Wyoming G and H non resident tags cut again

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Bookhead

Bookhead

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Looks like they are proposing cutting g and h again and implementing a 4 point or better antler restriction. Damn times is gettin' hard for the NR
 
Thats a start, But in the most popular drainages, Hunters will out number Bucks 10 to 1. That should work out well. I recently made a little video on you tube, I'm sure jm 77 would enjoy. almost gone 5 years of a big buck. If you want to watch great, if not thats great to.
 
Instead of antler point restrictions, there should be an antler width restriction, all deer with under a 14" outside antler spread cannot be killed. In my experience 99%+ of mature mule deer bucks are wider than 14" outside, I think this would be better at protecting 1-2 yo deer rather than having a point restriction. I'm open to other thoughts though?
 
A good podcast by Robby Denning with Jeff Short southwest WY G&F biologist on antler point restrictions from last summer. Short term is ok but their are no long term benefits to 4pt restrictions.

https://www.rokslide.com/antler-point-restrictions-with-wyo-bio-jeff-short/

It'll firmly protect yearling bucks but those 2yr old 3x4s will still get smoked. Youth hunters can take any buck.
Personally I think all areas in g & h should be set to the same opening and closing dates. Make it a 6 or 9 day season. Appears they are wanting those H areas closed prior to the Sept 26th elk opener.
 
I don't see how a 4 point rule wouldn't help. Maybe not long term, but who cares about that. Next year is what the focus needs to be on.
 
What is lost in the conversation is that Wyo allows for eye guards to count (any protrusion). So potentially a 3x4 is really a 2x3 and while he might have great genetics he is fair game to those who must fill their tag. Wyo APR is “pointless,” pun intended.
 
DoubleU said:
What is lost in the conversation is that Wyo allows for eye guards to count (any protrusion). So potentially a 3x4 is really a 2x3 and while he might have great genetics he is fair game to those who must fill their tag. Wyo APR is “pointless,” pun intended.
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Do eye guards and extra points count towards B&C/P&Y scoring?
 
letmgetbig said:
Thats a start, But in the most popular drainages, Hunters will out number Bucks 10 to 1. That should work out well. I recently made a little video on you tube, I'm sure jm 77 would enjoy. almost gone 5 years of a big buck. If you want to watch great, if not thats great to.
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Link?
 
A point is anything over an inch as per regs.

I just wish they did APR longer instead of a year here and there. I think the end goal is 3 years to run APR.

Remember game and fish doesn't manage quality but mange quantity. Seems to me they failed.
 
Jq23 said:
I agree, limit the residents. It's coming.
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What's the saying... "At first they came for the...."

Until Wyoming is willing to take the wrath of WYOGA and WY residents who demand cheap, plentiful tags because they think the only reason to live in WY is hunting in September and October, nothing will change and WY hunting will continue to decline.

I know a lot more people building points in WY than applying there. Everybody is hoping it'll turn around in a decade or so and be worth the cost of buying points all these years. None of them are willing to burn 15 years of points on a deer tag right now though.
 
grizzly said:
What's the saying... "At first they came for the...."

Until Wyoming is willing to take the wrath of WYOGA and WY residents who demand cheap, plentiful tags because they think the only reason to live in WY is hunting in September and October, nothing will change and WY hunting will continue to decline.

I know a lot more people building points in WY than applying there. Everybody is hoping it'll turn around in a decade or so and be worth the cost of buying points all these years. None of them are willing to burn 15 years of points on a deer tag right now though.
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Really?

Should be a huge bunch of NR tags on the leftover list this year.

How many region G and H NR deer tags you think will go unsold this year?
 
BuzzH said:
Really?

Should be a huge bunch of NR tags on the leftover list this year.

How many region G and H NR deer tags you think will go unsold this year?
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G&H will be the most limited non-resident units in the state this Fall. Maybe they should be?
 
grizzly said:
What's the saying... "At first they came for the...."

Until Wyoming is willing to take the wrath of WYOGA and WY residents who demand cheap, plentiful tags because they think the only reason to live in WY is hunting in September and October, nothing will change and WY hunting will continue to decline.

I know a lot more people building points in WY than applying there. Everybody is hoping it'll turn around in a decade or so and be worth the cost of buying points all these years. None of them are willing to burn 15 years of points on a deer tag right now though.
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Well they did something right with this winter, glad to see WYOGA and Mother Nature collaborating on the start of building the herd back up.

While waiting for the deer to come back one should take the time to hunt the declining elk herd.

Anyone sitting on 15 points missed a lot go great opportunities to hunt big deer.
 
SS! said:
Well they did something right with this winter, glad to see WYOGA and Mother Nature collaborating on the start of building the herd back up.

While waiting for the deer to come back one should take the time to hunt the declining elk herd.

Anyone sitting on 15 points missed a lot go great opportunities to hunt big deer.
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That may be. Thousands and thousands of people are sitting on high points and not applying each year.

Screenshot_20240320_083100_Drive.jpg
 
WYGOA must love WY residents, they’ve had G and H tags cut at least 3 times in the last 10 years while placing no restriction on WY residents.

When the deer come back and they will, it’s going to be amazing deer hunting for residents. The chances of NR getting those tags back are highly unlikely.
 
nfh said:
A point is anything over an inch as per regs.

I just wish they did APR longer instead of a year here and there. I think the end goal is 3 years to run APR.

Remember game and fish doesn't manage quality but mange quantity. Seems to me they failed.
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I agree. If WY is making changes for quantity I'm not sure what APR's do to increase quantity.

I remember back in the 80's when Colorado had APR's with otc / gen tags every crab claw 4 pt was getting shot. I would have rather seen those that wanted a meat buck to harvest a young deer and let some of the 4 pt bucks get another year or two on them. CO's quality came back after they eliminated otc/gen deer tags and limited the tag numbers in all units. I know that idea doesn't' sit well with the WY residents tho.

As I have mentioned in previous posts, the harder it is for a NR to obtain a tag the more effort/resources they will put into that hunt and they will be putting more pressure on those top end bucks. They will take more time off work, get more friends/family to help, they will likely spend more time scouting ahead of time, etc.

20-30 years ago there were likely a lot more than 350 NR's in G and the quality was better. Those guys back then probably shot a great buck if they bumped into one but probably didn't put as much into it since they could go back every couple years and try again. Now when guys draw a G tag, they pullout all the stops.
 
As said before non resident tags get cut before resident tags.

Once resident tags start getting whacked i see 90/10 really taking shape which will put a good hurt on non-resident tags.

I will do my part as a resident and wont hunt region G. whippy doooo
 
SS! said:
When the deer come back and they will, it’s going to be amazing deer hunting for residents.
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To what level? Thats the million-dollar question. Looking back at the last 35 years there is solid evidence that while this herd can and does see consecutive years of solid herd growth after a year of substantial decline, those peaks never quite get back to the prior peak.
In '91 there were 59000 deer in the wyo range herd. Then a huge winter kill. By 2000 it got back to a new peak of 49000 animals. Then a bad winter kill in 2001-02. Gets back to new peak in 2010 of 39000. Never exceeds this for the next 6 years. Then another bad winter kill in 16-17. Count drops to 30000. Stays there through 2022. Then an enormous winter kill, count drops to 11,000.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the next peak be no greater than 20000. But who knows for sure?

Are there any examples in any western state of sustained long term (20-30 yrs) mule deer population levels staying stable or growing?
 
SDBugler said:
I agree. If WY is making changes for quantity I'm not sure what APR's do to increase quantity.

I remember back in the 80's when Colorado had APR's with otc / gen tags every crab claw 4 pt was getting shot. I would have rather seen those that wanted a meat buck to harvest a young deer and let some of the 4 pt bucks get another year or two on them. CO's quality came back after they eliminated otc/gen deer tags and limited the tag numbers in all units. I know that idea doesn't' sit well with the WY residents tho.

As I have mentioned in previous posts, the harder it is for a NR to obtain a tag the more effort/resources they will put into that hunt and they will be putting more pressure on those top end bucks. They will take more time off work, get more friends/family to help, they will likely spend more time scouting ahead of time, etc.

20-30 years ago there were likely a lot more than 350 NR's in G and the quality was better. Those guys back then probably shot a great buck if they bumped into one but probably didn't put as much into it since they could go back every couple years and try again. Now when guys draw a G tag, they pullout all the stops.
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Game and fish has several theories on APR. Stronger buck to doe ratio. let the little guys grow thus more breeding. Its a long list. not a hard document to find.

I personally like APR. A particular unit ran it for years. Lot of solid bucks were around. Biggest issue i saw is nicer bucks fed along the highway and was a easy jab for the bowhunters. Once APR went away this unit seemed to go to hell. Im sure other factors come into play why things crashed
 
If you want to play the game you’re going to have to move to WY it looks like 👍🏼
 
mulecreek said:
To what level? Thats the million-dollar question. Looking back at the last 35 years there is solid evidence that while this herd can and does see consecutive years of solid herd growth after a year of substantial decline, those peaks never quite get back to the prior peak.
In '91 there were 59000 deer in the wyo range herd. Then a huge winter kill. By 2000 it got back to a new peak of 49000 animals. Then a bad winter kill in 2001-02. Gets back to new peak in 2010 of 39000. Never exceeds this for the next 6 years. Then another bad winter kill in 16-17. Count drops to 30000. Stays there through 2022. Then an enormous winter kill, count drops to 11,000.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the next peak be no greater than 20000. But who knows for sure?

Are there any examples in any western state of sustained long term (20-30 yrs) mule deer population levels staying stable or growing?
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Agree 100%.
I don’t recall a bad winter kill in 01-02 though. The winter of 09-10 was terrible on a lot of the region G deer. Didn’t affect H herds as much. Worst I saw besides the 91 and 92. But yes I agree it seems like it never comes back 100%
 
SS! said:
Agree 100%.
I don’t recall a bad winter kill in 01-02 though. The winter of 09-10 was terrible on a lot of the region G deer. Didn’t affect H herds as much. Worst I saw besides the 91 and 92. But yes I agree it seems like it never comes back 100%
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2001 count was 45000. 2002 was 31000. Im assuming that was due to winter kill.
 
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Bookhead said:
Looks like they are proposing cutting g and h again and implementing a 4 point or better antler restriction. Damn times is gettin' hard for the NR
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Looks like it’s time for a point system for residents. The demand way outweighs the supply. 4pt or better will definitely be a good implementation. I wish Utah would have adopted this. There was talks on a handful of units and it got scrapped.
 
wstrntines said:
Looks like it’s time for a point system for residents. The demand way outweighs the supply. 4pt or better will definitely be a good implementation. I wish Utah would have adopted this. There was talks on a handful of units and it got scrapped.
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how so? Are you basing this off success rate? Post hunt survey? Or did you just wake up and decide to post a stupid idea.
 
SS! said:
To be fair I was doing a lot of drugs in that time period. But I honestly don’t remember a bad winter that year. @nontypical do you remember?

Me looking at winter range bucks pre 2004:

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I seem to recall a winter around that timeframe that was the most severe I had experienced. I moved here in Jan of '97. Snow melt coming off the divide was significant. Flooded pits!
 
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From the numbers above, there’s approximately 70,000 1 & 2 pt elk holders and almost as many deer pts holders. With pt creep, wonder how many of those folks will never draw. Especially if we can ever get 90/10…
 
APR's don't bother me either - I have no problem eating my tag if I don't find a worthy animal. I don't have to "kill something" to have a successful hunt. I can't even imagine hunting some areas like G where you backpack in several miles and than shoot and have to pack out a forky or 3 pt - I'm getting too old for that. I want something on the wall to remind me of the pain and sore muscles!

As far as deer numbers go, there are only only three certainties in this world - death, taxes and ever dwindling game populations.
 
Most of you don't remember. There was a really bad winter in the early 80's too. I think it was 82-83, but might have been the following winter. That was the last winter that really hammered things here in Eastern WY. The winter of 22-23 really didn't have much impact here. That one in the early 80's was misery.
 
ICMDEER said:
Most of you don't remember. There was a really bad winter in the early 80's too. I think it was 82-83, but might have been the following winter. That was the last winter that really hammered things here in Eastern WY. The winter of 22-23 really didn't have much impact here. That one in the early 80's was misery.
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Yes, it was 82/83 in central Wy. It took the deer 10 years to come back, but when they did, the bucks were bigger than ever. It lasted around 10-12 years and then the population tanked here and never been the same since.
 
SS! said:
how so? Are you basing this off success rate? Post hunt survey? Or did you just wake up and decide to post a stupid idea.
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It’s pretty simple if you think about it, decreasing non resident quotas, out of control increasing non resident prices. At some point there is a tipping point to where Wyoming doesn’t become worth it because the product is no longer worth it. Resident prices will have to go up at some point and if you keep cutting tags from non residents the revenue has to be made up somewhere. The writing is on the wall Wyoming cannot keep guaranteeing over the counter tags. And if the Biden administration gets their way on these green energy projects and doesn’t change location on some of these sites, well over 4 million acres of winter range is going to be inaccessible to deer and elk. That’s going to take a toll on every western state. Deer and elk can’t eat food when the land is stacked with solar panels and fenced off. You can’t manufacture more land. The great thing is TRCP is trying to get them to change location on some of these sites. Bottom line you are getting a point system with the decisions Wyoming is making. Fight it as long as you can. I would but it’s going to happen.
 
Everyone calling for resident hunting to become limited entry should have to show some research or studies that prove limiting buck harvest increases populations... units in our own state with LE tags don't even increase the numbers! I promise there's much bigger issues facing these deer then resident hunters shooting bucks. I encourage everyone to get onto the BLM website and push for more designation of winter range/migration routes. While there put a comment in for the proposed 20,000 acres of industrial solar development. Limited entry resident tags are NOT the solution.
 
I think a 1 by 13 point restriction for about 3 years would help the buck ratio and put a few nicer bucks on the mountain :)


The 4-point restriction is a joke.
 
elkhunter81 said:
Not that I disagree, but i think this is what the Non Residents are saying. Why cut the NR tags if it wont help the herd.
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Exactly!!!

if there were 10,000 residents hunting G and H and only 2 NR tags they would still ask for NR tag cuts because the NR's are depleting the quantity/quality.
At some point in time the residents will need to have limited tags. Maybe not 5 years or 10 years but at some point even resident demand will exceed supply. Heck I remember when a LOT of Colorado was OTC.
 
wstrntines said:
It’s pretty simple if you think about it, decreasing non resident quotas, out of control increasing non resident prices. At some point there is a tipping point to where Wyoming doesn’t become worth it because the product is no longer worth it. Resident prices will have to go up at some point and if you keep cutting tags from non residents the revenue has to be made up somewhere. The writing is on the wall Wyoming cannot keep guaranteeing over the counter tags. And if the Biden administration gets their way on these green energy projects and doesn’t change location on some of these sites, well over 4 million acres of winter range is going to be inaccessible to deer and elk. That’s going to take a toll on every western state. Deer and elk can’t eat food when the land is stacked with solar panels and fenced off. You can’t manufacture more land. The great thing is TRCP is trying to get them to change location on some of these sites. Bottom line you are getting a point system with the decisions Wyoming is making. Fight it as long as you can. I would but it’s going to happen.
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I disagree. Montana general deer hasn’t been “worth it” for over a decade and yet they sell out every year. Wyoming quality is far superior to most states. Take another hard look at those preference points tables above. Fact is we could cut all nonresident tags but 25% and raise the tag prices another 50% and there would still be multi year waits. Capitalism is a b!tch when you want something that is in low supply. All this nonsense of what will happen to us residents when x,y or z happens is just frustrations by people who can no longer get tags that they feel they somehow deserve in a state they don’t even live in.
 
elkhunter81 said:
Not that I disagree, but i think this is what the Non Residents are saying. Why cut the NR tags if it wont help the herd.
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Hunt quality for residents. When less bucks are available, residents want a better chance at the available bucks.

Simple.
 
I laugh because there hundreds of thousands of miles public not in g/h for non residents to hunt. I’ll gladly enough the chance to hunt Wyoming by applying every year
 
Pinlard said:
I disagree. Montana general deer hasn’t been “worth it” for over a decade and yet they sell out every year. Wyoming quality is far superior to most states. Take another hard look at those preference points tables above. Fact is we could cut all nonresident tags but 25% and raise the tag prices another 50% and there would still be multi year waits. Capitalism is a b!tch when you want something that is in low supply. All this nonsense of what will happen to us residents when x,y or z happens is just frustrations by people who can no longer get tags that they feel they somehow deserve in a state they don’t even live in.
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Montana hunts deer in the rut the quality shows just like it shows in Colorado. Your argument is cherry picked off topic and null and void. At some point a product is no longer worth a high price when its quality goes down that’s basic level economics. Wyoming cannot afford it if they continue down their path of non resident price wars and tag cuts. Their residents will pay the price in terms of a point system if they continue the way they are going.
 
Muleyaddict63! said:
Everyone calling for resident hunting to become limited entry should have to show some research or studies that prove limiting buck harvest increases populations... units in our own state with LE tags don't even increase the numbers! I promise there's much bigger issues facing these deer then resident hunters shooting bucks. I encourage everyone to get onto the BLM website and push for more designation of winter range/migration routes. While there put a comment in for the proposed 20,000 acres of industrial solar development. Limited entry resident tags are NOT the solution.
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Your right Bucks don't have fawns. Thats not what we are talking about. What happens when you kill more Bucks than are being born. You end up with a herd with very few good Bucks if any. It's like living with in your budget. Something our Government knows nothing about. Hunters need to be cut back with the Deer numbers you have. Simple math really.
 
BuzzH said:
Hunt quality for residents. When less bucks are available, residents want a better chance at the available bucks.

Simple.
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Not that I disagree with this statement or its principle, but when I was referring to the statement that we need this to help "the herd", I thought it meant mule deer herd not "wyoming resident herd".
 
elkhunter81 said:
Not that I disagree with this statement or its principle, but when I was referring to the statement that we need this to help "the herd", I thought it meant mule deer herd not "wyoming resident herd".
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Bucks are, in fact, part of the herd.
 
Smallbuckhunter said:
Why not shut g and h down for all deer hunting for 2 years. That would save deer. Nobody has said that yet (that I have seen)
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Plenty of residents said that last year at the commission and season setting meetings, the place where it actually matters, not on the internet. But when it comes down to biology, I will continue to believe Gary Frahlich who has been studying western wy deer for over 30yrs, and is far more knowledgeable on what needs to be done than keyboard warriors
 
SS! said:
To be fair I was doing a lot of drugs in that time period. But I honestly don’t remember a bad winter that year. @nontypical do you remember?

Me looking at winter range bucks pre 2004:

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I do not remember that as being a bad winter. I'll get in touch with Gary and see what he has to say when I get the chance. Pretty dang busy.
 
ICMDEER said:
Most of you don't remember. There was a really bad winter in the early 80's too. I think it was 82-83, but might have been the following winter. That was the last winter that really hammered things here in Eastern WY. The winter of 22-23 really didn't have much impact here. That one in the early 80's was misery.
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Seems like 83-84 to me, Jim. I remember 78-79, 83-84, and 92-93 as the worst ones from last century.
 
BuzzH said:
Hunt quality for residents. When less bucks are available, residents want a better chance at the available bucks.

Simple.
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if i've learned anything on the idaho forum this is the most offensive statement ever made on MM
 
Muleyaddict63! said:
Everyone calling for resident hunting to become limited entry should have to show some research or studies that prove limiting buck harvest increases populations... units in our own state with LE tags don't even increase the numbers! I promise there's much bigger issues facing these deer then resident hunters shooting bucks. I encourage everyone to get onto the BLM website and push for more designation of winter range/migration routes. While there put a comment in for the proposed 20,000 acres of industrial solar development. Limited entry resident tags are NOT the solution.
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Then why do they keep cutting NR tags? Reduce resident permits for 3 or 5 years and see what happens. There would be more bucks on the landscape. More bucks better the hunt.
 
According to Gary, fawn loss from Dec '01 to April of '02 was 45%. That's just for those 4 months, not the entire year. Adult losses were also substantial, but hot as high as fawn mortality.

At that time, I wasn't really going to the winter ranges for video and photography. We still had lots of deer in the desert country, and I was spending a lot of time in 101 and 102, and other desert country. Of course, that was back when we actually had deer.

Still, I don't recall that winter being particularly bad.
 
This is a stupid debate, all mule deer hunts should be 4 point minimum and tag reductions do mean less deer get killed. and less deer killed mean more deer alive . end of story. this holds true for bucks as well, the less you kill the more you have. go figure

If killing dink bucks is your deal then why are you on a forum titled monster muleys. let them grow up and shoot them later for Christ's sake.
 
In a 4 pt hunt does that mean that the bad genes of a 7 year old 2x3 gets the does. maybe an alternating 4 pt only every other year and a management hunt every other .
 
wildfin said:
In a 4 pt hunt does that mean that the bad genes of a 7 year old 2x3 gets the does. maybe an alternating 4 pt only every other year and a management hunt every other .
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Who can say the 7 year old 2x3 isn't already getting the does? I watched a big 3x3 kick the living crap out of a bigger 5x5 and almost kill him. Or maybe that 2x3 regressed to that size. A 180s slick 4x4 I watched for years, turned into a 3x3 in two years.

I also watched a giant nontypical dominate his home ground and have a big harem of does two years in a row. Twenty five years later there has never been a buck look anything like him or nearly as big in that area.

A certain member on here thinks an entire deer area was genetically ruined because of two years of 4 pt APR. The real truth is maybe by making this area limited quota, the harvest has shifted to mature trophy deer because it's pretty much an OIL area to draw. Hunter are self-imposing 4 pt APR in many highly sought after LQ areas.
 
mulecreek said:
Largely increased. Elk are awesome critters. MD are a bunch of finicky pu$$ies.
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I agree with gritted teeth, I love mule deer and I've watched their numbers decline the whole time I've hunted out west while watching elk numbers in most of those same areas increase. Don't get wrong, I love elk hunting but just not as much as mule deer hunting and I think we've traded our deer for elk in many areas and it just doesn't get talked about as much as I think it should. This is just one of many issues that has hunters fighting with each other but at the end of the day the only thing that fixes most of our issues is more animals on the landscape and I'm in favor of anything that does that.
 
IMO, the last 40 years have been a great time to be an elk and a shitty time to be a mule deer. I don’t think it’s a management issue but more all the environmental factors that dictate what species thrive and what species don’t are working in favor of elk and against MD. I don’t buy for a second if we put the hammer down on elk populations we would see robust MD populations in those same areas. It not an either or scenario.
 
mulecreek said:
IMO, the last 40 years have been a great time to be an elk and a shitty time to be a mule deer. I don’t think it’s a management issue but more all the environmental factors that dictate what species thrive and what species don’t are working in favor of elk and against MD. I don’t buy for a second if we put the hammer down on elk populations we would see robust MD populations in those same areas. It not an either or scenario.
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You could be right but I wouldn't mind seeing some studies conducted to prove that theory but once again, we'd have hunters pitted against hunters depending on if you prefer to chase elk or mule deer. I've just been amazed at how many 6 point elk I've seen/taken in comparison to 4 point mule deer, all while chasing 4 point mule deer. Extremely small sample size but my opportunities at seeing/taking elk have increased a ton on some prime Western CO mule deer country.
 
Years ago, elk from the units west of highway 430 south of Rock Springs began migrating to the east (this is now elk unit 124). G&F didn't want elk in that area, so they came out with a proposal to hunt area 124 with a general tag; any elk. The public said NO. G&F henceforth called the unit 124 elk the "petition herd". I don't know why. Lots of opposition to that proposal, so G&F backed down and made 124 a LQ unit. In 1993, unit 124 elk had 5 bull tags and 40 cow/calf tags.

In 1993, deer unit 102 was three separate units: 102, 103, 104. 101 was still 101. G&F grouped all 4 units together and offered 500 tags for any deer. This was down from 1,000 tags for the 4 units in 1989. I believe when G&F first made these units LQ, there were 1250 tags the first year. I drew a LEFTOVER.

In 1995 or '96, G&F combined deer units 102, 103, and 104 into one unit-102. They offered 350 tags in '96 for 101/102 antlered deer. By '99, G&F had separated 101 and 102. 100 tags for 101, and 250 for 102; antlered deer. Though those tag numbers increased somewhat for both units off and on for the next few years, the decline in numbers overall was steady. It coincided with more elk being in 124. In 2016, 101 offered 25 tags; down from a high of 125, and 102 was down to 200 tags. Last season, 102 offered 150 tags. 101 has remained at 25.

Elk unit 124 now offers 70 tags for any elk, and 100 cow/calf tags. A slow but steady increase. Elk occupy most of the unit; even the open desert and especially on the mine properties, where they can't be hunted.

Seems like elk proliferation has had an effect on mule deer. Just my opinion, of course, but I heard the same from a warden who was set to retire when I had a 57 antelope tag a few years ago. We chatted for quite a bit, and his opinion was that the elk had taken over to the detriment of mule deer. I've noticed the abundance of elk in many desert areas where elk were not present 35 years ago.

Sorry about the long post lol.
 
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nontypical said:
Years ago, elk from the units west of highway 430 south of Rock Springs began migrating to the east (this is now elk unit 124). G&F didn't want elk in that area, so they came out with a proposal to hunt area 124 with a general tag; any elk. The public said NO. G&F henceforth called the unit 124 elk the "petition herd". I don't know why. Lots of opposition to that proposal, so G&F backed down and made 124 a LQ unit. In 1993, unit 124 elk had 5 bull tags and 40 cow/calf tags.

In 1993, deer unit 102 was three separate units: 102, 103, 104. 101 was still 101. G&F grouped all 4 units together and offered 500 tags for any deer. This was down from 1,000 tags for the 4 units in 1989. I believe when G&F first made these units LQ, there were 1250 tags the first year. I drew a LEFTOVER.

In 1995 or '96, G&F combined deer units 102, 103, and 104 into one unit-102. They offered 350 tags in '96 for 101/102 antlered deer. By '99, G&F had separated 101 and 102. 100 tags for 101, and 250 for 102; antlered deer. Though those tag numbers increased somewhat for both units off and on for the next few years, the decline in numbers overall was steady. It coincided with more elk being in 124. In 2016, 101 offered 25 tags; down from a high of 125, and 102 was down to 200 tags. Last season, 102 offered 150 tags. 101 has remained at 25.

Elk unit 124 now offers 70 tags for any elk, and 100 cow/calf tags. A slow but steady increase. Elk occupy most of the unit; even the open desert and especially on the mine properties, where they can't be hunted.

Seems like elk proliferation has had an effect on mule deer. Just my opinion, of course, but I heard the same from a warden who was set to retire when I had a 57 antelope tag a few years ago. We chatted for quite a bit, and his opinion was that the elk had taken over to the detriment of mule deer. I've noticed the abundance of elk in many desert areas where elk were not present 35 years ago.

Sorry about the long post lol.
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Very cool to hear the history of that area and supports what I believe to be happening in many areas. I know this is far from the only thing/biggest thing working against mule deer but just something that I believe gets too little attention when these discussions arise.
 
nontypical said:
Elk occupy most of the unit; even the open desert and especially on the mine properties, where they can't be hunted.
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Where they are not supposed to be hunted, but most definitely are. Trust me on this one. :ROFLMAO:

Lots of what I write is opinion. In this rare occasion I can say this is fact.
 
nontypical said:
Years ago, elk from the units west of highway 430 south of Rock Springs began migrating to the east (this is now elk unit 124). G&F didn't want elk in that area, so they came out with a proposal to hunt area 124 with a general tag; any elk. The public said NO. G&F henceforth called the unit 124 elk the "petition herd". I don't know why. Lots of opposition to that proposal, so G&F backed down and made 124 a LQ unit. In 1993, unit 124 elk had 5 bull tags and 40 cow/calf tags.

In 1993, deer unit 102 was three separate units: 102, 103, 104. 101 was still 101. G&F grouped all 4 units together and offered 500 tags for any deer. This was down from 1,000 tags for the 4 units in 1989. I believe when G&F first made these units LQ, there were 1250 tags the first year. I drew a LEFTOVER.

In 1995 or '96, G&F combined deer units 102, 103, and 104 into one unit-102. They offered 350 tags in '96 for 101/102 antlered deer. By '99, G&F had separated 101 and 102. 100 tags for 101, and 250 for 102; antlered deer. Though those tag numbers increased somewhat for both units off and on for the next few years, the decline in numbers overall was steady. It coincided with more elk being in 124. In 2016, 101 offered 25 tags; down from a high of 125, and 102 was down to 200 tags. Last season, 102 offered 150 tags. 101 has remained at 25.

Elk unit 124 now offers 70 tags for any elk, and 100 cow/calf tags. A slow but steady increase. Elk occupy most of the unit; even the open desert and especially on the mine properties, where they can't be hunted.

Seems like elk proliferation has had an effect on mule deer. Just my opinion, of course, but I heard the same from a warden who was set to retire when I had a 57 antelope tag a few years ago. We chatted for quite a bit, and his opinion was that the elk had taken over to the detriment of mule deer. I've noticed the abundance of elk in many desert areas where elk were not present 35 years ago.

Sorry about the long post lol.
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I do not know the history of this unit very well, but I have hunted deer in what is now 101 and 102. I remember being surprised by the number of elk that we saw in 101, but I also remember seeing a number of feral horses. I’d like to know how the population (number) of feral horses fits into this story?
 
BuzzH said:
I'll try to keep that in mind, I was so lazy last year I only hunted about 50-60 days.
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60 days for deer? That's about every possible day between all the optimal units and weapons in G/H. Most are only open 9/1-9/30 for mule deer.
 
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SDBugler said:
60 days for deer?
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No, maybe 30 for deer. I hunted all but 1 day in the month of November, barely missed a day in December, even hunted Christmas day. Probably half of October.

I'm probably sand bagging at only 60 days hunting as well.
 
My point is that you can't compare yourself as a R the same as a NR. The NR's don't have the option to go hunt another general unit if we don't harvest in G or H. We are limited to the units in G or the units in H.
So don't say that you hunted harder than others since you didn't hunt 50-60 days in unit G or unit H.

If you want to brag about how many days you hunted last year for multiple species in multiple units in multiple states, then go ahead and start a new thread related to that topic. (but 50-60 really isn't all that many days)
 
SDBugler said:
My point is that you can't compare yourself as a R the same as a NR. The NR's don't have the option to go hunt another general unit if we don't harvest in G or H. We are limited to the units in G or the units in H.
So don't say that you hunted harder than others since you didn't hunt 50-60 days in unit G or unit H.

If you want to brag about how many days you hunted last year for multiple species in multiple units in multiple states, then go ahead and start a new thread related to that topic. (but 50-60 really isn't all that many days)
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Right, I know about 4 people that hunt more than 2 solid months a season that have full time jobs.

How many people do you know that have 6-10 weeks of paid vacation a year?
 
BuzzH said:
Right, I know about 4 people that hunt more than 2 solid months a season that have full time jobs.

How many people do you know that have 6-10 weeks of paid vacation a year?
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I don’t get any paid time off but I take time off for hunting. In 2023 I took about 7 weeks off work to go hunting.
There are many people like you and me that take significant time to hunt or scout.
 
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