purpose of catching or killing; to follow with dogs or guns for sport or exercise; as, to hunt a deer. [1913 Webster]
?hunt: the pursuit and killing or capture of wild animals regarded as a sport
?search: the activity of looking thoroughly in order to find something or someone
?hunt: the work of finding and killing or capturing animals for food or pelts
?Hunting is the practice of pursuing living animals (usually wildlife) for food, recreation, or trade. In present-day use, the term refers to lawful hunting, as distinguished from poaching, which is the killing, trapping or capture of the hunted species contrary to applicable law. ...
Do I need to go on???
Huntaddict, so now you have to be in bow range of an animal or its not hunting??? Dream on buddy!
HUNTING. The act of pursuing and taking wild animals; the chase.
1. To search for or follow after, as game or wild animals; to chase; to pursue for the purpose of catching or killing; to follow with dogs or guns for sport or exercise; as, to hunt a deer. [1913 Webster]
?hunt: the pursuit and killing or capture of wild animals regarded as a sport
?search: the activity of looking thoroughly in order to find something or someone
?hunt: the work of finding and killing or capturing animals for food or pelts
?Hunting is the practice of pursuing living animals (usually wildlife) for food, recreation, or trade. In present-day use, the term refers to lawful hunting, as distinguished from poaching, which is the killing, trapping or capture of the hunted species contrary to applicable law. ...
Do I need to go on???
Huntaddict, so now you have to be in bow range of an animal or its not hunting??? Dream on buddy!
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huntaddict
Guest
Nice hundred year old definition there webster! No doubt there is skill involved in long range shooting but there is no sport!
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huntaddict
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 10:53PM (MST)[p]Now I know why you like longrange hunting boot!! Because you scream like a little girl when you get too close!
one_dryboot
Long Time Member
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- 5,147
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 11:03PM (MST)[p] I have been within bow range many times! I hunt with a bow as much as I do a rifle.
yes it might be a 100 year old definition, but the definition has not changed!
Thank you for telling me to stick with longrange hunting. I think I will! I will also stick with short range hunting and all hunting, as long as I am hunting! Doesnt matter to me, I do it all buddy!
yes it might be a 100 year old definition, but the definition has not changed!
Thank you for telling me to stick with longrange hunting. I think I will! I will also stick with short range hunting and all hunting, as long as I am hunting! Doesnt matter to me, I do it all buddy!
AWHOLELOTTABULL
Long Time Member
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- 4,356
I consider myself a "long distance shooter". By that I mean I shoot benchrest tournaments at 600 yards and 1000 yards. For those of you that came by the Vortex booth at the expo I had my rifles on display topped with the Vortex optics. I teach my kids to shoot long distance because I believe it improves skill level and a habitual ability to calm yourself when the shot will dictate the humane kill of an animal or long tracking job with the chance of a lost animal. I shoot on a weekly basis unless the temperatures are too cold or the weather does not allow for it, although I have shot in inclimate weather to see the variability of my bullet in rain, snow and cold. Since I started competing I have noticed an increased confidence level with my hunting/shooting capabilities in the field. I will NOT hesitate to drop down on a 600-700 yard shot if conditions permit. Somone mentioned above that you can not take away the wind factor. While that is true, you can learn how to judge wind better at a distance. I used to wonder why there was a need for such awesome optics. While seeing a clear target is the primary purpose, seeing those blades of grass and brush blowing at 600 yards is just as important. There is a lot more to long distance shooting than pulling the trigger. Finding loads for your gun that will shoot a 5" group at 1000 yards, learning and judging angles, wind and every other variable needed to be a "good shot". I remember when 300 yards was a "long shot". It's true that our equipment has enabled us to be more efficient killing machines however the human factor will always be there. There is nothing wrong with long distance shooting. If it inspires you to get out and practive more, GREAT! If you think you are going to pull the gun out the week before the hunt, load it with your factory loads, shoot a couple of rounds through it to make sure you can hit a paper plate, and then hit the hills thinking you're profficient with that weapon at long distances (over 300 yards) then I hope when you shoot, you miss big. Unfortunately you won't miss, but you'll miss enough to wound an animal.
Long distance shooting is NOT a sport for the rich. It does require some money to get started, but after the initial investment it costs less than a season golf pass. Speaking of golf, how many of you golfers still use a wooden driver? Uh huh, that's what I thought.
It's always an adventure!!!
Long distance shooting is NOT a sport for the rich. It does require some money to get started, but after the initial investment it costs less than a season golf pass. Speaking of golf, how many of you golfers still use a wooden driver? Uh huh, that's what I thought.
It's always an adventure!!!
Apexmtnman
Active Member
- Messages
- 591
Topgun
Check out Wayne Van Zwoll's 603 yard elk kill.
<http://www.greybullprecision.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9&Itemid=19>
Check out Wayne Van Zwoll's 603 yard elk kill.
<http://www.greybullprecision.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9&Itemid=19>
huntindad4
Very Active Member
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- 2,796
Huntaddict I got your post I was trying to lighten things up a bit, shoulda made that more clear ,seems I am not very good at that lately.
TOPGUN my reading comprehension skills are fine I just don't agree with MOST of what you say in this and the headshot thread. But I like Wayne Van Zwoll he is one of my favorites. Oh and by the way I think every guy here who is ok with LR hunting will try to get as close as possible to the animal under the conditions given but those who can and are willing to do so and have no ethical qualms with it will shoot at 600 if the shot is there.
AWHOLELOTTABULL, Great post explained my PERSONAL feelings well.
I bowhunt too and there truly is nothing like being in bow range of an animal and sealing the deal.
I rifle hunt too and will shoot out to about 700 yards in the right conditions and given time or good stalking conditions have run out and there is no other feeling like hitting on the first shot and hearing the bullet thump.
Both good feelings to me and I will NEVER give up either without a fight.
Do what is right for you and as soon as you start to point the finger at someone for the way they hunt take an HONEST look at your hunting style (not just you but your style) and see if there are no flaws or ammo for the antis or whatever.
For example some LR hunters may not follow up on every shot or may wound game and not retrieve it. Some archery hunters do the same. It is not the style of hunter but the class of the individual hunter that will make the difference.
Bill
TOPGUN my reading comprehension skills are fine I just don't agree with MOST of what you say in this and the headshot thread. But I like Wayne Van Zwoll he is one of my favorites. Oh and by the way I think every guy here who is ok with LR hunting will try to get as close as possible to the animal under the conditions given but those who can and are willing to do so and have no ethical qualms with it will shoot at 600 if the shot is there.
AWHOLELOTTABULL, Great post explained my PERSONAL feelings well.
I bowhunt too and there truly is nothing like being in bow range of an animal and sealing the deal.
I rifle hunt too and will shoot out to about 700 yards in the right conditions and given time or good stalking conditions have run out and there is no other feeling like hitting on the first shot and hearing the bullet thump.
Both good feelings to me and I will NEVER give up either without a fight.
Do what is right for you and as soon as you start to point the finger at someone for the way they hunt take an HONEST look at your hunting style (not just you but your style) and see if there are no flaws or ammo for the antis or whatever.
For example some LR hunters may not follow up on every shot or may wound game and not retrieve it. Some archery hunters do the same. It is not the style of hunter but the class of the individual hunter that will make the difference.
Bill
Looks like TOPGUN is the new MM Messiah of all things good in hunting and shooting. Too bad the rest of us mortals here do not possess his apparent omniscience regarding our sport. Hopefully my hunting karma is not damaged from some of my "incorrect or unethical" behaviour and using high tech or dangerous equipment. Some of this drivel is borderline paranoia. Wonder what the next crusade of He and his followers will entail? mtmuley
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HunterX
Guest
Good post lotabull. You to touched on some very good points there.
Well so far I got Reddog with 0 misses and one dryboot with 1 miss and a sore head. Anybody else want to chime in with how many times they've missed shots at big game past 500 yards? Remember this has nothing to do with LR hunters being able to shoot acuratly or not. We all know that most LR shooter can shoot very well. I just want to see how many of you have experience taking long range shoots at big game.
Well so far I got Reddog with 0 misses and one dryboot with 1 miss and a sore head. Anybody else want to chime in with how many times they've missed shots at big game past 500 yards? Remember this has nothing to do with LR hunters being able to shoot acuratly or not. We all know that most LR shooter can shoot very well. I just want to see how many of you have experience taking long range shoots at big game.
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brutus
Guest
TOPGUN, I understand what you and HX are trying to say but how you cant comprihend what it is that the rest of us are saying is beyond me, but here's my experience.
Last year I shot a deer with my bow at 60 yds after being 30 yds from it for 20 min with no shot. I had a blast!
Last year I shot a elk at 20 ft with my bow after watching him come in from over 100 yds. I had a blast!
Last year I shot a deer at 400 yds with my rifle after closing over a mile of ground then waiting him out for 6 and 1/2 hours to get a clear shot. I had a blast!
All were one shot kills and I have no problem with getting as close as possible (although the elk was a little closer than i'd like) to these animals as you say is ethical or sporting. The difference is I had a blast with everyone of my hunts the 2 archery werent any more sporting than the rifle hunt. In fact the 400 yd shot although not very long range was still very rewarding knowing that all the hours of reloading and shooting had paid off.
Make an effort to understand what it is we are trying to say. If you like to get within 100 yds of your prey thats great for you but dont knock someone for taking a shot over that cause for them its still hunting.
Last year I shot a deer with my bow at 60 yds after being 30 yds from it for 20 min with no shot. I had a blast!
Last year I shot a elk at 20 ft with my bow after watching him come in from over 100 yds. I had a blast!
Last year I shot a deer at 400 yds with my rifle after closing over a mile of ground then waiting him out for 6 and 1/2 hours to get a clear shot. I had a blast!
All were one shot kills and I have no problem with getting as close as possible (although the elk was a little closer than i'd like) to these animals as you say is ethical or sporting. The difference is I had a blast with everyone of my hunts the 2 archery werent any more sporting than the rifle hunt. In fact the 400 yd shot although not very long range was still very rewarding knowing that all the hours of reloading and shooting had paid off.
Make an effort to understand what it is we are trying to say. If you like to get within 100 yds of your prey thats great for you but dont knock someone for taking a shot over that cause for them its still hunting.
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-11 AT 09:30AM (MST)[p]
Good posts guys! As I said before, I'm not Hitler or now as one has anointed me "the Messiah", LOL! It appears that VanZwoll is making his money however he can, since he stated what he did in that show I mentioned and then shot that bull at 603 yards in the link provided above while promoting that system with Precision Bull. I feel that's pretty hypocritical, but what do I know!!! Everyone on here who is shooting those long distances obviously appears to be doing a lot of practicing and that's great and what's needed to attempt what we are talking about. I can somewhat justify it if you can't close the distance and the conditions are favorable to make the shot. It's the ones going out and trying to see how far they can push the envelope when not necessary that gets my dander up! As I've mentioned before, the thing I'm worried about is those who just see this being done on TV, go out and buy the equipment, and then feel they can just go out and do it. It's pretty much just like the analogy of how many people that don't even shoot during the year, then go out and shoot 2 or 3 times and hit the paper anywhere and call it good to go hunting! I'm sorry I was born a long time ago and the times seem to have passed me by, but please don't blame me for loving this great sport that I will stay with until the day I die. By the way, this is for the post that mentioned golf clubs. At one time when I was a scratch player and played on the junior college team back in the 60s (yea, I'm old guys!), I used Walter Hagen Persimmon woods and still do. I pretty much quit playing frequently when I ruptured a disc in my lower back in the late 80's, but I can still go out and shoot a decent round in the low 80s with them. Damn, I wonder what I could do with one of those drivers they're using now that looks as big as a softball, LOL! I told you all I'm a friggin purist!!! Take care guys and don't hate me too much as at least I'm a passionate hunter and not an ANTI!!! That's when you would all be in big trouble, LOL! I really do like this site because from what I've seen over the last couple months since I found it I believe that 99% of the guys here are just as passionate and dedicated to the sport as I am and that's good for the future!!!
Good posts guys! As I said before, I'm not Hitler or now as one has anointed me "the Messiah", LOL! It appears that VanZwoll is making his money however he can, since he stated what he did in that show I mentioned and then shot that bull at 603 yards in the link provided above while promoting that system with Precision Bull. I feel that's pretty hypocritical, but what do I know!!! Everyone on here who is shooting those long distances obviously appears to be doing a lot of practicing and that's great and what's needed to attempt what we are talking about. I can somewhat justify it if you can't close the distance and the conditions are favorable to make the shot. It's the ones going out and trying to see how far they can push the envelope when not necessary that gets my dander up! As I've mentioned before, the thing I'm worried about is those who just see this being done on TV, go out and buy the equipment, and then feel they can just go out and do it. It's pretty much just like the analogy of how many people that don't even shoot during the year, then go out and shoot 2 or 3 times and hit the paper anywhere and call it good to go hunting! I'm sorry I was born a long time ago and the times seem to have passed me by, but please don't blame me for loving this great sport that I will stay with until the day I die. By the way, this is for the post that mentioned golf clubs. At one time when I was a scratch player and played on the junior college team back in the 60s (yea, I'm old guys!), I used Walter Hagen Persimmon woods and still do. I pretty much quit playing frequently when I ruptured a disc in my lower back in the late 80's, but I can still go out and shoot a decent round in the low 80s with them. Damn, I wonder what I could do with one of those drivers they're using now that looks as big as a softball, LOL! I told you all I'm a friggin purist!!! Take care guys and don't hate me too much as at least I'm a passionate hunter and not an ANTI!!! That's when you would all be in big trouble, LOL! I really do like this site because from what I've seen over the last couple months since I found it I believe that 99% of the guys here are just as passionate and dedicated to the sport as I am and that's good for the future!!!
H
HunterX
Guest
In due time Gator in due time but yes I've missed my fare share of shots at big game more then most probably. Once again guys I'm not trying prove that LR hunting results in more missed shots. Just want to know if any of you actually have any experience with missed long range shots while hunting big game.
I didn't read all the above post, just my $.02 long rang shooting like out to 1000 yards to me is not really hunting the way I like to hunt, it's just like taking 10 guys with you and your the only one with a tag ie.. spotters, chasers, radios,ect. beanch rest is one thing but shooting a critter at long range is not hunting it's just getting lucky.Hunting is all about getting close. Try it some time, pick up a bow and go hunting it's a lot more rewarding.
B
brutus
Guest
jodog, If you had read any of the posts you'd know most that posted hunt with bows.
Try keeping your composure and breathing under control and taking wind, angle, and distance into consideration and then making a 500 yd one shot kill. IT'S ALOT MORE REWARDING!
Try keeping your composure and breathing under control and taking wind, angle, and distance into consideration and then making a 500 yd one shot kill. IT'S ALOT MORE REWARDING!
Apexmtnman
Active Member
- Messages
- 591
Jodog
I've killed 2 elk with my bow and 5 or six deer and I bet I've been bowhunting longer than you've been alive. I also hunt with my muzzle loader, I hunt short range, medium range and long range, the key word here is HUNT.
I've killed 2 elk with my bow and 5 or six deer and I bet I've been bowhunting longer than you've been alive. I also hunt with my muzzle loader, I hunt short range, medium range and long range, the key word here is HUNT.
So, pretty much seen all the ups and downs of this post and the opinions of the respondents.
Outside of the, "I'm a better hunter than you" group, who only see things they do, as right, ....the bottom line seems to be, the possibility of wounding an animal and having it suffer a slow, painful death.
I doubt ANYONE on here wants to see that happen.
My question now would be, is a duck, dove, chukar, etc, etc, etc, less susceptable to the "slow painful death" issue?
I submit that compared to big game, birds are fatally wounded, times 1000. It happens at any level of "hunting".
Death happens regardless, and even if we do what we can to make it quick and effecient, it sometimes goes wrong. Nature itself, is full of incidents where animals die "slow painful deaths" at her own hand.
We take too much upon ourselves, thinking WE make such a big difference in nature's progression. Man is a just temporary disturbance in the evolutionary cycle.
In any event, just because the game didn't make it to the freezer, it is never "wasted". Nature provides for the disposal of all things dead, with several levels of carnivores that require continous food sources.
One more thing....people need to quit tossing in "the antis are going to use this against us"..statements.
Guess what, the "antis" don't care what WE do between ourselves.....they have enough fabricated crap for ammo already and facts, figures and fiction, will not alter their agenda in the least.
"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
Outside of the, "I'm a better hunter than you" group, who only see things they do, as right, ....the bottom line seems to be, the possibility of wounding an animal and having it suffer a slow, painful death.
I doubt ANYONE on here wants to see that happen.
My question now would be, is a duck, dove, chukar, etc, etc, etc, less susceptable to the "slow painful death" issue?
I submit that compared to big game, birds are fatally wounded, times 1000. It happens at any level of "hunting".
Death happens regardless, and even if we do what we can to make it quick and effecient, it sometimes goes wrong. Nature itself, is full of incidents where animals die "slow painful deaths" at her own hand.
We take too much upon ourselves, thinking WE make such a big difference in nature's progression. Man is a just temporary disturbance in the evolutionary cycle.
In any event, just because the game didn't make it to the freezer, it is never "wasted". Nature provides for the disposal of all things dead, with several levels of carnivores that require continous food sources.
One more thing....people need to quit tossing in "the antis are going to use this against us"..statements.
Guess what, the "antis" don't care what WE do between ourselves.....they have enough fabricated crap for ammo already and facts, figures and fiction, will not alter their agenda in the least.
"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
sageadvice
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,849
I'll chime in with my $.02 here though i'm not what many refer to as a long range guy. For a little background, i was raised on a ranch that could support 20-25 bucks being taken every year. At times, the uncles, friends, and i would hunt outa jeeps working canyons or big brush patches and if a buck showed himself, he'd get shot at until he either got away or went down. Distance really wasn't a factor back then. If you could still see him, you shot at him. I had a few friends that also hunted similar to the way we did when they all got together so i figured at the time, that this was normal SOP.
After a few years of going on these "fun Hunts" and having many years of spotting deer and opening gates for my Dad while he drank his beers and cruised the ranches looking for a easy shot right out his pickup window, i started really wanting to get away from "that" type of hunting altogether and most of the time, i'd be off hunting the back country with no roads and much better hunting. I hunted with a 25-06. Shots at game were sometimes still "out there" but i had a lot more time and being by myself, many times, i'd get way closer and make the sure one shot kill. About this time, i went on a streak of one shot kills that lasted many years.
The biggest factor,IMO, in today's long range shooting at game, is the Range Finder!! Those that don't use one, don't have or want one, should surely keep their shots under 200-300 yards! Once i got mine and developed a range routine that works for me to practice field conditions, with known distances, i realized i was then ready to increase the range that i could still continue the much preferred, one shot kills on bucks, even those that i couldn't get closer to. Now i can pretty much handle anything out to 500 yds, or bit more which is a very long ways, if need be with confidence and a good amount of certainty. Myself, i love the idea of being prepared to take these kind of shots, especially if "THE ONE" ever gives me that once in a lifetime opportunity.
So, 500+ is about my limit. I can't or won't say what someone else's limit might or should be. Though i used to shoot A LOT, i don't get in near the range time that i once did. I'm sure that there are many many guys here in these pages and out there in the stix that can exceed my self imposed limits comfortably. Those that say that there is no or little satisfaction in taking big game out there at a good long ways, are FOS IMO! I greatly take satisfaction knowing i can get er done and then doing it when the chance presents itself. To me, that's a lot of what it's all about.
On the other hand, a guy new to the game buying a high dollar outfit and putting it to use on game at long distances without paying "his dues" is, to my way of thinking and another members term, being careless and "Foolish"!
Joey
After a few years of going on these "fun Hunts" and having many years of spotting deer and opening gates for my Dad while he drank his beers and cruised the ranches looking for a easy shot right out his pickup window, i started really wanting to get away from "that" type of hunting altogether and most of the time, i'd be off hunting the back country with no roads and much better hunting. I hunted with a 25-06. Shots at game were sometimes still "out there" but i had a lot more time and being by myself, many times, i'd get way closer and make the sure one shot kill. About this time, i went on a streak of one shot kills that lasted many years.
The biggest factor,IMO, in today's long range shooting at game, is the Range Finder!! Those that don't use one, don't have or want one, should surely keep their shots under 200-300 yards! Once i got mine and developed a range routine that works for me to practice field conditions, with known distances, i realized i was then ready to increase the range that i could still continue the much preferred, one shot kills on bucks, even those that i couldn't get closer to. Now i can pretty much handle anything out to 500 yds, or bit more which is a very long ways, if need be with confidence and a good amount of certainty. Myself, i love the idea of being prepared to take these kind of shots, especially if "THE ONE" ever gives me that once in a lifetime opportunity.
So, 500+ is about my limit. I can't or won't say what someone else's limit might or should be. Though i used to shoot A LOT, i don't get in near the range time that i once did. I'm sure that there are many many guys here in these pages and out there in the stix that can exceed my self imposed limits comfortably. Those that say that there is no or little satisfaction in taking big game out there at a good long ways, are FOS IMO! I greatly take satisfaction knowing i can get er done and then doing it when the chance presents itself. To me, that's a lot of what it's all about.
On the other hand, a guy new to the game buying a high dollar outfit and putting it to use on game at long distances without paying "his dues" is, to my way of thinking and another members term, being careless and "Foolish"!
Joey
H
HunterX
Guest
....the bottom line
>seems to be, the possibility
>of wounding an animal and
>having it suffer a slow,
>painful death.
I can't speak for everyone that have made posts against LR hunting on this thread but that's not why I'm against LR hunting. This can happen at any distance.
>Guess what, the "antis" don't care
>what WE do between ourselves.....they
>have enough fabricated crap for
>ammo already and facts, figures
>and fiction, will not alter
>their agenda in the least.
>
+1
>seems to be, the possibility
>of wounding an animal and
>having it suffer a slow,
>painful death.
I can't speak for everyone that have made posts against LR hunting on this thread but that's not why I'm against LR hunting. This can happen at any distance.
>Guess what, the "antis" don't care
>what WE do between ourselves.....they
>have enough fabricated crap for
>ammo already and facts, figures
>and fiction, will not alter
>their agenda in the least.
>
+1
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-11 AT 11:19AM (MST)[p]The wounding aspect is just one of the things that we have talked about and I think with all things being equal it does increase as the distances go further and further, based on the simple law of physics! I guess I can agree with all but one thing nickman stated and that's the: "I'm a better hunter" statement. Not at all! It's just different styles of hunting ranging from close up bow/rifle hunting (I love em both)to being able to increase the distance with firearms out like you guys are mentioning. The hunting is obviously still there because "you gotta find him before you shoot him"! The other statement regarding the antis is pretty much true, but it seems we should at least be wary of methods that might be seen as unsporting by the vast majority of the citizens who are on the fence in regards to all hunting. They would be the voting block that would possibly take away ALL of our rights if it was ever able to be voted on. That is scary and could happen just like earlier when I mentioned we lost dove hunting in MI a few years ago and it went down by a 7 to 1 margin. Hunting and fishing are two things that are huge in my state of MI, but it happened!!! I don't believe there are 7 active antis out there to each hunter, so that is more of where I'm coming from when I say I'm a little scared of us losing our hunting heritage. I would hope all reading this post could understand that.
AWHOLELOTTABULL
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,356
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-11 AT 07:11PM (MST)[p]I missed the biggest buck of my life at 587 yards and 602 on 2 separate days. We were practicing shooting rocks across the canyon at 800 yards and I dialed my turret the wrong direction. I was shooting with a scope without a zero stop. I have also missed a buck at 340 yards. I am positive that that one was shooter error as well. I missed an off hand 227 yard shot too. Nothing but sage brush to get a rest on and my bipod couldn't get me above the sage.
Now that I've claimed my misses, I have hit a coyote at 527 yards on the move (LUCKY), a buck antelope at 617, and a buck deer at 663 yards. In the back of my mind I would love to make a 1 shot kill on an animal at 1000 yards but the conditions would have to be PERFECT!! I highly doubt that would ever happen. And besides, 1000 yards is a long way. Once you shoot it, then what. I don't hunt too many places that 1000 yards is an easy walk. Hopefully it's 1000 yards towards the truck.
It's always an adventure!!!
Now that I've claimed my misses, I have hit a coyote at 527 yards on the move (LUCKY), a buck antelope at 617, and a buck deer at 663 yards. In the back of my mind I would love to make a 1 shot kill on an animal at 1000 yards but the conditions would have to be PERFECT!! I highly doubt that would ever happen. And besides, 1000 yards is a long way. Once you shoot it, then what. I don't hunt too many places that 1000 yards is an easy walk. Hopefully it's 1000 yards towards the truck.
It's always an adventure!!!
H
huntaddict
Guest
Hell!!!...........Why stop at 1000 yards.......step back and go for 1500 or 2000. That would be cool!
H
huntaddict
Guest
I think I'll shoot my next buck at 700 yards....behind the back....
....off a rock....nothing but lung!!
....off a rock....nothing but lung!!
what kind of energy does a 30/378 have at 1000 yds, best case? you know there is a lot of room between the vitals and a complete miss, and a 500 to 1000 yd shot at an antelope is one thing, but an elk is a different story. Always more and more technology, I can't help but wonder where big game hunting is headed, something has to give, and right now it seems to have started taking a toll on mature trophys.
C
crookedarrow
Guest
I'm an archery guy and my heart rate doesn't even go up until you get inside of 200 yards. I just don't get the excitement of pulling the trigger on something so far away. The whole sport and challenge is to beat the animals senses.
H
HunterX
Guest
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-11
>AT 07:11?PM (MST)
>
>I missed the biggest buck of
>my life at 587 yards
>and 602 on 2 separate
>days. We were practicing
>shooting rocks across the canyon
>at 800 yards and I
>dialed my turret the wrong
>direction. I was shooting
>with a scope without a
>zero stop. I have
>also missed a buck at
>340 yards. I am
>positive that that one was
>shooter error as well.
>I missed an off hand
>227 yard shot too.
>Nothing but sage brush to
>get a rest on and
>my bipod couldn't get me
>above the sage.
>
>Now that I've claimed my misses,
>I have hit a coyote
>at 527 yards on the
>move (LUCKY), a buck antelope
>at 617, and a buck
>deer at 663 yards.
>In the back of my
>mind I would love to
>make a 1 shot kill
>on an animal at 1000
>yards but the conditions would
>have to be PERFECT!!
>I highly doubt that would
>ever happen. And besides,
>1000 yards is a long
>way. Once you shoot
>it, then what. I
>don't hunt too many places
>that 1000 yards is an
>easy walk. Hopefully it's
>1000 yards towards the truck.
>
>
>
>It's always an adventure!!!
Thanks that's the kind of response I was looking for. I bet that whole turret mess up still haunts you to this day. On the deer you misses did you just get one shot or did you get the chance to shoot again?
>AT 07:11?PM (MST)
>
>I missed the biggest buck of
>my life at 587 yards
>and 602 on 2 separate
>days. We were practicing
>shooting rocks across the canyon
>at 800 yards and I
>dialed my turret the wrong
>direction. I was shooting
>with a scope without a
>zero stop. I have
>also missed a buck at
>340 yards. I am
>positive that that one was
>shooter error as well.
>I missed an off hand
>227 yard shot too.
>Nothing but sage brush to
>get a rest on and
>my bipod couldn't get me
>above the sage.
>
>Now that I've claimed my misses,
>I have hit a coyote
>at 527 yards on the
>move (LUCKY), a buck antelope
>at 617, and a buck
>deer at 663 yards.
>In the back of my
>mind I would love to
>make a 1 shot kill
>on an animal at 1000
>yards but the conditions would
>have to be PERFECT!!
>I highly doubt that would
>ever happen. And besides,
>1000 yards is a long
>way. Once you shoot
>it, then what. I
>don't hunt too many places
>that 1000 yards is an
>easy walk. Hopefully it's
>1000 yards towards the truck.
>
>
>
>It's always an adventure!!!
Thanks that's the kind of response I was looking for. I bet that whole turret mess up still haunts you to this day. On the deer you misses did you just get one shot or did you get the chance to shoot again?
H
huntaddict
Guest
>what kind of energy does a
>30/378 have at 1000 yds,
>best case? you
>know there is a lot
>of room between the vitals
>and a complete miss, and
>a 500 to 1000
>yd shot at an antelope
>is one thing, but an
>elk is a different story.
>Always more and more
>technology, I can't help but
>wonder where big game hunting
>is headed, something has to
>give, and right now it
>seems to have started taking
> a toll on mature
>trophys.
I haven't seen someone take a 500+ yard shot on a yearling but I guess its possible.
>30/378 have at 1000 yds,
>best case? you
>know there is a lot
>of room between the vitals
>and a complete miss, and
>a 500 to 1000
>yd shot at an antelope
>is one thing, but an
>elk is a different story.
>Always more and more
>technology, I can't help but
>wonder where big game hunting
>is headed, something has to
>give, and right now it
>seems to have started taking
> a toll on mature
>trophys.
I haven't seen someone take a 500+ yard shot on a yearling but I guess its possible.
AWHOLELOTTABULL
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,356
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-11 AT 10:22PM (MST)[p]I took one shot from a prone position on a 45 degree angle at first light. No wind. One of the more steady rests I have had. I could not figure out what happened. The buck just walked into the cedars and disappeared. I sat there all day until dark that night but he didn't come out. The next day I was in the same spot and he showed up again at first light. I shot again from the same prone position and the buck didn't even flinch. I was just getting ready to shoot a second shot when he took a step. I was worried he would start moving again so I held off. He walked into the cedars again. I was sick to my stomach. When I got off the mountain and back at camp I set up a target at 100 yards and shot. I should have been 2" high. I almost missed the paper. I knew immediately what I had done. You're right. Is still haunts me to this day. No question, he was a booner.
I have to add this, that happened 7 years ago and I will never make that same mistake again. Lesson learned.
It's always an adventure!!!
I have to add this, that happened 7 years ago and I will never make that same mistake again. Lesson learned.
It's always an adventure!!!
H
HunterX
Guest
O man tough break AWHOLELOTTABULL I feel your pain trust me I do.
Well I finished the video I was talking about. This explains why I'm not a fan of LR hunting way better then I can explain with words. Here's the link to the post I just made j/k you haven't seen it yet. http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/17479.html
Well I finished the video I was talking about. This explains why I'm not a fan of LR hunting way better then I can explain with words. Here's the link to the post I just made j/k you haven't seen it yet. http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/17479.html
Gator
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 18,205
Ballistic Chart for 30-378 Conley Precision Ammo.
150 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip 3640 / 4412 +0.76 / 3390 / 3827 +0.00 / 3150 / 3304 -4.28 / 2919 / 2838 -12.64 / 2698 / 2425 -25.79 / 2487 / 2060
150 Gr. Speer Grand Slam 3640 / 4412 +0.87 / 3286 / 3597 +0.00 / 2953 / 2903 -4.87 / 2638 / 2318 -14.77 / 2346 / 1833 -30.97 / 2077 / 1436
165 Gr. BTSP 3600 / 4747 +0.80 / 3352 / 4115 +0.00 / 3113 / 3550 -4.40 / 2884 / 3047 -12.98 / 2664 / 2601 -26.49 / 2455 / 2208
165 Gr. Speer Deep Shok 3600 / 4747 +0.78 / 3373 / 4168 +0.00 / 3154 / 3645 -4.28 / 2943 / 3174 -12.58 / 2741 / 2751 -25.51 / 2546 / 2374
165 Gr. Speer Grand Slam 3600 / 4747 +0.82 / 3326 / 4051 +0.00 / 3063 / 3437 -4.55 / 2812 / 2898 -13.49 / 2574 / 2426 -27.72 / 2348 / 2020
165 Gr. Swift A-Frame 3600 / 4747 +0.84 / 3307 / 4005 +0.00 / 3027 / 3356 -4.66 / 2761 / 2792 -13.88 / 2508 / 2305 -28.65 / 2272 / 1891
165 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip 3600 / 4747 +0.78 / 3372 / 4165 +0.00 / 3152 / 3640 -4.29 / 2941 / 3168 -12.60 / 2737 / 2745 -25.55 / 2542 / 2367
165 Gr. Nosler Partition 3600 / 4747 +0.81 / 3337 / 4078 +0.00 / 3084 / 3485 -4.49 / 2843 / 2961 -13.27 / 2612 / 2500 -27.19 / 2394 / 2099
165 Gr. Barnes X 3600 / 4747 +0.77 / 3385 / 4198 +0.00 / 3178 / 3700 -4.21 / 2978 / 3249 -12.36 / 2785 / 2841 -24.98 / 2599 / 2474
180 Gr. BTSP 3460 / 4784 +0.92 / 3226 / 4159 +0.00 / 3001 / 3599 -4.81 / 2785 / 3099 -14.08 / 2578 / 2655 -28.64 / 2381 / 2265
180 Gr. Speer Deep Shok 3460 / 4784 +0.88 / 3264 / 4256 +0.00 / 3073 / 3775 -4.58 / 2889 / 3336 -13.32 / 2712 / 2938 -26.78 / 2540 / 2579
180 Gr. Speer Grand Slam 3480 / 4784 +0.94 / 3206 / 4108 +0.00 / 2963 / 2508 -4.92 / 2730 / 2979 -14.50 / 2508 / 2514 -29.64 / 2299 / 2112
180 Gr. Swift A-Frame 3460 / 4784 +0.96 / 3196 / 4082 +0.00 / 2944 / 3463 -4.98 / 2703 / 2930 -14.73 / 2474 / 2446 -30.16 / 2259 / 2039
180 Gr. Barnes X 3460 / 4784 +0.88 / 3268 / 4267 +0.00 / 3081 / 2795 -4.56 / 2901 / 3364 -13.24 / 2727 / 2971 -26.59 / 2559 / 2616
180 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip 3460 / 4784 +0.89 / 3251 / 4223 +0.00 / 3049 / 3715 -4.66 / 2854 / 3255 -13.57 / 2667 / 2841 -27.38 / 2486 / 2470
180 Gr. Nosler Partition 3460 / 4784 +0.91 / 3237 / 4186 +0.00 / 3021 / 3648 -4.74 / 2814 / 3165 -13.86 / 2615 / 2734 -28.10 / 2426 / 2351
200 Gr. Nosler Partition 3300 / 4835 +1.08 / 3086 / 4227 +0.00 / 2879 / 3680 -5.27 / 2680 / 3190 -15.40 / 2490 / 2753 -31.15 / 2309 / 2368
200 Gr. Barnes X 3200 / 4547 +1.17 / 3015 / 4037 +0.00 / 2837 / 2572 -5.48 / 2664 / 3151 -15.87 / 2497 / 2769 -31.87 / 2338 / 2428
200 Gr. Speer Grand Slam 3300 / 4835 +1.10 / 3070 / 4185 +0.00 / 2849 / 3605 -5.38 / 2638 / 3089 -15.79 / 2436 / 2634 -32.03 / 2245 / 2238
200 Gr. Swift A-Frame 3280 / 4777 +1.13 / 3049 / 4127 +0.00 / 2827 / 3548 -5.47 / 2614 / 3035 -16.07 / 2412 / 2583 -32.60 / 2221 / 2190
220 Gr. Nosler Partition 3050 / 4543 +1.52 / 2771 / 3750 +0.00 / 2507 / 3069 -7.07 / 2260 / 2495 -20.95 / 2031 / 2015 -43.31 / 1819 / 1616
Hope this helps the last figure in the colunms are at 500yds.
Conley Precision ammo is outstanding. The one in the middle is what I use and like. Thanks for playing
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
150 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip 3640 / 4412 +0.76 / 3390 / 3827 +0.00 / 3150 / 3304 -4.28 / 2919 / 2838 -12.64 / 2698 / 2425 -25.79 / 2487 / 2060
150 Gr. Speer Grand Slam 3640 / 4412 +0.87 / 3286 / 3597 +0.00 / 2953 / 2903 -4.87 / 2638 / 2318 -14.77 / 2346 / 1833 -30.97 / 2077 / 1436
165 Gr. BTSP 3600 / 4747 +0.80 / 3352 / 4115 +0.00 / 3113 / 3550 -4.40 / 2884 / 3047 -12.98 / 2664 / 2601 -26.49 / 2455 / 2208
165 Gr. Speer Deep Shok 3600 / 4747 +0.78 / 3373 / 4168 +0.00 / 3154 / 3645 -4.28 / 2943 / 3174 -12.58 / 2741 / 2751 -25.51 / 2546 / 2374
165 Gr. Speer Grand Slam 3600 / 4747 +0.82 / 3326 / 4051 +0.00 / 3063 / 3437 -4.55 / 2812 / 2898 -13.49 / 2574 / 2426 -27.72 / 2348 / 2020
165 Gr. Swift A-Frame 3600 / 4747 +0.84 / 3307 / 4005 +0.00 / 3027 / 3356 -4.66 / 2761 / 2792 -13.88 / 2508 / 2305 -28.65 / 2272 / 1891
165 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip 3600 / 4747 +0.78 / 3372 / 4165 +0.00 / 3152 / 3640 -4.29 / 2941 / 3168 -12.60 / 2737 / 2745 -25.55 / 2542 / 2367
165 Gr. Nosler Partition 3600 / 4747 +0.81 / 3337 / 4078 +0.00 / 3084 / 3485 -4.49 / 2843 / 2961 -13.27 / 2612 / 2500 -27.19 / 2394 / 2099
165 Gr. Barnes X 3600 / 4747 +0.77 / 3385 / 4198 +0.00 / 3178 / 3700 -4.21 / 2978 / 3249 -12.36 / 2785 / 2841 -24.98 / 2599 / 2474
180 Gr. BTSP 3460 / 4784 +0.92 / 3226 / 4159 +0.00 / 3001 / 3599 -4.81 / 2785 / 3099 -14.08 / 2578 / 2655 -28.64 / 2381 / 2265
180 Gr. Speer Deep Shok 3460 / 4784 +0.88 / 3264 / 4256 +0.00 / 3073 / 3775 -4.58 / 2889 / 3336 -13.32 / 2712 / 2938 -26.78 / 2540 / 2579
180 Gr. Speer Grand Slam 3480 / 4784 +0.94 / 3206 / 4108 +0.00 / 2963 / 2508 -4.92 / 2730 / 2979 -14.50 / 2508 / 2514 -29.64 / 2299 / 2112
180 Gr. Swift A-Frame 3460 / 4784 +0.96 / 3196 / 4082 +0.00 / 2944 / 3463 -4.98 / 2703 / 2930 -14.73 / 2474 / 2446 -30.16 / 2259 / 2039
180 Gr. Barnes X 3460 / 4784 +0.88 / 3268 / 4267 +0.00 / 3081 / 2795 -4.56 / 2901 / 3364 -13.24 / 2727 / 2971 -26.59 / 2559 / 2616
180 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip 3460 / 4784 +0.89 / 3251 / 4223 +0.00 / 3049 / 3715 -4.66 / 2854 / 3255 -13.57 / 2667 / 2841 -27.38 / 2486 / 2470
180 Gr. Nosler Partition 3460 / 4784 +0.91 / 3237 / 4186 +0.00 / 3021 / 3648 -4.74 / 2814 / 3165 -13.86 / 2615 / 2734 -28.10 / 2426 / 2351
200 Gr. Nosler Partition 3300 / 4835 +1.08 / 3086 / 4227 +0.00 / 2879 / 3680 -5.27 / 2680 / 3190 -15.40 / 2490 / 2753 -31.15 / 2309 / 2368
200 Gr. Barnes X 3200 / 4547 +1.17 / 3015 / 4037 +0.00 / 2837 / 2572 -5.48 / 2664 / 3151 -15.87 / 2497 / 2769 -31.87 / 2338 / 2428
200 Gr. Speer Grand Slam 3300 / 4835 +1.10 / 3070 / 4185 +0.00 / 2849 / 3605 -5.38 / 2638 / 3089 -15.79 / 2436 / 2634 -32.03 / 2245 / 2238
200 Gr. Swift A-Frame 3280 / 4777 +1.13 / 3049 / 4127 +0.00 / 2827 / 3548 -5.47 / 2614 / 3035 -16.07 / 2412 / 2583 -32.60 / 2221 / 2190
220 Gr. Nosler Partition 3050 / 4543 +1.52 / 2771 / 3750 +0.00 / 2507 / 3069 -7.07 / 2260 / 2495 -20.95 / 2031 / 2015 -43.31 / 1819 / 1616
Hope this helps the last figure in the colunms are at 500yds.
Conley Precision ammo is outstanding. The one in the middle is what I use and like. Thanks for playing
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
thanks Gator, so a 165 grain at 1000yds and your talking about 1750 to 1850 fps and 1050to 1250 ft lbs? that pretty marginal, and I guess you would need to use a ballistic tip or similar to get much expansion if you planned on shooting that kind of distance?
Hey TOPGUN, I understand everything you have posted here. What I don't understand, and maybe it's all in interpretation, is your seeming superiority to ones that do not agree with you. Having passion for our sport has nothing to do with the yardage of a shot as much as you may think it does. mtmuley
Apexmtnman
Active Member
- Messages
- 591
117.16 a box! Man I'm glad I reload. I wouldn't be doing much practicing at those prices.
30/378 Weatherby
----------------------------- Program Inputs ---------------------------------+
| |
+---- Bullet Inputs -----+----Atmosphere Inputs ----+-------Sight Inputs ------+
| Caliber: 0.308 inches | Temperature: 59 degrees | Sight Height: 1.5 inches |
| Weight: 165 grains | Pressure: 29.92 inHg | Zero Range: 100 yards |
| G1 BC: 0.475 lb/in^2 | Humidity: 0 % | Look Angle: 0 degrees |
| G1 Form Factor: 0.523 | Density: 0.07647 lb/ft^3 | |
| MZL Velocity: 3600 fps| Wind Speed: 10 mph | |
| | Wind Direction: 3 O'clock| |
+------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------+
+----------------------------- Program Output ---------------------------------+
Range Velocity Energy Trajectory TOF Drift
(yards) (fps) (ft-lb) (inches) (sec) (inches)
0 3600 4748 -1.50 0.0000 0.00
100 3366 4150 0.00 0.0862 -0.51
200 3144 3621 -1.57 0.1784 -2.08
300 2933 3151 -6.67 0.2772 -4.80
400 2732 2734 -15.81 0.3832 -8.79
500 2540 2363 -29.62 0.4971 -14.18
600 2356 2034 -48.82 0.6197 -21.10
700 2180 1741 -74.30 0.7521 -29.73
800 2012 1483 -107.11 0.8953 -40.28
900 1852 1256 -148.53 1.0508 -52.98
1000 1700 1059 -200.10 1.2199 -68.08
30/378 Weatherby
----------------------------- Program Inputs ---------------------------------+
| |
+---- Bullet Inputs -----+----Atmosphere Inputs ----+-------Sight Inputs ------+
| Caliber: 0.308 inches | Temperature: 59 degrees | Sight Height: 1.5 inches |
| Weight: 165 grains | Pressure: 29.92 inHg | Zero Range: 100 yards |
| G1 BC: 0.475 lb/in^2 | Humidity: 0 % | Look Angle: 0 degrees |
| G1 Form Factor: 0.523 | Density: 0.07647 lb/ft^3 | |
| MZL Velocity: 3600 fps| Wind Speed: 10 mph | |
| | Wind Direction: 3 O'clock| |
+------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------+
+----------------------------- Program Output ---------------------------------+
Range Velocity Energy Trajectory TOF Drift
(yards) (fps) (ft-lb) (inches) (sec) (inches)
0 3600 4748 -1.50 0.0000 0.00
100 3366 4150 0.00 0.0862 -0.51
200 3144 3621 -1.57 0.1784 -2.08
300 2933 3151 -6.67 0.2772 -4.80
400 2732 2734 -15.81 0.3832 -8.79
500 2540 2363 -29.62 0.4971 -14.18
600 2356 2034 -48.82 0.6197 -21.10
700 2180 1741 -74.30 0.7521 -29.73
800 2012 1483 -107.11 0.8953 -40.28
900 1852 1256 -148.53 1.0508 -52.98
1000 1700 1059 -200.10 1.2199 -68.08
LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-11 AT 08:27PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-11 AT 08:08?PM (MST)
mtmuley---I have no idea why you think I have an "I'm superior to you" attitude any more than I might think the same of you just because we disagree on something. Cripes, there are two other individuals that get on this site all the time and make me look like a Saint when it comes to trying to make everybody feel like they are all wrong but themselves on numerous subjects! I'm sure you can figure out who I'm talking about because it's pretty easy to see if you have been on here any amount of time. I'm going to argue my case or stance on things and you can do the same. As long as it stays on target without attacking the person themselves, I feel that's fine. We will agree to disagree, life will go on, and that's what makes the world go around. As I stated earlier, be thankful I'm a passionate hunter and am just fighting to keep our sport intact, rather than an anti. Then you should and would have real problems with me, LOL!!!
mtmuley---I have no idea why you think I have an "I'm superior to you" attitude any more than I might think the same of you just because we disagree on something. Cripes, there are two other individuals that get on this site all the time and make me look like a Saint when it comes to trying to make everybody feel like they are all wrong but themselves on numerous subjects! I'm sure you can figure out who I'm talking about because it's pretty easy to see if you have been on here any amount of time. I'm going to argue my case or stance on things and you can do the same. As long as it stays on target without attacking the person themselves, I feel that's fine. We will agree to disagree, life will go on, and that's what makes the world go around. As I stated earlier, be thankful I'm a passionate hunter and am just fighting to keep our sport intact, rather than an anti. Then you should and would have real problems with me, LOL!!!
