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Anyone know Aram Von Benedikt?

Homer said:
...any summary for the non fagbookers??
Click to expand...
A lady shot a smoker buck with a collar on. Then when going to retrieve said buck this other guy and son showed up. The woman verified several times the buck they “shot” from over 1000 yards did not have a collar. Then when she and her husband started following the blood the guy changed his tone, raced ahead of them on the blood trail, shot the collared buck 2 times more and claimed the deer.

It sounds messy…

But hey long range shooting is all the rage…
 
Here is the story, not my story, but man seems like a problem...

Deer Hunt 2023
I’ve debated posting this post because I don’t like contention and I don’t like putting others down in anyway. I feel I am a peacemaker, and I always try to see the good in others, and forgive quickly. But I feel I need to share my story so others can hopefully learn from this as well.
So Easton and I, went hunting this year, I finally drew a general Utah deer tag. I was so excited. I love hunting, but with three little girls at home, I haven’t been able to go as much in the last few years. So to be able to go, and have this opportunity with Easton, was pretty meaningful to me.
We hiked in with backpacks the night before opening day, about 20 minutes after light on opening morning, we spotted some bucks across from us. Easton helped me get set up and told me to shoot the buck with the collar. I took a shot at the buck in this photo. I missed my first shot. He hurried and got my gun on him again. Helping me, and watching as I took another shot. This time you could hear the difference, it was a solid hit. He didn’t move very far, and Easton helped me get ready to shoot again. I shot, and that shot was a definite hit as well. I knew it, and Easton also confirmed sitting next to me watching through his spotter. Easton said that we had just nailed him a second time. We watched where the deer headed and we were pumped!
We headed over to go check where we shot the deer. A few other hunters ran up to us. He said he shot at a deer, and that his dope was off and he knew he didn’t make a great shot. Easton said, “My wife shot a buck with a collar, did the buck you shoot at have a collar?” The man said, he did not shoot at a buck with a collar. His boy then confirmed saying he had watched the buck through a spotting scope and no collar. The man then confirmed that they knew that I had hit the buck, and that he shot after me. We told them exactly what happened for us. That I missed once, and hit the collared buck 2 times. Easton then asked the man where he was shooting from. The man confirmed from on top of those rocks in the distance. Easton ranged the location it was ≈1000 yards.
He told us to be quite because the deer he shot at, went up above from where we were standing and not below where the buck I had just shot went. We walked around for a min, and I soon confirm with Easton right where I shot the buck, there was blood and some hair. Slightly annoyed by the other hunters Easton and I started down the blood trail. After that, this guy gets super intense and says… wait! Slow down. He then pushed to the front of the blood trail. We were doing our best to be kind considering the situation. We all followed the blood trail for a minute. The man was trying to push past me and had his gun ready to shoot. He kept going faster and getting more aggressive. He turns to Easton and says “don’t worry, I’m not going to steal your wife’s deer” but continued forward. I said so let’s make this clear, the buck you shot at, was not collared correct? And he confirmed. I said “ok, so if this buck has a collar it is the buck I shot”. Easton, knowing we are getting closer, tells him we need to give the deer a minute, and not chase this buck. He tells the man again, my wife hit him twice, let’s just give him a minute. Of course this guy just runs ahead of us. As we run behind trying to keep up the man shoots off two shots. The man was standing over the dead deer.
His story changed immediately in so many ways… he all of a sudden “did” shoot this collared buck. He tells me I only maybe hit him one time. The deer had 4 shots in him. 2 were mine and the last 2 shots this man. But he changes his story that now one of those other shots were also his. He also tells Easton right in front of me, “Your wife doesn’t deserve a deer this big”. Who is this man to tell me what I deserve or what I don’t? So we debated a bit, and really tried to be kind and respectful in the process. I believe we were. He wanted to be in all of the pictures but Easton told him we were going to take pictures with my buck.
The man was basically claiming the deer from the moment he ran ahead of me and shot him. But of course he kept changing his story and in my opinion, manipulated the situation to his favor completely. I felt disrespected. He knew I was trying to avoid any fights or arguing, so we stayed calm, and he took advantage of that. He pushed past me to race down to the buck I had rightfully shot twice, and I know that deer would have expired. This was an experience of a lifetime, and he took that from me. He robbed me of my experience, and completely left me feeling down even to the point I was fighting hard to hold back tears.
My thoughts are, any decent sportsman, would have allowed us our space after we told him we had shot a buck 2 times and we were giving him a minute and going to look. He, his boy, and his friend, should have asked if we needed help, and if declined given us our space. I would never act the way that this man did. Easton and I would have found that deer, and had a completely different amazing experience. That I DID deserve… If the deer hoped up, I could have finished him off and that man could have given me that opportunity and been a good guy, instead of pushing past me and racing a girl half his size, down to my deer. He totally took advantage of the situation. As soon as he got to the deer he wouldn’t let go. He moved the animal, took pictures, and even said a prayer confirming his buck. We tried to stay as nice as possible but his lies continued. His story changed multiple times. He wasn’t willing to talk about it and said we would autopsy the deer to see what happened. Sure enough, the deer had 4 shots. My 2 shots with a 6.5 PRC and 2 were his where he had shot him from close range. We still tried to reason with him, and stand up for ourselves in the situation. He wasn’t budging at all.
We stayed at the buck for a few hours but there was no reasoning with the man, he was taking my deer. I looked at him and said. “We know we hit this deer twice”, and he basically called me a liar. But that was the truth and we had told him this from the first moment we saw him. He was not wearing orange on his head the entire time we saw the man. He moved and cut up the entire deer without tagging the animal. We were sick of arguing and decided to leave. I asked him if he had a tag and he claimed he did but never tagged the animal in front of us. We had been with them for hours.
We learned that we need to video future hunts to protect ourselves. We walked away and let him claim the deer. He wasn’t letting it go any other way. What had been the most amazing experience of my life, had quickly turned into one of the most devastating and heartbreaking experiences. He took advantage of our kindness, and he took advantage of a girl. He told me I wasn’t deserving. I would never even shoot at a buck another is shooting at, and I absolutely wouldn’t race someone down to a buck they rightfully shot, to try and make the last cowardly shot so I could claim the deer. I feel this man acted selfishly and was a poor example to his son in the process. I hope when he looks at that buck, he pictures my face and he remembers the lies he told and I hope he’s super proud of shooting my buck that obviously could not get away.
What did I learn? I learned I will stand up for myself more. I will not let a grown man manipulate the situation again. Easton tired his best to stand up to him, but I can tell you that his selfish motive was not going to budge. He did offer to get us a set of replicas made but it seemed as if this was an admittance of guilt. We walked away knowing the truth. And I will forever remember how we were honest, respectful, and kind. Let’s all teach ethics to our kids, and treat all with respect on the mountain.
And if he ever reads this post, I just want to say directly to him... You had an opportunity to let me finish what I rightfully started. You didn’t hit that buck until you ran up on it with 2 preexisting hits. You could have been a good example. Instead your selfish desire got in the way. I hope you know that this experience really hurt me. We were honest. And had the roles been reversed, we would have congratulated you and celebrated with you. I hope you can hunt with better ethics moving forward.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I know it was long. I’m sure his side of the story will paint a different picture. But Easton and I are honest people, and at the end of the day, we will always know the truth and that’s all that matters to us.
-Rachelle
** Also, Thanks East for being the best husband, I loved this time with you and I will remember it forever! The good and the bad, but mostly the good
?
Sitting under the stars that morning, I said a prayer in my heart, and thanked heavenly father for the life we have. I was overwhelmed with gratitude for you, and in that moment just felt so blessed to be your wife. Love you!
❤

*** Also thanks to my father and mother in law for helping with the kids so we could hunt both weekends. We appreciate you both so much. Russel Cox , big thanks for helping us try and get another opportunity at a buck this past weekend, and for all the laughs! I enjoyed the time spent with you! And for someone who just had a broken foot, you can hike! You and Julie are the best!
 
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I Guess where I Hunt Isn't So Bad!

There Ain't Hardly Any Bucks Left!

But Not Many Other Hunters Compared To Other Places!

And Even At that,If you Hunt Long Enough You'll Endure A Similar Situation Sooner Or Later!
 
cantkillathing said:
Deer Hunt 2023
I’ve debated posting this post because I don’t like contention and I don’t like putting others down in anyway. I feel I am a peacemaker, and I always try to see the good in others, and forgive quickly. But I feel I need to share my story so others can hopefully learn from this as well.
So Easton and I, went hunting this year, I finally drew a general Utah deer tag. I was so excited. I love hunting, but with three little girls at home, I haven’t been able to go as much in the last few years. So to be able to go, and have this opportunity with Easton, was pretty meaningful to me.
We hiked in with backpacks the night before opening day, about 20 minutes after light on opening morning, we spotted some bucks across from us. Easton helped me get set up and told me to shoot the buck with the collar. I took a shot at the buck in this photo. I missed my first shot. He hurried and got my gun on him again. Helping me, and watching as I took another shot. This time you could hear the difference, it was a solid hit. He didn’t move very far, and Easton helped me get ready to shoot again. I shot, and that shot was a definite hit as well. I knew it, and Easton also confirmed sitting next to me watching through his spotter. Easton said that we had just nailed him a second time. We watched where the deer headed and we were pumped!
We headed over to go check where we shot the deer. A few other hunters ran up to us. He said he shot at a deer, and that his dope was off and he knew he didn’t make a great shot. Easton said, “My wife shot a buck with a collar, did the buck you shoot at have a collar?” The man said, he did not shoot at a buck with a collar. His boy then confirmed saying he had watched the buck through a spotting scope and no collar. The man then confirmed that they knew that I had hit the buck, and that he shot after me. We told them exactly what happened for us. That I missed once, and hit the collared buck 2 times. Easton then asked the man where he was shooting from. The man confirmed from on top of those rocks in the distance. Easton ranged the location it was ≈1000 yards.
He told us to be quite because the deer he shot at, went up above from where we were standing and not below where the buck I had just shot went. We walked around for a min, and I soon confirm with Easton right where I shot the buck, there was blood and some hair. Slightly annoyed by the other hunters Easton and I started down the blood trail. After that, this guy gets super intense and says… wait! Slow down. He then pushed to the front of the blood trail. We were doing our best to be kind considering the situation. We all followed the blood trail for a minute. The man was trying to push past me and had his gun ready to shoot. He kept going faster and getting more aggressive. He turns to Easton and says “don’t worry, I’m not going to steal your wife’s deer” but continued forward. I said so let’s make this clear, the buck you shot at, was not collared correct? And he confirmed. I said “ok, so if this buck has a collar it is the buck I shot”. Easton, knowing we are getting closer, tells him we need to give the deer a minute, and not chase this buck. He tells the man again, my wife hit him twice, let’s just give him a minute. Of course this guy just runs ahead of us. As we run behind trying to keep up the man shoots off two shots. The man was standing over the dead deer.
His story changed immediately in so many ways… he all of a sudden “did” shoot this collared buck. He tells me I only maybe hit him one time. The deer had 4 shots in him. 2 were mine and the last 2 shots this man. But he changes his story that now one of those other shots were also his. He also tells Easton right in front of me, “Your wife doesn’t deserve a deer this big”. Who is this man to tell me what I deserve or what I don’t? So we debated a bit, and really tried to be kind and respectful in the process. I believe we were. He wanted to be in all of the pictures but Easton told him we were going to take pictures with my buck.
The man was basically claiming the deer from the moment he ran ahead of me and shot him. But of course he kept changing his story and in my opinion, manipulated the situation to his favor completely. I felt disrespected. He knew I was trying to avoid any fights or arguing, so we stayed calm, and he took advantage of that. He pushed past me to race down to the buck I had rightfully shot twice, and I know that deer would have expired. This was an experience of a lifetime, and he took that from me. He robbed me of my experience, and completely left me feeling down even to the point I was fighting hard to hold back tears.
My thoughts are, any decent sportsman, would have allowed us our space after we told him we had shot a buck 2 times and we were giving him a minute and going to look. He, his boy, and his friend, should have asked if we needed help, and if declined given us our space. I would never act the way that this man did. Easton and I would have found that deer, and had a completely different amazing experience. That I DID deserve… If the deer hoped up, I could have finished him off and that man could have given me that opportunity and been a good guy, instead of pushing past me and racing a girl half his size, down to my deer. He totally took advantage of the situation. As soon as he got to the deer he wouldn’t let go. He moved the animal, took pictures, and even said a prayer confirming his buck. We tried to stay as nice as possible but his lies continued. His story changed multiple times. He wasn’t willing to talk about it and said we would autopsy the deer to see what happened. Sure enough, the deer had 4 shots. My 2 shots with a 6.5 PRC and 2 were his where he had shot him from close range. We still tried to reason with him, and stand up for ourselves in the situation. He wasn’t budging at all.
We stayed at the buck for a few hours but there was no reasoning with the man, he was taking my deer. I looked at him and said. “We know we hit this deer twice”, and he basically called me a liar. But that was the truth and we had told him this from the first moment we saw him. He was not wearing orange on his head the entire time we saw the man. He moved and cut up the entire deer without tagging the animal. We were sick of arguing and decided to leave. I asked him if he had a tag and he claimed he did but never tagged the animal in front of us. We had been with them for hours.
We learned that we need to video future hunts to protect ourselves. We walked away and let him claim the deer. He wasn’t letting it go any other way. What had been the most amazing experience of my life, had quickly turned into one of the most devastating and heartbreaking experiences. He took advantage of our kindness, and he took advantage of a girl. He told me I wasn’t deserving. I would never even shoot at a buck another is shooting at, and I absolutely wouldn’t race someone down to a buck they rightfully shot, to try and make the last cowardly shot so I could claim the deer. I feel this man acted selfishly and was a poor example to his son in the process. I hope when he looks at that buck, he pictures my face and he remembers the lies he told and I hope he’s super proud of shooting my buck that obviously could not get away.
What did I learn? I learned I will stand up for myself more. I will not let a grown man manipulate the situation again. Easton tired his best to stand up to him, but I can tell you that his selfish motive was not going to budge. He did offer to get us a set of replicas made but it seemed as if this was an admittance of guilt. We walked away knowing the truth. And I will forever remember how we were honest, respectful, and kind. Let’s all teach ethics to our kids, and treat all with respect on the mountain.
And if he ever reads this post, I just want to say directly to him... You had an opportunity to let me finish what I rightfully started. You didn’t hit that buck until you ran up on it with 2 preexisting hits. You could have been a good example. Instead your selfish desire got in the way. I hope you know that this experience really hurt me. We were honest. And had the roles been reversed, we would have congratulated you and celebrated with you. I hope you can hunt with better ethics moving forward.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I know it was long. I’m sure his side of the story will paint a different picture. But Easton and I are honest people, and at the end of the day, we will always know the truth and that’s all that matters to us.
-Rachelle
** Also, Thanks East for being the best husband, I loved this time with you and I will remember it forever! The good and the bad, but mostly the good View attachment 124714 Sitting under the stars that morning, I said a prayer in my heart, and thanked heavenly father for the life we have. I was overwhelmed with gratitude for you, and in that moment just felt so blessed to be your wife. Love you! View attachment 124715
*** Also thanks to my father and mother in law for helping with the kids so we could hunt both weekends. We appreciate you both so much. Russel Cox , big thanks for helping us try and get another opportunity at a buck this past weekend, and for all the laughs! I enjoyed the time spent with you! And for someone who just had a broken foot, you can hike! You and Julie are the best!
Click to expand...
Just take you time and wait till this jerk post his bragging pics then get right on that site and tell your story..put a little rain on that jerks glory
 
I just came across this on FB and was wondering how quickly it would make it here on MMs. I know there’s always two sides to a story and her side seems very genuine and authentic. I’m interested to hear his response.

I’ve also hunted with enough women to know that they generally, “say it how it is” and don’t sugarcoat much which I appreciate.
 
what was she doing out of the kitchen?

Women are rational, clearly it’s the man’s fault.

She shoots a 6.5. I rest my case
 
Well Aram gave a comment on his facebook. Both stories seem to be honest and sincere, looks like an ugly nightmare for both parties...hope I never have to be in this situation.
 
cantkillathing said:
Well Aram gave a comment on his facebook. Both stories seem to be honest and sincere, looks like an ugly nightmare for both parties...hope I never have to be in this situation.
Click to expand...
It's a train wreck. Dudes getting tore apart. No one knows the true story of how it went down except the ones that were there. He did admit she hit it first. Crazy messy situation. Agreed I hope it's something I never have to be apart of also.
 
Supposedly this Aram dude lives in Arizona if I remember right. So lets keep that in mind. But this dude was bragging about in his other post on FB that he had 5 tags in 5 states and was going to get big bucks in all 5 states. Looks like he did that at all costs. And he is an author too, of some type.
If she shot it 1st, then it is hers, in my eyes. But this dude seems like a prick. So I am pretty sure Trinuts will defend him.
 
From FB here is what he posted

HERE ARE THE FACTS (Deer Hunt 2023)

Friday (day before the deer opener) my son and my hunting buddy and I backpacked into a desert area to hunt mule deer. Both my buddy and I had dedicated hunter permits. We set up camp and then went scouting. We planned to hunt a canyon face in the morning (opening day).

As we hiked back toward camp we ran into Easton and Rachelle. We were all friendly, visited briefly, and we informed them that we planned to hunt the canyon face in the morning. We parted.

At dawn we spotted three bucks, but they moved behind a screen of trees and I wasn’t able to shoot. I was prone and ready, just needed them to step clear for a shot. Then Rachelle began shooting. The deer we were watching didn’t move, so we thought they were shooting a different buck. Her first two shots sounded like misses (which they later corroborated). Her third shot sounded like a hit. She shot once more for a total of four shots. There was no sound of a hit from the last shot. She was shooting roughly 630 yards.

The three bucks we were watching came running out from behind the trees and none of them showed signs of injury. I said to my son “she must have killed a different deer”. The biggest buck was trotting sideways to me, then he stopped, quartered away, and I shot. I should have taken the time to range him, but I didn’t. My shot went low due to the additional distance and struck him in the right front leg. The impact was obvious and as he ran now his leg was not working. I was frustrated by making a bad hit. The range was 730 yards. I hadn’t realized he was moving away as well as sideways, and failed to dial for the additional range.

We encountered the other couple casting around in the oaks. They were talking loudly and Easton told me he’d lost sight of their buck at the fourth shot, and never could find him again. They figured he was dead right in that area. I told him I’d also shot a buck, but that he had made off, and showed them exactly where he had traveled. They asked if the buck was wearing a collar and my son and I both answered that we had not seen a collar, but didn’t know. We NEVER said he didn’t have a collar. Just that we hadn’t seen one.

Rachelle found blood and it followed the exact route I had pointed out my buck had traveled. I figured it was the buck I shot, they figured it was the buck she shot. We took up the trail, and they hurried to get ahead of us. I trotted to catch up with them and asked them to work together. I told Easton I was not going to steal his wife’s deer – that when we recovered it we would look at the facts and determine who the buck belonged to. I was hoping their buck was still lying dead back in the oak brush like they’d originally thought.

I do feel badly that Rachelle felt like I was pushy. I do get intense when I’m trying to recover a wounded animal, and in this case I knew that we needed to push the buck to keep it bleeding. If the buck was allowed to bed up and his wound coagulated he would be nearly impossible to track down and recover. I did suggest to Rachelle that she carry her rifle ready for action in case the buck got up in front of us and she had a chance to finish it.

We finally jumped the buck and got him running again, and bleeding. The trail was easy from there on, and shortly we caught up with the buck in the bottom of a small canyon. I shot him, he took off down the wash, and I ran and shot him again. Easton and my son were with me.

We then took time to try to enjoy the harvest, and take photos. It was not like she portrayed – we all took photos, and I was happy for them to take photos. In fact I took a number of photos of them myself. Just goes to show you how a person can skew information.

When I first saw the buck in the canyon bottom I saw the collar and realized for sure that we’d been shooting at the same buck. Now, had I known before I shot the first time that she had hit it, I never would have shot at it. But the buck showed no sign of injury when it was trotting prior to my shot, and I believed Rachelle must have shot a different buck.

Now we had a problem. Contrary to the atmosphere she portrayed in her post, the scene was very cordial. There were no raised voices, no profanity, no meanness. I suggested we perform an autopsy to determine exactly how many shots had hit the buck. We found four:
1) Her shot, which had entered the skin just above the bottom line and just behind the belly button, then entered the abdominal cavity, then passed underneath the guts (it’s the first abdominal hit I’ve ever seen that I don’t believe would have been lethal), then exited the abdominal lining and the skin, leaving about a 3/4 inch hole, which was plugged tight with caul fat (the webbed-looking fat that surrounds the stomach). But for a small spot of wet hair around the entrance there was no blood or fluid draining from either entrance or exit hole.
2) My first shot was in the right front leg, which almost completely severed the knee. I’m not proud of that shot, but it’s what provided a blood trail and enabled us to trail the buck. We know with certainty that I made this wound because we watched it happen.
3) A close-range pass-through shot low through the chest, likely through heart.
4) A second close-range pass-through shot, center chest, likely through lungs and top of heart.

That was all folks. There were no more holes in the deer. Easton insisted that they’d hit the buck twice, but there were no more holes, and he hadn’t actually seen the second impact. I expressed my opinion – and yes, I used that word – that they were mistaken and had not connected other than the one shot that clipped the buck’s belly. I NEVER called either of them a liar, as she said in her post.

So there you have it.

I can’t describe how sad I feel as I write this. I had hoped that we could be friends, or at least remain honest and forthright. But it seems bitterness has corrupted that possibility.

In the end, Rachelle first and then Easton agreed to let me have the deer, and I assured them I would get a reproduction made for them at my cost. Everyone’s hearts were heavy. It was a really unfortunate ordeal for everyone.

And yes, I tagged the deer once it was decided who would take it home, before leaving the site. I have photos to prove it.

In her post Rachelle misrepresented what happened in so many ways. I never did change my story. I wish I had recorded the entire episode so you all could listen to exactly what happened.

Memories have a way of becoming twisted when bitterness reigns.

I NEVER told her that she didn’t deserve a deer that big! What I did say was that I felt like peoples first deer shouldn’t be monsters. I do believe that. But the conversation had been about a buck Easton lost to another hunter on a different occasion.

I feel like she really threw me under the bus with her statement about my wanting to be in all the pictures. That was low. I remember all parties being quite cordial and friendly, and I sure as heck didn’t try to resist them getting photos with the buck. In fact, I was happy to take some of them. Why didn’t she mention that in her post? And the way that she threw dirt on my desire to give thanks for the harvest is sad too – they supported the idea and thanked me afterward. Seems pretty low down to use a person’s faith against them.

I do feel truly bad that Rachelle felt disrespected. I never, never intended to make her feel that way. She didn’t appear to feel that way at the time. I tried hard to use logic and a scientific approach to determine who had killed the deer. Once we established that we each hit the deer, and then I finished it off, it is my honest opinion that I killed the deer., and that my expertise was the reason we were able to recover the deer.

It is my opinion that they would not have recovered the buck. Her wound was not quickly lethal, if ever, and was leaving zero blood to trail. Without my hit leaving a blood trail we (they) never would have found that buck. (Unless they had access to the tracking data from the bucks collar. Did they? Is that how they knew where to hunt?)

In her post Rachelle called me out for not wearing orange on my head – and she was right. I wear a hat, and I’ve lost my orange band that I usually wear on it. I need to rectify that.
I will mention that there was a seriously illegal act performed during the follow up (not by my group), but I prefer to not make a statement that might get anyone in trouble.

Fact is, folks, I thought that we worked through the entire unpleasant episode in well-mannered fashion. I had hoped to remain friends with them. And I’m very disappointed that they decided to distort the truth and throw me under the proverbial bus. I hope that someday you guys will come to believe that I honestly did my best to determine what was right, that day in the canyon.

Those are the facts folks. And I have witnesses.
 
Weird stuff like this happens, but made even weirder in advent of social media. Once a guy wanted to wrestle my uncle or his buddy for a duck he claimed he shot…. It was settled with a coin flip. They could have settled with a coin flip or maybe a good old fashioned Indian leg wrestling match… just saying
 
It is interesting in his post that he is trying to come across as cordial and a nice guy and then accuses them of have access to the collar data in order to find the deer. Talk about bitter, I guess as a writer for Outdoor life he is the only one with the expert knowledge to find a buck.
 
lundellhunting7 said:
From FB here is what he posted

HERE ARE THE FACTS (Deer Hunt 2023)

Friday (day before the deer opener) my son and my hunting buddy and I backpacked into a desert area to hunt mule deer. Both my buddy and I had dedicated hunter permits. We set up camp and then went scouting. We planned to hunt a canyon face in the morning (opening day).

As we hiked back toward camp we ran into Easton and Rachelle. We were all friendly, visited briefly, and we informed them that we planned to hunt the canyon face in the morning. We parted.

At dawn we spotted three bucks, but they moved behind a screen of trees and I wasn’t able to shoot. I was prone and ready, just needed them to step clear for a shot. Then Rachelle began shooting. The deer we were watching didn’t move, so we thought they were shooting a different buck. Her first two shots sounded like misses (which they later corroborated). Her third shot sounded like a hit. She shot once more for a total of four shots. There was no sound of a hit from the last shot. She was shooting roughly 630 yards.

The three bucks we were watching came running out from behind the trees and none of them showed signs of injury. I said to my son “she must have killed a different deer”. The biggest buck was trotting sideways to me, then he stopped, quartered away, and I shot. I should have taken the time to range him, but I didn’t. My shot went low due to the additional distance and struck him in the right front leg. The impact was obvious and as he ran now his leg was not working. I was frustrated by making a bad hit. The range was 730 yards. I hadn’t realized he was moving away as well as sideways, and failed to dial for the additional range.

We encountered the other couple casting around in the oaks. They were talking loudly and Easton told me he’d lost sight of their buck at the fourth shot, and never could find him again. They figured he was dead right in that area. I told him I’d also shot a buck, but that he had made off, and showed them exactly where he had traveled. They asked if the buck was wearing a collar and my son and I both answered that we had not seen a collar, but didn’t know. We NEVER said he didn’t have a collar. Just that we hadn’t seen one.

Rachelle found blood and it followed the exact route I had pointed out my buck had traveled. I figured it was the buck I shot, they figured it was the buck she shot. We took up the trail, and they hurried to get ahead of us. I trotted to catch up with them and asked them to work together. I told Easton I was not going to steal his wife’s deer – that when we recovered it we would look at the facts and determine who the buck belonged to. I was hoping their buck was still lying dead back in the oak brush like they’d originally thought.

I do feel badly that Rachelle felt like I was pushy. I do get intense when I’m trying to recover a wounded animal, and in this case I knew that we needed to push the buck to keep it bleeding. If the buck was allowed to bed up and his wound coagulated he would be nearly impossible to track down and recover. I did suggest to Rachelle that she carry her rifle ready for action in case the buck got up in front of us and she had a chance to finish it.

We finally jumped the buck and got him running again, and bleeding. The trail was easy from there on, and shortly we caught up with the buck in the bottom of a small canyon. I shot him, he took off down the wash, and I ran and shot him again. Easton and my son were with me.

We then took time to try to enjoy the harvest, and take photos. It was not like she portrayed – we all took photos, and I was happy for them to take photos. In fact I took a number of photos of them myself. Just goes to show you how a person can skew information.

When I first saw the buck in the canyon bottom I saw the collar and realized for sure that we’d been shooting at the same buck. Now, had I known before I shot the first time that she had hit it, I never would have shot at it. But the buck showed no sign of injury when it was trotting prior to my shot, and I believed Rachelle must have shot a different buck.

Now we had a problem. Contrary to the atmosphere she portrayed in her post, the scene was very cordial. There were no raised voices, no profanity, no meanness. I suggested we perform an autopsy to determine exactly how many shots had hit the buck. We found four:
1) Her shot, which had entered the skin just above the bottom line and just behind the belly button, then entered the abdominal cavity, then passed underneath the guts (it’s the first abdominal hit I’ve ever seen that I don’t believe would have been lethal), then exited the abdominal lining and the skin, leaving about a 3/4 inch hole, which was plugged tight with caul fat (the webbed-looking fat that surrounds the stomach). But for a small spot of wet hair around the entrance there was no blood or fluid draining from either entrance or exit hole.
2) My first shot was in the right front leg, which almost completely severed the knee. I’m not proud of that shot, but it’s what provided a blood trail and enabled us to trail the buck. We know with certainty that I made this wound because we watched it happen.
3) A close-range pass-through shot low through the chest, likely through heart.
4) A second close-range pass-through shot, center chest, likely through lungs and top of heart.

That was all folks. There were no more holes in the deer. Easton insisted that they’d hit the buck twice, but there were no more holes, and he hadn’t actually seen the second impact. I expressed my opinion – and yes, I used that word – that they were mistaken and had not connected other than the one shot that clipped the buck’s belly. I NEVER called either of them a liar, as she said in her post.

So there you have it.

I can’t describe how sad I feel as I write this. I had hoped that we could be friends, or at least remain honest and forthright. But it seems bitterness has corrupted that possibility.

In the end, Rachelle first and then Easton agreed to let me have the deer, and I assured them I would get a reproduction made for them at my cost. Everyone’s hearts were heavy. It was a really unfortunate ordeal for everyone.

And yes, I tagged the deer once it was decided who would take it home, before leaving the site. I have photos to prove it.

In her post Rachelle misrepresented what happened in so many ways. I never did change my story. I wish I had recorded the entire episode so you all could listen to exactly what happened.

Memories have a way of becoming twisted when bitterness reigns.

I NEVER told her that she didn’t deserve a deer that big! What I did say was that I felt like peoples first deer shouldn’t be monsters. I do believe that. But the conversation had been about a buck Easton lost to another hunter on a different occasion.

I feel like she really threw me under the bus with her statement about my wanting to be in all the pictures. That was low. I remember all parties being quite cordial and friendly, and I sure as heck didn’t try to resist them getting photos with the buck. In fact, I was happy to take some of them. Why didn’t she mention that in her post? And the way that she threw dirt on my desire to give thanks for the harvest is sad too – they supported the idea and thanked me afterward. Seems pretty low down to use a person’s faith against them.

I do feel truly bad that Rachelle felt disrespected. I never, never intended to make her feel that way. She didn’t appear to feel that way at the time. I tried hard to use logic and a scientific approach to determine who had killed the deer. Once we established that we each hit the deer, and then I finished it off, it is my honest opinion that I killed the deer., and that my expertise was the reason we were able to recover the deer.

It is my opinion that they would not have recovered the buck. Her wound was not quickly lethal, if ever, and was leaving zero blood to trail. Without my hit leaving a blood trail we (they) never would have found that buck. (Unless they had access to the tracking data from the bucks collar. Did they? Is that how they knew where to hunt?)

In her post Rachelle called me out for not wearing orange on my head – and she was right. I wear a hat, and I’ve lost my orange band that I usually wear on it. I need to rectify that.
I will mention that there was a seriously illegal act performed during the follow up (not by my group), but I prefer to not make a statement that might get anyone in trouble.

Fact is, folks, I thought that we worked through the entire unpleasant episode in well-mannered fashion. I had hoped to remain friends with them. And I’m very disappointed that they decided to distort the truth and throw me under the proverbial bus. I hope that someday you guys will come to believe that I honestly did my best to determine what was right, that day in the canyon.

Those are the facts folks. And I have witnesses.
Click to expand...
That made it worse IMO
 
HntHrdr said:
Weird stuff like this happens, but made even weirder in advent of social media. Once a guy wanted to wrestle my uncle or his buddy for a duck he claimed he shot…. It was settled with a coin flip. They could have settled with a coin flip or maybe a good old fashioned Indian leg wrestling match… just saying
Click to expand...

I can't imagine anyone fighting over "river liver". When I duck hunt, I always try to hunt with someone whom actually likes eating waterfowl and I give them all of mine. If not I'll eat em as a last resort... I have a freezer full of better eating animal flesh.
 
Outdoordan said:
I can't imagine anyone fighting over "river liver". When I duck hunt, I always try to hunt with someone whom actually likes eating waterfowl and I give them all of mine. If not I'll eat em as a last resort... I have a freezer full of better eating animal flesh.
Click to expand...
Right? Haha dabblers can make decent table fare ( which is about the only thing I will shoot these days) but divers is like signing up to eat fish oil pills with extra fish taste
 
I really don't like any of it to be honest. My wife has a good recipe for "duck a l'orange", with a Mexican touch to it (she's Mexican). But still, Elk or Duck? No brainer, I'm going with Elk or anything else in the freezer.
 
HntHrdr said:
Right? Haha dabblers can make decent table fare ( which is about the only thing I will shoot these days) but divers is like signing up to eat fish oil pills with extra fish taste
Click to expand...

I had a buddy new to duck hunting, and he went out and shot a couple of mergansers. I told him they were really good eating, just cook it up in a frying pan. He invited his girlfriend over for a dinner. He called me cussing saying even his dog wouldn't eat it.
 
Sucky situation that happens sometimes on public lands, and it ahs been happening for decades, not just since the invention of LR shooting.

Personally, I would have given the Buck to the lady, since here shot would have probably been fatal eventually. However, the law in Utah states that whoever fires the killing shot is the rightful person to tag the animal. If you shoot an animal, and it gets away from you, you might lose it to someone else.
 
257Tony said:
Sucky situation that happens sometimes on public lands, and it ahs been happening for decades, not just since the invention of LR shooting.

Personally, I would have given the Buck to the lady, since here shot would have probably been fatal eventually. However, the law in Utah states that whoever fires the killing shot is the rightful person to tag the animal. If you shoot an animal, and it gets away from you, you might lose it to someone else.
Click to expand...

Getting away from you and actively tracking a wounded are two entirely different things.

In this case, she hit first and he hit second. Neither first shot was a kill shot.

So, did he interfere with the lawful process of recovery from the shooter with the first hit? Tough to say since we don't know if a follow up shot from the gal would've been the kill shot.

This is a "center of the Tootsie Pop" question. The world may never know...
 
Nice Buck. Crappy situation.


It sounds like he wants to say that Easton took a follow-up shot for his wife. I don't know what else could be a "seriously illegal act performed during the follow up"
 
yoteduster said:
Looks to me like he'll say anything to make it look like he's the one wronged...
Click to expand...
Exactly! Insinuating that they did something illegal, possibly even having tracking data information. All the while, he admits he was breaking rules by not wearing any orange on his head.
 
Really fortunate that this didn't escalate to tragic levels in the field. Sounds like one side bullied and the other submitted which probably kept everyone from bleeding and/or going to jail.

In today's world, they should have split the meat and made a reproduction so both could enjoy the 'trophy' that they made a piss poor mess of killing.

I would have volunteered to take the repro, then kept hunting. Plus, with a repro, you could use a cape that didn't have all the hair worn off from that ugly collar. Wins for everyone........except the deer that got to die a slow death being gutshot by a lady who couldn't 'set up' her own gun and having it's leg blown off by a jackass media hero who was shooting beyond his ability. ------SS
 
Oh, it happens in California too. I was hunting Modoc County for big mule deer one year. I was hunting sidehill along a trail when I heard a shot fired above me. This big 4X4 comes running down the mountain and collapses in the trail I was on. It was moments away from dying when two Mexicans I hadn't seen run up and they both shoot it again.

Then the guy who originally shot it showed up as one Mexican was trying to tag it. I told him what happened, and we went up to them and neither one of them spoke English. They refused to even look at us. The original shooter wasn't pressing it too hard so I stayed out of it after that because it wasn't my business, but the Mexicans ended up with the buck.
 
mtnrunner260 said:
No orange and not tagging before processing is self admitted it seems.
He should at least get a visit from a CO.
Click to expand...
Yep. Wonder what the "seriously illegal act" was. If a CO officer visits him, I'm sure he'll let them know.

From what the two parties posted, it appears they both made non-lethal shots on the same deer. Who's to say one group or the other would or would not have found it.
 
lundellhunting7 said:
From FB here is what he posted

HERE ARE THE FACTS (Deer Hunt

Rachelle found blood and it followed the exact route I had pointed out my buck had traveled. I figured it was the buck I shot, they figured it was the buck she shot. We took up the trail, and they hurried to get ahead of us. I trotted to catch up with them and asked them to work together. I told Easton I was not going to steal his wife’s deer – that when we recovered it we would look at the facts and determine who the buck belonged to. I was hoping their buck was still lying dead back in the oak brush like they’d originally thought.




1) Her shot, which had entered the skin just above the bottom line and just behind the belly button, then entered the abdominal cavity, then passed underneath the guts (it’s the first abdominal hit I’ve ever seen that I don’t believe would have been lethal), then exited the abdominal lining and the skin, leaving about a 3/4 inch hole, which was plugged tight with caul fat (the webbed-looking fat that surrounds the stomach). But for a small spot of wet hair around the entrance there was no blood or fluid draining from either entrance or exit hole.


It is my opinion that they would not have recovered the buck. Her wound was not quickly lethal, if ever, and was leaving zero blood to trail.
Click to expand...

Aram, says at first the buck was bleeding from Rachel's shot and they followed the blood trail to the point that he hit the buck. But when he did his examination he concluded that her shot never drew any blood.
If he is such a expert and professional you would think he could proof read his own post.
He says he could tell the buck was not seriously wounded from Rachel's shot but had no idea where she hit it.
I was so nauseated from reading about his expertise I really had a tough time getting through the whole post.
 
From what I can get out of this? He is a bully, and the way he explained his side, just a know it all that forced his agenda and took that girls deer because he is a jackass and is full of ****.

If Aram is on MM, let's hear from him?
How about it Aram?
Explain how you bullied a young girl out of her deer and feel good about that?
 
Last edited:
I honestly don't want to see Aram explain anything. I don't want to see the girl explain anything. I don't want to see the husband explain anything.

I wish this entire thing would go away. It makes hunters look horrible. From the moment the sun rose that day this entire event was an unmitigated 5hit5how on all parts. The antis are going to have an f'ing field day with this. TRUST ME THEY LOOOOOOVE ANIMALS DYING IN PAIN THAT ARE WEARING COLLARS. They'll have a name on this deer by the end of this week.

Stuff like this needs to be handled like divorces. Quietly with no winners.
 
They are both idiots and neither one deserve the buck... Anyway you cut it it sucks... To allow him to take the deer and then turn around and make a mess of the situation on Social Media is childish and shows a lack of maturity and integrity on her part. His response sucks because while his story is believable and provides more perspective he is acting like a victim. It sounds like he was the one who put the kill shot on the buck. Which under law means he tags the animal. To have the woman (this is not a little girl as some assert) This is an adult, who by her own word couldn't even get the gun on the deer, had to have someone else line the gun up, she had her chance to make a killing shot. It does not sound like she made a kill shot. If she had proof otherwise then she can provide that proof.

On the flipside he is a moron for taking a shot so far that he could not even see the collar, taking a shot at a deer moving and well over 700 yard, wounding a deer in a manner that would not be lethal any time soon. At that point, it should not matter who was following what blood, it is about ending the suffering of the buck ASAP. Which is what he did, If she could not even find the buck in the scope on her own, and her first 3 shots all sucked, how would she ever be able to run a track, jump the buck and put on a kill shot. It is obvious she lacked the skills for such a situation...

He would have been much better off just posting his version without any attempt to degrade or suggest that he was wronged.
 
treedagain said:
From what I can get out of this? He is a bully, and the way he explained his side, just a know it all that forced his agenda and took that girls deer because he is a jackass and is full of ****.

If Aram is on MM, let's hear from him?
How about it Aram?
Explain how you bullied a young girl out of her deer and feel good about that?
Click to expand...
I would argue that this is not a young girl. It was a woman with a child. An adult who by her own admission could not even work the rifle. Having to have someone else put the gun on the deer. She had 3 opportunities to anchor that buck and failed to do so. It appears he is the one that anchored the buck and if his as the killing shot by law he is the one who tags it?
 
elks96 said:
I would argue that this is not a young girl. It was a woman with a child. An adult who by her own admission could not even work the rifle. Having to have someone else put the gun on the deer. She had 3 opportunities to anchor that buck and failed to do so. It appears he is the one that anchored the buck and if his as the killing shot by law he is the one who tags it?
Click to expand...
This is just my feeling on it, but if we are using the law as the foundation we’ve missed boat. Legal should be the worst case last option.

Plenty of blame to throw around here, but Aram injected himself into an active hunt. For me that’s enough, he acted poorly, the term bully is pretty accurate IMO.

I’ve been in that situation twice, once with a big deer and another time as a 17 year old with a spike elk that I shot on my own for the first time, one that I would have termed ‘mine’ with regard to hunt and kill. Those are tough to come by for teenagers, it meant something. I gave both animals away happily, because it was the right thing to do.

I hate agreeing with the Texan, but he is absolutely right about ‘handled like a divorce, quietly with no winners’.
 
Robiland said:
I would like to know why someone's 1st deer shouldnt be monsters? OK, I guess that makes it so she shouldnt get the deer? Some people!!!! This guy still sounds like a clown!
Click to expand...
Totally agree. Reading his post tells me a lot. Lots of reasoning. My opinion? Hunting is supposed to be fun. It was until he got involved, sounds like. I would have walked away. I have enough stress in my life, to let my destress activity become stressful. Some people attract trouble, not by coincidence. Im prepping to take my son hunting. I hope he shoots his biggest deer first, but that sure isn't the goal.
 
This is great story to show a young or inexperienced hunter. So many unethical happenings here, from both sides. It’s so bad that I would think it was a lesson in a hunter safety class rather than a real story. Every time I see stories like this it makes me lean more and more to optic limitations on hunters. I know there are quite a few ethical and qualified hunters shooting long range, but I’m sure those same hunters could get it done from 500 yards and in with a 12x scope. I hear of and see lots of incapable “Hunters” sitting on a landing somewhere with a rifle on a fixed tripod, tossing lead across a canyon hoping to hit something. I can’t describe this act as anything less than gross.
 
berrysblaster said:
This is just my feeling on it, but if we are using the law as the foundation we’ve missed boat. Legal should be the worst case last option.

Plenty of blame to throw around here, but Aram injected himself into an active hunt. For me that’s enough, he acted poorly, the term bully is pretty accurate IMO.

I’ve been in that situation twice, once with a big deer and another time as a 17 year old with a spike elk that I shot on my own for the first time, one that I would have termed ‘mine’ with regard to hunt and kill. Those are tough to come by for teenagers, it meant something. I gave both animals away happily, because it was the right thing to do.

I hate agreeing with the Texan, but he is absolutely right about ‘handled like a divorce, quietly with no winners’.
Click to expand...
On the flipside how was he supposed to know? I am sitting there looking for my target buck... I hear some shots, then the buck I was after or any buck for that matter comes busting out of the brush seemingly uninjured. It gives me a shot. I take the shot and I know for a fact that shot connected as the buck that ran into view uninjured is now carrying a leg and bleeding. At that point I really don't care what is going on, I just know that I screwed up and made a poor shot and I really only have one job/one goal. To find and finish the buck I just wounded... 2 sides to every story and I can see both of them being right... But neither of them took the higher road...

I had a similar situation as well. My wife and I had hiked in a mile plus before day break we were sitting on a little saddle waiting for day light. As legal light hit we hear gun shots from down the ridge near the road. 15 minutes later 3 doe and a decent 4x4 come through the saddle. The buck was keeping up with the doe just fine but had a limp. When the buck stopped bang flop. We get to the deer, snap a photo, validate tag by law, then start breaking him down. In the process we find where the deer had been shot in the foot of front leg. It was definitely the reason for his limp. We hurried, got the buck broken down and to the truck. If at any point in the process the other hunter who blew the shot showed up, would I have been wrong to keep the buck? I killed the buck I dethatched my tag, and had already began processing... How different is this case? Not sure there is a gray area where the stories overlap. But I sure cant blame the guy for working hard to finish off the buck he knew for a fact that he had wounded...
 
lif said:
This is great story to show a young or inexperienced hunter. So many unethical happenings here, from both sides. It’s so bad that I would think it was a lesson in a hunter safety class rather than a real story. Every time I see stories like this it makes me lean more and more to optic limitations on hunters. I know there are quite a few ethical and qualified hunters shooting long range, but I’m sure those same hunters could get it done from 500 yards and in with a 12x scope. I hear of and see lots of incapable “Hunters” sitting on a landing somewhere with a rifle on a fixed tripod, tossing lead across a canyon hoping to hit something. I can’t describe this act as anything less than gross.
Click to expand...
Agree 1000 times over... None of this would have happened if either one of them made a good shot. Or if either one of them actually hunted and did all they could to make the odds of a clean kill as high as possible.
 
Imagine how this could have played out differently for Aram had he helped her with his “expertise,” track and locate the buck, then selflessly allowed them to take it home. I would’ve enjoyed that article in OL much more than hearing about him achieve his goal of 5 bucks in 5 different states, or whatever it was.
#missed-opportunity
 
notdonhunting said:
Aram, says at first the buck was bleeding from Rachel's shot and they followed the blood trail to the point that he hit the buck. But when he did his examination he concluded that her shot never drew any blood.
If he is such a expert and professional you would think he could proof read his own post.
He says he could tell the buck was not seriously wounded from Rachel's shot but had no idea where she hit it.
I was so nauseated from reading about his expertise I really had a tough time getting through the whole post.
Click to expand...
I shot a bull in the heart yesterday from 30 yards that didnt show any signs of being hit for a lot longer than i thought possible...
 
elks96 said:
I would argue that this is not a young girl. It was a woman with a child. An adult who by her own admission could not even work the rifle. Having to have someone else put the gun on the deer. She had 3 opportunities to anchor that buck and failed to do so. It appears he is the one that anchored the buck and if his as the killing shot by law he is the one who tags it?
Click to expand...
Young girl/young lady whatever.....is it a crime to help someone set up to take a shot? I have 2 nieces that have taken some GREAT animals, is it wrong my brother and I have helped them get set up? Less of a trophy? Evidence shows she hit the deer 2 times and the only bullet he put in it was when he blew past her and shot it.

I can guarantee if that was my niece, granddaughter, wife, etc that dude would need help getting off the mountain. But it never would have gotten that far because bullys are cowards and cowards walk away when confronted.

He took that deer from her period...no way to argue otherwise.

He is a bully that took her deer to satisfy his ego.

How the hell can he feel good about it?
 
257Tony said:
Sucky situation that happens sometimes on public lands, and it ahs been happening for decades, not just since the invention of LR shooting.

Personally, I would have given the Buck to the lady, since here shot would have probably been fatal eventually. However, the law in Utah states that whoever fires the killing shot is the rightful person to tag the animal. If you shoot an animal, and it gets away from you, you might lose it to someone else.
Click to expand...

Tony, I have never seen that law in writing?
And your right the best move would have been to give it to her. Just let me take a pic, help them get it out of there and make it a positive experience out of one that could turn ugly, which it did.
 
Is anyone buying this dude’s BS? He even admitted he said this in his story: “I’m not going to steal you wife’s buck” and then immediately proceeds to do just that. Seriously mind blowing.

What kind of man or sportsman doesn’t do everything he can to have that woman shoot and kill that buck? Even if we buy entirely that he innocently came across the same buck at the shot site, from that second forward it should have been 100% about helping that lady find and kill that buck.

Goodness I have lots of negative things to say…so I should just stop typing.
 
elks96 said:
On the flipside how was he supposed to know? I am sitting there looking for my target buck... I hear some shots, then the buck I was after or any buck for that matter comes busting out of the brush seemingly uninjured. It gives me a shot. I take the shot and I know for a fact that shot connected as the buck that ran into view uninjured is now carrying a leg and bleeding. At that point I really don't care what is going on, I just know that I screwed up and made a poor shot and I really only have one job/one goal. To find and finish the buck I just wounded... 2 sides to every story and I can see both of them being right... But neither of them took the higher road...

I had a similar situation as well. My wife and I had hiked in a mile plus before day break we were sitting on a little saddle waiting for day light. As legal light hit we hear gun shots from down the ridge near the road. 15 minutes later 3 doe and a decent 4x4 come through the saddle. The buck was keeping up with the doe just fine but had a limp. When the buck stopped bang flop. We get to the deer, snap a photo, validate tag by law, then start breaking him down. In the process we find where the deer had been shot in the foot of front leg. It was definitely the reason for his limp. We hurried, got the buck broken down and to the truck. If at any point in the process the other hunter who blew the shot showed up, would I have been wrong to keep the buck? I killed the buck I dethatched my tag, and had already began processing... How different is this case? Not sure there is a gray area where the stories overlap. But I sure cant blame the guy for working hard to finish off the buck he knew for a fact that he had wounded...
Click to expand...
He couldn’t have known but the second he showed up and found them on the same blood trail, he should’ve immediately apologized, and then helped them recover her deer.

She shot first, was actively in pursuit of the buck that she’d wounded, and he jumped the line per-say and filled up his plate in their buffet line. Even if she hadn’t wounded it, he jumped the line, and IMO should’ve bowed out.

Instead it’s now just a public mess and he’s the one who is going to face the bulk of the consequences, she just ends up with the memory.

Again, above all else, how people choose to hunt is up to them, and at the end of the day if Aram feels good about what happened, kudos to him. Nothing egregiously illegal happened, and I’m not going to nitpick about orange, or tag cutting at the time of process.

It’s just a mess, and that’s the bottom line.
 

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