Blackwater Mercinaries?

huntindude · Sep 19, 2007

Why do we hire mercinaries to protect diplomats and US assets in Iraq? I'm not trying to start an argument I really don't know. don't we have the needed military personel? aren't they up to the task? does someone like Haliburton make more money hiring contractors like this? is it so when they screw up we can blame them rather than our leadership?

All travel outside the green zone is banned because of what the Iraqi PM says is the seventh time Blackwater employees have smoked innocent Iraq civilians. he wants Blackwater fired but the US has suspended them while an investigation is conducted, now some Iraqis are promising revenge against the Americans for the latest killings of Iraqi civilians. why do we hire guns like this ? maybe it would have happened even with our military forces but crap like this is why Iraq is and will stay a mess. one step forward and two steps back, and this is with the 10% of the Iraqis who don't already hate us.

NeMont · Sep 19, 2007

I really do not know how Blackwater came to be the security force for U.S. Diplomats and others. I do know there is a huge contingent of U.S. contractors in Iraq.

Blackwater is just one of many private armed contractors in Iraq. There are several things that complicate the picture as well. Who does Blackwater answer too? They are not subject to USMJ nor have they been prosecuted under U.S. law. They work with relative impunity in Iraq.

While PBS is a very biased source generally the show FrontLine is usually factual and presents different views of issues. I would suggest you start there for some info or at least a little eye opener to the issue of private contractors in Iraq.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/view/

Nemont

viking421a · Sep 19, 2007

WOW! must the liberal bias spew out from you in every post? Try to do some research outside of watching the liberal media's twist on what happened.

As nemont said blackwater is just one of the many armed contractors we use over there for a variety of jobs. They are predominantly all former US special forces and are highly trained. Blackwater is one of the best training facilities in the US for military and police personnel.

The blackwater people who were there insist that they were attacked by insurgents and that they were defending themselves.

huntindude · Sep 19, 2007

I didn't say they were no good, why are we hiring mercinaries? it doesn't matter if they were defending themselves or not, if the Iraqi PM says they're gone then they're gone, another of many set backs in Iraq. sure another outfit will replace them but why is it our military doesn't handle this and keep the soldiers of fortune out of a US military operation? it wouldn't have anything to do with the fact we can't get enough recruits and that with all these hired guns we don't have to list them as troops deployed or anything like that would it? don't question it ,it's all good right?

RELH · Sep 19, 2007

What Dude is saying that he prefers our military should do the baby sitting for all persons that may be a target of insurgents, that would include many civilian persons.
Also our military should be the ones who are training the Iraq police, as if the military has great experience in doing law enforcement work. Send home all those experienced law enforcement officers and FBI that work for the private contractors and are training the Iraq police agencies.
On the other side of the coin, if we did this, Dude would then be b!tching about the misuse of our military assets in being used as private guards for civilians and teaching the Iraq police metholds of house entry by use of grenades instead of door kicking. No matter what you say, or even prove as fact, Dude is not going to except it due to his extreme hatred of Bush and our goverment while under President Brush. No matter what, he must find fault even if he has to invent that fault. Don't you pity him for his miserable life that he must be living feeling like this.
It either pity him, or wonder if he is most stupid person you have ever encountered for his many, I am only asking a question while he goes into his tirade.

RELH

Huntnfever · Sep 19, 2007

wow, i just want to say is have any of you actually been to iraq? The military does do alot of security, but you can only do so much...These mercinarys are being paid to be put in more danger then the troops. Most are former special forces. What would you rather do be in the military making 40,000 a year, or doing the same thing and getting paid 150,000. The bottom line is military is under-paid and people are getting tired of 3-4 times of being in the desert....

life2extreme · Sep 19, 2007

LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-07 AT 09:49PM (MST)[p]>wow, i just want to say
>is have any of you
>actually been to iraq?
>The military does do alot
>of security, but you can
>only do so much...These mercinarys
>are being paid to be
>put in more danger then
>the troops. Most are
>former special forces. What
>would you rather do be
>in the military making 40,000
>a year, or doing the
>same thing and getting paid
>150,000. The bottom line
>is military is under-paid and
>people are getting tired of
>3-4 times of being in
>the desert....

Unless we impliment a draft we do not have enough "boots on the deck" to cover these kinds of missions in this new type of war that we are fighting. And I don't see to many people wanting to give up their cush jobs to do such a thing. I was glad they have people willing to do those kinds of security missions over there. Driving along "MSR Mobile(by the way there are tanks every 3000 meters) for hours on end. Taking us away from places like Ramadi, Kharma, Haditha, Husayba, all the "hot spot" most of the bad guys are training and living in anyway. It left the "real" fighting to us in the city's with some buddies close by to cover our back.

I see most Iraqi civilians as Muj anyway. If they have EVER turned away from an insurgent while he was planting and IED or something of that matter, they are just a guilty for not letting the proper authorities know about it.

I will stop ranting now.

Sgt Mike
USMC Infantry

Oh.. I wish I made 40 G's a year!!

Huntn, I'm on your side. As far as "them" being in more danger than the troops, for the most part you are right, but for those of us that are infantry I don't see that whatsoever.

Aim Center Mass

huntindude · Sep 19, 2007

I didn't say I was against hiring guns I actually don't understand the reasons why it's a good idea, but some of you have valid reasons. if our guys don't want the jobs soldiers of fortune want maybe we need to change the way we do things to keep it in house. as we now see there are draw backs to having contractors assume life and death decisions , there may be some advantages to that at times also I suppose. if we don't have enough GI's then maybe as Andy Rooney says we need to bring back the draft. if a war isn't worth everyone making a sacrifice then maybe it's not worth fighting, if it could effect you and yours it makes it much more than a tv show. does anyone know if Iraq has a higher percentage of mercinaries than previous wars ? I'm sure they've been involved in every war but to what degree?

I don't care if you're pro or anti Iraq war you have to admit this has shown we have a problem with the way our military is operating. if we have to hire private guns, hold our guys for as many tours as needed, extend their tours , call back retired personel and still can't get the troops needed we have a problem. even if you think Bush's surge is working it CAN NOT be maintained even if we wanted to. maybe the amount of hired guns in Iraq show we need to change the way we get and treat or service members, it may not just be a matter of Americans not thinking the war is worth it.

OK RELH you can go off about how I hate America or our soldiers or whatever substance induced rant you need to. through your foggy illutions you did nail one thing right though, I don't think much of Bush.

RELH · Sep 19, 2007

Dude;
I really do not "go off" on your tirades. I have reached the point that I truly believe you are one of the most ignorant persons that I have ever listen too outside of several politicians. I also believe that you are very good at talking out both sides of your mounth, but somehow still manage to let people know just how ignorant you really are.

P.S. I do not care what you think of me or my politics because I feel persons of your caliber does not rate consideration on their opinions. End of story.

RELH

202typical · Sep 19, 2007

Thank you RELH.

?Justice consists not in being neutral between right and wrong, but in finding out the right and upholding it, wherever found, against the wrong.?
---Theodore Roosevelt,

huntindude · Sep 20, 2007

I'm so hurt, and here I thought Bevis and Butthead liked me.

Dispite what you think I'm no liberal, you're just WAY far to the right. at least 202 debates though not too well sometimes, RELH wants to be a drama queen and stay on the personal attacks most of the time. niether one of you have anything to ad to the Blackwater subject here, is it you can't think that deep or is bantering like a couple school girls about how awful I am more fun. carry on , if you didn't amuse me I wouldn't hang around.

Huntnfever · Sep 20, 2007

yeah your right, infantry is out there alot more then most, and yeah 40k would be nice i never seen it out of 2 tours over there. Anyways especially marine infantry i have been there i seen the marine infantry and the army, at least there is someone who semi agrees with me, kinda figured it would be another devil dog

huntindude · Sep 21, 2007

Another thought on soldiers of fortune, todat the US government says Blackwater employees are being investigated for smuggling arms into Iraq, some may have ended up in the hands of insurgents. I still think leaving the fighting to our military makes more sense and makes a smoother operation. war may take money to fight, but it shouldn't be fought just for money, that breeds corruption. if we need to pay our guys more of even treat them decent with things like clean hospitals then so be it.

buglinbull2 · Sep 22, 2007

One interesting note about Blackwater and other contractors. Blackwater is trying to build it's forces to a point of where they can go into a country, like Sudan and perform a "police" action, at a fraction of the cost of sending our own troops. Basically, they want to be a total and complete army for hire.

What do you guys think? Sending a private army over instead of our own?

Another thing to point out. Initially, Blackwater was formed by an ex-Seal, and thus attracted ex-SEALS for employment. Sweet!
Unfortunately, there are only so many SEALS coming out of service. So Blackwater is pretty much taking anyone that can pass their training course. Even Huntindude has a chance to work for Blackwater, or any of the other contractors. You can make between $600-1200/day. Unfortunately, this makes the professionalism of the companies go down hill. Thus, you have Iraqi's claiming to be shot for no reason.
In the early days, when it was all former SPECOPS guys working for these contractors, I feel that it was ok. Now days, I think we are playing with fire. Any wannabe John Wayne can go to work.

huntindude · Sep 22, 2007

I could work there? 1200 bucks a day and whatever I could make selling illegal arms, I'll think about it.

The Iraqis have a video of Blackwater gaurds opening fire on the civilians, they were unprovoked. since these guys aren't military how will the Iraqis get to haddle this? or will they? the Iraqis want to try them for murder, if we honor their government as we say we do what will happen to these guys? interesting situation.

On another note in the latest news on Iraq, the Iraqi government ( Shiite ) is demanding that the US release an Iranian suspected of smuggling arms to the Shiite militias. still want to argue with me that Iran is more popular in Iraq than we are?