WY Residents...time to cut a deal?

BuzzH

BuzzH

Long Time Member
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For the whining Residents on MM, is it about time to approach the outfitting lobby and cut a deal for 90-5-5 for pronghorn, deer, and elk(90 percent resident, 5% outfitter draw, and 5% DIY)?

I think its time...sick of listening to the high pitched NR screeching about anything that is favorable for Residents.

Won't be hard to do, Sy is just waiting for the phone call and green light. Many Residents are sick of the NR entitlement.

All it needs is a nudge from a few of the Resident hunters to get this thing done.

Thoughts?
 
junior said:
I get a kick out of the ball busting...and always the same guys it seems! Lmao
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Yeah, all we do is bust balls...how's that cut to 90-10 for sheep, moose, goat and bison treating you?

How did that happen?
 
I think 90/10 for deer, elk, and antelope is fair. But I also don't think it's unreasonable for us non residents to hope that the number of licenses allocated to us doesn't get cut in half. I sure don't think most non residents feel entitled. Maybe a very few, but the vast majority are grateful. This 90/5/5 idea is not a good idea and I think even Buzz would agree, as it's nothing more than outfitter welfare. And one last thing- in my opinion moose and sheep licenses should be 100% residents only.
 
I was against it until I saw what my odds were in utah for anything. .8% for a book cliffs archery tag with 16 points, completely random for mountain goats because they only give 1 non res tag in any units.... So the percentages wouldn't really hurt my feelings. I am still 100% against a outfitter welfare draw though. I wish they'd split G up into about 4 or 5 different units that way people like us (my dad that is a non resident) that doesn't care about the greys river, we might be able hunt together every once in a while close to my house.
 
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BuzzH said:
For the whining Residents on MM, is it about time to approach the outfitting lobby and cut a deal for 90-5-5 for pronghorn, deer, and elk(90 percent resident, 5% outfitter draw, and 5% DIY)?

I think its time...sick of listening to the high pitched NR screeching about anything that is favorable for Residents.

Won't be hard to do, Sy is just waiting for the phone call and green light. Many Residents are sick of the NR entitlement.

All it needs is a nudge from a few of the Resident hunters to get this thing done.

Thoughts?
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I am sorry you feel this way and have let the internet get you down. I think you, and maybe all of us as well, should try cutting down our social media and just get out and enjoy hunting, nature, and all the good things. Really I am not sure what could have prompted you to post this in this way, or leading you down the path of negativity towards seemingly all non residents broadly. Your efforts on conservation and on behalf of Wyoming are strong and I hope they remain so but you are really tilting at windmills a lot lately.


edit: I just saw the other thread and gagged a bit too. my comments still stand in general though about all non residents not sucking. But I concede some do, after all.
 
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mulecreek said:
When 7250 goes away is the time to pull the trigger.
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What’s The current climate on this since the comment period opened a month or so ago? WY is a great place and I’ve had some great hunts there over the years. I hope to have more in the future even if it’s less often.
 
Hunt_the_West said:
What’s The current climate on this since the comment period opened a month or so ago? WY is a great place and I’ve had some great hunts there over the years. I hope to have more in the future even if it’s less often.
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Not sure. I have gotten little feedback from the Commissioners I have spoken with. The G&F folks are fully on board. Clearly some Outfitters are supportive but I have spoken with many that are not. I think it will go through but could easily be wrong.
 
Yep, Buzz I remember a few days ago you were pretty proud of yourself for supporting DIY/OYO nonres by trying to defeat the fee doubling scheme by outfitters. You were pretty much fed up with the outfitter's campaign?

A lot of nonres were so impressed with you at that time and patted you on your back for your support....why such a dramatic change? Why screw over DIY/OYO hunters?

What's really sad is the 90/5/5 would decrease the current number of tags available to each and every nonres hunter that doesn't want to hunt with an outfitter by 3/4. Nonres tags would be cut so severely in the outfitter draw that most high demand limited tag units wouldn't even offer outfitter tags once tags are cut in 1/4 or 3/4. Why on Earth would outfitters want 90/5/5 if they would have fewer tags for their clients than they presently have status quo?

If nonres tags are cut in 3/4 it would mean most units would likely not even offer nonres tags and many units also wouldn't offer outfitter tags. Pref point creep would also rise out of control! Do you really think nonres would continue purchasing pref pts? Right now pref pt sales is easy $ for the WG&F.

What happens to the WG&F pref pt budget if only 1/4 of the current tags available in the draw? That would mean it would take 3-4x more years for nonres to draw these same tags. Why would nonres purchase pref pts if they likely will never draw high demand tags? The big loser would be the WG&F.

I am sure that the revenue losses by the WG&F would need to be picked up somewhere. My guess is that Wyo residents would need to pick up the revenue loss! All of this just for the sake of a few additional resident tags.
 
jims said:
Yep, Buzz I remember a few days ago you were pretty proud of yourself for supporting DIY/OYO nonres by trying to defeat the fee doubling scheme by outfitters. You were pretty much fed up with the outfitter's campaign?

A lot of nonres were so impressed with you at that time and patted you on your back for your support....why such a dramatic change? Why screw over DIY/OYO hunters?

What's really sad is the 90/5/5 would decrease the current number of tags available to each and every nonres hunter that doesn't want to hunt with an outfitter by 3/4. Nonres tags would be cut so severely in the outfitter draw that most high demand limited tag units wouldn't even offer outfitter tags once tags are cut in 1/4 or 3/4. Why on Earth would outfitters want 90/5/5 if they would have fewer tags for their clients than they presently have status quo?

If nonres tags are cut in 3/4 it would mean most units would likely not even offer nonres tags and many units also wouldn't offer outfitter tags. Pref point creep would also rise out of control! Do you really think nonres would continue purchasing pref pts? Right now pref pt sales is easy $ for the WG&F.

What happens to the WG&F pref pt budget if only 1/4 of the current tags available in the draw? That would mean it would take 3-4x more years for nonres to draw these same tags. Why would nonres purchase pref pts if they likely will never draw high demand tags? The big loser would be the WG&F.

I am sure that the revenue losses by the WG&F would need to be picked up somewhere. My guess is that Wyo residents would need to pick up the revenue loss! All of this just for the sake of a few additional resident tags.
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I'll put you down as a yes too.

Thanks!
 
BuzzH said:
For the whining Residents on MM, is it about time to approach the outfitting lobby and cut a deal for 90-5-5 for pronghorn, deer, and elk(90 percent resident, 5% outfitter draw, and 5% DIY)?

I think its time...sick of listening to the high pitched NR screeching about anything that is favorable for Residents.

Won't be hard to do, Sy is just waiting for the phone call and green light. Many Residents are sick of the NR entitlement.

All it needs is a nudge from a few of the Resident hunters to get this thing done.

Thoughts?
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That’s not very cash money of you!
As a NR, I am a bit sick of the whining as well.
90-10 for sheep, moose, etc is the way it should be. Maybe even %100-0. Dear lord, could you imagine the tears on that.
90-10 for DEA will be here sooner then later, is my guess. I would prefer to leave outfitter welfare out of it when it comes.

Edit to add: Remember that states are cutting tags, increase tag cost, and reducing draw odds for NR…….so the next time someone says we need to recruit and retain more hunters slap the **** out them for saying such dumb crap. If anything NR’s should be praying for hunter numbers to decrease.
 
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I would be more than happy yo pay more for my resident tags... But I don't think that will happen once WG&F starts making NR pay for a shed antler license while they are at it they could raise the NR fishing licenses... There is more ways to squeeze money from NR than just big game tags... And the time has come to start squeezing
 
I 'll be glad to be done with this points game when i draw my elk tag, no more feeding the state. I 'm fortunate to live in a state where we don't have the point game, and everyone has the same chance to draw, and if i don't draw a high demand bull hunt, i can still kill a cow, and be in the woods!!
 
jims said:
Wyo outfitters are wise enough to look at the current draw stats and realize that they will have fewer nonres clients with 90/5/5 than status quo!
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Riggghhhtttt....that's why Sy offered it up at the task force. They will cut that deal in 2 seconds flat.

You need to jump into reality and get with the program.
 
jims said:
Wyo outfitters are wise enough to look at the current draw stats and realize that they will have fewer nonres clients with 90/5/5 than status quo!
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Seriously man. They will take a guaranteed 25% of what is the current nonresident allotment. Not only would that allow them to keep similar numbers to what they currently have it would allow them to cater to the biggest money clients on a yearly basis without worrying if they will draw.

That would be bad for all involved.
 
BuzzH said:
Riggghhhtttt....that's why Sy offered it up at the task force. They will cut that deal in 2 seconds flat.

You need to jump into reality and get with the program.
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What does WY fish and game get out of the “deal” with the outfitters? And why would you ever support outfitters getting a by-right cut of licences, whether they be NR licences (for now) or not. Your cavalier words on this may come back to bite even you. Save your ammo for your better thought through and well reasoned testimony on the record when the time comes. You want all these internet forum fights and unprofessional and less than mature comments wars to be used to discredit you someday? It seems you don’t care and maybe you don’t. Not glad you have lowered yourself to the trolls getting under your skin lately. It’s too bad really.
 
Gosh, a couple ol drunks tell the Wyo taskforce what to do, that's one hell of a juice card! See ya guys in G!
 
What is 25% of current units that offer 1, 2 or even 4 total tags? Not many tags for both outfitters or all DIY/OYO hunters!

Sy and other outfitters better take a closer look at status quo vs 90/5/5 quotas before making rash decisions. I am sure it will be an eye opener. Status quo sounds pretty darn good even with a guarantee of 25% of tags after significant cuts.

I counted 48 nonres special elk nonres options that only offer 1 nonres tag with current quotas. There were 102 units with 4 or fewer nonres special tags. Take a close look at the 2022 draw stats and at how many limited elk units won't offer any outfitter or DIY/OYO draw tags once tags are split up with 90/5/5!

On top of that add on the fact that nonres landowner quotas are currently unlimited and taken off the top prior to the draw. Even with the current quotas there are some units (like unit 111 elk) that offer 0 nonres random tags because they are swallowed up by landowners! 25% sounds pretty good until you look at specific units and how few nonres tags are issued once split up.

I’m also certain Wyo land parcels that qualify for landowner tags will be a hot commodity bought up by wealthy nonres. These tags can be purchased each and every year with the current landowner tag system. How many Wyo res are in favor of wealthly nonres immigrating and moving to Wyo.....purchasing small parcels of land so they can purchase tags?

All of this just for the sake of a few additional res tags with 90/5/5 or 90/10?
 
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jims said:
What is 25% of current units that offer 1, 2 or even 4 total tags? Not many tags for both outfitters or all DIY/OYO hunters!

Sy and other outfitters better take a closer look at status quo vs 90/5/5 quotas before making rash decisions. I am sure it will be an eye opener. Status quo sounds pretty darn good even with a guarantee of 25% of tags after significant cuts.

I counted 48 nonres special elk nonres options that only offer 1 nonres tag with current quotas. There were 102 units with 4 or fewer nonres special tags. Take a close look at the 2022 draw stats and at how many limited elk units won't offer any outfitter or DIY/OYO draw tags once tags are split up with 90/5/5!

On top of that add on the fact that nonres landowner quotas are currently unlimited and taken off the top prior to the draw. Even with the current quotas there are some units (like unit 111 elk) that offer 0 nonres random tags because they are swallowed up by landowners! 25% sounds pretty good until you look at specific units and how few nonres tags are issued once split up.

I’m also certain Wyo land parcels that qualify for landowner tags will be a hot commodity bought up by wealthy nonres. These tags can be purchased each and every year with the current landowner tag system. How many Wyo res are in favor of wealthly nonres immigrating and moving to Wyo.....purchasing small parcels of land so they can purchase tags?

All of this just for the sake of a few additional res tags with 90/5/5 or 90/10?
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Non resident landowners draw from the non resident quota...and they have to purchase sizeable amounts of land and have their property qualify via animal use days.

I have no grievance with landowners who support the states wildlife getting tags every year.

Why would that be a problem for you, when your M.O. is suckering other NRs into using their points so you can draw every year?

It's only ok if you draw every year but not a NR landowner who supports our wildlife?

Sounds almost hypocritical...
 
Ultimately,once tags are split plus landowners take their chunk of tags on top of the pile prior to the draw there are 0 tags available for nonres in highly desired limited units that are currently available for nonres to hunt in Wyo. A major loss in opportunity for each and every nonres.

The loss in revenue with 90/5/5 or 90/10 will also need to be picked up by Wyo res in the form of license increases to achieve the same booming budget. Why would the WG&F double nonres special tag prices and then cut their wrists with 1/2 their potential revenue gains with 90/10 or 90/5/5. They could use that additional revenue to benefit wildlife habitat improvement projects and management strategies that will ultimately benefit Wyo wildlife?
 
jims said:
Why would the WG&F double nonres special tag prices and then cut their wrists with 1/2 their potential revenue gains with 90/10 or 90/5/5. They could use that additional revenue to benefit wildlife habitat improvement projects and management strategies that will ultimately benefit Wyo wildlife?
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Because the G&F did not double special tag prices, that was a recommendation by the Task Farce, that had no purpose other than to benefit outfitters. That extra revenue, quite frankly, is not needed currently and would work rather nicely making 90/5/5 revenue positive.
 
I appreciate everything any residents have done to protect the DIY hunter in WY and I really hope a few squeaky wheels don't halt that effort. I would love for my sons to experience what I've been able to on my WY hunts but such is life.
 
Being that I am from Utah, I am AGAINST the 90-5-5 split. I am not a fan of Outfitter welfare. I am all about NON RESIDENT hunters having a chance. Like I said, I am from Utah. I do NOT LIKE our split and the lack of tags on many units for NR hunters. I would be ticked too. I feel Utah needs 1 deer draw, since in reality there is not general unit. Making the split to a 85-15 is fine for me. Give NR a few more tags. I wouldnt even apply for utah when I see the odds.
If Wy goes that route, me and my 3 boys will be done applying. That is not worth applying for a once in a lifetime tag. I know that is only 3 of us. But that is reality for many people. We are all NON Res to other states. I wish they could all be the same odds/percentages.
 
I am in favor of 90/10 but not the outfitter set a side 90/5/5. I don't get offended by the people crying on the internet, the web creates many different personalities. You see people act differently when they are face to face, especially when you have a bunch of trolls hiding behind a fake name. After this winter the Wyoming game and fish department will need to cut nonresident quotas in G&H in half again... 200 tags for G and 300 for H would be about right.
 
accubond said:
I appreciate everything any residents have done to protect the DIY hunter in WY and I really hope a few squeaky wheels don't halt that effort. I would love for my sons to experience what I've been able to on my WY hunts but such is life.
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Agree to this. It is better if we all get a long and the states can use the non-resident money for habitat and game management.

Man people change over time, that's for sure. Can you imagine Buzz wants in bed with outfitters now? Just a short few years ago he was out there protecting DIY non-residents on all the forums saying it wasn't fair to slash quotas and change rules. Times change and people change I guess.
 
nripepi said:
Agree to this. It is better if we all get a long and the states can use the non-resident money for habitat and game management.

Man people change over time, that's for sure. Can you imagine Buzz wants in bed with outfitters now? Just a short few years ago he was out there protecting DIY non-residents on all the forums saying it wasn't fair to slash quotas and change rules. Times change and people change I guess.
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He is just annoyed as hell with some of the squeaky wheels on several of the forums. I have many Wyoming resident friends that are the same. Buzz isn't going to vote for outfitter welfare but he is making a point. The nonresident hunting community needs to be very aware that they need the residents that are fighting for them or at least siding with them on some important issues. Without those residents that are standing up for what is right, we will lose much more than we have.

As to those guys that are upset with the recent changes, do you all really think bitching on forums and pissing off more residents is going to solve your problems? Take your frustrations out in the right places and in the right way.
 
It is pathetic so many whine. As I am writing my reps telling them not to increase the NR price in the special. After I wrote in opposition of the 90/5/5….

Now I am pro BONUS points system with 100% random because the overwhelming majority will be helped by such a system.
 
DaveD said:
He is just annoyed as hell with some of the squeaky wheels on several of the forums. I have many Wyoming resident friends that are the same. Buzz isn't going to vote for outfitter welfare but he is making a point. The nonresident hunting community needs to be very aware that they need the residents that are fighting for them or at least siding with them on some important issues. Without those residents that are standing up for what is right, we will lose much more than we have.

As to those guys that are upset with the recent changes, do you all really think bitching on forums and pissing off more residents is going to solve your problems? Take your frustrations out in the right places and in the right way.
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This needed said, but it's BS what it took to get it out.

What do you or any other NR think it takes for a resident to stand up and oppose something that really doesn't affect them? I'll definitely think twice before I do it again. You guys see these jackwagons posting on here and stand idly by until Buzz, myself or another resident tells it like it's going to be from now on.

90/10 EDA is going to happen, when I don't have a clue. The push for it by residents increases every year and eventually those we elect will have to listen. Don't think Buzz is kidding about Sy either. We both keep more in contact with him than ever before. He's a resident too, with kids and grandkids hunting like myself. We may not agree on everything, but many things we do. We always use: residents here deserve 90/10 because most other states do it. He uses: outfitters deserve set-asides because many other states have them. Go figure.
 
As a NR, I would be much more understanding of a 90/10 if WY would get rid of the rule requiring a NR to hire an outfitter to hunt wilderness areas. Saying it’s safe for me to hike, backpack, fish, bird hunt, etc. without a guide is ok but as soon as I have a big game tag it’s illegal, is the dumbest rule in the west IMO.
 
Katoom said:
I am sorry you feel this way and have let the internet get you down. I think you, and maybe all of us as well, should try cutting down our social media and just get out and enjoy hunting, nature, and all the good things. Really I am not sure what could have prompted you to post this in this way, or leading you down the path of negativity towards seemingly all non residents broadly. Your efforts on conservation and on behalf of Wyoming are strong and I hope they remain so but you are really tilting at windmills a lot lately.


edit: I just saw the other thread and gagged a bit too. my comments still stand in general though about all non residents not sucking. But I concede some do, after all.
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Look at the other post where guys and b*tching calling names and making fun of residents. There are like 3 now where people are being dic@s about some small moves. Specifically the move to a 3 day head start for resident shed hunting and the move to bonus points.

Go see how a few of those guys acted in those threads and you will se why this is the response.

The best they do this right as residents are writing to oppose special increases etc.
 
jims said:
Ultimately,once tags are split plus landowners take their chunk of tags on top of the pile prior to the draw there are 0 tags available for nonres in highly desired limited units that are currently available for nonres to hunt in Wyo. A major loss in opportunity for each and every nonres.

The loss in revenue with 90/5/5 or 90/10 will also need to be picked up by Wyo res in the form of license increases to achieve the same booming budget. Why would the WG&F double nonres special tag prices and then cut their wrists with 1/2 their potential revenue gains with 90/10 or 90/5/5. They could use that additional revenue to benefit wildlife habitat improvement projects and management strategies that will ultimately benefit Wyo wildlife?
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Haha. The game and fish is not moving to increase those cost at all. That was the outfitters and the legislature. It has nothing to do with the game and fish. It is about creating a more exclusive tag for the wealthy outfitter clients.

The game and fish at no point asked for the increase. They have not presented any budget shortfalls, etc.
 
The problem, as I see it, is that some guys have zero idea what a few guys on the boards here at MM have done for conservation AND the DIY NR hunter in Wyoming!
Specifically Buzz and JM77!

I've been blessed to spend a little time with both and I've had several personal conversations and think I have a pretty good idea about what they're made of.

They're human and, like the rest of us, get tired of all the whining and biothching when it's been them who had carried the yoke while we sit back from afar and reap the benefit.

YES, they have an obligation to the resident hunters too. This shouldn't be that hard to understand but yet there are some NR's who feel totally entitled and that's the wrong approach as a nonresident IMHO!

I don't pretend to speak for them but rather say that some discussions have become uncivil and ridiculous in nature and I can hardly blame them for the gruff attitude right now!

God help us all,
Zeke
 
elks96 said:
Haha. The game and fish is not moving to increase those cost at all. That was the outfitters and the legislature. It has nothing to do with the game and fish. It is about creating a more exclusive tag for the wealthy outfitter clients.

The game and fish at no point asked for the increase. They have not presented any budget shortfalls, etc.
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Correct and further, if outfitters got their set aside of the NR pool, that bill would not have been introduced.

What the NR's don't realize is that something was going to give, either a large fee increase or 5 percent of their tags in an outfitter pool.

Again, the easiest route to take for a resident hunter would have been to give them 5% of the tags as a set aside, and gain another 10% for the Residents via 90/5/5.

There was nothing in it for me when I testified against outfitter set asides, flipping regular/special from 40/60 to 60/40, and the special fee increase that's now moving as HB200.

In fact, in testimony, Sy asked me why I would oppose a 5% set aside as, "It doesn't impact you as a NR". I told him it absolutely impacted me as I have friends and family that hunt here.

All that said, @jm77 is right, we put ourselves in difficult and uncomfortable situations when we lobby and advocate for NR hunters.

As much as it would suck for my friends and family to not have tags in Wyoming as often, with the smart remarks from NR's, its becoming easier and easier for me to do whatever it takes to get 90% of the tags for residents. Its on full display in these threads bunch of whining, crying, ungrateful NR turds that enjoy wayyyy higher tag allocations for themselves in their states of Residence. Our generosity in tag allocations has become NR entitlement, those days are over and the times, they are a changin'...

I can also travel to the States my NR friends and family live in to hunt with them just as easily (easier in the case of MT as can get OTC NR half priced elk and deer tags there).

All that leaves Residents like @jm77, @mulecreek, and others who are trying to come up with something tolerable, is a giant headache. A headache that is becoming increasingly not worth getting.

Like was stated, 90-10 is going to happen and I would venture to say sooner rather than later. A lot sooner if Residents decide to start compromising with outfitters and a set aside for them.
 
There are plenty of us NR's who have not said anything about Wyoming's changes, so it's unfair to paint us all with a broad brush.
My take is, none of us are entitled to hunt anywhere, and I for one am grateful for any chance that I get.
Forums like MM are great at pitting seemingly like minded passionate people against each other in ways that result in needless rage.
I celebrate anyone's opportunity to hunt in the great outdoors, regardless of where it is at and mostly I hope my grandkids get to experience at least some of the adventures I have been blessed with.
How's that for drinking Koolaid!;)
 
I can only imagine sy wanted to make a 90/5/5 deal to begin with because he knows 90/10 is coming so being guaranteed half those tags he would be ahead of the curve. 90/10 is coming like it or not
 
I'm sure ill get some crap for calling a spade a spade but....

As a NR I'm not in favor of the 90/10 for obvious reasons. Those reasons are selfish in motivation, as is the motivation for residents that support it. I understand, and am not mad at either. As far as residents advocating for NR, its appreciated.

I disagree with outfitter set aside though. I think it's wrong to take public resources (both game and wilderness) and let business exclude the public, and monetize the resource. Whether it's done by law or in monetary fashion, neither sits right with me. As it is now, a guy can plan and budget for the costs and not take a lifetime to get to hunt. It's expensive, sure, but it "feels" within reason for most. If it goes much further, people are going to be priced out.

A DIY hunter is what hunting is all about. Why we as hunters would try to penalize or handcuff a DIY guy is beyond me (I get why outfitters want to). I understand WY needs to be compensated fairly, and has to manage tag numbers. An outfitter set aside doesn't assist in, or accomplish any of that.
 
Buzz
As you know I'm a NR but I'm not whining and haven't been so please don't lump us all together. In fact, I would agree with a 90/10 spilt. That is about the average of what other states divy out. As some have mentioned already change IS going to happen eventually. (I honestly think the special fee increase will pass this year and then up next will be the D, E, A tag allocation change)

I'm not a fan of 90/5/5 though with the current wilderness restrictions. It is my understanding from something I read a long time back (and that info may not be true) that the wilderness restriction was a compromise to the outfitters in lieu of set aside quotas. So the 90/5/5 and the wilderness restrictions is a "double dipping" of outfitter welfare.
The 90/5/5 is pretty similar to what NM has and many NM residents on that forum have posted that they aren't fond of their set aside allocations.
Something that DIY residents should consider before jumping on any set aside allocation is that this will "encourage" more outfitters. As a result more and more private land will be tied up by outfitters and DIY residents that currently might have access to private land may get kicked out. Again, look at the abundance of outfitters in NM and all the private land that they have locked up.
One other issue with the 90/5/5 is that there are a lot of units that would only offer one NR tag. And so which pool gets the tag?

If WY does both the price increase AND the 90/10 or 90/5/5 then I personally think a LOT of NR's will burn their points and drop out since WY is the most expensive state to apply for / build points for. And with the odds of ever drawing a high quality tag I think NR's will look elsewhere at where the best value is for spending their money. I haven't done the math to compare if the special tag increase would cover the revenue lost by fewer tags issued to NR's. But I think there would also be significant revenue lost as the result of NR's not applying and paying for points.
The average NR applying for and building points for deer/elk/antelope currently spends $234 each year. When the odds get drastically cut, a lot of NR's will back out and go elsewhere leaving the residents to cover the revenue loss.
Yes, residents will get more opportunities but they will also likely need to ante up more for those tags.

Again, I'm not complaining and I'm not whining. And I agree that residents should get 90% of the D/E/A tags.
 
Jgill19 said:
I'm sure ill get some crap for calling a spade a spade but....

As a NR I'm not in favor of the 90/10 for obvious reasons. Those reasons are selfish in motivation, as is the motivation for residents that support it. I understand, and am not mad at either. As far as residents advocating for NR, its appreciated.

I disagree with outfitter set aside though. I think it's wrong to take public resources (both game and wilderness) and let business exclude the public, and monetize the resource. Whether it's done by law or in monetary fashion, neither sits right with me. As it is now, a guy can plan and budget for the costs and not take a lifetime to get to hunt. It's expensive, sure, but it "feels" within reason for most. If it goes much further, people are going to be priced out.

A DIY hunter is what hunting is all about. Why we as hunters would try to penalize or handcuff a DIY guy is beyond me (I get why outfitters want to). I understand WY needs to be compensated fairly, and has to manage tag numbers. An outfitter set aside doesn't assist in, or accomplish any of that.
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Not sure what you state you live in, but the Western States with the exception of Colorado, have 90-10, or less, splits between Resident and Non Resident allocations.

I don't think Residents wanting that same tag split in Wyoming is selfish at all. In fact I would call it completely in line and fair.
 
The TF/outfitters are holding this 5% increase in tags over the residents to get them to give into their demands for a set aside. Good on those who are seeing it for exactly what it is.

@BuzzH Motivations being selfish don't make them inherently wrong. Residents wanting 90/10 isn't out of line or unfair in my eyes.
 
I'm gonna have to rethink my application strategy... looks like I just need to become wealthy, problem solved...:ROFLMAO:

In all reality 10% is fair as it's the status quo these days... Can you imagine the fallout from Colorado going completely 90/10, You bet your ass I'd support it, it's just reciprocal love...
 
Is it really 90/10 if there are general elk and deer for residents? I think it is different than other states that don't have general tags and states that have transferable landowner tags. Just something to ponder?

I thank those residents that have supported DIY NRs in the past and future, just doesn't make a lot of sense for a resident to do so or for an outfitter if they get guaranteed 5%. Non-res DIY bring in the most money to G&F and have no voice, that is why some whine, including me on losing a guaranteed sheep tag. Who else can we talk to?
 
Is it really 90/10 if there are general elk and deer for residents? I think it is different than other states that don't have general tags and states that have transferable landowner tags. Just something to ponder?


That is a great point nripepi!!!!!

When WY residents are asking for equality in tag allocation they need to also consider that the other states they are comparing to don't have guaranteed gen tags. I would be curious how many gen tags are issued and how that would affect the 90/10 ratio.

I would love to get a general region G or H deer tag every year in exchange for 90/10 - lol

In all seriousness, it just goes to show that we can't compare each state equally across the board. Every state has a different set of issues, rules, requirements, costs, availability, demand, etc, etc. And it is up to each of us individually if we want o play by that state's reequipments or not.

I do agree tho that WY does give out a higher than normal amount of E/D/A tags to NR's but maybe 90/5/5 or 90/10 is a little too extreme considering the wilderness requirements and the guaranteed gen tags.

Its a good thing to discuss and ponder in the off season though. in a few months when we start drawing tags this issue will be forgotten about until next winter - lol.
 
SDBugler said:
Is it really 90/10 if there are general elk and deer for residents? I think it is different than other states that don't have general tags and states that have transferable landowner tags. Just something to ponder?


That is a great point nripepi!!!!!

When WY residents are asking for equality in tag allocation they need to also consider that the other states they are comparing to don't have guaranteed gen tags. I would be curious how many gen tags are issued and how that would affect the 90/10 ratio.

I would love to get a general region G or H deer tag every year in exchange for 90/10 - lol

In all seriousness, it just goes to show that we can't compare each state equally across the board. Every state has a different set of issues, rules, requirements, costs, availability, demand, etc, etc. And it is up to each of us individually if we want o play by that state's reequipments or not.

I do agree tho that WY does give out a higher than normal amount of E/D/A tags to NR's but maybe 90/5/5 or 90/10 is a little too extreme considering the wilderness requirements and the guaranteed gen tags.

Its a good thing to discuss and ponder in the off season though. in a few months when we start drawing tags this issue will be forgotten about until next winter - lol.
Click to expand...
WY residents want a bigger portion of the premium tags for E/D/A. Nonresidents wouldn’t lose a single elk tag under 90/10 they’d just be converted to general. NR would lose some deer tags and likely wouldn’t lose a whole lot of antelope tags ASSUMING the draw process is conducted under its current form. That’s likely to change also at some point. Hard to blame a guy living in WY for wanting more opportunity at premium tags.
 
SDBugler said:
Is it really 90/10 if there are general elk and deer for residents? I think it is different than other states that don't have general tags and states that have transferable landowner tags. Just something to ponder?


That is a great point nripepi!!!!!

When WY residents are asking for equality in tag allocation they need to also consider that the other states they are comparing to don't have guaranteed gen tags. I would be curious how many gen tags are issued and how that would affect the 90/10 ratio.

I would love to get a general region G or H deer tag every year in exchange for 90/10 - lol

In all seriousness, it just goes to show that we can't compare each state equally across the board. Every state has a different set of issues, rules, requirements, costs, availability, demand, etc, etc. And it is up to each of us individually if we want o play by that state's reequipments or not.

I do agree tho that WY does give out a higher than normal amount of E/D/A tags to NR's but maybe 90/5/5 or 90/10 is a little too extreme considering the wilderness requirements and the guaranteed gen tags.

Its a good thing to discuss and ponder in the off season though. in a few months when we start drawing tags this issue will be forgotten about until next winter - lol.
Click to expand...
What a steaming pile.

Montana, Utah, Idaho, Colorado, North Dakota, South Dakota, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, etc. etc. etc. all have OTC tags of some kind for residents...and rightfully so!

Try again.

What's ridiculous is that NR's are looking at every angle to keep Residents from getting 90% of the tags, "oh, you're greedy, oh, you get a general tag, oh, you keep NR's out of wilderness"...its all a bunch of garbage arguments. Makes ZERO sense.

No, it won't be forgotten about, time and pressure...is how things change.

If you want a general tag every year, toughen up and move here...if not, too bad apply as a NR and be happy you can.

These types of arguments are making cutting a deal with outfitters easier and easier. I think its just time to do it and then we really will put an end to the NR whining.
 
Hunt_the_West said:
WY residents want a bigger portion of the premium tags for E/D/A. Nonresidents wouldn’t lose a single elk tag under 90/10 they’d just be converted to general. NR would lose some deer tags and likely wouldn’t lose a whole lot of antelope tags ASSUMING the draw process is conducted under its current form. That’s likely to change also at some point. Hard to blame a guy living in WY for wanting more opportunity at premium tags.
Click to expand...
Exactly, somebody that gets it...thank you.
 
BuzzH said:
What a steaming pile.

Montana, Utah, Idaho, Colorado, North Dakota, South Dakota, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, etc. etc. etc. all have OTC tags of some kind for residents...and rightfully so!

Try again.

What's ridiculous is that NR's are looking at every angle to keep Residents from getting 90% of the tags, "oh, you're greedy, oh, you get a general tag, oh, you keep NR's out of wilderness"...its all a bunch of garbage arguments. Makes ZERO sense.

No, it won't be forgotten about, time and pressure...is how things change.

If you want a general tag every year, toughen up and move here...if not, too bad apply as a NR and be happy you can.

These types of arguments are making cutting a deal with outfitters easier and easier. I think its just time to do it and then we really will put an end to the NR whining.
Click to expand...
Most of these states have OTC options for nonresidents too. Maybe Wyoming will make their nonresident general tags otc? Then make limited tags 90/10? Seems like a fair comparison?
 
BuzzH said:
I'll put you down as a yes too.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I guess those dollars came rolling in and changed his mind about outfitters and the wilderness they took for only outfitters to take in Big money Nonresidents.
But bird watchers, hikers, fisherman etc can still go into it.

I wouldn't have you as a bug catcher.
 
Wouldn't it be a B!tch if all the other State close BY shut the door on Wyoming hunters coming to hunt in their State
 
These quota discussions are all ignoring a bigger reality that is likely to shrink the pie for all state licensed hunters (R and NR): Tribes.
 
Gator said:
Wouldn't it be a B!tch if all the other State close BY shut the door on Wyoming hunters coming to hunt in their State
Click to expand...
They all limit NRs to 10% or less of their LQ tags...sounds like a real b itch that Wyoming wants the same for our Residents...oh, wait.
 
This all falls under the category of **** I cannot control. I will continue to play the game until I elect not to play the game. Eventually resident hunters will see people coming to limit their hunting on our federal lands - I certainly won't care if they eliminate hunting on western federal lands - I have already been cut off. I might even support it. Tell yourself it can't happen. States may control game management, but not access and which lands can be hunted.
 
BuzzH said:
Meh...more die from being hit by cars.
Click to expand...
Partially agree. But cars don't show up 1-7 days before season and target the better bucks and bulls in prime units that only hand out 50, 100, 200 antlered tags...on a statewide basis it will be a modest impact. On the premium public land units...it will be very noticeable. On these good units...folks might want to start thinking 50/45/5...T/R/N
 
BuzzH said:
Not going to spoon feed you your mush...
Click to expand...
No I’m just messing with you. We both know Wyoming doesn’t have OTC elk tags. I really don’t care what happens. I know my boss will be happy if some sort of outfitter set aside goes through so he doesn’t have to always buy commissioner tags when he takes us to wyoming hunting.
 
I’m a nonresident and 90/10 makes perfect sense for LE tags. I don’t understand why a NR would be accumulating a ton of points for deer in WY anyways. Just don’t see the point for the hunts on offer.

Would hope this doesn’t trickle down into the general deer and elk quotas, selfishly of course. WY has been a great state to me and I 100% respect residents wanting a larger share of the LE hunts.

Hardly any nonres apply for hunts in my state but if they did, I’d be pissed if we were handing out a ton of tags to them.

I believe hunting across multiple states every year is going to be a thing of the past in the coming years unfortunately. Just too many people living in the west and too easy to travel for hunts. Better learn to enjoy what you have in your own state, or move.
 
sneakem said:
...
In all reality 10% is fair as it's the status quo these days...
Click to expand...

Straight 10% NR allocation (all species) from WY would be MORE generous than the western folks in Oregon & California et.al. 10% NR allocation is “generally” the mountain-west standard.

But what is NOT fair is for WY to hold out 20-25% NR allocation and the “preference” point model for 28 years to LURE in $50 million in moose/sheep PP fees for the state of Wyoming. And then unilaterally change the deal to 10% and BP-squared and NOT offer a refund to the moose/sheep folks that relied on the implied duty of good faith that attaches to every bargain made. NRs reasonably relied on those terms when making $438/year payments to this m/s Ponzi (less in years prior to 2019).

This $50M problem is unprecedented in scale and exudes bad faith
 
heateater said:
No I’m just messing with you. We both know Wyoming doesn’t have OTC elk tags. I really don’t care what happens. I know my boss will be happy if some sort of outfitter set aside goes through so he doesn’t have to always buy commissioner tags when he takes us to wyoming hunting.
Click to expand...
Yes they do and like I said you could have bought 3 OTC last week...fact.
 
Crampy said:
Straight 10% NR allocation (all species) from WY would be MORE generous than the western folks in Oregon & California et.al. 10% NR allocation is “generally” the mountain-west standard.

But what is NOT fair is for WY to hold out 20-25% NR allocation and the “preference” point model for 28 years to LURE in $50 million in moose/sheep PP fees for the state of Wyoming. And then unilaterally change the deal to 10% and BP-squared and NOT offer a refund to the moose/sheep folks that relied on the implied duty of good faith that attaches to every bargain made. NRs reasonably relied on those terms when making $438/year payments to this m/s Ponzi (less in years prior to 2019).

This $50M problem is unprecedented in scale and exudes bad faith
Click to expand...
You have your Gofundme fired up yet? I’m ready to donate.
 
BuzzH said:
Yes they do and like I said you could have bought 3 OTC last week...fact.
Click to expand...
The face you post to comments here ? seems much more appropriate to post in response to the serial raghorn killer posts you made over on hunttalk. No wonder you want more limited entry tags. Must be running out of room to stack all those dinks.
 
Here's a little eye-opener and reality check for what will happen to limited quota units for nonres and outfitters with 90/10 and 90/5/5. I thought it would be interesting to put together a list to give an idea of how few tags are currently issued to nonres.

Units that offered zero nonresident special type 1 draw elk tags in the random draw in 2022 (without 90/10 or 90/5/5):

22, 31, 32, 53, 54, 56, 58, 59, 84, 88, 106, 111, 118, and 124

Units that offered only 1 special draw elk tag to nonres in the random draw in 2022:

1, 6, 19, 24, 30, 51, 55, 78, 91, 108, 116

Units that offered only 2 special type 1 draw elk tags to nonres in the random draw in 20022:

8, 11, 16, 23, 25, 35, 47, 62, 63, 93, 100, 120, 122

Now, lets compile a list of units that would offer nonres 0 tags in the draw if nonres quotas are cut in 1/2 with 90/10:

22, 31, 32, 53, 54, 56, 58, 59, 84, 88, 106, 111, 118,124, 1, 6, 19, 24, 30, 51, 55, 78, 91, 108, 116

Now lets put together a list of units that would offer 0 nonresident tags to outfitters plus nonres in the special draw random pool with 90/5/5:

22, 31, 32, 53, 54, 56, 58, 59, 84, 88, 106, 111, 118,124, 1, 6, 19, 24, 30, 51, 55, 78, 91, 108, 116, 8, 11, 16, 23, 25, 35, 47, 62, 63, 93, 100, 120, 122

If you have been applying for any of these units and don't have close to max pts you likely won't draw these tags in your lifetime with 90/10 or 90/5/5. Why pay for high pref pt fees if you have 0 chance to draw?
 
heateater said:
The face you post to comments here ? seems much more appropriate to post in response to the serial raghorn killer posts you made over on hunttalk. No wonder you want more limited entry tags. Must be running out of room to stack all those dinks.
Click to expand...
I've only ever shot 83 elk...if you're trying to hurt my feelings, it's not working.

Elk are fun and all, but lots of stuff I would rather hunt. Lots of them and with 3 tags a year, 10-12 weeks of leave a year, why not hunt them. Can't fish everyday.
 
jims said:
Here's a little eye-opener and reality check for what will happen to limited quota units for nonres and outfitters with 90/10 and 90/5/5. I thought it would be interesting to put together a list to give an idea of how few tags are currently issued to nonres.

Units that offered zero nonresident special type 1 draw elk tags in the random draw in 2022 (without 90/10 or 90/5/5):

22, 31, 32, 53, 54, 56, 58, 59, 84, 88, 106, 111, 118, and 124

Units that offered only 1 special draw elk tag to nonres in the random draw in 2022:

1, 6, 19, 24, 30, 51, 55, 78, 91, 108, 116

Units that offered only 2 special type 1 draw elk tags to nonres in the random draw in 20022:

8, 11, 16, 23, 25, 35, 47, 62, 63, 93, 100, 120, 122

Now, lets compile a list of units that would offer nonres 0 tags in the draw if nonres quotas are cut in 1/2 with 90/10:

22, 31, 32, 53, 54, 56, 58, 59, 84, 88, 106, 111, 118,124, 1, 6, 19, 24, 30, 51, 55, 78, 91, 108, 116

Now lets put together a list of units that would offer 0 nonresident tags to outfitters plus nonres in the special draw random pool with 90/5/5:

22, 31, 32, 53, 54, 56, 58, 59, 84, 88, 106, 111, 118,124, 1, 6, 19, 24, 30, 51, 55, 78, 91, 108, 116, 8, 11, 16, 23, 25, 35, 47, 62, 63, 93, 100, 120, 122

If you have been applying for any of these units and don't have close to max pts you likely won't draw these tags in your lifetime with 90/10 or 90/5/5. Why pay for high pref pt fees if you have 0 chance to draw?
Click to expand...
More fuzzy math...
 
Buzz, sounds like you have plenty of opportunity to fill your freezer as a resident without 90/10 or 90/5/5?
 
BuzzH said:
I've only ever shot 83 elk...if you're trying to hurt my feelings, it's not working.

Elk are fun and all, but lots of stuff I would rather hunt. Lots of them and with 3 tags a year, 10-12 weeks of leave a year, why not hunt them. Can't fish everyday.
Click to expand...
I guess it’s good you go by quantity and not score then. I imagine you’re best at hunting trouser snakes anyway.
 
jims said:
No fuzzy math involved, just a list of units that offered 0, 1, or 2 nonres tags in 2022.
Click to expand...
Every one of those units give more tags, recheck your math. A unit with 50 tags gives 8 non resident tags, fact.
 
jims said:
Buzz, sounds like you have plenty of opportunity to fill your freezer as a resident without 90/10 or 90/5/5?
Click to expand...
I want every resident to have more opportunity to hunt the best deer, elk, and pronghorn units by getting them 90% of the tags.

Nothing wrong with residents filling their freezers with big bucks and bulls from LQ areas....is there? More meat on old bucks and bulls as well...win-win-win.

No question 90/5/5 is the right thing for residents.
 
BuzzH said:
I want every resident to have more opportunity to hunt the best deer, elk, and pronghorn units by getting them 90% of the tags.

Nothing wrong with residents filling their freezers with big bucks and bulls from LQ areas....is there? More meat on old bucks and bulls as well...win-win-win.

No question 90/5/5 is the right thing for residents.
Click to expand...
Nonresidents, specifically guided nonresidents, are killing way more big bulls and bucks. That won’t change regardless of the allocation. I support outfitter set asides. Like I said I’m not the best example because we buy commissioner tags usually when we hunt Wyoming but I would love to see Buzz run out of excuses as to why he shoot’s the smallest bulls and bucks on the mountain.
 
heateater said:
Nonresidents, specifically guided nonresidents, are killing way more big bulls and bucks. That won’t change regardless of the allocation. I support outfitter set asides. Like I said I’m not the best example because we buy commissioner tags usually when we hunt Wyoming but I would love to see Buzz run out of excuses as to why he shoot’s the smallest bulls and bucks on the mountain.
Click to expand...
So, you're a client, wow that's a big shock, so surprising...laffin'.

Have any photos of the big Wyoming bucks and bulls your guide pointed out to you?

Laffin'...even harder.
 
heateater said:
Nonresidents, specifically guided nonresidents, are killing way more big bulls and bucks. That won’t change regardless of the allocation. I support outfitter set asides. Like I said I’m not the best example because we buy commissioner tags usually when we hunt Wyoming but I would love to see Buzz run out of excuses as to why he shoot’s the smallest bulls and bucks on the mountain.
Click to expand...
If you buy Commissioner tags when you come to Wyoming, why do you give a hoot about any of this?

Nice try...
 
83 elk in your lifetime that sounds like a resident has enough tags.
So now you want more of the tags.
Have you seen what kind of money the NR bring into the state by drawing a tag. Fuel,food,motel,Etc.
I guess Wyo can double the price of a resident tag that will help offseat that cost.
 

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