DoubleDropMuley
Very Active Member
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- 1,810
Any word when 2016 Application Booklet might be coming out? Been checking daily and haven't seen when it might be out. Just Curious
App Book
- Thread starter DoubleDropMuley
- Start date
ClearCreek
Active Member
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- 286
Should be about Dec 20 or 21. Word is G&F is launching a new version of "Plan Your Hunt" on the WGFD website. It is supposed to be a great improvement over the previous version.
Hunters can start applying online starting at 8:00 AM on January 4.
ClearCreek
Hunters can start applying online starting at 8:00 AM on January 4.
ClearCreek
DoubleDropMuley
Very Active Member
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Today is the day its up!!
DoubleDropMuley
Very Active Member
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No I believe that info will be out the first of may. G&F will have public meetings sometime end march into april with recommended quotas. Then they will release quotas after all meetings. Whatever they recommend is usually what they are as final quotas.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-15 AT 05:19PM (MST)[p]>So how do they know how
>many tags there giving non
>res? when the drawing in
>February
They have to know by the time they have the drawing in order to do it just like all the other animal drawings. The statute for elk spells out the total amount of bull tags to be given to NRs and any that are left are given as general tags in a drawing to those who have it as their second choice. Because the drawing for elk is so early about the only thing you can do is look at the allocations for last year and hope they don't change much. Once the drawing is completed the draw results will be put up in the odds section of the website and you'll be able to see how many NR tags were given in each unit and as general tags.
Two big changes are being made for 2016. One is the PP application period for NRs is being extended to 10/31. The other is that if things go as planned refunds will be put back on your credit card, rather than a paper check being mailed out. That will mean that the card expiration date will have to be at least a couple months after the application date to do that. If it isn't, they will then have to issue a paper check and that will take longer and take more money out of their budget than doing the credit card system.
>many tags there giving non
>res? when the drawing in
>February
They have to know by the time they have the drawing in order to do it just like all the other animal drawings. The statute for elk spells out the total amount of bull tags to be given to NRs and any that are left are given as general tags in a drawing to those who have it as their second choice. Because the drawing for elk is so early about the only thing you can do is look at the allocations for last year and hope they don't change much. Once the drawing is completed the draw results will be put up in the odds section of the website and you'll be able to see how many NR tags were given in each unit and as general tags.
Two big changes are being made for 2016. One is the PP application period for NRs is being extended to 10/31. The other is that if things go as planned refunds will be put back on your credit card, rather than a paper check being mailed out. That will mean that the card expiration date will have to be at least a couple months after the application date to do that. If it isn't, they will then have to issue a paper check and that will take longer and take more money out of their budget than doing the credit card system.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-15 AT 11:32PM (MST)[p]
You can file a public info request and submit $50 and they will send you the total quota, from which they derive the nr allotments. Some tag quotas may change from the previous year but not many from what I saw when I filed a cpl years ago. I got that one free but what I saw wasn't worth $50 I can tell you that. Never filed again.
Quotas will be published the end of March for the public meetings beginning in April.
Hopefully 2017 will see the Elk app period the same as Antelope/Deer.
You can file a public info request and submit $50 and they will send you the total quota, from which they derive the nr allotments. Some tag quotas may change from the previous year but not many from what I saw when I filed a cpl years ago. I got that one free but what I saw wasn't worth $50 I can tell you that. Never filed again.
Quotas will be published the end of March for the public meetings beginning in April.
Hopefully 2017 will see the Elk app period the same as Antelope/Deer.
>I always thought they did the
>NR license allocations for elk
>based on percentages of the
>total # of tags issued
>in the prior year.
As WB just mentioned, that stays pretty constant and the total issued is set by statute and has to be met each year for elk. The only way there would be less issued would be if there were not enough applicants for those tags.
>NR license allocations for elk
>based on percentages of the
>total # of tags issued
>in the prior year.
As WB just mentioned, that stays pretty constant and the total issued is set by statute and has to be met each year for elk. The only way there would be less issued would be if there were not enough applicants for those tags.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-15 AT 11:27AM (MST)[p]I think you guys are talking two different things.
Gunner is talking the 7,250 total NR full price Elk quota and SD is talking the Dept quota used to allocate for the NR Elk draw. Those two numbers are different.
>I always thought they did the
>NR license allocations for elk
>based on percentages of the
>total # of tags issued
>in the prior year.
SD:
I went back and looked at my data and got to unit 2 to see the first discrepancy.
2013 Elk Final
type 1, 30
type 4, 60
quota used for 2014 NR Elk
type 1, 130
type 4, 20
The initial 2014 quota used for unit 2 was also the Commission finalized quota so that hunt met the requirement that quotas be approved by the Commission although approval was after the draw took place.
Gunner is talking the 7,250 total NR full price Elk quota and SD is talking the Dept quota used to allocate for the NR Elk draw. Those two numbers are different.
>I always thought they did the
>NR license allocations for elk
>based on percentages of the
>total # of tags issued
>in the prior year.
SD:
I went back and looked at my data and got to unit 2 to see the first discrepancy.
2013 Elk Final
type 1, 30
type 4, 60
quota used for 2014 NR Elk
type 1, 130
type 4, 20
The initial 2014 quota used for unit 2 was also the Commission finalized quota so that hunt met the requirement that quotas be approved by the Commission although approval was after the draw took place.
SDBugler
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,203
Bob
I understand the limit of 7,250 and the sequence of how the draws are performed until that limit is used up.
It always confused me on how they established a number to determine the nonresident percentage for the LQ tags. I assumed that they used the quota from he previous year to establish the NR quotas. However, if what you say above is true, then they must have some type of "preliminary" quota that they use to determine the number of NR tags. If they in fact do have a "preliminary" quota, then why don't they make that information available prior to the application deadline?
I understand the limit of 7,250 and the sequence of how the draws are performed until that limit is used up.
It always confused me on how they established a number to determine the nonresident percentage for the LQ tags. I assumed that they used the quota from he previous year to establish the NR quotas. However, if what you say above is true, then they must have some type of "preliminary" quota that they use to determine the number of NR tags. If they in fact do have a "preliminary" quota, then why don't they make that information available prior to the application deadline?
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-15 AT 01:43PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-15 AT 01:40?PM (MST)
Yea, it's kind of hard to have a NR Elk draw without a quota which is what prompted my inquiry. I never asked the "why don't you just publish the numbers" question. I was told straight up I needed to file a public info request the next time I wanted them though. I was also told they use the previous years numbers but that isn't always the case as I discovered.
Statute requires Commission approval of tag quotas if I remember correctly. Exactly "when" that approval needs to be done? I don't know.
Jeff and Buzz have been looking into it some and may comment on their findings. A later Elk draw date would fix the issue.
I could go thru and compare the numbers used for the NR draw and the numbers used for the public meetings and see if they're the same but it would be easier to just call and ask if that's what they do.
Yea, it's kind of hard to have a NR Elk draw without a quota which is what prompted my inquiry. I never asked the "why don't you just publish the numbers" question. I was told straight up I needed to file a public info request the next time I wanted them though. I was also told they use the previous years numbers but that isn't always the case as I discovered.
Statute requires Commission approval of tag quotas if I remember correctly. Exactly "when" that approval needs to be done? I don't know.
Jeff and Buzz have been looking into it some and may comment on their findings. A later Elk draw date would fix the issue.
I could go thru and compare the numbers used for the NR draw and the numbers used for the public meetings and see if they're the same but it would be easier to just call and ask if that's what they do.
ClearCreek
Active Member
- Messages
- 286
LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-15 AT 08:40PM (MST)[p]This from the License Issuing section of the G&F Regulations from the G&F website:
(iv) Elk. A total license limit of seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) nonresident
elk licenses shall be made available to nonresident applicants in the initial drawing each year. Reduced
price cow/calf elk licenses and leftover limited quota elk licenses described in this Chapter may be made
available to nonresidents in addition to the limit of seven thousand two hundred fifty (7,250). Sixteen
percent (16%) of the total available limited quota full price and reduced price cow/calf elk licenses shall
initially be offered to nonresidents in the nonresident elk initial drawing. The order of the nonresident elk
initial drawings described in this section shall be Nonresident Landowner Licenses, Nonresident Special
Licenses, and then Nonresident Regular Licenses. Following the Nonresident Landowner License
Drawing, licenses available in the initial drawing from the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) limit
shall be allocated as follows: The allocation of remaining licenses after the nonresident landowner drawing
shall be forty percent (40%) to the Nonresident Special License Drawing and sixty percent (60%) to the
Nonresident Regular License Drawing. If the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota is not
issued in the initial nonresident drawings, the Department may achieve the seven thousand two hundred fifty
(7,250) license quota by issuing general elk licenses. Licenses remaining for limited quota areas
resulting from this procedure may be made available in the resident elk initial drawing.
I have also heard G&F would prefer to have the NR drawing later, like the deer and antelope drawing, but outfitters want to have a much earlier drawing so they have more time to market their services and recruit hunters.
ClearCreek
(iv) Elk. A total license limit of seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) nonresident
elk licenses shall be made available to nonresident applicants in the initial drawing each year. Reduced
price cow/calf elk licenses and leftover limited quota elk licenses described in this Chapter may be made
available to nonresidents in addition to the limit of seven thousand two hundred fifty (7,250). Sixteen
percent (16%) of the total available limited quota full price and reduced price cow/calf elk licenses shall
initially be offered to nonresidents in the nonresident elk initial drawing. The order of the nonresident elk
initial drawings described in this section shall be Nonresident Landowner Licenses, Nonresident Special
Licenses, and then Nonresident Regular Licenses. Following the Nonresident Landowner License
Drawing, licenses available in the initial drawing from the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) limit
shall be allocated as follows: The allocation of remaining licenses after the nonresident landowner drawing
shall be forty percent (40%) to the Nonresident Special License Drawing and sixty percent (60%) to the
Nonresident Regular License Drawing. If the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota is not
issued in the initial nonresident drawings, the Department may achieve the seven thousand two hundred fifty
(7,250) license quota by issuing general elk licenses. Licenses remaining for limited quota areas
resulting from this procedure may be made available in the resident elk initial drawing.
I have also heard G&F would prefer to have the NR drawing later, like the deer and antelope drawing, but outfitters want to have a much earlier drawing so they have more time to market their services and recruit hunters.
ClearCreek
The dept has a quota for each hunt code, prior to the nr draw, and nr are allotted 16% of each. There is no back averaging. That 16% gets chewed on by the nr land owners before it gets re distributed to the nr public draw. Simply taking 16% of an initial hunt code quota won't get you to the correct numbers for all nr hunts.
jm77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,397
The Dept meets, usually in August, to discuss possible changes in elk quotas for the following year. Sometimes they use the prior year and sometimes they change based on new info. This can be good for certain areas and bad for others(LQ) as it pertains to resident & NR allocations. All this to hold the early NR elk drawing.
Apparently this drawing may be illegal. Statutes require the Commission to set seasons and quotas and the Dept is issuing NR licenses before that is done and before the public comment periods are held. It is a violation of the Administrative Procedures Act for Wyoming.
The 'cat is out of the bag' on this, as the Dept is going through an audit for the Gov's Task Force and the early draw has been brought up as an audit question. Bottom line, future NR elk drawings most likely will coincide with deer & antelope.
Apparently this drawing may be illegal. Statutes require the Commission to set seasons and quotas and the Dept is issuing NR licenses before that is done and before the public comment periods are held. It is a violation of the Administrative Procedures Act for Wyoming.
The 'cat is out of the bag' on this, as the Dept is going through an audit for the Gov's Task Force and the early draw has been brought up as an audit question. Bottom line, future NR elk drawings most likely will coincide with deer & antelope.
ClearCreek
Active Member
- Messages
- 286
>The Dept meets, usually in August,
>to discuss possible changes in
>elk quotas for the following
>year.
>
>Apparently this drawing may be illegal.
>Statutes require the Commission to
>set seasons and quotas and
>the Dept is issuing NR
>licenses before that is done
>and before the public comment
>periods are held. It is
>a violation of the Administrative
>Procedures Act for Wyoming.
>
>The 'cat is out of the
>bag' on this, as the
>Dept is going through an
>audit for the Gov's Task
>Force and the early draw
>has been brought up as
>an audit question. Bottom line,
>future NR elk drawings most
>likely will coincide with deer
>& antelope.
jm77:
Not sure where you get your info but I would suggest you find a different source.
The WGFD does not usually meet in August to discuss elk quotas for the following year. Preliminary numbers for limited quota areas are submitted later in the fall so the nonresident draw can be held the following February.
The real season setting discussions start in late December and January and the proposed seasons are ready to discuss with the public in early to mid-March.
The idea of changing the nonresident elk application period and draw to coincide with the nonresident antelope and deer application period was not even discussed by the Governor's Task Force.
ClearCreek
>to discuss possible changes in
>elk quotas for the following
>year.
>
>Apparently this drawing may be illegal.
>Statutes require the Commission to
>set seasons and quotas and
>the Dept is issuing NR
>licenses before that is done
>and before the public comment
>periods are held. It is
>a violation of the Administrative
>Procedures Act for Wyoming.
>
>The 'cat is out of the
>bag' on this, as the
>Dept is going through an
>audit for the Gov's Task
>Force and the early draw
>has been brought up as
>an audit question. Bottom line,
>future NR elk drawings most
>likely will coincide with deer
>& antelope.
jm77:
Not sure where you get your info but I would suggest you find a different source.
The WGFD does not usually meet in August to discuss elk quotas for the following year. Preliminary numbers for limited quota areas are submitted later in the fall so the nonresident draw can be held the following February.
The real season setting discussions start in late December and January and the proposed seasons are ready to discuss with the public in early to mid-March.
The idea of changing the nonresident elk application period and draw to coincide with the nonresident antelope and deer application period was not even discussed by the Governor's Task Force.
ClearCreek
jm77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,397
>jm77:
>
>Not sure where you get your
>info but I would suggest
>you find a different source.
>
>
>The WGFD does not usually meet
>in August to discuss elk
>quotas for the following year.
> Preliminary numbers for limited
>quota areas are submitted later
>in the fall so the
>nonresident draw can be held
>the following February.
>
>The real season setting discussions start
>in late December and January
>and the proposed seasons are
>ready to discuss with the
>public in early to mid-March.
>
>
>The idea of changing the nonresident
>elk application period and draw
>to coincide with the nonresident
>antelope and deer application period
>was not even discussed by
>the Governor's Task Force.
>
>ClearCreek
Interesting comments, however I stand by what I said.
I was told by Dept employees, the preliminary meetings on elk quotas were in August. If that is not true, two different redshirts told me the same story. And yes, they have to finalize in Dec before the ap book(online) comes out.
As for the audit question on the early NR elk draw; I never said it was discussed in the Task Force meetings , did I? By no means is everything being audited, discussed previously in the Task Force meetings. That would take a few more meetings than what has been held.It helps ClearCreek, to have the facts on something before you attempt to correct someone.
>
>Not sure where you get your
>info but I would suggest
>you find a different source.
>
>
>The WGFD does not usually meet
>in August to discuss elk
>quotas for the following year.
> Preliminary numbers for limited
>quota areas are submitted later
>in the fall so the
>nonresident draw can be held
>the following February.
>
>The real season setting discussions start
>in late December and January
>and the proposed seasons are
>ready to discuss with the
>public in early to mid-March.
>
>
>The idea of changing the nonresident
>elk application period and draw
>to coincide with the nonresident
>antelope and deer application period
>was not even discussed by
>the Governor's Task Force.
>
>ClearCreek
Interesting comments, however I stand by what I said.
I was told by Dept employees, the preliminary meetings on elk quotas were in August. If that is not true, two different redshirts told me the same story. And yes, they have to finalize in Dec before the ap book(online) comes out.
As for the audit question on the early NR elk draw; I never said it was discussed in the Task Force meetings , did I? By no means is everything being audited, discussed previously in the Task Force meetings. That would take a few more meetings than what has been held.It helps ClearCreek, to have the facts on something before you attempt to correct someone.
ClearCreek
Active Member
- Messages
- 286
jm77:
You said:
"As for the audit question on the early NR elk draw; I never said it was discussed in the Task Force meetings , did I?"
The following is from your earlier post:
"The 'cat is out of the bag' on this, as the Dept is going through an audit for the Gov's Task Force and the early draw has been brought up as an audit question. Bottom line, future NR elk drawings most likely will coincide with deer & antelope."
This sure sounds to me like you said it!
As far as this comment you made:
"It helps ClearCreek, to have the facts on something before you attempt to correct someone."
I do have the facts, that is the reason I posted what I did. I simply asked you to find a better source for your info; because they are giving you false info.
ClearCreek
You said:
"As for the audit question on the early NR elk draw; I never said it was discussed in the Task Force meetings , did I?"
The following is from your earlier post:
"The 'cat is out of the bag' on this, as the Dept is going through an audit for the Gov's Task Force and the early draw has been brought up as an audit question. Bottom line, future NR elk drawings most likely will coincide with deer & antelope."
This sure sounds to me like you said it!
As far as this comment you made:
"It helps ClearCreek, to have the facts on something before you attempt to correct someone."
I do have the facts, that is the reason I posted what I did. I simply asked you to find a better source for your info; because they are giving you false info.
ClearCreek
jm77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,397
>jm77:
>
>You said:
>
>"As for the audit question on
>the early NR elk draw;
>I never said it was
>discussed in the Task Force
>meetings , did I?"
>
>The following is from your earlier
>post:
>
>"The 'cat is out of the
>bag' on this, as the
>Dept is going through an
>audit for the Gov's Task
>Force and the early draw
>has been brought up as
>an audit question. Bottom line,
>future NR elk drawings most
>likely will coincide with deer
>& antelope."
>
>
>This sure sounds to me like
>you said it!
>
>
>As far as this comment you
>made:
>
>"It helps ClearCreek, to have the
>facts on something before you
>attempt to correct someone."
>
>
>I do have the facts, that
>is the reason I posted
>what I did. I
>simply asked you to find
>a better source for your
>info; because they are giving
>you false info.
>
>ClearCreek
Guess you don't understand the english language Art. Assume what you want, but my statement doesn't say the Task Force discussed it, no matter what it sounds like to you...it is a question the auditors are dealing with.
The public has input in the whole process, it is totally transparent.
I now know of five sources that have claimed G&F have met to discuss elk quotas in August. Guess they are all lying... unless that has recently changed.
Are you an Outfitter who's mad the draw might change? Or are you just naturally abrasive?
>
>You said:
>
>"As for the audit question on
>the early NR elk draw;
>I never said it was
>discussed in the Task Force
>meetings , did I?"
>
>The following is from your earlier
>post:
>
>"The 'cat is out of the
>bag' on this, as the
>Dept is going through an
>audit for the Gov's Task
>Force and the early draw
>has been brought up as
>an audit question. Bottom line,
>future NR elk drawings most
>likely will coincide with deer
>& antelope."
>
>
>This sure sounds to me like
>you said it!
>
>
>As far as this comment you
>made:
>
>"It helps ClearCreek, to have the
>facts on something before you
>attempt to correct someone."
>
>
>I do have the facts, that
>is the reason I posted
>what I did. I
>simply asked you to find
>a better source for your
>info; because they are giving
>you false info.
>
>ClearCreek
Guess you don't understand the english language Art. Assume what you want, but my statement doesn't say the Task Force discussed it, no matter what it sounds like to you...it is a question the auditors are dealing with.
The public has input in the whole process, it is totally transparent.
I now know of five sources that have claimed G&F have met to discuss elk quotas in August. Guess they are all lying... unless that has recently changed.
Are you an Outfitter who's mad the draw might change? Or are you just naturally abrasive?
Cahunter805
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,357
I personally like the NR elk app early. Gives me a chance to see if I'm drawn and plan accordingly for other hunts or plan something to coincide with the elk tag.
Now if only I could draw a tag!
Now if only I could draw a tag!
>I personally like the NR elk
>app early. Gives me a
>chance to see if I'm
>drawn and plan accordingly for
>other hunts or plan something
>to coincide with the elk
>tag.
>Now if only I could draw
>a tag!
There are a huge number of people that probably feel the same way, but the G&F has been violating their own statute for a long time and unless they would somehow change it they will have to start doing elk just like the deer and antelope.
>app early. Gives me a
>chance to see if I'm
>drawn and plan accordingly for
>other hunts or plan something
>to coincide with the elk
>tag.
>Now if only I could draw
>a tag!
There are a huge number of people that probably feel the same way, but the G&F has been violating their own statute for a long time and unless they would somehow change it they will have to start doing elk just like the deer and antelope.
wyobackcountry
Active Member
- Messages
- 476
>I personally like the NR elk
>app early. Gives me a
>chance to see if I'm
>drawn and plan accordingly for
>other hunts or plan something
>to coincide with the elk
>tag.
>Now if only I could draw
>a tag!
Hopefully this will be your year!
I'll be emailing you shortly.
>app early. Gives me a
>chance to see if I'm
>drawn and plan accordingly for
>other hunts or plan something
>to coincide with the elk
>tag.
>Now if only I could draw
>a tag!
Hopefully this will be your year!
I'll be emailing you shortly.
Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters
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