Wolves are NOT a problem

[Idahoron]

I saw this article from the Times news.

http://www.magicvalley.com/news/local/wood-river/article_64d3fe91-1afd-5794-b5a0-62129c6f11ca.html

It says for the most part that wolves are not to blame. Hunters are to blame in several areas for population problems for elk.
Help me understand this. Either the wolves are killing the elk or hunters are right? The F&G could not do anything about the wolves but they can do something about hunters. So it is either the wolves are killing the elk or the F&G is not managing the elk correctly. Is that what they are saying? That is what it looks like to me.
First off I think the "data" is pure $hit. Wolves ARE wiping out the elk, but I also think that many areas have had WAY too many tags sold. Second F&G CAN manage the hunters by reducing the tags but that reduces income. Tag reductions didn't happen even though they knew populations were dropping. Last the only areas that have a rising population of elk are the areas without wolves. I don't know what or if the F&G paid for this info but it was all smoke and mirrors and it makes the F&G look bad at best.
Wolves and mismanagement are both to blame and both are visible in this story.
Will the F&G just say see all you hunters are wrong? Will they go back to saying the elk are disbursed? Will they say the elk are there but you just have to work harder, get off the roads farther? Those old BS tactics are long over used. This was done to try to ?lure? the non-residents back with their thick wallets. I am done with the open hunts and running all over the state to find game. I realize that there are still deer, and elk in the mountains. There is NO WAY they can say that hunting is as good as it was 15 to 20 years ago. 15 years ago every unit in the state produced bulls in the 300 range, Not now. No I am long passed the point I have to turn over every rock and bush to find a deer or elk. I am at the point where If I don't draw I am not going to go. If I don't go I won't be spending the money for tags and LOTS of other things. If the quality of the bulls and bucks were better that would be one thing but I won't chase all over the state for a spike bull or a two point buck. Some guys will and more power to them. Like the study says they are the reason for the population decline not wolves. Ya right.
Ron

 

[Pre64]

Frustrating isn't it?
Here's a link to the FG report. http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/news/fg_news/10/aug.pdf

I love this line;

Since the return
of wolves to Idaho
15 years ago, Idaho?s
overall elk population
has dropped by 20
percent from 125,000
to about 100,000.

Then I'm told how wolves have nothing to do with it. BS. I've hunted Challis for 20 years. Maybe the best elk country I've ever seen. No longer. What a shame.


Its OK though. I'm sure people in Cali and elsewhere get the warm fuzzies because wolves are alive and well in Idaho. That's what really matters.

 

[BCPronghorn]

Interesting that this article does not speak to how many calves were aborted during pregnacy because of the constant wolf pressure. It also does not speak to predation before the calves hit 6 months of age. Finally it does not speak to the margin of error of such a small sample compared to the total population.

Frankly it is viewing life through very rose-colored glasses. The article has already been picked up by the Greater Yellowstone Coalition as "proof" that the wolf population is not a problem in Idaho. F&G stepped in it with this article. It should be printed on very soft paper and put on a roll so the publication would have some redeeming value...and that's all I have to say about that.

 

[carterj16]

In the unit I hunt the numbers are above objective according to their study, but 2 yrs ago they got rid of the general spike hunt? If numbers are good why would this happen?

 

[Pre64]

I also was wondering if the sample population was statistically significant.

 

[doeseedoe]

Hey I am from Kali and I am not so warm and fuzzy. Actually from north kali not from warm and fuzzy land. I hunted and lived in Idaho for years. We quit hunting Idaho two years ago because of the wolf. Will not be back in my lifetime. Just returned from a backwoods trip to Dixie. We seen a few deer but no elk. Not even any sign.
Now fish and game are asking everyone to turn their wolf tag in. If they do it should be attached to a wolf.

 

[idahoan]

I know its a Federal issue but I beleive its crap that the people of Idaho cant deal with there own problems. Once objectives are met that should be the end of it, if they don't survive ohwell they are not meant to be.
I think the people of each state should be able to decide, we live with the consequences not those granolas.

 

[BPKHunter]

Well the author of this article obviously is not paraphrasing the F&G piece, but is spinning it to serve her purpose. The good news is that her email is attached and we should all send her our thoughts. [email protected]

She does not note that 25,000 less elk reside in the state than before and that yes those losses come only from the portion of the state that has wolves, so the empact is not really only a loss of 1/5th of the previous population but more likely 40% of the area where wolves live.

While I am not one of those that believes the wolves will eat every last elk, and I am ok that the elk are harder to hunt, to say that Wolves have not had an impact or more pointed that this F&G piece says that, is FRAUDULENT.

 

[idhunters]

Yeah, what everyone else has said...

but what gets me is that they include every single unit in the state in their "count" of units "above" elk objectives.

I know IDFG people read this post, so what I want to know is what is the population objective in unit 57? What about unit 53A? 55? 47? I mean give me a break, the objective is 50 elk and they "estimate" their is 51 so hey we are above objective.

What a load of crap and nothing but ammunition for the wolf lovers & anti hunters to shoot back at us.

I drew a tag in Idaho as did my wife. Otherwise we would not be buying any tags here either and I know a bunch of folks that feel the same way. IDFG is gonna fell a helluva pinch this fall and next year in their pocket books.

 

[Thunderclapper]

Bending stats can help justify anything.

 

[Edpre]

Hunted several times near Stanley. Archery was a hoot. It was a sight to see hundreds of elk milling around the big meadows, then heading out the next day and getting going with 3, 4 maybe 5 or 6 bulls throughout the day. Took a few years off saving pennies and started reading about the wolves. Headed back to Bear Valley, disregarding all the wolf commentary and spent a week listening to nightly howling and spent the days trying to get a glimps of a scared-to-death cow or two and managed to see one raghorn in the meadows. Granted he was doing a non-typical sprint through. In that week and a half we travelled miles in every direction and had multiple howling mornings each day we travelled (at our tent then again that same morning 8, 10, 12 miles away). After a very disappointing hunt I contacted F&G and was told there were 6 wolves in all of the UNIT I hunted. WOW! Those 6 wolves shoulda played the lottery - those 6 had a knack for deciding exactly where 2 PA hunters were gonna go the next morning, then howl at their tent, run a dozen miles (faster than our truck drives) and howl 'em up above the exact ridge they were going to work that very same morning! In a few short years that area went from literally hundreds and hundreds of visible elk to 3 visible. From dozens of calling scenarios to none.
What's the point? Well, now that I've luckily got the pennies I get to do more western hunts. Elk, mulies, etc., both guided and DIY. I now go elsewhere. Friends and family members who had been Idaho regulars now go elswhere. Ran into a friend this past weekend who had done a Challis guided hunt 8-10 yrs ago while he was back in med school. Loved it. After 3 trips the past 3 seasons he told me he won't ever go back to ID - why? WOLVES. Saw them on each trip. Not sign - not heard them. SAW them and ZERO bulls, along with exceptionally few cows. But he did comment on how well the outfitter treated him by driving him far distances to "get away" from the pack. He's booked fully guided in New Mexico this year. And next year. And mulies in Alberta, both last year and this year.
Maybe we are just the minority of former IDAHO regulars who switched states because we incorrectly believe wolves have had an appreciable imact on elk populations and elk hunting. But, I do not believe that is the case. I think ID is losing more than just hunt/tourism dollars, I think they are losing a status that a fair number of hunter-outdoorsman people held for a long time because of the wolf. Idaho was the place to go for me and quite a few of my "hunting group of friends" since way back in '72 when my dad did a once-in-a-lifetime Idaho hunt. Idaho was "THE place to go" during my dreaming years. Now it seems to be the place for the wolf photogs to go and spend their tourism dollars. I wonder how that's helping the F&G budget?
Just my $0.02

edpre

 

[whaffner]

well said.....I agree completley. I'm a resident, and had hunted the same place. Looked forward very much to it every year for many. Not any more.

 

[Blacktailslayer]

I don't get it, I'm from Nor-cal and this friggin state is damn near legalizing pot, which is AGAINST FEDERAL LAW, and nobody does squat about it. Why doesn't Idaho just legalize wolf hunting even after the fact of the judges recent decision (again)


funny thing is, the same idiots voting for the pot, are the ones protecting the wolves...

 

[excaliber]

Who believes anything F$G says about wolves? I can guarantee there's way more wolves than the 850 they say we have and a heck of allot less than the 100,000 Elk we supposedly have.

 

[Pre64]

You listening fish and game?? You are losing credibility. Guess if they admit the truth they will lose ALL the out of staters. But, you might get some more support.

 

[bowhunteridaho208]

Wolves are the problem, I hunted hard all archery season and saw about 25 elk in a month. I had a big bull bugling at me and he shut up the instant the wolves started howling too. To top things off I was in a big basin hunting and had 4 wolves on all 4 ridgelines surrounding me. The wolves are out of controll, they are dogs and dogs will breed with other dogs regardless if they are the alpha or not. The fish and game know of 800 wolves and say there are only so many breeding pairs, that is crap. Get two dogs in heat and see what they do, the whole neighborhood is there. I think every state needs to start managing their state and the Feds should stay away. If not then the same thing will happen as the first time the wolves went exstinct. Just my thoughts, but I will be hunting Utah and saving my money on Idaho tags starting next year.

 

[freebird63]

I thought wolves were vegitarians?? they ate berries, grass and pine nuts??

 

[NotNew]

Before the wolves elk could be found fairly readily in country that was not that rough to hunt. Now they are found in the nastiest hell holes.

Having found a group of elk pre wolves if you hunted them carefully and did not run them out of the country you could work on them for a couple day, predict where they would come out mornings and evenings.
Now the wolves keep them moving, I don't know how the elk gain any weight. The wolves push until the elk find a nasty enough piece of country to hole up in for a couple days, then the wolves will push them out of there as well.

Every time I go out I see wolf tracks, even on the Boise front right out side of town during the winter.
The wolves follow the animals to winter range and it is a supermarket for them.

Add this to the pressure from the surplus of cougars and bears and it is amazing there are as many elk as there are.

 

[WASHMULEYHUNTER]

I got a solution instead of whining about it SSS.

 

[hornetcreek]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for getting rid of these wolves, but I just love it when out of staters, or anyone for that matter publicly advocate breaking fish and game laws. Hope your not hunting here this year.