Wyoming Game and Fish

peez3006

Active Member
Messages
605
Hey guys. I just wanted to vent and see if I have a reason to gripe. I just got off of the phone with WG&F. I was directed to the biologist's voicemail to leave my question. (So far, so good.) On his message he states that he cannot return any calls out of state, unless he calls collect. This is a new one for me. Has anyone heard of this anywhere else? With the amount of money I send to Wyoming every year, you would think that they could afford a phone call. Maybe I'm just being a cry baby, but it doesn't seem very non-resident friendly. I guess I'll forget about it when I'm chasing big bucks in Region G. (If there are any left)

Don P.
 
Yes, it sucks but you have to deal with it. The best thing to do is call in the evening (WY time) as they seem to be out in the field most of the time during the day. I'm sure they get bombarded by stupid non-resident questions because I have called them many times myself. One year I talked to a game warden while hunting in the field and he mentioned some access areas that I was interested in. The next year, I tracked down his number and called him several dozen times and left messages but he never called me back and I even left messages offering for him to call me collect.

Searchin' for a 4 X 4
 
I remember back in the 80's there was a guy named Harry Haru (spelling)...he was the most accommodating Biologist I ever spoke too, I think he's retired now
 
I got a ton of information out of a guy named Mark Zornes. He is also retired. He is responsible for getting me hooked on hunting Wyoming. I have noticed that over the last 4-5 years it is a lot tougher to get good information out of the folks who work for the state.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-07 AT 06:21AM (MST)[p]>They do that to help keep
>our resident tags lower priced.
> We appreciate yer help...
>

You will have to forgive Triple BB. He is the most self-centered person on this site and also thinks that he personally owns all of the federal wilderness areas in the state of Wyoming, that of course equally belong to every tax paying American in the U.S.
I have found the bioligists and wardens to be very helpful and informative. They do have to ask this because of the huge volume of calls that they receive and how it relates to budget limitations. I think for them it also weeds out the sincere calls from those that maybe just want to visit.
 
Mark Zornes actually moved to Kentucky, and Harry Harju is retired. The Game and Fish guys can be tough to catch, but they are pretty well informed and generally helpful. Searcher gave the best advice, try them in the evening. Sorry you struggle, but so do the rest of us as residents. People are just tough to get on the phone these days.
 
Hi gents, hope to shed some light. I was the district wildlife biologist in Casper 1993-2001. I've probably spoken with several folks on this site.

The typical Wyoming wildlife biologist or game warden works long hours. The typical nonresident applicant has no clue about their work load, which in early-mid spring (application time) can include getting up at 3-4am for sage grouse lek counts, hazing elk/deer from stored hay crops dusk to dawn, conducting spring big game counts during daylight hours, running out at all hours to plug a crippled animal on the road, etc. It's also number crunching time, finalizing season recommendations from the field. I can't even imagine the increased work load since I left, trying to get some wildlife protection work done with the wholesale energy and minerals development destruction happening in some of the last, best wildlife habitat around. Being familiar with most of the state agencies, I am confident Wyoming G&F - at least wildlife field staff - have the heaviest workload around.

On top of all that, until March 15 rolls around, hundreds of thousands of hopeful nonresidents are eagerly anticipating a chance to hunt through the license draw process (that's why WGFD has their own zip code, 82006). Fortunately for the wildlife guys, only thousands call for information. The collect call thing is not new, but really it exists to cut down on the volume of calls to return. I estimate I spent 80-160 hours on the phone with approximately 500-1000 nonresidents January 1 - March 15.

If you want to talk to someone, try the phone bank during 8-5 Monday through Friday, see if they can answer your question; if you wnat to talk to one of the field staff, keep calling. I always tried to make some time to return nonresident applicants' calls, but it wasn't always possible. If you reached me in the office, I made the time. If the bio or warden is not in a Regional office, don't call before 7am or after 8pm - you're calling his house, he probably won't answer, and he's definitely not going to return your call and give you good information. Would you?

Don't waste their time asking for the impossible. 1) If the area has 100% draw success, or leftover licenses for bucks/bulls, you CAN'T get on to hunt a quality ranch for free, and there isn't good public land hunting - at least by WY standards. 2) Don't sob story them - it's very sad that you - your kid - your dad - etc. is dying, especially if true; but a whole bunch of guys before you have tried that tactic to find that "secret" sympathetic rancher who'll take your word for it and let your party on to hunt for free. (If it's actually true, contact the Helluva Hunt out of Douglas, or one of the other charitable organizations who can set something like this up.) 3) There is NO area with: lots of public land, easy drawing odds, good road access AND above average quality bucks or bulls. I used to tell these callers to pick three of the four, and I could give them some pointers. Pick the two of the four which matter most, and you've got lots of options.

Harry Harju did retire, and whether you loved him or hated him, was one of the most passionate, most pro wildlife and most pro hunting administrators I've ever known; it was a real privilege to work with him. Mark Zornes didn't retire - he quit like me. Good news is, he's going back last I heard, replacing Bill Rudd as wildlife coordinator in Green River. Hope that's true, he's a good guy too.

Last bits of advice; DON'T ASK ABOUT SCORES. Not that these aren't a legit interest, but I guarantee in this day and age, they are sick to death of score freaks and the bad activities associated with it. Too many jerks freaking out on that subject, too many negative prior contacts, and too many illegal and unethical kills in their work experiences all centered on that particular mania. You may think you're trying to get a feel for relative quality, but ask another way, ie, what's a typical good buck, what are the odds of a good hard working hunter killing a representative 4-point buck/6-point bull, etc. Use the score freaks to research B&C, ie, Garth Carter, Eastmans, etc.

DON'T ask for an "x" on a map, a secret honeyhole, etc. That's not fair to the guys who've found it on their own, and that's why I rarely if ever gave those away. Far better for you to do your homework, ie maps, THEN call and ask about specifics that look good to you. Those I would answer.

Try to get it all in one call; at most, two. By your third-tenth call, I'm totally done with you.

Good luck to you all in the draws. Yeah, I don't get to hunt the wilderness areas unguided either. Yeah, it's BS. No, that lovely bit of legislation wasn't pushed through by WGFD (nor was the regular/special license split).
 
So, whats the difference between making a long distance call to a NR out of state and a long distance call in-state? I would think they would call everyone collect.




It's Bush's fault!!!
 
I, in no way, have a problem with the biologists. I know that they get spread pretty thin. My beef is with WGF. In the past I have dealt with biologists in Nevada, CO, Utah, and Idaho. They always had the time to answer my questions. Seems like they need more staff.

Don P.
 
I talked to a biologist out of the Green River office a few times last year. He called me back every time I left him a message and he was very helpful I wonder if the collect calling thing is new?
 
Ansonlynn said it all! That's one of the best posts I have seen on MM in a long long time.

Tim
Searchin' for a 4 X 4
 
Ansonlynn, That was a very well written post and did a great job of detailing the frustrations that I have heard voiced from many biologists. I mean imagine talking with the 15th guy that day that is merely talking about scorable inches and how many other states he has hunted or has apps. in, there is very little connection there. I agree that you are better off doing some homework and then asking specific questions. Part of that homework would entail getting a real idea of what potential really exists for this area (truly mature buck for Salmon area is different than a buck at potential in the SE corner of Idaho). I do have to say that the collect call thing is a total crock, when you look at the amount of $$ that NRs put into Wyoming, not only the Wildlife Department, but he state as a whole. The good part for them is that they have the resources and so people will put up with it. I wish Idaho would do a bit more to protect their residents (make tags more difficult to come by for NRs and make it so NRs can't hunt wilderness without a guide, ooohh to dream). I am not against NR hunters, have lots of friends who come here and I try to go and hunt their home states, but it can be hard to get a permit (luckily most states have decent odds of getting a tag if you hunt with stick and string).
 
IDarcher,
How hard should it be for us non-res. to get a tag? I have to buy a hunting license just to apply. Then non-res. can only receive "up to" 10% of the tags. I think residents should get some preferecial treatment, and it seems to me that they are. If the split was any worse than 90/10 it would be criminal. Just my opinion.

Don P.
 
Ansonlynn:

Very good post.

It should be a permanent post for all of us non-residents to read before we call to ask all the stupid things we could find out if we would do some research on our own.

I would rather a biologist be in the field doing the things you cited, rather than returning phone calls to hunters.

There is not a high enough pay scale in state government to get me to be a biologist or warden.

Happy Hunting!


"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
DON, THE 90/10 SPLIT IS CRIMINAL....80/20 WOULD BE FAIR. TO BUY A LIC. FIRST, THEN PAY IN EXCESS OF 10 TIMES THE AMOUNT OF A RESIDENT FOR A GIVEN TAG IS CRIMINAL. THE TREND IS GOING THE WAY OF THE NR AS YOU MAY SEE IN THE NEXT2-4 YEARS IN THE WAY OF SPLIT %. THE STATE GAME DEPT. LIKE OUR $$$$. ---- YD.
 
Don,
for controlled hunts you are correct, but with no limits (ok statewide cap that sometimes is met) on NRs on general rifle and archery hunts... Part of the previous post was sarcastic, but a small portion was honest. I am not guaranteed an over the counter tag in many other western states as an NR. The general season archery elk hunt here in Idaho would be markedly less crowded in some of the zones if there was a cap put on the # of NRs that could purchase a tag (diamond creek zone just got this) and I am sure that some areas would be somewhat less crowded on the general deer hunt as well (I realize that we are not exactly over-run with out of staters on the geneal deer, but certain spots get more that their share of NR pressure)... Again, I am not against NR hunters, cuz like has been pointed out, I am one in 49 other states, but I am not guaranteed a tag for deer or elk in many of the other western states even for a general season.
 

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