Wyoming Task Force D/E/A on the ropes

[highfastflyer]

Looks like the Outfitters in the TF are putting up roadblocks and half truths to slow down or halt DEA for 90/10. 307 hunter has a good write up here and worth a read. I disagree with most of these agenda discussion items for the Sept 1 meeting.


Next Task Force Meeting
Currently scheduled for September 1 in Casper. The agenda isn't out yet, but the Taskforce Members asked the G&F to Explore/Answer These Questions for the September meeting, if possible:

1. Effect of a forced "Chose Your Weapon" requirement for limited quota elk tags. The idea here is that (1) possibly either more tags could be issues, and/or (2) hunting pressure could be spread out if hunters would have to chose either archery or rifle when they applied for a limited quota elk tag.
2. 3-Year waiting period after a successful Elk Type 1 Draw for resident hunters. So, if you had a successful Elk Type 1 draw, you would need to wait 3 years before applying for another Type 1 elk tag. Idea here is to give more resident hunters an opportunity to draw these coveted bull elk tags.
3. Nonresident-only tags for private lands
4. Reduce party permits from 6 to 2 on hard to draw limited quota areas.
5. Split white tailed deer for mule deer in all hunt areas for season, quota and license sale
6. Create nonresident hunter regions for general elk tags - similar to what is done now for deer
7. Create resident hunter regions for general deer and elk tags - so you could still purchase an Over-the-counter general elk or deer tag, but at purchase, would need to declare the region you planned to hunt. Idea here is to spread out hunting pressure.
8. Revisit 7,250 statutory limit on full price elk licenses issues to nonresidents. These full price licenses are a combination of general and limited quota. In 2019 nonresidents actually purchased over 13,000 elk tags - those above 7,250 were reduced price cow-calf tags.
9. How many leftover tags are drawn by resident hunters? We've also asked the G&F department for this information.
10. How many resident hunters purchase multiple tags each year, including two or more tags of one species (more than one elk tag, for example)
11. Presentation on the process, extent, benefits and drawbacks of Wyoming's Access Yes program..https://www.307hunter.com/articles/9010-for-the-big-5-headed-to-the-legistlature-9010-for-elk-deer-amp-antlelope-on-the-ropes-
    
    
    

 

[jims]

As I've been stating all along, if Wyo res want better odds for drawing high demand limited tags there are several options available that will dramatically improve their draw odds vs robbing a few limited tags from nonres with 90/10 which will have very little overall impact.

It sounds like the questions above are from the Task Force to the WG&F. Here are a list of most of the questions the Task Force is asking for comments for the Sept meeting:

The Taskforce will continue to discuss ways to improve the preference points system. What would you like the members to know?
Your answer




The Taskforce will be discussing how to increase resident hunter opportunities for elk, deer and antelope. What would you like the members to know?
Your answer




The Taskforce will be discussing landowner matters. What would you like the members to know?
Your answer




If you are a DIY, nonres hunter please continue to submit your comments to the task force.

If you don't want what happened in New Mexico to happen in Wyo be sure to submit comments in regard to set aside limited tags that are taken away from the public draw and offered to landowners/outfitters. In New Mexico they have both set aside tags that landowners receive PLUS outfitter only tags available in the draw.

In Colorado the landowners took tags directly out of the res/nonres pool of applicants and now they have their own pool of landowner tags. Limited tags were taken directly from BOTH Colo res and nonres and handed over to a landowner pool...so if you are a Wyo res I would make sure this doesn't happen in Wyo!

My vote goes for no set aside tags that are specifically for landowners or outfitters. I think it's great when all tags are available for residents and nonres in the drawing and those that draw tags can decide whether they want to hire an outfitter, gain access to private land, or hunt public land.

Colo has private land only tags available in the limited draw. I really think these are a great deal. These tags usually have significantly better draw odds and put less hunting pressure on public land. This may be a good deal for landowners and outfitters since they usually have great draw odds and every one has the opportunity to apply and draw these tags (not just hunters that hire outfitters).

 

[jims]

If you are a DIY nonres hunter I would be sure to submit comments for the next Task Force Meeting in Sept. Here are some of the questions the Task Force is asking for comments for:

The Taskforce will continue to discuss ways to improve the preference points system. What would you like the members to know?

The Taskforce will be discussing how to increase resident hunter opportunities for elk, deer and antelope. What would you like the members to know?

The Taskforce will be discussing landowner matters. What would you like the members to know?

Here's a few key notes you may want to consider:
1) Draw odds for Wyo res will only slightly improve if 1/2 the limited D/E/A tags are taken from nonres with 90/10. If Wyo res truly want to improve their odds for drawing high demand tags there are significantly better draw odds with only 1 to 3 year waiting periods after a hunter draws without all the headaches of taking 1/2 of the available limited tags from nonres.

2) I don't think Wyo wants to turn into New Mexico where a chunk of limited tags are available to landowners plus another set of limited tags were stripped from nonres and are now available only as outfitter tags. I think it's great that there are limited tags available in a draw for everyone and each hunter can decide if they want to hire a guide or hunt on their own.

3) Private Land Only tags are actually a pretty good deal. Here in Colo these tags are available to everyone in the draw that are only good to hunt private land. These tags usually have excellent draw odds so landowners and outfitters have better draw odds for family members and clients. Hunters that draw these tags also have the option to get permission and DIY hunt. It's also possible for the CPW to manage tags/big game on private land that ultimately places less hunting pressure on public land.

Here's the link to submit your comments:

Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce - Public Input

Submit comments for the Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce below. Public comment provided to the taskforce for consideration prior to each meeting can be found on the "Meeting Materials" page. Comments received by 5 p.m. MST on November 7, 2022 will be provided to the Taskforce for the November 18, 2022

sites.google.com

 

[BuzzH]

Sebastian...taking stupid to places it's never been.

 

[jims]

Buzz, cut to the chase! What answer do you have to Wyo res that will SIGNIFICANTLY improve their draw odds and OPPORTUNTY to draw and hunt limited high demand units?

How about you JM and SS....? You Wyo nonres bashers can sit back and trash every comment and option that is posted but what do you actually bring to the table? Lets get this post turned around and coordinate our effort for a strategy that will significantly improve draw odds for Wyo res.

 

[grizzly]

Buzz, your demeanor here is so vastly different than on HT

 

[Bookhead]

Why would they care what a non residents opinion is on improving RESIDENT opportunity?

 

[WapitiBob]

 

[jims]

So Bookhead you don’t believe it’s possible that nonres may have suggestions and viable options that may be a perfect fit for wyo residents?

 

[Bookhead]

So Bookhead you don’t believe it’s possible that nonres may have suggestions and viable options that may be a perfect fit for wyo residents?

No

 

[WapitiBob]

Dream Killer

 

[GeorgeE]

Their state, their rules, pretty simple Jims…

 

[jims]

That’s funny! Maybe I should ask around at the WG&F and see what they say?

 

[jims]

Since Wyo res don't anything to do with nonres should the Rocky Mtn Elk Foundation, Mule deer Foundation, and other agencies pull the plug on offering assistance and grants to Wyoming?

It's sad that Wyo res want to close and lock the door on the nonres that contribute so much to wildlife in their state.

Wyoming Access Program Opened Hunting to 2.6 Million Acres in 2020 | Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation

Below is a news release from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation provided 2020 funding that opened hunter access to …

www.rmef.org

RMEF Donation Provides 46,500 acres of Hunting, Fishing Access in Wyoming | Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation

Below is a news release from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. The Wyoming Game and Fish Department recently received a $15,000 donation to support …

www.rmef.org

ELK NETWORK WYOMING ACCESS PROGRAM OPENED HUNTING TO 2.6 MILLION ACRES IN 2020​

GENERAL | MARCH 9, 2021​

Below is a news release from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation provided 2020 funding that opened hunter access to 46,500 acres.
A Wyoming Game and Fish Department program that works with landowners to secure permission for the public to access private lands for hunting and fishing saw another year of success. In 2020, Access Yes opened access to more than 2.6 million acres of land for hunting as well as 4,005 lake acres and 87 stream miles for fishing on otherwise inaccessible private, state and landlocked public lands.
“Access to places to hunt and fish has never been more highly-valued than today,” said Rick King, chief of the Game and Fish’s wildlife division. “Maintaining and expanding access for hunting and fishing is a top priority for Game and Fish for recreation and to meet wildlife management objectives.”
Revenue for Access Yes comes from the sale of lifetime and annual conservation stamps, court-imposed restitution fees from individuals convicted of wildlife violations and Access Yes account interest. The program also benefits from donations from organizations and individual hunters and anglers — about 21% of the revenue is from donations. Combined, these sources generated $1.17 million for the program last year.
Access Yes coordinators collaborate with landowners to enroll them into one of the Game and Fish access programs: hunter management areas, walk-in hunting areas and/or walk-in fishing areas. Donations from hunters, anglers and conservation groups are used to make easement payments to landowners for hunting and fishing access.
“Thank you to landowners for their partnership to make these access opportunities possible,” King said. “We also extend our thanks to hunters and anglers for donating to Access Yes when buying a license and to our partners for their continued donations to support the program. Each dollar donated equates to 2.8 acres of access.”
To learn more about Access Yes lands open to hunting and fishing, read the 2020 report and visit the Game and Fish Public Access page. Anyone can donate to Access Yes when buying and applying for their 2021 license to continue to support opening more places to hunt and fish in Wyoming.
(Photo source: Wyoming Game and Fish Department)

 

[GeorgeE]

It's sad that Wyo res want to close and lock the door on the nonres that contribute so much to wildlife in their state.

https://www.rmef.org/elk-network/category/general/
View attachment 47031

How are they closing and locking the door?!? You’re a whole lot of special and not in a good way! They’re going to 90/10 like a whole bunch of other states out there and sill being pretty generous with random op’s…Get over yourself and move on!

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

Since Wyo res don't anything to do with nonres should the Rocky Mtn Elk Foundation, Mule deer Foundation, and other agencies pull the plug on offering assistance and grants to Wyoming? Ummm all those mentioned have chapters here there for the wildlife not the nonres!! ?‍

 

[jm77]

Buzz, cut to the chase! What answer do you have to Wyo res that will SIGNIFICANTLY improve their draw odds and OPPORTUNTY to draw and hunt limited high demand units?

How about you JM and SS....? You Wyo nonres bashers can sit back and trash every comment and option that is posted but what do you actually bring to the table? Lets get this post turned around and coordinate our effort for a strategy that will significantly improve draw odds for Wyo res.

Supporting 90/10 for the big five does not require a significant increase of opportunity for me to support it. It requires that those 10 to15% of the tags in the quota go to resident hunters. No gimmicks or new fangled ideas that could cause more harm than good in the long run. Rather, just a simple way to make a reasonable allocation change for those species.

I do take offense for you saying I am a nonresident basher and trasher. I have some great friends who are nonresidents and some right here on this forum. So, I have a desire for you to have me live rent free in your head like Buzz does. Please spend how ever many hours it takes you to find me bashing and trashing nonresidents on here. Who knows, you may find something to embarrass me with!

 

[BuzzH]

Since Wyo res don't anything to do with nonres should the Rocky Mtn Elk Foundation, Mule deer Foundation, and other agencies pull the plug on offering assistance and grants to Wyoming?

It's sad that Wyo res want to close and lock the door on the nonres that contribute so much to wildlife in their state.

Wyoming Access Program Opened Hunting to 2.6 Million Acres in 2020 | Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation

Below is a news release from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation provided 2020 funding that opened hunter access to …

www.rmef.org

RMEF Donation Provides 46,500 acres of Hunting, Fishing Access in Wyoming | Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation

Below is a news release from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. The Wyoming Game and Fish Department recently received a $15,000 donation to support …

www.rmef.org

ELK NETWORK WYOMING ACCESS PROGRAM OPENED HUNTING TO 2.6 MILLION ACRES IN 2020​

GENERAL | MARCH 9, 2021​

View attachment 47031
Below is a news release from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation provided 2020 funding that opened hunter access to 46,500 acres.
A Wyoming Game and Fish Department program that works with landowners to secure permission for the public to access private lands for hunting and fishing saw another year of success. In 2020, Access Yes opened access to more than 2.6 million acres of land for hunting as well as 4,005 lake acres and 87 stream miles for fishing on otherwise inaccessible private, state and landlocked public lands.
“Access to places to hunt and fish has never been more highly-valued than today,” said Rick King, chief of the Game and Fish’s wildlife division. “Maintaining and expanding access for hunting and fishing is a top priority for Game and Fish for recreation and to meet wildlife management objectives.”
Revenue for Access Yes comes from the sale of lifetime and annual conservation stamps, court-imposed restitution fees from individuals convicted of wildlife violations and Access Yes account interest. The program also benefits from donations from organizations and individual hunters and anglers — about 21% of the revenue is from donations. Combined, these sources generated $1.17 million for the program last year.
Access Yes coordinators collaborate with landowners to enroll them into one of the Game and Fish access programs: hunter management areas, walk-in hunting areas and/or walk-in fishing areas. Donations from hunters, anglers and conservation groups are used to make easement payments to landowners for hunting and fishing access.
“Thank you to landowners for their partnership to make these access opportunities possible,” King said. “We also extend our thanks to hunters and anglers for donating to Access Yes when buying a license and to our partners for their continued donations to support the program. Each dollar donated equates to 2.8 acres of access.”
To learn more about Access Yes lands open to hunting and fishing, read the 2020 report and visit the Game and Fish Public Access page. Anyone can donate to Access Yes when buying and applying for their 2021 license to continue to support opening more places to hunt and fish in Wyoming.
(Photo source: Wyoming Game and Fish Department)

Lets see Sebastian, I'm a resident, you're a non resident.

You claim NR's bring so much to the table, you must have a peach of a hand.

Well, I suppose I'm deranged, but, I guess I'll just have to call.

Isn't that a daisy?

 

[jims]

Buzz, another internet pat on your back. You’re the man!!!

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, another internet pat on your back. You’re the man!!!

That's an ugly thing to say.

Why Jim Sebastian, are we cross?

 

[jims]

So JM, are you willing to take advice from your nonres hunting buddies that might truly improve Wyo res opportunity for drawing high demand limited tags?

 

[jm77]

So JM, are you willing to take advice from your nonres hunting buddies that might truly improve Wyo res opportunity for drawing high demand limited tags?

Which buddy?

 

[GeorgeE]

Now he's (Jims) on the Bowsite preaching, 'do it for the kids'! Wyoming is going to take the youths chances away...

 

[BuzzH]

Now he's (Jims) on the Bowsite preaching, 'do it for the kids'! Wyoming is going to take the youths chances away...

It's pathetic to see a grown man using youth to get himself another tag.

I'm sure the only reason he applies his "son" is to use his son's points.

 

[SS!]

It's pathetic to see a grown man using youth to get himself another tag.

I'm sure the only reason he applies his "son" is to use his son's points.

OMG you’re telling me he has kids? World crashing down thinking there’s little Jims running around..

 

[jims]

GeorgeE, thanks for your post in regard to youth. I'll pass that same info along on this website!

Yep, I'm a proud father. My son and I have shared a lot of great hunts in Wyo over the years. In fact, his first big game animal was a giant pronghorn buck in Wyo!

I actually pulled my son out of the Wyo moose and sheep draws because I could see his odds of ever drawing those tags was fading with 90/10, wolves, grizz, etc. I also pulled him out of applying for Wyo elk pref pts this year because I saw the writing on the wall if 90/10 passes and I quite frankly can't afford it. Draw odds for elk are already horrible. That's $350 less $ the WG&F will have each year. I'm sure a lot of other nonres dads will do the same thing for sheep and moose....and D/E/A if 90/10 passes.

So Buzz, you don't care about nonres youth as well? 90/10 would definitely set back their dreams of drawing many of the tags. How many nonres dads are going to pull the plug on applying their kids in Wyo when it would cost $300/year to apply for sheep and moose pts plus another $114/year to apply for D/E/A and there is a good chance these prices will increase in the future. Over a 10 year period that's $4,114....just for 1 kid and no guarantee of any tags. To top it off, with 90/10 half of the tags will be taken from nonres so it will take 2x as long to draw the same tag.

Buzz, you likely lived your entire life in the Western US but how about those kids living in the Midwest or East that might have dreams about hunting big game species that they don't have available in their states? It's obvious from your posts you really don't care and want a handful more tags available to Wyo res...at any cost! You and I were fortunate to grow up in Western states with fantastic hunting opportunity. You may not care but we are slowly but surely losing hunting heritage in the Western US as we know it.....it will start and end with lack of nonres youth opportunity.

I can assure you nonres youth are the BIG LOSERS with 90/10.

For those nonres with kids be sure to continue to submit your comments to the Wyo Task Force website. Here's the link to submit comments: https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce/home/public-input

 

[BuzzH]

Stop paying $750 trespass fees to hunt pronghorn in Wyoming and buy tags for your son instead of yourself, you could easily afford to buy him points for all species.

That really isn't you though is it Sebastian?

There's more youth opportunity all across the country than there ever has been.

Enough with the "woe is me", your crying is all a bunch of BS, you care as much about youth as you do small businesses and the GF Department...which hovers some where around ZERO.

All you care about is YOUR next tag.

Don't expect a Father of the year Award.

Also, you better recheck your math on the point fees for NR youth, as per always, you don't know what you're talking about.

DEA points for NR youth are $10...not sure how you come up with $114? Probably from another of your spreadsheets.

If you're paying $114 for your "youth" to apply for points...you should kick him out of the basement and tell him to get a job.

 

[jm77]

GeorgeE, thanks for your post in regard to youth. I'll pass that same info along on this website!

Yep, I'm a proud father. My son and I have shared a lot of great hunts in Wyo over the years. In fact, his first big game animal was a giant pronghorn buck in Wyo!

I actually pulled my son out of the Wyo moose and sheep draws because I could see his odds of ever drawing those tags was fading with 90/10, wolves, grizz, etc. I also pulled him out of applying for Wyo elk pref pts this year because I saw the writing on the wall if 90/10 passes and I quite frankly can't afford it. Draw odds for elk are already horrible. That's $350 less $ the WG&F will have each year. I'm sure a lot of other nonres dads will do the same thing for sheep and moose....and D/E/A if 90/10 passes.

I'd pull myself out of the draw before I ever pulled my kids or grandkids out, especially elk. You could take your son elk hunting every year in Wyoming if you chose to do that, but you're obviously more concerned about taking yourself.

Tell me, did you sit him down and tell him "son, your odds are just too tough in moose and sheep, and they just might pass 90/10 for elk, so you are out, sorry." Wow!

Using your son to continue this charade of yours is about as pathetic as the attempt you made to discredit Randy Newberg.

 

[jims]

I've pulled the plug on both my son and I applying for sheep and moose. How many nonres fathers can afford $600/year to apply both them and their son's for pref pts? That's $6,000 over 10 years. In regard to the youth fees, my son is over the age limit for d/e/a so I pay the full fee. Believe me the $7 youth pref pt fee is nice but it only lasts a few years.

A Wyo res father and son only pay $28/year to apply for sheep and moose pts. That's $280 vs $6,000 over 10 years for res vs nonres. I'm sure a lot of nonres dads and sons are going to do the same thing and pull the plug.

Nonres fathers likely have quite a few more pref pts compared to their sons. Once they draw they will pull completely out of the Wyo game. What happens with the 77% of the license/pref pt revenue that nonres contribute directly to the WG&F?

JM, you are right. Like many, I live on a tight budget so I do what I can. Just because I don't pay pref pts for elk doesn't mean I don't apply my son for elk tags!

Buzz, there is no doubt about it nonres are the big losers with 90/10....and in particular nonres youth. Youth opportunity for nonres hunters across the US is what I'm concerned about. How many youth in the East and Midwest states will apply for tags in Western states in the years to come? Those nonres youth hunters that don't have particular big game species in their states are the big losers. How many moose, sheep, elk, mule deer, and antelope tags are available for youth to hunt in Iowa and Louisana?

To tell you the truth I could care less if I ever draw another big game tag in Wyoming. I really don't have that many more years left to hunt and likely won't draw many more tags. Why would I be beating the dead horse if I was just concerned about myself drawing a couple more tags in my lifetime? How many B&C antelope does a guy need? There are other states where I can have fantastic hunting and fishing opportunities every year.

I really think it's unfortunate that the opportunity could be sliced in 1/2 for nonres....especially youth hunters that dream of hunting elk or other species that aren't available in their particular states.

 

[WapitiBob]

Reality check

You didn't pay $6000 for sheep/moose points over the last 10 years, not even close. Unless you have about 20 points, your odds of drawing are the same as a guy with 0. Not being able to front the money is one thing, you don't need points to apply and odds for most aren't any better anyway.

NR opportunity isn't being "slice in half" either. Last I saw, you and your son could get 3 Elk, 6 Deer, and 6 Antelope tags under 90/10.

Not buying Elk points is just being cheap, they're $52, $124 for the trifecta.

 

[lostinOregon]

I have kids myself and they all have enjoyed hunting. I have a different opinion on youth opportunities. They don’t need a trophy tag and if you move them to the front of the line it makes them think that things are easy and you don’t have to earn things. I don’t think that youth should move to the front of the line. They should be taught the value of putting in your time and earning what they get. I liken it to everyone gets a trophy. You can see what that has taught our younger generations. There are winners and losers in life, not everything should be a gravy train for kids as it doesn’t prepare them for real life. Just my opinion, but we have lost the concept of not everyone gets a trophy and you earn things in life by working hard and putting in your time.

Rich

 

[MaineFlatlander]

At some point we have to declare the horse is dead. I’m a NR and have been super lucky. I’ve tagged moose and a sheep as welll as deer, elk, and antelope.
I have no issue with 90—10 but I’ve also take my sheep n moose. I have several good friends who live in Wyoming. I’m still hoping to be there in few short years.
NR draw way over the current “quota” for several animals but that is for one reason and one reason only. For what ever reason R are not listing those units as a second or third choice. R can also pay the same trespass fees to private property but don’t ??‍
Maybe these quota threads need to go away for a bit. My father who passed many years said it best. “No matter how thin the pancake it still has two sides”
Wyoming, thanks for 20+ years of memories. I can’t wait for December …. Because I’ll. E there with my 12 year old son for his first ever western hunt….cow elk.

 

[jims]

A nonres father and son applying for both sheep and moose will spend at least $6,000 on pref pt fees the next 10 years if those fees don’t go up. If they don’t want to add pref pt fees they can still appl

As I’ve been saying all along nonres limited tags will be sliced in 1/2 with 90/10. No getting around the fact that the premium limited nonres tags would be cut and it would take twice as long to draw these high demand tags.

As you mentioned for sheep it likely isn’t worth paying $52 for nonres elk pts if tags are cut in 1/2 and it will be nearly impossible for youth to catch up on pts to draw tags in the pref pt pool.

The task force may want to watch their step because the WGF stands to loose a lot of revenue if nonres quit buying pts and just apply for random tags. If nonres tags are cut and pt creep explodes this will likely happen.

 

[hossblur]

I have kids myself and they all have enjoyed hunting. I have a different opinion on youth opportunities. They don’t need a trophy tag and if you move them to the front of the line it makes them think that things are easy and you don’t have to earn things. I don’t think that youth should move to the front of the line. They should be taught the value of putting in your time and earning what they get. I liken it to everyone gets a trophy. You can see what that has taught our younger generations. There are winners and losers in life, not everything should be a gravy train for kids as it doesn’t prepare them for real life. Just my opinion, but we have lost the concept of not everyone gets a trophy and you earn things in life by working hard and putting in your time.

Rich

Ummm, to roughly quote Buzz friend, Randy Newberg, point schemes were created by grey hairs to benefit grey hairs.

It's always fun to listen to guys who set up the point system, which benefits them, try to equate it to "everyone gets a trophy"

When these schemes were created, it was discussed, that it does in fact discriminate against the youth or adult onset hunters. We have schemes, so apparently the grey beards wanted their "trophy".

The "need" for trophy tags isn't ain't greater for old guys than for young ones. The difference is the young guys don't sit on committees, they don't write checks.

It is disengenuous to try to claim we've "created more youth opportunity than ever", while sitting at the top of the hill on points, simply because you were born earlier.

Further, this "opportunity" that was created was done using tags, sex, and species that were afterthoughts to the older guys.

You didn't need youth opportunity until a system was created by older guys, which severely limited their opportunity to begin with.

I'm not sure Jim is worried about youth in this 90/10 argument, but then neither is anyone else claiming "youth opportunity".

Points were created by older guys who bitched about possibly not drawing premium or OIL tags via random luck in a random draw, period. Now those same guys try to pretend it's the "trophy for everyone" generation that is the issue?

 

[jims]

In lean years like this year there are hardly any of those 2nd draw and doe tags available. In good years everyone is happy.

There are major large scale wildlife habitat improvement projects currently taking place in several wyo counties that ought to increase big game populations in the near future. Healthy habitat often means more animals which translates to more res and nonres tags. Ultimately I think we all can agree that’s what we all want.

 

[LIK2HNT]

So what will be the estimates NR cost increase to antelope doe and cow elk tags once this is implemented?
Wyoming has been a great state to start kids hunting with antelope tags. I think they use to be like $32. Been about 10 years since we did this and it was a blast.

 

[jims]

Hossblur great post! It’s really tough to please everyone with any draw system…including a random draw. That’s exactly what Wyo’s task force is up against.

Wyo res biggest complaint is not the lack of opportunity but the ability to draw more high demand limited tags. Something will likely need to change for residents if they truly want this to happen.

One way to do this is to have more big game in the hills with habitat improvements, predator control, etc

The 2nd way is to increase or create new tags. A great example is private land only tags. Pick your weapon tags is another. Only adding a few type 1 tags to quotas isn’t going to improve draw odds for the majority of res applicants (90/10).

The third way is to have a bonus or pref pt system in place that provides those that apply more years a better chance to draw. It’s also possible to split tags into random and bonus/pref pt pools similar to what exists for nonres.

A 4th way is waiting period. In a state like wyo where there aren’t that many res there is a high turner over or proportion of applicants that draw tags. Those that draw tags have to wait out time before they can apply. Just having a 1 year wait significantly improves draw odds for some tags.

it certainly seems like most wyo res have been super spoiled over the years and arent willing to sacrifice anything for the ability to draw high demand premium tags. I guess it’s up to them to decide if they want this bad enough? I can guarantee that 90/10 isn’t going to do squat in the long run.

 

[Bucknut]

I’ve been following these threads for quite sometime, and have refrained from replying due to the nausea induced by Jims comments. WY has no need (nor desire, from my resident perspective) to become the next Utah, etc. with waiting periods, choose your weapon, etc. I understand being concerned and disgruntled from a NR perspective, but dang the entitlement mentality and fear mongering reminds me of the protests we watched going on around the country a while back… alright, I’ll get off my soap box…

Honestly, as a resident, I would like to see 90/10 DEA …. AND…. (To learn from Oregon’s mistake) create a “premium tag” (type-x) that is part of the regular draw. (Designate 1 tag for each unit, any weapon, dates Aug 15 - Nov 30 or something)…. This would (in theory) pull a significant number of applicants out of the type 1&2 tag pools. It seems like there are a significant number of applicants that don’t mind waiting for years (or put their wives, etc. in for some of the best tags in the state)…. Just a complete guess, but I imagine with 9/10 and type-x system, resident odds would significantly increase across the board.

 

[jm77]

So what will be the estimates NR cost increase to antelope doe and cow elk tags once this is implemented?
Wyoming has been a great state to start kids hunting with antelope tags. I think they use to be like $32. Been about 10 years since we did this and it was a blast.

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I'd be curious to know what the threshold would be for you on doe/fawn-cow/calf tags with a fee increase? For you? For the kids?
Looks like they had a great time!

 

[SS!]

I’ve been following these threads for quite sometime, and have refrained from replying due to the nausea induced by Jims comments. WY has no need (nor desire, from my resident perspective) to become the next Utah, etc. with waiting periods, choose your weapon, etc. I understand being concerned and disgruntled from a NR perspective, but dang the entitlement mentality and fear mongering reminds me of the protests we watched going on around the country a while back… alright, I’ll get off my soap box…

Honestly, as a resident, I would like to see 90/10 DEA …. AND…. (To learn from Oregon’s mistake) create a “premium tag” (type-x) that is part of the regular draw. (Designate 1 tag for each unit, any weapon, dates Aug 15 - Nov 30 or something)…. This would (in theory) pull a significant number of applicants out of the type 1&2 tag pools. It seems like there are a significant number of applicants that don’t mind waiting for years (or put their wives, etc. in for some of the best tags in the state)…. Just a complete guess, but I imagine with 9/10 and type-x system, resident odds would significantly increase across the board.

Great perspective! Thanks for sharing!

 

[hossblur]

So what will be the estimates NR cost increase to antelope doe and cow elk tags once this is implemented?
Wyoming has been a great state to start kids hunting with antelope tags. I think they use to be like $32. Been about 10 years since we did this and it was a blast.

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You are doing it right!!!

 

[hossblur]

Hossblur great post! It’s really tough to please everyone with any draw system…including a random draw. That’s exactly what Wyo’s task force is up against.

Wyo res biggest complaint is not the lack of opportunity but the ability to draw more high demand limited tags. Something will likely need to change for residents if they truly want this to happen.

One way to do this is to have more big game in the hills with habitat improvements, predator control, etc

The 2nd way is to increase or create new tags. A great example is private land only tags. Pick your weapon tags is another. Only adding a few type 1 tags to quotas isn’t going to improve draw odds for the majority of res applicants (90/10).

The third way is to have a bonus or pref pt system in place that provides those that apply more years a better chance to draw. It’s also possible to split tags into random and bonus/pref pt pools similar to what exists for nonres.

A 4th way is waiting period. In a state like wyo where there aren’t that many res there is a high turner over or proportion of applicants that draw tags. Those that draw tags have to wait out time before they can apply. Just having a 1 year wait significantly improves draw odds for some tags.

it certainly seems like most wyo res have been super spoiled over the years and arent willing to sacrifice anything for the ability to draw high demand premium tags. I guess it’s up to them to decide if they want this bad enough? I can guarantee that 90/10 isn’t going to do squat in the long run.

It's their animals, I'm a guest there so I get that.

But Wyoming is where Utah was in the 90's.

They should be doing anything possible to not create scenarios where G&F is short funded and starts needing to chase $$$ via auction tags, special interest groups, or outfitter handouts.

Cutting NR, creates funding shortfalls. Good biology cost $$$, and the R will not make up the difference lost.

Guys like Buzz think they have it under control. We did too. Then Karl Malone offered $100,000 to kill an AI deer, and that control, went to the backrooms of Capitol hill, not the meeting rooms of G&F.

I don't doubt Buzz sincerity. Nor his effort. But a FS salary, doesn't match the salaries of guys who lobby in those backrooms.

We had it handled too, until we didn't. NR is far from our worst issue. The same will be true for them

 

[SS!]

Jims and hossbur could star in a dumb and dumber reboot. It just wouldn’t be funny.

 

[lostinOregon]

Ummm, to roughly quote Buzz friend, Randy Newberg, point schemes were created by grey hairs to benefit grey hairs.

It's always fun to listen to guys who set up the point system, which benefits them, try to equate it to "everyone gets a trophy"

When these schemes were created, it was discussed, that it does in fact discriminate against the youth or adult onset hunters. We have schemes, so apparently the grey beards wanted their "trophy".

The "need" for trophy tags isn't ain't greater for old guys than for young ones. The difference is the young guys don't sit on committees, they don't write checks.

It is disengenuous to try to claim we've "created more youth opportunity than ever", while sitting at the top of the hill on points, simply because you were born earlier.

Further, this "opportunity" that was created was done using tags, sex, and species that were afterthoughts to the older guys.

You didn't need youth opportunity until a system was created by older guys, which severely limited their opportunity to begin with.

I'm not sure Jim is worried about youth in this 90/10 argument, but then neither is anyone else claiming "youth opportunity".

Points were created by older guys who bitched about possibly not drawing premium or OIL tags via random luck in a random draw, period. Now those same guys try to pretend it's the "trophy for everyone" generation that is the issue?

Point systems were created by the fish and game divisions as a revenue source. If all you had to do is ***** and moan to make something happen the fish and game division would be changing the systems and regulations every year. Everyone agrees that mule deer are in decline and ***** about it, but here were are again with unlimited region hunting.

Rich

 

[LIK2HNT]

I'd be curious to know what the threshold would be for you on doe/fawn-cow/calf tags with a fee increase? For you? For the kids?
Looks like they had a great time!

I feel those tags for does were/are dirt cheap. Have to see what they raise them to as to whether or not I feel the same. If to much we will not get them and go another route.
I really feel ALL states can and should charge their resident hunters more. To help support wildlife projects. They get to hunt all year, but that is my opinion.

 

[SS!]

I feel those tags for does were/are dirt cheap. Have to see what they raise them to as to whether or not I feel the same. If to much we will not get them and go another route.
I really feel ALL states can and should charge their resident hunters more. To help support wildlife projects. They get to hunt all year, but that is my opinion.

I agree! My sheep and goat tag came in the mail last week and I just printed off my moose and caribou tag for this fall. Grand total cost to me? 0 dollars. There was a 5 dollar app fee for the sheep and goat tho..

 

[BuzzH]

A nonres father and son applying for both sheep and moose will spend at least $6,000 on pref pt fees the next 10 years if those fees don’t go up. If they don’t want to add pref pt fees they can still appl

As I’ve been saying all along nonres limited tags will be sliced in 1/2 with 90/10. No getting around the fact that the premium limited nonres tags would be cut and it would take twice as long to draw these high demand tags.

As you mentioned for sheep it likely isn’t worth paying $52 for nonres elk pts if tags are cut in 1/2 and it will be nearly impossible for youth to catch up on pts to draw tags in the pref pt pool.

The task force may want to watch their step because the WGF stands to loose a lot of revenue if nonres quit buying pts and just apply for random tags. If nonres tags are cut and pt creep explodes this will likely happen.

What a load of crap.

Good, don't apply and buy points if it isn't worth it, many Non Residents will continue to put themselves AND kids in for tags.

I buy NR licenses, tags, and points for my nephews and have been since they were old enough to hunt.

Like Jeff said, I'd keep myself out of the draw before them...all...day...long.

What a cheapskate, go shovel the neighbors sidewalk and you can buy your adult son an elk point.

 

[PLK]

You guys should just agree to disagree.

The outfitters are saying that a non-resident elk tag should be $2,000. I just don’t understand why the NR tags need to be so much more expensive than the resident tags. Pretty tough pill for a non-resident to swallow; reduce the amount of premium tags and then potentially increase the price.

I have recently became a Wyoming resident and therefore I guess I should be totally in favor of 90/10. I just can’t understand why a NR elk tag should be 10 to 20 times more expensive than a resident bull tag; why a NR Sheep tag should be 10 times more expensive than a resident sheep tag, and so on for other species. I’m all for more resident opportunities but I’m not asking the non-residents to pay my way. I know I‘m in the minority with this thought process.

Buzz,
Based upon your previous posts, your financial situation is certainly considerably different than most on here (you talk about leaving 7 figure bank accounts to your nephews); I wouldn’t expect you to have a problem buying licenses, tags and points for them. A lot of the local folks that I know are concerned about any increase to resident prices as they are already struggling to make ends meet with the rising housing costs, gasoline prices and other inflationary pressures. I don’t have a crystal ball and have no idea what the overall effects will be due to 90/10 and possible preference point revenue decline.

You guys talk about NR hunters like they are the enemy; you consistently say that if you don’t like Wyoming’s system and fees don’t apply. But on the other hand, you don’t think there will be any loss of NR license or preference point revenue. If these NRs take your advice, revenue will most certainly decline.

Hopefully a compromise can be reached that is equitable (purposely avoided the word fair) to as many parties as possible. I have some good friends that are outfitters and I’m sure most of them will somehow adapt to whatever change comes their way; however some will probably not survive a major reduction in NR licenses.

I’ve been in favor of OIL for the big 5 for several years now; perhaps the legislature will make it retroactive to some previous date and eliminate a bunch of folks that have already enjoyed the privilege of hunting these high demand/low supply animals.

I look forward to some additional positive dialogue concerning these issues. We as hunters (both resident and nonresident) need to stick together in an attempt to improve, conserve and protect hunting opportunities not just in Wyoming but across the world.

 

[grosventrehunter]

You guys should just agree to disagree.

The outfitters are saying that a non-resident elk tag should be $2,000. I just don’t understand why the NR tags need to be so much more expensive than the resident tags. Pretty tough pill for a non-resident to swallow; reduce the amount of premium tags and then potentially increase the price.

I have recently became a Wyoming resident and therefore I guess I should be totally in favor of 90/10. I just can’t understand why a NR elk tag should be 10 to 20 times more expensive than a resident bull tag; why a NR Sheep tag should be 10 times more expensive than a resident sheep tag, and so on for other species. I’m all for more resident opportunities but I’m not asking the non-residents to pay my way. I know I‘m in the minority with this thought process.

Buzz,
Based upon your previous posts, your financial situation is certainly considerably different than most on here (you talk about leaving 7 figure bank accounts to your nephews); I wouldn’t expect you to have a problem buying licenses, tags and points for them. A lot of the local folks that I know are concerned about any increase to resident prices as they are already struggling to make ends meet with the rising housing costs, gasoline prices and other inflationary pressures. I don’t have a crystal ball and have no idea what the overall effects will be due to 90/10 and possible preference point revenue decline.

You guys talk about NR hunters like they are the enemy; you consistently say that if you don’t like Wyoming’s system and fees don’t apply. But on the other hand, you don’t think there will be any loss of NR license or preference point revenue. If these NRs take your advice, revenue will most certainly decline.

Hopefully a compromise can be reached that is equitable (purposely avoided the word fair) to as many parties as possible. I have some good friends that are outfitters and I’m sure most of them will somehow adapt to whatever change comes their way; however some will probably not survive a major reduction in NR licenses.

I’ve been in favor of OIL for the big 5 for several years now; perhaps the legislature will make it retroactive to some previous date and eliminate a bunch of folks that have already enjoyed the privilege of hunting these high demand/low supply animals.

I look forward to some additional positive dialogue concerning these issues. We as hunters (both resident and nonresident) need to stick together in an attempt to improve, conserve and protect hunting opportunities not just in Wyoming but across the world.

And this is what happens when they move in.....

 

[lostinOregon]

So how long do you have to live in Wyoming for your opinion to count? It’s been funny to watch over the years on MM. Wyoming is the only state that the residents get fired up if a NR gives some advice or information on. It’s always wrong and only a resident knows. Now it appears that you have to be a resident for so many years before your opinion counts.

Rich

 

[WapitiBob]

If it's like Californians and OR, it'll be a while.

 

[grosventrehunter]

So how long do you have to live in Wyoming for your opinion to count? It’s been funny to watch over the years on MM. Wyoming is the only state that the residents get fired up if a NR gives some advice or information on. It’s always wrong and only a resident knows. Now it appears that you have to be a resident for so many years before your opinion counts.

Rich

Ask Idaho residents then get back with us.....I think long enough to put Wyoming first and not the state they came from. It takes some longer than others.

 

[jm77]

Wyoming is the only state that the residents get fired up if a NR gives some advice or information on. It’s always wrong and only a resident knows.

Rich

Please show me the evidence that backs this up.

You see, from my point of view, Wyoming is the only state that some nonresidents think they should have a say in how we do things. When residents respond back, we are now bashing and trashing the NR.

Opinions are like you know what; everyone has one. My opinion is that premium tags like the big five should be allocated with a 90/10 allocation. And that's more than fair.

 

[lostinOregon]

I am not going to dig through the archives for the posts, but they are there. The one I quoted basically says that even residents shouldn’t even count if they just moved there. Never whined or complained once about 90/10. Just have sympathy for hunters who invested for a future hunt that they might not ever see. It’s called compassion. Wyoming residents can do anything they want, it’s the attitude of some that I think is keeping this going. Us versus them. When can we talk about how to protect the mule deer in WY. Even if I have less chances to hunt them in the future I am still concerned about overall numbers and herd health.

Rich

 

[SS!]

I am not going to dig through the archives for the posts, but they are there. The one I quoted basically says that even residents shouldn’t even count if they just moved there. Never whined or complained once about 90/10. Just have sympathy for hunters who invested for a future hunt that they might not ever see. It’s called compassion. Wyoming residents can do anything they want, it’s the attitude of some that I think is keeping this going. Us versus them. When can we talk about how to protect the mule deer in WY. Even if I have less chances to hunt them in the future I am still concerned about overall numbers and herd health.

Rich

Look at all the other threads on state wildlife issues. With the exception of CO you don’t see the influx of non resident comments. And generally it’s comments and opinions that want to take away from WY residents. WTF. Show me one thread where someone from WY wants to take away from another states resident allocation. Just one. I can show you numerous threads where NR want to limit residents in G and H. WTF. It’s not about the mule deer and protecting them. It’s jealousy and not minding ones own business.

If it hurts you that there’s us VS them with hunters vs hunters I suggest you log out and never view a hunting forum again. It’s unrealistic and down right disturbing if you think hunters should always be in agreement with each other.

 

[lostinOregon]

Far from jealous SS, here come the personal attacks again. The posts I am talking about have nothing to do with 90/10 or other states tag allocations. Its when someone gives advice on a hunt unit on this site for Wyoming, their a few WY goes that make comments about the NR giving advice.

Never said that everyone had to be on the same page, what I meant Is that I would rather focus on mule deer herd health, that's all. You just proved my point SS, with taking what I said, spinning it and called my thoughts "disturbing".

Rich

 

[grizzly]

Has anybody else noticed the wire puller from Anchorage sure has a lot of opinions on Wyoming wildlife management for somebody that says only people that live in Wyoming should have an opinion on Wyoming wildlife management?

 

[jm77]

Has anybody else noticed the wire puller from Anchorage sure has a lot of opinions on Wyoming wildlife management for somebody that says only people that live in Wyoming should have an opinion on Wyoming wildlife management?

 

[SS!]

Has anybody else noticed the wire puller from Anchorage sure has a lot of opinions on Wyoming wildlife management for somebody that says only people that live in Wyoming should have an opinion on Wyoming wildlife management?

I have a vested interest there as my parents still live there and lots of friends too. I enjoy going back and hunting with them. My opinion is in favor of the residents. Can you not see the difference?

Have you noticed how I don’t ***** and moan about Wyoming like all the other NR? I’m not greedy and attempt to see both sides of the issue. 90/10 would suck for me for D/E/A but Im not going to cry about it because it’s only fair for residents. Residents first, always. I don’t care the state.

Like I’ve mentioned before if any of you feel wronged by WY and want to get a moose contact me and I’ll help you plan a DIY moose hunt likely for cheaper than 30 years of buying points at 150 a pop. I’m also working on becoming a master guide so If you want a sheep here soon I’ll give you that option too. Then you can pay me to listen to you cry all the way to the sheep about how big bad WY screwed you over.

@grizzly I wish I was a wire puller. Those days are long in the past. Life was simpler back then. Money complicates things. Like the decision, africa next year or snow sheep? I’m leaning towards Africa…

 

[jims]

SS plain and simple you are a wyo nonres!

I must have “vested interest in wyo as well since I spent almost the first 25 years of my life growing up there, graduated from the U of Wyo and have wyo res hunting buddies?

SS you aren’t even a wyo res so your posts must not mean squat no matter which side you are on?

 

[SS!]

Far from jealous SS, here come the personal attacks again. The posts I am talking about have nothing to do with 90/10 or other states tag allocations. Its when someone gives advice on a hunt unit on this site for Wyoming, their a few WY goes that make comments about the NR giving advice.

Never said that everyone had to be on the same page, what I meant Is that I would rather focus on mule deer herd health, that's all. You just proved my point SS, with taking what I said, spinning it and called my thoughts "disturbing".

Rich

Sorry not a personal attack. I apologize. Can you please share just one example of someone from Wyoming criticizing someone for giving advice? I’ve never seen that. And I’m bored and read most WY threads. Also I assumed you were talking allocations based on you know…this is an allocation thread.


Im out in looking for sheep so I just been reading old threads. I don’t see anyone attacking anyone for giving advice. Please share. Cuz I agree that’s messed up…

There’s sheep somewhere in these clouds haha

 

[SS!]

SS plain and simple you are a wyo nonres!

I must have “vested interest in wyo as well since I spent almost the first 25 years of my life growing up there, graduated from the U of Wyo and have wyo res hunting buddies?

SS you aren’t even a wyo res so your posts must not mean squat no matter which side you are on?

Jim you have no Wyoming friends don’t lie. But I will agree with you for the first time in my life. My opinion means squat. Just like yours. Take 5 and let that soak in…

 

[GeorgeE]

SS plain and simple you are a wyo nonres!

I’m pretty sure he said that…?

 

[hossblur]

Please show me the evidence that backs this up.

You see, from my point of view, Wyoming is the only state that some nonresidents think they should have a say in how we do things. When residents respond back, we are now bashing and trashing the NR.

Opinions are like you know what; everyone has one. My opinion is that premium tags like the big five should be allocated with a 90/10 allocation. And that's more than fair.

Ever heard of $fw? Utah has an entire lobby group dedicated to facilitating NR. In fact, we sponsor a yearly party for them

 

[lostinOregon]

Sorry not a personal attack. I apologize. Can you please share just one example of someone from Wyoming criticizing someone for giving advice? I’ve never seen that. And I’m bored and read most WY threads. Also I assumed you were talking allocations based on you know…this is an allocation thread.


Im out in looking for sheep so I just been reading old threads. I don’t see anyone attacking anyone for giving advice. Please share. Cuz I agree that’s messed up…

There’s sheep somewhere in these clouds hahaView attachment 47252

Now I am jealous. I will send a PM when I get some time. Keep posted pics.

Rich