Wyoming general deer tags

[juliusvatalaro]

If Wyoming changed to draw only for deer statewide what would we see in herd numbers as well as buck to doe ratio's? Especially on the Wyoming Range. Most western states make the residents draw for all of there tags. I personally feel we as residents have had it pretty easy for a long time. I know we have to draw for antelope and we have tons of them. Just a thought for discussion. Most residents are not willing to give in even if it meant better hunting and less pressure on the deer. I know in the Grey's and Salt river ranges there is an enormous amount of pressure on these deer from residents. If we as residents were allowed to hunt our favorite areas every other year that would take a great deal of pressure off of the deer. I know it won't happen soon but it could someday.

Just my two cents.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-11 AT 10:23AM (MST)[p]It's nice to see a post where the nonresidents aren't being blamed for the hunting pressure or deer problems! I think Wyoming G&F needs to do exactly what you are mentioning and go to limited quota units for residents in a number of areas that are now on their general tag. Everything I read on various websites concerning the area you are talking about is that it is getting way too much pressure from resident hunters. Added to that is the fact that with the varying openers a resident can do a lot of moving around from unit to unit and just keep following the openers. I think they should either open everything the same day or start making a bunch of the units limited quota and maybe even both for a few years!

 

[juliusvatalaro]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-11 AT 02:17PM (MST)[p]Topgun, I am not a big fan of limited quotas. With that said I feel there are other ways to limit pressure from residents without going to a true limited quota. I am just being honest about this. I can start hunting mule deer Sept. 1st with my bow then come Sept. 15th I get my rifle out and hunt till Sept 30th. Next I can go two hours to the south and hunt till Oct. 14th. We "all" need to give something up to improve the Wyoming Range. And I am willing to hunt every other year as opposed to hunting once every 5 or ten years. That simple example would reduce pressure by residents by 50% I do not see it happening in the near future.

Julius

 

[PleaseDear]

Maybe have it Unit specific----

Like 1 unit out of 'H' and 1 unit out of 'G' and 1/'E' and so forth.

Still a General tag for residents but plenty of units offered thru out the many Regions.

So you could pick your 1 unit from each Region--put it in and get your General tag and still have it being OTC for a resident.

Ya know 1 unit from every region would be okay.
As a resident you could hunt all over and anywhere basically but this would help control the Opening Day assault...like the example you have given.

I am not far off from becoming a Wyoming resident anyways.

Robb

 

[TOPGUN]

Julius---You asked and I stated my opinion. It doesn't appear that you want to give much, if anything, up if you are hunting all over like you mentioned and can't give at least one of those seasons or hunts up! If everybody keeps taking that stance it will stay the same mess it is right now that you aren't too happy with! Just sayin!!!

 

[G14]

In my opinion,the WY Game and Fish being a self funded agency is what is killing any kind of management. By "self funded" I mean the revenue from hunting and fishing licenses provide the WY G&F budget.

The discrepancy between the prices of licenses is also hurting proper management of each species. The WY G&F is going to provide more hunting opportunities for elk, because of money. To provide more opportunities they are going to provide better management. My solution is make the cost of deer and elk licenses the same. An example of how this would work:

2011 Resident
Elk = $57 Deer = $43 Total = $100 or $50/license

2011 Non Residents (non-special):
Elk = $591 Deer = $326 Total = $917 or $458.50/license

This way the playing field is even for both species, and funding has not changed. We could call it Big Game Socialism. lol

 

[juliusvatalaro]

To the contrary, I am willing to give it all up every other year. But with a limited quota, as time goes on your chances of drawing that tag gets farther and farther away. For example; I used to hunt in a primo unit in Colorado. I could drive over there and buy the tag over the counter and kill huge buck year after year if I was lucky. Then it went to a draw only. It took me 3 years to get that same tag and hunt the same season. Now it takes 10 years to draw that same tag, and in 10 more years it might take 20 years to draw. That is not what I want in the Wyoming Range.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-11 AT 05:35PM (MST)[p]Julius---Sorry, I read your post too fast and didn't realize you would completely skip ALL hunting every other year. I don't know that I could go that far, since I'm probably in my last 10-15 years out in the field if I'm lucky and stay in good health!!!

G14---As a nonresident who no longer hunts elk, but does go mulie hunting every year, I obviously don't care for that plan one bit!!! I do, however, think the reason you mentioned about poor game management is pretty much on target. I believe the G&F has to spend (waste)too much of our license money on friggin bear and wolf management along with a bunch of other projects like introducing ferrets and all that other kind of stuff that sap all the money that could be used for game animal management. IMHO, since they are mandated to do all of that other stuff, they should be partially funded by the general public through the general fund and/or from fees to bike, hike, etc. It is about time that hunters and fishermen cease having to fund all the other stuff that we do that is not related to our recreational sports.

 

[juliusvatalaro]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-11 AT 06:52PM (MST)[p]Hey Topgun I put an article on my post of "Founder Please Help" on the General Hunting Forum. The article discusses why Wyoming's plan was thrown out. I must of missed it reading Buzzh's facts sheet. It is a ways down on the list of members.

Julius

 

[bucklover]

I know everyone wants a quality hunt, but I think we have to remind ourselves that the main reason we are out there is because we love it. We love the experience, we love spending time with family and friends, we love buying all the toys that go along with it. If we start limiting the time we can spend, then many people (young beginner hunters included) will just stop hunting all together. Revenue lost to the state, and like it or not fewer people involved in fighting for what we all love to do. Those that are upset at the number of hunters afield, have forgotten how much public land there really is out there. It doesn't take very long to walk far enough away from the roads to really trim down the numbers you have to compete with. There are other methods of improving the deer herd and still let everyone who wants to, enjoy the hunt. The more limited areas we have, the more crowded the general areas become. Something that seems to be improving things around my area is having walk in areas, where no motorized vehicles are allowed. Designating only certain roads for access and closing off all the little side roads would make a huge difference. Encouraging more control burns to improve habitat. Old burns are a magnet for deer and elk. Allowing a person to hunt with any legal weapon they want, every year, until they kill an animal, then they have to wait a year, may be an option. That way you can hunt every year, until you find the "one" that's worth it. Making people choose a particular portion of the state would at least keep people from hopping all over the state. Maybe limiting the number of rifle tags in areas, or making more areas muzzleloader only, or archery only would be another option. Enough said. I just think we're shooting ourselves in the foot, if we start forcing people to change their habits and give up what keeps most of us breathing from year to year.

 

[G14]

The residents you guys complain about hunting all of the state are not the guys shooting 2 1/2 yr old basket 4 points. In Fact, I would venture to say most of these guys end up eating their tags. Call me crazy, but guys aren't traveling all over the state trying to shoot a 2 point.

Want to improve management? How about a mandatory survey reporting. How can the G&F manage any area without knowing the # of animals being harvested by hunters?

Another idea - How about adding regions? I know someone just said, "What?" If you had 10 regions with 2 areas each, instead of say 5 regions with 4 areas, it would relieve pressure from NR in certain areas. It would also allow the G&F to set a more precise quota. If you added this with mandatory survey reporting it would greatly help the science of setting quotas.

We gotta start thinking outside the box, because the current mule deer management is not working!

TopGun- Anyone who only hunted deer would disagree with my suggestion, and I wouldn't blame them. There would be people who would pay. There would be less NR buying a Region D tag. Why? Because it sucks! Why? Because of management! However, 7 years from now there would be better deer hunting. The price increase would cause less guys trying for random tags, and just buying points until quality improved. This would increase draw odds for some areas. Do you have any suggestions?

 

[juliusvatalaro]

Bucklover and G14 very good input. I hunted Idaho in 2010 and found out about there new ATV restrictions. What they did was impose travel restriction in certain hunt areas. What the law states is if the atv trail you are on can't be made with a 1/2 ton pick-up then you may not travel on it with your atv. The only exceptions are to set up camp and retrieve your game. You can't have a firearm on your atv. What's crazy about this new law is the USFS designates certain trails as atv only trails. Idaho Fish and Game say's you can't hunt from those trails. I spoke with the USFS and they stated they will not inforce this law on the forest. They will however cite you if you have a jeep on a atv trail only. The reason makes sense in theory. Idaho spent millions on the impact study to determine that atv's and vehilces negatively impact wild game. So what they are trying to do is minimize disturbance of game with off road vehicles. I was at a meeting last night in Afton and we discussed managing the mule deer on the wyoming range. Some key points I would like to share with you is about what there plans are for habitat management. They are going to have more control burns in coopereation with BLM and USFS to improve forage and get rid of decadent sage brush and improve the browse. Do a better job with regards to grazing leases. We also discussed mandatory survey reporting. If you do not do the survey you will not be eligable to hunt the following year. Game and Fish did not think it would need to come to that, I don't agree.

Julius

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-11 AT 07:58AM (MST)[p]Thanks Julius! I did read it and it pretty well backed up what I was trying to get across on that thread. Maybe that's why Buzz didn't get back on there!

G14---Just a comment on the mandatory survey you mentioned. I've been pressing for that back here in Michigan for a long time with no luck. I don't know about the resident tags, but our Wyoming nonresident tags have a landowner section that is torn off and either given to the rancher if an animal is taken on deeded property or we send it in to the G&F if it was taken on public property. The ranchers get something like $14 or $16 per tag (can't remember for sure) when they turn them in to the G&F. I always do that, but since there is no penalty that I'm aware of if you don't, I don't know how many that fill a tag do it. That is essentially an easy way to do a survey and if they made it mandatory and tweaked it a little so that everyone had to return it or not get a license the following year I think it would be a simple and cheap way to help game management. Come to think of it, I had to go on the New Mexico G&F site after my mulie hunt last Fall down there to make a harvest report under penalty of not getting another license if I didn't report!

bucklover---You made a number of very good points with excellent reasoning IMO on your post! I especially agree with the "get away from the roads" and "close off some of the access roads" to make the hunt better and to make it an enjoyable experience. It seems as though a very high percentage of people are hunting right near the roads or are taking quads into areas where they shouldn't or don't need to and that ruins areas quickly. I know the area I hunt would be a waste of time if quads were allowed and I would have to quickly find another area.

Good thread guys!!!

 

[TreeEM]

You guys have written some good points. Someone mentioned region d and why it sucked or so they thought. Well there is more to it than "managing" mule deer. Mule deer are not your typical whitetail where they can bounce back from a bad winter just like that. The thing to understand when talking about deer in wyoming is that mule deer take a long time to come back strong. That means a relative buck to doe ratio, good "quality" bucks, etc.....
The place that I have been mule deer hunting here in Wyoming for 6 years has never let me down and there is little to no hunting pressure. Some of you may say ya right this guys is full of it. Wrong! I spend everyday from dark to dark waiting to harvest a good mature deer. I see lots of deer a day. I also know when someone has been in there.
There are pros and cons to going to a limited quota for what you want to accomplish. Where does it start? Thats the question. Maybe improving habitat? Please keep in mind that not the whole entire state is what some of you described as during the hunting season.
Talk to ya gents later.

 

[BuzzH]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-11 AT 09:22AM (MST)[p]All this BS talk about making LQ areas is a joke.

There are quality deer in every general unit in Wyoming.

What are you creating with more LQ areas? Nothing, take a good look at the average bucks coming out of unit 101, 102, 128, 87, etc. etc. etc. I wouldnt trade my general tag for any of those units. There is a grand total of ONE area in Wyoming I'd trade my general tag for.

If thats the "quality" that limited quota areas buy us...I'm not willing to "sell" my general tag hunting opporunities for it.

TreeM and bucklover are the only ones on this thread that understand what it takes to have good hunting...mainly working at deer hunting and limiting access.

All LQ areas buy you is $hit odds and a chance to whack a 150 buck closer to the road...isnt worth it.

 

[bucklover]

BuzzH, thanks for the compliment.

 

[bucklover]

Topgun, thank you for your comments, also. Hunting is my passion. I'm not in a position to back pack in for 10+ miles, but I have found if a person is willing to put in the time, there are good bucks to be had almost anywhere. Maybe quality is relative. If I'm killing a respectable buck in a heavily hunted area, that makes it even more special. I just know, I don't want to give up hunting every other year. There are so many other options that we can look at before we take that road. Hunting will quickly become a thing of the past if we go that direction.

 

[BuzzH]

bucklover,

Thats my point as well, the first "solution" is always to go limited quota. Its a joke.

There are lots of other things to try, season structures, timing of hunts, and the biggest of all LIMITING ACCESS, improving deer habitat, increasing lion harvest, even hunters showing personal restraint on killing young deer.

In the last 4 years I've only killed 2 mule deer bucks. Its not that I couldnt have killed 4, I just choose to kill whitetails if I cant find a good mule deer buck.

Hunting each year should not come down to who is lucky in the draw. Successful hunting and trophy bucks should be enjoyed by those that hunt the hardest.

 

[bucklover]

Well said!

 

[TreeEM]

Agreed.

 

[G14]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-11 AT 01:34PM (MST)[p]Let's talk access - I've seen a lot of guys mention cutting access as a possible way of improving deer herds, and I probably wouldn't disagree with their comments. However, I would caution all of you that someday you will be older. Then what? You just stop hunting? I mainly deer with my 81 year old grandmother and 60 year old mother, and elk hunt with them and my 65 year old dad. They aren't as nimble as they once were, but still enjoy getting out. We don't ride ATV's do do so, but do drive a truck until we get to an area we want to hunt. If access is limited then just the young and able get to hunt, and that I don't agree with.

By the way my 81 yr old grandma shot the best deer of her life this last year, and did it with a 257 Roberts and iron sites. I would guess it was in the 140" range. She also shot two six point bull elk in her late 70's with a crossbow. I'm very proud of her.

TreeM - I mentioned Region D in an earlier post, and I'm aware of the bad winter in '07 and '08. I would venture to say it wasn't very good up to '07 and '08. The bad winter was just the icing on the cake. The last good year was around '03. What I don't understand is why the G&F haven't cut back licenses to residents and NR. At a check station last year the G&F guy said all they checked were two points, and 1 buck in the low 180"'s. You can't have age structure when 90% of the 2 points are being shot. They can't even sell out NR Region Tags, because even the NR know it sucks. It would make me happy if they split the Casper/Shirley Basin area, and made it a different region. Why? Because the areas aren't even connected. This would allow the G&F to set better NR quotas.

BuzzH,

"All this BS talk about making LQ areas is a joke."

"TreeM and bucklover are the only ones on this thread that understand what it takes to have good hunting...mainly working at deer hunting and limiting access."

I've never had a problem with you, but it's guys like you who stop guys from writing their OPINIONS!!!! When did you become the "man" who decides who is right or wrong? I knew sooner than later you would show up, and ruin this thread. You should stop disrespecting people, and maybe someone would listen to you. Until then, you could post up the pics of animals you've shot on public land, and think you're hot chit. If you did post up your pics it would be, what for the 50th time? I've seen guys like you my whole life. It's not about whats good for everyone, it's about whats good for you!

No matter how good you think you are, there's always someone better.

 

[TOPGUN]

BuzzH---I think we're more on the same page than you think. I threw the LE quota out as one possible way to reduce pressure and make a quality experience in areas where some think there are too many people, not really to increase the quality of the deer being shot! I'm in the same boat as you in that I hunt with a Regional tag every year and have never applied for a LE unit. I haven't killed any Booners, but I have killed enough "good" bucks over 140" that I have passed on bucks the last three seasons to try to better the best one I have on the wall. I just can't see shooting a buck that is 2 or 3 years from his potential, even though he might be dead before he reaches it. Even at 63 I get way in off the roads and have to backpack a deer out in a couple trips in order to hunt at my age. That is one more reason that I'm being more selective as I get older! I hunt public land where ATVs are not allowed and that is the way I have overcome what people complain about as overcrowding. I also hunt the last two weeks of the three week season and don't have any "people problems" because about the only other hunters out there then are a few locals. I laugh at those who hunt the same general areas I do when they complain about low deer numbers and no bucks around because the deer are there! Most of these whiners won't get out of sight of their vehicle, if they even get out of the vehicle itself, LOL! The only reason I mentioned LE tags was a possible way to limit access. If you had the decision making power to change one thing to limit access in a particular area, what would that be or would it be a combination of things as mentioned earlier?

 

[BuzzH]

G14,

Take a good look at a map sometime...go look at google earth. Tell me how you can come to the conclusion that shutting down some key areas and limiting access will stop you and your older pals from hunting?

Good friggin' grief.

On that same note, my grandfather hunted until he was 84 and died with a handful of deer and elk tags in his pocket in September of 2000. He never expected or asked for special privileges and also understood the importance of limiting access for the betterment of wildlife. He wasnt so selfish that he thought every bit of country should be afforded easy access just so he could hunt there.

He had a great hunting career and was fully aware that there was A LOT of country that he just couldnt physically hunt anymore. He also realized the intrinsic value just knowing that the places he hunted in his youth were still there for his son, and also his grandson. Very impressive thinking for a man his age...

So everytime I hear people like you whine about access and limiting access just because some old fart can have an easier time...I about throw-up in my mouth.

Heres some old guys that still cut it elk hunting and they dont hunt from the truck.

They hunt the wilderness and they pack elk out on their backs and have been doing so for over 40 years. One is in his late 60's the other in his mid-70's.

Since I know these guys well, and help them pack elk each year, I'll go ahead and tell you, for them, that they dont expect special privileges or any sympathy from you. They also dont want easy access into their elk spots because of their age either.

Save your excuses for maximizing access for the people you can BS...I'm not one of them.

 

[TOPGUN]

G14---I hope you read my PM to you before you make any more responses because you were sure right and I think what I mentioned in my PM was right on the button! No matter how you try to deal with some people they were just born to be assholes!!!

 

[G14]

Let's talk DISRESPECT-

"Good friggin' grief."

"I about throw-up in my mouth."

"Save your excuses for maximizing access for the people you can BS...I'm not one of them."

You're a class act! Maybe you should work on how you put things. You could have certainly stated your OPINION without all that garbage.

Never once did I ask for sympathy for older hunters, but some RESPECT would be nice. I didn't say lets cut a thousand more roads for better access. However, leaving the roads that were put there 60 years ago aren't hurting a damn thing IN MY OPINION.

Thanks for the pics. It's good to see the older generation still hunting. By far, the best pics you've ever posted!

 

[BuzzH]

TOPGUN,

I deal in reality and I've heard all the lame excuses for NOT limiting access.

There are only a very few choices to increase the experience and quality of deer in Wyoming.

1. Limit access and try some of the other things I mentioned in addition to it. Do that there is no need or reason for limited quota areas.

2. Keep access open to every 80 year old, dont restrict access and go to draw only. That way, you can hunt every 4-10 years, but you dont have to drag a deer very far, probably drive right up to it.

The fact is, take a single fuggin' look at the deer coming from the LQ areas in Wyoming. Not the best 1-2, take a look at the average buck. Areas like 101, 102, 128, 87...all LQ areas that have $hit for draw odds.

The quality of the deer in those units is poor...at best poor. Anyone with a single firing brain cell can see whats going on in those areas. Theres roads every 1/4 mile in all those listed. The access is not limited, but the tags are, and yet the average deer killed is still a dink. Its not because people arent spending time there, not because of bad genetics, its a function of TOO MUCH ACCESS.

I can assure you, I could close unit 101, 102, and 87 at the highway...close 95% of the existing roads in there, severely limit access. I could issue twice the tags as there are now, and there is NO question in 4-5 years we'd be killing bigger deer in all those units.

The trouble with easy access is not just a function of hunting, but also a function of how easy it is to poach when you have easy access.

Easy access even in LQ areas severly impacts the quality of the hunt as well as the quality of the deer...its a fact.

 

[BuzzH]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-11 AT 02:18PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-11 AT 02:16?PM (MST)

If you werent looking for sympathy...then dont drag old people into the discussion as an excuse to keep everything open. what was the point of bringing it up? To make a case for LIMITING ACCESS?

There are flat too many roads and too much easy access currently, and thats a fact.

Only way to fix that is to close some of those 60 year old roads to 80 year old hunters...

As far as how I put things, as straight forward as I can. I'm tired of pandering around and handling these issues with kid gloves just so someone doesnt get their feelers hurt.

Honesty is the best way forward...if we want to maintain any kind of hunting heritage.

 

[G14]

If you look at my posts I never mention limiting access in any of my suggestions. What I said was I wouldn't disagree that it may help the deer herds. All I ask is that we consider the older generation when discussing limited access.

I can appreciate putting things straight forward, but if you cut out all the garbage you think you have to put in your posts, you would be more respected. For example:

"As far as how I put things, as straight forward as I can. I'm tired of pandering around and handling these issues with kid gloves just so someone doesnt get their feelers hurt."

What you could have said was:

"As far as how I put things, as straight forward as I can."

It gets your point across without the disrespect. You can have a civil forum conversation without having to put the guy down, because the guy has an opinion that you don't agree with.

This will be my last comment regarding you and your behavior on this thread. I apologize to the OP for getting off track.

 

[TreeEM]

BuzzH I am 24 and I agree with most of your points. I don't disagree with the other ones just agree with your strong points. Limiting access can help the deer bounce back at a faster rate then an area that was not like that. But when you have every one and thier grandma out ther shooting young bucks its hard to establish some quality deer. Maybe a point restriction on bucks would help? I love wyoming for deer I mean just love it. There are great deer everywhere just have to search for them.
I wished that the MDF would care for the mule deer or better yet someone started another organization for mule deer that would focus on the management part of it just like all the freakn' whitetail organizations to help the muleys come back.
If someone would to let me manage a ranch for muleys I would be in heaven. Mule deer are my passion and they always will be. But if we went to a limited quota that would NOT be in the best interst of our future deer. Some of you may know that mule deer are very hard to manage.
As far as old hunters kudos to you. My great grandpa died when he was 93. He killed many many big deer and was a great impact on my life. I wished that I could have hunted with him once. I like to hunt with the older generation becuase of the things they know and just the fact that thier passion for the outdoors is why many of us are still hunting. Keep up the good work BuzzH maybe some day we can hunt together.
Talk to ya guys later.

 

[nontypical]

TreeEm-Are you a member of MDF?Are you going to start a better organization??It's pretty easy to sit back and say"they should do this"or "they should do that"!Who exactly is they??That would be you and me.Volunteers.That's who "they" is.I am actively involved in our local MDF chapter It amazes me how everyone has a suggestion for what "we" should be doing,but about 1% actually sign on to help.I am extending an offer to you to come join us!We could use your youthful exuberance in our organization!Walk the walk,don't just talk the talk!BuzzH-You are correct in many of your opinions(despite your lack of couth and common courtesy!LOL!).I really don't want to see LQ unless there is no net loss of hunting.But please-don't accuse others of selfishness because they want better quality hunting and animals!You could be accused of the same by having to hunt every year!We all have our own opinions about things.Do you agree that something needs to be done for better hunt quality?Or are you satisfied with the status quo?Were you around before 101 and 102 went to LQ?I didn't think so.You really don't have a clue what the hunting was like there,so I'll tell you.Finding a buck was very hard,and finding a mature buck was just downright impossible!The difference from then to now is night and day.So don't put go off half-cocked saying LQ doesn't work!That statement is absolute BS.Not saying LQ is the answer for everything,but it was in this instance.It saved those units from being the worst in the state to being some of the most sought after!If you didn't like the hunting there,then don't go there again!Perhaps your hunting ability could come into question here(as you so tactfully like to point out to others their lousy hunting ability)!Because I guarantee you there are quality bucks in both units taken every year!Over 200" bucks!Not everyone that disagrees with you is an a$$hole.Just saying.You are right on the money about access issues and 4-wheelers,though.

 

[bucklover]

Just for the record, I am just a few months away from 60 myself. I finally bought a 4 wheeler a few years ago and have really enjoyed it. I take it where its legal, especially those rocky steep roads that would otherwise beat the snot out of my truck. I also have a deer cart that I had one of my students build me years ago. I don't go hunting anywhere without it. I figured out how to tow it behind my 4 wheeler. Those that hunt with me have quickly realized its value. I drive where I can legally drive and that deer cart takes most of the work out of the rest of it. I have no desire to haul an elk out on my back from 5 or 10 miles back in. I admire those that can do that, but I sure don't resent them for doing it. I just plain don't want to work that hard anymore. I've had my turn and have plenty of good hunts ahead of me. I've learned that patience (within a few miles of motorized access) usually fills my tag with a quality animal. If I don't fill the tag, or choose not to fill the tag, the experience with friends, and the joy of just being there, is worth every penny.

 

[TreeEM]

Nontypical- Well here we go with this again. No matter what forum people are on it always goes to this. YES I was a member and now I am not. For reasons that does not concern you. Maybe I will start a new organization, who are you to critisize me or someone else for that matter? I am sure you are far from perfect. I was merely stating that I wished there were alot better efforts put in to mule deer like the whitetail people do. I was not bashing the MDF, I just may not approve of some things. Does that make a me a lazy person who sits here and points out things hell no and screw you for calling me out like that. You don't know ##### about me. Yeah I mad becuase one thing I hate is some errogant bastard thats gets on here and accuses people of what they are not. If you think your ##### don't stink why don't you shut your mouth and use my ideas or other peoples ideas and think about them. You just stated that your no better than anyone else with your remark towards me.
I would sign on but like everything its all politcs, and I don't live in Wyoming anymore for which I sure wished I did. I moved 9 months ago. Are these excuses no they are my beliefs. And when you live in utah it seems like nothing but corrupt people running the state.
Next time choose your words wisely. I believe in karma do you?

 

[BuzzH]

nontypical,

The only reason 101 and 102 are sought after is because they contain a buttload of easy access.

I'd be shocked if with the 475 total tags issued between 101 and 102 if there is more than 1-2 deer a year that are killed in excess of 200 inches...GROSS. You hear about all kinds of 180 this and 200 that...yet I never see many score sheets with official numbers. Veddy interesting.

Dont get me wrong, those are great units for seeing a lot of deer, but there isnt much for quality. I can find better deer hunting in general units and I dont have to fight crap draw odds to do it.

Whats selfish about wanting to maintain a hunting heritage where families can enjoy a deer hunt together each year? How do you propose we keep kids interested in hunting, recruit more hunters, and keep the ones we currently have...if they only get to hunt once every 4-10+ years?

The only way is to continue with general tags, it sure as hell isnt by making every unit in WY limited quota.

The fact is that NONE of the other options are even being tried. The only thing being discussed is going LQ, and thats a crap plan from the get-go.

As to the MDF, not a snowballs chance in hell I'll belong to that organization again unless they make a huge change in policy. They lost me the day they chose to affiliate with SFW, and I made that fact known.

 

[nontypical]

Bucklover-+1!I couldn't agree more with your philosophy!TreeEm-In no way was my intent to get you riled up like that!Whew!My crap stinks just like everyone elses(maybe not quite as bad).The point I was trying to make(which you couldn't see due to being clouded by anger!)was this:I love your enthusiasm and obvious love for mule deer.Too bad you won't channel that passion towards something that helps our herds and hunting.Cool down,dude!!No offense intended towards you at all!Maybe you should re-read my post..Buzz-Trust me on this,101 and 102 are 20 times better than they were before LQ!I would hate to see statewide LQ;I don't think we need that;at least not without trying other stuff first.As I've said before,age class is my concern,and hunt quality.With the present overcrowding in many areas,both of those are going downhill.You are wrong about only LQ being discussed,though.That may be true on this forum,but other options are being discussed by those that choose to take part in onging talks through public meetings with G&F.Not saying MDF is the answer,either.No organization does everything I like;or dislike.I think they do more good than bad,though.Off to work,kids!Talk to ya later!

 

[TreeEM]

When I see exclamation marks in your paragraph I read it as your expressing it in a disrespectful way. I do channel my efforts into something better. You just called me out on something that was not true. So I was defending my integrety. You have a choice, you can either continue to talk to me in a disrespectful way and or we can talk things over like respectful people. Your choice. I am not going to get sucked into your attention seeking attitude. Good luck with that.

 

[TOPGUN]

TreeEM---I hate to get in the middle of this, but I just reread the comments nontypical made and both times in reading it I don't feel that he was trying to be nasty, but rather trying to get you to help out with all that youthful enthusiasm you obviously are expressing. That is a big problem when we type out stuff and are not face to face to see people's expressions, tone of voice, etc. I thought he offered an honest apology, as well as trying to explain what he meant, so why not shake hands and maybe take him up on whatever you can do to better the mulie's environment. After all, I think that's what all of us are really after, isn't it? Peace Bro!!!

 

[piper]

I wish Wyoming would do what Nevada did 30 years ago and what Colorado did a decade ago, go to a completely limited statewide draw. These little changes here and there is what Utah and Idaho have done for years, and It doesn't work. The deer hunting areas I care about mostly are pretty roadless now, so I don't see limiting access as helping those areas. Before Nevadas deer population really declined and the human population exploded I drew tags every year, even with a totally limited draw, I believe Wyoming residents could hunt deer every year, limiting the limited areas is why its so tough to draw. I have no illusions, and Im just blowing smoke, its not going to happen, and things aren't going to get much better. In Colorado things had to hit bottom before changes could be made, and Wyoming has a ways to go before it gets like Colorado was, or Utah is for that matter. I could only dream about what it would be like if Wyoming drasticly cut tags in Regions G and H for a few years, something like Colorado did in the Gunnision Basin some years ago. Maybe Im weird, but dreaming about a fully mature world class buck is why I go deer hunting, If I want a good piece of meat, Ill get a tag and hunt for a calf elk, If I want an adventure Ill go climb a peak, and if I want to be with my family we will go camping or fishing.

 

[TreeEM]

Topgun- Ok I see your point. I will do my best to get over it. Its ok with me that you get in it. Sometimes it better to hear from someone else about the issue rather than the person you are mad at. Thanks man.

 

[blacktailBC]

juliusvatalaro.....sent you a P.M.

blacktail

 

[juliusvatalaro]

Ditto

 

[bucklover]

To which comment would you be Dittoing?

 

[nontypical]

Thanks for the help,TOPGUN.TreeEm-no offense intended toward you,bud.TOPGUN explained my intent perfectly!Looks like no changes in the Wyoming Range as far as a unifying opener.Business as usual.The overwhelming response to the question was leave it alone.Out of approx 80 replies,57 responded no change.13 voted for a Sept 15 opener,and 23 for an Oct.1 opener.I really think unifying that opening day would have been a perfect solution to cure overcrowding on the opener.I also believe that animal age class would go hand in hand with that.Might take a few years for that,though.Guess we'll never know!

 

[chadderbox]

I'm new here and was curious about what the thoughts are on the winter kills we experience here in Wyo... To me it seems like that has more of effect on the population than the pressure does... Your gonna always have the hunters that don't care what they harvest and want the easiest access to them... It's always been the case that generally the trophies are harder to get... Just like in Area 90 deer it's just coming back from the bad winter from over 10 years ago... Area 97 was hit the same, I don't blame it on the pressure... I don't think I should have to give up my general tags so there is more quality... Pay to hunt a private ranch if you want that... Even at that those ranches aren't producing any better... Why? Because they can't stop the winters on ranch any better... I hear hunters complain about the private just as bad... You think Hunting TV for a lot of the premium areas being over crowded... Thank you Micheal Waddell and primos...