Why waste your time?

R

rifle666

Guest
I will start by saying I don't come here much, for one reason. There are two camps The SFW and the rest. To much uneducated fighting and out right lies. Every post turns into a fight. Even the ones that start out on a good topic. it all turns to crap.

**My opinion ** I believe the SFW has the best idea in town.

1. No one else has the desire to do anything about the wildlife problems we are facing.
2. The Fish and Game have Run the Wild life resource into the ground. They have had 100 years to get it right. and failed.
3. The SFW is made up of mostly volunteers who don't receive ANY compensation. It is a group of people who are determined to make a difference. And I am Proud to support that.
4. who does everyone turn to when they need something done and done fast? From feeding deer ,Elk and Turkeys in the snow, to Buying equipment to restore habitat. The SFW.

Now you anti SFW guys fight and whine about not opening the Books. When was the last time the DWR had full disclosure? How many millions of tag dollars have gone to trucks and 4-wheelers and like items over the years? Everything but habitat.

You claim you hate the SFW and all it stands for.
Yet your 1st in line at the expo, dieing to draw a tag that you don't approve of.

I urge all of you who hate the SFW to draw up a plan, Come up with something better. Then spend you time and money to implement it. Then face the Judgment of the copy and paste cowboys who don't do anything except try to bring everyone else down.

So I ask, why waste your time fighting about it?
Join, Don't Join who cares? The SFW will still move forward with or without your support.
But don't bash them here and kiss their butts at the expo. get off the fence and do something positive.

Let it begin.
 
+1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111



Outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man.
 
"Uneducated fighting and out right lies". 30incher knows all about that.

Yea, I hate when UDWR officers drive around in trucks looking for Utard poachers, they should be walking. How dare they waste money on such things as trucks.

You want to talk about lies. I live in Idaho where we are hunting wolves this year, if SFW/BGF had their way we would not be. So F@#! SFW and BGF.

BTW, in your state the Wildlife Board makes all the rules and regulations, so if you want to blame someone for running your wildlife into the ground, blame them. The same Wildlife Board who is stacked with SFW puppets.

You should go back to not posting because you don't know WTF you're talking about.
 
Well it took a month but now a 4th & 5th SFW lovers ihave emerged. My only question is why none of them have offered up an explanation for the Arizona midnight John Wayne Gacy tag rape, much less the Corey Rossi resignation. We'd even be willing to settle for a wild a$$ guess at any scenario which would justify what played out. I just don't hear any. Why am I not surprised?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-12 AT 09:44PM (MST)[p]Let me guess don let you set at the expo and hand out $.F.W. stickers with birdman? Now you think your real tight with him! So start diggin holes !




hornkiller.jpg
 
>
>
>
>I urge all of you who
>hate the SFW to draw
>up a plan, Come up
>with something better..
>
>Let it begin.


We did, and we have...although there is no "hate" involved.

And I do agree with you on the point of bickering, it does no one any good to fight amongst ourselves as sometimes happens. When it comes down to it, we all believe in our heritage and its future. It just getting down that road together that has more than a few bumps along the way.


www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
 
Here's the deal, everybody is passionate about hunting.

If the UDWR did their job, SFW wouldn't exist.

If the wolf lovers hadn't put wolves in Yellowstone, BGF wouldn't exist.

Why is it SFW's responsibility to fix everything?

Somewhere along the line people started screwing things up, and someone started a group to try and fix the screw up.

Is everything fixed. Hell no. Is it better? Hell yes.

Love or hate Don Peay and SFW, we better be thankful for the good they have done.

Does all the money get used for wildlife? No. Are the big wigs of SFW paid. Yes.

Name one group that receives donated money that is 100% free of scrutiny. There are none.

I don't think that all the money that SFW is generating is used for wildlife, there are too many stains like Alaska, Arizona etc....to believe that some shady sh!t isn't going down. But they are the best game in town and doing by far more for the protection of hunting and wildlife than any other group in the country. Like it or not it's fact.

Guys b!tch about the expo tags and "their" stolen hunt. Every guy that complains always says "they" were robbed of a hunt, "they" got screwed out of a tag. That's the biggest problem I see, hunters aren't a team anymore, it's all about me, me, me. What is SFW going to do for ME? WTF are you doing for hunting rights and wildlife? Sitting in front of your computer and b!tching? That's effective.

If you don't like SFW, go start your own organization, then see what happens when millions of dollars start rolling in. See what you do with it.

There's truth on both sides.

It all ends with what are YOU DOING to help?

You want to b!tch about your money being misused, look no further than the government, you have tens of thousands of dollars yearly TAKEN from your salary to fund the government with zero accountability. You voluntarily spend $100 to the SFW yearly with the hopes of helping. And then you want to yell and scream at fellow hunters? Judast Priest!
 
I won't comment on anything in AZ, I have no idea what happened. I will tell you this, i won't get my information here!

And yes I spent my weekend at the expo, not for fame or glory.
I was there to help the thousands of grateful hunters put in for tags that WE are Lucky to have a chance at. And Every one I helped thanked me and went on their way.

Stillhunterman,
" We did, and we have...although there is no "hate" involved."

I guess I have not seen this new group. who are they and what do they do?

Grizz, I have had one LE tag in my life. 2008 Book cliffs archery 7 points.
 
Yet another well informed SFWer who won't comment on AZ because he has no idea what happened, but yet knows all the good that SFW does. Do you know what happened in Alaska? Do you know about the Simpson-Tester rider? Do you know why Wyoming is not hunting wolves? Do you know how members of your Wildlife Board are chosen? Do you know about the Stream Access bill that SFW supported to shut people like you out of public water? But hey, atleast you know all the good things they want you to know about.

Utahans and SFW remind me of this statement: "If rape is inevitable, you might as well sit back and enjoy it". ~ Bobby Knight.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-12 AT 11:05PM (MST)[p]Shotgun Your hatred is sad.

I do know a few things about the topics you brought up. It is not my place to comment. I was not there.

You assume a lot, and blame the SFW on all your assumptions. That is fine, it just makes you look foolish.

Did you put in for Expo tags?
 
"you look foolish". Says the guy who was whining about the DWR spending money on such silly things as trucks.

Did I put in for Expo tags? I didn't even go to Expo.
 
I bet Don and his bendover boys are praying that we will all just give up and let SFW continue to use money from hunters to steal their own animals and corrupt their G&F departments. I remember the USO deal here and you can bet Taulman was ground up meat after that one. The recent rape attempt here will be forgotten when there is no SFW in any state. Thanks for waking up the sleeping dogs. You paid shills might want to give up blowing your lies all over the websites.
 
Shotgun ,
I have asked you a simple, direct question two times now. Here is the 3rd time.

Did you apply for Expo tags, this year or any year?
 
rifle66---Why do you keep asking that question when the guy told you he doesn't even go to the Expo? It's my understanding you have to actually go there in person to validate and have a chance in the raffles! Is that not correct?
 
Top gun
Different Question, thanks for reading.
And No, technically, you do not have to go into the expo to put in. you have to validate out side the expo.

I guess Shotgun is against Hunts for heroes/ wounded veterans too.
and hunts for kids with disabilities.
 
"And yes I spent my weekend at the expo, not for fame or glory.
I was there to help the thousands of grateful hunters put in for tags that WE are Lucky to have a chance at. And Every one I helped thanked me and went on their way."

Ya they thanked you because they were too stupid to look at the big picture, that they themselves are nonresidents in 49 states, and there will ultimately be repercussions for them to pay down the road for SFW's stealing of the additional 200 nonresident premium tags.......Like neighboring states stealing Utard's tags. But hey Don's a master at playing to individual greed. He'll likely play to this angle during his next rape attempt in Arizona, if he doesn't get strung up while delivering his morphed raffle bill to Weiers.
 
Does anybody know what the actual turnout was this year at the expo,compared to years past?

From what I've heard it was very low. Maybe people are starting to listen. Did Don pull everybody "in the circle" aside and "ask" you to start another donation drive?

Two posts in a row stating SFW is great!
 
IMHO SFW would go down the drink in one year IF guys would just boycott the EXPO next year and not buy tickets. If there is no money coming in to SFW from thoses raffles, that one big fund raiser they have will be gone in short order because just the auction tags won't be enough to keep it going!
 
Good point Gun but were stuck between a rock and hardplace. Shoot if peta was whoring out the tags like SFW people would purchase them. Then you've got guys like rifle and 30 inch muley thinking 90 percent of the $ generated at the expo is going back on the ground. wrong!! These tags have ZERO acountabilty! SFW is NOT down there voluntering there gettting paid. I have a very talented friend in the outdoor buisness who started to drink the sfw coolaid in some emails to me. Well I bump into him at the show and he's got a SFW badge on?? After a frank conversation about wildlife we went on our way. I guess everybody wants to get paid??
 
"Shoot if peta was whoring out the tags like SFW people would purchase them."

Haha, It's really pathetic that this statement is 100% true. And it provides some sad insight on how many folks are either just plain ignorant or simply were not raised with strong morals. They just look out for themselves apparently, and line up like lemmings. It also tells you how bad people are at math, because if they bothered to check their odds, they'd be a lot better off dumping all that cash in Idaho for one shot at a sheep or moose tag, even with the nonrefundable license, if they really like gambling that much.
 
I suspest that all the banter on this site will do little to temper the tempest.
Everyone's mind is already make up.
Everyone thinks they have all the answers.
Everyone want to blame the other guy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, "you can't win an arguement with an ex-girlfriend".

If any of you guys come on the site with thin skin then just plan on being hurt because most of the negative dudes hide behind their computer throwing out insults and do little to benefit wildlife and hunting.

stillmanhunter, I appreciate you level-headed posts. We don't agree on everything but yours is a sane voice in the fray.

Zeke
 
TWO OF MY HUNTING PARTY (BUDS) ATTENDED THE EXPO, THEY THOUGHT I WAS A SHELL OF WHAT IT WAS ON THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS. THEY WONT GO BACK OR SO THEY SAY !!!!........................YD.
 
I love the hunts with wounded warriors. I loved the hunt that Byron took a disabled girl from Vernal( I believe) that was on KSL outdoors a few months back. I think its great. ITS ALSO GREAT PR, and thats why we all know about it. Why don't we know about the other things guys want, mainly where the money goes, not percentages, not "clean audits", just simple straight forward accounting. "We took in $1 million at the expo. $351,000 went for the venue, $249,000 went for the displays, etc, etc." A guy like me would then get to look at the financials and see EXACTLY how much was spent on each project, and who knows, I might be so impressed I send them some cash(HIGHLY DOUBTFUL).

As for the "the DWR doesn't do it", WTF??? If my kid steals a candy bar at the store, and after he is caught gives me the "well johnny does it too" excuse I would kick his azz twice. If the best you can do is compare your organization and its financials to the DWR, just how totally inept are you? I mean how many times do we read from the SFW cool-aid crew that "if the DWR was doing there job there wouldn't be a need for SFW", then when they are cornered they compare themselves to the DWR? So SFW is just as corrupt, just as inept, just as useless, just as clueless as the DWR? Thats the SFW argument?

Lets be completely honest. SFW was INITIALLY started to supplement the DWR and bring a outside group to help promote the individual hunters concerns. Then Don started hanging out with politians, and became one. The SFW that exists today has NOTHING in common with its beginings. SFW, because of public outcry, and the OBAMA DEPRESSION, are short in funds and now suddenly "need your ideas", of course your ideas need to have some zeros behind it or it is useless.

I have watched my unit, the Manti, get sacraficed by SFW, MDF and their ilk, in order to raise money for the Henries and Pahvant. SFW is for SFW, and their money men hunt the Henries and Pahvant so thats where they focus. As for units like the Manti, well us peasants can have it, AFTER every mature bull is sold for profit.

By the way, do a search for wolves in Utah, then ask yourself what is it that Don Peay did to stop wolves in utah OTHER than use the sentence "stop wolves in Utah" in his fundraising.



When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
666,

When I say I didn't go to the Expo, that means I didn't go to the Expo. I didn't go in the lobby of the Expo, I wasn't in SLC during the Expo and as a matter of fact, I wasn't even in Utah during the Expo. So, what's your point? You're obviously trying to make one.
 
Rifle,

If you don't like all the fighting, don't stir the pot.

You make some great points, all of which have been brought up dozens of other times by other avid trophy hunters.

Trophy hunters view SFW as a gift, general hunters view it as a trojan horse. Both sides have been adequately represented on a number of posts as you know.

So why waste your time and our time? Do you know how to bridge the divide.
 
Bottom line - If DWR was doing their job (keeping hunters pretty close to happy) then there would be no need for SFW. DWR is to be totally accountable for the mess. You talk about the clowns running the show at SFW....looks like quite a few jesters are rocking it at the DWR.
The DWR should be managing the herds for their constituents - we the hunters - so why can they not man up, take back which is theirs (ours) and kick SFW to the curb?
Proper management of the resource will yield the finances needed to keep things afloat.
 
Shotgun.
If you have never been to the expo, and never Put in for an expo tag. My hats off to you, You have made a decision and live by it.

Most the guys Bash it here hidden from public view, and stand in line with everyone else hoping to win a tag. it's funny how some people get brave on the computer.
 
But I thought that buying chances at the tags created money for SFW that created wildlife nirvana. If you don't buy a chance at a tag aren't you against wildlife?


When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
Rifle,

You need to get off your expo kick. Maybe your circle attends the Expo often. I've never been there. I can't think of one friend that attends. Maybe they have been, and never really discussed it. How heavily attended is this thing anyway? Is there more than 5% of big game hunters attending?

The DWR should auction their tags directly off of their own website. The Expo would more appropriately be used for promoting and auctioning CWMU hunts. SFW would have done well to hold their golden position and leave the general hunts alone. They have fought hard to cut general tags, general season dates, restrict areas, and to increase fees. You can call us cry babies and everything else you want, but the reality is many of us believe SFW has done far more harm than good. Go ahead sign up with them. Pay their fees. Volunteer your time. Attend the expo. Use your freedoms for what you will. It's the American way.

I personally don't like what they have done for general hunter opportunity; therefore, I don't really care how much grass they have planted. They pretend to represent ALL hunters, but they only represent TROPHY hunters and stab the rest of us in the back. So I am going to complain. I WILL MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THEY DO NOT REPRESENT ME and I will look for other organizations that reflect my ideals. That too is the American way.
 
With the state draws on everyone's mind, I have a question for the Minority.

why does Utah State DWR charge 10 bucks per species, per hunter. Just to put in for a draw that is 100% computer generated.

Yet the Expo draw is 5 bucks for the same computer generated draw.

between sportsman permit draws and turkey,bear, lion, and big game spend 200.00 a year just for less than 20 chances to draw a tag.
NOW THAT IS CRIMINAL!!

at the expo I spent 100 bucks for 20 chances at good tags.

When are you going to DEMAND the DWR open their books? where does this cash go? that alone is millions in unaccounted, free profit.

Explain.
 
>Shotgun ,
>I have asked you a simple,
>direct question two times now.
>Here is the 3rd time.
>
>
>Did you apply for Expo tags,
>this year or any year?
>


LMAO He said he did not even go to the expo!!! Last I checked you had to go to validate your tag???
 
>IMHO SFW would go down the
>drink in one year IF
>guys would just boycott the
>EXPO next year and not
>buy tickets. If there
>is no money coming in
>to SFW from thoses raffles,
>that one big fund raiser
>they have will be gone
>in short order because just
>the auction tags won't be
>enough to keep it going!
>


Just what I did this year!!!! +1
 
why does Utah State DWR charge 10 bucks per species, per hunter. Just to put in for a draw that is 100% computer generated.

Yet the Expo draw is 5 bucks for the same computer generated draw.



Is because the DWR has employess to pay? You said sfw has many people who work for nothing right?

These would be employees who both sworn and non sworn. I am sure the overhead is a lot larger for the state of Utah as opposed to what Don has in his yearly tag grab?

This thread and anyone who sticks up for the sfw makes me LAUGH MY AZZ OFF!!!!
 
R666 Please explain and what are your thoughts on thi post???





Seems pretty easy to connect the dots of corruption in this case.
AK Fish and Game Director, Corey Rossi, a founding board member of AK SFW got busted for some illegal bear hunting with his buddies from Utah. Evidently him being a guide and Director of AK F&G makes him above the law, in his mind.

I remember SFW bragging that they got Rossi appointed as director as "A friend of Sarah." Sent the former director to a remote outpost, for no apparent reason, other than he wasn't one of their own.

Link provided here about the charges against Director Rossi - http://www.adn.com/2012/01/12/2260922/wildlife-chief-charged-with-hunt.html

Did a quick search of "Corey Rossi Don Peay SFW" and came up with this link below. Lots of links come up, but here is the first that Google gave.

http://www.themudflats.net/2011/11/16/a-disaster-for-alaskas-department-of-fish-and-game/

The connection doesn't stop there. Mr. Rossi has been handing out Governors tags to his SFW buddies in Utah. The link below shows where 4 of the 11 AK governor's permits got handed over to SFW/SFH to be auctioned in UT next month.

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/license/huntlicense/pdfs/2012_winners.pdf

And we always know that when the storm starts about SFW cronies, the "I don't know that guy" story will come forward. So, since we know there will be the same denial story here, as there was when SFW got caught trying to kill the MT and ID wolf seasons, I provide the link below to show that Mr. Rossi was thought of as one the political plants of SFW. Just read the column on the left of the page.

http://mudflats.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/don-peay-_-rossi-appointment.pdf

For those who don't want to download Mr. Peay's column at the link above, the part I refer to is provided here:

"Many of our members are politically positioned to help SFW in the fight. Robert Espinosa, a founder of SFW New Mexico, was recently appointed by Governor Martinez to the New Mexico Game and Fish Commission. Corey Rossi, a founding member of SFW Alaska was appointed Game and Fish Director by Governor Parnell."

And people wonder why the rest of the world is trying to clean the landscape of the pox that has been brought to us by SFW.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-29-12 AT 00:25AM (MST)[p]I have a plan, what if the state resource agencies got so strapped for cash that they started selling off state and federal land (with profit sharing with other states on fed land) and all tags were given to landowners. Now not only do have to buy a tag & license, but likely to have to pay a trespass fee. it's a win for the locals, a win for the NRs bc of more tags being attainable and DWR/etc don't have to deal with all the applications and refund paperwork....could also make it a requirement for LOs to receive tags: ages, weights and scores to be documented from deer as a free data collection policy. This would get the deer herds moving in the right direction and give everyone equal opportunities at tags.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-29-12 AT 00:20AM (MST)[p]rugar
you posted twice! so are you laughing your AZZ off at yourself?

by posted I mean Cut and pasted a bunch of stuff you heard about.

if they are indeed guilty, they will be held accountable.
I'm sure you knew that already right. Innocent till proven guilty ring a bell? anyone?

Cut and paste some more groundbreaking facts!

and oh, by the way, doesn't our millions of TAX dollars PAY DWR WAGES!!??!!?!?!?!i mean how much money do they really need to run our deer herds to extinction?!?!?!

OPEN THE STATE BOOKS!!!
 
rifle666 Good luck to you and your fight. BTW those are seperate posts, so yes I realize that. Great observation skills, don is lucky to have you with him.

As far as your tax question, really? Come on you are smarter than that right?

Man I have wasted enough time on this. I am out!!!
 
>With the state draws on everyone's
>mind, I have a question
>for the Minority.
>
>why does Utah State DWR charge
>10 bucks per species, per
>hunter. Just to put in
>for a draw that is
>100% computer generated.
>
>Yet the Expo draw is 5
>bucks for the same computer
>generated draw.
>
>between sportsman permit draws and turkey,bear,
>lion, and big game spend
>200.00 a year just for
>less than 20 chances to
>draw a tag.
>NOW THAT IS CRIMINAL!!
>
>at the expo I spent 100
>bucks for 20 chances at
>good tags.
>
>When are you going to DEMAND
>the DWR open their
>books? where does this cash
>go? that alone is millions
>in unaccounted, free profit.
>
>Explain.



Here, I'll open 2010.


Revenue and Expenses from Application Fees - 2010

Applications - Annual # 396,310

Application Fee Revenue $3,963,100.00____ % of Costs



.

Licensing Staff - Draw Group $281,429.20____ 8.9%

Credit Card Discount Fees $399,251.00 ____ 12.7%

SCI Contract - Fallon $1,108,800.51 ________ 35.1%

Postage Costs - Reimbursed $289,000.00 ____ 9.2%

Front Counters-50% of their time $433,508.00 ____ 13.7%

Proclamations $97,300.00 ___________ 3.1%

Paper for Draw permits $16,428.57 ________ 0.5%

Outreach Staff - 10% of their time $47,262.00 ____ 1.5%

RAC and Board Costs $92,534.00 _______ 2.9%

Wildlife/Aquatics Section Prep $165,170.40 ____ 5.2%

Proclamation Review Chair $73,794.00 ____ 2.3%

Overhead 18% of Direct Labor $150,478.78 ____ 4.8%


Total - $3,154,956.46 _______________________ 100%


Any questions?


http://unitedwildlifecooperative.org
 
>With the state draws on everyone's
>mind, I have a question
>for the Minority.
>
>why does Utah State DWR charge
>10 bucks per species, per
>hunter. Just to put in
>for a draw that is
>100% computer generated.
>
>Yet the Expo draw is 5
>bucks for the same computer
>generated draw.
>
>between sportsman permit draws and turkey,bear,
>lion, and big game spend
>200.00 a year just for
>less than 20 chances to
>draw a tag.
>NOW THAT IS CRIMINAL!!
>
>at the expo I spent 100
>bucks for 20 chances at
>good tags.
>
>When are you going to DEMAND
>the DWR open their
>books? where does this cash
>go? that alone is millions
>in unaccounted, free profit.
>
>Explain.



Here, I'll open 2010.


Revenue and Expenses from Application Fees - 2010

Applications - Annual # 396,310

Application Fee Revenue $3,963,100.00____ % of Costs



.

Licensing Staff - Draw Group $281,429.20____ 8.9%

Credit Card Discount Fees $399,251.00 ____ 12.7%

SCI Contract - Fallon $1,108,800.51 ________ 35.1%

Postage Costs - Reimbursed $289,000.00 ____ 9.2%

Front Counters-50% of their time $433,508.00 ____ 13.7%

Proclamations $97,300.00 ___________ 3.1%

Paper for Draw permits $16,428.57 ________ 0.5%

Outreach Staff - 10% of their time $47,262.00 ____ 1.5%

RAC and Board Costs $92,534.00 _______ 2.9%

Wildlife/Aquatics Section Prep $165,170.40 ____ 5.2%

Proclamation Review Chair $73,794.00 ____ 2.3%

Overhead 18% of Direct Labor $150,478.78 ____ 4.8%


Total - $3,154,956.46 _______________________ 100%


Any questions?


http://unitedwildlifecooperative.org
 
Rugar.....bye
Tree, yes.
That "report" is it official? If so it sure looks neat and clean. Imagine. A agency of the U.S government with 100 percent accuracy and disclosure. That would be the First time ever.
 

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