ZeroGuideFees.com ??

[PleaseDear]

I am sure many of you all got this same oversized postcard in the mail recently.

I have a lot of respect for 1 of the guides listed and am not familiar with the other one.

$349.00 a year membership----

http://www.ZeroGuideFees.com

Robb

 

[Deerlove]

Interesting Robb.
Do I have to be in the program for a certain amount of time before my hunt is covered by Zero Guide Fees?

No. All members are covered as soon as they pay their first annual membership fee. It is possible to draw and hunt in your first year. You must however be a member prior to the close of the application deadline for the species your are applying for. Any member who joins after the application deadline will be eligible for the next calendar year.

 

[Horniac]

>Interesting Robb.
>Do I have to be in
>the program for a certain
>amount of time before my
>hunt is covered by Zero
>Guide Fees?
>
>No. All members are covered as
>soon as they pay their
>first annual membership fee. It
>is possible to draw and
>hunt in your first year.
>You must however be a
>member prior to the close
>of the application deadline for
>the species your are applying
>for. Any member who joins
>after the application deadline will
>be eligible for the next
>calendar year.

Interesting concept. If you know you are going to draw a tag sitting on a lot of points, it seems like a good deal for $349. I know the annual species price goes up yearly if you don't lock-up the rate for the initial membership fee, but If you don't have a lot of points why wouldn't you just wait until you were close to drawing the tag and then join at that time? Looking at the benefits, it looks like you only get a 5 day hunt if a member for 1-3 years, and up to 14 days if a member for 10+ years of membership so I guess you would need to factor that in your decision. As we all know, you would want more days on an archery hunt for sure but maybe 5 days is enough to get it done on a rifle hunt?

If I was a NR without many points, I don't know if I would want to be a member for 10+ years and have $3500 invested in this program. A lot can happen in that time frame with the draw system itself as we have seen only too recently. While Travis is a very reputable outfitter and has been around a long time, who knows what the outfitting landscape will look like in ten years?

IMO, it certainly looks like a better program than that one in Montana where you pay an annual membership fee to access private land for a sheep tag that 99.99% of us will never draw in our lifetime haha...

Horniac

 

[Camper_A1]

I also got an email that said 15 first time
Elk hunters drew this year.

 

[PleaseDear]

That is some good points Horniac....

I have 16 total pts on deer and equally 16 total points on Sheep in Az.

Robb

 

[300WBYMULES]

Coming from a non res with a fair amount of elk points I wouldn't touch this. I just have a hard time feeling like I would be given a fair shake. They can claim that your getting the same hunt but I don't see how. I've read about this program from 2 outfits and this is a little strange.

 

[WapitiBob]

I would have no reservations hunting with Steve Chappell, who is offering the same service. I have never heard a bad word about McClendon either.

 

[cbeard]

Interesting. What if the program grows (as they must certainly hope it does) and more hunters draw each year than guides are available?

 

[PCPython]

One thing to keep in mind is that the number of points you have is one of the determining factors as to which units you can apply for. I also believe that their prices for a guided hunt will only increase in the future whereas once you sign up for the program your yearly fee stays the same.

I personally will have 16 elk points going into the 2017 draw and I chose to sign up with Steve Chappell for a hunt in the distant future after I burn these points. It's much easier for me to come up with $350 a year for 10 years rather than coughing up seven or eight grand all at once. I really hope it all works out the way I want it to!

 

[Jdan9]

I'd think that if they want to grow this business they'll need the testimonials from these 15 first timers that drew elk tags to attract future members. On the other hand the Internet is a powerful tool if they have less than a quality experience!

JD

 

[fin little]

I signed up with Steve Chappel before the elk draw with 12 points. We did talk about what kind of hunt I was looking for and what units we thought were fair to both of us. Its a risk for him with the new random draw possibilities. I had several units we both agreed met my goals to choose from. The last thing I need is a guide on unit 9 but I would love a skilled caller for 5 days. The other unit I chose is in the realm of being able to draw at my point level with the old rules. Ive never set foot on it. a guide would save me learning a whole new unit. 350 a year is cheaper for a few years.I have never heard a negative thing about Steve. I have no Doubt a hunt with him in this program would be first class.

 

[2lumpy]

LAST EDITED ON May-26-16 AT 11:21PM (MST)[p]Maybe I'm too cautious, because this looks a lot like a game of chance to me.

Your betting you'll draw before you invest the current outfitter/guide fees, the "house' is betting you won't. The "house" is betting you'll get invested for a couple or three years, then feel the need to keep investing, to protect you previous investment, and eventually pay in more than they generally charge to outfit and guide you. On the front end, the "house" carries most of the risk, but once you've tied up a few years membership his risk starts to decline and yours goes up. The "house" really does well if you come on hard times, die, get injured, or get discouraged.

I'd just start poking $350 a year in an Roth IRA and keep applying, every where, then borrow from my IRA when it gets large enough and I get my draw of a lifetime, and I'm not limited to one outfitter and what he has to offer. But, the "house" knows a lot of us are gamblers, so it might work for them, as point creep continues to improve their odds that members won't draw anytime soon.

I'd guess they'll eventually build in a "graduated reduced" pay out for people who start out with high point totals. Like a three day hunt or a reduced priced fee hunt. Because, in the end the "house" goes broke if it goes takes in less that it pays out. Will the State eventually tax the "game" like they do casinos and if you draw a tag, and win the outfitted/guided services, do you get a 1099 (so the outfitter can claim it as business expense) from the outfitter and have to pay income taxes on the market value of your winnings?

I have no problem with it, as long as it's legal and folks are not deceived about how the "bet/win/loose" works. And......it doesn't look like anyone is being deceived. I'm not much of a gambler but then I do apply for State tags every year and that's getting to be a pretty high odds raffle.

Think I'll stick to Blackjack but to each his own.

DC

 

[Deerlove]

Good points Lumpy if theres enough suckers with zero pts putting in for 20 pt units you could make it work.

 

[joesikora]

LAST EDITED ON May-29-16 AT 08:03AM (MST)[p]I too talked with Steve what a great guy, I also got the postcard about the 15 first time drawings. What was told to me and my understanding was that there are only a few units that qualify for their system and you have to draw for the unit(s) they want you to and it can change from year to year, has that changed? Another thing can you really draw an elk tag in AZ the first year?

Thanks Jo

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora

 

[joesikora]

Sorry, I forgot to mention this. Mrs Sikora read over Steve's contract and there were a few things that were written that could cause problems for both sides. Not saying in any way Steve was trying to do someone wrong. It seem to her that it was not written by someone with contract experience. I don't have a copy of this contract anymore or I would point out the few things she was referring too.

Thanks again
Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora