No more governors tags for AZ

[longranger]

The commission voted to get rid of governors/auction tags today. All special tags will be raffle or some type of competition after 2025. The amount of money lost from auctions vs raffles really isn't that much according to the numbers presented. Gonna be some pissed off rich guys and some pissed off guides now. I like it.

 

[elkhunterUT]

Could you send that commission to Utah stat?

We could use a few less auction tags here!!

 

[AZ8]

Now all they need to do on these new “raffle” tags is take away the 365 day season!!

 

[yotebuster17]

Now all they need to do on these new “raffle” tags is take away the 365 day season!!

What’s wrong with a few tags to raise a bunch of money with a liberal season? Sounds awesome to me.

 

[Pirogue]

They can raise money with lower priced raffles that the average Joe, that is in shape, could win and might even elect to DIY. Not some out of shape, sandwich shop owner.

 

[couesmagnet]

I like that they are getting rid of the auction tags.
Hopefully they go to the raffle.
Also there will be several giants that get to slip through now that there isn’t a massive bounty on their heads . Less guides in general out looking for those giants, and no one to sell them to for the bounty. Now the biggest of the big will have a chance of getting shot by joe blow.
Excellent news.

 

[BuzzH]

What’s wrong with a few tags to raise a bunch of money with a liberal season? Sounds awesome to me.

I'll tell you what's wrong, how about giving wildlife a break?

If you draw a tag good for anywhere in the state, hunt during the season like everyone else, or stay home. Having a statewide tag is enough.

365 day seasons are f-ing ridiculous, no need for that crap.

 

[DESKPOP]

The last couple years those pictures of 12 guides and one rich guy around an animal were enough to push people over the edge.

 

[couesmagnet]

Hunting’s become enough of a fake dog and pony show already. This move will take some of the pony out of the show.
Thank god the whole auction cheese ness tags are gone. It will also remove a lot of the cheese and fakeness out of the guiding sector part of it. Cleans the whole sport up a little bit here for Arizonans. Def brings some honesty back to the sport. Less cheese the better.

Best news in years for the sport.

 

[SS!]

Step in the right direction! Well done AZ!!!

 

[Moe]

Good for AZ! C'mon Utah,you can do it too.

 

[LIK2HNT]

The last couple years those pictures of 12 guides and one rich guy around an animal were enough to push people over the edge.

Some even had 4 times as many guys.
Most all of those guys buying auction tags were trigger pullers, not hunters.

 

[AZ8]

Those new limited entry draw tags(12) they introduced a couple years back showed them there’s plenty of money to be made without the circus of having 19 helpers and one shooter.

 

[Bluehair]

I honestly thought we would be the first state to dump the Guv tag. Our governor must be having a hissy fit.

 

[Noel Arnold]

Thank God my home state has finally done something good for the wildlife and how the anti hunters view us.Now if we can just start killing off the thousands of wild burro’s and millions of coyotes.

 

[LR31]

Thanks to Jimmy John.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Kudos to Arizona. Nothing is stopping Ol' Jimmy John from still making a donation for conservation and resource. The only difference is now he can't fly in and whack a bull when no one else is allowed to hunt. Let's see how much these guys actually care about the resource without getting a tag in return

 

[LR31]

Kudos to Arizona. Nothing is stopping Ol' Jimmy John from still making a donation for conservation and resource. The only difference is now he can't fly in and whack a bull when no one else is allowed to hunt. Let's see how much these guys actually care about the resource without getting a tag in return

Well said!

 

[Jerry]

The commission voted to get rid of governors/auction tags today. All special tags will be raffle or some type of competition after 2025. The amount of money lost from auctions vs raffles really isn't that much according to the numbers presented. Gonna be some pissed off rich guys and some pissed off guides now. I like it.

Finally got it done ! Praises to all involved!
This entire sick mess has plagued hunting for so many many years- B & C should trash & disallow all the previous fraud entries entered - buying your way into the Book was outrageous to begin with - period. Insult to injury- getting a big 501 -(3) C write off too yet !
While we’re at it, how about all those hot shots many years ago in Alaska & Canada who just dropped into the area by air to pop giant moose & caribou & Polar Bears via Bush Planes ??? Grab the barf bags !!

 

[2lumpy]

I honestly thought we would be the first state to dump the Guv tag. Our governor must be having a hissy fit.

New Mexico will fight you to be second in line. Bet you a ribeye blue.

 

[huntazido]

I have mixed thoughts on this and only time will tell if this is a good thing or not. In the meantime, I hope everyone that is happy about this opens up their wallet and makes a donation to their favorite hunting related 501c3.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

I have mixed thoughts on this and only time will tell if this is a good thing or not. In the meantime, I hope everyone that is happy about this opens up their wallet and makes a donation to their favorite hunting related 501c3.

I'm sure they will look how many populations have been brought back long before governors tags

 

[Homer]

And wise California, a couple years ago....took away the raffle tags....

 

[jims]

There are numerous grant funding sources available for wildlife habitat improvement projects that put more critters on the mountain and prairies!

Good for Arizona for standing up to the mess that has plagued the Western US in recent years!

 

[SS!]

And wise California, a couple years ago....took away the raffle tags....

And no one cared

 

[Weimer]

Good! Hopefully others follow.

 

[whitetailrick]

I really don't understand all this ENVY that people have with governor tags. Arizona where just about every huntable species is in decline and with record applications and population growth. I doubt that raffle sales will generate same income and benefits for the animals. Besides we have raffles already, do both. These animals and wildlife need all the financial help they can get. You people complaining are probably the same people that the rich don't pay their "fair share" in taxes, ENVY. Take all the wealth away from all billionaires and it would not effect you one bit, or lower your taxes, or improve your families life. The change to the governor tags will not change my odds or yours, into a realistic chance at a world class animal. But it probably will effect wildlife in this state. I say put our money where our mouths are and double the price of all resident and non resident tags, ear mark a specific percent to species habitat. Make no mistake it was ENVY pressure that drove this political decision.

 

[yoteduster]

That's a good thing.. Hopefully it carries on up to the north....too many getting fat wallets at our big games expense

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

I really don't understand all this ENVY that people have with governor tags. Arizona where just about every huntable species is in decline and with record applications and population growth. I doubt that raffle sales will generate same income and benefits for the animals. Besides we have raffles already, do both. These animals and wildlife need all the financial help they can get. You people complaining are probably the same people that the rich don't pay their "fair share" in taxes, ENVY. Take all the wealth away from all billionaires and it would not effect you one bit, or lower your taxes, or improve your families life. The change to the governor tags will not change my odds or yours, into a realistic chance at a world class animal. But it probably will effect wildlife in this state. I say put our money where our mouths are and double the price of all resident and non resident tags, ear mark a specific percent to species habitat. Make no mistake it was ENVY pressure that drove this political decision.

You admit the resource is fragile and declining yet we should give licenses that allow a 365 day hunting season?

 

[elkhunterUT]

I really don't understand all this ENVY that people have with governor tags. Arizona where just about every huntable species is in decline and with record applications and population growth. I doubt that raffle sales will generate same income and benefits for the animals. Besides we have raffles already, do both. These animals and wildlife need all the financial help they can get. You people complaining are probably the same people that the rich don't pay their "fair share" in taxes, ENVY. Take all the wealth away from all billionaires and it would not effect you one bit, or lower your taxes, or improve your families life. The change to the governor tags will not change my odds or yours, into a realistic chance at a world class animal. But it probably will affect wildlife in this state. I say put our money where our mouths are and double the price of all resident and non resident tags, ear mark a specific percent to species habitat. Make no mistake it was ENVY pressure that drove this political decision.

Not sure about your logic there (if Governors/auction tags were the answer to funding/perpetuating wildlife, then wouldn’t Utah be 30x ahead of other western states given we have over 350 auction tags??)

What is absolutely clear from your post is that you do not know what the word ENVY means.

 

[SS!]

I really don't understand all this ENVY that people have with governor tags. Arizona where just about every huntable species is in decline and with record applications and population growth. I doubt that raffle sales will generate same income and benefits for the animals. Besides we have raffles already, do both. These animals and wildlife need all the financial help they can get. You people complaining are probably the same people that the rich don't pay their "fair share" in taxes, ENVY. Take all the wealth away from all billionaires and it would not effect you one bit, or lower your taxes, or improve your families life. The change to the governor tags will not change my odds or yours, into a realistic chance at a world class animal. But it probably will effect wildlife in this state. I say put our money where our mouths are and double the price of all resident and non resident tags, ear mark a specific percent to species habitat. Make no mistake it was ENVY pressure that drove this political decision.

It’s your opinion it’s envy.

You said it yourself. Every animal is in decline in AZ. Not sure if that is true or not but it seems like 30+ years of auctioning off gov tags hasn’t turn the trend. What has these gov tags done?

They have made it an absolute chit show out there with tons of people looking for the biggest animal. The animals get no break unless they shed their antlers. Once they get big enough in late July/early August some are getting blasted. Planes, trail cameras, finders fees etc and all for what? “Conservation”.

If it’s really about conservation they will still donate, tag or not. And the licenses are not going away, just turning to raffle form. Which if marketed right will bring in just as much money. And a whole less of a clown show.

Like someone mentioned you may want to look up the word envy. Not seeing it on this thread

 

[LIK2HNT]

 

[Weimer]

I really don't understand all this ENVY that people have with governor tags. Arizona where just about every huntable species is in decline and with record applications and population growth. I doubt that raffle sales will generate same income and benefits for the animals. Besides we have raffles already, do both. These animals and wildlife need all the financial help they can get. You people complaining are probably the same people that the rich don't pay their "fair share" in taxes, ENVY. Take all the wealth away from all billionaires and it would not effect you one bit, or lower your taxes, or improve your families life. The change to the governor tags will not change my odds or yours, into a realistic chance at a world class animal. But it probably will effect wildlife in this state. I say put our money where our mouths are and double the price of all resident and non resident tags, ear mark a specific percent to species habitat. Make no mistake it was ENVY pressure that drove this political decision.

“Arizona where just about every huntable species is in decline” so please explain to me how the auction tags have helped if everything is in decline.

Secondly, maybe Arizona game and fish should stop paying influencers like Newburg and other leeches and focus their money on wildlife.

 

[HUNTINFORLIFE]

Won’t matter. The same guys buying the gov tag will flood the raffles and likely draw these tags most years. Unless they limit the tickets that can be purchased by one person. Which will not bring in the money they are expecting to make up if that happens.

 

[Weimer]

Wyoming pulled in 1.5 million on the super tag this year. I will have more of a chance with my one ticket then I do out bidding at auction.

 

[longranger]

Won’t matter. The same guys buying the gov tag will flood the raffles and likely draw these tags most years. Unless they limit the tickets that can be purchased by one person. Which will not bring in the money they are expecting to make up if that happens.

Rich guys aren't gonna flood the raffles because they aren't guaranteed the tag. Even if they do flood the raffle at least other people will have a chance all while making the same amount of money for wildlife. When there are 10,000 raffle tickets sold for a hunt, even if the rich guy buys 1000 tickets his odds aren't great. But if he wants to drop 25k trying for a 10% chance more power to him.

 

[whitetailrick]

You admit the resource is fragile and declining yet we should give licenses that allow a 365 day hunting season?

 

[whitetailrick]

Yes, Harvest ONE animal for the good of the entire species and all wildlife. 500K along with the energy of donated workers buys a lot of watering resources.

 

[whitetailrick]

“Arizona where just about every huntable species is in decline” so please explain to me how the auction tags have helped if everything is in decline.

Secondly, maybe Arizona game and fish should stop paying influencers like Newburg and other leeches and focus their money on wildlife.

Drought, predation, population encroachment just for starters.

 

[longranger]

Yes, Harvest ONE animal for the good of the entire species and all wildlife. 500K along with the energy of donated workers buys a lot of watering resources.

Everyone seems to think the end of the auction tag is the end of all of the money for wildlife. The presentation showed that doing all raffle tags instead of 1 raffle and two auction tags will provide more money for all species except elk, deer, and sheep. And the deficit caused by only raffle tickets for elk, deer, and sheep will not be significant. The difference will be able to be made up with a little better promoting of the raffle tags. There will still be plenty of money available for projects.

 

[whitetailrick]

It’s your opinion it’s envy.

You said it yourself. Every animal is in decline in AZ. Not sure if that is true or not but it seems like 30+ years of auctioning off gov tags hasn’t turn the trend. What has these gov tags done?

They have made it an absolute chit show out there with tons of people looking for the biggest animal. The animals get no break unless they shed their antlers. Once they get big enough in late July/early August some are getting blasted. Planes, trail cameras, finders fees etc and all for what? “Conservation”.

If it’s really about conservation they will still donate, tag or not. And the licenses are not going away, just turning to raffle form. Which if marketed right will bring in just as much money. And a whole less of a clown show.

Like someone mentioned you may want to look up the word envy. Not seeing it on this thread

“Arizona where just about every huntable species is in decline” so please explain to me how the auction tags have helped if everything is in decline.

Secondly, maybe Arizona game and fish should stop paying influencers like Newburg and other leeches and focus their money on wildlife.

What your saying that is the additional(@300-500K) money directed funded at MD, sheep, or antelope, elk projects would not be a benefit, REALLY?? FYI how do you know that these people who buy these tags haven't donated money to wildlife causes? Like I said we have raffles and they don't generate the dollars the gov tags do, sorry.

 

[whitetailrick]

View attachment 140176

Sounds about right to me.

 

[WapitiBob]

“Arizona where just about every huntable species is in decline” so please explain to me how the auction tags have helped if everything is in decline.

Secondly, maybe Arizona game and fish should stop paying influencers like Newburg and other leeches and focus their money on wildlife.

Newberg hasn't been paid in years.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

But he was paid and so were other "influencers"

 

[WapitiBob]

Yea so?

 

[Weimer]

Newberg hasn't been paid in years.

But he was. All the while filming shows which then he makes money off of.

 

[WapitiBob]

Considering his filming expenses are more than the income generated from youtube, maybe you should encourage him to make more and eventually he'll run out of money quit.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Yea so?

How about putting that money back into wildlife instead of HUSH and Newberg

 

[AZ71]

How about putting that money back into wildlife instead of HUSH and Newberg

I hated the fact that they paid those guys but it was a pretty good deal for the department from a business standpoint. They made a great deal of money off the exposure they got from those guys to put back into wildlife.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

I hated the fact that they paid those guys but it was a pretty good deal for the department from a business standpoint. They made a great deal of money off the exposure they got from those guys to put back into wildlife.

It cost a bunch of opportunity though didn't it with all the exposure of the previous OTC deer tags?

 

[WapitiBob]

How about putting that money back into wildlife instead of HUSH and Newberg

That money was never earmarked for wildlife, still isn't, and never will be. Same for marketing money at every other game dept.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

You can adjust your budget and not allocate so much for advertising can you not?

 

[SS!]

Considering his filming expenses are more than the income generated from youtube, maybe you should encourage him to make more and eventually he'll run out of money quit.

Is he still crying he isn’t making any money at it?

 

[SS!]

It cost a bunch of opportunity though didn't it with all the exposure of the previous OTC deer tags?

Exactly. Don’t try to convince the bergie though. Pretty obvious what he’s done to eastern MT, POW bear and he did have a part in AZ with the OTC archery now a thing of the past.

The sad part is he’s crying he’s not making money at it. If you’re going to whore out the wildlife and spot burn at least make money at it.

 

[BradA]

And wise California, a couple years ago....took away the raffle tags....

They still have auction tags though but took away the raffle tags which allowed everyone to have a chance.

 

[LIK2HNT]

They still have auction tags though but took away the raffle tags which allowed everyone to have a chance.

Never quite understood their reasoning for stopping the raffle tags. Calling it gambling. What do they think the draws are? You buy a license and pay an application fee for a chance at a tag.

 

[BradA]

Never quite understood their reasoning for stopping the raffle tags. Calling it gambling. What do they think the draws are? You buy a license and pay an application fee for a chance at a tag.

Agreed never understood it. Or there is the lotto that the state is fine with but when it comes to a raffle it’s considered gambling.

 

[money]

Good job Arizona! I am all for it and will support the other opportunity to raise the funds they are losing. I imagine most people will be happy to throw their hats in and support whatever they come up with since it means they have a chance at the tags and the huge circus with the auction tags and 80 guys on a hunt will have been eliminated. I never really liked the auction tags, but the Jimmy Johns bull and video pushed it over the limit for me. So i'd like to thank A3 for documenting the crap show so we could get this thing reversed!

 

[WapitiBob]

Is he still crying he isn’t making any money at it?

he's not the one crying

 

[WapitiBob]

You can adjust your budget and not allocate so much for advertising can you not?

send her an email and ask
[email protected]

 

[SS!]

he's not the one crying

Must be if you know he’s not making any money

If you’re going to be a whore make money!

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

send her an email and ask
[email protected]

Should I also ask her if paying all those influencers cost everyone hunting opportunities?

 

[Weimer]

Considering his filming expenses are more than the income generated from youtube, maybe you should encourage him to make more and eventually he'll run out of money quit.

Poor old all shucks Randy. Doesn’t make a dime off anything.
Are you gonna try to tell me he doesn’t make a dime off Fresh Tracks+ either. I’ll just go ahead and call bullshit on that now.

 

[yotebuster17]

Everyone seems to think the end of the auction tag is the end of all of the money for wildlife. The presentation showed that doing all raffle tags instead of 1 raffle and two auction tags will provide more money for all species except elk, deer, and sheep. And the deficit caused by only raffle tickets for elk, deer, and sheep will not be significant. The difference will be able to be made up with a little better promoting of the raffle tags. There will still be plenty of money available for projects.

They’re gonna issue a bunch more tags. Those special allocation tags they sold chances at last year were a pilot program. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for it, but they’re gonna kill 5-10 critters via raffle for every one they were killing via auction.

 

[longranger]

They’re gonna issue a bunch more tags. Those special allocation tags they sold chances at last year were a pilot program. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for it, but they’re gonna kill 5-10 critters via raffle for every one they were killing via auction.

I don't think the general hunting public cares so much about a few more animals being killed. They care more so about everyone having an equal chance at tags while still raising money.

 

[Homer]

I don't think the general public cares so much about a few more animals being killed. They care more so about everyone having an equal chance at tags while still raising money.

The "general public" has no clue about big game raffle tags or auction tags.....and we should be hoping it stays that way....

 

[longranger]

The "general public" has no clue about gig game raffle tags or auction tags.....and we should be hoping it stays that way....

Fixed it for you. General hunting public.

 

[AZ71]

It cost a bunch of opportunity though didn't it with all the exposure of the previous OTC deer tags?

There is still OTC deer tags. The AZ residents just got tired of all the NR coming down for the hunts and got the OTC tags for NR put at a 10% cap, something that should have been done long before the influencers showed up. Honestly OTC mule deer tags during the rut should be eliminated for both R and NR.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

I agree but lets be honest those numbers ballooned when those hunts were getting blasted all over social media by said influencers

 

[RdRdrFan]

Everyone seems to think the end of the auction tag is the end of all of the money for wildlife. The presentation showed that doing all raffle tags instead of 1 raffle and two auction tags will provide more money for all species except elk, deer, and sheep. And the deficit caused by only raffle tickets for elk, deer, and sheep will not be significant. The difference will be able to be made up with a little better promoting of the raffle tags. There will still be plenty of money available for projects.

Did the commission guaranty that the money from the raffle would be fully allocated towards those projects? Guessing not. That was the reason that the auction tags were good for the actual conservation of the species being hunted. The money went towards actual projects. Now the raffle money can go wherever the commission wants. Betting it doesn’t get allocated fully towards the same projects.

It’s a money grab. They saw how much money could be generated but they didn’t have meaningful control over how that money was being spent. So even if they do generate the same amount of money…….it won’t all go towards conservation.

They played off of the bitterness and envy of you guys to fulfill their desire to control the money. And you all ate it up like a bunch of sheep.

 

[elkhunterUT]

Did the commission guaranty that the money from the raffle would be fully allocated towards those projects? Guessing not. That was the reason that the auction tags were good for the actual conservation of the species being hunted. The money went towards actual projects. Now the raffle money can go wherever the commission wants. Betting it doesn’t get allocated fully towards the same projects.

It’s a money grab. They saw how much money could be generated but they didn’t have meaningful control over how that money was being spent. So even if they do generate the same amount of money…….it won’t all go towards conservation.

They played off of the bitterness and envy of you guys to fulfill their desire to control the money. And you all ate it up like a bunch of sheep.

Got it-so you’re a wolf, correct?

You keep telling yourself that

 

[RdRdrFan]

Got it-so you’re a wolf, correct?

You keep telling yourself that

Nope. Just don’t let myself be jealous of other folks success. These auction tags have had nothing but a positive effect on opportunities for the average hunter. But you bozos are too ticked at the fact that someone else can afford the opportunity or the way that they conduct their hunt to understand that the funds generated by the auction tags directly fund conservation projects.

Bunch of snowflakes with victim mentalities celebrating this decision.

 

[AZ71]

Nope. Just don’t let myself be jealous of other folks success. These auction tags have had nothing but a positive effect on opportunities for the average hunter. But you bozos are too ticked at the fact that someone else can afford the opportunity or the way that they conduct their hunt to understand that the funds generated by the auction tags directly fund conservation projects.

Bunch of snowflakes with victim mentalities celebrating this decision.

The raffle tags have also had nothing but a positive effect and the now 3 raffle tags will do the same. Your accusation about the money and how it is being spent is pure BS. The 3 raffle tickets will still all go to the HPCA and if you can prove it doesn't by all means please share.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Nope. Just don’t let myself be jealous of other folks success. These auction tags have had nothing but a positive effect on opportunities for the average hunter. But you bozos are too ticked at the fact that someone else can afford the opportunity or the way that they conduct their hunt to understand that the funds generated by the auction tags directly fund conservation projects.

Bunch of snowflakes with victim mentalities celebrating this decision.

Couldn't have been that positive. You should read the whole thread a few residents claim Arizona's numbers are declining and have been for years.

 

[WapitiBob]

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

So your down almost 300 rams from 2015-2022. and down almost 1500 total sheep from 2014. Yep better sell another governors tag

 

[Homer]

So your down almost 300 rams from 2015-2022. and down almost 1500 total sheep from 2014. Yep better sell another governors tag

Interesting numbers……2012-3065, 2013-1824, 2014-4052….wtf happened in 2013?

 

[BrianID]

Personally I did not have a problem with limited auction tags like AZ has done. They have generated significant $$ to help wildlife. I have no personal problem with Jimmy Jon or others like him. I'm not impressed by them either but they do kill some animals that are impressive. Having a posse of guides and killing a giant buck or bull outside of the season isn't any different than killing a high fenced animal in my opinion. B&C should put an * next to every animal killed in those situations.

Auction tags do not help public opinion of hunting and moving them to a raffle hunt was a good choice.

The problem with raffle tags is the one individual investing so much $$ that "extra effort" is placed on killing the biggest animal possible. That "extra effort" is not good for public opinion about hunting.

 

[RdRdrFan]

Nobody ever said that the funds from auction tags could single-handedly and completely reverse the effects of poor management decisions and years long droughts. You guys and your red herring arguments…….

As for proving where the funds WILL go, give it a few years. Doubt it will take that long. But neither of us can definitively prove something that hasn’t occurred yet.

And I’m all for raffles as long as the money actually goes to the mountain so to speak. I enter a ton of them and have never once purchased a governors tag. I’m just not ticked at someone else for my inability to justify paying that type of money for a tag.

 

[Homer]

One thing I fear....and I don't think it is an unfounded fear.......those banquet auctions sell LOTS of things....and the whales drive a lot of the excitement and high bidding by the not so big spenders....will the lack of auction tags lower the banquet take by more than just the auction tag??

 

[Elkoholic87]

This is the only the first step. More actions need to be taken. Just go on a late AZ rife hunt and you'll understand. It's a monster that the G&FD has created. It's unsustainable.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

My biggest issue is the 365 day hunting season. Who on earth thought that was a good idea?

 

[AZ71]

My biggest issue is the 365 day hunting season. Who on earth thought that was a good idea?

Curious as to what makes it a bad idea

 

[SS!]

Nope. Just don’t let myself be jealous of other folks success. These auction tags have had nothing but a positive effect on opportunities for the average hunter. But you bozos are too ticked at the fact that someone else can afford the opportunity or the way that they conduct their hunt to understand that the funds generated by the auction tags directly fund conservation projects.

Bunch of snowflakes with victim mentalities celebrating this decision.

Bullshit

 

[RdRdrFan]

Bullshit

Exactly the kind of well thought out reply I’ve come to expect from somone that cannot defend their position.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Curious as to what makes it a bad idea

Why do they need an entire year to fill a tag? How about giving the resource a break?

 

[AZ71]

Why do they need an entire year to fill a tag? How about giving the resource a break?

If you ever look at the pictures for the deer and elk they are almost always in velvet usually killed within weeks of the tag being valid and right before they strip their velvet and the regular hunts start. If you are also familiar with AZ you know hunts start in August and then there is an open season in one form or another every day until around late February. A break for about 6 weeks and then turkey and shed season. AZ isn't Wy., MT, CO, UT where they have super bad winters and large winter kills. I don't believe the animals being pursued by 3 tag holders and their posse's get that stressed from it.

 

[javihammer]

I think Arizona Game and Fish made a good decision getting rid of the auction tags but question the motives.

Arizona has gone in the wrong direction the last couple of years. We have a point guard tag return program that allows people to bonus up their average on group applications using the same tag donor TWICE. There are 501c3 groups reassigning those tags that are being run by many of the people that tried to create a tag raffle expo several years ago. Arizona Game and Fish then decided to give "priority" reassignment of returned tags to people that pay for an upgraded version of the point guard service. And now with electronic tags our tags our essentially crypto. Tags in Arizona have become way harder to track these days annd the people pulling the strings are less visible. Anyone that thinks reading the draw reports will give the full story on Arizona opportunity is a fool, the field isn't level.

What needs to happen is that all of the raffles and tag return processes need to be managed directly by the department, not by non profits. The "run it like a business" mentality of the last few years encourages more 501c3 middlemen to dig into the proceeds generated from the public wildlife resources owned by the residents of Arizona. Arizona doesn't need a marketing genius to market our tags, our quality sells itself and every dollar raised should directly support wildlife.

I worry that transferring control of the auction tags to 501c run raffles is actually a back door way to support expos and conventions in Arizona which will kill DIY hunting opportunity and subsidize the commercial interests that undermine the future of hunting here. If I were King, Arizona would only allow tag returns with a medical letter, most tags would be distributed through the state draw and less than a handful of very generous raffle tags would be raffled directly by AZGFD online. No reason to overcomplicate things, I sure hope I am wrong about the motives behind this.

Ryan

 

[huntazido]

AZGFD is going to need to make up that auction money. No way they are going to slaughter the milk cow and get rid of point guard. I can see them raising application fees and point guard fees but never getting rid of it.

Point guard should cost the same amount as a tag fee for that species if I were making the rules.

 

[Homer]

Right on Ryan....welcome to the world of NGO's.....the most corrupting thing our Governments have created.....From federal to local levels.....

 

[JPickett]

there are definitely ways to still weigh a raffle in your favor if you have enough money. after the first year, see how many raffle tickets were sold, second year. buy that many. not a sure thing but if your dropping 200-500 k on a gonveners tag and your odds are overwhelmingly in favor of drawing when you own half the pot a big fat rich sandwich guy can still get his tag pretty regular. may even be cheaper

 

[SlowElk]

there are definitely ways to still weigh a raffle in your favor if you have enough money. after the first year, see how many raffle tickets were sold, second year. buy that many. not a sure thing but if your dropping 200-500 k on a gonveners tag and your odds are overwhelmingly in favor of drawing when you own half the pot a big fat rich sandwich guy can still get his tag pretty regular. may even be cheaper

If my memory serves, which is highly suspect, there were a little over 12K tickets sold last year for elk. That would take 120K to buy about half the potential tickets. You are on to something, but I'm sure the big spenders have already figured that out, also. AZGFD will still get their money out of these tags.

 

[JPickett]

If my memory serves, which is highly suspect, there were a little over 12K tickets sold last year for elk. That would take 120K to buy about half the potential tickets. You are on to something, but I'm sure the big spenders have already figured that out, also. AZGFD will still get their money out of these tags.

I know a guy that did it for the Idaho super combo tag. It worked. And was easily 10’s of thousands less then if he bought those hunts individually

 

[huntazido]

I know a guy that did it for the Idaho super combo tag. It worked. And was easily 10’s of thousands less then if he bought those hunts individually

I'm just here to stir the pot a little as I am still not sure how I feel about what AZ is doing by getting rid of auction tags. In the case that you described above with your friend in Idaho, if that would happen here in AZ what do you think everyone would say? Do you think they would just congratulate the guy with deep pockets who bought a large percentage of raffle tickets and won the hunt? Or, do you think most will say the raffle was fixed because the rich guy won?

If 3 tags are raffled off for mule deer, they can buy $100k worth of raffle ticket for 1st drawing, if they don't win, buy $100k worth for 2nd drawing and if they don't win again buy $100k for 3rd drawing. I bet a guy with that kind of money who could already afford buying these hunts every year will give it a try. Or they just buy tags in other states who still do the auctions.

It will be interesting to see how the next few years play out. In the meantime, azg&f is going to have to come up with a plan to make up the lost funds auction tags raised.

 

[longranger]

No rich guy is dropping $100k+ on raffle tickets without the guarantee of a tag. They claim they buy the tags in the name of conservation but you don't see them just donating $100k out of the kindness of their hearts. Let's be real. . They are paying market value for a product and that money happens to go to conservation. I might agree they may buy a couple thousand dollars worth but no more than that.

 

[AZ71]

I'm just here to stir the pot a little as I am still not sure how I feel about what AZ is doing by getting rid of auction tags. In the case that you described above with your friend in Idaho, if that would happen here in AZ what do you think everyone would say? Do you think they would just congratulate the guy with deep pockets who bought a large percentage of raffle tickets and won the hunt? Or, do you think most will say the raffle was fixed because the rich guy won?

If 3 tags are raffled off for mule deer, they can buy $100k worth of raffle ticket for 1st drawing, if they don't win, buy $100k worth for 2nd drawing and if they don't win again buy $100k for 3rd drawing. I bet a guy with that kind of money who could already afford buying these hunts every year will give it a try. Or they just buy tags in other states who still do the auctions.

It will be interesting to see how the next few years play out. In the meantime, azg&f is going to have to come up with a plan to make up the lost funds auction tags rais

It hasn't been decided yet how they will do the 3 tags other than starting in 2026 there will be no more auction tag. Time will tell if the new strategy makes the same money or close to it. One thing is for sure all the money from the auction tags so far hasn't put more MD on the landscape in AZ in fact MD numbers like most western states are way down. Elk are doing just fine and the biggest problem Bighorns in AZ seem to have are disease outbreaks which I don't believe the auction tags have made much to curb that problem.

 

[JPickett]

No rich guy is dropping $100k+ on raffle tickets without the guarantee of a tag. They claim they buy the tags in the name of conservation but you don't see them just donating $100k out of the kindness of their hearts. Let's be real. . They are paying market value for a product and that money happens to go to conservation. I might agree they may buy a couple thousand dollars worth but no more than that.

Well I know a rich guy that bought a raffle. It was a gamble, it worked. Some rich guys make million dollar bets on super bowls that are not a sure thing.

There is a certain amount of money that starts to be a different world then guys like you and I know. 100k isn’t a big check to write in it.

 

[WapitiBob]

There are several guys in OR who buy tens of thousands of raffle tags every year and have won multiple years raffles. They don't hide it.

 

[JPickett]

There are several guys in OR who buy tens of thousands of raffle tags every year and have won multiple years raffles. They don't hide it.

Yup. Even if you miss a year or two it ends up cheaper in the long run for what you’d spend on these tags in an auction

 

[longranger]

Well I know a rich guy that bought a raffle. It was a gamble, it worked. Some rich guys make million dollar bets on super bowls that are not a sure thing.

There is a certain amount of money that starts to be a different world then guys like you and I know. 100k isn’t a big check to write in it.

No doubt there's rich guys spending a couple thousand dollars and their odds are higher than the average Joe. Guarantee noone is dropping $100k+ on raffle tickets.

You have to realize if a guy spends $120,000 to buy tickets that gets him 6000 tickets. Last year's elk sold 12,000 tickets. That doesn't mean rich guy has half the tickets because the majority of those 12,000 tickets everyone else will still be buying so you're looking at closer to 18,000 tickets with rich guys additional 6,000 tickets and he now has a 33% chance at winning. Great odds but I don't see anyone chancing that.