After reading that locked thread attacking the guy for not fulfilling his guide duties I am convinced that not only SFW but all guides, outfitters, and anyone else that makes a profit from hunting are a bunch of greedy crooks. Some guy steals $20000 from me he will either end up in jail or buried in the woods but a rich fat boy just sits on the deal for a few years so he can take a dump on a website? What is up with that? Just living proof of why you can never let private tags be had. It ends up with fat rich boys whining about how they were screwed out of that 420 bull they were promised. It ends up being the sport of homos instead of the sport of real men. This bickering and back biting will drive all of us to the polls to get rid of the private tags in every state if you don't clean up your act. In my 60 years I have hired two outfitters to take me out with customers. Both lied about food, lodging and the hunts in general. Both times I took all my elk camp gear and plenty of food just in case and the hunts worked out fine. I am just amazed that some of you can behave so badly on a website that caters to the very people you earn a living from. I hope you understand that I am not accusing all of you of being queer just the ones that are girl fighting on here and need to man up. Tank you berry much!
You all have convinced me!
- Thread starter gleninaz
- Start date
I've no idea to what you are making reference.....so, I can't agree specifically. However, reducing special tags and special access....tags and access that can be purchased......is the ONLY way hunting will exist in a format close enough to what we have known, that our younger children and grandchildren will be able to participate......unless they are very wealthy.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
OK.......now I have read a preceding post (the BIG one) and know what the topic is. IF what is stated is correct, most of those guys should be ashamed of themselves.....certainly fraud and failing to live up to a contract is wrong and people who commit fraud should be ashamed.
To buy a hunt, with no effort except spending money, and to hold yourself out as a HUNTER if successful in such an endeavor, is also shameful.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
To buy a hunt, with no effort except spending money, and to hold yourself out as a HUNTER if successful in such an endeavor, is also shameful.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
buglinbilly
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,009
What was written last night and what happened last fall was despicable, no doubt about that. And what we have allowed to happen in Utah is also despicable, but to lump all guides, into that category is totally unfair.
Thank God for the GOOD guys like the Black brothers from Blanding and for OTHERS like them. They are around and one needs to search to find them, but they DO exist.
The flip side of this coin however, is those that don't run a clean, legal operation, need their license?s jerked and some heavy fines.
What a mess Utah has found itself in and the route of all this evil comes from the sale of all these tags. When is enough going to be enough?
Have a good one. BB
Thank God for the GOOD guys like the Black brothers from Blanding and for OTHERS like them. They are around and one needs to search to find them, but they DO exist.
The flip side of this coin however, is those that don't run a clean, legal operation, need their license?s jerked and some heavy fines.
What a mess Utah has found itself in and the route of all this evil comes from the sale of all these tags. When is enough going to be enough?
Have a good one. BB
I know that there are plenty of good people in this business like most others but there are obviosly plenty of bad ones that need to be weeded out. Not my problem as the buyer. I do think that people in Utah will eventually wake up and put a big boot in the butt of the Farm Bureau, SFW and outfitting business by outlawing the sale of public owned big game for profit. Just a ticking time bomb and judging from the posts on here I think it is close to exploding. JMO.
Q
QTPIE
Guest
All right, I get what you guys are saying. I really do. But the ONLY reason your state has big bulls and big herds (not for much longer, if you guys have your way) is because of the "rich fat boys" that pay to come and hunt in your state. why in the world would we want to pay to come and hunt your state? Because the state we live has been managed in the same manner you are proposing and is no longer a very good place to trophy hunt. You guys all whine and moan about SFW and conservation tags....but what about RMEF, Duck unlimited, SCI, all these other "groups" that get and auction tags. These groups do "projects" such as habitat improvements (which cost them very little in the scheme of things), but that is about it. Why are you not blasting them and thier leaders? I will tell you why, because they are not in the public spotlight like SFW and Don Peay. Outside looking in, the ONLY group i see publicly fighting the battle with utah's biggest threat to the future of hunting (wolves) is SFW...Tags and how they are aquired are not the issue nor will they be if there are no elk (or any other big game) left to hunt. I know SFW brings in a lot of money, but i dont think you people have a clue how much it is probably costing them to fight the bunny huggers in court and to get the message out to people of the impending doom to elk herds (not just in utah) if the wolves are not managed. They do this for all hunters (rich fat boys included). If you do not like SFW or agree with the way they operate, or their agenda, then do not give them your money. Luckly the "rich fat boys" will continue to support SFW so that you "whiny cry babies" can continue to hunt as well. Take away the conservation tags and lets just see what becomes of the utah elk herds and trophy hunting opportunities.
Since we didn't cut NR tags after the Taulman mess and we have never allowed any private tags then you are right and we must not have any decent elk hunting left in this state. Just give up applying and see how much the water drops in the AZ glass. We may have problems if G&F keeps trying to sell too many tags for the herds to support but it won't be because we don't get enough money from NR hunters. I think we have been fair and do have good game management practices in spite of not allowing any private tags other than a couple for each organization. I also think it is more important to prevent the whoring of our tags so poorer families can hunt with an equal chance to your wealthy clients. Just stop whining and get in line like the rest of us commie pinkos.
LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-10 AT 08:24PM (MST)[p][
>All right, I get what you
>guys are saying. I
>really do. But the
>ONLY reason your state has
>big bulls and big herds
>(not for much longer, if
>you guys have your way)
>is because of the "rich
>fat boys" that pay to
>come and hunt in your
>state. why in the world
>would we want to pay
>to come and hunt your
>state? Because the state
>we live has been managed
>in the same manner you
>are proposing and is no
>longer a very good place
>to trophy hunt. You
>guys all whine and moan
>about SFW and conservation tags....but
>what about RMEF, Duck unlimited,
>SCI, all these other "groups"
>that get and auction tags.
> These groups do "projects"
>such as habitat improvements (which
>cost them very little in
>the scheme of things), but
>that is about it.
>Why are you not blasting
>them and thier leaders?
>I will tell you why,
>because they are not in
>the public spotlight like SFW
>and Don Peay. Outside
>looking in, the ONLY group
>i see publicly fighting the
>battle with utah's biggest threat
>to the future of hunting
>(wolves) is SFW...Tags and how
>they are aquired are not
>the issue nor will they
>be if there are no
>elk (or any other big
>game) left to hunt. I
>know SFW brings in a
>lot of money, but i
>dont think you people have
>a clue how much it
>is probably costing them to
>fight the bunny huggers in
>court and to get the
>message out to people of
>the impending doom to elk
>herds (not just in utah)
>if the wolves are not
>managed. They do this
>for all hunters (rich fat
>boys included). If you
>do not like SFW or
>agree with the way they
>operate, or their agenda, then
>do not give them your
>money. Luckly the "rich
>fat boys" will continue to
>support SFW so that you
>"whiny cry babies" can continue
>to hunt as well.
>Take away the conservation tags
>and lets just see what
>becomes of the utah elk
>herds and trophy hunting opportunities.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Don't flatter yourself. If the wealth tags ended today there would still be plenty of great hunting without your hubby there.
Keep in mind that some day your kids may not have the financial means to hunt as Dad did, and may wonder how it came to be the the rich and wealth tags are here keeping them from getting their chance.
Wealth tags do not sit well with the majority here is my guess, but too many are afraid to speak up. I sat last fall and read the posts, and it got worst as time went by. Then a topic was made about head hunters and all the crowds on "the dutton" by your man, but he himself had a posse. Do you think he should have the area to himself because he BOUGHT his tag? It kind of sounded like it. I did not say much and read the posts but when that one came up I felt I saw the side of hunting I do not like.
The big RA RA cheering section, whatever. Maybe some felt they would keep quite as they rolled their eyes and had fear that they would not get the same kind of help if they drew a tag, but a few did speak up on that post and one even asked "didnt you buy that tag?" with no response.
I would love to have help if I draw a tag too, but I could care less if someone decides not to help because i spoke out against wealth tags, and crooked outfitters. I am sure that there are plenty who would help out just because they would like to tag along on an average guys hunt.
Just venting... but I really don't think your wealth tag status impressed many.
I have no hatred for outfitters, or wealthy, just those that feel they are entitled to more than their fair cut. I have freinds that outfit, and are stand up guys but no one in any state should step in front of the line because they are wealthy or plan to use an outfitter. It is sad, but maybe I am going to play the game as well, if you can't beat em join em right? Hell with the prices of the latest wealth tags I could buy one myself
>All right, I get what you
>guys are saying. I
>really do. But the
>ONLY reason your state has
>big bulls and big herds
>(not for much longer, if
>you guys have your way)
>is because of the "rich
>fat boys" that pay to
>come and hunt in your
>state. why in the world
>would we want to pay
>to come and hunt your
>state? Because the state
>we live has been managed
>in the same manner you
>are proposing and is no
>longer a very good place
>to trophy hunt. You
>guys all whine and moan
>about SFW and conservation tags....but
>what about RMEF, Duck unlimited,
>SCI, all these other "groups"
>that get and auction tags.
> These groups do "projects"
>such as habitat improvements (which
>cost them very little in
>the scheme of things), but
>that is about it.
>Why are you not blasting
>them and thier leaders?
>I will tell you why,
>because they are not in
>the public spotlight like SFW
>and Don Peay. Outside
>looking in, the ONLY group
>i see publicly fighting the
>battle with utah's biggest threat
>to the future of hunting
>(wolves) is SFW...Tags and how
>they are aquired are not
>the issue nor will they
>be if there are no
>elk (or any other big
>game) left to hunt. I
>know SFW brings in a
>lot of money, but i
>dont think you people have
>a clue how much it
>is probably costing them to
>fight the bunny huggers in
>court and to get the
>message out to people of
>the impending doom to elk
>herds (not just in utah)
>if the wolves are not
>managed. They do this
>for all hunters (rich fat
>boys included). If you
>do not like SFW or
>agree with the way they
>operate, or their agenda, then
>do not give them your
>money. Luckly the "rich
>fat boys" will continue to
>support SFW so that you
>"whiny cry babies" can continue
>to hunt as well.
>Take away the conservation tags
>and lets just see what
>becomes of the utah elk
>herds and trophy hunting opportunities.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Don't flatter yourself. If the wealth tags ended today there would still be plenty of great hunting without your hubby there.
Keep in mind that some day your kids may not have the financial means to hunt as Dad did, and may wonder how it came to be the the rich and wealth tags are here keeping them from getting their chance.
Wealth tags do not sit well with the majority here is my guess, but too many are afraid to speak up. I sat last fall and read the posts, and it got worst as time went by. Then a topic was made about head hunters and all the crowds on "the dutton" by your man, but he himself had a posse. Do you think he should have the area to himself because he BOUGHT his tag? It kind of sounded like it. I did not say much and read the posts but when that one came up I felt I saw the side of hunting I do not like.
The big RA RA cheering section, whatever. Maybe some felt they would keep quite as they rolled their eyes and had fear that they would not get the same kind of help if they drew a tag, but a few did speak up on that post and one even asked "didnt you buy that tag?" with no response.
I would love to have help if I draw a tag too, but I could care less if someone decides not to help because i spoke out against wealth tags, and crooked outfitters. I am sure that there are plenty who would help out just because they would like to tag along on an average guys hunt.
Just venting... but I really don't think your wealth tag status impressed many.
I have no hatred for outfitters, or wealthy, just those that feel they are entitled to more than their fair cut. I have freinds that outfit, and are stand up guys but no one in any state should step in front of the line because they are wealthy or plan to use an outfitter. It is sad, but maybe I am going to play the game as well, if you can't beat em join em right? Hell with the prices of the latest wealth tags I could buy one myself
Q
QTPIE
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-10 AT 05:08PM (MST)[p]You miss the point. As much as ya'll wanna make it about my hubby, that was not my point. Im not even suggesting that conservation tags alone are responcible for the quality of elk in utah, but they do help more then any of you haters will ever admitt....Go read nvbighorns post on this thread....b bop's response hit the nail on the head. 99% of the whiners on here are not about to donate time or money...Where do you think the money for these non profit organizations comes from? everyone is whining that conservation tags are evil and taking away from "your" chance to go hunt...but really, how many tags will be added to the drawing pool if they take away the conservation tags? Things need to change, but doing away with conservation tags really isnt gonna solve any thing.
H
hoytme
Guest
The number of permits taken from the draw pool is only a small part of the problem. It is managing/rationing the permits issued to the public to ensure the conservation permits reel in enough money to satisfy the special interest groups that is the biggest issue. Look at it this way, by raising harvest age objectives by ONE AND ONE/HALF years, the amount of permits issued to the public drastically decrease from what they would be if the age objectives were left where they currently are. The primary reason for the increase in age objectives is the conservation permit program.
The responsibility of those in the role of wildlife stewards are supposed to look out for the welfare of the wildlife FIRST, the welfare of hunters somewhere well after the first priority has been accomplished. We should be setting management objectives based on 1]what will benefit the herd, 2]what will be best for the average hunter 3]what is wanted by the select few. Utah is bass-ackwards on this, and it doesn't bode well for the future of the wildlife nor the ability of the average schmuck to hunt them.
The responsibility of those in the role of wildlife stewards are supposed to look out for the welfare of the wildlife FIRST, the welfare of hunters somewhere well after the first priority has been accomplished. We should be setting management objectives based on 1]what will benefit the herd, 2]what will be best for the average hunter 3]what is wanted by the select few. Utah is bass-ackwards on this, and it doesn't bode well for the future of the wildlife nor the ability of the average schmuck to hunt them.
B
bigthree
Guest
I think some conservation tags is okay but Im saying 12 tops thats it! And the 200 that sfw mdf get,that money needs to be spent on public land projects,Not to SI groups consultant fees !
T
TheElitehornhunter
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-10 AT 05:40PM (MST)[p] hmm
I
ILArcher
Guest
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-10
>AT 05:09?PM (MST)
>
> Maybe I did miss the
>point, maybe not but what
>I said still stands with
>me. I have no
>ill feeling towards you or
>your man JFYI, i just
>hate wealth tags, they are
>the rot of hunting as
>we know it.
I agree, wealth tags and anyone naiive enough to support them both suck equally.
>AT 05:09?PM (MST)
>
> Maybe I did miss the
>point, maybe not but what
>I said still stands with
>me. I have no
>ill feeling towards you or
>your man JFYI, i just
>hate wealth tags, they are
>the rot of hunting as
>we know it.
I agree, wealth tags and anyone naiive enough to support them both suck equally.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,661
LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-10 AT 05:56PM (MST)[p]Quick question for EHH-
If we are moving some LE units into october and out of the rut, yet allowing MORE hunters afield, how is that going to lower the success rate?
Seems to me it could be a "wash" due to tougher time of year to harvest, yet more hunters to be successful doing it.
If so, the only thing i can see we remedied is the drawing butt plug, yet no improvement in quality, or worse yet, reduced quality.
Which brings me to my next point.
The other thing i see is a tougher elk hunt means more 3-4 year old bulls being taken that there are now.
This already happens on some units during peak rut hunting.
We saw young bulls being piled up on the Dutton on day 5 thru 9.
Now move it into October and add more tags.
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
If we are moving some LE units into october and out of the rut, yet allowing MORE hunters afield, how is that going to lower the success rate?
Seems to me it could be a "wash" due to tougher time of year to harvest, yet more hunters to be successful doing it.
If so, the only thing i can see we remedied is the drawing butt plug, yet no improvement in quality, or worse yet, reduced quality.
Which brings me to my next point.
The other thing i see is a tougher elk hunt means more 3-4 year old bulls being taken that there are now.
This already happens on some units during peak rut hunting.
We saw young bulls being piled up on the Dutton on day 5 thru 9.
Now move it into October and add more tags.
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
B
bggmhtr
Guest
I agree with you buglinbilly. Let's not lump the Blanding Bros in the same category as other dishonest guides. Lets lump them into the category of guides who will tell you that you cannot drive down certain roads when you have been hunting a specific 380 bull for a week, then bring in a hunter to try to ace you out on that same bull. Lets also lump them into the type of guide that will slam you on this website when you are serious about inquiring about help on the San Juan. If you are seriously looking for a so called Good Guy Guide, the Blacks are not those guy's.
I just did not want anyone to be misled about your post.
I just did not want anyone to be misled about your post.
T
TheElitehornhunter
Guest
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-10
>AT 05:56?PM (MST)
>
>Quick question for EHH-
>If we are moving some LE
>units into october and out
>of the rut, yet allowing
>MORE hunters afield, how is
>that going to lower the
>success rate?
>Seems to me it could be
>a "wash" due to tougher
>time of year to harvest,
>yet more hunters to be
>successful doing it.
>If so, the only thing i
>can see we remedied is
>the drawing butt plug, yet
>no improvement in quality, or
>worse yet, reduced quality.
>Which brings me to my next
>point.
>
>The other thing i see is
>a tougher elk hunt means
>more 3-4 year old bulls
>being taken that there are
>now.
>This already happens on some units
>during peak rut hunting.
>We saw young bulls being piled
>up on the Dutton on
>day 5 thru 9.
>Now move it into October and
>add more tags.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
Doug, I believe the success rate will go down because it would be harder to kill a bull outside the rut. Plus fewer rifle tags and more primative weapon tags.
Hunters are going to pick the type of bull they want to kill so of course some people will kill younger bulls.
The quality of bulls will probably go up because of the escapement factor outside the rut.
Doug look at the success rates for NM during October with a rifle. The success rate is much lower than Utah because we choose to slaughter our bulls in the rut. This is one reason we issue fewer tags.
You will also see the bull/cow ratios for NM. They are still pretty high. NM also kills some pretty nice bulls.
http://wildlife.state.nm.us/recreation/hunting/harvest/documents/2008-09elklharvestreport.pdf
>AT 05:56?PM (MST)
>
>Quick question for EHH-
>If we are moving some LE
>units into october and out
>of the rut, yet allowing
>MORE hunters afield, how is
>that going to lower the
>success rate?
>Seems to me it could be
>a "wash" due to tougher
>time of year to harvest,
>yet more hunters to be
>successful doing it.
>If so, the only thing i
>can see we remedied is
>the drawing butt plug, yet
>no improvement in quality, or
>worse yet, reduced quality.
>Which brings me to my next
>point.
>
>The other thing i see is
>a tougher elk hunt means
>more 3-4 year old bulls
>being taken that there are
>now.
>This already happens on some units
>during peak rut hunting.
>We saw young bulls being piled
>up on the Dutton on
>day 5 thru 9.
>Now move it into October and
>add more tags.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
Doug, I believe the success rate will go down because it would be harder to kill a bull outside the rut. Plus fewer rifle tags and more primative weapon tags.
Hunters are going to pick the type of bull they want to kill so of course some people will kill younger bulls.
The quality of bulls will probably go up because of the escapement factor outside the rut.
Doug look at the success rates for NM during October with a rifle. The success rate is much lower than Utah because we choose to slaughter our bulls in the rut. This is one reason we issue fewer tags.
You will also see the bull/cow ratios for NM. They are still pretty high. NM also kills some pretty nice bulls.
http://wildlife.state.nm.us/recreation/hunting/harvest/documents/2008-09elklharvestreport.pdf
dryflyelk
Active Member
- Messages
- 842
LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-10 AT 06:17PM (MST)[p]I find it ironic that some that used to be involved in the whoring of our wildlife are now defending it.
A microcosm of our problem:
Southeastern Utah, the strip, and the big dollar money areas for deer. The areas are patrolled by planes, stalked by "spotters" who are paid bounties, and have literally hundreds and hundreds of cameras set up to catch any potential trophy deer. Some guys have a full time job just checking game cameras. When a big one is found, an army of "guides" is sent to keep tabs on the animal until daddy warbucks comes in to shoot it. It's all about the benjamins. DVDs are made and guys get famous for being such terrific "hunters". Rinse and repeat. Hundreds of times.
A microcosm of our problem:
Southeastern Utah, the strip, and the big dollar money areas for deer. The areas are patrolled by planes, stalked by "spotters" who are paid bounties, and have literally hundreds and hundreds of cameras set up to catch any potential trophy deer. Some guys have a full time job just checking game cameras. When a big one is found, an army of "guides" is sent to keep tabs on the animal until daddy warbucks comes in to shoot it. It's all about the benjamins. DVDs are made and guys get famous for being such terrific "hunters". Rinse and repeat. Hundreds of times.
J
JamesM
Guest
I think its sad that some of you rich fat ppl think your the reason why us average joes and janes have the privalage to hunt in utah. Because you buy tags that cost you thousands of dollars and than claim that your the reason why myself and many others have the oppurtunity to hunt. Just cuase you have money and can afford expensive tags and guides doesnt mean your ##### dont stink. You got took and lost money get over it move on. Maybe next time you will think twice before fronting all the money before the hunt starts. Maybe next time you will think twice before you front thirty grand maybe 50% deposit and the rest once the hunt is over.
H
Hornhog2
Guest
Right on dryflyelk. Too much money, and WAY too much ego.
AWHOLELOTTABULL
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,357
gleninaz - "I am convinced that not only SFW but all guides, outfitters, and anyone else that makes a profit from hunting are a bunch of greedy crooks."
You must hunt with a homemade bow and arrow. How's that workin for ya? I'm impressed too because you must not use a backpack, or calls, or a flashlight, or gas (or a truck for that matter). No tent or sleeping bag. No socks or boots. You must hunt barefoot too. You Da Man gleninaz. There are still some of us that guide and outfit because we love to do it. Believe me when I say that while there is a profit, it is a minor one. And, once you get all of the equipment fixed after hunting seasons done I'm more than likely in the whole. So, if you have a specific beef with something or someone have at it, but keep your generalized statements to yourself. You never know, someday you may need some help out there and one of these no good "greedy crooks" may be the one to save your ass!!!
It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
You must hunt with a homemade bow and arrow. How's that workin for ya? I'm impressed too because you must not use a backpack, or calls, or a flashlight, or gas (or a truck for that matter). No tent or sleeping bag. No socks or boots. You must hunt barefoot too. You Da Man gleninaz. There are still some of us that guide and outfit because we love to do it. Believe me when I say that while there is a profit, it is a minor one. And, once you get all of the equipment fixed after hunting seasons done I'm more than likely in the whole. So, if you have a specific beef with something or someone have at it, but keep your generalized statements to yourself. You never know, someday you may need some help out there and one of these no good "greedy crooks" may be the one to save your ass!!!
It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
QTPIE,
You are mistaken.
The "rich fat guys" (not my term) are not why there are big bulls and bucks....far from it. You need to listen less to rhetoric and unfounded theory. Spend more time studying biology and historical facts. The opposite is true...but even if having animals available for the "rich guys" was good for the resource, it would still be horribly detrimental to the future of hunting....it will reduce the number of hunters by 80% to 90+% and result in the elimination by those that want hunting to cease...at least in anything resembling the state it has existed for several generations.
As for "all about your husband"......I couldn't care less about "him"...wouldn't know him if I saw him; for all I know, he's a decent sort of guy. However, from all that's been written on this subject, I have learned that his hunting skills and intensity are dramatically less than I have expected.
I've killed many more deer and many more elk than he (I'm enough older it couldn't possibly even be close). I've got some in the book....I've done all of them on public land and without a guide (recently, too). IF everything happened exactly as he said it did....there is NOTHING that would have stopped me from hunting on my own (and I'm OLD...he's young enough to not even be tired after a week of hunting). I would have brought home an animal that made me happy. AFTER THE HUNT, I may have shot the crooked outfitter...or sued him or had him arrested or even lamblasted him on this website....but I would have brought home a large bull first.
(Yeah....I've hunted in tough country....Idaho's central wilderness and similar (it's where I live.))
Within the shadows, go quietly.
You are mistaken.
The "rich fat guys" (not my term) are not why there are big bulls and bucks....far from it. You need to listen less to rhetoric and unfounded theory. Spend more time studying biology and historical facts. The opposite is true...but even if having animals available for the "rich guys" was good for the resource, it would still be horribly detrimental to the future of hunting....it will reduce the number of hunters by 80% to 90+% and result in the elimination by those that want hunting to cease...at least in anything resembling the state it has existed for several generations.
As for "all about your husband"......I couldn't care less about "him"...wouldn't know him if I saw him; for all I know, he's a decent sort of guy. However, from all that's been written on this subject, I have learned that his hunting skills and intensity are dramatically less than I have expected.
I've killed many more deer and many more elk than he (I'm enough older it couldn't possibly even be close). I've got some in the book....I've done all of them on public land and without a guide (recently, too). IF everything happened exactly as he said it did....there is NOTHING that would have stopped me from hunting on my own (and I'm OLD...he's young enough to not even be tired after a week of hunting). I would have brought home an animal that made me happy. AFTER THE HUNT, I may have shot the crooked outfitter...or sued him or had him arrested or even lamblasted him on this website....but I would have brought home a large bull first.
(Yeah....I've hunted in tough country....Idaho's central wilderness and similar (it's where I live.))
Within the shadows, go quietly.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,661
Justin-
"Doug, I believe the success rate will go down because it would be harder to kill a bull outside the rut. Plus fewer rifle tags and more primative weapon tags.
Hunters are going to pick the type of bull they want to kill so of course some people will kill younger bulls.
The quality of bulls will probably go up because of the escapement factor outside the rut.
Doug look at the success rates for NM during October with a rifle. The success rate is much lower than Utah because we choose to slaughter our bulls in the rut. This is one reason we issue fewer tags."
Well then i must have read something wrong somewhere because i was under the impression there would be MORE rifle tags allowed due to the lower success rate of the October hunt.
I have a really tough time with your statement #2, of which i will also tie into your NM comparison.
Very few hunters get the option to "pick the type of bull they want to kill".
This is public land high pressure hunting Justin, i gotta say nunya to that one for certain.
Hunters had more of an option to "choose" during the easier rut time, many bulls are passed on.
Arent you kind of contradicting yourself saying October is a tougher hunt yet hunters will still have the luxury of "choice" on quality?
Show me one hunter who will wait 8 years to draw their LE tag and go shoot a 4x4 bull as their "choice" and i will eat my hat ;-)
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
"Doug, I believe the success rate will go down because it would be harder to kill a bull outside the rut. Plus fewer rifle tags and more primative weapon tags.
Hunters are going to pick the type of bull they want to kill so of course some people will kill younger bulls.
The quality of bulls will probably go up because of the escapement factor outside the rut.
Doug look at the success rates for NM during October with a rifle. The success rate is much lower than Utah because we choose to slaughter our bulls in the rut. This is one reason we issue fewer tags."
Well then i must have read something wrong somewhere because i was under the impression there would be MORE rifle tags allowed due to the lower success rate of the October hunt.
I have a really tough time with your statement #2, of which i will also tie into your NM comparison.
Very few hunters get the option to "pick the type of bull they want to kill".
This is public land high pressure hunting Justin, i gotta say nunya to that one for certain.
Hunters had more of an option to "choose" during the easier rut time, many bulls are passed on.
Arent you kind of contradicting yourself saying October is a tougher hunt yet hunters will still have the luxury of "choice" on quality?
Show me one hunter who will wait 8 years to draw their LE tag and go shoot a 4x4 bull as their "choice" and i will eat my hat ;-)
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
woodruffhunter
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,748
>gleninaz - "I am convinced that
>not only SFW but all
>guides, outfitters, and anyone else
>that makes a profit from
>hunting are a bunch of
>greedy crooks."
>
>You must hunt with a homemade
>bow and arrow. How's
>that workin for ya?
>I'm impressed too because you
>must not use a backpack,
>or calls, or a flashlight,
>or gas (or a truck
>for that matter). No tent
>or sleeping bag. No
>socks or boots. You
>must hunt barefoot too.
>You Da Man gleninaz.
>There are still some of
>us that guide and outfit
>because we love to do
>it. Believe me when
>I say that while there
>is a profit, it is
>a minor one. And,
>once you get all of
>the equipment fixed after hunting
>seasons done I'm more than
>likely in the whole.
>So, if you have a
>specific beef with something or
>someone have at it, but
>keep your generalized statements to
>yourself. You never know, someday
>you may need some help
>out there and one of
>these no good "greedy crooks"
>may be the one to
>save your ass!!!
>
>It's always an adventure!!!
>www.awholelottabull.com
Glen:
Read the above post. This guide (Jim), not only helped us on our unit, the one that he guides on, he also offered to pack out elk, and show us the areas to hunt. And not once did he ask for one penny! Hardly sounds like greed to me.
Its childish to lump guides and organizations together as a whole.
Having said this, I will agree that all the "money lost", "getting ripped off", he said she said, does this site no good and ought to be settled elsewhere JMO...
>not only SFW but all
>guides, outfitters, and anyone else
>that makes a profit from
>hunting are a bunch of
>greedy crooks."
>
>You must hunt with a homemade
>bow and arrow. How's
>that workin for ya?
>I'm impressed too because you
>must not use a backpack,
>or calls, or a flashlight,
>or gas (or a truck
>for that matter). No tent
>or sleeping bag. No
>socks or boots. You
>must hunt barefoot too.
>You Da Man gleninaz.
>There are still some of
>us that guide and outfit
>because we love to do
>it. Believe me when
>I say that while there
>is a profit, it is
>a minor one. And,
>once you get all of
>the equipment fixed after hunting
>seasons done I'm more than
>likely in the whole.
>So, if you have a
>specific beef with something or
>someone have at it, but
>keep your generalized statements to
>yourself. You never know, someday
>you may need some help
>out there and one of
>these no good "greedy crooks"
>may be the one to
>save your ass!!!
>
>It's always an adventure!!!
>www.awholelottabull.com
Glen:
Read the above post. This guide (Jim), not only helped us on our unit, the one that he guides on, he also offered to pack out elk, and show us the areas to hunt. And not once did he ask for one penny! Hardly sounds like greed to me.
Its childish to lump guides and organizations together as a whole.
Having said this, I will agree that all the "money lost", "getting ripped off", he said she said, does this site no good and ought to be settled elsewhere JMO...
T
TheElitehornhunter
Guest
>Justin-
>"Doug, I believe the success rate
>will go down because it
>would be harder to kill
>a bull outside the rut.
>Plus fewer rifle tags and
>more primative weapon tags.
>
>Hunters are going to pick the
>type of bull they want
>to kill so of course
>some people will kill younger
>bulls.
>
>The quality of bulls will probably
>go up because of the
>escapement factor outside the rut.
>
>
>Doug look at the success rates
>for NM during October with
>a rifle. The success rate
>is much lower than Utah
>because we choose to slaughter
>our bulls in the rut.
>This is one reason we
>issue fewer tags."
>
>
>
>Well then i must have read
>something wrong somewhere because i
>was under the impression there
>would be MORE rifle tags
>allowed due to the lower
>success rate of the October
>hunt.
>
>I have a really tough time
>with your statement #2, of
>which i will also tie
>into your NM comparison.
>
>Very few hunters get the option
>to "pick the type of
>bull they want to kill".
>
>This is public land high pressure
>hunting Justin, i gotta say
>nunya to that one for
>certain.
>Hunters had more of an option
>to "choose" during the easier
>rut time, many bulls are
>passed on.
>Arent you kind of contradicting yourself
>saying October is a tougher
>hunt yet hunters will still
>have the luxury of "choice"
>on quality?
>Show me one hunter who will
>wait 8 years to draw
>their LE tag and go
>shoot a 4x4 bull as
>their "choice" and i will
>eat my hat ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
Who said anything about a guy shooting a 4x4 bull on a LE hunt? Of course guys will still have a choice on the type of bull they kill in October. North Cache has killed a few 400 class bulls with an average age of harvest of 4.0. The elk are also hunted in Idaho.
Doug it's called hunting not killing. People who are successful are those people who put in the time and effort.
NM kills a lot of good bulls. They don't have elk hunts during the rut. I think Utahns have gotten to spoiled that everything thinks we should be managing elk for 100% success rates. The Utah elk units are like elk farms. People think that because they have waited 15 years then they should be killing a trophy bull.
We need to start issuing more tags to the average joe hunters. We have to many surplus bulls. We are killing cows to create more room for bulls. This isn't good management.
>"Doug, I believe the success rate
>will go down because it
>would be harder to kill
>a bull outside the rut.
>Plus fewer rifle tags and
>more primative weapon tags.
>
>Hunters are going to pick the
>type of bull they want
>to kill so of course
>some people will kill younger
>bulls.
>
>The quality of bulls will probably
>go up because of the
>escapement factor outside the rut.
>
>
>Doug look at the success rates
>for NM during October with
>a rifle. The success rate
>is much lower than Utah
>because we choose to slaughter
>our bulls in the rut.
>This is one reason we
>issue fewer tags."
>
>
>
>Well then i must have read
>something wrong somewhere because i
>was under the impression there
>would be MORE rifle tags
>allowed due to the lower
>success rate of the October
>hunt.
>
>I have a really tough time
>with your statement #2, of
>which i will also tie
>into your NM comparison.
>
>Very few hunters get the option
>to "pick the type of
>bull they want to kill".
>
>This is public land high pressure
>hunting Justin, i gotta say
>nunya to that one for
>certain.
>Hunters had more of an option
>to "choose" during the easier
>rut time, many bulls are
>passed on.
>Arent you kind of contradicting yourself
>saying October is a tougher
>hunt yet hunters will still
>have the luxury of "choice"
>on quality?
>Show me one hunter who will
>wait 8 years to draw
>their LE tag and go
>shoot a 4x4 bull as
>their "choice" and i will
>eat my hat ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
Who said anything about a guy shooting a 4x4 bull on a LE hunt? Of course guys will still have a choice on the type of bull they kill in October. North Cache has killed a few 400 class bulls with an average age of harvest of 4.0. The elk are also hunted in Idaho.
Doug it's called hunting not killing. People who are successful are those people who put in the time and effort.
NM kills a lot of good bulls. They don't have elk hunts during the rut. I think Utahns have gotten to spoiled that everything thinks we should be managing elk for 100% success rates. The Utah elk units are like elk farms. People think that because they have waited 15 years then they should be killing a trophy bull.
We need to start issuing more tags to the average joe hunters. We have to many surplus bulls. We are killing cows to create more room for bulls. This isn't good management.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,661
Woodruffhunter-
"Having said this, I will agree that all the "money lost", "getting ripped off", he said she said, does this site no good and ought to be settled elsewhere JMO..."
I have to highly disagree with this.
Go PM "bullmania" who shops for outfitters on this site a LOT and see what his reply will be. Then you can work on the others that use this site specifically for that reason....information.
I really don't see the difference between shoppinbg for an outfitter on here or inquiring about a spotting scope brand.
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
"Having said this, I will agree that all the "money lost", "getting ripped off", he said she said, does this site no good and ought to be settled elsewhere JMO..."
I have to highly disagree with this.
Go PM "bullmania" who shops for outfitters on this site a LOT and see what his reply will be. Then you can work on the others that use this site specifically for that reason....information.
I really don't see the difference between shoppinbg for an outfitter on here or inquiring about a spotting scope brand.
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,661
>>Justin-
>>"Doug, I believe the success rate
>>will go down because it
>>would be harder to kill
>>a bull outside the rut.
>>Plus fewer rifle tags and
>>more primative weapon tags.
>>
>>Hunters are going to pick the
>>type of bull they want
>>to kill so of course
>>some people will kill younger
>>bulls.
>>
>>The quality of bulls will probably
>>go up because of the
>>escapement factor outside the rut.
>>
>>
>>Doug look at the success rates
>>for NM during October with
>>a rifle. The success rate
>>is much lower than Utah
>>because we choose to slaughter
>>our bulls in the rut.
>>This is one reason we
>>issue fewer tags."
>>
>>
>>
>>Well then i must have read
>>something wrong somewhere because i
>>was under the impression there
>>would be MORE rifle tags
>>allowed due to the lower
>>success rate of the October
>>hunt.
>>
>>I have a really tough time
>>with your statement #2, of
>>which i will also tie
>>into your NM comparison.
>>
>>Very few hunters get the option
>>to "pick the type of
>>bull they want to kill".
>>
>>This is public land high pressure
>>hunting Justin, i gotta say
>>nunya to that one for
>>certain.
>>Hunters had more of an option
>>to "choose" during the easier
>>rut time, many bulls are
>>passed on.
>>Arent you kind of contradicting yourself
>>saying October is a tougher
>>hunt yet hunters will still
>>have the luxury of "choice"
>>on quality?
>>Show me one hunter who will
>>wait 8 years to draw
>>their LE tag and go
>>shoot a 4x4 bull as
>>their "choice" and i will
>>eat my hat ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
>
>
>Who said anything about a guy
>shooting a 4x4 bull on
>a LE hunt? Of course
>guys will still have a
>choice on the type of
>bull they kill in October.
>North Cache has killed a
>few 400 class bulls with
>an average age of harvest
>of 4.0. The elk are
>also hunted in Idaho.
>
>Doug it's called hunting not killing.
>People who are successful are
>those people who put in
>the time and effort.
>
>NM kills a lot of good
>bulls. They don't have elk
>hunts during the rut. I
>think Utahns have gotten to
>spoiled that everything thinks we
>should be managing elk for
>100% success rates. The Utah
>elk units are like elk
>farms. People think that because
>they have waited 15 years
>then they should be killing
>a trophy bull.
>
>We need to start issuing more
>tags to the average joe
>hunters. We have to many
>surplus bulls. We are killing
>cows to create more room
>for bulls. This isn't good
>management.
Justin your killing me here man!
You stated above- >Hunters are going to pick the
>type of bull they want
>to kill so of course
>some people will kill younger
>bulls.
You said that quote in response to my statement about hunters killing 4 point bulls on the Dutton the last 4 days of the hunt ;-)
And please.....there's absolutely NO reason to educate me on what hunting is called. I'm 43 years old and have been guiding professionaly for 15 straight years without a break. I am WELL aware it's called "hunting" and not killing.
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
>>"Doug, I believe the success rate
>>will go down because it
>>would be harder to kill
>>a bull outside the rut.
>>Plus fewer rifle tags and
>>more primative weapon tags.
>>
>>Hunters are going to pick the
>>type of bull they want
>>to kill so of course
>>some people will kill younger
>>bulls.
>>
>>The quality of bulls will probably
>>go up because of the
>>escapement factor outside the rut.
>>
>>
>>Doug look at the success rates
>>for NM during October with
>>a rifle. The success rate
>>is much lower than Utah
>>because we choose to slaughter
>>our bulls in the rut.
>>This is one reason we
>>issue fewer tags."
>>
>>
>>
>>Well then i must have read
>>something wrong somewhere because i
>>was under the impression there
>>would be MORE rifle tags
>>allowed due to the lower
>>success rate of the October
>>hunt.
>>
>>I have a really tough time
>>with your statement #2, of
>>which i will also tie
>>into your NM comparison.
>>
>>Very few hunters get the option
>>to "pick the type of
>>bull they want to kill".
>>
>>This is public land high pressure
>>hunting Justin, i gotta say
>>nunya to that one for
>>certain.
>>Hunters had more of an option
>>to "choose" during the easier
>>rut time, many bulls are
>>passed on.
>>Arent you kind of contradicting yourself
>>saying October is a tougher
>>hunt yet hunters will still
>>have the luxury of "choice"
>>on quality?
>>Show me one hunter who will
>>wait 8 years to draw
>>their LE tag and go
>>shoot a 4x4 bull as
>>their "choice" and i will
>>eat my hat ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
>
>
>Who said anything about a guy
>shooting a 4x4 bull on
>a LE hunt? Of course
>guys will still have a
>choice on the type of
>bull they kill in October.
>North Cache has killed a
>few 400 class bulls with
>an average age of harvest
>of 4.0. The elk are
>also hunted in Idaho.
>
>Doug it's called hunting not killing.
>People who are successful are
>those people who put in
>the time and effort.
>
>NM kills a lot of good
>bulls. They don't have elk
>hunts during the rut. I
>think Utahns have gotten to
>spoiled that everything thinks we
>should be managing elk for
>100% success rates. The Utah
>elk units are like elk
>farms. People think that because
>they have waited 15 years
>then they should be killing
>a trophy bull.
>
>We need to start issuing more
>tags to the average joe
>hunters. We have to many
>surplus bulls. We are killing
>cows to create more room
>for bulls. This isn't good
>management.
Justin your killing me here man!
You stated above- >Hunters are going to pick the
>type of bull they want
>to kill so of course
>some people will kill younger
>bulls.
You said that quote in response to my statement about hunters killing 4 point bulls on the Dutton the last 4 days of the hunt ;-)
And please.....there's absolutely NO reason to educate me on what hunting is called. I'm 43 years old and have been guiding professionaly for 15 straight years without a break. I am WELL aware it's called "hunting" and not killing.
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 11,305
AWHOLELOTTA, I know your a guide and you should take a little offense, but we all know the handfull of guides this post is going after. I doubt if your profit margin is what you say it is that your out paying local kids to scour the mtn., or paying finder fees, or planes or choppers, or $10000 for a video of an elk.
QTPIE, please quit watching mossbacks videos, we don't have 400 class bulls running on every range in this state. A lot of our so called LE units have been ravaged by too many tags(Manti, Nebo, etc.) in the name of conservation. On top of that we are now going to kill deer on the "zoo" Antelope Island because we in Utah will do anything the big money interests tell us to do.
SFW is NOT the only group fighting wolves in Utah. You think they are because they spend the most time telling every journalist they can find how important they and the work they are doing is. While we appreciate SFW help, believe me, if a few of there high dollar "friends" decide they want to hunt wolves, SFW will lead the effort to bring them here. Again, if you don't live in this state and you know about all the "important" work they are doing, how do you know?? Becauase they are the biggest bunch of PR whores in the conservation buisness, which is also why a lot of us are more than a little tired of them.
QTPIE, please quit watching mossbacks videos, we don't have 400 class bulls running on every range in this state. A lot of our so called LE units have been ravaged by too many tags(Manti, Nebo, etc.) in the name of conservation. On top of that we are now going to kill deer on the "zoo" Antelope Island because we in Utah will do anything the big money interests tell us to do.
SFW is NOT the only group fighting wolves in Utah. You think they are because they spend the most time telling every journalist they can find how important they and the work they are doing is. While we appreciate SFW help, believe me, if a few of there high dollar "friends" decide they want to hunt wolves, SFW will lead the effort to bring them here. Again, if you don't live in this state and you know about all the "important" work they are doing, how do you know?? Becauase they are the biggest bunch of PR whores in the conservation buisness, which is also why a lot of us are more than a little tired of them.
T
TheElitehornhunter
Guest
>>>Justin-
>>>"Doug, I believe the success rate
>>>will go down because it
>>>would be harder to kill
>>>a bull outside the rut.
>>>Plus fewer rifle tags and
>>>more primative weapon tags.
>>>
>>>Hunters are going to pick the
>>>type of bull they want
>>>to kill so of course
>>>some people will kill younger
>>>bulls.
>>>
>>>The quality of bulls will probably
>>>go up because of the
>>>escapement factor outside the rut.
>>>
>>>
>>>Doug look at the success rates
>>>for NM during October with
>>>a rifle. The success rate
>>>is much lower than Utah
>>>because we choose to slaughter
>>>our bulls in the rut.
>>>This is one reason we
>>>issue fewer tags."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Well then i must have read
>>>something wrong somewhere because i
>>>was under the impression there
>>>would be MORE rifle tags
>>>allowed due to the lower
>>>success rate of the October
>>>hunt.
>>>
>>>I have a really tough time
>>>with your statement #2, of
>>>which i will also tie
>>>into your NM comparison.
>>>
>>>Very few hunters get the option
>>>to "pick the type of
>>>bull they want to kill".
>>>
>>>This is public land high pressure
>>>hunting Justin, i gotta say
>>>nunya to that one for
>>>certain.
>>>Hunters had more of an option
>>>to "choose" during the easier
>>>rut time, many bulls are
>>>passed on.
>>>Arent you kind of contradicting yourself
>>>saying October is a tougher
>>>hunt yet hunters will still
>>>have the luxury of "choice"
>>>on quality?
>>>Show me one hunter who will
>>>wait 8 years to draw
>>>their LE tag and go
>>>shoot a 4x4 bull as
>>>their "choice" and i will
>>>eat my hat ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
>>
>>
>>Who said anything about a guy
>>shooting a 4x4 bull on
>>a LE hunt? Of course
>>guys will still have a
>>choice on the type of
>>bull they kill in October.
>>North Cache has killed a
>>few 400 class bulls with
>>an average age of harvest
>>of 4.0. The elk are
>>also hunted in Idaho.
>>
>>Doug it's called hunting not killing.
>>People who are successful are
>>those people who put in
>>the time and effort.
>>
>>NM kills a lot of good
>>bulls. They don't have elk
>>hunts during the rut. I
>>think Utahns have gotten to
>>spoiled that everything thinks we
>>should be managing elk for
>>100% success rates. The Utah
>>elk units are like elk
>>farms. People think that because
>>they have waited 15 years
>>then they should be killing
>>a trophy bull.
>>
>>We need to start issuing more
>>tags to the average joe
>>hunters. We have to many
>>surplus bulls. We are killing
>>cows to create more room
>>for bulls. This isn't good
>>management.
>
>Justin your killing me here man!
>
>You stated above- >Hunters are going to pick the
>>type of bull they want
>>to kill so of course
>>some people will kill younger
>>bulls.
>You said that quote in response
>to my statement about hunters
>killing 4 point bulls on
>the Dutton the last 4
>days of the hunt ;-)
>
>
>And please.....there's absolutely NO reason to
>educate me on what hunting
>is called. I'm 43 years
>old and have been guiding
>professionaly for 15 straight years
>without a break. I am
>WELL aware it's called "hunting"
>and not killing.
>
>
>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
I never meant it as doug education. I know you have been guiding a lot of years. What about those trophy bull calves that you posted about on UWN. You said that calves that are born in May will have antlers in August.
They must be the 400 class bulls.
>>>"Doug, I believe the success rate
>>>will go down because it
>>>would be harder to kill
>>>a bull outside the rut.
>>>Plus fewer rifle tags and
>>>more primative weapon tags.
>>>
>>>Hunters are going to pick the
>>>type of bull they want
>>>to kill so of course
>>>some people will kill younger
>>>bulls.
>>>
>>>The quality of bulls will probably
>>>go up because of the
>>>escapement factor outside the rut.
>>>
>>>
>>>Doug look at the success rates
>>>for NM during October with
>>>a rifle. The success rate
>>>is much lower than Utah
>>>because we choose to slaughter
>>>our bulls in the rut.
>>>This is one reason we
>>>issue fewer tags."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Well then i must have read
>>>something wrong somewhere because i
>>>was under the impression there
>>>would be MORE rifle tags
>>>allowed due to the lower
>>>success rate of the October
>>>hunt.
>>>
>>>I have a really tough time
>>>with your statement #2, of
>>>which i will also tie
>>>into your NM comparison.
>>>
>>>Very few hunters get the option
>>>to "pick the type of
>>>bull they want to kill".
>>>
>>>This is public land high pressure
>>>hunting Justin, i gotta say
>>>nunya to that one for
>>>certain.
>>>Hunters had more of an option
>>>to "choose" during the easier
>>>rut time, many bulls are
>>>passed on.
>>>Arent you kind of contradicting yourself
>>>saying October is a tougher
>>>hunt yet hunters will still
>>>have the luxury of "choice"
>>>on quality?
>>>Show me one hunter who will
>>>wait 8 years to draw
>>>their LE tag and go
>>>shoot a 4x4 bull as
>>>their "choice" and i will
>>>eat my hat ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
>>
>>
>>Who said anything about a guy
>>shooting a 4x4 bull on
>>a LE hunt? Of course
>>guys will still have a
>>choice on the type of
>>bull they kill in October.
>>North Cache has killed a
>>few 400 class bulls with
>>an average age of harvest
>>of 4.0. The elk are
>>also hunted in Idaho.
>>
>>Doug it's called hunting not killing.
>>People who are successful are
>>those people who put in
>>the time and effort.
>>
>>NM kills a lot of good
>>bulls. They don't have elk
>>hunts during the rut. I
>>think Utahns have gotten to
>>spoiled that everything thinks we
>>should be managing elk for
>>100% success rates. The Utah
>>elk units are like elk
>>farms. People think that because
>>they have waited 15 years
>>then they should be killing
>>a trophy bull.
>>
>>We need to start issuing more
>>tags to the average joe
>>hunters. We have to many
>>surplus bulls. We are killing
>>cows to create more room
>>for bulls. This isn't good
>>management.
>
>Justin your killing me here man!
>
>You stated above- >Hunters are going to pick the
>>type of bull they want
>>to kill so of course
>>some people will kill younger
>>bulls.
>You said that quote in response
>to my statement about hunters
>killing 4 point bulls on
>the Dutton the last 4
>days of the hunt ;-)
>
>
>And please.....there's absolutely NO reason to
>educate me on what hunting
>is called. I'm 43 years
>old and have been guiding
>professionaly for 15 straight years
>without a break. I am
>WELL aware it's called "hunting"
>and not killing.
>
>
>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
I never meant it as doug education. I know you have been guiding a lot of years. What about those trophy bull calves that you posted about on UWN. You said that calves that are born in May will have antlers in August.
They must be the 400 class bulls.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,661
Lol!!! Your probably right on there!
Funny looking little dudes, one only had one little nub about 3", the other had one about 2" and the other side an inch longer. They actually looked kind of like a little goat.
Maybe in 9 more years when my son draws, they will be in their prime and sporting some pretty good stuff ;-)
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
Funny looking little dudes, one only had one little nub about 3", the other had one about 2" and the other side an inch longer. They actually looked kind of like a little goat.
Maybe in 9 more years when my son draws, they will be in their prime and sporting some pretty good stuff ;-)
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
T
TheElitehornhunter
Guest
>Lol!!! Your probably right on there!
>
>Funny looking little dudes, one only
>had one little nub about
>3", the other had one
>about 2" and the other
>side an inch longer. They
>actually looked kind of like
>a little goat.
>Maybe in 9 more years when
>my son draws, they will
>be in their prime and
>sporting some pretty good stuff
>;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
Well the problem is.....calves that are born in May don't have antlers in augest though. Maybe you saw stinkystomper's muscle milk goats on the mountain.
>
>Funny looking little dudes, one only
>had one little nub about
>3", the other had one
>about 2" and the other
>side an inch longer. They
>actually looked kind of like
>a little goat.
>Maybe in 9 more years when
>my son draws, they will
>be in their prime and
>sporting some pretty good stuff
>;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
Well the problem is.....calves that are born in May don't have antlers in augest though. Maybe you saw stinkystomper's muscle milk goats on the mountain.
AWHOLELOTTABULL
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,357
Hoss - my profit margin is exactly what I said it is. That's why I have another full time job to pay the bills. The guide and outfitting gig just lets me be in the hills as much as I want to be in the fall. I actually take a huge paycut when I guide. I film hunts because I want to share them with family and friends and because when I'm old and I'm gumming my soup I can sit back and remember the good ol days. I know that you and I are on opposite ends of the stick when it comes to CWMU, guides and outfitters but I bet if you spent one day on the mountain with me we would have a lot more in common than even you can immagine.;-)
It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
I know that you and I are on opposite ends of the stick when it comes to CWMU, guides and outfitters but I bet if you spent one day on the mountain with me we would have a lot more in common than even you can immagine.;-)It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,661
Hmmmm, must have been a strange phenomenon, i consider myself lucky to have seen them ;-)
To bad my grandfathers not still alive, he drew an "antlerless" tag quite a few years ago on the wastach and wanted a calf instead of an old cow. I still remember chewing his butt for killing a very young bull calf with nubs.
Good thing they weren't even close to the 5" rule set by the law ;-)
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
To bad my grandfathers not still alive, he drew an "antlerless" tag quite a few years ago on the wastach and wanted a calf instead of an old cow. I still remember chewing his butt for killing a very young bull calf with nubs.
Good thing they weren't even close to the 5" rule set by the law ;-)
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
T
TheElitehornhunter
Guest
>Hmmmm, must have been a strange
>phenomenon, i consider myself lucky
>to have seen them ;-)
>
>
>To bad my grandfathers not still
>alive, he drew an "antlerless"
>tag quite a few years
>ago on the wastach and
>wanted a calf instead of
>an old cow. I still
>remember chewing his butt for
>killing a very young bull
>calf with nubs.
>Good thing they weren't even close
>to the 5" rule set
>by the law ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
Yeah, it's to bad you didn't get some pictures. You need to bring your camera when your climbing those hills like a mtn goat.
>phenomenon, i consider myself lucky
>to have seen them ;-)
>
>
>To bad my grandfathers not still
>alive, he drew an "antlerless"
>tag quite a few years
>ago on the wastach and
>wanted a calf instead of
>an old cow. I still
>remember chewing his butt for
>killing a very young bull
>calf with nubs.
>Good thing they weren't even close
>to the 5" rule set
>by the law ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
Yeah, it's to bad you didn't get some pictures. You need to bring your camera when your climbing those hills like a mtn goat.
T
TheElitehornhunter
Guest
>Hoss - my profit margin is
>exactly what I said it
>is. That's why I
>have another full time job
>to pay the bills.
>The guide and outfitting gig
>just lets me be in
>the hills as much as
>I want to be in
>the fall. I actually
>take a huge paycut when
>I guide. I film
>hunts because I want to
>share them with family and
>friends and because when I'm
>old and I'm gumming my
>soup I can sit back
>and remember the good ol
>days. I know that
>you and I are on
>opposite ends of the stick
>when it comes to CWMU,
>guides and outfitters but I
>bet if you spent one
>day on the mountain with
>me we would have a
>lot more in common than
>even you can immagine.;-)
>
>It's always an adventure!!!
>www.awholelottabull.com
Yeah, because you both can pee standing up.
>exactly what I said it
>is. That's why I
>have another full time job
>to pay the bills.
>The guide and outfitting gig
>just lets me be in
>the hills as much as
>I want to be in
>the fall. I actually
>take a huge paycut when
>I guide. I film
>hunts because I want to
>share them with family and
>friends and because when I'm
>old and I'm gumming my
>soup I can sit back
>and remember the good ol
>days.
I know that >you and I are on
>opposite ends of the stick
>when it comes to CWMU,
>guides and outfitters but I
>bet if you spent one
>day on the mountain with
>me we would have a
>lot more in common than
>even you can immagine.;-)
>
>It's always an adventure!!!
>www.awholelottabull.com
Yeah, because you both can pee standing up.
AWHOLELOTTABULL
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,357
EHH - do I know you? I know you have a problem with others on here but do you really want to pick a fight with me?
It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
H
hoytme
Guest
Slamdunk, a bull calf having nubs I believe as I have seen it myself, but on the UWN you implied bull calves can be legal spikes the year they are born which I do NOT believe. Carry on.
T
TheElitehornhunter
Guest
>EHH - do I know you?
> I know you have
>a problem with others on
>here but do you really
>want to pick a fight
>with me?
>
>It's always an adventure!!!
>www.awholelottabull.com
Yeah, I have met you before when we went to the Jeff Foxworthy concert I believe.
I wasn't meaning it in a bad way. I was just teasing. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.
> I know you have
>a problem with others on
>here but do you really
>want to pick a fight
>with me?
>
>It's always an adventure!!!
>www.awholelottabull.com
Yeah, I have met you before when we went to the Jeff Foxworthy concert I believe.
I wasn't meaning it in a bad way. I was just teasing. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.
AWHOLELOTTABULL
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,357
No worries. Hard to tell sometimes on the computer. I'm actually a pretty easy guy to get along with no matter what Bessy says!
It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,661
>Slamdunk, a bull calf having nubs
>I believe as I have
>seen it myself, but on
>the UWN you implied bull
>calves can be legal spikes
>the year they are born
>which I do NOT believe.
>Carry on.
>
As stated in my post about the Justin, these little guys were 2" maybe 3" at best, which is in fact the longest nubs on a calf i have ever seen. What i was implying on the UWN was when i saw them in july or August at that length, i was crossing my fingers that in two months they would NOT reach the 5" minimum set by the law, which you are correct, should not ;-)
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
>I believe as I have
>seen it myself, but on
>the UWN you implied bull
>calves can be legal spikes
>the year they are born
>which I do NOT believe.
>Carry on.
>
As stated in my post about the Justin, these little guys were 2" maybe 3" at best, which is in fact the longest nubs on a calf i have ever seen. What i was implying on the UWN was when i saw them in july or August at that length, i was crossing my fingers that in two months they would NOT reach the 5" minimum set by the law, which you are correct, should not ;-)
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
Wow so much drama... So many threads that all go back to the root off all evil.. MONEY and the LOOK AT ME HUNTER put these two together and ya really get a chitstorm.
Stinky and the arrogant entitlement crew that feel like they should be allowed to buy a public resource because they can are the enemy of the accepted wildlife model adopted in the west and in turn of the western hunter.
I remember as a kid going to Redmond Utah every year on the opening of pheasant season. The whole town would turn out eat breakfast together and figure out who would hunt in whose field.
Welcome Hunters signs were everywhere and a landowner was insulted if you offered anything more than a pop at the end of the day.
Now days we've got the wealthy shooters buying the right to "drive all night from Idaho" and bust a cap in to a freak of an elk that came from God knows where because a spotter had found the bull and got the guy on the phone. Hell if a picture is posted anywhere without compensation the chit hits the fan. Spotters, CWMU's, Livestock Assoc. BRIBE TAGS, guys that feel good about killing an animal thats a half mile away and we are proud to call this hunting??
All of the above makes me want to puke.. I've been saying this for 10 years on this site. Ask the CAT, KTC or many others that wish I would crawl back in to my hole.
If ya'll are happy to sit on your asses and let this go on you deserve exactly what you get!!!
******************************************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!
Your are spot on.
Stinky and the arrogant entitlement crew that feel like they should be allowed to buy a public resource because they can are the enemy of the accepted wildlife model adopted in the west and in turn of the western hunter.
I remember as a kid going to Redmond Utah every year on the opening of pheasant season. The whole town would turn out eat breakfast together and figure out who would hunt in whose field.
Welcome Hunters signs were everywhere and a landowner was insulted if you offered anything more than a pop at the end of the day.
Now days we've got the wealthy shooters buying the right to "drive all night from Idaho" and bust a cap in to a freak of an elk that came from God knows where because a spotter had found the bull and got the guy on the phone. Hell if a picture is posted anywhere without compensation the chit hits the fan. Spotters, CWMU's, Livestock Assoc. BRIBE TAGS, guys that feel good about killing an animal thats a half mile away and we are proud to call this hunting??
All of the above makes me want to puke.. I've been saying this for 10 years on this site. Ask the CAT, KTC or many others that wish I would crawl back in to my hole.
If ya'll are happy to sit on your asses and let this go on you deserve exactly what you get!!!
******************************************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!
Your are spot on.
AWHOLELOTTABULL
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,357
ww - Those were some good breakfasts at the church weren't they? I could hardly walk a ditch bank after eating all that food. By they way, did you ever find my boot in Redmond pond?
It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
Jim that sucker is too deep and if ya happen to find a muskrat run you were gonna go for a swim. Great opening day duck shoots
( back then ya had to wait till noon ) great people and good times for a kid.
******************************************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!
Your are spot on.
( back then ya had to wait till noon ) great people and good times for a kid.
******************************************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!
Your are spot on.
AWHOLELOTTABULL
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,357
I remember setting up some goose decoys one day with some buddies in those fields just west of the pond. 4 of us limited out in less than an hour. Nice spot for some wood ducks too if you catch them at the right time.
It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
B
B_BOP_A_LU_LU
Guest
Wiley is right,
"All of the above makes me want to puke.. I've been saying this for 10 years on this site. Ask the CAT, KTC or many others that wish I would crawl back in to my hole."
Been sayin it for years!
Easy wiley,
I got a feelin you're gonna pull that tag here in a couple years and OH BY GAWD THE OPPORTUNITY!
Thanks to the last few years of poor management & more poor future management I hope you find what you're looking for wiley,I really do!
Do you see anything getting any better wiley?
I personally don't,but that's just me!
Hang in there wiley,you could be in the basin waitin for somebody to throw your next can out the window at ya.
"All of the above makes me want to puke.. I've been saying this for 10 years on this site. Ask the CAT, KTC or many others that wish I would crawl back in to my hole."
Been sayin it for years!
Easy wiley,
I got a feelin you're gonna pull that tag here in a couple years and OH BY GAWD THE OPPORTUNITY!
Thanks to the last few years of poor management & more poor future management I hope you find what you're looking for wiley,I really do!
Do you see anything getting any better wiley?
I personally don't,but that's just me!
Hang in there wiley,you could be in the basin waitin for somebody to throw your next can out the window at ya.
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
We used to run the lane on the west side of the lake and hunt more on the south end. Man some nights were the death march from hell!! The old army duffel's filled with blocks, guns, shells,
and more often than not a limit of birds. The ground out there
was like I would figure a Scottish bog being. Really weird hiking
******************************************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!
Your are spot on.
and more often than not a limit of birds. The ground out there
was like I would figure a Scottish bog being. Really weird hiking
******************************************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!
Your are spot on.
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
Bull@$^* CAT!!!! I'm gonna sell a kidney and my left eye and buy us both Book Cliffs tags!!! You find the bulls, herd them sumbitches by the road and then call me.
******************************************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!
Your are spot on.
******************************************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!
Your are spot on.
Interesting that some people assume I hunt with a stick, well maybe a carbon stick. At least some of you got my point about the threads on here. I have no issues with guides or outfitters and have made good experiences out of some of the biggest BS deals you can think up. I paid my money but was prepared just in case the deal went south and both times they were major bogus deals. Still had a good time and killed my animals. As for dinner Stinky I will pass but thanks for the offer. I wouldn't get close to the SCI group if you paid me. I remember when they jumped in to support Taulman and how fast they back pedalled on that one. I really was trying to make a point that these backbiting threads harm the people who earn a living working hard and providing good service to their clients. I also believe allowing private tags is the road to destruction because big game becomes big business very quickly. The fact that Stinky can afford to buy an auction tag is great. That tag will help to fund some good work here.
W
wapiti67
Guest
And after reading all the posts and rebuttals by Stinky and Slam...You Tards sure left out a ton of details and blew the others totally out of Proportion...Stinky...Dude, I NEVER asked you for 500 bucks to cover my expenses..i saved the receipts like you asked and told you what the totals were...178.34...nothing more! maybe if you had stuck to the original plan and followed the advice of some superior guide, you would't have killed such a dink bull! Yeah I said it...Neeneer, Neener..
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
I can't even read all the posts and the quotes and arguing without puking but...
there seems to be some confusion on a couple of concepts I would like to point out. Basic math.
Success rate does not equal the number of animals killed. It equals the rate at which hunters will kill animals. So if there's 100 tags and the success rate equals 50% 50 animals will be killed. If there are 200 tags and success rate drops to 25% there will still be 50 animlas killed. So if you issue more tags in a non rut hunt and success rate plummets to half what it was, biologically it will have NO EFFECT on the population.
Here in Nevada the tag numbers are usually backed into from a harvest objective. A biologist says he is comfortable killing "x" animals. You can adjust the tag numbers, timing of the seasons, length of season and therefore success rate a multitude of ways to achieve the objective of killing "x" animals.
example:
Say biologically you wish to kill 10 animals
in a rut hunt you predict a 75% success rate.
10 divided by 0.75 = 13 tags or rounded up, 14
assume in a later season success rate drops to 25%
10 divided by 0.25 = 40 tags
40 vs 14 equals more "opportunity" for hunters, albeit perhaps not the opportunity to harvest all trophy animals.
Other than the trophy factor there is NO difference to the population whether you provide more or less opportunity. That is purely a social factor. And it doesn't make a $hit to the animals whether rich guys shoot em or average joes.
Just a point of clarification. There's a million ways to get to the right answer mathematically.
there seems to be some confusion on a couple of concepts I would like to point out. Basic math.
Success rate does not equal the number of animals killed. It equals the rate at which hunters will kill animals. So if there's 100 tags and the success rate equals 50% 50 animals will be killed. If there are 200 tags and success rate drops to 25% there will still be 50 animlas killed. So if you issue more tags in a non rut hunt and success rate plummets to half what it was, biologically it will have NO EFFECT on the population.
Here in Nevada the tag numbers are usually backed into from a harvest objective. A biologist says he is comfortable killing "x" animals. You can adjust the tag numbers, timing of the seasons, length of season and therefore success rate a multitude of ways to achieve the objective of killing "x" animals.
example:
Say biologically you wish to kill 10 animals
in a rut hunt you predict a 75% success rate.
10 divided by 0.75 = 13 tags or rounded up, 14
assume in a later season success rate drops to 25%
10 divided by 0.25 = 40 tags
40 vs 14 equals more "opportunity" for hunters, albeit perhaps not the opportunity to harvest all trophy animals.
Other than the trophy factor there is NO difference to the population whether you provide more or less opportunity. That is purely a social factor. And it doesn't make a $hit to the animals whether rich guys shoot em or average joes.
Just a point of clarification. There's a million ways to get to the right answer mathematically.
H
hoytme
Guest
Good post NVB! Lower success rates allow for more opportunity w/o hurting quality, something I have been telling bessy for years!
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
LAST EDITED ON Mar-17-10 AT 01:37PM (MST)[p]I did not say it doesn't lower quality! I said it won't hurt the health of the population. Increasing "opportunity" may adversely affect quality, at least in terms of animals harvested. Quality vs quantity is a whole different set of equations.
H
hoytme
Guest
If success rates are lowered and the same number of bulls are harvested, why/how would quality suffer? If hunters are less selective due to lower success rates, the odds of a high-end bull escaping to live through another year INCREASE. Instead of a hunter passing on a 340 class bull, knowing the odds are high to find a bigger bull, the hunter will likely shoot the 340 bull, thus letting a bigger bull survive to get even bigger the following year. That is why archers, on average, kill smaller bulls. they are less selective due to the lower odds of getting in range of a bigger bull, so they take what is at hand. A current limited entry unit, if made archery only, could handle 10 times the number of permits as what are issued currently, and quality would would stay the same or increase. The Wasatch Front with a 3+ month season the is OTC archery only is proof of that. It is probably second on to the Henry unit for number of 180+" bucks chewing their cud as I type.
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
I was thinking of a situation where few tags results in low hunter pressure vs lots of tags increasing hunter pressure and frustration and less quality in terms of hunter satisfaction.
Quality hunt vs Quantity of tags
Quantity of animals vs Quality of animals
Increased Opportunity vs Hunter Saturation
Many sides of the same coin.
Problem is when we hunters draw a tag we wanna be the only guy out there and have trophy animals aplenty. AND we want to draw the tag often. In reality few hunters really know what we want or at least how to get it, or are unwilling to make the choices that are required..
Quality hunt vs Quantity of tags
Quantity of animals vs Quality of animals
Increased Opportunity vs Hunter Saturation
Many sides of the same coin.
Problem is when we hunters draw a tag we wanna be the only guy out there and have trophy animals aplenty. AND we want to draw the tag often.
In reality few hunters really know what we want or at least how to get it, or are unwilling to make the choices that are required..
H
hoytme
Guest
True enough. Case in point, in 2008 the UDWR did a survey on hunter satisfaction. One of the questions asked was "Were you happy with the number of hunters in the field this last year?" The group with the lowest satisfaction was the premium limited entry deer hunters, and the group with the highest were the general season archers. Guess which of the two groups had the most hunters in the field?
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,661
>True enough. Case in point, in
>2008 the UDWR did a
>survey on hunter satisfaction. One
>of the questions asked was
>"Were you happy with the
>number of hunters in the
>field this last year?" The
>group with the lowest satisfaction
>was the premium limited entry
>deer hunters, and the group
>with the highest were the
>general season archers. Guess which
>of the two groups had
>the most hunters in the
>field?
I have a question, and it's asked without animosity.
Where are you getting ALL this "information", stats, survey tallies, etc, etc and from years past? Where can the rest of us see it?
When you speak it's like you have them there on your desk ready to answer any question from today and into the past.
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
>2008 the UDWR did a
>survey on hunter satisfaction. One
>of the questions asked was
>"Were you happy with the
>number of hunters in the
>field this last year?" The
>group with the lowest satisfaction
>was the premium limited entry
>deer hunters, and the group
>with the highest were the
>general season archers. Guess which
>of the two groups had
>the most hunters in the
>field?
I have a question, and it's asked without animosity.
Where are you getting ALL this "information", stats, survey tallies, etc, etc and from years past? Where can the rest of us see it?
When you speak it's like you have them there on your desk ready to answer any question from today and into the past.
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
H
hoytme
Guest
"Where are you getting ALL this "information", stats, survey tallies, etc, etc and from years past? Where can the rest of us see it?
When you speak it's like you have them there on your desk ready to answer any question from today and into the past."
I do indeed have many stats/surveys/studies at hand, or at least where I can review them when needed. With a bad back, and an addiction to Mt Dew, I sleep maybe 2-3 hours a night, so I read, run numbers, make spread sheets at all hours of the night. (I know I am a 'loser', but it is who I am)
I don't have the survey on hunter satisfaction handy, but I will see if I can locate it for you. It was discussed, at length, at EVERY Bucks and Bulls RAC meeting in 2008. Since I attended 4 of the 5 RAC's plus the Wildlife Board I have most of it ingrained in my lumpy melon. Part of my, or I should say UBA's, argument against doing away with statewide archery for deer was based on the survey. The DWR made the recommendation due to pressure from SFW, yet their OWN survey showed that archers were the most satisfied with the number of hunters in the field while they where hunting, that includes GS muzzy/GS rifle/LE/premium LE for deer. Yet, they still did away with statewide archery. That is why the results of that particular survey are seared into my skull. As for the survey done this last fall on the elk, I can shoot you the results, or you can visit the Utah Wildlife Cooperative page on facebook and look at it and many other spreadsheets/data/surveys at any time.
I often forget the simplest tasks, but I can recall most data I read when numbers are involved. My wife often calls me Rain Man, and I don't think it's meant as a compliment.
When you speak it's like you have them there on your desk ready to answer any question from today and into the past."
I do indeed have many stats/surveys/studies at hand, or at least where I can review them when needed. With a bad back, and an addiction to Mt Dew, I sleep maybe 2-3 hours a night, so I read, run numbers, make spread sheets at all hours of the night. (I know I am a 'loser', but it is who I am)
I don't have the survey on hunter satisfaction handy, but I will see if I can locate it for you. It was discussed, at length, at EVERY Bucks and Bulls RAC meeting in 2008. Since I attended 4 of the 5 RAC's plus the Wildlife Board I have most of it ingrained in my lumpy melon. Part of my, or I should say UBA's, argument against doing away with statewide archery for deer was based on the survey. The DWR made the recommendation due to pressure from SFW, yet their OWN survey showed that archers were the most satisfied with the number of hunters in the field while they where hunting, that includes GS muzzy/GS rifle/LE/premium LE for deer. Yet, they still did away with statewide archery. That is why the results of that particular survey are seared into my skull. As for the survey done this last fall on the elk, I can shoot you the results, or you can visit the Utah Wildlife Cooperative page on facebook and look at it and many other spreadsheets/data/surveys at any time.
I often forget the simplest tasks, but I can recall most data I read when numbers are involved. My wife often calls me Rain Man, and I don't think it's meant as a compliment.
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,661
>"Where are you getting ALL this
>"information", stats, survey tallies, etc,
>etc and from years past?
>Where can the rest of
>us see it?
>When you speak it's like you
>have them there on your
>desk ready to answer any
>question from today and into
>the past."
>
>I do indeed have many stats/surveys/studies
>at hand, or at least
>where I can review them
>when needed. With a bad
>back, and an addiction to
>Mt Dew, I sleep maybe
>2-3 hours a night, so
>I read, run numbers, make
>spread sheets at all hours
>of the night. (I know
>I am a 'loser', but
>it is who I am)
>
>
>I don't have the survey on
>hunter satisfaction handy, but I
>will see if I can
>locate it for you. It
>was discussed, at length, at
>EVERY Bucks and Bulls RAC
>meeting in 2008. Since I
>attended 4 of the 5
>RAC's plus the Wildlife Board
>I have most of it
>ingrained in my lumpy melon.
>Part of my, or I
>should say UBA's, argument against
>doing away with statewide archery
>for deer was based on
>the survey. The DWR made
>the recommendation due to pressure
>from SFW, yet their OWN
>survey showed that archers were
>the most satisfied with the
>number of hunters in the
>field while they where hunting,
>that includes GS muzzy/GS rifle/LE/premium
>LE for deer. Yet, they
>still did away with statewide
>archery. That is why the
>results of that particular survey
>are seared into my skull.
>As for the survey done
>this last fall on the
>elk, I can shoot you
>the results, or you can
>visit the Utah Wildlife Cooperative
>page on facebook and look
>at it and many other
>spreadsheets/data/surveys at any time.
>
>I often forget the simplest tasks,
>but I can recall most
>data I read when numbers
>are involved. My wife often
>calls me Rain Man, and
>I don't think it's meant
>as a compliment.
Thank you Bart, fair enough.
And even though the past few days i have been rough on you, your extensive knowledge and "rain man" capabilities are quite commendable, not to mention impressive......as long as they are truthful and accurate ;-)
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
>"information", stats, survey tallies, etc,
>etc and from years past?
>Where can the rest of
>us see it?
>When you speak it's like you
>have them there on your
>desk ready to answer any
>question from today and into
>the past."
>
>I do indeed have many stats/surveys/studies
>at hand, or at least
>where I can review them
>when needed. With a bad
>back, and an addiction to
>Mt Dew, I sleep maybe
>2-3 hours a night, so
>I read, run numbers, make
>spread sheets at all hours
>of the night. (I know
>I am a 'loser', but
>it is who I am)
>
>
>I don't have the survey on
>hunter satisfaction handy, but I
>will see if I can
>locate it for you. It
>was discussed, at length, at
>EVERY Bucks and Bulls RAC
>meeting in 2008. Since I
>attended 4 of the 5
>RAC's plus the Wildlife Board
>I have most of it
>ingrained in my lumpy melon.
>Part of my, or I
>should say UBA's, argument against
>doing away with statewide archery
>for deer was based on
>the survey. The DWR made
>the recommendation due to pressure
>from SFW, yet their OWN
>survey showed that archers were
>the most satisfied with the
>number of hunters in the
>field while they where hunting,
>that includes GS muzzy/GS rifle/LE/premium
>LE for deer. Yet, they
>still did away with statewide
>archery. That is why the
>results of that particular survey
>are seared into my skull.
>As for the survey done
>this last fall on the
>elk, I can shoot you
>the results, or you can
>visit the Utah Wildlife Cooperative
>page on facebook and look
>at it and many other
>spreadsheets/data/surveys at any time.
>
>I often forget the simplest tasks,
>but I can recall most
>data I read when numbers
>are involved. My wife often
>calls me Rain Man, and
>I don't think it's meant
>as a compliment.
Thank you Bart, fair enough.
And even though the past few days i have been rough on you, your extensive knowledge and "rain man" capabilities are quite commendable, not to mention impressive......as long as they are truthful and accurate ;-)
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
