Wyoming Wolf Decision Out Today

M

mightyhunter

Very Active Member
Messages
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LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-14 AT 04:53PM (MST)[p]https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2012cv1833-68
Here is the ruling released today from the Federal District Court in Washington, D.C.

At the risk of posting something that is not of interest to someone like jm77. I will, for the most part, leave you all to interpret the case for yourselves. The decision is lengthy.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-14 AT 04:50PM (MST)[p]http://trib.com/lifestyles/recreation/judge-reinstates-protections-for-wyoming-wolves/article_ef3de815-1354-5734-815e-a8d294c1bd94.html

This is an inaccurate newspaper article on how the Federal District Judge from Washington D.C. ruled on this subject.

The judge only granted summary judgement on one of the 3 legal arguments raised by the eco-elites. The judge ruled that the wolf had recovered in Wyoming and that the predator zone was rational. These are significant rulings. What she based her ruling on was SHE DID NOT believe that Wyoming gave adequate and legally binding promises guaranteeing proper management of the wolf in this state. The case was heard in December of 2013 and this judge waited until a week before the wolf hunts start in the rophy zone to render her opinion. What would her motivation be for that? If she had ruled sooner, this issue may have been resolved before the season began.

I wouldn't want to be a wolf in Wyoming this hunting season.

just sayin... mh
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-14 AT 05:20PM (MST)[p]I told you so...again.

There was an easy way around this whole fiasco and nobody cared to listen. Wyoming has had multiple chances and opportunities to get this thing right and has blown every chance.

Letting the courts decide these issues when there is practical and reasonable solutions outside the courtroom to be had, is tragic. Its a waste of time, effort, and money and is 100% avoidable.

Wyoming failure to recognize the weak link in their wolf management plan (predator zone) for the last decade, has handed the pro-wolf crowd everything they need on a silver platter to stop wolf management/hunting.

I'm not surprised in the slightest by the ruling.

Wyomings lack of vision and leadership in the wolf issue delayed delisting in MT and ID for at least 5 years and has now cost Wyoming state control of wolf management.

Great job (Farm Bureau, Wyoming SFW, Legislature, etc. etc. etc.)...you sure showed them!
 
I would have to disagree with Buzzed up H on this one. The only plan that will ever work in Wyoming includes predator zones. Stick with it Wyoming we don't need wolves. There is a reason the early settlers annulated the wolves, They weren't stupid.
 
Buzz H,

You need to read the decision my friend before you start replying to this post. As the always self professed smartest guy in the room, you shouldn't shoot from the hip. The predator zone was upheld by this judge. She rendered a decision based on the fact that she did not believe that adequate legally binding promises had been given by the State of Wyoming for wolf management. This is a what you receive when you have a Ivy League law school graduate, appointed as federal district judge in DC, by your buddy Obama, who had no business hearing the case to begin with. She created a TECHNICALITY in order to stop the wolf hunts in 2014. My guess is she made her decision before ever hearing the case and used this as the excuse. Another win for judicial activism on many fronts.Had she ruled sooner than 10 months after she heard the case (a week before the hunts) this technicality might have been timely corrected.

just sayin...mh
 
Yeah, its all TECHNICALITIES that Wyoming has caused this whole issue...as always, you're the guy making excuses for Wyomings lack of vision regarding this entire issue.

The predator zone may have been upheld, but the predator zone is also the reason for the inadequate "legally binding promises" regrading wolf management by the State of Wyoming...yes?

I wonder why Montana and Idaho are still conducting hunts and have management control???

Probably another of your "technicalities"...

Just sayin'.
 
Buzz H,

Again, you are demonstrating your ignorance on what the judge made her ruling on. You should read more than the blogs and press releases of the "wolf hippies". I quote from the opinion: "The court upholds that the USFWS determination that the predator zone is not a significant part of the wolf's range is reasonable". That is significant, and if not appealed, will end that argument for your friend's the "wolf hippies". Read pages 35-38 of the opinion before shooting your mouth off. In your zeal to be vindicated, you stumble yet again. I would expect more from you but I don't know why.

I also note that you have no comment on the judge waiting 10 months after hearing the case to render her opinion. I am sure that in your mind, that is just a mere coincidence. If the ruling had been timely, the alleged defect may have been corrected and wolves would be hunted next week. I also note that you have no comment on the fact that a federal judge in D.C.,appointed by Obama, somehow thought this issue was something she should be involved in. When confronted with an identical lawsuit by the wolf hippies in federal court in Colorado, that federal district judge determined that venue for the issues was proper in Wyoming and not in Colorado. When she claimed that the D.C. court had venue because the issue was of "national importance" it was obvious to anyone that she had an agenda. Your friends "the wolf hippies" were rewarded by this Obama appointee for forum shopping. That could be a dangerous precedent down the road. Somehow, I feel confident that you would be fine if all decisions emanated from Washington D.C.

In MY opinion the D.C. judge made her mind up before hearing the case. I believe that a technicality was used as an excuse to find for the Plaintiffs. It was the weakest argument raised by the eco-elites in the litigation. However, it was an issue that could be resolved subjectively and not with objective facts. Again, read the opinion and understand it before you slap yourself on the back and say "BuzzH is right again" On the two most crucial issues she ruled in favor of the Wyoming Wolf Plan and denied summary judgment for the Plaintiffs.

My personal opinion is this. I am not surprised by the ruling given where it came from. It is a setback, but only a temporary one. Unfortunately, many folks will use this poor decision as an excuse to engage in the extermination of the wolf in Wyoming. By ruling the way she did, Judge Amy Berman Jackson may have setback wolf recovery in Wyoming forever.

just sayin...mh
 
MH,

Are there really that many black helicopters flying over Clark Wyoming...or is it just you?

Wyomings plan has been a goat $!ck from the start, time to admit it and move on. Wyoming left the door open for litigation with their crap plan. There is a reason that Montana and idaho still have management control and wyoming is on the outside looking in. You can continue to ignore facts all you want, make all the excuses you want, but the bottom line is, anyone that has paid attention to the wolf issue saw this coming all along.

Its also a fact this entire situation could have, and should have been avoided. The state made a huge mistake catering to a handful of wolf haters that had the" only good wolf is a dead wolf" mentality. Wyoming pushed all in holding rags thinking they could bluff at winning it all. They've lost...and lost big. The chit part is they took us all down with them. Hope those calling the shots are proud of themselves.

If you think I'm happy about being right yet again...you're delusional.
 
MH

Since I am worthy to be in your headline I will respond. You felt the need to post a completely political story of Gosar attacking Mead for what the G&F did to itself, and you thought that might be of interest to anyone?

Grow some thicker skin.

Just sayin...
 
jm 77,

Actually, I thought the article was interesting because of the comments made by the readers. I also thought it showed some of the different perspectives held on the subject. Thick skin is not a problem for me. You were dismissive and acted like a jerk. Is that direct enough for you friend.

I would encourage everyone to read the 40 page decision from Judge Amy Berman Jackson. That is why I posted it for you. Also read the case history on how she ended up deciding the case was something a federal judge in D.C. should be hearing. Also be aware that a federal district judge from Wyoming may also be hearing this case and could render a different opinion. Draw your own conclusions from what you read.

Buzz H, I promise to ignore the "black helicopters" if you promise not to wear your green USFS wool pants so tight.

just sayin...mh
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-14 AT 09:59PM (MST)[p]I know some disagree with the predator zone. But have the people that don't like been in the areas?

Like Meetetsee for example the main highway divides it. At that point its ranch land and the boonies. The elk have been pushed into those due to partially to wolves. But now more cattle/sheep will be killed and that's more money we will spend for livestock kill...I keep hearing a rumor from locals and the local game warden about a pack of 18 wolves running into that area and up to spring creek area. The game warden claims its the biggest pack in the state.. With that being said do I really think the pack is that big, well its possible but lets say its true that's a lot of meat to feed a pack. I travel that highway everyday and I keep looking for that pack.......



This whole wolf game is it getting old......

Im not sticking up for the ranchers. Ranchers that put cattle in wolf/grizzly areas are just walking into a trap and I don't think those animals should be paid for. Now cattle in the flatlands that get killed that's a different story.





Also why was the court hearing just now. Why couldn't it be months ago so something could be resolved for hunting season?
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-14 AT 10:19PM (MST)[p]I would gladly be the one to take the last wolf off the endangered list and put them on the extinct list. but Buzz is right, the predator zone was a bad idea that kicked the door open . it wasn't hard to see coming.

The wolf hippies are smart, to beat them you have to be smarter.

I will agree the judge probably had it decided before the case came. but it came on a silver platter.











Stay thirsty my friends
 
>jm 77,
>
>Actually, I thought the article was
>interesting because of the comments
>made by the readers. I
>also thought it showed some
>of the different perspectives held
>on the subject. Thick skin
>is not a problem for
>me. You were dismissive and
>acted like a jerk. Is
>that direct enough for you
>friend.

MM(mighty mouse)

You thought it interesting, I didn't. Guess I missed the part of this forum that doesn't allow opinions. I'm to assume then, that those that don't agree with you are all jerks?

I obviously did get under your thin skin cause you tainted this post by trying to slam me and not staying focused on the issue; wolf relisting.

And I don't know you, so don't call me friend. My friends don't call me a jerk and act like a child doing it....
 
>LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-14
>AT 10:19?PM (MST)
>
>I would gladly be the one
>to take the last wolf
>off the endangered list and
>put them on the extinct
>list. but Buzz is
>right, the predator zone was
>a bad idea that kicked
>the door open . it
>wasn't hard to see coming.
>
>
>The wolf hippies are smart, to
>beat them you have to
>be smarter.
>
>I will agree the judge probably
>had it decided before the
>case came. but it came
>on a silver platter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay thirsty my friends

Since you and Buzz are smarter, then I would assume you can read. Read the opinion the judge offered. It actually said that WY plan was ok except the technicality is stuck on wording around how many animals above the federal min would be maintained. It was a technicality that has absolutely nothing to do with the predator zone.

In fact the entire issue has nothing to do with trophy zone vs. predator zone. It is about wording that the judge failed to see as legally binding!

Good luck on being smarter anytime soon!
 
Obviously, you read the ruling.

It amazes me how much the media is misrepresenting this decision. It probably shouldn't surprise me but it appears intentional dishonesty.

I they accuse me of drinking the cool aide.

Thanks for your comment!
 
>In fact the entire issue has
>nothing to do with trophy
>zone vs. predator zone. It
>is about wording that the
>judge failed to see as
>legally binding!
>
>Good luck on being smarter anytime
>soon!

That's some funny schnitt right there...
 
Wyoming's governor should send a message to the feds and the wolf hippies and start eliminating wolves one pack at a time? Make up the laws (if needed) to kill them, play the same game as the feds. Make them beg for the predator zone to be reinstated!!

This is the Cowboy state it's probably going to happen anyways!! To many people have had enough of the feds jamming this stuff down our throat! So much for putting faith in the system! The line has been crossed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Hey isn't weed illegal by federal law? Are they not smoking away in Colorado, California and Washington?? I will stop smoking wolves when they stop smoking pot? Same thing if you ask me!!!
 
I say we take a few of the excess Wyoming wolves and transplant them to DC and then see how the "judge' likes it.
 
Can someone sum up what this is in a nutshell? (Dumb it down for me please).

Is WY being "stubborn" and is that causing the foothold these bunny huggers need?

Can wolves be hunted in WY this year????
 
>Can someone sum up what this
>is in a nutshell? (Dumb
>it down for me please).
>
Wyoming need better plan for wolf. Maybe gooder words, maybe change plan. Dumb enough for you?
>
>Is WY being "stubborn" and is
>that causing the foothold these
>bunny huggers need?
>
Depends on who you ask. I say yes on stubborn, no on helping bunny huggers.

>Can wolves be hunted in WY
>this year????

Not at the moment.
 
Ya zero calf recruitment is true... You will not hear one word about it from the wolf experts, it's being blamed on the bears, coyotes and golden eagles. The experts will also sell you on the cascade effect too... The rivers are straightening out, the willows in the Lamar valley are healthier than they have ever been, the grass is healthier than ever on and on... I do NOT take my children to Yellowstone to pet the grass like Buzz.... The reintroduction of wolves is the single biggest wildlife disaster of out time. Buzz H and his wolf hippie friends should be so proud of themselves...

I would hate to be a wolf in Wyoming right now....The Cowboy State is PISSED OFF!!!, even if the Governor or the Game and Fish does not have the balls to take care of the wolf problem, it's being taken care of quietly by the REAL people of Wyoming. The time for politics is over!!!!!!!
 
wolfhunter, I just spent a week in Wyoming and I think you're right. It's all over the news. I think a lot of people in Wyoming have just about had it. The eco-terrorists are thrilled of course, but pretty quiet.

Eel

Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded.
 
My brother and I spent 19 glorious days in Wyoming this Fall and all the locals, after the decision, said "well... we can't shoot wolves this year (wink)"
Yep, people are pizzed-off enough to be pro-active, I think.
Zeke
 
I just returned from a deer hunt in G. Even though there aren't a lot of wolves in G, this topic came up with some of the locals I was hunting with. I'm sure some wolves are going to hit the dirt this season.

Since its probably going to take years to undo what that Washington judge did, I think the State ought to enact some changes now.

Our legislature is headed back into session early next year. I think we need a law stripping all Wyoming legal authority from investigating, assisting with or even taking a phone call for anything relating to wolf kills while the "Feds are in charge of wolf management." It'd work something like this: someone see's a dead wolf that might involve a suspicious demise. Maybe its bleeding from a large hole in its side. Some do-gooder finds it and calls the G&F, or local Sheriff's office, etc., and sez I found a dead wolf. The gal who answers at the G&F sez thanks and hangs up.

That would leave a handful of Federal wildlife agents to patrol and handle the entire State of Wyoming.
 
WY SFW has petitioned our State Government to hold an evidentiary hearing to address our belief that the federal government is acting outside their proper authority.

Governor Mead, the Joint Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Committee (TRW) and State Leadership are looking into our request.
 
Last 2 posts...waste of time, money, and/or effort.

Wyoming is obligated to live with the deals they made with the G...
 
This Buzz guy reminds me of a kid that moved from Ogden Utah to the small town I grew up in back in the 1960's. The first day on the school bus he said "I'm sure glad we moved away from Ogden. All the kids there called me Buzzard Bait." One look at him and we decided that name was very appropriate, We dubbed him Buzzard Bait from that day forward, sometimes simply Buzz for short.

I think it is time for more extreme action on wolves. Every sportsman in every state should petition their congressmen to amend the endangered species act to specifically exclude wolves, that are not endangered in any way. Or, if they think wolves need to be returned to their former range, they should be returned to ALL of their former range, including California and all of the east coast.

The wild horse act also needs to be amended before feral horses destroy all of the range land in the west. Funny how the tree huggers claim they love nature so much and yet think it is great for feral horses to overpopulate and overgraze the entire west, and suck water holes dry so the native wildlife has no water to drink.
 
We already have seen...nearly 20 years after reintroduction and Wyoming is still losing court cases. Wyoming hunters are once again without a wolf season.

What more do you need to "see"?

Oh your idea is just fantastic...the federal courts have handed Wyoming their ass, and you think its outside their authority? Just a question, but what governing body, court, arbitration board, etc. Is going to determine and rule on whether or not the g over-stepped its authority?

This will be an excercise in futility...as a best case (pun intended).
 
Sorry BuzzH, but I believe that I am NOT a serf, obligated to do as instructed. Maybe it just is simply not in your DNA to question authority; however, it courses through my veins.

On October 20th, the Joint TRW Committee had an opportunity to learn more about the purpose of an evidentiary hearing.

Jay Jerde, from the Attorney Generals office, answered a lot of questions and indicated that Governor Mead would prefer to see a Congressional fix rather than considering any other move.

We were given time to address the Committee following lunch.

After quite a bit of questioning and explanation, the Joint TRW Committee voted 9 to 2, in favor of holding an evidentiary hearing. Apparently, they too, agree that Wyoming is not subject to the Crown, and they are willing to move forward. Perhaps they have read BuzzH's many posts articulating the failed attempt to add Wyoming into Idaho & Montana's Congressional fix.

Had anyone (Yes BuzzH, I am talking to you) bothered to attend the meeting, they would know the process and what we intend to do.

As MightyHunter posted below, several people are now stating that Wyomnig's wolves are neither threatened nor endangered. I happen to desire that my voice is heard. Anyone else that believes Wyoming's wolves are not threatened or endangered are encouraged to make your voices heard as well.

Those which desire to be serf's can continue to play their part, I will no longer play the role of serf.
 
Bob,

I guess your chapters that kicked you to the curb weren't serfs either, as they asked some questions too. You are good at asking questions, but not very good at answering them.

I understand you lashing out over this wolf issue, you and SFW have been an embarrassment to the State of Wyoming over it.

I will maintain that, IMO, the evidentiary hearing will be a waste of time and money. If there was anything to it, I don't believe that Enzi, over a year late to the party, would be asking for a Congressional solution. Again, IMO, that ship sailed when MT and ID made the correct decision to pursue it with the Simpson/Tester rider. Wyoming should have gotten on board, but didn't even make it to the dock. Trying that avenue again likely wont gain much traction. Theres a time and place where things like that work, Enzi is praying for a miracle, as a best case. Playing Rip Vanwinkle has consequences.

As to my not attending the meeting, I don't make them all, in particular when I feel time and efforts are not going to gain any worthwhile results.

Further, unlike you, I am not paid to attend any of the TRW, WYGF, MDI, Legislative stuff, etc. etc. like you are. I am not beholden to anyone, as I pay my own freight when I attend meetings. I'm not funded with expectations on issues like you are to DKP, RB, and UTSFW. Those funding your paycheck have expectations...and you make sure those expectations are met, no question of that.

I attend all I can, but come hunting season, I find it more important to be an active participant in hunting, wildlife, etc. than to make unproductive meetings.

Plus, as part of the Wyoming Sportsmans Alliance, I keep up to speed on all the issues, meetings, etc. The Alliance is gaining more traction all the time.

I get it Bob, you're trying to stay relevant to the very few WYSFW members you have left here. However, lashing out at me with your lame arguments isn't going to change the facts of the wolf issue, or that WYSFW is circling the ivory bowl...
 
http://gazette.com/gov.-mead-eyes-congressional-fix-on-wolf-delisting/article/feed/173622

A congressional fix? How on earth do you think Matt Mead will bring this to pass? Sometimes I think our governor is a dolt. There is too much money involved for most Democrats to get on board with this. I would appeal the decision of Judge Amy Berman and challenge her claim that jurisdiction and venue was proper in her court. It wasn't. If that issue is left without appeal, you can kiss goodbye any attempts to delist the grizzly bear anytime soon. The cases will be heard in D.C. and some liberal judge (maybe Jackson) will dream up a new technicality to eliminate delisting.

By the way, this grizzly bear was about a mile from my house last week. There are reported to be 5 grizzly bears wandering around Clark right now. I know, the bears only live in the mountains.

6584griz.jpg
 
"Bob,

I guess your chapters that kicked you to the curb weren't serfs either, as they asked some questions too. You are good at asking questions, but not very good at answering them.

I understand you lashing out over this wolf issue, you and SFW have been an embarrassment to the State of Wyoming over it.

I will maintain that, IMO, the evidentiary hearing will be a waste of time and money. If there was anything to it, I don't believe that Enzi, over a year late to the party, would be asking for a Congressional solution. Again, IMO, that ship sailed when MT and ID made the correct decision to pursue it with the Simpson/Tester rider. Wyoming should have gotten on board, but didn't even make it to the dock. Trying that avenue again likely wont gain much traction. Theres a time and place where things like that work, Enzi is praying for a miracle, as a best case. Playing Rip Vanwinkle has consequences.

As to my not attending the meeting, I don't make them all, in particular when I feel time and efforts are not going to gain any worthwhile results.

Further, unlike you, I am not paid to attend any of the TRW, WYGF, MDI, Legislative stuff, etc. etc. like you are. I am not beholden to anyone, as I pay my own freight when I attend meetings. I'm not funded with expectations on issues like you are to DKP, RB, and UTSFW. Those funding your paycheck have expectations...and you make sure those expectations are met, no question of that.

I attend all I can, but come hunting season, I find it more important to be an active participant in hunting, wildlife, etc. than to make unproductive meetings.

Plus, as part of the Wyoming Sportsmans Alliance, I keep up to speed on all the issues, meetings, etc. The Alliance is gaining more traction all the time.

I get it Bob, you're trying to stay relevant to the very few WYSFW members you have left here. However, lashing out at me with your lame arguments isn't going to change the facts of the wolf issue, or that WYSFW is circling the ivory bowl..."


How Very True BuzzH----

_________________________________________________________________


Good ole 'give us your money to fight the wolf' Wyo-$FW is so very happy and in joy over this ruling.

Simply more Ca$h Flow for Wyo-$fw and his sister BGF---

More Ca$h flow for your pathetic Charity Pay Check income...Bobby Boy.

Praise it to the Bank $$$ more Donations coming---Wyo-$FW/BGF....

Robb
 
PleaseDear,

How do you figure WY SFW is so very happy and in joy over this ruling?

It might send a tingle down your leg but it hasn't impressed me. In fact, I am tired of trying the same old route and that is why we are trying something different.

As Senator Delaine Roberts used to say all the time; we're sawing sawdust.

What is your solution?
 
>http://gazette.com/gov.-mead-eyes-congressional-fix-on-wolf-delisting/article/feed/173622
>
>A congressional fix? How on earth
>do you think Matt Mead
>will bring this to pass?
>Sometimes I think our governor
>is a dolt. There is
>too much money involved for
>most Democrats to get on
>board with this. I would
>appeal the decision of Judge
>Amy Berman and challenge her
>claim that jurisdiction and venue
>was proper in her court.
>It wasn't. If that issue
>is left without appeal, you
>can kiss goodbye any attempts
>to delist the grizzly bear
>anytime soon. The cases will
>be heard in D.C. and
>some liberal judge (maybe Jackson)
>will dream up a new
>technicality to eliminate delisting.
>
>By the way, this grizzly bear
>was about a mile from
>my house last week. There
>are reported to be 5
>grizzly bears wandering around Clark
>right now. I know, the
>bears only live in the
>mountains.
>
>
6584griz.jpg

>
And they just caught one by powell AGAIN. Down by eagle nest subdivision. they must of been looking for whitebark pines since the enviros think that is the only food source they live off of
 
We have to watch carefully every bill coming out of the new congress, I'm afraid many of the big ones will have public land sales and transfers tied to them.

Time to become vigilant and involved in politics. I know you're worried about wolves, but thats trivial compared to some things.
 
It isn't trivial to me. This nonsense with the wolf has gone on too long. With the eco-elites forum shopping western issues in D.C. Federal District Court, the time is now to let those judges and the eco-elites know they won't have the last word. Personally, I have no trust for any legislator be they Republican or Democrat. They will always sell the people out when it is in their best political interest to do so. Only a na?ve person believes one political party is better than another on any subject.

just sayin...mh
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-15 AT 05:01PM (MST)[p]True story, that's why it's high time to get involved a lot more. But I will stand by my comment about what's more important.

If I have to join the eco elites to keep our public land as it is, I will in a heartbeat
 
Just remember, in the end, the eco-elites don't want your footprints in there, let alone your rifle!
 
MH,

I concur with your lack of trust for politicians...between them and the livestock industry, they have hamstrung wolf management in Wyoming for too long.

BTW, Wyoming had ample opportunity, that they didn't take advantage of, to get on board and with the program through this whole wolf mess.

I feel no sympathy for anyone on this issue that allowed themselves to be handled by the livestock interests and legislature. Some of the delegation that played Marlboro man are still active participants in Cheyenne...sad.
 
Wolves don't need managed, they need shot. hunters and ranchers have the same objectives in wolf " managment " .

That said there is unfortunetly the political reality of the situation . in doing that hunters livestock producers are far better off working together against the Subaru driving, Birkenstock wearing wolf lover.

If you think anyone gives a FF about what hunters say about wolves you're delusional. landowners rights bring much to the table that public land recreational users can't. as a Cattlemen's Association member myself ( Oregon not WY ) I assure you we're on the same page.


















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Hunting wolves is management, last I checked.

Working together is a 2-way street, something livestock interests in Wyoming are very poor at understanding...
 
We could go on for days about this, technically you're right but as a hunter and cattleman I beg to differ. in my opinion, the native grey wolf should be managed after the invasive canadian wolf is eradicated.


But our opinions matter little in the big picture. that's something I've learned the hard way.

Whatever your beef with livestock producers you're better off with them than without them. granted not all producers are easy to work with but they've found being a nice guy gets them nowhere. until you've been in their shoes it's hard to understand sometimes.


Stay thirsty my friends
 
I disagree on the invasive Canadian wolf comment, you sound like Toby Bridges and have the same credibility with ignorant claims like that.

The rest, eh, cant disagree.

But, like I already stated, working together is a 2-way street. When I see a POS cattle rancher, that wants to change his operation to sheep for the sole purpose of (threatening)to kill off a wild herd of bighorns (one of the larger herds in Wyoming), I don't have much respect for the industry or those in it.

Hardly the efforts, or actions, of an industry willing to work together...

Actions matter.
 
Ignorant claims? maybe according to you and your hippie friends it's ignorant . do you argue the introduced wolves are not larger than the native wolves? not that you care you know everything, but others might be interested:

http://www.mt-sfw.org/gh/PhotoPage+Username=adminclient+ServiceName=WolfSpecies+Title=




If someone actually tried to harm a sheep herd as you claim I wouldn't defend them, but don't blame all producers for one being a douche.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Really? Using SFW as a valid source of anything to do with wolves?

Laffin'...

Study up 440...you'll find your answers.
 
Being a hunting forum I sometimes forget who's side you're on. you didn't answer, were the native wolves the same size as the planted Canadian wolves?

Read the last of this article, Dr Geist doesn't seem as positive as you are. but at this point it really doesn't matter , if you have driven the native wolf extinct with your plan then you'd say the Canadian wolf is the closest replacement. checkmate I guess , you win.

http://tomremington.com/2012/07/20/...hern-rockies-before-canadian-wolf-transplant/














Stay thirsty my friends
 
No they are not the same size. The wolves that were put back into Yellowstone were 8-10% larger than what existed prior. Now move on. You are fighting a stupid battle.
 
If this is a stupid battle then any effort to resist wolves is a stupid battle.

You have a better plan? beg the hippies for mercy once moose are on the ESA?

Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. T.R.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
>If this is a stupid
>battle then any effort to
>resist wolves is a stupid
>battle.
>
>You have a better plan?
>beg the hippies for mercy
>once moose are on
>the ESA?
>
>Do what you can, with what
>you have, where you are.
> T.R.
>
We finally agree! I do think resisting wolf re-introduction is a stupid battle at this point. Maybe prior to re-introduction it was smart but that ship has sailed.

I do believe I have a better plan. Get state management of wolves and start the process of management through hunting again. It works and will work. That is unless your view of working is 0 wolves. If that is the case with you then prepare to be disappointed.
 

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