Wildhorse Native? New thought?

[elks96]

So just had an interesting round with a feral invasive horse lover. Claiming that horses have to be native. I asked her what would have been the method used in the natural system to keep horses populations in check? What is there natural predator that would have hunted them enough to prevent over population?

I further asked, why there were not tons of horses like the other native wildlife? Millions of bison, deer, elk, etc. given the lack of predators that specialize in killing feral horses, wouldn’t there have been tens of thousands of horses? Maybe hundreds of thousands if not millions?

She had no answers, she could not explain why there would not have been massive herds of horses prior to the staining, she couldn’t explain why there is a huge gap in evidence between prehistoric fossils and the arrival of the spraining.

I feel it is a reasonable and often over looked part of the argument.

 

[Homer]

what is a "staining" and a "spraining"?

 

[roadrunner]

There's a lot missing from the fossil record that can 't explain the bridge between then and now.

It's all made up assumptions...

 

[Bluehair]

Climate change killed them……maybe Cowboys and Indians……..maybe woofs.

I don’t think it matters much outside of a friendly argument.

 

[HikeHunt61]

I guess I'm unclear on what the friendly argument was about. Was it that they aren't feral because they were once a native species many millennia ago and then reintroduced by Europeans?

If so, it's a friendly argument indeed. Normally, species are intentionally reintroduced to areas where the evil white man removed them intentionally or unintentionally. In this case, they were unintentionally reintroduced long after some natural phenomenon extinguished the creatures all those millions of years ago.

As for population control, one could counter there are "apex" species with no natural enemies- such as elephants. Other forces in the natural world control their populations.

Nonetheless, it seems to me that wild horses are an invasive species by most conventional definitions. Just a friendly argument of course

 

[S-3 Ranch]

lol
lots of invasive species are fun to hunt, like ibex in New Mexico, and aoudad in Texas
but aoudad are in competition with desert bighorn in Texas
so are feral donkeys and hogs
they should be controlled ,horses are a tough one to control for ovio reasons

 

[Homer]

lol
lots of invasive species are fun to hunt, like ibex in New Mexico, and aoudad in Texas
but aoudad are in competition with desert bighorn in Texas
so are feral donkeys and hogs
they should be controlled ,horses are a tough one to control for ovio reasons

what ovio reasons??.....like unrealistic human emotions???

 

[SanJuan]

I'm skeptical of this article but thought it pertained to the discussion.

Yes world, there were horses in Native culture before the settlers came

Yvette Running Horse Collin’s recent dissertation may have rewritten every natural history book on the shelf. A Lakota/Nakota/Cheyenne scholar, Collin worked

indiancountrytoday.com

 

[S-3 Ranch]

what ovio reasons??.....like unrealistic human emotions???

Yep, emotional, “ you to can symbolically Sponcer a horse , dog , walrus, seal polar bear “
that crude is designed to evoke a emotional responce , “” mommies they shoot animales “

 

[elks96]

Sorry the misspelled word that makes no sense was Spanish. Since I was not using a capital letter at front it autocorrected.

 

[elks96]

I'm skeptical of this article but thought it pertained to the discussion.

Yes world, there were horses in Native culture before the settlers came

Yvette Running Horse Collin’s recent dissertation may have rewritten every natural history book on the shelf. A Lakota/Nakota/Cheyenne scholar, Collin worked

indiancountrytoday.com

Yeah that article refer to a study that almost no one in the science community would back. She is an anthropologist not a paleontologist. Which makes a lot of her work sketchy at best.

I am still waiting for proof. If you read more about the lady and her background. She is definitely bias on the subject.

 

[Homer]

Yeah that article refer to a study that almost no one in the science community would back. She is an anthropologist not a paleontologist. Which makes a lot of her work sketchy at best.

I am still waiting for proof. If you read more about the lady and her background. She is definitely bias on the subject.

she is a leftist....anthropologist

 

[S-3 Ranch]

Yeah that article refer to a study that almost no one in the science community would back. She is an anthropologist not a paleontologist. Which makes a lot of her work sketchy at best.

I am still waiting for proof. If you read more about the lady and her background. She is definitely bias on the subject.

Native Americans had available camels, horses and donkeys came in the 15th century

Old World camels in a modern world – a balancing act between conservation and genetic improvement

Old World camels have served humans in cross-continental caravans, transporting people and goods, connecting different cultures and providing milk, meat, wool and draught since their domestication ar...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

 

[Bluehair]

Native Americans had available camels, horses and donkeys came in the 15th century

Old World camels in a modern world – a balancing act between conservation and genetic improvement

Old World camels have served humans in cross-continental caravans, transporting people and goods, connecting different cultures and providing milk, meat, wool and draught since their domestication ar...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

View attachment 67340

Huh? I read the linked article……it doesn’t mention use of camels by Native Americans. Nor does it claim a fossil record in North America. Did I just miss it?

And why did a state owned oil company develop that graphic?

 

[Homer]

Huh? I read the linked article……it doesn’t mention use of camels by Native Americans. Nor does it claim a fossil record in North America. Did I just miss it?

And why did a state owned oil company develop that graphic?

he said they were available....never said they used them

 

[HikeHunt61]

he said they were available....never said they used them

3 Million years ago, unless I missed something. Don't think there were camels in NAm in 15th century.

 

[Bluehair]

he said they were available....never said they used them

So they were available to Indians……..if they went to another continent.

 

[Homer]

yes....there was an ice bridge on cold years...wtf?

 

[roadrunner]

3 Million years ago, unless I missed something. Don't think there were camels in NAm in 15th century.

Yes, that is what the article states. No where....does it even say they were avaliable because....they weren't....

 

[Blank]

Sagebrush Democrats! Feral, and living off the government for free. Sad.

 

[Homer]

Yes, the article does mention that. No where does it even say they were avaliable because they weren't.

Had someone above actually read the article....he wouldn't have commented they were even avaliable.....

lol...I did not even click the link....

 

[Homer]

but....the camel population was pretty close to the horse population in the 1500's.....

 

[Bluehair]

Sagebrush Democrats! Feral, and living off the government for free. Sad.

Sure…we can add our woofs to that list.