WY Area 7 tag numbers

[Wyobowhunt]

Can someone explain why the tag numbers did this?

2013 Resident 1303
2014 Resident 1049
a decrease of 254 tags

2013 non-resident tags (grouped together) 183
2014 non-resident tags (grouped together) 217
an increase of 34 tags.

I know they decreased the number of tags so I understand why the resident numbers went down. I think it might be that they set the numbers after the non-resident draw but I'm not sure. Thanks for any thoughts on this.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-14 AT 07:03PM (MST)[p]Not sure, but I think you may have hit the reason. According to the Final Regulation stats 7-1 was allotted 1,750 tags in 2013 and residents got 1303 for 75%. In 2014 the unit received 1500 tags and residents got 1049 for 70%. so the numbers you stated are correct. This years numbers for NRs may have something to do with the screwup the G&F made in issuing way too many tags to residents in the June draw and then having to go back and tell over 1200 residents that their initial successful designation was incorrect and they had not drawn the tag, but I don't know how it would.

 

[Wyobowhunt]

I was also wondering if they had a problem with numbers on non residents.

 

[WapitiBob]

NR tag numbers are set in Dec, prior to the NR draw. Res tag numbers are set in March, final after they're signed off.

 

[jm77]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-14 AT 09:55PM (MST)[p]Bob is right and this is how it's done; the G&F uses the prior years quota for NR elk allocations. In the years where there are increased tag numbers, residents benefit. In years of decreased tag numbers, the NR benefit.

It is stupid to do the NR elk drawing so early because the years quotas are not final. This is a result of outfitters getting too involved in this process. The G&F is talking about moving elk drawings to after seasons are set like deer and antelope. I'm sure the outfitters will raise hell about, though.

 

[jm77]

Topgun

The elk allocation percent is 84/16 res/nr for limited quota elk. The drawing stats leave out res & nr landowner tags which throws off the percentage.

 

[PleaseDear]

+1 jm77

Robb

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-14 AT 07:46AM (MST)[p]Thanks guys, as I was pretty well aware of everything mentioned and that's also why I said I didn't know how the resident draw would be able to affect the already held NR draw. I know it looks like the G&F is going to change the application dates for NRs for deer and antelope to match the resident dates. It will be interesting to see what happens if they come out with plans to change the elk dates to match and I imagine jm77 is spot on regarding his outfitter comment!

 

[grosventrehunter]

Man that sure is a lot of NR tags!! Just saying.

 

[WapitiBob]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-14 AT 10:57AM (MST)[p]

They don't always go off the previous years tag totals. 2014 had several hunts with different NR allocations than 2013. Both unit 2 hunts and unit 7 type 8 were different. Unit 8 type 6 is different. That's just the first half dozen I looked at. I'll refrain from digging on the research mags that fail to provide the info...

NR LO's drew 63 unit 7 type 1 tags in the LO PP draw and zero in the LO Random draw in 2014. As Buzz has mentioned several times, the NR LO allocation is the FULL NR allocation of tags. What's left after they draw is re-allocated 75/25 and then the std NR draw is done. They could conceivably draw every NR tag.

 

[TOPGUN]

>Man that sure is a lot
>of NR tags!! Just saying.
>


The only reason there are a lot is because G&F has the total tag allocation so high. It's no different than any other unit as far as how the tags are distributed to residents and NRs. That unit must be solid orange on the first few days of the season with that many tags issued and it still owuld be if you took all the NRs out of the equation with the limited amount of public land that many are trying to hunt.

 

[Wyobowhunt]

Thanks it is just like I thought it worked. So next year non resident numbers will be back down. I figured landowners would take more tags.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-14 AT 05:06PM (MST)[p]>Thanks it is just like I
>thought it worked. So
>next year non resident numbers
>will be back down.
>I figured landowners would take
>more tags.


I don't know how you got that lower tag number for NRs out of this discussion because we're talking a unit that has a lot of elk, but the problem from what I understand it is that a lot of them are on private land. Other than some areas where wolves and other factors are taking a toll on the west side of the state, elk are doing very well everywhere else.

 

[jm77]

Because area 7-1 was decreased for 2014, in 2015 the NR allocation will be less, that is correct, even if they decide to increase the licenses, that increase won't be effective until late April of that year.

The yearly NR allocation is based on the previous year, changes in LO apps could be the difference. New license types and areas are based on tenative quota.

Either way, it's supposed to work out that NR get 16% of LQ tags in the drawing.

 

[jm77]

>LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-14
>AT 05:06?PM (MST)
>
>>Thanks it is just like I
>>thought it worked. So
>>next year non resident numbers
>>will be back down.
>>I figured landowners would take
>>more tags.
>
>
>I don't know how you got
>that lower tag number for
>NRs out of this discussion
>because we're talking a unit
>that has a lot of
>elk, but the problem from
>what I understand it is
>that a lot of them
>are on private land.
>Other than some areas where
>wolves and other factors are
>taking a toll on the
>west side of the state,
>elk are doing very well
>everywhere else.



Area 7-1 was lowered in 2014 because of concerns with decreasing quality in bulls. Private land or not, plenty of elk die in unit 7 during hunting season.

 

[TOPGUN]

Okay jm77, I'm on the same page with you now, LOL! Tags were cut from 1,750 in 2013 to 1,500 in 2014, so what you're saying is they can't increase that number now even if they wanted to until after the NR draw is done in 2015 because they would be using the numbers from this year to do that 2015 NR draw. For some reason I didn't realize they had cut that many elk tags from 7 until I looked into the Final Regs. section.

 

[grosventrehunter]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-14 AT 05:25PM (MST)[p]The fire didnt help unit 7 either. It burned hot in places so habitat won't be the same for years to come.

 

[WapitiBob]

They do NOT pull the nr tag numbers from the prior year, without review and bio input. I have the numbers used to calculate the nr % for the 2014 draw. As I mentioned above, a number of hunts have quotas, both different from the 2013 and final 2014 quotas.

 

[jm77]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-14 AT 10:21PM (MST)[p]>They do NOT pull the nr
>tag numbers from the prior
>year, without review and bio
>input. I have the numbers
>used to calculate the nr
>% for the 2014 draw.
>As I mentioned above, a
>number of hunts have quotas,
>both different from the 2013
>and final 2014 quotas.


So what are you saying Bob, they review every area for NR elk and decide the the quota based on what?

Not what I am being told.

 

[WapitiBob]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-14 AT 04:43AM (MST)[p]I don't know what the entire process entails but the report I have, which requires a public info request to get, showing the hunt quotas prior to the 84/16 split for the NR elk draw, are not always pulled straight from the prior years quotas. There are some hunt quotas that don't match 2013 nor the projected 2014 numbers. Some match the 2014 numbers but most do match 2013. I'm guessing If they just used 2013 she would have said so and I wouldn't be required to submit the public request. The numbers weren't volunteered I can tell you that.

I'll call the head honcho when I get up.

 

[jm77]

Essentially what I'm being told is that prior years quotas are used as guidelines due to the fact the G&F is required to set NR elk quotas BEFORE they do most post season elk counts.(wildlife managemnet at it's best)

This is not a hard fast rule and if they think ahead they will lower or raise licenses before their count is done, they can adjust accordingly.(which they obviously do)

Voodoo wildlife management...

 

[WapitiBob]

That's the process I was trying to outline. I didn't do a very good job.
I would like to see that nr draw the same time as the others.

 

[jm77]

>That's the process I was trying
>to outline. I didn't do
>a very good job.
>I would like to see that
>nr draw the same time
>as the others.


Bob, I was told today that the outfitters raised hell about putting the elk draw where is belongs, which is after the seasons are set, same as deer & antelope. We can expect to continue with the Jan application period for sometime.

However, I am going to look into how the regulated allocation between LQ res/nr elk has been with this 'jumbling' of tag numbers. I don't see how they can hit the 84/16 the way it is being done. That should ruffle some feathers...

 

[WapitiBob]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-14 AT 07:35PM (MST)[p]I think they're fine because the NR 16% is based on "available licenses", whereas the resident LE quotas are tied to the Commission approved quantities.

(iv) Elk. A total license limit of seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) nonresident elk licenses shall be made available to nonresident applicants in the initial drawing each year. Reduced price cow/calf elk licenses and leftover limited quota elk licenses described in this Chapter may be made available to nonresidents in addition to the limit of seven thousand two hundred fifty (7,250). Sixteen percent (16%) of the total available limited quota elk licenses shall initially be offered to nonresidents in the nonresident elk initial drawing. The order of the nonresident elk initial drawings described in this section shall be Nonresident Landowner Licenses, Nonresident Special Licenses, and then Nonresident Regular Licenses. Following the Nonresident Landowner License Drawing, licenses available in the initial drawing from the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) limit shall be allocated as follows: The allocation of remaining licenses after the nonresident landowner drawing shall be forty percent (40%) to the Nonresident Special License Drawing and sixty percent (60%) to the Nonresident Regular License Drawing. If the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota is not issued in the initial nonresident drawings, the Department may achieve the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota by issuing general elk licenses. Licenses remaining for limited quota areas resulting from this procedure may be made available in the resident elk initial drawing.

////

(B) Following the nonresident elk drawing, quotas for resident limited quota elk licenses shall be adjusted according to the elk quotas established by Commission regulation. In those cases for hunt areas or license types that did not exist for the nonresident elk drawing, but which were later approved by Commission regulation, one hundred percent (100%) of the total available limited quota elk licenses shall be offered to residents in the initial drawing. For the license types that have increased from the initial total available quota established for the nonresident elk drawing, the original resident quota and one hundred percent (100%) of the increased quota shall initially be offered to residents. For the license types that have decreased from the initial total available quota established for the nonresident elk drawing, the quota available to residents in the resident initial drawing shall be the greater of eighty-four percent (84%) of the new reduced quota or the new reduced quota less licenses issued in the nonresident drawing, except in those hunt areas in Grand Teton National Park. For the hunt areas within Grand Teton National Park, the initial quota offered to residents shall be one hundred percent (100%) of the new reduced quota less licenses issued to nonresidents. The Department shall determine if any licenses remaining from the nonresident elk drawing shall be offered to residents in the initial drawing. The order of the resident elk initial drawings depicted in this section shall be Resident Landowner Licenses, then Resident Regular Licenses.

https://gf.state.wy.us/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/REGULATIONS_CH44_EMER20140005515.pdf

 

[WapitiBob]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-14 AT 07:38PM (MST)[p]I'm disappointing to hear about the Elk date. It's hosed me the last 2 years with preliminary dates changing in the final regs.

Thanks for the info.
Hope you and the family have a memorable 4th.

 

[grosventrehunter]

Ok I'm confused. So NR are allocated 16% of total elk tags give throughout the entire state? Did I read that right?

 

[WapitiBob]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-14 AT 10:48PM (MST)[p]

Tags are allocated on a per hunt basis, then split 84/16. The 16% is split 75/25 PP and random, and the NR LO's draw their tags. The remaining tags (on a per hunt basis) are combined and it goes thru the NR public draw steps. Outlined above in section IV.
The steps are different depending on species. For Antelope, the leftovers from the resident draw 84% (done before the nr draw) are combined with the NR 16%, and split PP/random for the NR land owner draw. After the LO draw the above combining takes place and the public NR draw starts. This is why, in the past, our antelope allocations for some hunts were way above the 16%. If it's the Elk draw, the total full price LE tags that were drawn are tallied and if needed, additional tags are allocated to special gen, then regular gen to bring the total NR full price tags drawn to 7,250. So far, our std. 16% has not met the 7,250 requirement and tags have been converted to gen. This 3rd draw step is not reflected in the published draw reports.

 

[WapitiBob]

This graphic shows the effect of the LO draw on public tags.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos2/68241.jpg

 

[jm77]

FYI

Antelope intial drawing is an 80/20 res/nr split. All antelope tags are LQ.

Deer intial LQ draw is 80/20split w/res OTC Gen tags available and regional NR Gen tags set with a quota.

Elk intial draw NR LQ 16%. Whatever that totals, it is subtracted from 7250 and what's left is drawn for gen to make total NR elk 7250.

Of course in all species leftovers are open to all hunters when available.

Also, landowners get first crack at all LQ licenses. Usually the landowner tags are insignificant, but not always. This year in deer area 87, all NR tags(5) went to NR landowners.

 

[WapitiBob]

I spaced the different quotas.