Wyoming and Feds Reach Wolf Agreement

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mightyhunter

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The Billings Gazette is reporting that the State of Wyoming and the federal government have reached an agreement on the status of the wolf in Wyoming. The agreement will need to approved by the state legislature. The agreement includes the trophy zones and predator zones that wyoming has pushed for over the years. There are still some unresolved matters that include the following:

1. proposed legislation advanced by Representative Lummis to limit any eco-elite challenges to the agreement;

2. The outcome of the Malloy "wolf rider" legislation challenge that was argued in front of Judge Malloy on July 26th, 2011.
 
Until Malloy and the rest of the Federal Court System is taken completely out of the equation to make decisions on stuff involving the wolf and grizzly status, we are screwed IMHO!!!
 
Topgun, I appreciate your pessimism. However, this is an important step. Unless the ESA is repealed, the court system will always be involved in this process with the grizzly bear and the wolf. Also, bear in mind that if Malloy tosses the wolf rider, we will go back to the status quo before the rider. The basis for that status quo and the relisting of the gray wolf, was the fact that Wyoming had not reached an agreement that allowed the delisting of the wolf. Although, the agreement has to go through the comment stage and the state legislature has to approve it, we may well be on the way. I am gratified that this took place before Malloy rules on the "wolf rider".
 
Ive been following this crap throughout idaho, montana and wyoming for a while. It seems to be one big pissing match. Its also a great insight to just how screwed up, disfunctional, and dissconected from retime issues the goverment and court systems really are.
 
MH---I would call it being realistic, rather than pessimistic! It's a great step forward, but looking at the facts I fail to understand your last comment when it doesn't really matter when Malloy can still rule like everyone figures he will and scuttle everything again. I hate to say that people should violate anything with my career background, but I think it's about time that the western states Governors tell Malloy to go pizz up a rope and go ahead with the hunts this year. If not, pretty soon there will be nothing left but wolves and grizzlies in most of the ecosystem out there!
 
Exactly, and that's why the Feds at all levels need to be told in no uncertain terms to butt out of states rights on this type of stuff, as well as the illegal BS intervention going on down on the AZ border. When the Feds start putting signs up like they have down there advising our own residents not to go in those areas due to illegal drug and human trafficking, IMO it's time to put the military on the entire border and shoot to kill on site anyone who violates our border period!!! It was an affront to all Americans to have the Mexican President address a joint session of our Congress in DC and tell us how we should treat these activities. DC is now as corrupt as that whole country down there and it's getting worse every day!!!
 
What I meant by the comment was this. Most judges rule anyway they want in a case. Many determine an outcome and later develope legal reasoning for that decision. Sad but true.If Malloy tosses the "wolf rider", you have to ask what actually will be accomplished. His reason for relisting the wolf the last time, and ending the proposed hunts in Idaho and Montana, involved the fact that wolf populations could not be delisted in Idaho and Montana without Wyoming being delisted too. It was his reasoning that the population was a single population that couldn't be divided by the geographical lines of each state. That may be a simplistic summary but it reveals the technicality he utilized the last time. If a few hurdles are overcome by Wyoming (legislative approval, comment periods, etc.)that technicality disappears.
On a final note, if Malloy tosses the "wolf rider" more wolves will be killed as a result. That will be a message sent by masses to the judiciary and the pro wolf factions in federal government to pizz up a rope.
 
Well said TOPGUN! Its a real shame the things this country is doing to itself. Pretty soon you won't be able to wipe you .ss without a permit or act of congress.
 
We need to start all over. And it starts at the top. In Washington DC. Thay have sold us down the river. And we are sinking fast. The corruption starts at the top and trickles all the way down. Should of told the Mexican President U have 30 days to clean it up. Or we will. We should close that border up so tight. That a mouse couldnt cross.
 
Judge Malloy has upheld the "wolf rider" begrudingly stating that the same was constitutional. This combined with the Wyoming settlement is a great piece of news.
 
It has been a long time coming and we still have a lot of hurdles to overcome; however, you can not help but be thankful for today's events.

I also saw that Representative Lummis was able to keep the rider in tact in the House budget process.

Hopefully, all sportsmen will take the time to email Governor Matt Mead and thank him and Steve Ferrell for getting us to this point. We never could have gotten here without Governor Dave as well. Letters to the editors will also be a great way to sound off.

After this, we need to get grizzly bears once again off the list as they are fully recovered as well. That fight will make the wolves look easy, but I believe we can prevail as well. Just how bad do we want the victory!
 
+5 Mike!

Ya got any point of contact info for letters/Email fo support/appreciation to those fellow's ya mentioned Bob?

Thanks

Robb
 
BenHuntn---I ate crow on this thread because I really felt that Malloy would rule the other way based on all his previous rulings. BuzzH is probably eating the whole flock right now because he stated more than once in the Forums during our debates that Wyoming would never get what they wanted and to throw in the cards and go the route of the other states. I'm glad he was wrong, but I hope he is'nt disappointed it went this way and that soon we can start shooting the SOBs! As SMOKESTICK just mentioned; now it's time to start working on the griazzly that is also completely out of control in the ecosystem!
 
Topgun I am elated that we stuck to our guns and got the job done. For how long is anybodies guess. Good day sir
 
Benhuntn,

I can tell you two things I wont be doing this year in Wyoming, buying a wolf tag and hunting wolves.

Wyoming still isnt out of the woods on this deal, not by a long shot. Theres many a slip twixt a cup and a lip.

I find it odd that you think "sticking to our guns" is a victory for Wyoming, its wildlife, and its hunters when we should have been hunting wolves in Wyoming for the last 10 years already.

Wyoming has created one hell of mess that they still arent out of...I'd be cautious of waving the "victory" flag just yet.
 
I guess a bunch of us will just have to continue to disagree on this one with you BuzzH. I believe you stated more than once that this dual plan would never go through and it has happened. It may take a little longer to finalize season structures and such, but Wyoming will be right there with the other states in the next year or so, legally wacking away at these four legged killing machines. Wyoming didn't create any mess. The Feds, antis, and courts did, but if the courts stay out of this from here on out the Wyoming hunters, minus you I guess, will get the problem taken care of.
 
Topgun,

You're flat fuggin' wrong, Wyoming has been the cause of this whole debacle since delisting was proposed.

MT and ID wouldnt have had to go through all the BS they did if not for Wyoming, thats just a simple fact.

You can keep living in dream land where you blame it on anti's, the feds, and courts. Unlike you, I've been involved in this whole thing since the draft EA and EIS process. I know what delayed delisting and state control for 10 years...WYOMING.

You can also count on more court cases in regard to WY's "plan", its the last place that the "anti's" have a legal foothold. They've lost ID and MT.

Dont forget that there is no final plan in Wyoming yet...its all proposed at this point. Nothing has "passed".

As to your comment regarding Wyoming hunters "taking care of the problem"...good luck with that. They've sat back and allowed the AG/Cattle interests in this state to run rough shod over them forever. The precise reason they've not had a wolf season the last 10-11 years and why they'll be last to have one (if they ever do).
 
You may think that it is not a victory yet, and that we caused hardships for MT,ID, but ny not goving in to the feds for the last 10 years may have litigation costs but we didn't have the expence of trapping, and damage cost, that where associated with the wolves for ten years. The fedreal goverment did, with our taxes and all the tree hugging liberals that forced them on us in the first place.

In my opinion they could stay on the endangerd speicies list forever if the liberals would foot the bill for maintaining them 100%, in compensation for land owners, wildlife agencies investigations in poachings, areal counts, destruction of problem wolves, loss of revenue to outfitters and the states in fewer licenes given out accounting in the millions of dollers a year for all areas.

moseley middleton
 
Maybe MT and ID should sue Wyoming for delaying delisting.

I find nothing redeeming with the way WY has put the screws to MT and ID...as well as the hunters in this state.
 
We know your feelings and great expertise on this matter Buzz, as we've heard it over and over and over! It's not the fault of Wyoming that the courts initially ruled that all the states were to be treated together on this. That's just the way it worked out and you can blame Wyoming all you want, but the facts are that each state is different. If the Feds would quit meddling in state's right, this situation and the illegal border crossing situation in AZ, as well as a lot of other crappola wouldn't be happening. The next fight will be delisting the friggin grizzly and it will be interesting to see what kind of plans are drawn up to get them back down to workable numbers.
 
Topgun,

You're dead wrong...try some reading comprehension. The courts didnt decide $hit regarding all 3 states being linked together.

That was decided and agreed to in the DEIS as well as FEIS by all three states before reintroduction even happened. Try opening your ears and listening instead of talking out your a$$ about things you've not a clue about.

The courts didnt get involved until Wyoming threw ID and MT under the bus with their unacceptable plan. The language was more than clear that ALL three states had to have an acceptable plan...WY never has, and still doesnt.

There is nothing complicated about what was agreed to, WY has been fully responsible for the last 10 years of delayed delisting. Not the wolf huggers, not the antis, and not the courts...its fully on Wyoming.

I suggest you educate yourself on the issue instead of popping off a bunch of BS about courts, anti's, etc. You're just flat wrong.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-11 AT 08:40AM (MST)[p]
You're a fine one to keep talking about reading comprehension! I've told you more than once than I'm familiar with the way the three state deal for introduction was to be set up. I know exactly what you're talking about and it was agreed upon that each state would have an approved plan. The big mistake was not made by Wyoming representatives. It was made when the Feds started the friggin introduction before everything was settled and all three state plans were approved! It wasn't the fault of Wyoming that their plan wasn't accepted. What can you not understand about that? You keep blaming Wyoming for screwing the whole thing up when all they did was keep fighting to get what they wanted for their state. Why the heck should they agree to something to appease other states or the Feds just to satisfy what others wanted? Maybe Idaho and Montana should have used a little clout and told the Feds to agree to the Wyoming plan so all three states could get the ball rolling. No, the courts stepped in just like I stated and stopped the other two states from their hunts because the court kept them all lumped together under the original plan. Malloy could just as easily allowed the two states to continue with their plans and hunts, but that was not on his agenda. Do you just agree to something even though you don't like it just to get rid of the argument? That is the easy way out and may have been what you and others think Wyoming should have done to make things go away, but there are some of us who stick to our guns and fight for what we think is right. Good for Wyoming for continuing what they felt was right for their state, whether you would have sunk their ship 10 years ago or not!!! When this is finalized I'll be able to shot a wolf any time I see one in the BigHorns. That would not have been possible if Wyoming would have given up and tossed in the white towel!
 
Buzz H is part of the problem not the solution. He is a f'n fed lover. He is like every other piece chit Fed lover. They carry their brains in there boots. He will never be happy with Wyoming politics and should just move to Montana or Colorado where his kind is bred. He is a piece of chit. He is a commie pinko fag.
 
I can disagree with people without resorting to name calling like that because it really lowers the conversation below an adult level. I guess what I'm saying is think it, but don't say it because IMHO a person loses ground when they start talking down on that level.
 
Buzz H blaming Wyoming for this mess is like saying a victim of rape was responsible for her attack because she was wearing a skirt that was to short.
The people responsible for this are USFWS, enviros, judge malloy, and the likes. Had Wyoming done everything that the other states did (uknow gave away the boat) judge Malloy would have found a reason to relist just like he did with grizzlies.
One thing I will agree with Buzz on is were far from over with this fight. We'll win it will just be a year or two and some more legislation snuck in on a rider.
 
I have had my disagreements with BuzzH on Bowsite also on this issue. We can agree to disagree. But name calling will NEVER further a viewpoint or enhance a point of view.

From my perspective, this is a federal issue tramples states rights.

I take a higher level view. The historic viewpoint was the states should be conformists to the fed and march to their beat, local consequences be damned. We can dispute the details and minutia of the wolf reintroduction an management (or lack there of).

The Endangered Species Act process is fundamentally flawed. It is dysfunctional. I don't have the exact stats in front of me, but if my memory serves, since inception, there have been around 1600 animals (and plants) placed under the endangered/protected species designation since it's inception in 1973. With all this protection and regulation, how many have come off of the list? Around 30. Protected or endangered status is used to stiffle or kill local and state interests. (And in some cases, national interests)

The endangered species designation has been used as a weapon by environmentalists via the political and legal systems to further their causes. (Not based upon ecology or science). I firmly believe they do not care about the animal or the plant, they are anti development and anti human.

Aother fine example- (Again, going off of memory on exact numbers). Before the endangered designation of the spotted owl, there were around 800 lumber mills in Oregon. Today, there are around 70. And the number of spotted owls is still declining! (Even with more habitat!) We have all paid with higher lumber costs for a bird which almost none have ever seen! And with no end in sight.

Here is a fine example of the federal govt in action. 20 years on the spotted owl and counting!

http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2011/02/make_this_call_in_the_wild_sho.html.

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back to wolves. I agree with BuzzH. This battle is not over. In the interest of not being labeled as a hypocrite. Politicians have become involved in a battle which has very little to do with science, ecology or biology anymore. More visits to the courtroom are in the future before anyone tags a wolf in Wyoming.

But some for some reason,(maybe it is wishful thing), I think Wyoming will ultimately prevail. Why? For some intagible reason, I have faith in Sec Salazar as a westerner. (I might be misguided!)

Go Wyoming!
 

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