WY NR Application Question?

elkhunterUT · Jan 4, 2011

I am trying to figure out my options for 2011 WY elk and wanted to get some input from those that have more experience with the Wyoming draw than I do.

I have 3 NR points and have been planning to draw a Limited Quota unit at some point in the future. I was recently invited to go on a WY General elk hunt and would love to go, but don't want to lose my 3 points to a general tag.

Is it an option for me to put a Limited Quota elk unit as my first choice, and General elk (regular price) as my 2nd choice and retain my 3 points if I draw the general elk tag?

Thanks for any guidance you can give me!

kilowatt · Jan 4, 2011

Sounds right to me.

Brian
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OSBeavs · Jan 4, 2011

If I am not mistaken, since gen tag is only about a 25% regular draw with zero points then there will be no leftover tags thus you would use your 3 NR points to draw the gen tag. Not positive though.

TOPGUN · Jan 4, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-11 AT 05:18PM (MST)[p]Not correct! You only lose your PPs if you draw your first choice, so he could do what he said and also buy another PP on the application. Then if he draws his #1 choice they refund that PP money he just sent and his PPs would go to 0 for the 2012 draw. If he doesn't draw #1 in 2011, he will still have 3 if he doesn't buy another PP or 4 PPs for 2012 if he pays for another PP on his application. Whether he draws his #2 choice or not would make no difference in his PP count because they are only used for your #1 choice. He will need more than a little luck to draw his #2 choice in his scenario because you usually need to make it your first choice and have 1 PP to have pretty much a 100% chance at that tag. I would definitely not make the General tag a #1 choice as that's just throwing away a lot of money that will be well spent for drawing a limited quota tag in the next year or two.

OSBeavs · Jan 4, 2011

OK, I understand. If he does want to ensure himself to hunt in WY this year he would have to list Gen as first choice because like I stated it is only a 24.5% chance to draw with zero points. But you are saying he goes into that 24.5% chance with zero points even if it is second choice on his app. If you are correct it is different than we do in Oregon. In Oregon there is no way one could draw "Gen" as a second choice because it is not undersubscribed. The zero pointers that listed it as their first choice would get it before anybody would get it as a second choice.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying. This makes a big difference in my WY app this year as I have 1 point and have been trying to decide on limited special/reg or gen.

OSBeavs · Jan 4, 2011

I guess my question is this-would a person have any chance at drawing "Gen" as a second choice if there is only a 24.5% chance for the zero pointers who applied as first choice? I ask because the way WapitiBob explained it in a Dec 10 post and the way I understood it you wouldn't. All remaining random draw tags would be distributed amongst those who didn't draw with their first choice.

BuzzH · Jan 4, 2011

He would have no chance unless he went with the special draw for both his LE and general tags.

In the regular draw, you will not draw your second choice as a general tag unless everyone with 0 points draws first...not very likely to happen.

TOPGUN · Jan 4, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-11 AT 06:31PM (MST)[p]There are four drawings for the tags and all are separate from each other. Two of the drawings are for people who applied in either the Regular Random or the Special Random Drawing. Neither of those involve the PP system and everyone in them has the same chance at drawing a tag. The other two are the Regular PP drawing and the Special PP drawing. You can only apply for one of the four drawings in a particular year. The Special Draws are the ones that cost more money and they are drawn first. Any first choice applicant that doesn't draw in them is then placed in the Regular Drawings that follow, so they actually have two chances at a tag because they put out more $$$. In the PP drawings the computer awards the licenses from those first choice applicants with the most PPs on down the line until either the first choice applicants names are exhausted or the total number of tags is allotted, whichever comes first. Based on the odds in all of those drawings last year there was only one that had tags left after all of the first choice applicants drew their tags. That was the Special Random Draw that only had 43 first choice applicants for the 351 tags. The remaining tags would have been put in the other pool after any second and third choice applicants were given tags and those were all exhausted in that drawing. Therefore, to make a long story short, if that happens again this year, and it probably will, it is basically a waste of time to list the General Tag as a second choice. I guess it looks like he will either draw his first choice to do that hunt and lose his PPs or go with those guys and just help out on their General Tag hunt and not risk losing the PPs. Being retired and loving to get out there, if it were me I'd go even if I didn't have the tag, as long as I couldn't hunt anywhere else. In fact, I don't even apply for elk tags any more because I'm after a big mulie, but I help every year if my buddy in Sheridan draws a tag. He bow hunts the September season and then rifle hunts if he doesn't score with his bow. The bull in this photo was what we got opening morning of rifle season this year after a very slow September hunt.

BuzzH · Jan 4, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-11 AT 11:21PM (MST)[p]TOPGUN,

I think you're wrong.

Demand Report - Non-Resident Elk State of Wyoming Date: 2/22/2010
NR Special Random Draw Wyoming Game and Fish Time: 11:37:36 AM
Fiscal Division Page: 13
Hunt Hunt Total First Choice Second Choice Third Choice
Area Type Description Quota Applicants Applicants Applicants
---- ---- ----------------------- ----- ------------- ------------- -------------
123 4 ANTLERLESS ELK 1 0 0 0
124 1 ANY ELK 0 22 0 1
124 4 ANTLERLESS ELK 1 0 1 0
125 1 ANY ELK 1 0 0 0
GEN GENERAL ELK 351 43 126 9

In the NR Special Random draw...all applicants drew general elk tags on all three choices.

There were 351 total tags available and only 178 NR's applied for those 351 tags. The remaining 173 licenses from the Special Random draw went into the regular priced draw (PP first, followed by random).

So, that means that if you pay the expensive fee, if you dont draw your first choice, you 100% will draw a general tag on your second choice, or even third choice, and also get a preference point (if you bought it, or you can buy it before Sept.).

I've had quite a few friends draw a general tag on their second choice and still get a point...

OSBeavs · Jan 5, 2011

I think Buzz has it dialed.

WapitiBob · Jan 5, 2011

Buzz is correct. A GEN tag in the special side of the draw is a 100% 2nd choice tag. And a point.

TOPGUN · Jan 5, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-11 AT 01:17PM (MST)[p]Yep, I made a big booboo! I was up way too late here in MI last night on the site and between having a hard time seeing numbers on the screen with these 63 year old eyes my brain also wasn't functioning too well either, LOL!!! He would have been in those second choice applicants and would have easily drawn that tag, but he doesn't want to go into that draw. See my post in the elk forum and I also apologize here for the confusion I created!!!

WapitiBob · Jan 5, 2011

I think you're correct in that the remaining special GEN tags do go back to the regular side to be distributed, unless they recently changed it and they are now held back and put in the "leftover tag" sale later in the summer.

elkhunterUT · Jan 5, 2011

Thanks guys for your input - I got my questions answered. Appreciate the help!

TOPGUN · Jan 5, 2011

Don't quote me after the booboo I made late last night, LOL, but I think as long as there are unfilled applications in any of the initial draws that the tags go into those pools to satisfy those people first. Then if there are any tags left they now go right into the OTC system they started a year ago instead of first having a leftover draw late in the summer like they used to do.